Thoughts

[spindoctor]

I was impressed with Ben Hudson.

Hentschel seemed alright in defense.

Skipworth looked OK up forward.

I was not impressed with Adelaide as a whole - we don't look to have progressed at all from last season, again the best passages of play came from the old firm.

I harbour severe concerns for Ayres' ability to generate any new ideas in his coaching.

Perrie looked the same again - one-dimensional.

Carey looked the same as last season.

Does not bode particularly well. I await being proven wrong, but that's how it looks.

[macca23]

No problem with anything you've said above.

People will say, it's only a trial. Fair enough. But we were ordinary. I thought the Saints should have won by more.

Our game plan was cheap and nasty. Leading out to the flanks and wings to get the easy kick. A recipe for disaster. For weeks we practice a direct style of approach going into the forward lines, but the first time we are placed under pressure we revert to this ugly to watch, ineffective, high possession, low result style of game.

There were a couple of positives from an individual point of view. such as Hentshel and Hudson, but from a team point of view - very ordinary.

Ayres won't be there next year if this is going to be our style of play during the year.

It's only February, but we very disappointing.

[lozstar]

i'm hoping that "it's only the wizard cup" applies here. :( didn't look all that good at all.

really, really hoping that won't be like that during the season.

Carey didn't look much better than last year - he still looks old and like he's had it! :(

only upside was the youngins.. they looked pretty good - hopefully more game experience will do them some more good.

- what the hell was with those goal & field umpires with Reilly's (i think?) goal.. I swear they don't know the rules.

[ok.crows]

Very ordinary performance. Poor use of the ball. Inefficient. Indirect. Went wide. Played only one quarter.

Quite a bit of work to do yet.

Gameplan needs fixing still.

[topjars]

Lets not panic.
There were some good signs in Ben Hudson, Gallagher, and dare I say it- Trent Hentschell.

Ive bagged him from day one but although he had a shaky start, (Where he shirked a contest) he gained confidence as the game went on and actually showed poise in one play where he was boxed in.

Ben Hudson reminded me of a raw Shaun Rehn- He will be a player.

Ronnie Burns was terrible- fumbled the ball at least three times and mucked up a couple of disposals when he did get a handle on it.

Pretty ordinary Crows
Well done Saints you were more direct which apparently the Crows were gonna be this year:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

We missed Sir Ben.

[tinman]

Originally posted by ok.crows
Very ordinary performance. Poor use of the ball. Inefficient. Indirect. Went wide. Played only one quarter.

Quite a bit of work to do yet.

Gameplan needs fixing still.

It didn't look like we had a game plan.... :confused:

Don't disagree with anything said in the posts above. Also thought that Gallagher did well and showed real courage on a couple of occasions, and his disposal was good.

Reilly had a good last quarter as did Burton after both spent long periods on the bench. Edwards battled away well.

Welsh moved well and hopefully he will stay sound. Goodwin also showed that he may be back to his best this year.

Perrie struggled at FF and led wide all game. We looked better with Carey off the ground. Bassett looked very very ordinary. Burns in the midfield at this stage of his career is mystifying. Maybe he needs the run and the coaches think that he will work harder there than in the forward line where he may have been slightly more useful???

Overall the scoreline flattered us as St Kilda looked a much better, more direct team and they have a fair bit to get excited about with some of the young players they have coming through.:(

[Bockchoy67]

Yes, we were ordinary, and yes we did not play well, and yes we did not win, but at least there were some positive signs to come out of this match.

For one, Skippy looked to be in real good shape, speedy, and kicked a good couple of goals. Played more of a goal - sneak today, which seemed to suit him at time.

Hentschel, in my opinion has GROWN. Big time. Not only in size but also in skill. I wouldn't go past saying he one of our if not our best player todasy (which still doesn't mean much). Unfortunately, his performance was marred by his seemigly effortless kick which bassically ruled off any chance of winning.

Hudson was not outstanding, but very solidl. Good effort for his first game.

I must also say I was VERY happy with Scotty Welsh. Did everything he needed to do.

The negatives-

Scott Stevens did not play well. Looked slow and won now contests. With his build he should be, easily.

Perrie was pretty bad. Did not give 100%, dropped easy marks,
and led far too wide.

Carey was aklso disappointing, and unfortunately seems to have injured his knee a bit. I'm not sure, but he had an ice pack on it.

I still think we did well today. Our first three Qs were terrible, but our fight at the end shows we've still got it.

Don't worry, we'll prove Walls wrong.

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by tinman
It didn't look like we had a game plan.... :confused:

Don't disagree with anything said in the posts above. Also thought that Gallagher did well and showed real courage on a couple of occasions, and his disposal was good.

Reilly had a good last quarter as did Burton after both spent long periods on the bench. Edwards battled away well.

Welsh moved well and hopefully he will stay sound. Goodwin also showed that he may be back to his best this year.

Perrie struggled at FF and led wide all game. We looked better with Carey off the ground. Bassett looked very very ordinary. Burns in the midfield at this stage of his career is mystifying. Maybe he needs the run and the coaches think that he will work harder there than in the forward line where he may have been slightly more useful???

Overall the scoreline flattered us as St Kilda looked a much better, more direct team and they have a fair bit to get excited about with some of the young players they have coming through.:(

On the gameplan ... didn't the Crows hint that they had been working on it ?

On the team selections ... didn't the Crows hint that they would give gametime this season to the younger players ?

Either (1) this is their 'new' gameplan, and it is absolutely useless. BTW, didn't Port alread prove how comprehensively uselesss the 'move it slowly forward, try to keep possession, go short & wide' gameplan was ?

or

(2) Ayres & the Crows are trying to keep something under wraps.

Lets hope it is (2). (1) sucks.

[Stiffy_18]

First of all congratulations to St. Kilda. They were fantastic and the final score board was not a true indication of the match. We only played 1 good quarter of footy.

Positives

Ben Hudson - doesn't this guy have an apetite for contest or what. I think he will be a very handy player for us. This is the 2nd time I have seen him play and I must say he keeps on impressing me more and more. I actually thought we played better when he was in the ruck rather than Biglands. A much better back up than the soft one.

Trent Hentschel - Did very well on Kosi in the 1st half and held his own against Hamill in the 2nd half. Got a few touches. What really impressed me was that he always seemed to have enough time to make the right decision and select the right option. This is a sign of a good player. He will need more muscle if he is to hold down a KP this year.

Brent Reilly - for the life of me I cannot figure out why he didn't get any game time in the 1st half:confused: . He was good when he came on and kicked a couple of goals. I particularly liked his 2nd goal.:D

Skippy was good up forward but he really needs to keep his man from dominating a game. Kicked a couple of nice goals.

Gallagher - rebounded well from defence. Got a lot of the ball and used it well but needs to keep an eye on his man. Clarke was more effective than him.

Welshy is getting back into good form.

Form of some other senior players.

Negatives

Too Carey concious. We played better with him on the pine. Perrie thrives on being the go to guy and when ever Cary plays Sarge goes missing.

Going too wide again. We seemed lost, didn't have a fair crack until last quarter.

Scott Stevens looked lost.

We seem to be playing short chipping style of game like Port did last year. Not very happy about this.

How many holes our defence has without Hart, Smart and Torney.

Forward line non existent.

Delivery to the forward was poor.

Forwards leading to the flanks.

Nothing seems to have changed.

Ronnie bloody Burns was pathetic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bickley is more of a loss than some of us realise as is Mark Stevens. Perrie functions better with Stevo than he does with Carey.

Overall: some good signs shown by the youngsters but some worrying signs in regards to our game plan.

[tinman]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18

Brent Reilly - for the life of me I cannot figure out why he didn't get any game time in the 1st half:confused: . He was good when he came on and kicked a couple of goals. I particularly liked his 2nd goal.:D

Ronnie bloody Burns was pathetic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bickley is more of a loss than some of us realise as is Mark Stevens. Perrie functions better with Stevo than he does with Carey.

Overall: some good signs shown by the youngsters but some worrying signs in regards to our game plan.

The loss of Bickley is huge, particularly as Kane Johnson was traded. The much vaunted midfield is not what it was a couple of years ago. Reilly looks like he is a good type and at least he plays direct.

To be fair to Ronnie, he has played all of his footy close to goal and he has proven to be a very damaging player. At this stage of his career I can't fathom why we would be experimenting with him upfield, unless they wanted to make him run to lift his match fitness level. Surely we must have better midfield options????

[macca23]

Good post Stiffy, and well summed up.

