Scott Calyton just how good a judge is he ???

[STARSHIPTROOPER]

I have raised this before and got attacked from all angles.

Well can someone present a case for Bowdon and Hargrave.

[Libba_39]

Clayton was successful for the Bears/Lions, but overall for us , a failure. The evidence is in our declining performance over the last 4 or 5 years, not just from when Rohde took over.
Admittedly Rohde has made things much worse.
Clayton, for us however, is overrated!

[STARSHIPTROOPER]

Originally posted by Libba_39
Clayton was successful for the Bears/Lions, but overall for us , a failure. The evidence is in our declining performance over the last 4 or 5 years, not just from when Rohde took over.
Admittedly Rohde has made things much worse.
Clayton, for us however, is overrated!

Didnt he have some very early picks at Brisbane. I am interested to know what he did with his middle and late picks. Cooney and ray picked themselves this year.

[Libba_39]

But even Ray has problems with his kicking!
It may not be that easy to iron that out.
Kicking is a vey important part of football.

[Captain Sensible]

I dont think its Clayton. The players he picks have a lot of talent I just think that we are lousy at developing young players.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by localyokel
The players he picks have a lot of talent I just think that we are lousy at developing young players.

Thank you Local :)

[Anja_Nees]

It's ridiculous trying to single out Clayton for our problems. Certainly don't know why you're complaining about Bowden - he was one of our few shining lights today.

The blame falls first and foremost with the players:

-Eagleton made AWFUL mistakes.
-In the words of Denis Commetti, Robbins and Guido should be kicking themselves after today's performance but with their luck they'd probably miss
-Smith's kickout ->What the hell was that!?
-Boyd was consistently slow to react
-Street can't get the ball
-Players couldn't keep their feet


When the game was there to be won, they all capitulated and that's their fault. All of them are physically capable of hitting a target. Hell in times past they have actually done it! But they are mentally weak and don't take responsibility for their actions. They just seem to shrug it off and hope someone else will do the hard work.

[HK_Bulldog]

Originally posted by STARSHIPTROOPER
Didnt he have some very early picks at Brisbane. I am interested to know what he did with his middle and late picks. Cooney and ray picked themselves this year.

Clayton is a master. Not his fault Rhode is a worse coach than Tim Watson.

Clayton picked up Daniel Bradshaw in the 50s, Beau McDonald even later, Chris Scott in the teens. Can't remember others from the top of my head.

Clayton has drafted for us for 5 years now and the only player still not on the list is Colbert (i don't count James as he is mature player selected by Wallace). Apart from Wiggins, I can say with 90% certainty that if we delist any Clayton draftees, another club will pick them up.

[STARSHIPTROOPER]

Originally posted by HK_Bulldog

Clayton has drafted for us for 5 years now and the only player still not on the list is Colbert (i don't count James as he is mature player selected by Wallace). Apart from Wiggins, I can say with 90% certainty that if we delist any Clayton draftees, another club will pick them up.

Been in the job for 5 has he.

Well we have the worst list in the AFL. Can you name me one that we are better than.

[HK_Bulldog]

We have the worst coach in the AFL.
No way known we have the worst list in the AFL. Carlton, Hawthorn, Richmond, Collingwood, Kangaroos, Melbourne, Geelong all have inferior lists.

The oldest Clayton draftee is 22yrs old. Half of those are playing seniors. The other half are going to win Werribee the premiership this year.

[STARSHIPTROOPER]

Originally posted by HK_Bulldog
We have the worst coach in the AFL.
No way known we have the worst list in the AFL. Carlton, Hawthorn, Richmond, Collingwood, Kangaroos, Melbourne, Geelong all have inferior lists.

The oldest Clayton draftee is 22yrs old. Half of those are playing seniors. The other half are going to win Werribee the premiership this year.

Fantasy Land is very popular after another loss with our great list. They cant even kick a simple goal. Such talent we are surely blessed.

[stevebiscuit]

Originally posted by STARSHIPTROOPER
Been in the job for 5 has he.

Well we have the worst list in the AFL. Can you name me one that we are better than.

collingwood and hawthorn

[Ching]

Originally posted by STARSHIPTROOPER
Well we have the worst list in the AFL. Can you name me one that we are better than.
Thats BS, we had Richmond on toast but bad kicking. Our list is better. The list isn't the only thing that counts on the ground.

[STARSHIPTROOPER]

Originally posted by Ching
Thats BS, we had Richmond on toast but bad kicking. Our list is better. The list isn't the only thing that counts on the ground.

No, but the none performance of rudementary skills on the field rests with a player.

