View Full Version : I was wrong
The Candy Man
23 May 2004, 19:36
I said we should select Thommo against the Swans .... I was wrong.
I selected the Hawks to beat the Swans ..... I was wrong.
At the start of the year I said the recruitment of Trent Croad was a waste of time. I was wrong, but I don't mind at all being wrong about that one.
Keep proving me wrong Trent. :)
Good to see you wrong onthat last one :)
I think that Croad really loves the club and it brings the best out of him when he puts on the Brown and Gold.
He has been in our best so far this year.
andrew coombs
24 May 2004, 20:32
Before we anyone starts putting Trent up for All Australian honours take a look at the entire match yesterday. I counted six clangers that in the end were crucial in deciding the result. His lack of any discernable footy intelligence will forever plague him and us I'm afraid.
The Candy Man
24 May 2004, 20:53
I appreciate what you are saying Andrew, but my biggestg problem with Croad was his perceived lack of attitude. At least he is giving it his best shot, pity a few more can't say the same.
I can handle the odd mistake just so long as the effort is made.
andrew coombs
24 May 2004, 21:05
Trent does try hard, there is no doubt about that, but if having a go when playing in the AFL is something to be lauded we are in terrible strife. After 7 years of League footy I have given up on Trents maturation as a player and just expect and accept the blunders that used to drive me nuts. Someone like Nick Ries is another story however. His inability to remain vertical when involved in stoppages is killing us. Good players keep their feet and the sooner that Nick can stay up the better player he will become.
The Candy Man
24 May 2004, 23:27
Originally posted by andrew coombs
Someone like Nick Ries is another story however. His inability to remain vertical when involved in stoppages is killing us. Good players keep their feet and the sooner that Nick can stay up the better player he will become.
Please allow me to tell you it is not only Nick Ries. A lot of so-called "professional" players take the field with inappropriate footwear, which is something I just cannot comprehend.
They run around the field slipping and sliding, and it never enters their heads to wear longer stops in their boots.
Originally posted by The Candy Man
They run around the field slipping and sliding, and it never enters their heads to wear longer stops in their boots.
Not being a pro on this issue, but isn't this a comfort thing for the players? i haven't worn any of the boots with longer stops so i don't know if they feel any different, maybe the longer stops also make it harder for flexability?
The Candy Man
24 May 2004, 23:51
Originally posted by feher
Not being a pro on this issue, but isn't this a comfort thing for the players? i haven't worn any of the boots with longer stops so i don't know if they feel any different, maybe the longer stops also make it harder for flexability?
The ability to keep your feet in football is far more important than comfort. Once you fall on the ground, your team is down to 17 men until you regain your footing.
Watching a footballer slip for no apparent reason is something that really annoys me. Usually it is when the ball bounces wrong and they have to change direction suddenly. Without the longer stops there is nothing to grip the turf. It's a little like driving with bald tyres.
I'm sure you are correct, it would be a matter of players wearing more comfortable footwear rather than more practicle footwear, and therein lies the pity.
I fully agree with you that players need to keep their feet, maybe the comfort thing also helps them play better or no worse then not slipping? if that makes any sense :confused:
I don't know how much longer the stops are for wet weather but maybe the longer stops put added pressure on the knee when trying to turn, maybe it is also a added safety measure; well that is my theory at least.
The Candy Man
25 May 2004, 00:05
Well, I hope there is some theory because it makes no sense to me. I would have never played footy without long stops, I needed every advantage I could take.
Just as I could never have played cricket without spikes. I went out to bat one day in rubber souls. I hit a ball through cover and took 2 runs. I looked to come back for 3, but was sent back. As I turned, there was nothing to grip the pitch, I slipped and just laid in the middle of the pitch watching myself get run out. Never batted in rubbers again. :)
I've lost count of the number of times I've seen a night game where in the first quarter, players are falling all over the place. Then at 1/4 time they change to long stops. I always ask myself, "The players should have known this would happen, why didn't they just put on the long stops before the game started?".
