If you were Miller...... [Archive]

tiger of old

24 May 2004, 15:33

i dont think miller has that much power to sack the bloke who employed him:D

but on feild matters:
Retired
dunc,rogers and with some doubts hanging over cambo.
Trade:
fiora,chaffey,zantuck and bowden.
Sucker Trade:
pettifer.
Marching Orders:
houlihan,nicholls,fletcher.
Very Thin Ice but we can only change so much:
blumfeild,hilton.

cheers!

Coach Required

24 May 2004, 15:34

Time to be honest:

1st up: coaching panel....all sacked or not renewed

replacements: O'donnell or Wallace, lets be honest here there not much going around

2nd playing list:

Gone:

Nicholls
Hilton
Houlihan
Marsh (the late pick gamble didnt work)
Fletcher (just not upto it another late pick that didnt work)
Pettifer, just not upto AFL standard can dominate the VFL but isnt an AFL player

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Retired/forced retirement:

Rogers
D.Kellaway
Campbell just doesnt have the leg speed to go anymore (the two above way b4 campbell though)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Big Question marks (last chance)

Blumfield injured plagued, has the rest of the year to prove himself

Zantuck : time this lazy player proves himself, has until seasons end

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Time to trade:

Rodan : has to be traded, still think we can get a pick for him but he has had enough chances at Richmond

Chaffey: not good enough, maybe able to get a pick for him 2nd round perhaps

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

thats 13 players on our list that in all honesty are not good enough, had enough chances or are just past it to play consistant AFL footy.

itsintheblood

24 May 2004, 15:39

Is there a player in the AFL who turns the ball over more times than mark chaffey? I was a BIG fan of his a few years ago and his disposal skills have gone backwards. A real disappointment

tigerdan

24 May 2004, 15:42

Get Kevin Sheedy if he can (bearing in mind the marshmellow war). I know there are some who do not like sheedy but I say:

He has a proven coaching record.
He is an ex-tiger.
His PR value to the club would be enormous.
He has helped build Essendon up into being probably the dominant victorian club.
I think he'd get rid of the poor culture at the club.

Collingwood did it with Malthouse (and Eddie). I think we could do it with Sheedy.

I think just having him on board would do amazing things for sponsorship, membership and on-field success.

Dan

froars

24 May 2004, 15:45

If i was Miller i'd be down at Doggieland poaching - or pooching lol.

Only kidding Doggie fans, although tis a thought hey. They're players just never seem happy there.

Isn't it a bit early in the season to start talking delistings etc?

Coach Required

24 May 2004, 15:51

Originally posted by froars
If i was Miller i'd be down at Doggieland poaching - or pooching lol.

Only kidding Doggie fans, although tis a thought hey. They're players just never seem happy there.

Isn't it a bit early in the season to start talking delistings etc?

no froars our season is shot LOL

and i wouldnt touch any doggies what so ever, we already got their most talented, you only have too see how many games they have won over the past few seasons to realise they have about as much talent as us. Wouldnt touch them if they were the only other team in the comp.

itsintheblood

24 May 2004, 15:53

Originally posted by froars
If i was Miller i'd be down at Doggieland poaching - or pooching lol.

Only kidding Doggie fans, although tis a thought hey. They're players just never seem happy there.

Isn't it a bit early in the season to start talking delistings etc?

Froars, it's quite clear that our list is totally inadequate and we are carrying a lot of dead wood.

No point waiting to the end of the year. Decide now.

1980

24 May 2004, 15:58

Frawley wont be renewed for 2005.

Hopefully they'll secure a coach that inspires both confidence and team spirit in his players.

Get rid of Brittain and Crocker. Bring back Matty Knights and Craig Lambert as assistants next year.

froars

24 May 2004, 15:59

The choices are pretty obvious now - i'm hoping some will come good or show something before then.

Blumfield prime example - what have we got out of him? I'm hoping he can at least play half a season for us and pretty soon.

I know people don't rate Hilton which i do - not as a great player - but one who has a go, so I'd like to see how he finishes up the year. Same with Fleming although i think we've seen what he has to offer.