And we have the greatest amount of duds than any other team are large number of them are mentally soft and physically inept.

[Borgsta]

yeah that harris guy that he picked up at 71 is a dud.
sack him, sack the coach, sack cameron rose, sack the players and finally sack the club:o

[go harris]

Originally posted by Borgsta
yeah that harris guy that he picked up at 71 is a dud.
sack him, sack the coach, sack cameron rose, sack the players and finally sack the club:o Borgasta you really think Harris is a dud????you are joking ar'nt you

[doggies40]

Originally posted by HK_Bulldog
The oldest Clayton draftee is 22yrs old.

So he didnt pick up mitcha then?

[~PC~]

Scott Calyton just how good a judge is he ???

3 Premierships in a row and a 4th year in the finals coming up - I'd say Brisbane supporters would think he was ok.

[STARSHIPTROOPER]

Originally posted by Sporty Spice
3 Premierships in a row and a 4th year in the finals coming up - I'd say Brisbane supporters would think he was ok.



Jonathan Brown, Mel Michael and a extended salary cap plus mathews he sure is a genius. I would say he has a questionable record when he hasnt had early picks.

[HK_Bulldog]

Originally posted by doggies40
So he didnt pick up mitcha then?

Huh!? Okay, 23 then....
The point I was trying to make is that all Clayton's draftees are still kids yet to enter their prime. Yet they are asked to shoulder a large load because Kleiman could pick his nose.

[STARSHIPTROOPER]

Originally posted by Borgsta
yeah that harris guy that he picked up at 71 is a dud.
sack him, sack the coach, sack cameron rose, sack the players and finally sack the club:o

Harris is promising thats all. He has hopefully a long career to develop that promise
On the other stuff
You have gone of on your own agenda again. Probably should have started another thread.

[rioli17]

Originally posted by Anja_Nees
-Street can't get the ball
-.

pardon me but I had to laugh today, we offered up Hall in the Brown trade and some genius at Dogland in their infinite wisdom declined the offer, sold the grandstand for no kick strett and then ...wait for it went and recruited morgon from port..what for to bolster Werribee....Im glad we hung onto Hally he has improved heaps and gave ol rawlings a decent ol touch up

[Leon]

Originally posted by rioli17
pardon me but I had to laugh today, we offered up Hall in the Brown trade and some genius at Dogland in their infinite wisdom declined the offer, sold the grandstand for no kick strett and then ...wait for it went and recruited morgon from port..what for to bolster Werribee....Im glad we hung onto Hally he has improved heaps and gave ol rawlings a decent ol touch up

Coming from a club that recruits jems like Fiora and Pettifer, I dont really think you're in position to throw stones about recruiting stuff ups.

[~PC~]

Originally posted by Leon
Coming from a club that recruits jems like Fiora and Pettifer, I dont really think you're in position to throw stones about recruiting stuff ups.

Or the fact that between Richo, Campbell, Gasper, Brown and Johnson they've almost spent their entire salary cap.

[rioli17]

Originally posted by Leon
Coming from a club that recruits jems like Fiora and Pettifer, I dont really think you're in position to throw stones about recruiting stuff ups.

nothing wrong with fiora....if half your mob showed the ticker of aaron youd nbe better for it ..alas solariums, waxes and blow waves appear to be the order of the day down at doglands

[rioli17]

Originally posted by Sporty Spice
Or the fact that between Richo, Campbell, Gasper, Brown and Johnson they've almost spent their entire salary cap.

funny you mention that cause with the change we could prob adequately remunerate 30 of your list for their woeful efforts to date

[Bloody-Redhead]

He is a good judge.

As I have said before, our kids haven't progressed beyond what Weribee can develop of them.

THIS IS BECAUSE WE AREN'T SPENDING CASH ($$$$$) TO DEVELOP THEM IN ANY PROFESSIONAL MANNER WHATSOEVER!



Borgsta, lets sack Rose and the board, because everyone knows what Bulldog supporters want, and what is required to make them into members UNLIKE ROSE and THE BOARD!!!

In case you haven't realised since Rose has came in our footy dept has been decimated.

Here is a quote from MR ROSE

' We have opened our arms to the Western suburbs to embrace it, but it seems the Western suburbs haven't embraced us'

This quote was in a local rag (either the Mail or Times circulating the western suburbs) reaction to our membership figures.