Originally posted by The Candy Man
... I always ask myself, "The players should have known this would happen, why didn't they just put on the long stops before the game started?".
Maybe the coach should have enforce this, not that he should have to.
Not being a pro on this issue, but isn't this a comfort thing for the players? i haven't worn any of the boots with longer stops so i don't know if they feel any different, maybe the longer stops also make it harder for flexability?
An ex-coach of mine once said "If you leave any decision to players they will stuff it up on you", To the delight of the board he decided what footwear the players would wear.
He insisted all players wear long stops during games regardless of ground condition, I got stress fractures in both feet.
The long stops are more than a comfort issue on hard grounds they provide less grip and if you do a considerable amount of running (or are fat) then the likelihood of stress fractures is increased exponentially to the hardness of the ground. I never noticed a flexibility issue when wearing long stops- just pain.
Cheers
Originally posted by mick
An ex-coach of mine once said "If you leave any decision to players they will stuff it up on you", To the delight of the board he decided what footwear the players would wear.
He insisted all players wear long stops during games regardless of ground condition, I got stress fractures in both feet.
The long stops are more than a comfort issue on hard grounds they provide less grip and if you do a considerable amount of running (or are fat) then the likelihood of stress fractures is increased exponentially to the hardness of the ground. I never noticed a flexibility issue when wearing long stops- just pain.
Cheers
thanks for that, that flexibility issue was just a theory of mine, since i presume the stops are longer i would have thought they would stick in the ground a bit if your sliding your foot, but like i said i haven't worn footy boots in ages.
Bojangles17
29 May 2004, 23:14
Originally posted by The Candy Man
I
At the start of the year I said the recruitment of Trent Croad was a waste of time. I was wrong, but I don't mind at all being wrong about that one.
Keep proving me wrong Trent. :)
hmmm , one swallow doesn;t make a summer, he was NOT worth a first round draft pick , it should have been used more sensibly similarly the No 6 pick that was forwarded to a fortuitous Essendon should have been retained and maybe the Hawks wouldnt be in the pickle they find themselves in
The Candy Man
29 May 2004, 23:20
Originally posted by Bojangles17
hmmm , one swallow doesn;t make a summer, he was NOT worth a first round draft pick , it should have been used more sensibly similarly the No 6 pick that was forwarded to a fortuitous Essendon should have been retained and maybe the Hawks wouldnt be in the pickle they find themselves in
And maybe our fair share of luck with injuries and a couple of 1 point losses going our way and maybe we wouldn't be in the "pickle" we are in. I just love people who come along when a side is down and almost out and claim to have all the answers.
Gary Shadforth
30 May 2004, 08:41
Originally posted by The Candy Man
And maybe our fair share of luck with injuries and a couple of 1 point losses going our way and maybe we wouldn't be in the "pickle" we are in. I just love people who come along when a side is down and almost out and claim to have all the answers.
My thoughts exactly, Candy. And it was Trent's unpaid mark in front of goal that cost us against the Swans.
andrew coombs
30 May 2004, 16:42
Head in the clouds stuff boys. The effort against Adelaide is indicative of where Hawthorn are.
The Candy Man
30 May 2004, 22:01
Originally posted by andrew coombs
Head in the clouds stuff boys. The effort against Adelaide is indicative of where Hawthorn are.
So you are choosing one match as an indication of the whole season? Is Port Adelaide's 92 point thrashing by the Kangaroos an indication of where they are at? How about Brisbane's 59 point defeat by Fremantle, or even Essendon's 96 point drubbing by Port Adelaide?
A lot of sides have been handed thrashings this season, this was ours. We can either accept it and get on with it, or we can let it destroy us completely. I would rather we get on with things and do the best we can.
Giving up is never the practicle option.
Grendel
31 May 2004, 02:51
Originally posted by The Candy Man
So you are choosing one match as an indication of the whole season? Is Port Adelaide's 92 point thrashing by the Kangaroos an indication of where they are at? How about Brisbane's 59 point defeat by Fremantle, or even Essendon's 96 point drubbing by Port Adelaide?