The rest of the duds already mentioned - well, the end of the season can't come quick enough for me to get rid of them.

And you can't talk of trades until we know what's on offer from other clubs.

Is so up in the air at the moment - we could win a few of the next couple of games and we'd be talking making the 8 again lol.

Never boring at Tigerland lol

Darth_Tiger

24 May 2004, 17:21

as it stands the names mentioned are pretty much on the money. dont know re trading bowden and zantuck especially after bowdens last 2 weeks, if he keeps it up he aint going nowhere and zantuck has the talent a new coach esp a sheedy or wallace might be just what he needs. he is talented i would keep him. the rest though and yes i agree with froars it is too early to tell with some of them but as it stands they would be gone.

diggler

24 May 2004, 17:36

You can ad that clot Andrew Kellaway to the list of delistings or trade him to some club that has no vision for the future.

Surely the worst player to ever be nominated for All-Australian ever!!!

Watching him player, is like watching the old newsreels of football in the 40's and 50's.

itsintheblood

24 May 2004, 17:42

Originally posted by diggler
You can ad that clot Andrew Kellaway to the list of delistings or trade him to some club that has no vision for the future.

Surely the worst player to ever be nominated for All-Australian ever!!!

Watching him player, is like watching the old newsreels of football in the 40's and 50's.

Must admit he's been ordinary over the last couple of years. Must be a D. kellaway trait. How the kellaways made the elite level is beyond me.

cairo tiger

24 May 2004, 18:25

i pretty much agree with diggler and coach required. I would also use Fiora as trade bait and possibly bowden but if he continues to play well put him on yearly contracts.

a third of the list needs to be turned over.

re coaching panel have no vision or skill, we need to target a successful coach and get him to bring in their personell. If sheeds wins one more grandfinal at ess i say he is 60 40 to coming home.

we need good social club as well.

we need to mae sure we are in the bloody black not the red. if they need me to do their math they can get me free of charge.

tiger of old

24 May 2004, 20:05

Originally posted by cairo tiger
i
we need to mae sure we are in the bloody black not the red. if they need me to do their math they can get me free of charge. thats mighty big of you:rolleyes:

Numpty Tiger

24 May 2004, 20:57

Miller has made no secret of the fact that he would have traded/de-listed more players last year, but the system doesn't allow for it. Hence, I'm confident there will be plenty of change again come October.

Sack the coach? Maybe, but I'd rather have Spud than Wallace!

St Kilda have proven if you have the cattle, you don't need a coach. So if Miller decides to keep Frawley on the grounds of Club stability I will support his decision wholeheartedly.

Help us, Greg Obi-Wan Miller, you're our last hope...

Otto's ladder

25 May 2004, 11:00

Agree with nearly all mentioned above (AK, Zantuck, Pettifer etc).

Bowden however is a tricky one. I wouldn't mind him having a good year, really good. He sure owes us one after years of getting caught and turn overs. If he has a good year, he may increase his value come trade time. Although many coaches may identify his flaws, they may also perceive that he would add value to their side (ie I think he would be handy at Sydney at the moment), and we may pick something decent up for him.

Chaffey had also disappointed this year. I was a big fan of his, but the time looks set to offload as his skills this year look very average.

Captain Blood

25 May 2004, 14:31

I would leave and go back to the Hammerheads, at least they can win games.
Seriously, new coach(s) Not just Frawley but Crocker, Brits etc. Need a complete overhall of the Caoching staff.
Then the playing list needs to be cleaned out again as was did this year.
Lose the following:
Blumfield
Fleming
Fletcher
Gaspar (trade back to WA )
Hilton
Houlihan
D.Kelleway (retire)
Marsh
Pettifer
Rogers (retire)
Rodan (trade bait)

***** - doesn't leave us much does it

tigermania

25 May 2004, 16:07

Seriously, how many times can we get rid of the dead wood?

It's time to stop the rot.

I'm sure that players like Fiora and Pettifer would be succussful at other clubs.

We have to start looking at the top of our playing list.(i.e. Gasper,Chaffey,A & D Kellaway,Campbell? etc)

Ottens should be dominating games yet he is always named 4th or 5th best player.