One of the few things I'd like to add is that Ayres must have a death wish playing Ronnie Burns as a wingman.

A bit soft but definitely unaccountable.

Burns is a FP or nothing.

Also Ayres initial match-up of Shirley on Milne was nothing short of stupid.

Now that we're knocked out of the Wizzer, Reilly Schuback etc must be given every opportunity.

If Ayres can't get the players to play down the corridor then he has to be replaced. All we saw was the same old ugly movement around the boundary into the forward 50. You can't win a flag doing that as long as your bum points to the ground.

[Stiffy_18]

Actually guys I listened to Ronnie the other day on 5AA and he actually went to the coaching staff at the end of last year and asked them if he could play on the wing as he was getting "bored" playing in the forward line he wanted to do something different.

For the life of me I cannot understand why the hell would the coaching staff oblige.

Reilly came on for Ronnie and imidietly you caould see that it was better for the structure of the team and Reilly kicked a couple of goals and a some very neat touches. He will be a good player but we need more midfield options who can get their own in and under footy and have pace.

St. Kilda's midfield has pace to burn and they were leaving us for dead a few times out there.

The other thing is that I was disappointed with Ken McGregor's effort on Reiwoldt. I thought he should have done better. Granted you can never keep someone like Reiwoldt completely quiet but Reiwoldt was left alone on a number of occasions in the forward line. This was a chance for Kenny to step up and be a leader in the backline with absence of Hart and Smart and he didn't really do it.

I thought Bassett did a very good job on Gehrig. Fraser did kick a couple of goals but apart from that he was pretty quiet. I thought hound did a fair job today.

Stenglein's goal in the 1st quarter, how good was that??????

Johncocks ability to hold his feet is fantastic and he also kicked a ripper.

[macca23]

Originally posted by topjars

We missed Sir Ben.

Ahhhhh!! A smile at last for me!! :)

Geez it was good to see him in a guernsey that wasn't the Crows. :D

His efforts for Richmond were deplorable.

When we delisted him, we got nothing for him. We were way in front on that deal!! :p

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by macca23
Ahhhhh!! A smile at last for me!! :)

Geez it was good to see him in a guernsey that wasn't the Crows. :D

His efforts for Richmond were deplorable.

When we delisted him, we got nothing for him. We were way in front on that deal!! :p We got a better pick up in Hudson. The only thing they have in common is their first name.

I think Topjars might have been talking about Ben Hart.

Ah well of to Perth now to play Fremantle on sunday. 5AA is apparently covering it so we can at least listen to it on radio.

macca23, didn't i say the other day that we will lose to St. Kilda and you guys shot me down in flames:(

One negative of dropping out of wizzer is that we get to travel all over the country and play in counrty carnival sort of games. (Which is good for the locals but not AFC). However, I see more positives where we can nurse our senior players into form and give youngsters some real game time. I would be playing Schuey and even Jericho against Freo next week.

[redandblack]

Wouldn't take much notice of the form of some of the more experienced players in a game like today. What was obvious was the difference Reilly made to the structure, giving us some run and good delivery through the middle.

[acg_204*]

Very dissappointing. Agree with everything that's been said so far.

Hudson impressed me with a bit of the ground work he was involved in, didn't mind scrapping for it.

Great to see Welsh play out the game so well. Looked more comfortable playing further up the ground in the second half. That mark was a beauty, shows he's got that confidence back to throw his body around like that.

Reilly was impressive, silky skills were on show and loved the goal...should've been a 9 pointer damn it!

Skippy was also impressive, worked his way through traffic really well.

Burns still hasn't learnt what it means to give off first time...he still holds it up, waits til he's in trouble, tries to run around a few blokes and then dishes off and sells someone else into trouble. Can't believe he got a game ahead of Schuback.

St Kilda were just too good in close, their hands were so clean...we on the other hand couldn't seem to grab it first time. Especially Burton!

Burton still doesn't have the ability to keep his feet.

Would've thought Massie was a better match up for Milne from the start of the game than Shirley.

Carey looked ordinary today, but why do they keep insisting on bombing it long to him when he's got two defenders. He can't jump anymore or take a mark over head, why not deliver it to him on the lead?!

Hand skills were very poor, Harvey and Hayes recieved a few free touches after our blokes hand passed it to them, laces out on their chest.

Roo was good, as asual. And Edwards again didn't let down.

Potential Hentschel looked good in the last quarter until the pressure got to him and he took about 5 minutes to bang it long in the last thirty seconds.

[Jerome]

Full marks to St Kilda. They played a far more committed, smarter style of play than AFC. Give them 4 - 6 weeks to get match fit and they'll be even more dangerous! Very well done Sanits.

Nick Riewoldt carved us up. I liked his game a lot!

Crows - well that was stinky!! I really didnt expect to see the Crows brand of dumb football so early in the year.

All of our bad habits were there - playing out wide, poor skills, poor decision making, stop/start movement from defence.

We lacked spirit at times. Schocking! Macca is right the Saints should have whipped us by more.

Where was the smart, new effecient gameplan?

Some of the match ups were bloody terrible - Edwards and Goodwin on Hammil?? Our weaknesses in defence were exposed again today and it didnt look like we've developed a plan b or c.

Very ordinary team performance. A real lack of leadership from defence too. Bass and Kenny should have straightened us up and sorted the mess out.

Some of the good ones for AFC

Stiffy - tried really hard. Made the odd blues, but showed some real commitment.

Welsh - fearless. Really has improved, his commitment to a contest is first rate. please keep injury free Welshy!

Skipworth - did some nice work up forward.

Radar - provided some much needed run and followed through with a goal. Well done.

Hudson looked okay. I hope he stays in for a few weeks and is given time to get his game together. Made mistakes but ran in to make second efforts and sort them out.

Hentschel - hey Stiffy are you one of the Rowdy Boyz? Seems TH already has a fan club.

He did some nice things, especially in the second quarter he lifted his game a bit there. A couple of wayward kicks but than can be fixed. Flashy stuff - side stepped a couple of players.

However my main problem is with the physical side of his game.

He does not want to go into a pack and get the ball. Hamill and Kosi lead him to the ball and used their body to keep him out of contests. Unless he starts working on this now it will be exploited and someone will use his lack of confidence against him, making it worse.

He has to stop being a spectator and go everywhere with his man. Hammill ran off him up the ground, into a pack and he just stayed back. I'm yet to be convinced he is the answer in defence...he really has to improve his competitiveness in the next few weeks.

[kirky]

Very frustating game to watch today. I know that Mr Williams threw out his gameplan in the rubbish and it looks like Mr Ayres picked it up.

What is with the slow movement of the ball out of defence. A couple of times we held onto the ball then decided to kick it forward, it got turned over immediately and goals resulted when we could have kicked it forward immediately and not wasted time. Must learn to do the instinctive things, remember footballers generally lack a high level intelligence(otherwise they wouldn't be footballers).

Wide , wide , wide....WHY, WHY, WHY????

We should have been belted but fought it out. Hentschell did some good things and am looking forward to his year...

Still, it is only February. But the game plan needs a rethink if that what was on offer today....

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bickley is more of a loss than some of us realise as is Mark Stevens. Perrie functions better with Stevo than he does with Carey.

When you lose hard at the ball players out of the midfield (Bickley and Johnson) it does make an enormous difference. The added loss of hardnut Stevens, results in a gamestyle I thought was fairly soft.

[macca23]

Originally posted by redandblack
Wouldn't take much notice of the form of some of the more experienced players in a game like today. What was obvious was the difference Reilly made to the structure, giving us some run and good delivery through the middle.

You're right about Reilly. He should have been on all game.

It wasn't the form of the players that bothered me. It was the pathetic way we brought the ball around the boundary all the time.

They've been practicing a more direct approach for weeks and forgot that in 1 minute.

[Stiffy_18]

Gee Jerome you are hard to please. I saw hentschel at the bottom of couple of packs and I was thinking "I wonder if Jerome is watching this". Honestly he is a kid who played his 4th AFL game. 30 odd games of SANFL senior football doesn't make and instant AFL footballer. He did well today. He will improve with time. A few years ago Welshy wasn't as hard at it as he is now. He has improved that side of his game over the years. It won't happen overnight for Hentschel. It will take time but he shows a lot more in his 4th game than the likes of McGregor and Perrie did.

Give the kid a break and in time he will come good and be a better player than the 2 I mentioned.

[macca23]

I thought Jerome's criticism of Hentschel was a bit harsh as well.

There were a couple of occasions he might have done more, but overall he can hold his head high.

