View Full Version : Do the Poms have rocks in their heads?
Cooldude
6 Apr 2004, 01:42
Some are now shouting that they can win the Ashes next year after a series win against WEST INDIES. Yeah good stuff, beat Bangladesh in the test series and now West Indies, wow, that's some achievement :rolleyes:
Then we'll win 4-0 next year, and they'll start bagging their own team again and say how useless England cricket is :rolleyes:
Brett Li
6 Apr 2004, 02:18
Originally posted by Cooldude
Some are now shouting that they can win the Ashes next year after a series win against WEST INDIES. Yeah good stuff, beat Bangladesh in the test series and now West Indies, wow, that's some achievement :rolleyes:
Then we'll win 4-0 next year, and they'll start bagging their own team again and say how useless England cricket is :rolleyes:
Said or done anything positive in the last week?
bunsen burner
6 Apr 2004, 11:18
Originally posted by Cooldude
Then we'll win 4-0 next year, and they'll start bagging their own team again and say how useless England cricket is :rolleyes: Although I tip the Aussies, I think they're a chance. Making 4-0 comments can only come back and haunt you - and give Aussie supporters the arrogant tag.
bunsen burner
6 Apr 2004, 11:20
What's more, if you can't see that the days of Australia's domination are limited, you have rocks in your head. When Warne and McGrath are gone we just won't be able to replace them and therefore will not be near as good.
The invisible mullet
6 Apr 2004, 11:59
The poms always get excited and have their hopes up before every ashes series. Its hard to know whether they were really very, very good or the windies were just abysmal - its somewhere in between. The real issue for them is whether they can keep Harmison and Jones fit - both these blokes have alot of talent and will give them some real firepower against the Aussies. On the flipside they have some real problems with their batting lineup at the moment - Trescothick has lost it and Vaughan has had a wretched tour.
4-0 seems unlikely (Graeme Yallop anyone) but a victory in the series to Australia would still have to be very short odds.
Cooldude
6 Apr 2004, 12:12
Originally posted by bunsen burner
What's more, if you can't see that the days of Australia's domination are limited, you have rocks in your head. When Warne and McGrath are gone we just won't be able to replace them and therefore will not be near as good.
That's completely off topic? I'm talking about the Poms, not Warne and McGrath. They'll be there at next year's Ashes, which is what we're talking about, not those two's futures.
We can replace McGrath (as we've shown the last 12 months), but we can't replace Warne, but Warne still has a fair few years left in him.
If you wanna talk about players at an end of their careers, Hussain, Thorpe, Butcher are all in their mid 30s, Hussain won't be there next year, Thorpe mightn't be. Recently these three saved England's ass on many occasion, can't see how they can be replaced.
Talking about the likes of Ian Botham (as usual) and a couple of other past England greats, they seem to say they can win before every Ashes series of the past decade, then when England got thumped they'd backflip and bag their own team and say how useless they are, now the very same people are saying they can win again, don't they ever learn?
The invisible mullet
6 Apr 2004, 12:26
Its true they do build up their chances before every ashes series just as they build up Henman's chances every Wimbledon. enables the hacks to then put the boots in when they inevitably fail.
pav_is_god
6 Apr 2004, 19:25
Geez, I've heard that before.
Having said that, Australia's dominance over England won't last forever and this coming series will be difficult. I'm tipping an Aussie 2-0 win with two wash outs.
Booze Hound
6 Apr 2004, 19:57
Originally posted by The invisible mullet
Its true they do build up their chances before every ashes series just as they build up Henman's chances every Wimbledon. enables the hacks to then put the boots in when they inevitably fail.
In the same way I heard soooo many Australians 'talking up' their team before the RWC.
bunsen burner
6 Apr 2004, 19:58
Originally posted by Cooldude
That's completely off topic? I'm talking about the Poms, not Warne and McGrath. They'll be there at next year's Ashes, which is what we're talking about, not those two's futures.
That's debatable.
You're acting like we are a shoe in. I'm saying that our dominance is on the wane. It won't be a case of us turning to crap as soon as Mcgrath and Warne are finished - it will be a slide as they get older. And I'm tipping that slide has already started.
England are going to have to play some very good cricket to knock the aussies over but i'm sure we'll see if they are true contenders when they play the likes on NZ in England this year
Originally posted by Booze Hound
In the same way I heard soooo many Australians 'talking up' their team before the RWC. ???
Considering the way the tournament/final panned out, it was hardly incorrect to say Australia could have won.
