View Full Version : Murali considering a "No Australia" clause
ViperV10
17 Feb 2004, 07:10
Murali is considering never touring australia again, old new I would have thought, but these guys seem to think it is worthy of current news.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/040216/2/nqcb.html
The Aus crowd has always been hostile to anyone, no use sooking about it, we will taunt even more. It is part of our culture...our way of unnerving the opposition. If you can't deal with it then stay out of the country.
My 2c worth
Duffman95
17 Feb 2004, 07:27
Not only is he a chucker, but a ******** as well
Ah well, he can stay in his box playing minnows on massively doctored pitches
Jars458
17 Feb 2004, 08:00
That will just show how mentally weak he is
He can't possibly no know that his action is very suspect and that opposition crowds are going to get stuck in
Surely his best response would be to come here and take lots of wickets.
If he was confident of his action he would have no dramas touring here. The man is a soft, weak, cry-baby chucker. It is an absolute travesty that he will soon be the leading wicket taker in the history of the game.
Unfortunately, the financial ramifications of removing a sub continental player from the game due to an illegal action has and will prevent the governing bodies of ever investigating him further.
Runknisse
17 Feb 2004, 08:13
It's a pity he's let this get to him.
I really enjoy watching him bowl and am looking forward to seeing him in the test series coming up in Sri Lanka.
NICK THE PIE MAN
17 Feb 2004, 08:16
Pussy.
Originally posted by Runknisse
I really enjoy watching him bowl and am looking forward to seeing him in the test series coming up in Sri Lanka.
Enjoy watching him bowl? I would too, if he didn't chuck.
PrideOf
17 Feb 2004, 08:23
Does anyone know if Murali cops a bake from crowds around the world or just here?
im pretty sure the english fans turned on him just recently.
PrideOf
17 Feb 2004, 08:29
So what's he going to do, just bowl in Sri Lanka?
If so, it's going to cut his ability to set a huge wicket-taking record in half.
So there is an upside to his dummy spit.
EagleBlue
17 Feb 2004, 08:45
Weak bastard :mad: Still what do you expect from these sooks, what with their refusal to play under a certain umpire, walkoffs, refusing to shake hands with the opposition, and accusations that the bully-boy Aussies use "dirty words" towards them.
Funky Colin
17 Feb 2004, 08:49
As someone who also has a bent elbow (as a result of a dislocation during childhood) I can sympathise with Murali's situation. You guys are forgetting one simple fact - his action has been cleared by a panel of experts and he's permitted to bowl in this manner, and therefore all his wickets are legally taken.
The amount of xenophobic, one-eyed, venomous drivel that has appeared in this thread is a disgrace.
Don't excuse the Australian fans' behaviour by pointing out that the Brits do it as well. If the Barmy Army is your idea of a yardstick in appropriate crowd behaviour, then jump into your divvy van now and go home.
Oh, and another thing - it's Australian to give everyone a fair go and to applaud those who achieve greatness from humble beginnings (such as growing up in the backblocks of Galle and living off $5 a day until you were 18 years old).
Runknisse
17 Feb 2004, 08:53
I don't think he's a chucka. Simple.
superstar
17 Feb 2004, 09:06
Chucker or not, he's a coward.
He doesn't deserve to be test crickets leading wicket taker if he continues to run scared of the toughest challenge in the sport - playing Australia on our soil.
Coward.
Originally posted by Funky Colin
As someone who also has a bent elbow (as a result of a dislocation during childhood) I can sympathise with Murali's situation. You guys are forgetting one simple fact - his action has been cleared by a panel of experts and he's permitted to bowl in this manner, and therefore all his wickets are legally taken.
The same panel of experts that booted out Micheal Holding becuase he had the opinion that Murali chucked? Forgive me if im a little sceptical of any findings from that mob.
The amount of xenophobic, one-eyed, venomous drivel that has appeared in this thread is a disgrace.
There called opinions mate. Just because you may not agree with them doesn't make them wrong.
Don't excuse the Australian fans' behaviour by pointing out that the Brits do it as well. If the Barmy Army is your idea of a yardstick in appropriate crowd behaviour, then jump into your divvy van now and go home.
Who used it as an excuse? Im pretty sure i posted about the english fans in a response to a post which asked do other countries bag murali.
Oh, and another thing - it's Australian to give everyone a fair go and to applaud those who achieve greatness from humble beginnings (such as growing up in the backblocks of Galle and living off $5 a day until you were 18 years old).
:rolleyes: ....so the fact he has had a tough life should preclude him from any type of critisism. I applaude great bowlers who bowl within the laws and spirit of the game. Murali maybe a ripper bloke but i find it hard to warm to a cricketer how breaks the rules to take wickets.
Cooldude
17 Feb 2004, 09:11
Originally posted by Funky Colin
As someone who also has a bent elbow (as a result of a dislocation during childhood) I can sympathise with Murali's situation. You guys are forgetting one simple fact - his action has been cleared by a panel of experts and he's permitted to bowl in this manner, and therefore all his wickets are legally taken.