17 disposals and 6 marks in a defence under fire due to slackness of his team-mates upfield says it all.

As Stiffy said, it was only his 4th game at this level. He did well.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by macca23
I thought Jerome's criticism of Hentschel was a bit harsh as well.

There were a couple of occasions he might have done more, but overall he can hold his head high.

17 disposals and 6 marks in a defence under fire due to slackness of his team-mates upfield says it all.

As Stiffy said, it was only his 4th game at this level. He did well. I just don't get it. Why do people want to sink boots into Hentschel on every opportunity they get.

I swear if the kid had a 40 possesion 20 mark, 10 goal game with no turnover they would still find something to bag him for.:rolleyes:

[PAfolwr]

I fell asleep during the last quarter, but will say this for the other three.
Carey___Time to retire big fella. He is taking up precious space.
Hentschell___He has to be played. Give him gametime and he will be alright.
Hudson___First time the Crows have had a ruckman for years. He MUST be given gametime. Sorry, but you lot rate your current ruckmen far higher than the rest of us.
Hudson looked good. He is ok to good at centre bounces. Can take a mark, and looks for contests around the place. Cannot ask for much more. Experience required now.

Of your more experienced players, they did what one expects of them in the first game. Of the rest, not much to say really.
Gameplan_Was there one? I was looking to see what was being tried out, but for the life of me I couldn't spot it.

St Kilda___Yes if any of you Saint supporters see this you can bookmark it.
1. You may win the Wizard Cup.
2. You will be one of the teams fighting it out for the bottom of the 8 at most, and maybe even not make it.

[Jerome]

I fully understand what you guys are saying about his lack of experience.

I call it as I see it. How well he trains, how much he's been talked up and where he is at compared to other senior players doesnt interest me that much.

How he plays on the day is what I will judge him on and I've done that.

I dont like what I am seeing ... but take it as constructive criticisim. For me, what I have said above is'nt that harsh. I did acknowldge some good work and pointed out the stuff he needs to improve on.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by PAfolwr
I fell asleep during the last quarter, but will say this for the other three.
Carey___Time to retire big fella. He is taking up precious space.
Hentschell___He has to be played. Give him gametime and he will be alright.
Hudson___First time the Crows have had a ruckman for years. He MUST be given gametime. Sorry, but you lot rate your current ruckmen far higher than the rest of us.
Hudson looked good. He is ok to good at centre bounces. Can take a mark, and looks for contests around the place. Cannot ask for much more. Experience required now.

Of your more experienced players, they did what one expects of them in the first game. Of the rest, not much to say really.
Gameplan_Was there one? I was looking to see what was being tried out, but for the life of me I couldn't spot it.

St Kilda___Yes if any of you Saint supporters see this you can bookmark it.
1. You may win the Wizard Cup.
2. You will be one of the teams fighting it out for the bottom of the 8 at most, and maybe even not make it. I think thats a fair summary. As far as Saints go I think they need a good coach and they will be top 4. In all honesty taking on the coaching job at St. Kilda now would be every coaches dream. Embarassment of young riches in that side.

Since you are not a biased observer what did you think of Reilly for the short time you saw him play.

[Wayne's-World]

All the feedback thus far, IMO has been spot on.
From my perspective:

Negatives
Our midfield was woeful. Hudson and Biglands weren't getting their hands to the ball first, and St Kilda consistently took the ball easily out of the square. We hard no physicality in the centre bounces. We tried the "B" squad in the centre square and they were found wanting. Bode, Skippy, and Stenglein were not up to it.

We lacked pace from our midfield, and our tackling was non existant.

Once again, without Hart and Smart, we lacked run and attack from the backline; too slow and indirect coming out. This was evident last year where these two missed, Mcgregor, Bassett, Hentschell,Massie... did not provide the necessary rebound.
This is a problem for the future.

Burton and Roo were out of touch. Burton never comes back from injury well, and should not have played. Roo mishandled the ball, due to his thumb.

Our youngsters continue to go back and have a kick, rather than take on their opponent. Points to a lack of confidence in their own abilities.
Bode, and Skipworth, get the ball, and due to a lack of pace, prop with the ball as their about to be caught, and feed off a handball backwards, or a rushed kick. Whatever, it throws the forwards right out, making it difficult to read the game.

The gamestyle of last year was still evident, but we did not have a winning spine to kick to. Ball movement was too slow, but I believe it was more a personnel issue/decision making process.
Positives

Reilly and Hentschell showed they have what it takes at this level. Reilly was all class with some of his 2nd half efforts.
Hudson provides a touch of aggression - his palming is not the greatest (found St Kilda players more than ours), but his 2nd efforts and hunger for the contest was really pleasing.
If his arobic capacity was OK, he could be a KPP option, as IMO he appears to be quite quick for his size, and takes a good grab.

Welsh was fantastic.

Gallagher, did a marvellous job, and is making it hard for everyone to discount him from team calculations.

When the "A" team went into the centre in the last qtr, you could see the difference immediately.

Overall, 1st real competitive game. Not going to slit any wrists yet, but
Bode is in trouble - showed nothing today
Skippy - good SANFL player only
Shirley - did he play?
WE need to improve the midfield dramatically - Pace,Physicality, Decision making and Disposal.

[Jerome]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I just don't get it.

Its not so much a Hentschel thing. I have acknowledged his work at SANFL level prior to this - I said last year he and Rutten were the best two performing Crows in the SANFL finals. So maybe my expectations for him have risen.

Its more to do with defence. We need to develop new players/strategies to combat the big powerful forwards.

I cant see how Hentschel can help us with this. It will still leave us with the same options that have failed before. Unless he improves the physical side of his game it doesnt decrease our problems in this area of our game.

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by Jerome
All of our bad habits were there - playing out wide, poor skills, poor decision making, stop/start movement from defence.

Very ordinary team performance. A real lack of leadership from defence too. Bass and Kenny should have straightened us up and sorted the mess out.


Yes without the leadership and experience of Smart and Hart, there appeared to be no defensive "general" controlling the backline. McGregor has to impose himself more on the game, and lead the defence - thats what all good CHB's do.
For me he's too introverted/passive.

[maccas_no1]

Have to say I was very disapointed after what I seen today, same wide indirect gameplan that will get us know where in 2004, THIS GAME PLAN HAS GOT TO GO:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Carey I thought looked a lil more stronger and fitter than last year was quite good and took a couple of strong marks in the first quarter, was pretty impressed with Scott Welsh was hard at the footy and made his presance felt up forward, Scott Stevens, Hentshel and Skipworth were all quite good too.

IAN PERRIE YOU ARE A ****ING DUD:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Tyson Stenglien isnt far behind both played shockers:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[macca23]

What a p*sser of a day.

First of all I watch the Crows come up short, and then I watch Australia fail by 1 run in it's run chase in the one day game against Sri Lanka. Only just finished.

Thank god I didn't have any bets on the geegees today!! ;)

[acg_204*]

Originally posted by macca23
What a p*sser of a day.

First of all I watch the Crows come up short, and then I watch Australia fail by 1 run in it's run chase in the one day game against Sri Lanka. Only just finished.

Thank god I didn't have any bets on the geegees today!! ;)

Why the hell didn't Gilly open?! Geez...

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Jerome
Its not so much a Hentschel thing. I have acknowledged his work at SANFL level prior to this - I said last year he and Rutten were the best two performing Crows in the SANFL finals. So maybe my expectations for him have risen.

Its more to do with defence. We need to develop new players/strategies to combat the big powerful forwards.

I cant see how Hentschel can help us with this. It will still leave us with the same options that have failed before. Unless he improves the physical side of his game it doesnt decrease our problems in this area of our game. OK your critisism has to do more with our defence but why take it out on Hentschel. Why not take it out on McGregor who was torn a new one by Reiwoldt??????:confused:

You cannot expect a kid with 4 games of AFL experience to be the answer. If you think Hentschel will keep the likes of Lynch and Tredrea quiet this year then you are very much mistaken cos it ain't gonna happen. Playing Hentschel won't make us any better in defence this year but will help in the long run. He won't make it worse than last years but he won't make it better either.

The only thing you could have taken out of last year's SANFL final series about Hentschel is that he is a capable as a backman and is improving. Pinning our hopes on a youngster with limited experience at the senior lever is way too much to ask. Its just wishful thinking.

BTW, who do you think IS the answer. I honestly don't see a player on our list who can help us out in the area that you are talking about.

[macca23]

Originally posted by acg_204*
Why the hell didn't Gilly open?! Geez...

