Simon Beumont

[Bill meet Gugi]

Just wanting to get peoples feelings on acquisition of Beumont. I just can't understand why he is still getting a game at our club even though we are travelling pretty bad at the moment. I dont want to sound cynical but hawthorn does this religiously getting players that are just not up to eg Kingsley Hunter from the year before. I do agree they do find a couple of serviceable people every now and then that provide for a couple of years eg simon cox but come on. I believe that whenever beumont takes the field we are already a player down. Am i the only one that feels this way?

In other disheartning news good to see Brett Johnson is haivng hsi best year of football at another club after being traded never doubted he couldn't play was just not given the opportunity to with Mitchell and co in the middle. However there was always a place for him on a wing i feel.

[feher]

Beau has being ok, he came pretty cheap in terms of a trade, he has being servicable. You say 'our club' but your profile says you support the cats?

I dont want to sound cynical but hawthorn does this religiously getting players that are just not up to eg Kingsley Hunter

every club does it, no point singling us out.

In other disheartning news good to see Brett Johnson is haivng hsi best year of football at another club after being traded never doubted he couldn't play was just not given the opportunity to with Mitchell and co in the middle. However there was always a place for him on a wing i feel.

this has being done to death, we already have plenty of players that play his position, he isn't overly quick.

[Bill meet Gugi]

i just didnt fill the profile in properly im a hawks supporter

[jmain14]

now c'mon feher, lets be honest mate - you couldn't possibly say that schwabby & co. would be happy with beaumont's form since crossing to glenferrie, and if they are that would probably explain why we are 2 and 7 after 9 rounds. it would have to be said that 'bill meet gugi' has raised a fair issue on this occasion.

how long can us hawks supporters be content with 'serviceable' defenders before we say enough is enough?? even then, I still am not convinced that beaumont's year thus far has been 'serviceable' - that would seem a pretty generous gesture to me.

despite taking into account that our best defender is on the sidelines, try and compare a graham and beaumont combo to a scarlett and harley or a leppitsh and michael, and then try not have a chuckle to yourself. I couldn't really imagine a fraser gehrig shaking in his boots with the thought of either of them 2 lining up on him.

lets not forget who we lost for beaumont either. I was a huge rapt for loatsy when at hawthorn especially in the latter stages. his chance will definately come at geelong, and I'm sure he'll slot into that team nicely. I don't think the same can be said for beauy.

he could still prove me wrong, however from what I've seen so far I strongly doubt he will.

[Bill meet Gugi]

Have to agree with Jmain i think that to call beumonts season so far serviceable would outrageous. I have watched all but one game of his so far and he sticks out like a swollen thumb. I know a lot of people have been into croad this year but i would bet anyone that croad has more club votes than beumont at this stage of the year and at least seems to have a go while out there. Beumont struggled at a lower club last year and is doing the same again.

With Hay out so far it has left a great hole in our defence and i feel it is an area of concern considering Smith's amount of clangers of late, but dont get me wrong he his a super player who i think will play better when he has some more confidnce once a few our better backmen are back and firing.

Loatsey i will also have to agree with, he showed some real promise late last year kicking 3 or 4 in the VFL losing GF side, sad to see him go as i fell he would of been a greater asset than campbell as he is just to slow and gets soundly beaten by more mobile ruckmen like white, gardner and Darcy.

I just hope that Hay is back to take Gehrig or Hammil in a couple of weeks however i pitty to think who will take Riewoldt, Guerra, Milne and Clarke as i dont think we have the fire power to compete with this forward line. Hay, Smith, Croad, Graham (on a really really good day and i am being generous considering he will get either hamill or gehrig)

[Yardie]

Bill meet Gugi, the problem with facing the Saints isn't the backline. They are going to kick goals no matter what we do and we can only limit that so much. I am more concerned as to where the goals are going to come from.