His action was examined almost a decade ago, if you've been cleared once, it doesn't mean you won't chuck in the future, and a bent elbow has nothing to do with it, if the elbow is bent by 6 degrees, keep it bent there, not bending from a 30 degree bent to a 6 degree bent, which is throwing.
Originally posted by Funky Colin
The amount of xenophobic, one-eyed, venomous drivel that has appeared in this thread is a disgrace.
Your pure ignorance of Murali's action is also a disgrace, just like Murali himself is a disgrace to cricket.
Originally posted by Funky Colin
Don't excuse the Australian fans' behaviour by pointing out that the Brits do it as well. If the Barmy Army is your idea of a yardstick in appropriate crowd behaviour, then jump into your divvy van now and go home.
The crowd's only telling the truth, don't think because some of them are drunken fat yobos, they don't know their cricket, in fact, they know what they're seeing, and what they're seeing is a blatant chucker.
Originally posted by Funky Colin
Oh, and another thing - it's Australian to give everyone a fair go and to applaud those who achieve greatness from humble beginnings (such as growing up in the backblocks of Galle and living off $5 a day until you were 18 years old).
Achieve greatness with an unprecedented advantage of throwing? Which in other words, cheating? Why should we give cheaters a fair go to those who bowl normally to take their wickets?
Murali's background and humble beginnings or his personality has nothing to do with his action, I don't care if he's the nicest bloke ever lived, he is still a blight to cricket with his illegal action
Funky Colin
17 Feb 2004, 09:26
Originally posted by Cooldude
His action was examined almost a decade ago, if you've been cleared once, it doesn't mean you won't chuck in the future, and a bent elbow has nothing to do with it, if the elbow is bent by 6 degrees, keep it bent there, not bending from a 30 degree bent to a 6 degree bent, which is throwing.
Straight from the source article at the start of this thread:
"Despite being cleared by the International Cricket Council on more than one occasion, Murali was heckled and jeered constantly when Sri Lanka played a one-day series in Australia last summer."
It would appear that he's been cleared more than once, and there are regular checks on all bowlers (e.g. Akhtar, Lee, Vasbert Drakes) who have previously been referred by umpires for a review of their actions.
Your pure ignorance of Murali's action is also a disgrace, just like Murali himself is a disgrace to cricket.
No ignorance whatsoever. How do you bowl spin? With an arm that straightens from behind your back? No, you roll, the arm over bent and straighten it at the top of your delivery - Murali can't do this because his arm doesn't lock into a straight position
The crowd's only telling the truth, don't think because some of them are drunken fat yobos, they don't know their cricket, in fact, they know what they're seeing, and what they're seeing is a blatant chucker.
Marvellous logic that - give the man a framed commemorative picture of the Bay 13 crowd the night they asked Warnie to make them stop chucking bottles and cans onto the MCG
Achieve greatness with an unprecedented advantage of throwing? Which in other words, cheating? Why should we give cheaters a fair go to those who bowl normally to take their wickets?
Murali's background and humble beginnings or his personality has nothing to do with his action, I don't care if he's the nicest bloke ever lived, he is still a blight to cricket with his illegal action
It's not cheating - fixing matches is cheating or not admitting a ball bounced before you caught it on a half volley is cheating. Bowling in a manner which has been deemed permissible by the competition in which you play is not.
Fall Out Boy
17 Feb 2004, 09:30
Smart move. Sri Lanka have gotten in their pre-emptive strike in order to make sure Murali gets favourable treatment when he comes here (and make no mistake, he will be here).
Cooldude
17 Feb 2004, 09:31
Originally posted by Funky Colin
It's not cheating - fixing matches is cheating or not admitting a ball bounced before you caught it on a half volley is cheating. Bowling in a manner which has been deemed permissible by the competition in which you play is not.
Let's see... if I passed a drug test 10 years ago, does it mean I would never take any drugs ever again? I was deem permissible to compete in events which I play, but does that mean I'd never cheat?
Bowling in a manner in which you throw like he does, which in the motion of straightening your arm allows you to impart extra spin on the ball, and also allow you to create more angle with your arm to bowl leg breaks and toppies which couldn't be achieved without throwing, is performance enhancing, just like drugs, and that equals cheating.
Funky Colin
17 Feb 2004, 09:41
I accidentally inserted most of my response into my quotation of yours, sorry about that. So here goes again.
You said:
His action was examined almost a decade ago, if you've been cleared once, it doesn't mean you won't chuck in the future, and a bent elbow has nothing to do with it, if the elbow is bent by 6 degrees, keep it bent there, not bending from a 30 degree bent to a 6 degree bent, which is throwing.
I said:
Straight from the source article at the start of this thread:
"Despite being cleared by the International Cricket Council on more than one occasion, Murali was heckled and jeered constantly when Sri Lanka played a one-day series in Australia last summer."
It would appear that he's been cleared more than once, and there are regular checks on all bowlers (e.g. Akhtar, Lee, Vasbert Drakes) who have previously been referred by umpires for a review of their actions.
You said:
Your pure ignorance of Murali's action is also a disgrace, just like Murali himself is a disgrace to cricket.