As for the English cricket side, I think the series against South Africa showed that they still have a way to go before they'll be good enough to beat the best in the world.
Originally posted by Booze Hound
In the same way I heard soooo many Australians 'talking up' their team before the RWC. I don't think so. Understandably you'd probably be talking to a lot of Ausxsies trying to stick up for themselves in London but really we expected to bow out in the semis.
They said they would beat Australia last series and the series in England before that (and probably the rest before that though i don't specifically remember)
Just makes the first day of the series they had in Bribane all the more laughable :D
The Scarecrow
6 Apr 2004, 22:46
Originally posted by Cooldude
Some are now shouting that they can win the Ashes next year after a series win against WEST INDIES. Yeah good stuff, beat Bangladesh in the test series and now West Indies, wow, that's some achievement :rolleyes:
Then we'll win 4-0 next year, and they'll start bagging their own team again and say how useless England cricket is :rolleyes:
Got to start somwhere, if they can win some more tests get some more confidence, then beat a team like South Africa, they could almost beat the Aussies.
bunsen burner
6 Apr 2004, 23:44
Originally posted by nicko18
I don't think so. Understandably you'd probably be talking to a lot of Ausxsies trying to stick up for themselves in London but really we expected to bow out in the semis. I agree. I don't recall may aussies talking up their chances over here. Most were surprised we got over NZ.
I also remember most Aussies weren't overly upset about it either. Most were smart enough to realise England were the best team throughout the WC and we did well to make the final.
In the same way that I don't think aussies particulalry talked up their team before the rugby world cup (although a fair few talked down England-more out of good manners I think knowing that we'd have been disappointed if they didn't)I haven't read anywhere of anybody here getting carried away & predicting that England will win the next ashes.
Vaughan himslef has said that 2005 may be too soon, although he wasn't defeatist by any means but he felt that maybe by 2007 we might be able to give it a good go.
Of course there's been the usual debate about whether we might be able to deliver the holy grail with this side, rightly or wrongly our Test match cricket is played very much with Ashes series in mind.Perhaps more so by the press than the coaches/players themesleves.
But believe me there's been no tub thumping
& cries of 'bring on the Aussies' that I'm aware of so I think Cooldude needs to get his facts right before attacking us for something we haven't done.
Personally I think we've got a decent pace attack who could do good things together in the future, but the jury must still be out on all of them.Harmison is somewhat bizarely up to no3 in the world rankings & I was bemused to read in a paper yesterday the reporter saying that he was England's banker in much the same way as McGrath is for Australia & Pollock is for SA.My view was that he's got to show that he can do it in the big games against the big teams over a reasonable period of time before stuff like that is said.
Jones could have a big future & Flintoff's bowling seems to be getting better (whilst I still don't reckon he'll ever average much more than 30 with the bat-if that)but the good figures of Hoggard in this series show that we should show caution, he's been abysmal in most of the series he's played since 2002 so was his good showing here down to a poor West Indies, or improved form from him or what I personally beleive-that the codnitions that most of the cricket has been played in this series have helped him enormously.
Even if the pace attack is the real deal, the batting is a worry.Trescothick's shockign technique seems to totally found him out & I fear that Vaughan's great year may have been the peak of his career rather than his true level(he averaged in the 30s before & in the 30s since).
Butcher is still hit or miss & Hussain whilst trying to emulate Geoffrey Boycott in the latter stages of his career will probably call it a day next year anyway.
Thorpe looks good though but we need runs from the wicketkeeper so the sooner that Read is jettisoned the better.
There's not too many decent looking batsmen out there but one who I'm convinced will succeed is Kevin Petierson of Notts, he's actually South African but qulaifies next August & hopefully he won't prove to be another Hick.
Of course the one area that shows no signs of hope is a decent spinner.
But I guess that once Warne & McGrath go, IF our pace attack keeps on improving then we might give Australia a game, I don't think we'll match you for batting but it might come down to our pacemen against your batsmen which is a lot better prospect than it's been for the last 15 years.
London Dave
7 Apr 2004, 00:21
Originally posted by DIPPER
Even if the pace attack is the real deal, the batting is a worry.
Think you hit the nail on the head there Dip, whilst you do need an attack to take 20 wickets, they need the runs on the board too. The present lineup is either aging or not good enough, Vaughn and Thorpe apart. Flintoff will be OK at 6 or 7.
The team Captain has quite rightly said they are aiming to win the next ashes series as that is what the players would really like to achieve above all other things.
Since the Ashes have been Australia's since 1988 you can imagine the English would be quite keen to win them again.