[feher]

Originally posted by Bill meet Gugi
i just didnt fill the profile in properly im a hawks supporter

Ok just as long as we cleared that up :D

[feher]

Originally posted by jmain14
now c'mon feher, lets be honest mate - you couldn't possibly say that schwabby & co. would be happy with beaumont's form since crossing to glenferrie, and if they are that would probably explain why we are 2 and 7 after 9 rounds. it would have to be said that 'bill meet gugi' has raised a fair issue on this occasion.

well who should we have gone after (relisticly)? I don't think beauy has being that bad, who do we have to replace the likes of graham and beauy? hay hasn't played all year, don't know whos left in the vfl, but really what other choice do we have?

Originally posted by jmain14
how long can us hawks supporters be content with 'serviceable' defenders before we say enough is enough?? even then, I still am not convinced that beaumont's year thus far has been 'serviceable' - that would seem a pretty generous gesture to me.

top kpp aren't that easy to comeby, graham has being loyal, beauy doesn't miss a game, he hasn't missed one in years, maybe that is one of the small reason he is in the side.

Originally posted by jmain14
despite taking into account that our best defender is on the sidelines, try and compare a graham and beaumont combo to a scarlett and harley or a leppitsh and michael, and then try not have a chuckle to yourself...

come on; name me all the other sides in the comp. that can compare to those names?

Originally posted by jmain14
ets not forget who we lost for beaumont either. I was a huge rapt for loatsy when at hawthorn especially in the latter stages. his chance will definately come at geelong, and I'm sure he'll slot into that team nicely. I don't think the same can be said for beauy.

While i didn't see that much of loats he had plenty of time to justify his position in the squad, i have doubts that he will ever be a regular afl footballer

[andrew coombs]

Didnt speak to one Carlton supporter last year who thought Beaumont was a loss. He fumbles when under the pump and dosent have much in the way of pace. If Hawthorn could get something like a decent injury run I couldnt see him getting a game.

[Mappa]

Bill, the one thing that sticks out like a "swollen thumb" about Beaumont to me, is that he has a dip. Go back over the last nine rounds and see how many times he has put his body on the line, backed into packs etc. The highlights reel will be pretty full.

How many team DO realistically have a champion backline ? The Lions. That's about it. Every team has their serviceable backmen. Look at Paxman at the Power (before retiring), Kennelly at the Swans, Croft at the Bulldogs, Grover at the Dockers, the list goes on and on.

We wrap up Campbell Brown, and rightly so, because we love his courage, his skills are just "serviceable" at best, but we love him because he is a hark back to 80's when we were all tough. Beauy is the same, may not be built tough, but is tough upstairs. His skills have improved a lot too, if you ever saw him at Carlton.

As for Johnson, footy history is littered with players who couldn't make it at one team, but play well at another. Look at Guerra at the Saints. He was just a goer at P.A, but now, at the different club, different environment, he is killing them. We are not alone.

Personally I think the Swans game finally killed off our year, but we must still beat the Crows this week.

[jmain14]

Originally posted by Mappa
How many team DO realistically have a champion backline ? The Lions. That's about it. Every team has their serviceable backmen. Look at Paxman at the Power (before retiring), Kennelly at the Swans, Croft at the Bulldogs, Grover at the Dockers, the list goes on and on.


mappa, I would think Geelong wouldn't be far away from a brisbane backline with both harley and scarlett highly tipped to make this year's all australian side. I wouldn't disregard essendon either with fletcher and the run they get each week from mcphee and the johnson's. if us hawks supporters are going to put our key backman in the same category as grover from the dockers or a bert and ernie from sesame street we haven't got much hope have we?? who is this grover bloke anyway?? - never heard of him.

honestly, if graham and beauy are still wearing the brown and gold next year I will most likely not renew my hawks membership.

[Bill meet Gugi]

Mappa we are going to have to agree to disagree here i feel, To be a serviceable player at hawthorn at the moment would not take much considering that not the many players are playing to what we have seen them play before. However the acquisition of Beumont a player who i have never rated even before coming to hawthorn i feel was always going to be a long shot.