I said:
No ignorance whatsoever. How do you bowl spin? With an arm that straightens from behind your back? No, you roll, the arm over bent and straighten it at the top of your delivery - Murali can't do this because his arm doesn't lock into a straight position
You said:
The crowd's only telling the truth, don't think because some of them are drunken fat yobos, they don't know their cricket, in fact, they know what they're seeing, and what they're seeing is a blatant chucker.
I said:
Marvellous logic that - give the man a framed commemorative picture of the Bay 13 crowd the night they asked Warnie to make them stop chucking bottles and cans onto the MCG
Hope that answers your questions.
In summary:
He's not a like drug cheat who intentionally takes something externally to assist in his performance, he's regularly analysed, he's got a disability which he has overcome and hasn't used it to his advantage. Fact is, he's a genuine threat to opposing teams and their supporters (will grab onto anything to discredit his performances).
Cooldude
17 Feb 2004, 10:01
Originally posted by Funky Colin
Straight from the source article at the start of this thread:
"Despite being cleared by the International Cricket Council on more than one occasion, Murali was heckled and jeered constantly when Sri Lanka played a one-day series in Australia last summer."
It would appear that he's been cleared more than once, and there are regular checks on all bowlers (e.g. Akhtar, Lee, Vasbert Drakes) who have previously been referred by umpires for a review of their actions.
The first time he's been cleared, it's with him bowling in a net session , he was never reported again in a match by an umpire after that.
Personally, I don't give a crap if he chucks in the nets, but if you get video footage of his bowling in a test match, you'd be surprised how many balls he throws.
As of Lee and Ahktar, they were reported but were also cleared in a nets session. Jermaine Lawson and Shabbir Ahmed didn't get that luxury, their action were judged by the match footage of their bowling action from the match they were reported on.
Originally posted by Funky Colin
No ignorance whatsoever. How do you bowl spin? With an arm that straightens from behind your back? No, you roll, the arm over bent and straighten it at the top of your delivery - Murali can't do this because his arm doesn't lock into a straight position
*Sigh* Not this bent arm argument again, yes, Murali will never be able to completely straighten his arm (like a straight line), his elbow is permanently bent and will lock on 6 degrees bent, but he can still throw by bending it by 40 degrees for a start, and then straighten it to the 6 degree bent maximum that his elbow allows him to, and that is also chucking.
If you ever watch Murali "bowling" his top spinners and leg break, you can clearly see his arm straight from a bigger angle of bent to a smaller angle of bent, but it still straightened, hence it's throwing.
If it's bent, stay bent and on the same angle, Michael Holding said, and he couldn't be more right.
Originally posted by Funky Colin
Marvellous logic that - give the man a framed commemorative picture of the Bay 13 crowd the night they asked Warnie to make them stop chucking bottles and cans onto the MCG
Who cares, Brett Lee's being called no-ball by the Barmy Army as well, if your action is silky clean, then you have nothing to fear. And as professional sportsmen, they gotta be able to cope abuses, not whinging like a cry baby like Murali's doing.
Originally posted by Funky Colin
He's not a like drug cheat who intentionally takes something externally to assist in his performance, he's regularly analysed, he's got a disability which he has overcome and hasn't used it to his advantage. Fact is, he's a genuine threat to opposing teams and their supporters (will grab onto anything to discredit his performances).
ICC is finding new ways of investigating chucking for spin bowlers, why? Because their technology were not suifficent enough to indicate if there are any straightening from Mural's bowling arm, that was the reason why he was cleared in 1996. The fact is, he's got a disability which he has overcome, and IS using it to his advantage.
Genuine cricket lovers would spat at the very sight of Murali's action, why? Because he is a blight and a black mark to cricket, just walk down the streets of Sri Lanka and you'll see kids everywhere "bowling" like Murali and you can see all of them chucking from the naked eye. Is that good for cricket?
You just can watch Murali's action in a test match for 3 hours or so and say there's nothing wrong with that action.
Murali is doing damage to the game that can never be repaired, the integrity of the game and our very principles must be upheld, yet I'm hearing some Australian coaches suggesting that our young bowlers should learn to "bowl" like Murali, it is an absolute disgrace.
Back in the old days, umpires would no-ball bowlers if there's a slightest hint of him throwing it, and that bowler's career would be over. You can say it's harsh on that bowler all you want, but it keeps the game clean. If sacrificing a few bowlers with suspected actions mean that game's integrity can be upheld, then sacrifice them as they wish.
If the result of Darryll Hair no-balling Murali means he's no longer allowed to play, you wouldn't see kids in Sri Lanka chucking in the streets, or all these debate about his action, would you?
They want the suspected bowlers to be given a fair go, but who'd give the game a fair go?
ViperV10
17 Feb 2004, 10:21
I wouldn't be surprised if some company comes out with a brace for the elbow which allows you to bowl without straightening your elbow fully. This IMO is just the sort of thing we wouldn't want, because IMO murali is taking advantage of a flaw in the ICC's laws regarding illegal actions. He is blatantly chucking it, blind freddy could see that.