Sat in the pavilion nearly all night and then out for bugger all when he came in.

Not a good move, as Clarke made a quack opening in Gilly's spot.

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
. He will improve with time. A few years ago Welshy wasn't as hard at it as he is now. He has improved that side of his game over the years. It won't happen overnight for Hentschel. It will take time but he shows a lot more in his 4th game than the likes of McGregor and Perrie did.

Give the kid a break and in time he will come good and be a better player than the 2 I mentioned.

He doesnt play the game that way, yes he will get better, but he won't be a Johnathon Brown.
What impressed me today was his ability, as a tall, to sidestep players and feed-off. He has improved his composure, but he does need to move the ball quicker, and if he's not a physical player, he must learn to run through the lines (like a Ben Hart), and turn defence into attack.

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I just don't get it. Why do people want to sink boots into Hentschel on every opportunity they get.

I swear if the kid had a 40 possesion 20 mark, 10 goal game with no turnover they would still find something to bag him for.:rolleyes:

I'm with you Stiffy;)

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
He doesnt play the game that way, yes he will get better, but he won't be a Johnathon Brown.
What impressed me today was his ability, as a tall, to sidestep players and feed-off. He has improved his composure, but he does need to move the ball quicker, and if he's not a physical player, he must learn to run through the lines (like a Ben Hart), and turn defence into attack. Completely different type of player to Jonathan Brown and will never be as physical as Brown (but Watts will:D)

Yes his evasion skills are very good for a tall and his delivery by foot is also very good. Running throught the lines will come with experience and more confidence. He will be a good player for us but we have to be patient. We can't expect him to hold our defence toghether at his stage.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
I'm with you Stiffy;) Took you a while.:p

[macca23]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
He doesnt play the game that way, yes he will get better, but he won't be a Johnathon Brown.
What impressed me today was his ability, as a tall, to sidestep players and feed-off. He has improved his composure, but he does need to move the ball quicker, and if he's not a physical player, he must learn to run through the lines (like a Ben Hart), and turn defence into attack.

He certainly will never be a Johnathon Brown - I wish we had one. We might actually go down the centre of the ground if we did.

He'll learn Wayne's-World, he'll learn. He took a good step forward today.

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by maccas_no1

Tyson Stenglien isnt far behind both played shockers:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Did a couple of good things, but the jury is out, if he's going to be part of the midfield.
Too slow, slow disposal, and poor disposal. He's actually a good kick, but because he's always getting caught as he kicks, it's generally rushed and ineffective.

[Stiffy_18]

I get the feeling that Watts will cop as much flak as Hentschel on this board because the supporters are not very patient.

We cannot expect our youngsters to come in and star. We cannot expect them to be the players that carry this team and sort our problems straight away.

You cannot buy experience.

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Completely different type of player to Jonathan Brown and will never be as physical as Brown (but Watts will:D)

Yes his evasion skills are very good for a tall and his delivery by foot is also very good. Running throught the lines will come with experience and more confidence. He will be a good player for us but we have to be patient. We can't expect him to hold our defence toghether at his stage.

I agree, but without the generals;Smart and Hart, who is going to hold the defence together and lead Hentschell.

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
...Since you are not a biased observer what did you think of Reilly for the short time you saw him play.
Sorry Stiffy cannot help. As I said, I was fast asleep in the last and also nodding on and off in the third.
I have just read a lot of posts, and by the sounds of it he (along with the rest ) had a better last quarter.
Before that didn't really notice him. Nothing to say, neither good nor bad.

I have only just read the final score. Struth, the Sainters nearly gave it away. They were doing it easy for the first three quarters.

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by macca23
He'll learn Wayne's-World, he'll learn. He took a good step forward today.

I have to agree he did take a big step forward today.
Just needs a bit of experience and leadership around him.
I do have a concern for McGregor, not that he's a bad player, just that I would prefer someone more imposing, dominating, and a defensive unit leader?

[acg_204*]

Originally posted by macca23
Sat in the pavilion nearly all night and then out for bugger all when he came in.

Not a good move, as Clarke made a quack opening in Gilly's spot.

The form Gilly's showed in the One Dayers over the past four months, you wouldn't drop him down the order for anyone...let alone a kid who's never played on the sub-continent before and judging by his dismissal in the first game can't pick Murali what so ever.

[acg_204*]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
I have to agree he did take a big step forward today.
Just needs a bit of experience and leadership around him.
I do have a concern for McGregor, not that he's a bad player, just that I would prefer someone more imposing, dominating, and a defensive unit leader?

I'm concerned for McGregor too...with the way bloody Bassett kept taking him out all match. Three times Kenny was backing back to take a grab and Bassett came from behind and spoiled him. Twice it resulted in a goal, the second time being the match winner.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
I agree, but without the generals;Smart and Hart, who is going to hold the defence together and lead Hentschell. Even in this case you can't expect hentschel to hold it together. We should be turning to our other senior players in the backline. The likes of Bassett, Edwards and McGregor who really disappointed me today. I expected Kenny to step up and be a leader in the backline but he gave Reiwoldt far too much room and was very average today.

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I get the feeling that Watts will cop as much flak as Hentschel on this board because the supporters are not very patient.

We cannot expect our youngsters to come in and star. We cannot expect them to be the players that carry this team and sort our problems straight away.

You cannot buy experience.

I think part of the problem is the hype generated firstly around the National Draft, and secondly by the clubs themselves to generate interest and memberships.
Watts, even B4 he put on a CRows Gurnsey, has been hailed as our saviour, our Great White CHF who we're going to build our team around.

Thats a lot of pressure on the kid.

Days gone by, most recruits were unknowns, with impressions gained on the training track, or after a few league games. Now all the hype is there b4 they even get recruited.

Yes, by our own doing - we are very impatient

Bulldogs, believe their #1recruit this year, is their saviour - for gods sake he's18!!!!!

[sir_dan]

I was at the game today and couldn't wait to get home to find out who number 27 for us was.

On todays performance, we recruited Scott Stevens why??!! He was gutless, didn't chase and was more of a spectator than I was!
Johncock did look good, he will be great this season.

Biglands really is the only "big" man for the crows that uses his frame. Perrie will play for my beloved Panthers again this year on todays efforts. If he relies on free kicks to kick his goals or plays behind his opposition like he did today we may as well have Fergus Watts in the team already. I didn't see any other big man go fearlessly into the pack than Biglands and we need more than 1 bigman to do that. Carey was more physical off the ball than on it. Bassett showed why he should play in the backlines all season, even if not at full back.

Skipworth deserves a position in the opening round. I was impressed with him today. Could fill the hole Bickley has left.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
I think part of the problem is the hype generated firstly around the National Draft, and secondly by the clubs themselves to generate interest and memberships.
Watts, even B4 he put on a CRows Gurnsey, has been hailed as our saviour, our Great White CHF who we're going to build our team around.

Thats a lot of pressure on the kid.

Days gone by, most recruits were unknowns, with impressions gained on the training track, or after a few league games. Now all the hype is there b4 they even get recruited.

Yes, by our own doing - we are very impatient

Bulldogs, believe their #1recruit this year, is their saviour - for gods sake he's18!!!!! Thats what gets up my nose. Too big an expectations placed on a kid.

When the club comesout and says we got a beauty in this player a lot of supporters take it as granted that the kid will come in and dominate ganes and be the missing link. HIstory will show that players start showing some good signs in their 3rd year of AFL footy. It takes 3 years for player to get their bodies and skills developed to the point that they are competative at AFL level and they go on from there until they reach their potential. It is very rare that an 18 year old will help imidietly. I think Chris Judd comes along one in a blue moon.

Youngsters need time especially ones taken later in the draft.

I think in time we will potentially have a ripper of a spine if our hopefulls are not cut down by injuries. I don't expect it this year or next year but in 5 or so years time the likes of Krueger, Watts, Reilly, McGregor and Hentschel will provide us with a bloody good spine. We need to surround them by quality midfielders and a couple of capable ruckman and we could be a force.

When it comes to youngsters patience is the key.

[Jerome]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18


1. Why not take it out on McGregor who was torn a new one by Reiwoldt??????:confused:

2. You cannot expect a kid with 4 games of AFL experience to be the answer. If you think Hentschel will keep the likes of Lynch and Tredrea quiet this year then you are very much mistaken cos it ain't gonna happen. Playing Hentschel won't make us any better in defence this year but will help in the long run. He won't make it worse than last years but he won't make it better either.