Let's take a long hard look at our leaders, coaches included, and the rest will take care of itself.

Tigerbob

25 May 2004, 17:52

FIRST THE COACHES:

All of them to be relinguished of their duties.

Garry O'Donnell is my choice and has been for about a year and a half now. Would love to get Matty Knights and Craig Lambert down as assistants.

ADMINISTRATION:

Our adminastration for some reason doesnt make me smile with joy. I would seriously look to fill a few roles with experienced dicipline people. Rex Hunt, Brendon Gale people of this ilk.

PLAYING LIST:

RETIRE - Rogers, Duncan and Campbell (hes gone)

DELIST - Houlihan, Nicholls, Marsh, Fleming, Fletcher

TRADE: (BE PREPARED) Bowden, A. Kellaway, Chaffey, Fiora, Pettifer (if we can get squat), Gaspar (ditto).

Thats a cleanout, but one that is more than needed.

The players mentioned for trades are ones that will get us a decent amount. In this modern age of football, coaches all believe in reconstructing players with heaps of talent, all these players have the talent so they can be fixed.

tigerdan

25 May 2004, 18:06

I can't think of anyone in the team that is untouchable for trading. Geez, if Judd wants to come home I would be prepared to throw Cogs in the mix.

Our results show that no-one is performing well enough to be untouchable. Ottens has slipped out of my untouchable list.

Time for a new coaching structure. I'd prefer an experienced coach to untried. I never liked O'Donnell, though I cannot comment on him as a coach. But I never did like him.

Fishfinger

25 May 2004, 21:52

Originally posted by Tigerbob
TRADE: (BE PREPARED) Bowden, A. Kellaway Sorry to pick out a small part of your well thought at post Bob, but I think these two would be a mistake.
Bowden had fairly average years in 2002/3 but is back to good form. Players of his class don't grow on trees so a trade of value to us would be unlikely.
Andrew Kellaway is a clubman through and through and his value off field at the club would be immeasurable. Shunting players like him, such as Malthouse and Wood, was a factor in our decline from greatness and I can't see it being anything but detrimental to morale at the club.

I like your thinking to get a high profile person for the presidency but I couldn't see Rex bringing stability. I wouldn't mind him being on the board if I thought his ego could cope with being given directives without going off on his own tangent. Agree Brendan Gale would be great on the board.

Good coaching panel. I'd like to have them all as assistants to to a proven coach if one was available and prepared to take us on.

sante

25 May 2004, 22:38

Trading Cogs for Judd is stupid! i say this coz we already have receivers at our club, we need the in and under players like Cogs!!!! not some player who waits for others to get it too them, we dont need Judd

Darth_Tiger

25 May 2004, 22:52

Bojangles17

25 May 2004, 23:15

Originally posted by diggler
You can ad that clot Andrew Kellaway to the list of delistings or trade him to some club that has no vision for the future.

Surely the worst player to ever be nominated for All-Australian ever!!!

Watching him player, is like watching the old newsreels of football in the 40's and 50's.

whats that, taking courageous one grab marks from go to whoa...who do you support ..that would have to be one of the stupidist boofheaded remarks ive seen on this forum yet

tigerdan

25 May 2004, 23:53

Originally posted by sante2003
Trading Cogs for Judd is stupid! i say this coz we already have receivers at our club, we need the in and under players like Cogs!!!! not some player who waits for others to get it too them, we dont need Judd

Mate, Judd is a 10/10, Cogs 8/10. You could build a team around the guy.

oxx

26 May 2004, 08:15

Originally posted by froars
If i was Miller i'd be down at Doggieland poaching - or pooching lol.

Give the woman a potato !!!!!

