How about this for a twist?

[lacrow]

OK, we've all been talking about Carey vs. Perrie at CHF for quite a while now. I thought I'd take this opportunity to throw out a "radical" manouver and see what you all think.

So, I was thinking that since we are all looking for a big player to bust up packs and make a contest at CHF, why not try Biglands there?

I know many of you think he isn't the greatest at taking a mark around the grounds... and that may be true, but at least he could provide a BIG target and perhaps bring the ball to ground for our crumbers?

That would probably leave us with a problem at ruck but maybe somebody else could fill those shoes for a little while, since we're experimenting.

Any thoughts?

[The Iron Sock]

Biglands can take a mark every now and then and hes not to bad at FB.Maybe give him a Rocca Type Role at CHF? Worth a try:D

[Stiffy_18]

Besause Biglands is not a very good reader of the play and as a result will struggle. Perrie would provide much better contest.

Besides we can't afford to play Biglands anywhere but ruck.

[Kane McGoodwin]

Good to think outside the square at times, but the bottom line is we need Biglands to become our #1 ruckman with the Clarke retiring soon. Don't confuse him with KPP stuff, unless it is an emergency.

[Fergus]

Biglands is not a bad pinch hitter at FF or CHF due to his size and mobility but he hasn't got the footy smarts to make either of them a permanent home.

He needs to be our number 1 ruckman - he has a great leap and is quite quick around the ground. He just needs to stop running underneath the ball and take more marks around the ground.

[beckybiglands]

hmm... he can mark, sorta kick, pretty to look at, but he's way to slow at running... keep him in the ruck, it means his off the field more and does those stretches:eek: ;) :D

[afc9798]

If Hudson comes along as well as he has been to date, it wouldn't hurt to try Biglands at CHF. I still don't think that Perrie is a better reader of the play than Biglands and definitely not better than Carey, but we need someone down there who can straighten us up out of the midfield. Go back to the Saints game and look how quickly we got back into the game when we went direct down the middle. Even if you've got a CHF who is not that mobile, he can still clear the way for the midfield to move in and convert as we saw with Goodwin, Macca etc. Matthew Robran was not a great mark, but he always at least created a contest and took the ball to ground for the midfield players. I would like to see A forward line of Carey, Welsh, Burton and have Biglands (or Perrie) at CHF, with the midfield drilled to be at his feet when the contested mark is likely. Between Bode and Macca they should be able to convert the crumbs.

[Stiffy_18]

I think Hudson would be a better option than Biglands at CHF. Hudson is much tougher and he is a MUCH better mark than Biglands. Hudson would scrap for everything that comes his way at CHF. Not only will he contest but if he doesn't take a mark he will follow on and contest on the ground. I love Hudson because he is a REAL goer.

If it comes down to who out of our ruckman would we play at CHF then Hudson wins hands down. I will go as far as to say that if Hudson stays injury free and continues to work on his tapwork while improving his aerobic capacity, in 2-3 years time he will be one of the best ruckman in the comp.

Big statement I know but thats how highly I think of the bloke. Anyone with such a hunger for a contest and such mobility and good skills for a bloke of that size will always make it.

[afc9798]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I think Hudson would be a better option than Biglands at CHF. Hudson is much tougher and he is a MUCH better mark than Biglands. Hudson would scrap for everything that comes his way at CHF. Not only will he contest but if he doesn't take a mark he will follow on and contest on the ground. I love Hudson because he is a REAL goer.

If it comes down to who out of our ruckman would we play at CHF then Hudson wins hands down. I will go as far as to say that if Hudson stays injury free and continues to work on his tapwork while improving his aerobic capacity, in 2-3 years time he will be one of the best ruckman in the comp.

Big statement I know but thats how highly I think of the bloke. Anyone with such a hunger for a contest and such mobility and good skills for a bloke of that size will always make it.
Agree with the sentiment from what I have seen so far, but he has to keep this up for a longer period to convince me. It would be rare to think that a quality big man got away from the Vic. talent scouts when he was right under their nose every week in the VFL. It does happen sometimes, but would rather see him continue to develop as a ruckman first with maybe some short stints resting in the forward line to gauge his abilities. Being a mature age recruit, we need to see something from him straight away when the H&A games start.

[Kane McGoodwin]

All this talk of Biglands & Hudson at CHF is crazy talk, as we they will be required to ruck (which we don't have an excess of). Sure use them to pinch hit if we are struggling, but starting them as KPP is plain stupid IMO. We have plenty of forwards in our squad to play as KPP - ie. Carey, Perie, S Stevens Hentschel, Rutten, etc.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
We have plenty of forwards in our squad to play as KPP - ie. Carey, Perie, S Stevens Hentschel, Rutten, etc. True but it doesn't help that those KPP are either out of form or a breaking down.