GOALden Hawk
17 Feb 2004, 10:35
Originally posted by NICK THE PIE MAN
Pussy.
Sometimes the short posts are the best ones.
The issue here isn't where Murali chucks or not (and I think he does). The issue is Murali walking out on his country because he is too much of a COWARD to put up with a bit of heckling from the crowd.
Oh dear, so they are going to yell "No Ball" before each delivery, how terrible. :rolleyes:
It's not a smart move at all - if Murali does tour Australia he is going to cop it even more now than he did last time. He was never going to be no-balled anyway, umps aren't allowed to do that thanks to ICC sweeping away the problem.
It's all about the money. The ICC knows how much cash comes from cricket in the sub-continent, and it also knows that the sub-continental teams have threatened in the past to leave the ICC and start their own brand...
Cooldude
17 Feb 2004, 10:45
Originally posted by Zeke
It's all about the money. The ICC knows how much cash comes from cricket in the sub-continent, and it also knows that the sub-continental teams have threatened in the past to leave the ICC and start their own brand...
Yep, the amount of money generated from the Asia nations buying TV rights from ICC is incredible, ICC makes millions from it every year, and who knows if the Sri Lankans would continue buying if their little Murali's banned...
TigerCraig
17 Feb 2004, 11:18
That's why it was good to hear Bishen Bedi getting stuck into Murali
It's not a matter of "anti-Asianism" - he chucks.
Originally posted by Funky Colin
As someone who also has a bent elbow (as a result of a dislocation during childhood) I can sympathise with Murali's situation. You guys are forgetting one simple fact - his action has been cleared by a panel of experts and he's permitted to bowl in this manner, and therefore all his wickets are legally taken.
The amount of xenophobic, one-eyed, venomous drivel that has appeared in this thread is a disgrace.
Don't excuse the Australian fans' behaviour by pointing out that the Brits do it as well. If the Barmy Army is your idea of a yardstick in appropriate crowd behaviour, then jump into your divvy van now and go home.
Oh, and another thing - it's Australian to give everyone a fair go and to applaud those who achieve greatness from humble beginnings (such as growing up in the backblocks of Galle and living off $5 a day until you were 18 years old). Shoab Akhtar and Brett Lee are all "no-balled" by the crowds here in Australia and they continue to play. Murali is one of the biggest soft cocks going around!! He is a chucker and a cheat and should be thrown out of cricket. I couldn't give a stuff if he never came here again, if he does, I'll fly up there and give it to him twice as much as what he usually cops. ****ing soft ****!!
Originally posted by ViperV10
The Aus crowd has always been hostile to anyone, no use sooking about it, we will taunt even more. It is part of our culture...our way of unnerving the opposition. If you can't deal with it then stay out of the country.
My 2c worth
So if Chuckie doesn't want to play here because of jeering from the crowd,should Stuart MacGill come out and announce he'll never play at the SCG again ?
Chuckie needs to get over it and stop the sooky-sooky-la-la's.
Originally posted by Mickey
Shoab Akhtar and Brett Lee are all "no-balled" by the crowds here in Australia and they continue to play.
and have you ever heard either of them whinge about it ?
NO !!!!!
Everytime Aus play Sri ****a,this same threat comes out by Chuckie.
ViperV10
17 Feb 2004, 11:41
Originally posted by JUBJUB
So if Chuckie doesn't want to play here because of jeering from the crowd,should Stuart MacGill come out and announce he'll never play at the SCG again ?
Chuckie needs to get over it and stop the sooky-sooky-la-la's.
I'll let that go through to the keeper (pun intended) :D
Uhumagoo
17 Feb 2004, 13:28
Originally posted by JUBJUB
and have you ever heard either of them whinge about it ?
NO !!!!!
Everytime Aus play Sri ****a,this same threat comes out by Chuckie.
Your kidding right.. Langer, Gilchrist and half the Aussie cricket fans didnt sook after the Barmy Army 'no-balled' Lee?
I must have been at different match.
Cooldude
17 Feb 2004, 14:36
Originally posted by Uhumagoo
Your kidding right.. Langer, Gilchrist and half the Aussie cricket fans didnt sook after the Barmy Army 'no-balled' Lee?
I must have been at different match.
Lang sooked about it, but he didn't make it a national scandel like Murali has, has he? Lang didn't say he'd never play in Aus again, did he?
The funniest thing Murali's said is he felt that the South African crowd was way better than the Australian crowd, sure, Murali, you didn't have beer cans and oranges thrown at ya like the Aus team coped last time they played a test match in the bull ring...
Murali - a pea-hearted, sooking chucker.
Originally posted by Funky Colin
It's not cheating - fixing matches is cheating or not admitting a ball bounced before you caught it on a half volley is cheating. Bowling in a manner which has been deemed permissible by the competition in which you play is not.
So it's not about whether you break the rules, it's about whether you are caught?
What a weak as **** stance to take.
Did Boonie or Merv ever whinge about being called "fat ****s" by everyone from the Barmy Army down?
No ****ing way known.