3. The only thing you could have taken out of last year's SANFL final series about Hentschel is that he is a capable as a backman and is improving. Pinning our hopes on a youngster with limited experience at the senior lever is way too much to ask. Its just wishful thinking.

4. BTW, who do you think IS the answer. I honestly don't see a player on our list who can help us out in the area that you are talking about.

1. From my first post in this thread - "Nick Riewoldt carved us up. I liked his game a lot!

Bass and Kenny should have straightened us up and sorted the mess out."

I havent missed out Kenny.

2. So why is he playing there then? How does it help us improve in the finals which is what we need to do?

I never said he could beat a Tredrea or Lynch. I'm saying the opposite really.

As I have said I call it as I see it. It's not a matter of picking on anyone or being impatient or over reacting. I have given an honest assesment of what I saw on the day.

3. As i said I know what you are saying about his lack of experince at AFL level. For mine, he needs to show more.

4. The one guy who could be a goer is on the rookie list. As for the rest...today didnt fill me with confidence.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by sir_dan
Perrie will play for my beloved Panthers again this year on todays efforts. He will never play for your beloved Panthers again. He is a Rooster now:p

[Jerome]

Originally posted by sir_dan

Perrie will play for my beloved Panthers again this year on todays efforts.

Hate to burst your bubble Sir, but Perrie is no longer with the Panthers. He's with North Adelaide now.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Jerome
2. So why is he playing there then? How does it help us improve in the finals which is what we need to do?

I never said he could beat a Tredrea or Lynch. I'm saying the opposite really.

As I have said I call it as I see it. It's not a matter of picking on anyone or being impatient or over reacting. I have given an honest assesment of what I saw on the day.

3. As i said I know what you are saying about his lack of experince at AFL level. For mine, he needs to show more.

4. The one guy who could be a goer is on the rookie list. As for the rest...today didnt fill me with confidence.

2. because we need a succession play for whe Nigel retires. We need someone who can come in and hold his own in 2005. Not be as good as Nigel but to be competent enough at AFL level.

You haven't said he can beat those guys but by the way you carry on one can't help but feel that you expect him to which is a HUGE ask.

3. Why do you say he needs to show more. Tell me a a player on our squad who in recent times shoed more than Henschel in his 4th AFL game. McGregor didn't. Perrie Didn't. No KPP does. Cut the kid some slack your expectatios are way to high even if he was taken at #1 in the National Draft

4. Parker wouldn't be any better than Hentschel. In fact I would guarantee it that he would be caught on a couple of occasion today where Hentschel got out of trouble.

As I said if you expect a youngster to come in and solve our problems in defence from the word go you are barking up a wrong tree.

[Jerome]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Yes without the leadership and experience of Smart and Hart, there appeared to be no defensive "general" controlling the backline. McGregor has to impose himself more on the game, and lead the defence - thats what all good CHB's do.
For me he's too introverted/passive.

Agree on Kenny. Then there is Bass who can be too full on and produces stupid mistakes at times. They're a bit uneven and really shows how well Smart and Hart seem to balance these two out.

As for today, it was a big chance for them both to step up as team leaders. With around 200 games experince between them they should have been much sharper.

[PAfolwr]

This post is slightly off topic, but IMO these type of games can be overanalyzed .
Don't get me wrong, I wish Port had won last year's Wizard Cup, and again this year, but that is not the No 1 focus until you get to the semis and beyond.
When watching last nights game, I wasn't interested at all with Wanganeen, Wilson, Tredrea etc. The only things that were of interest were the new gameplan. How having Chad Cornes at CHB impacted on our forward structure, having a look at Gillham, White, Chaplin, Salopeck (because of his injury) etc.
Overall, happy that it appears we are getting away from our chipping game, Gillham looks the goods (we will need a young tall or two at back soon), and even though Cornes would make a good CHB I fear it will stuff up our forward structure and put too much pressure on White before he is ready.
We need a new midfielder or three, and Sal and Dom did ok.
That is about all one can take away from last night's game.

wrt today's game, some of the points of interest for me were
1. Alterations to gameplan__Not sure if there are any.
2. You need young talls, and Hentschell went a long way towards one of those spots.
3. You forward line__Bzzz. Fail. Carey is past it. Parry is not good enough to be the main man. Welsh showed signs, but all in all not much has changed from last year. Still lots to work on.
4. Ruckmen__Hudson a big plus.
5. Midfield__didn't care. It was strong last year, and will be strong again this year.

Apart from that, your usuals did what they usually do, albeit some are a bit rusty. Ricciuto did some strong work when he came on, Johncock showed some class, Burns has a brain that is too quick for himself at times and occasionally cannot communicate with his team-mates, McLeod did some of his runs, etc etc. But really who cares about these players at the moment.

Really, the biggest disappointment about losing last night's game is that now I will not get to see any more practice games. Not happy. :(
The same thing will happen to you lot now that the Crows get to play around the place.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by PAfolwr
This post is slightly off topic, but IMO these type of games can be overanalyzed .
Don't get me wrong, I wish Port had won last year's Wizard Cup, and again this year, but that is not the No 1 focus until you get to the semis and beyond.
When watching last nights game, I wasn't interested at all with Wanganeen, Wilson, Tredrea etc. The only things that were of interest were the new gameplan. How having Chad Cornes at CHB impacted on our forward structure, having a look at Gillham, White, Chaplin, Salopeck (because of his injury) etc.
Overall, happy that it appears we are getting away from our chipping game, Gillham looks the goods (we will need a young tall or two at back soon), and even though Cornes would make a good CHB I fear it will stuff up our forward structure and put too much pressure on White before he is ready.
We need a new midfielder or three, and Sal and Dom did ok.
That is about all one can take away from last night's game.

wrt today's game, some of the points of interest for me were
1. Alterations to gameplan__Not sure if there are any.
2. You need young talls, and Hentschell went a long way towards one of those spots.
3. You forward line__Bzzz. Fail. Carey is past it. Parry is not good enough to be the main man. Welsh showed signs, but all in all not much has changed from last year. Still lots to work on.
4. Ruckmen__Hudson a big plus.
5. Midfield__didn't care. It was strong last year, and will be strong again this year.

Apart from that, your usuals did what they usually do, albeit some are a bit rusty. Ricciuto did some strong work when he came on, Johncock showed some class, Burns has a brain that is too quick for himself at times and occasionally cannot communicate with his team-mates, McLeod did some of his runs, etc etc. But really who cares about these players at the moment.

Really, the biggest disappointment about losing last night's game is that now I will not get to see any more practice games. Not happy. :(
The same thing will happen to you lot now that the Crows get to play around the place. I think you put it in a nutshel my friend.

I don't really give a rats clacker about how our proven player went (unless they had shockers). The thing I was looking for is who of the youngsters will show good signs and how will our recruits fare in their fisrt AFL games with us. Overall some encouraging signs.

I also wanted to see how we will deliver the ball to our forwards and the changes to our game plan. We deliered it the sae way as we did in last 3 seasons. The game plan was non existant. The only thing I picked up on is that we tried to implement you "old" game style by chipping around, going short and bringing the ball to our forward line slowly. I would much rather stick to long direct play even if we do bomb it long to the forwards.

We must use the centre corridor. Going up and down the flanks really gives me the ****s.

[Jerome]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
2. because we need a succession play for whe Nigel retires. We need someone who can come in and hold his own in 2005. Not be as good as Nigel but to be competent enough at AFL level.

You haven't said he can beat those guys but by the way you carry on one can't help but feel that you expect him to which is a HUGE ask.

3. Why do you say he needs to show more. Tell me a a player on our squad who in recent times shoed more than Henschel in his 4th AFL game. McGregor didn't. Perrie Didn't. No KPP does. Cut the kid some slack your expectatios are way to high even if he was taken at #1 in the National Draft

4. Parker wouldn't be any better than Hentschel. In fact I would guarantee it that he would be caught on a couple of occasion today where Hentschel got out of trouble.

As I said if you expect a youngster to come in and solve our problems in defence from the word go you are barking up a wrong tree.

I havent carried on at all.

I dont expect him to beat those guys. I realise the size of the task. As I said though, with his flaws someone will pick up on them and that is what a smart opposition coach would do. Put a player on him to play off his weaknesses. He has a chance to work on them now and negate that from happening. If he doesnt work on the physical side of his game, hes adding to our problems IMO.

As for a comparision with someone in our recent squad, from memory Bass was handy early on in 98. Yes I know he was at melbourne but TH has been on an AFL list for a few years now as well.

I have cut him some slack. Read my first post in this thread today. My expecations of him arent that great - that's pretty obvious.