We have a few options to play as key forwards but ifcurrenct cirucmstances are anything to go by we struggle to put a couple of key forwards together that can work WITH each other.

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
True but it doesn't help that those KPP are either out of form or a breaking down.

We have a few options to play as key forwards but ifcurrenct cirucmstances are anything to go by we struggle to put a couple of key forwards together that can work WITH each other.
Bottom line is we have more forward options than ruck options. We should only look at using our ruckmen as KPP as a last resort. We are nowhere near that deperate yet. Sorry, but I just find all this talk of us using designated ruckmen as KPP in the current circumstances just plain crazy!

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Besause Biglands is not a very good reader of the play and as a result will struggle. Perrie would provide much better contest.

Besides we can't afford to play Biglands anywhere but ruck.
Have to agree
Sorry to say, but Perrie has more footy smarts than Biglands.
Would go for Perrie, Hudson, Mcgregor... B4 Biglands

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Would go for Perrie, Hudson, Mcgregor... B4 Biglands What he said.

Although I really wouldn't want to move Kenny from CHB. It would be just about my last option.

Carey at FF would be a dominant force and Perrie at CHF would be given a freedom where he could flourish. I just hope AFC can see this. So Sarge is not the smartest footballer around or the one with best recovery but he can do his job very well at CHF.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Bottom line is we have more forward options than ruck options. We should only look at using our ruckmen as KPP as a last resort. We are nowhere near that deperate yet. Sorry, but I just find all this talk of us using designated ruckmen as KPP in the current circumstances just plain crazy! I don't necesarilly agree. If we do have injuries and I had a choice of playing Watts at CHF or Hudson, I would choose Hudson. We have to think a bit more about the future with out younger players. No point playing them at CHF where they will get belted from pillar to post and could very easily lose confidence. We need to bring them along slowly.

If Perrie doesn't fire against Port he doesn't deserve to hold his spot in the side for round 1. Hudson is far more deserving and since we would have 3 ruckman in th eside one of them would play as a KPP.

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I don't necesarilly agree. If we do have injuries and I had a choice of playing Watts at CHF or Hudson, I would choose Hudson. We have to think a bit more about the future with out younger players. No point playing them at CHF where they will get belted from pillar to post and could very easily lose confidence. We need to bring them along slowly.

If Perrie doesn't fire against Port he doesn't deserve to hold his spot in the side for round 1. Hudson is far more deserving and since we would have 3 ruckman in th eside one of them would play as a KPP.
What have either Hudson or Biglands done to suggest they can make it as a key forward? Firstly, we will need them in ruck during the season as the only other ruckman is Clarke. Why wear them down by playing as a KPP?! We have plenty of natural forwards, many of whom have had proven performances in the past who should play up forward before these ruckmen - ie. Carey, Perrie, S Stevens, Hentschel, Welsh, Burton, Rutten & McGregor. We would need a massive injury run to get desperate to use our ruckmen IMO.

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
What have either Hudson or Biglands done to suggest they can make it as a key forward?

agree entirely. cart meet horse.

[naughty monkey]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I don't necesarilly agree. If we do have injuries and I had a choice of playing Watts at CHF or Hudson, I would choose Hudson. We have to think a bit more about the future with out younger players. No point playing them at CHF where they will get belted from pillar to post and could very easily lose confidence. We need to bring them along slowly.
...<snip>...

If that was the choice for the earlier rounds then I would pick Huddo too. The reason I wouldn't play Watts isn't because I was worried about his confidence, but because he won't be physically ready to handle the pummelling he will get with his style of play.

Reality is Hentschel, Rutten, Freddy, Rutten, S.Stevens etc are all KP, play 'em there. What's the point of having them on the list otherwise?

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by naughty monkey
Reality is Hentschel, Rutten, Freddy, Rutten, S.Stevens etc are all KP, play 'em there. What's the point of having them on the list otherwise? I agree with this but take current situation as an example. Hentschel, Freddy, Rutten are all injured. Scott Stevens is more of a flanker than a KPP, Perrie is out of form. What do you do in this case?????? Do you persist with someone like Perrie even tho he is out of form or do we reward a good performer in Hudson even if we play him in a KP??????

I am not saying play Biglands or Hudson at CHF or FF full time. What I am saying is that we should try Hudson out as a KPP in a forward line so if the need arises we have something to fall back at.

[lacrow]

Now, while I agree that we have other forwards who could be asked to play CHF, let's please stop kidding ourselves about Perrie.

#1. The guy is too small to be effective at CHF. Has anyone seen those arms? They're like pipe cleaners.
And the rest of him is no pack buster either.