:D

Makes sense to me to poaching players from a club that wont be around in 3 years.

oxx

26 May 2004, 09:41

Originally posted by Captain Blood
I would leave and go back to the Hammerheads, at least they can win games.
Seriously, new coach(s) Not just Frawley but Crocker, Brits etc. Need a complete overhall of the Caoching staff.
Then the playing list needs to be cleaned out again as was did this year.
Lose the following:
Blumfield
Fleming
Fletcher
Gaspar (trade back to WA )
Hilton
Houlihan
D.Kelleway (retire)
Marsh
Pettifer
Rogers (retire)
Rodan (trade bait)

***** - doesn't leave us much does it

I agree with Captain Blood.
Maybe the real question is "Who Should We Keep?"

kretchy

26 May 2004, 11:17

Originally posted by sante2003
Trading Cogs for Judd is stupid! i say this coz we already have receivers at our club, we need the in and under players like Cogs!!!! not some player who waits for others to get it too them, we dont need Judd
Why is Judd a receiver? Top 5 in the league in contested ball gets, on the weekend he had 12 clearances in a team that got smashed. That suggests to me he can get the ball himself alright.

itsintheblood

26 May 2004, 11:20

Originally posted by kretchy
Why is Judd a receiver? Top 5 in the league in contested ball gets, on the weekend he had 12 clearances in a team that got smashed. That suggests to me he can get the ball himself alright.

I'd take him in a flash!!!

nineteen eighty

26 May 2004, 11:38

Firstly, the the poster who mentioned earlier that they would like to keep Spud in preferance to Wallace I say...YOU ARE NUTS! Wallace should be our #1 target...if we get nobody else, we have to get him as coach for next year.

As for players, most of us are on the same wavelength in terms of retirements and delistings. One thing that has already been mentioned is that there is only so many changes they can make at year end. Blokes like Hilton will most likely survive due to the fact that there are probably 8 players ahead of him that have to go.

On the trading front, there should be no player on our list who should be deemed untouchable. If the right player came up from another club then I say go for it.

To the poster who said that Judd is a receiver I say....YOU ARE NUTS! Have you seen any of Judd's games? He is still a kid and will be rated as one of the all time greats as long as he remains injury free. No player has had such a great impact at such a young age...no player.

itsintheblood

26 May 2004, 11:49

Originally posted by nineteen eighty
Firstly, the the poster who mentioned earlier that they would like to keep Spud in preferance to Wallace I say...YOU ARE NUTS! Wallace should be our #1 target...if we get nobody else, we have to get him as coach for next year.

As for players, most of us are on the same wavelength in terms of retirements and delistings. One thing that has already been mentioned is that there is only so many changes they can make at year end. Blokes like Hilton will most likely survive due to the fact that there are probably 8 players ahead of him that have to go.

On the trading front, there should be no player on our list who should be deemed untouchable. If the right player came up from another club then I say go for it.

To the poster who said that Judd is a receiver I say....YOU ARE NUTS! Have you seen any of Judd's games? He is still a kid and will be rated as one of the all time greats as long as he remains injury free. No player has had such a great impact at such a young age...no player.

Even Nathan Brown????? You're kidding!!!!

Otto's ladder

26 May 2004, 12:06

Originally posted by itsintheblood
Even Nathan Brown????? You're kidding!!!!

Definitely if Jonathon Brown comes up for grabs. Unfortunately he seems pretty happy winning premierships at the moment.

nineteen eighty

26 May 2004, 12:09

Originally posted by itsintheblood
Even Nathan Brown????? You're kidding!!!!

Brown would be close to being untouchable. As would Richo. And before everyone attacks me about Richo, remember that he is one of our few (if only) matchwinners. I'll use the Judd example however unlikely to explain though. If Judd was to ask to come home, who would we offer to get him to the Tigers. Would we offer Brown...I say yes. Would we offer Richo...again yes. It's not going to happen and you would only offer these players up for a player who would provide 10 years of great service and would be what is known as a "franchise" player. Pavlich would be another that I would offer these players up for...again, not going to happen.

itsintheblood

26 May 2004, 12:22

Originally posted by nineteen eighty
Brown would be close to being untouchable. As would Richo. And before everyone attacks me about Richo, remember that he is one of our few (if only) matchwinners. I'll use the Judd example however unlikely to explain though. If Judd was to ask to come home, who would we offer to get him to the Tigers. Would we offer Brown...I say yes. Would we offer Richo...again yes. It's not going to happen and you would only offer these players up for a player who would provide 10 years of great service and would be what is known as a "franchise" player. Pavlich would be another that I would offer these players up for...again, not going to happen.