Port Adelaide (171)
d.Hawthorn (90)
Brisbane (110)
d.Hawthorn (62) (scoreboard flattered us)
Geelong (108)
d. Hawthorn (52) (ditto the Brisbane game)
Adelaide (133)
d Hawthorn (47)
Add to that the inept showings against North and the Dogs (even the Tiges who were as bad as us but at least came away with the four points) and more than 50% of our matches thus far this season we haven't even been close to competitive.
It's a terrible indictment on the season and it's far more than 'one' match.
A lot of sides have been handed thrashings this season, this was ours. We can either accept it and get on with it, or we can let it destroy us completely. I would rather we get on with things and do the best we can.
You mean this was ours.. again. We have accepted it (from appearances) as it was our fourth 'thrashing' in ten games.
Only I don't quite think that's what you meant by accepting it though.
Giving up is never the practical option.
No giving up isn't an option. But there should a realisation of expectation as well.
I don't expect anything other than pride in performance (from both the players and the coaching staff). Atm I'm of the belief that neither group is delivering anywhere near their peak output.
Through what cause/effect? I think you have to look at what has gone before. Poor recruiting primarily, poor rehab, poor list management, poor overall performance for far to long.
So agree, don't give up but don't pretend that things are not in a very perilous state because they are and they MUST be fixed else damage of a long LONG term nature (and by that I mean the very survival of the team itself) could be in jeopardy.
Originally posted by Grendel
[
Through what cause/effect? I think you have to look at what has gone before. Poor recruiting primarily, poor rehab, poor list management, poor overall performance for far to long.
So agree, don't give up but don't pretend that things are not in a very perilous state because they are and they MUST be fixed else damage of a long LONG term nature (and by that I mean the very survival of the team itself) could be in jeopardy. [/B]
This is the whole point, things are perilous. Easy to say now blood a few kids, try a few blokes out and so on. The old saying, rebuilding phase, problem is that with our list in such a state there is no foundation to build a side on. Not much to keep while we blood a few kids, not much for our kids to learn from. Having this conversation in the pub the other day, who would you keep, obviously you must keep quite a few but not many are in the "do not trade under any circumstance" . Personaly I think of, Crawford, Everitt, Hay, Hodge.
To hear Brerton say recently no need to panic we just keep picking our best side, Begs the question, why, when your best is no where near good enough. This to me is a club not seeing reality, they better soon or we are in big trouble for a long time.
The Candy Man
1 Jun 2004, 19:36
Originally posted by Grendel
Port Adelaide (171)
d.Hawthorn (90)
Brisbane (110)
d.Hawthorn (62) (scoreboard flattered us)
Geelong (108)
d. Hawthorn (52) (ditto the Brisbane game)
Adelaide (133)
d Hawthorn (47)
Big losses to Port at AAMI and Brisbane at the Gabba. That happens to most sides, even if they are playing well ..... just ask Melbourne last weekend.
That leaves two losses you can say weren't tolerable.
Get a grip people, this isn't the end of the world you know. We are having a bad year .... get over it. Next year this will happen to another club, then a different club again the following year.
That's footy life. The sun will rise again and so will the Hawks. Have a little faith for goodness sakes.
Originally posted by The Candy Man
[B]Big losses to Port at AAMI and Brisbane at the Gabba. That happens to most sides, even if they are playing well ..... just ask Melbourne last weekend.
As I said, the scoreboard flattered us. Against a side like the Lions you'd probably wear a six/eight goal loss. But that was a 100 point thrashing in every sense but the scoreboard, thank god they didn't kick straight. Port was a literal scoreboard thrashing.
Just because you may expect to lost to any side because they're decent sides DOES NOT make a non-competitive outing ever acceptable.
That leaves two losses you can say weren't tolerable.
If you can tolerate non-competitive performance at anytime then thats your perogative. I would like to think I could always at least expect a competitive showing.