Funny:
1) They cut the footy budget to ribbons giving us an uncompetitive product

2) We didn't train in the western suburbs until the regular season

3) We played a practice match in the NT where nowhere could get to

4) We played in SA, and Shepaton as well

5) They move the practice match so a lot of people went to the wrong place

6) The second practice match was played on Friday, meaning most people couldn't go

7) Played at OO at the last moment with no encouragement to get our supporters down there. And those who were there just saw us deliberately drop the game when it was ours (so much for getting the players in a good attitude to the upcoming season after the previous results!)

8) Oh Yeah, and we will lose another home game interstate for 05



If you want to sack the club, don't worry.
In the next month and the first footy month of 05 will dictate if the AFL, for season 06 take us to the 'Boardroom' and get the Donald Trump verdict: 'YOU'RE FIRED!!!'

[Leon]

Originally posted by rioli17
nothing wrong with fiora....if half your mob showed the ticker of aaron youd nbe better for it ..alas solariums, waxes and blow waves appear to be the order of the day down at doglands

Yeah there is something wrong with Fiora. He's crap, and its not just Dogs fans who would say that, believe me, no supporter of any other club rates him.

Speaking of heartless, how come Wayne Campbell didnt front up today? Was it because it was a sunny day and there were a few shadows about?

[Bloody-Redhead]

He wouldn't have happened to have kicked a part of the bar when his mate Ty and Coglan were starting the fight then preceeding to sneak out of the mess.
I know he was disappointed at not being allowed to jump in and all but........

[Anja_Nees]

Originally posted by rioli17
nothing wrong with fiora....if half your mob showed the ticker of aaron youd nbe better for it ..alas solariums, waxes and blow waves appear to be the order of the day down at doglands

Actually, there's something very wrong with Fiora. He's crap.

No wonder you guys trade your early picks. If the best you can manage with top ten picks is VFL fodder like Fiora and Pettifer then you're better off trading them. Hell Brown and Johnson are giving you great service. Of course, the rest of your side, with two or three notable exceptions, simply aren't up to it. So while Johnson, Judas, and Richo drag you up to 12th or 13th this year, you have to live with the knowledge that by the time any decent young players you may have (and it's purely an assumption than you have any) would have been ready to make a decent fist of a finals challenge (with the support of some of the best young talent in the country), Richo will be gone, and Brown and Johnson will be on the wrong side of 30 and headed for retirement.

And the best part is that you are only one and a half wins away from being out of priority pick contention. So all you'll have to show for this year at the end is the fact you will finally be rid of Frawley, and the fact you managed to steer clear of the spoon.

Enjoy your wins, because you're probably about three weeks away from being back under the blowtorch.

For what it's worth, I have no problem with Richmond, but grace is a virtue.

[Anja_Nees]

Originally posted by Leon
Yeah there is something wrong with Fiora. He's crap, and its not just Dogs fans who would say that, believe me, no supporter of any other club rates him.

Speaking of heartless, how come Wayne Campbell didnt front up today? Was it because it was a sunny day and there were a few shadows about?

Geez Leon, didn't see you post there. Must have shown up after the page loaded. Great minds think alike though eh?

[Leon]

Originally posted by rioli17
funny you mention that cause with the change we could prob adequately remunerate 30 of your list for their woeful efforts to date

Its funny how quickly people turn isnt it.

Here's this guy throwing a few stones about our poor effort today (which I dont disagree with), yet not so long ago Richmond dish up abysmal efforts against Melbourne, St Kilda, Geelong and Adelaide, all massive wallopings, 50 points or more, in succession which puts Frawley under intense pressure and the Tigers fans are not happy.

Then all of a sudden they beat Hawthorn by a point, a good win in Sydney and a fighting win by 4 goals against us, and this guy has the nerve to call us woeful.

If we were woeful today, then what were Richmond a few weeks ago?

Hey rioli17, you ever heard the saying "Dont throw stones if you live in glass houses."?

Try and live by that motto when you come and post on our board pal.

[Leon]

Originally posted by Anja_Nees
Geez Leon, didn't see you post there. Must have shown up after the page loaded. Great minds think alike though eh?

Nice work Anja.

[Bloody-Redhead]

"Dont throw stones if you live in glass houses."?

I just love it when someone quotes SURVIVOR :rolleyes:

Tribal council has the following heads on the chopping block:

Muff (after his debut in 04)

Boyd (can't fully stop someone, and not enough attack)

Eagleton (sorry, you are going back to obscurity at the moment)

Giansiracusa (1 game shouldn't get you through 3 weak games)

Croft (Not what we are looking for, find something new at weribee and fast to get a proper farewell)

Hargrave (Need to do a job, and not just float around to assist all the time)


IN:


Minson (just kill someone)

Ray (Get some ground time)

Walsh (can't do worse then Croft at FF today, only you are supposed to be bringing the upside of developing and youth)

Murphy (A few class passes are better then a chunk of space junk disposal into the F50)

Wiggins (You can say 'I have better form then many seniors in our side' - and be correct!)