I disagree

I wouldnt swap nathan brown for anyone. Not even Judd. Brown has a good 8 years of top level footy left. His class and poise and experience is what we desparately need at the moment

bionicsasquach

28 May 2004, 17:13

It's ridiculous things like this that are the real reason i am ashamed to be a Tiger sometimes. We know the playing list isn't premiership material yet, but we are 4-5 at the moment for **** sake

scroda

28 May 2004, 17:58

Originally posted by bionicsasquach
It's ridiculous things like this that are the real reason i am ashamed to be a Tiger sometimes. We know the playing list isn't premiership material yet, but we are 4-5 at the moment for **** sake

now lest be realistic... we are probably the worst team ever to be 4-5 in league history. an absolute rabble. we knocked off an under-confident and poorly performed Hawthorn by a point, the bottom of the ladder pies, a sydney outfit that is completely overrated and a bulldogs team that should have beaten us eight times over if they had kicked straight. And fcuk the entire list, without just one player - richo - we'd be 1-8

blackcat

29 May 2004, 14:28

Guys look at it this way at least where above Collingwood! HAHAHAHA puts a smile on my face every time. But I think we have to look at what got us here and for mind it is **** (band aid job) decisions making. Problem with our board is they can’t stick to a decision and ride it out (good to see they may do it with Spud shows change).
Soon as the supporters (US) don’t like what’s going on the board crumbles and they change their mind. To our players our Board must seem like a woman that never makes up her mind it would **** you to tears. Tell me you could perform at work if everyone was getting the sack around you and constantly changing their minds. STABILITY IS WHAT WE NEED.
If we as supporters could stand back and just let the board do there job then we might have a successful club but instead as supporters we look for the quick fix and push it upon the board to make that poor decision. We have to stop looking for the “quick fix” cause 20 years of it has shown us that it achieves sweet **** all.
So maybe getting rid of all these players at the end of the year is just another quick fix. If we get a good coach at the end of the year we maybe able to turn these players into the good players we know they can be.
As supporters we would be kidding ourselves if we thought that bringing a new coaching team across next year will takes us to finals footy in 2005 its going to take a few seasons. So why not stick with these players for one more year and see what we can get out of them under a new coach. For one I would like to see Pettifer and few others under a good coach. Give them one more season under different supervision and you will probably see them turn around.

peejay

30 May 2004, 22:05

Originally posted by scroda
now lest be realistic... we are probably the worst team ever to be 4-5 in league history. an absolute rabble. we knocked off an under-confident and poorly performed Hawthorn by a point, the bottom of the ladder pies, a sydney outfit that is completely overrated and a bulldogs team that should have beaten us eight times over if they had kicked straight. And fcuk the entire list, without just one player - richo - we'd be 1-8

I think you need to get dose of realism. We are 4 - 6 and 11th - who do you think we should have beaten - the top 3 ???

the reason we are above these sides is because we have beaten them - it's really quite simple.

Crumden

31 May 2004, 11:39

I think scroda has a point. Apart from St Kilda, every team we have played this year has come into the game against us with poor form.

Collingwood had a shocking pre-season. Melbourne were flogged in round one before playing us. Geelong and Adelaide were both on the bottom of the ladder and playing poorly coming into the game against us. Sydney had lost a couple on the trot. The Bulldogs and Hawthorns form speaks for itself. Port and West Coast had both been thumped the week before playing us. Yet we have still managed only 4 wins and (more telling) have the worst percentage in the league.

We should do away with the defensive flooding/loose man in defence game for the rest of the season and try playing attacking footy. That plan of "winning ugly" isn't working - we are still getting pumped against half-decent teams and only falling across the line against the cellar dwellers.

Grant Thomas isn't the greatest tactician in the league. Neither was John Northey. But they both showed if the coach is a good people manager and can get players enjoying their footy and playing as a team, that will take you further than elaborate strategies that, quite frankly, with a less skilled team just confuse the players. (end of rant)