For the last three seasons (including this one) that hasn't been the case.
When we lose we can be the most inept un-competitive side going around and I HATE that.
Get a grip people, this isn't the end of the world you know. We are having a bad year .... get over it. Next year this will happen to another club, then a different club again the following year.
No, it's not a 'bad' year it's a dreadful year. It's a year of total lack of heart, of no spirit for the jumper they wear, of off-field drama's that never used to affect us, of a crisis of proportions that hasn't been seen at the Hawks for a long long time.
And to ignore it or simply dismiss as 'just a bad year' will do nothing to fix deep rooted problems that are now coming to surface within the HFC.
That's footy life. The sun will rise again and so will the Hawks. Have a little faith for goodness sakes.
Faith in what? In a playing list that has shown it cannot compete without a full list to choose from? A coaching panel that has no secondary game plan? A football dept that continually pays over the top prices on drafting/trading policy?
I've had faith, I thought that Schwab deserved to serve out his contract to the end of last season on what he showed in his first two seasons. He did that and he failed to make the finals and then traded (again) short term for (at best) solid footballers.
We have no KP depth, no mid-tier on-field leaders, no 'hard nuts' *one hard nut in Vanders* but we're going to trade for them NEXT year apparently...
The clubs in a total shambles and the 'she'll be right mate' is not a solution I really want to see implemented.
So sorry C-man but I just cannot accept that anything other than a through review and analysis of ALL functions within the HFC at a seasons end must take place.
Or this 'bad year' is only going to repeat itself in future. and with a whole lot of 'bandwagon' supporters deserting the sinking ship in droves too.
Originally posted by Grendel
The clubs in a total shambles and the 'she'll be right mate' is not a solution I really want to see implemented.
There's been no "she'll be right" attitude. All I am saying is things are bad and SOME things need to be addressed.
If some people on this forum have their way they'd sack everyone including the hot dog sellers and cleaning ladies. I'm amazed the boys selling Football Records outside the ground haven't copped a serve.
I'm just trying to remind people that their ARE some good things going on at Hawthorn, and it is something a lot of people have lost sight of.
I'm not a big fan of throwing babies out with the bath water, but that is precisely what some people are suggesting we do.
I'd really like to know how some of you would react to REALLY bad news. "Fortis in Procella" .... strength in adversity. Great clubs remain strong even in adversity.
Originally posted by Becker
[B]This really angers me. Since when have I adopted a "she'll be right" attitude? All I am saying is things are bad and SOME things need to be addressed.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Candy Man
Get a grip people, this isn't the end of the world you know. We are having a bad year .... get over it. Next year this will happen to another club, then a different club again the following year.
That's footy life. The sun will rise again and so will the Hawks. Have a little faith for goodness sakes.
If you don't think that the above doesn't read as a 'she'll be right' type of post then I think you'd be mistaken.
If some people on this forum have their way they'd sack everyone including the hot dog sellers and cleaning ladies. I'm amazed the boys selling Football Records outside the ground haven't copped a serve.
Yea and they'd be wrong too. But to blithely (and that's how it reads to me at least) dismiss this year as just an abberation and that it will be some other club 'next year' is little different in outlook.
I'm just trying to remind people that their ARE some good things going on at Hawthorn, and it is something a lot of people have lost sight of.
What then? Atm I'm really of the opinion the clubs in freefall, there's precious little coming through on the playing list. There's a belief from to many in posistions of power (seemingly) that it's just a 'bad run' etc.
I don't believe that or accept that to be true.
I'm not a big fan of throwing babies out with the bath water, but that is precisely what some people are suggesting we do.
Me either but I'm also not a fan of burying my head in the sand to problems and pretending all is right with the world when it clearly isn't.
I'd really like to know how some of you would react to REALLY bad news. "Fortis in Procella" .... strength in adversity. Great clubs remain strong even in adversity.
I saw adversity in 96, I don't really want to see it get to that stage again do you? FItzroy was the strongest/greatest club in the league once. We all know what happened there.