Like Andrew Coombs said his decisions under pressure are suspectable and i would agree that there would hardly be any carlton supporters disappointed to see Beumont leave. He would not be carltons best 22 man side this year

Campbell Brown i think has been great for the hawks over the last few weeks and would be one of the few shinning lights for the 2004 season so far.

There are more teams than just the lions that have a great backline the swans for example aslo have leo barry, and others which make them so good. Essendon are the same they have some key players back there Fletcher, Solomon Johnson, Geelong is another. I think that we do also have a pretty good backline but get found out when coming up against better opposition that intimidate a number of players that seem to go missing when we the game is in the balance.

the difference with Guerra and Johnson is Guerra was trying to get a game in a 22 man side that finished first after 22 round, the hawks finished ninth after a start similar to this year and yet johnson i feel was still dealt the raw end of the stick. Guerra played over 50 games for port also dont forget which is a good effort at a club that has been one of the competitions yard sticks ove the past 3 - 4 years.

[Gary Shadforth]

Originally posted by Mappa


Personally I think the Swans game finally killed off our year ....

Unfortunately Mappa, most likely you are right.

[mick]

Beaumont is an extremely unobtrusive player, allot of the work he does simply goes unnoticed by supporters-myself included.

He currently leads the team in marks and is fifth in overall disposals, as a comparison C. Brown would just be in the top 12. (Official club stats)

As for his performance under pressure, he has less clangers than Crawford, Smith and Everitt (pro-sport stats).

His tackling is excellent and is marginally better statistically than Cambell Brown, and both are in the top 12 of the club.

I fail to see where the criticism is justified, he is a genuine BP player - a very quiet achiever.


Cheers

[andrew coombs]

Originally posted by mick
Beaumont is an extremely unobtrusive player, allot of the work he does simply goes unnoticed by supporters-myself included.

He currently leads the team in marks and is fifth in overall disposals, as a comparison C. Brown would just be in the top 12. (Official club stats)

As for his performance under pressure, he has less clangers than Crawford, Smith and Everitt (pro-sport stats).

His tackling is excellent and is marginally better statistically than Cambell Brown, and both are in the top 12 of the club.

I fail to see where the criticism is justified, he is a genuine BP player - a very quiet achiever.


Cheers

Beaumont is usually the player that Smith does his little 20 metre chip kicks and then run past to get the handball off on the kickout. That is how he leads the team in marks and disposals. He has less clangers than Crawf, smith and Spider because the vast majority of his possessions are cheap easy ones when the side is chipping merrily away sideways.. His disposal is ordinary at best and he fumbles under the pump continually. That is why criticism of him is justified.

[Ramma]

Originally posted by andrew coombs
Beaumont is usually the player that Smith does his little 20 metre chip kicks and then run past to get the handball off on the kickout. That is how he leads the team in marks and disposals. He has less clangers than Crawf, smith and Spider because the vast majority of his possessions are cheap easy ones when the side is chipping merrily away sideways.. His disposal is ordinary at best and he fumbles under the pump continually. That is why criticism of him is justified.

....in your opinion Andrew.

[Grendel]

I didn't want Beaumont for the base reason that he is surplus to needs. With Smith, Graham, Lonie, Croad we had more than enough tall hbf's. His disposal is average (which is also a fault of quite a few others sadly) and he's hardly a player to build a future on.

Yet he's a solid enough player, can and has done decent jobs for us. Destroyed Headland the other week, if he'd of been on Hilton from the start we'd have probably won the Tiges game too.

So no, I still think he's probably a mistake for a side that should be looking to build long term strength but I can't fault him on what he's done so far this season.

He's a (as Jack Dyer would say) "good ordinary player" and he's performing as such too.

When he's forced out of the side we'll probably be a better team for it but only when a better option comes along to force the change.

[jmain14]

Originally posted by Ramma
....in your opinion Andrew.

coombsy is definately right ramma.