I'm not the guy saying he will be a star, or how great his skills are or how he needs that one AFL game to break through. I've said almost the opposite but I've been pretty reasonable and constructive about it.

I'm hardly barking up the wrong tree. People have called me on my statements and I have answered them.

Never said I expected him to solve our problems - those are your words. But while he is in defence its fair to assess him on how or if he could fix them.

[ant]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18


3. Why do you say he needs to show more. Tell me a a player on our squad who in recent times shoed more than Henschel in his 4th AFL game. McGregor didn't. Perrie Didn't. No KPP does. Cut the kid some slack your expectatios are way to high even if he was taken at #1 in the National Draft



I think that's because we keep reading from some posters on this board how great a player Potential is ;)

I actually worked today's game so I didn't get to see too much of it (yet), but in fact from what I've seen, and as others have pointed out, Potential wasn't too bad, and in fact showed a bit of *ahem* poise *cough* (bar the bit at the end). So you might be onto something Stiffy!

But Jerome raises valid points......we'll just have to see how Potential continues to develop.....

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
...The only thing I picked up on is that we tried to implement you "old" game style by chipping around, going short and bringing the ball to our forward line slowly. I would much rather stick to long direct play even if we do bomb it long to the forwards.

We must use the centre corridor. Going up and down the flanks really gives me the ****s.
To be honest, the Crows did seem "indecisive" at times, but I didn't pick it to be a deliberate plan.
For your sake I hope that you are wrong on this count, because "our" gameplan is a pain in the proverbial. It is brilliant when it works, but has a tendency to fall apart in tight games.

[dyertribe]

I only saw the second half but that was enough. Same old pussy sideways pass the buck gameplan that won't win us a bottle Old Spice in a primary school lucky dip.

I'll leave you with a mathematical equation:

Luke Ball + Nick Riewoldt = Kicked our arse.

[Munga]

Hey guys. From a saints perspective, one young player stood out for me the whole day. Didn't know who he was but remembered his number and just looked it up, and instantly know what all the fuss is about! Mr Potential Henchell. Looked really really good. Showed poise and good judgement, and looks like he has some height. He should be in your 22 this year. He really stayed in my mind, a classy looking player.

Cheers.
BTW Go Saints! :D

[dyertribe]

While our Hayden Skipworth continues to remind me of Kristian Bardsley.

[Fergus]

Originally posted by PAfolwr
This post is slightly off topic, but IMO these type of games can be overanalyzed .
Don't get me wrong, I wish Port had won last year's Wizard Cup, and again this year, but that is not the No 1 focus until you get to the semis and beyond.
When watching last nights game, I wasn't interested at all with Wanganeen, Wilson, Tredrea etc. The only things that were of interest were the new gameplan. How having Chad Cornes at CHB impacted on our forward structure, having a look at Gillham, White, Chaplin, Salopeck (because of his injury) etc.
Overall, happy that it appears we are getting away from our chipping game, Gillham looks the goods (we will need a young tall or two at back soon), and even though Cornes would make a good CHB I fear it will stuff up our forward structure and put too much pressure on White before he is ready.
We need a new midfielder or three, and Sal and Dom did ok.
That is about all one can take away from last night's game.

wrt today's game, some of the points of interest for me were
1. Alterations to gameplan__Not sure if there are any.
2. You need young talls, and Hentschell went a long way towards one of those spots.
3. You forward line__Bzzz. Fail. Carey is past it. Parry is not good enough to be the main man. Welsh showed signs, but all in all not much has changed from last year. Still lots to work on.
4. Ruckmen__Hudson a big plus.
5. Midfield__didn't care. It was strong last year, and will be strong again this year.

Apart from that, your usuals did what they usually do, albeit some are a bit rusty. Ricciuto did some strong work when he came on, Johncock showed some class, Burns has a brain that is too quick for himself at times and occasionally cannot communicate with his team-mates, McLeod did some of his runs, etc etc. But really who cares about these players at the moment.

Really, the biggest disappointment about losing last night's game is that now I will not get to see any more practice games. Not happy. :(
The same thing will happen to you lot now that the Crows get to play around the place.

Good post PAfolwr - I think you have summed it up well. When I watched and went through the results for all games the main thing I am looking for is what is different from last year, not confirmation of what we already know.

Not much seems to have changed with the Crows indirect style despite plenty of talk about it. It is interesting to see how players revert to old habits when the pressure is put on. Some of the choices for delivery into the forward line were terrible and we were trying to hard to find Carey when he wasn't in the best spot. Perrie needs to push himself into a game when Carey is playing as well - no good sitting back and not presenting himself like he does when Carey isn't playing.

Thankfully a few of the younger guys stepped up a bit but there's a long way to go.

[ok.crows]

Not in the game:

Bode, Shirley, Stenglein, Burns, Bassett, S Stevens.

OK only at times:
Roo, Burton, Perrie (when Carey wasn't on), Carey (only a couple of good things, waste of space at other times), McGregor (got caught out of position every time there was a rebound turnover, OK otherwise), Massie, Edwards (rusty), Gallagher (only one to give some drive out of defence - got caught out on the rebound plays though), Hudson (mis-directed the ball), Biglands (couldn't deal with the lack of a run-up).

OK most of the time they were on:
Goodwin, McLeod, Skipworth, Hentschel (apart from a few brain fades).

Poor aspects:
1. Moved the ball far too slowly.
2. No run & rebound out of defence.
3. Hesitant, short & wide.
4. Ball handling not sharp, not up to standard.
5. Too many players standing out of contests waiting for someone else to go in & get the pill.
6. Not enough marking power.
7. Bombed it into the forward-line still.
8. Inaccurate foot passes.
9. Slow & poor decision making.
10. Did not trust each other.
11. Lack of talking.
12. No effective counter to the Saints flood tactics.

[raboyle]

They could have at least tried to get a couple of nine-pointers.

Oh well... back to Adelaide United for their finals campaign. ;)

[noddy]

Would have to agree with nearly most of the comments posted.

What worried me most was our lack of leadership in the back lines especially from Bassett & with Smart retiring next year that will leave only Benny Hart to show the way so hopefully someone else will step up this year.

Another big worry was our lack of muscle & second/third effort from the mid-field (although Hudson did try) at the stoppages & seeing this area in the last few years was our main strength it only goes to show what Bickley & Clarke meant to our midfield & how hard Bicks is going to be missed.

How the heck could R Burns be on a wing before young Reilly & for that matter how could he get a start before young Schuback ??

On sundays performance it looks like our coaching skills & game plan have taken a backwood step & improvement would have to be immense on what was put on display against a more confident & accomplished side in Saint Kilda, well done to the Saints.

[Jars458]

We put our best side out there and were thrashed for three quarters.

A terrible performance with very few highlights.

Hudson was ok, Gallagher ran well but got hurt on the way back and Reilly was great once he came on.

Welsh tried hard and was hard at the ball. That clash with Hudgton was a ripper by both players but of course Walls could only talk of Maxy.

Hentschell was solid but has no left side whatsoever which cost us at least two goals through turnovers

Burns was terrible, as was Ayres coaching.

Perrie led under the ball.

Carey tried those lameass half strenght kicks that never went to anyone

Skipworth shirked the contest a number of times

[napsyd]

:(

Its all been said, but here's my two cents.

Some of the youngsters showed a fair bit. Some with doubts over their heads played handy games, ie Skippy, Gags and Mr Potential all showed they can be valuable contributors. Hudson will be more than handy and Reilly has stepped up further.

Defensively we are ****e without Sir Ben and to a lesser extent Smarty. Our defense also relies on our midfield dominance, when that is not there we are very fragile. Very disturbing.

Crap game plan as discussed. Ayres is still a one trick coach. Slow to make changes and then they are generally the wrong ones.

Carey took up where he finished up last year, nuff said. And he clearly tends to stiffle Perrie, who was 100% better once Carey was benched.

Can someone please remind me why we bother playing Burns? I've said it before, he should not play in the tri colours this year without phenominal SANFL form. And God, if he must be played, play him in the forward pocket! This stuff doesn't take Einstein!!

Did someone say that Bode played? Could have fooled me.

The other senior players were generally OK, it is February after all.

Very early days, but very disturbing performance by some of our players and our coaching staff.

[naughty monkey]

Originally posted by ok.crows
Not in the game:

Poor aspects:
1. Moved the ball far too slowly.
2. No run & rebound out of defence.
3. Hesitant, short & wide.
4. Ball handling not sharp, not up to standard.
5. Too many players standing out of contests waiting for someone else to go in & get the pill.
6. Not enough marking power.
7. Bombed it into the forward-line still.
8. Inaccurate foot passes.
9. Slow & poor decision making.
10. Did not trust each other.
11. Lack of talking.
12. No effective counter to the Saints flood tactics.