Cooldude
17 Feb 2004, 22:19
While Ponting says he hopes Murali tours Aus, he had a veiled shot at Murali's action:
"Back in Australia when he first got called (for throwing) he bowled a few leg spinners after that. He must be able to bowl leggies as well. He's probably just chucking that one in as well. Sorry, putting that one in as well."
Can't imagine him making a mistake like that :)
CatManDo
17 Feb 2004, 22:23
Originally posted by Cooldude
"Back in Australia when he first got called (for throwing) he bowled a few leg spinners after that. He must be able to bowl leggies as well. He's probably just chucking that one in as well. Sorry, putting that one in as well." [/B]
Wouldnt be surprised if he's reprimanded... we simply cant allow anyone to voice an opinion about Murali.
IceTemple
17 Feb 2004, 22:30
btw this is what the barmy army was chanting when Murali was bowling:
"throw, throw, throw the ball,
gently down the seam,
Murali, Murali, Murali, Murali,
chucks it like a dream"
Freo Big Fella
17 Feb 2004, 22:32
Originally posted by ViperV10
Murali is considering never touring australia again, old new I would have thought, but these guys seem to think it is worthy of current news.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/040216/2/nqcb.html
The Aus crowd has always been hostile to anyone, no use sooking about it, we will taunt even more. It is part of our culture...our way of unnerving the opposition. If you can't deal with it then stay out of the country.
My 2c worth
Diddums.:rolleyes:
Cooldude
17 Feb 2004, 22:33
Originally posted by IceTemple
btw this is what the barmy army was chanting when Murali was bowling:
"throw, throw, throw the ball,
gently down the seam,
Murali, Murali, Murali, Murali,
chucks it like a dream"
The second verse:
"Bowl bowl bowl the ball gently through the air
Murali, Murali, Murali, Murali, here comes Darryl Hair.... NO BALL!!! "
Originally posted by pazza
Did Boonie or Merv ever whinge about being called "fat ****s" by everyone from the Barmy Army down?
That fat sack of crap Ranatunga did. And Boonie & Merv might have been fat, but at least they didn't call for a runner just because they were to fat to run.
At the risk of sounding like a racist, I think the Sri Lankans' reputation for being whiny cheats is deserved.
Originally posted by Rodion
At the risk of sounding like a racist, I think the Sri Lankans' reputation for being whiny cheats is deserved.
It is not racist to make reference to a character trait that is shared by a huge cross section of the sub-continental cricket community.
They is cheats.
Minkus_Swan
18 Feb 2004, 08:35
Originally posted by Cooldude
While Ponting says he hopes Murali tours Aus, he had a veiled shot at Murali's action:
"Back in Australia when he first got called (for throwing) he bowled a few leg spinners after that. He must be able to bowl leggies as well. He's probably just chucking that one in as well. Sorry, putting that one in as well."
Can't imagine him making a mistake like that :)
You get the feeling that most international players have this opinion as well (that Murali chucks). But it only seems that the Australian players have been caught out saying anything negative.
Saying that, Ponting shouldn't be fined for that little slip of the tongue, but Murali may be offended. :rolleyes:
Cooldude
18 Feb 2004, 11:20
Here's another quote from Murali:
"[Hussain's sledge] is part of the game. Normally they whinge, no?"
Muttiah Muralitharan prefers English sledging to complaining
pav_is_god
18 Feb 2004, 11:30
Weak, absolutely weak...
And is action, quoting Gilly: "Its diabolical..."
The Spornstar
18 Feb 2004, 11:31
Originally posted by Rodion
At the risk of sounding like a racist, I think the Sri Lankans' reputation for being whiny cheats is deserved.
It's no more racist than other countries labelling the Aussies as bullies is it? Or us having a go at the "whingeing Poms"? Yet because the Sri Lankans have different colour skin many people will believe that what you say IS racist. Ridiculous.
I'd be quite happy for Murali's contract to have a "No Australia" clause, just so long as Australian Cricket could have a "No Murali" clause.
If I want to see Chuckas, I go and watch Polo.
Cooldude
18 Feb 2004, 12:30
Bobby Simpson has spoken out on chuckers in cricket, Simmo, who I think should still be the Aus coach, say there're more chuckers around than there's ever been:
http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,8716935-23212,00.html
Ray Nolan
18 Feb 2004, 12:43
Some of the most ill-informed rubbish I've ever read appears on this thread. Murali bowls with his elbow at its full 32 degree extension - numerous scientific tests have proven this. Tests that were conducted all over the world - even here in Australia. All came to the same conclusion. Yet it seems a bunch of know-alls on Big Footy reckon they know better than the scientists when it comes to the intricacies of Murali's action. If you're going to tag guys who bowl with bent arms as chuckers then Brett Lee & Glenn McGrath should both be on your list. Those guys can at least bend their elbows beyond the angle they have just before the point of release. Murali cannot physically do that unless he dislocates his elbow whilst delivering the ball. As you can see when he bowls his elbow doesn't dislocate. As such it would seem to me that Lee & McGrath are more likely to be chuckers than Murali. The secret to Murali, as I have said here a billion times, is in the amazing flexibility his wrist has. I'm not the only one who has taken the time to notice this either, for instance John Buchannan in todays Courier-Mail
Australian coach John Buchanan wants Muralidaran's action to be part of a wide-ranging study into the game's great and quirky champions in the hope of unlocking their secrets.