Their comments have been entirely appropriate in the circumstances
I think the series will be a good one but Australia's players in England have an advanrage that England's players in Australia don't have - they have played frequently under the conditions in country cricket.
Hayden, Langer, Ponting (this year), Martyn, Lehmann and Katich have all played County cricket. Add Warne MacGill McGrath and Kasper to that list and its pretty comprehensive.
I think Gillespie is the only major player not to have played country cricket.
Nel Mangle
7 Apr 2004, 21:21
Originally posted by Cooldude
Some are now shouting that they can win the Ashes next year after a series win against WEST INDIES. Yeah good stuff, beat Bangladesh in the test series and now West Indies, wow, that's some achievement :rolleyes:
Then we'll win 4-0 next year, and they'll start bagging their own team again and say how useless England cricket is :rolleyes:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/3599155.stm
Vaughan sounds cautious when asked about the ashes series.
You;re getting angry over nothing so dont throw your toys out of the pram eh
You got two massive chips on you shoulders by the looks of it.
You guys used to have the same attitude in rugby but now the wallabies are englands bitches.lol
Hey im hoping for a good clean ashes series...
sledging doesnt go over the top ,
gillespie gets rid of his offensive mullet,
warne keeps away from drugs,etc,etc.....
are you another 'neighbours' tragic?
Nel Mangle
7 Apr 2004, 21:28
Originally posted by nicko18
are you another 'neighbours' tragic?
what the hell are you talking about eh??
Originally posted by nicko18
are you another 'neighbours' tragic? Nah, he's just another whinging bitch who hasn't seen England beat a "real" cricket side in a series in more than 20 years. I have to say though that having a good England side would be good for cricket................when that happens we will never know!:D
London Dave
7 Apr 2004, 22:11
Originally posted by Mickey
.....hasn't seen England beat a "real" cricket side in a series in more than 20 years.
Whilst being crap in the main for the last 20 years, that period does include 2 series wins (H & A) against Oz, and wins away to Pakistan and Sri Lanka. But then again, braggarts never let facts get in the way of story!
Cooldude
7 Apr 2004, 23:01
Originally posted by Nel Mangle
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/3599155.stm
Vaughan sounds cautious when asked about the ashes series.
You;re getting angry over nothing so dont throw your toys out of the pram eh
You got two massive chips on you shoulders by the looks of it.
You guys used to have the same attitude in rugby but now the wallabies are englands bitches.lol
Hey im hoping for a good clean ashes series...
sledging doesnt go over the top ,
gillespie gets rid of his offensive mullet,
warne keeps away from drugs,etc,etc.....
Obviously didn't see what Ian Botham said? No, I didn't say Vaughan said anything, it's Ian Botham, the bloke who said they were gonna win in 02/03, then bagged the team as pathetic after they lost :rolleyes: He did it many times already
England does as much sledging as anyone, the sad thing is they don't back it up on the field (aka Hussain)
Originally posted by London Dave
Whilst being crap in the main for the last 20 years, that period does include 2 series wins (H & A) against Oz, and wins away to Pakistan and Sri Lanka. But then again, braggarts never let facts get in the way of story!
It's funny but beating Oz in those 2 series didn't mean we weren't crap then just that you lot were even worse than us for that short period.
We came off the 85 series win to be blackwashed 5-0 in the caribbean.
Actually since Hussain took over I don't think we've been the complete crap we were for the previous 15 years or so.
I've had a look at the Test table for the first time in a while & whilst Australia is way out in front & SA is clear in second, there's a pack of India/Pakistan/England/NZ all pretty close.
It wouldn't take a big improvement to pull away from there, we'll get points for winning this series which we lost last time & NZ beat us at home last time so if we win that then we'll get those points, then it's SA in the winter & if we won or even drew that series then suddenly we might find ourselves clear in 3rd place.
It's all ifs I know but there's some cause for optimism.
pav_is_god
9 Apr 2004, 13:29
Originally posted by zull
bring back WG Grace
cos international cricket could always use another cheat...
Brett Li
9 Apr 2004, 19:40
Originally posted by pav_is_god
cos international cricket could always use another cheat...
:o
Brett Li
9 Apr 2004, 19:41
Originally posted by Cooldude
England does as much sledging as anyone, the sad thing is they don't back it up on the field (aka Hussain)
Unlike you eh Cooldude?
Cooldude
9 Apr 2004, 20:12
Originally posted by Brett Li
Unlike you eh Cooldude?
You love going off-topic, don't ya