#2. I don't know if any of you have noticed but he doesn't actually play at CHF even when he's positioned there by Ayres. Take a good look at last year's games. The only time he ever takes a mark is so far up the ground that he's practically at the spot where the ball is bounced to start play (whatever that spot is called).

Now don't get me wrong, I like the guy and his effort in games is unquestionably excellent, but facts are facts.

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I agree with this but take current situation as an example. Hentschel, Freddy, Rutten are all injured. Scott Stevens is more of a flanker than a KPP, Perrie is out of form. What do you do in this case?????? Do you persist with someone like Perrie even tho he is out of form or do we reward a good performer in Hudson even if we play him in a KP??????

I am not saying play Biglands or Hudson at CHF or FF full time. What I am saying is that we should try Hudson out as a KPP in a forward line so if the need arises we have something to fall back at.
The Crows would have more to gain by playing Perrie & getting him some form or trying S Stevens at CHF than playing Hudson, who has absolutely no history of playing CHF. He is still learning the ruck trade, so why mess with his brain by getting him to learn the hardest position on the ground?! Sorry Stiffy, doesn't matter what you arguements you use, I still find the idea smacking of desperation & stupid.

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by lacrow
Now, while I agree that we have other forwards who could be asked to play CHF, let's please stop kidding ourselves about Perrie.

#1. The guy is too small to be effective at CHF. Has anyone seen those arms? They're like pipe cleaners.
And the rest of him is no pack buster either.

#2. I don't know if any of you have noticed but he doesn't actually play at CHF even when he's positioned there by Ayres. Take a good look at last year's games. The only time he ever takes a mark is so far up the ground that he's practically at the spot where the ball is bounced to start play (whatever that spot is called).

Now don't get me wrong, I like the guy and his effort in games is unquestionably excellent, but facts are facts.
The facts are Perrie held his own as a key forward more often than not last year (how quickly some forget!!) We would not have made the finals if Perrie hadn't improved last year as all our other key forwards were injured much of the time. Perrie has put in extra in the pre-season training to ensure he is in best possible condition. We must persist with him & show faith. I'm sure he will repay it.

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
The facts are Perrie held his own as a key forward more often than not last year (how quickly some forget!!) We would not have made the finals if Perrie hadn't improved last year as all our other key forwards were injured much of the time. Perrie has put in extra in the pre-season training to ensure he is in best possible condition. We must persist with him & show faith. I'm sure he will repay it.
Agree completely, we were raving about his PS, his marking strength, and making big predictions for 2004. Then after a couple og insignificant PS games hes written off?:confused:
Does that mean if he's BOG in the next two games, he's back to being our saviour as a forward:confused:

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Agree completely, we were raving about his PS, his marking strength, and making big predictions for 2004. Then after a couple og insignificant PS games hes written off?:confused:
Does that mean if he's BOG in the next two games, he's back to being our saviour as a forward:confused: I think you are forgeting that Perrie more than anyone else on our squad is more of a confidence player. With Perrie its all about confidence and if he gets in a slump its harder for him to come out of it than for someone like Burtons for example.

Last year Perrie started off the year like a house on fire and was leading goal kicker in the Wizard Cup. That form carried on into the season. Generally if Perrie starts off well he will play well in the coming weeks but if he starts off as slowly chances are he will take a long time to fire up.

I hope that Perrie has as good a season as he did last year (hopefully better) but he hasn't exactly filled anyone with confidence.

I am not worried when a senior player is not firing in practice games because they know how to get themselves up for an important game. When it comes to 2nd tier players or youngsters I would like to see them show some form early and get some confidence before round 1. As, good a season as he had last year, Perrie is still a 2nd tier player.

[Kane McGoodwin]

If Perrie is lacking confidence he isn't going to find it sitting on the bench or playing in the backlines! Even more reason for the coaching staff so show faith in him as a key forward, particularly given it is only a pre-season game.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
If Perrie is lacking confidence he isn't going to find it sitting on the bench or playing in the backlines! Even more reason for the coaching staff so show faith in him as a key forward, particularly given it is only a pre-season game. I think this game against Port will give us the real insight into how the coaching staff rate Perrie. I think sitting him on the bench against Eagles gave Sarge a message that he needs to pull his finger out. I am really looking forward to seeing how Perrie bounces back from this. If he comes out and kicks a bag against Port then my drive to Kadina would not be a waste of time :D

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by lacrow
but facts are facts.

what facts are those???

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I think this game against Port will give us the real insight into how the coaching staff rate Perrie.

Disagree. Round 1 will show us that.

[Fergus]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
Disagree. Round 1 will show us that.
Both sides have come out and said this last trial game is all about getting a settled side ready for round 1. I think this week will tell us a lot about how the coaching staff rate quite a few players.