Buchanan said the decade-long debate on whether Muralidaran's deformed elbow straightened had masked the real secret to his success, a magnificently strong wrist which is so supple he can touch his right arm when he bends the middle finger on his bowling hand forward.
"The unfortunate thing about Murali is that there is too much focus on the elbow," Buchanan said.
"That has been cleared by the powers that be, whether people like it or not. Let's go beyond all that until somebody wants to re-open it with a new science. He is doing something with his wrist and his fingers that no one else is doing.
"He is virtually a wrist-spinning finger-spinner. So let's go up to his wrist and see what's happening there. Not everyone's going to be able to do it. I would love to be able to have a look at him.
The only way anyone can truly make a judgment on the validity of Murali's action is get in the nets and watch him bowl from a variety of angles, close up. I've been lucky enough to do this, I've also seen for myself the flexibility his wrist has and also seen him demonstrate at close hand how his elbow cannot bend past 32 degrees. You can whinge all you want but the fact is Murali is not a chucker. Remember he was called by two of the worst umpires in living memory (Hair & Emerson) both of whom many opposing teams privately describe as biased (ask the South Africans about Hair and see the response you get) Everywhere else his action has been passed. It's about time we in Australia got real about this issue and give Murali the benefit of the doubt - after all, the proof is all on his side.
Cooldude
18 Feb 2004, 13:09
Originally posted by Ray Nolan
Some of the most ill-informed rubbish I've ever read appears on this thread. Murali bowls with his elbow at its full 32 degree extension - numerous scientific tests have proven this. Tests that were conducted all over the world - even here in Australia. All came to the same conclusion. Yet it seems a bunch of know-alls on Big Footy reckon they know better than the scientists when it comes to the intricacies of Murali's action. If you're going to tag guys who bowl with bent arms as chuckers then Brett Lee & Glenn McGrath should both be on your list. Those guys can at least bend their elbows beyond the angle they have just before the point of release. Murali cannot physically do that unless he dislocates his elbow whilst delivering the ball. As you can see when he bowls his elbow doesn't dislocate. As such it would seem to me that Lee & McGrath are more likely to be chuckers than Murali. The secret to Murali, as I have said here a billion times, is in the amazing flexibility his wrist has. I'm not the only one who has taken the time to notice this either, for instance John Buchannan in todays Courier-Mail
Australian coach John Buchanan wants Muralidaran's action to be part of a wide-ranging study into the game's great and quirky champions in the hope of unlocking their secrets.
Buchanan said the decade-long debate on whether Muralidaran's deformed elbow straightened had masked the real secret to his success, a magnificently strong wrist which is so supple he can touch his right arm when he bends the middle finger on his bowling hand forward.
"The unfortunate thing about Murali is that there is too much focus on the elbow," Buchanan said.
"That has been cleared by the powers that be, whether people like it or not. Let's go beyond all that until somebody wants to re-open it with a new science. He is doing something with his wrist and his fingers that no one else is doing.
"He is virtually a wrist-spinning finger-spinner. So let's go up to his wrist and see what's happening there. Not everyone's going to be able to do it. I would love to be able to have a look at him.
The only way anyone can truly make a judgment on the validity of Murali's action is get in the nets and watch him bowl from a variety of angles, close up. I've been lucky enough to do this, I've also seen for myself the flexibility his wrist has and also seen him demonstrate at close hand how his elbow cannot bend past 32 degrees. You can whinge all you want but the fact is Murali is not a chucker. Remember he was called by two of the worst umpires in living memory (Hair & Emerson) both of whom many opposing teams privately describe as biased (ask the South Africans about Hair and see the response you get) Everywhere else his action has been passed. It's about time we in Australia got real about this issue and give Murali the benefit of the doubt - after all, the proof is all on his side.
32 degrees bent elbow? Last time I heard, it's way less than that.
I think both you and I have gone through this before......
Murali's normal offie isn't a throw, in fact, his normal action is legal. It's his top spinner, and most recently, his leg break, that is the problem, watching matches of him "bowling" and benefits of TV replays from side on and front on view, his top spinner's arm is definitely at least had a bent elbow of 45 degrees, straightening to say, his maximum amount of 32 degrees, that is a 13 degree of straightening, which passes the 10 degree of tolerance the ICC laws allow.
In one test match I watched Murali, there was a front on view of comparing his normal off break arm action and the top spinner's arm action, there was a CLEAR jerk on his top spinner's arm action, as opposed to his off break, which didn't move an inch.
I think you, Ray, and many others, are confused with the term "Straightening", straightening the elbow does not mean from a bent elbow to a completely straight elbow, if it was bent, and straightened to a degree that it's still bent, but straighter than it was, it's still chucking. Who says you can't chuck without completely straightening?