Not having seen the game yet, this sounds as if we have started the year just as we finished it.

After watching Freo Friday night we'll be very lucky to get within 10 goals if they play as hard as that again.

[PrideOf]

I thought Hudson did okay. I'm not sure why the Advertiser bagged him so much ... it's his first game at this level FFS.

Good to see a big man, named Ben, with the numbers 1 and 3 on his back actually wanting to do the work. A refreshing change.

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by napsyd
Did someone say that Bode played? Could have fooled me.

Bode really concerns me & I have serious doubts as to whether he is in our best-22. Said a while back that I wouldn't be surprised if he is traded at the end of 2004.

The thing that concerned me most yesterday was our forward line without M Stevens could struggle again in 2004 like it did in parts of 2003. We need consistent performances by Carey, Perrie, S Stevens & Welsh. Only the later put up his hand yesterday.

Confident our midfield will return to its normal dominance once Roo & Birdman regain full fitness. Also, defence should be OK with Benny back from injury & Edwards returning to the backline.

[dyertribe]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Bode really concerns me & I have serious doubts as to whether he is in our best-22.

Exactly why I thought he wasn't worth a second round pick in that mammoth debate awhile back. He looks off the pace and disinterested. Has to decide fairly quickly whether he wants to continue being an AFL footballer.

[marvin]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18

3. Why do you say he needs to show more. Tell me a a player on our squad who in recent times shoed more than Henschel in his 4th AFL game. McGregor didn't. Perrie Didn't.

Just for the record - in Kenny's 4th AFL game (playing CHF vs Hawthorn, and not in the pyjama footy season) he had 13 possessions, 7 marks and a goal. In fact, he kicked a goal in each of his first 5 games, averaging 10+ touches, 5 marks and a couple of hitouts. He showed a bit early in his career, before sliding back a bit.

In Perrie's 4th AFL game had 11 possessions, 2 marks and 2 tackles.

Hentschel looked good, but I'm not sold yet. Heck, it's only pyjama footy - Ben Marsh took 3 marks in the first quarter on Friday night, and one of them was even contested. I for one am still sitting firmly on the fence with my opinion of Trent.

[marvin]

One further thing that yesterday convinced me of is that we can't have Stenglein and Shirley in the same 22. They play the same role. One or t'other is needed - but not both together.

In addition, the performance of the team is inversely proportional to the amount of hair product in use for any given match.

[Mong]

Originally posted by naughty monkey
Not having seen the game yet, this sounds as if we have started the year just as we finished it.

That's exactly what it looked like. The word that comes to mind is STALE. At the start of a new season I look for signs of evolution. There were none, it was the same old, same old.

Same old predictable forward structure. Same predictable slow movement forward.

We've got some very talented and exciting players. It seems like they are on a leash and are not allowed to use their attacking flair.

We need an injection of new ideas and that doesn't include playing Ronnie in the midfield.


Mong

[Stiffy_18]

This is from the club website.

Goodwin identifies trouble spots
5:26:37 PM Mon 23 February, 2004
Alan Shiell
afl.com.au
Adelaide must lift in the midfield and be cleaner and more direct with its delivery to the forwards, according to experienced midfielder Simon Goodwin, one of the Crows’ deputy vice-captains.

Goodwin described Sunday’s 13-point loss to St Kilda at AAMI Stadium as ‘frustrating and disappointing’, and he conceded the Crows’ attitude could have been surprisingly deficient.

“It’s not the way the Adelaide footy club wants to play its footy this year,” he said before training on Monday. “It certainly wasn’t the greatest start but we’ve got three weeks to work on it before round one.

“I just don’t think the playing group rocked up to play the way we know we can play. If you don’t do that and are 10 per cent off the way you want to play, then you don’t perform.

“Every game we go into we want to win, and obviously when you lose you are disappointed. I think the disappointment came from the way we went about it and the way we played.

“The first time you get to show your stuff against an opposition and you’ve had three or four months of hard training and you perform like that … it’s certainly not the way we want to perform throughout the year.

“We need to prepare ourselves the way we know we can play and just make a few minor adjustments to our game plan, and hopefully over the next three weeks we can get it right.

“I think we’re heading in the right direction. It’s just a matter of implementing it on the day.”

Goodwin said Adelaide’s normal match review on Monday morning had identified areas where players needed to improve.

“We’re 100 per cent sure of our game plan and where we’re heading with it. We’re positive and we know it’s the right game plan. We didn’t perform it very well (against the Saints) and I think our whole effort around the ball and our skills let us down completely throughout the whole day.”

Asked what positives the Crows took out of the loss, Goodwin said: “A few young guys certainly played well – Trent Hentschel and James Gallagher down back played really well and Brent Reilly played well when he came on.

“We clicked into gear for a while in the last quarter but the horse had already bolted. There were some positives there in the last quarter (in which Adelaide outscored St Kilda 35 points to 16) and that’s something we can take into this week (against Fremantle).

“We need to go full-on to try to win a few games before we head into the season, so I’m sure we’ll be playing our best-possible side and our best players will be looking to get into some form before round one.”

Goodwin said he was ‘sure’ Wayne Carey would play in the next three practice matches before the Crows’ premiership-season opener against the Kangaroos at the MCG on Sunday, March 28.

“Wayne wants to get as much footy as possible under his belt before round one,” he said. “For him to have a big year, we certainly need him to do that.

“Wayne’s pre-season has been outstanding. The way he’s moving, he’s 50 per cent better than what he did last year. I think if he continues to do that – and he’s a class player – he’ll be crucial part to our success this year.”

Veteran Adelaide defenders Nigel Smart (Achilles) and Ben Hart (calf) are expected to have their first pre-season workouts under match conditions this week, by playing a half each for either the Crows or their SANFL clubs – Smart with South Adelaide, Hart with North Adelaide. The thing in bold might be a bit of a worry. If thats was our game plan against St. Kilda then we are in strife:(

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
This is from the club website.

The thing in bold might be a bit of a worry. If thats was our game plan against St. Kilda then we are in strife:(
Stiffy I think (well bloody hope!) that they knew their game plan, but just didn't follow it for whatever reason.

[topjars]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
For the life of me I cannot understand why the hell would the coaching staff oblige. (Placing Ronnie on the wing)

Thats coz hes got pictures of Ayresy at Geelong

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Stiffy I think (well bloody hope!) that they knew their game plan, but just didn't follow it for whatever reason. I hope you are right because that thing we called a game plan against St. Kilda is a load of you know what.

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by PrideOf
I thought Hudson did okay. I'm not sure why the Advertiser bagged him so much ... it's his first game at this level FFS.

Good to see a big man, named Ben, with the numbers 1 and 3 on his back actually wanting to do the work. A refreshing change.
Have you got a link?

[topjars]

If we are to go more direct weve got a chance of improving.

ie why wouldnt you go for goal from fifty out? A couple of times yesterday kicking to the southern end we frigged around kicking across the ground? :confused: Was there a wind?

Its got me ****ed - The plan (or how it was implemented )stinks. Its vital we get off to a win in Round 1:mad:

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by PAfolwr
Have you got a link? Didn't bag him so much but had a couple of sentences that were a bit out of place. I was pretty happy with his performance. Pitty he is not 5 years younger.:(

http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/footy03/story_page/0,8747,8761275%255E21544,00.html

Like Stevens, ruckman Ben Hudson, recruited from VFL club Werribee, struggled in his Cup debut for Adelaide.

He got his hands on the ball 14 times at ruck contests but many of his hit-outs went to the opposition

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Bode really concerns me & I have serious doubts as to whether he is in our best-22. Said a while back that I wouldn't be surprised if he is traded at the end of 2004.

The thing that concerned me most yesterday was our forward line without M Stevens could struggle again in 2004 like it did in parts of 2003. We need consistent performances by Carey, Perrie, S Stevens & Welsh. Only the later put up his hand yesterday.

Confident our midfield will return to its normal dominance once Roo & Birdman regain full fitness. Also, defence should be OK with Benny back from injury & Edwards returning to the backline.

Good post.
Bode, if he has a bad year, its 2out 3, goodbye, as he will hopefully have some trade value.
He's too slow, doesn't try and stay on his feet, and he'sa short to medium kick.