Jordee (just get the thing and run, if you have disposal for longer it means a lot less time the opponents have disposal)

[Leon]

Originally posted by Bloody-Redhead
"Dont throw stones if you live in glass houses."?

I just love it when someone quotes SURVIVOR :rolleyes:



What? :confused:

[Bloody-Redhead]

:rolleyes: Oh Brother......Shi-ann....Final tribal council....?!?:rolleyes:

[Leon]

Originally posted by Bloody-Redhead
:rolleyes: Oh Brother......Shi-ann....Final tribal council....?!?:rolleyes:

Dude I dont watch Survivor, I have no idea what your talking about.

[Bloody-Redhead]

What I am describing is a dramatisation of what SHOULD happen at Match Committee meetings this week, only in a Survivor background!

What I am saying is this:

When the Axe gets swung there will be winners and losers, and no doubt the losers will be cut that they got dumped somewhere along the line.
The most gracious move was by a loser who got cut (Shi-ann) who didn't abuse and take on the final two (of which one wins major $$$$) about how they were jibbed, and in their opinion back-stabbed

She knew the rules and she lost, and she understood WHY!

What I am saying is that there will be quite a few (namely those mentioned previously) who might (SHOULD) get dropped

Despite the fact that they will chuck a Hissy-Fit they clearly didn't
Out-play, Outlast the winners, so get over it.
The fact is whether those dropped particularly care, or get jacked off at losing their positions, when they should know WHY they got dumped!

Get it???

[Westy_Boy]

Originally posted by STARSHIPTROOPER
Been in the job for 5 has he.

Well we have the worst list in the AFL. Can you name me one that we are better than.
We have the worst group of 23-27 year olds in the league. This is where the core and matchwinners lie in most teams, and the lack of talent in that age group can be directly attributed to the club drafting and trading like shlt between 94-98 (Kleiman).

If you look at Clayton's picks, in the vast majority of cases he gets players at or above the worth of the pick at which they're selected.

Murphy: Pick 13 - he'll easily be in the top 13 (and possibly top 5) in that draft.

Gia: Pick 32 - probably top 20 of the players picked up in that draft.

Hahn- Pick 37 - ditto.

Gilbee- Pick 43 - Probably a touch better than his draft position would suggest.

Bowden - Pick 58 - not even 50 players from that draft are still on AFL lists.

Hargrave - 68 - ditto.

McMahon - Pick 10 - Probably the weakest in terms of position taken, and other players passed up, but still amongst the top 20 from that draft, and in terms of pure talent, probably top 10.

Birss - Pick 26 - about right.

Cross - Pick 56 - Always a speculative pick, but he's doing better than a typical kid selected in the 50's usually does.

Skipper - Pick 70 - As above, taken a year earlier than most thought and considered a 5 year project player at the time.

Power - Pick 10 - Probably between 15-20 in terms of performances to date, but (IMO) has a bit more development left in him than most sitting above him.

Harris - Pick 78 - Shocker of a pick, this was. (Go_Harris, I'm joking - I think he's good)

2002 and 2003 are too early to call.

Sure there are examples of players he could have selected and didn't, but there isn't a recruiting manager in the business who hasn't had a few nightmare picks in their past.

Point the finger elsewhere.

[John Gent]

Originally posted by Westy_Boy


Sure there are examples of players he could have selected and didn't, but there isn't a recruiting manager in the business who hasn't had a few nightmare picks in their past.

Point the finger elsewhere.


Hang on Westy Boy.

You're the same bloke who has been caning everything to do with the Veale deal. Clayton is the RECRUITING MANAGER.

Do you think he had no involvement in the Veale deal?

You can't have it both ways , Pal.

[Westy_Boy]

Originally posted by John Gent
You can't have it both ways , Pal.
That the Veale deal will cost us in the long term, but Clayton is excellent at selecting talent in the draft? How does one effect the other?

If you don't agree with what I'm saying, feel free to put forward a valid point on either topic whenever you feel like it, JG.

[The Doctor]

Good to have ya back Westy

[Borgsta]

I cant believe ppl actually took my post seriously. The yawn smile bullcrap was meant to indicate it was crap.

Westy boy thanks for being the first to mention the woeful 23-27 y.o list at our club and to show others what Claytons picks were in detail. How can anyone seriously say Clayton isnt a great judge. Then again the same person cant even spell Claytons name properly.