Murali's rubbery wrist is definitely what allows him to bowl those prodigious off breaks of his, but that top spinner and the leg break, even of Murali's wrist, you cannot do it without chucking, sadly. Watched Murali's new leg break delivery on TV, and can't believe that is ever allowed to call legal. An English journalist said he saw a straightening, I can't blame his eyes.
Whether Murali chucks or not (which I think he does), he's damaging the game with his success, there are millions of kids around the world copying his action, and because they don't have the physical abnormality that Murali enjoys, the kids are all chucking it. For the sake of one man's innocence they are destroying the principles of the game, so chucking or not chucking, he needs to go for the good of the game.
Ray Nolan
18 Feb 2004, 14:34
The secret to the 'toppie' & the 'doosra' is all in the wrist and the fingers, watch closer and you will see. The appearance of a jerk in the elbow is an optical illusion created by the severe movement of the muscles and tendons in the forearm involved in bowling these two types of deliveries. This is even more highlighted by the fact that Murali has very skinny arms and as such the movements are even more visible. As for the straightening, I'm not confused as to the rule, my contention is that Murali IMO bowls every ball at his full 32 degree extension (and that figure is correct, confirmed to me by the man himself) I would expect that if further tests were done on Murali bowling the toppie and the doosra it would confirm he is at full extension. If he was bowling at 45 degrees and then going through to 32 in the delivery action then you are right, that would be a throw. However, on the evidence I've seen, I'm not convinced that he isn't bowling all his deliveries at his full 32 degree extension. I've been watching Murali bowl for near on 12 years and I can honestly say I haven't noticed any difference in the positioning of his elbow whether he's bowling his stock offie or toppie or doosra. Sometimes I think people are looking so hard for things they end up seeing stuff that's not there ...
Cooldude
18 Feb 2004, 14:47
Originally posted by Ray Nolan
The secret to the 'toppie' & the 'doosra' is all in the wrist and the fingers, watch closer and you will see. The appearance of a jerk in the elbow is an optical illusion created by the severe movement of the muscles and tendons in the forearm involved in bowling these two types of deliveries. This is even more highlighted by the fact that Murali has very skinny arms and as such the movements are even more visible. As for the straightening, I'm not confused as to the rule, my contention is that Murali IMO bowls every ball at his full 32 degree extension (and that figure is correct, confirmed to me by the man himself) I would expect that if further tests were done on Murali bowling the toppie and the doosra it would confirm he is at full extension. If he was bowling at 45 degrees and then going through to 32 in the delivery action then you are right, that would be a throw. However, on the evidence I've seen, I'm not convinced that he isn't bowling all his deliveries at his full 32 degree extension. I've been watching Murali bowl for near on 12 years and I can honestly say I haven't noticed any difference in the positioning of his elbow whether he's bowling his stock offie or toppie or doosra. Sometimes I think people are looking so hard for things they end up seeing stuff that's not there ...
I don't believe in optical illusion, they just couldn't prove if it actually straightened or not, several replays from side-on and front-on view definitely suggest that there is a jerk. And also, he definitely isn't on full extension when "bowling" the toppie or the leg break, his arm is bent way more than he'd bowl his off break, especially his doosra.
The initial reason why the ICC cleared his action is because they could not tell if he actually straightened his arm or not, so by lack of evidence they cleared him. This year they're doing deeper research onto spinners throwing and the process of it, so we'll see new things...
Since when does scientists tell us how to bowl anyway?
And also, if I've killed someone, and you ask me if I'm a murderer, would I ever say yes? Same goes with Murali, if he's a chucker, would he tell you that?
Sometimes you can chuck without knowing... there are many in the world that does it
A lot of people around Murali does have a biase view on him, coz they know him, and he's a nice bloke and all, and they feel sorry for him and stuff... but the fact remains that he is seriously detrimental to the game...
CatManDo
18 Feb 2004, 14:57
Originally posted by Ray Nolan
Murali has... a magnificently strong wrist which is so supple he can touch his right arm when he bends the middle finger on his bowling hand forward.
That is a little freaky.
Ray Nolan
18 Feb 2004, 15:03
Right, I'll set out my stall in saying that I've met Murali on numerous occasions and I do think he's a cracking bloke. However my judgment on the legality of action is only based on what I have seen with my own eyes in the flesh and by what has been proven by scientific testing. From what I have seen I think there is no doubt he is legal. I have yet to see anything to shake me from that view.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.:cool:
Cooldude
18 Feb 2004, 15:09
Originally posted by Ray Nolan
Right, I'll set out my stall in saying that I've met Murali on numerous occasions and I do think he's a cracking bloke. However my judgment on the legality of action is only based on what I have seen with my own eyes in the flesh and by what has been proven by scientific testing. From what I have seen I think there is no doubt he is legal. I have yet to see anything to shake me from that view.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.:cool:
Okay, that's your view :) My view is the same as Bishen Bedi's, regardless of his nice-bloke personality, he is a "theif, burglar and a dacoit". He chucks, he disgraces the game, and he's setting the game back by 40 years with all those kids copying his action set to play competitive cricket 5-8 years later, and the game would be a mess to clean up.