The thing everyone admires about M.Stevens is his fearless attack on the ball. We're just missing players, forward, midfield and defensively, with a bit of mongel and fearless attack on the ball. Bode was good, so too Sugar and Bicks, but who's coming through to replace them?

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Didn't bag him so much but had a couple of sentences that were a bit out of place. I was pretty happy with his performance. Pitty he is not 5 years younger.:(

http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/footy03/story_page/0,8747,8761275%255E21544,00.html

Report was pretty accurate. However for a first game player at his age, great effort, and he will get better at finding our players with his taps and using his body, even better than he did yesterday.
He was certainly more impressive than Biglands.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Report was pretty accurate. However for a first game player at his age, great effort, and he will get better at finding our players with his taps and using his body, even better than he did yesterday.
He was certainly more impressive than Biglands. I would agree that his tap work needs work but I cannot agree that he struggled in his debut. He was one of only a handful that showed a bit to get us excited. He has got plenty of grunt. I have always said that you can teach a ruckman how to tap. I don't know if his taps went down to the oppositon because they were misdirected or because Saint got inside their man and got first to the fall of the ball. I guess its a bit of both.

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I would agree that his tap work needs work but I cannot agree that he struggled in his debut. He was one of only a handful that showed a bit to get us excited. He has got plenty of grunt. I have always said that you can teach a ruckman how to tap. I don't know if his taps went down to the oppositon because they were misdirected or because Saint got inside their man and got first to the fall of the ball. I guess its a bit of both.
I love players who genuinely give you 100%.
He seemed so intent of making a contest at ruck duals, he forgot once he got his hand to the ball, he had to tap it to someone :)
No they were mis-directed, but yes as his confidence grows so will the 2nd part of rucking; doing something with the ball.
Also the midfield has to learn his way of rucking as well, and it will take the PS matchs for both to learn about each other style.
Even when he was obviously spent, he kept the effort and head up - thats something you can work with.
:)

[Ozzie]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Didn't bag him so much but had a couple of sentences that were a bit out of place. I was pretty happy with his performance. Pitty he is not 5 years younger.:(

http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/footy03/story_page/0,8747,8761275%255E21544,00.html

Capel is an idiot, Hudson is a player, I get annoyed with this bloke . In fact him and Rucci are both twits, I am sure they watch a different game to the rest of us.:confused:

[spindoctor]

Yes, Hudson didn't have much trouble getting his hands to the ball and I love his attitude - he was always making a second effort. AFC finally may have unearthed a rough gem out of the draft dirt.

Bode has this ugly kick across his body that he uses way too much and it makes him inclined to miss the target by a fair margin. However he is a good player, and we should wait before judging.

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Didn't bag him so much but had a couple of sentences that were a bit out of place. I was pretty happy with his performance. Pitty he is not 5 years younger.:(

http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/footy03/story_page/0,8747,8761275%255E21544,00.html
Sounds like he may have made his mind up to bag him before the game even started.
He has a bit of Primus look about him. ie he looks like a ruckman should. He is a big bloke and behaved accordingly, plus can take a mark and tried to get involved in general play.
If that wasn't a debut for a gamble to be happy about, I dunno what is.
He may not be that young but, if he comes on, he still has quite a few more years left.

Again I didn't see the last quarter, but for the first three IMO the above statements are correct, and he is wrong about the disappointing bit.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by spindoctor
Bode has this ugly kick across his body that he uses way too much and it makes him inclined to miss the target by a fair margin. However he is a good player, and we should wait before judging. I like Bode at the bottom of the packs getting a hard ball and handballing it out to one of our midfielders. I guess he is one of those players I would rather he handball than kick it.

He is a handy player but this year he needs to get back to his 2002 form if we are to be genuine contender.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by PAfolwr
Sounds like he may have made his mind up to bag him before the game even started.
He has a bit of Primus look about him. ie he looks like a ruckman should. He is a big bloke and behaved accordingly, plus can take a mark and tried to get involved in general play.
If that wasn't a debut for a gamble to be happy about, I dunno what is.
He may not be that young but, if he comes on, he still has quite a few more years left.

Again I didn't see the last quarter, but for the first three IMO the above statements are correct, and he is wrong about the disappointing bit. A while ago you said that to you he was the most interesting of our recruits and you were looking forward to having a good look at him. By the sound of your post you are a bit of an instant fan:p

[macca23]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
A while ago you said that to you he was the most interesting of our recruits and you were looking forward to having a good look at him. By the sound of your post you are a bit of an instant fan:p

He might well be Stiffy, and so am I. Hudson is raw, really raw. But, geez, he has a fair crack at it doesn't he. You can work with a player who wants to do it.

He'll make the grade IMO. He'll be our back-up this year, which is what we were after, and the AFC can work on the finer points of ruckwork with him in the background to get him ready for when his time in the sun does come.

He's a very pleasant surprise.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by macca23
He might well be Stiffy, and so am I. Hudson is raw, really raw. But, geez, he has a fair crack at it doesn't he. You can work with a player who wants to do it.

He'll make the grade IMO. He'll be our back-up this year, which is what we were after, and the AFC can work on the finer points of ruckwork with him in the background to get him ready for when his time in the sun does come.

He's a very pleasant surprise. After 2 games I have seen him in, he has won me over.

I wonder if he can play a key defensive position against someone line Lynch:eek: :o

BTW, did you hear Kerls on 5AA from his hospital bed?????? He really likes Hudson and he reckons Hentschel will be a very good player for us in time. Kerls reckons Carey is in for a big year.

Poor old Kerls, fractures of the head and all.

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
A while ago you said that to you he was the most interesting of our recruits and you were looking forward to having a good look at him. By the sound of your post you are a bit of an instant fan:p
Part of the reason for really wanting to watch the game was to see how he went. I thought he could have been given even more responsibility given it was round 1 Wiz, but not to be.

wrt previous posts on the subject, I thought that the Crows needed a ready made ruckman to get rid of you know who, as well as young ones to train for the future.
He was the only ready made one that wasn't a reject, and by the sounds of it had improved every year he had played. Definitely worth a gamble.
Good on your recruiting staff for giving him a go.
Let's not forget that at Port we have also picked up two that didn't start playing footy till later in life. Brogan and French. Handy pick ups both of them.

Then again, showdowns will never be the same without Marshy. Next thing Nigel will retire and that'll be it. :D
(Before too many people jump on my back, yes Ol Nige is a good player, but he isn't exactly the king of showdowns.)

[Pred]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Kerls reckons Carey is in for a big year.

Poor old Kerls, fractures of the head and all. You said it.

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by Pred
You said it.
:D

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
This is from the club website.

The thing in bold might be a bit of a worry. If thats was our game plan against St. Kilda then we are in strife:(

If that WAS our game plan (even if poorly executed), then that is a career-terminating plan for Ayres. If he sticks with it & tries to get the players to execute it during the season proper, it will take Ayres a number of weeks (or maybe even a couple of months) to figure it isn't working.

By then the season is kaput. If that happens, the Ayres is kaput also.

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by macca23
He might well be Stiffy, and so am I. Hudson is raw, really raw. But, geez, he has a fair crack at it doesn't he. You can work with a player who wants to do it.

He'll make the grade IMO. He'll be our back-up this year, which is what we were after, and the AFC can work on the finer points of ruckwork with him in the background to get him ready for when his time in the sun does come.

He's a very pleasant surprise.
Thats the thing, isn't it.
Of he players that I have seen so far Hudson and Gillham are the two that have impressed me. Not so much with what they did, but with what they got.
Hudsun seems to have the right stuff to be a ruckman, and you need a ruckman, and Gillham has the right attitude to be a scragging FB, and we need one of those. The rest like details and more weight can be worked on if the right stuff is there.

The other player I had a bit of a look at was Cooney up here, and he did nothing different from the two SANFL finals that I saw him in. He seems to have it all, but nonchalant is probably a good adjective for him. He seems to be used to being the star in the team (juniors), but in the AFL he is going to have to work a bit harder than that.

The one that caught my eye in that game was Farren Ray. I wasn't really watching him, but he did a few things that caught the eye. Not sure if he will get many games this year, but one to watch for the future. Would have liked to have seen the Bulldogs game the other night, but missed out on it. It was on at the same time as the Freo-Essedon game. Does anyone know how he went?

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
...I wonder if he can play a key defensive position against someone line Lynch:eek: :o
...
He appears to have the strength, but Lynch can lead pretty well.
Can Hudson move off the mark?
I still think that with Lynch (and Hall, and Neitz etc) you need someone prepared to take a hit to fill up the space in front of him.