GoEagles
18 Feb 2004, 17:07
I think it's quite sad that the potential bowler who will take the most test wickets isn't happy to play in Australia because of the crowd taunts. Personally I think it's a lack of respect from the crowd and a tall-poppy syndrome that is intent to cut in down (maybe so Shane Warne could become the greatest wicket taker). His suspect action has been cleared by an expet panel by the ICC which is good enough for me.
If I was in his shoes, I wouldn't want to come to a country that wasn't welcoming of me. The sticks and stones mentality is all fine and good - but if the crowd makes it an issue every time he goes out to play it's not worth the hassle.
Regardless of Murali's intent, if he chucks the ball he is a cheat.
Regardless of Murali's physical condition, if he chucks the ball he is a cheat.
Regardless of Murali's ICC clearance, if he chucks the ball he is a cheat.
If a cricketer was missing a couple of fingers on one hand, would it be ok for him to wear a baseball glove in the field? No, it would be cheating.
The Spornstar
19 Feb 2004, 06:49
Originally posted by Ray Nolan
Remember he was called by two of the worst umpires in living memory (Hair & Emerson) both of whom many opposing teams privately describe as biased (ask the South Africans about Hair and see the response you get)
Yeah that's based on that one test in Adelaide in 93/94. The South Africans had a massive whinge about biased umpiring and cracked the s.hi..ts yet when you looked at all the decisions they were (maybe with the exception of 1) all correct.
Originally posted by Zeke
Regardless of Murali's intent, if he chucks the ball he is a cheat.
Regardless of Murali's physical condition, if he chucks the ball he is a cheat.
Regardless of Murali's ICC clearance, if he chucks the ball he is a cheat.
If a cricketer was missing a couple of fingers on one hand, would it be ok for him to wear a baseball glove in the field? No, it would be cheating.
Fully agree Zeke.
I don't care that the guy has a physical abnormality. If he does, he should never have been able to progress this far to international cricket.
I've watched alot of his bowling, and no one can tell me that he doesn't chuck the ball. Grab a tennis ball and try and bowl an off-spinner with a completely straight arm, and then do it with a bent arm - it is clear that with the bent arm you can spin it so much more. Therefore he has an unfair advantage, and plays on his physical deformity as his excuse.
He is a chucker plain and simple.
Cooldude
19 Feb 2004, 11:03
There should be a new rule made that everyone has to bowl with straight arms, who cares about these bent arm business, if everyone's arm starts out straight, then there's no way we can suspect them of chucking, it's silly with this bent arm business.
Also, with a bent arm, you obviously gain unfair advantage than those who bowl with straight arm...
Originally posted by Funky Colin
As someone who also has a bent elbow (as a result of a dislocation during childhood) I can sympathise with Murali's situation.
So you're hardly objective the eh?
You guys are forgetting one simple fact - his action has been cleared by a panel of experts and he's permitted to bowl in this manner
So this panel of experts has a crystal ball that tells them he will never in the future bowl a delivery that's illegal? Interesting.
and therefore all his wickets are legally taken.
According to the laws of cricket the umpires are the final arbiter of that, so therefore perhaps they are not.
The amount of xenophobic, one-eyed, venomous drivel that has appeared in this thread is a disgrace.
Of course, if we think he's a chucker we're xenophobic racists. It couldn't be that we think he chucks becuase well, he chucks could it? Nah, that'd be too easy.
Oh, and another thing - it's Australian to give everyone a fair go and to applaud those who achieve greatness from humble beginnings (such as growing up in the backblocks of Galle and living off $5 a day until you were 18 years old).
It's also australian to hang **** on everyone, particularly soft cocks who spit the dummy and have a sook about being called a "nasty name". Sticks and stones fer christ sake.
Originally posted by Ray Nolan
Remember he was called by two of the worst umpires in living memory (Hair & Emerson) both of whom many opposing teams privately describe as biased
Which'd be why Darryl made the international panel......
London Dave
19 Feb 2004, 20:15
let's face it, the ability of umpires to call someone for throwing in a game has been taken away from them, and it was done in a 'racially' inspired way. it all happened on Dalmiya's watch over the ICC. The sad thing is, we will never know if he (Murali) chucks or not, simply because of the way it was handled by the powers at the time. It was expedient for them to drive a wedge between old guard and new. They (the sub continent bunch) wanted neutral umpires in tests...now tell me, has it made umpiring standards any better? The sub continent journos are still the first to moan about umpiring decisions...crikey, you got the system you wanted, and you still crack the poo over it.
I will add the performance of Ranatunga et al during that one day game at adelaide v England a few years back was an absolute disgrace. If they did nowt about throwing, they should of suspended him (and anyone else who carries on in that manner) big time for that one!
Murali is a gun. There has been so much whinging about him in Oz I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to come down here but surely being a professional he will come.
He will blow the wicket taking record out of the water and good on him. He has been looked at and found legal so what else can he do?
Some people will never be pleased.