[Bill meet Gugi]

you are right Andrew and also Beumont doesnt get the footy is the positions as Smith, Crawford and everitt under pressure in the middle and does not generally have as many possessions as these players just mentioned.

His tackling might be excellent because he is always second to the footy. Continually chasing his opponent around and not reading the play.

[Ramma]

Originally posted by jmain14
coombsy is definately right ramma.

OK.
I think Grendel summed Beaumont up pretty well myself.

[mick]

Andrew coombes wrote
Beaumont is usually the player that Smith does his little 20 metre chip kicks and then run past to get the handball off on the kick out. That is how he leads the team in marks and disposals.

Well that would explain Beaumont's high possessions, if it were true.

To test the validity of this I watched the Swans game again and guess what, it has no factual basis whatsoever

Beaumont received 1 that's right one handball from Smith kicking out during the entire game, even in this case Beaumont was under extreme pressure and hand-balled it to a player in space. Later in the game he received a long kick on the 45 m arc from Lonie.

For the record Lekkas(2) Everitt (3) Beaumont(2) Bateman Graham(2) Croad (2) Crawford and Ball were the recipients of Kick-ins.

In no game this year (from those I have reviewed) has Beaumont been the player "Smith usually kicks to".*

Bill meet Gugi wrote
His tackling might be excellent because he is always second to the footy. Continually chasing his opponent around and not reading the play.

If Beaumont is always second to the footy and unable to read the play then I ask again - why is he fifth in club disposals despite the fact he does not average more than 3 possessions per game from kick-ins?


Ramma was quite correct to state that andrew merely presented an opinion, I would add that this opinion is baseless in fact.

As for Grendel's statement that Beaumont is a "good ordinary player"- That about sums it up for me, I didn't want him in the first place but now that he is a Hawk I hope he continues to do his job.

I'm all for people freely expressing their opinions but it would be nice if these thoughts were occasionally backed up by evidence.

Cheers

[andrew coombs]

Take a look over the whole season Mick and see who is factually wrong on kickouts. Beaumont spent more time on the pine last week than he has all season. Have a look at the Freo, Geelong, Richmond and Bullies game and get back to me.

[mick]

andrew,
I no longer have the Geelong or Footscray games taped/recorded, but in the Freo and Richmond games Beaumont was not the player Smith usually kicked to- Graham and Everitt, were the preferred targets in those games.

Rather than just taking a (educated) guess and forcing me to watch more Hawthorn losses just to prove you wrong, how about you chase down the Geelong/Footscray games and see if your theory stands up. I'd be willing to lay $10 that Beaumont was not the player Smith "usually" used as first option in the kick-ins.
Cheers

[andrew coombs]

Mick, this argument is going around in circles. I sat behind the goals at the Tassie game and I can assure you that Bowie was the target on the short kick out the majority of times. A mate of mine and I made comment that we couldnt work out why Connelly kept allowing it to happen. Anyway todays another day.The short kick in and recieves from Joel have worked really well this year and have set us up for some fluent forward movement. I dont care who he kicks to as long as it isnt stuffed up.

[Poison]

Originally posted by andrew coombs
Mick, this argument is going around in circles. I sat behind the goals at the Tassie game and I can assure you that Bowie was the target on the short kick out the majority of times. A mate of mine and I made comment that we couldnt work out why Connelly kept allowing it to happen. Anyway todays another day.The short kick in and recieves from Joel have worked really well this year and have set us up for some fluent forward movement. I dont care who he kicks to as long as it isnt stuffed up.

Where have you been? I think that justifies why everyone should take your opinion with a grain of salt.

As for Beaumont, he is the consumate defender, he punches the ball, he gets in front, and I think he's been one of the better players in defence for us this year. He's no superstar, and he's not a number one defender, but as far as I'm concerned he has done his job week in, week out. That's more than what you can say for the rest of the side.

[la47]

http://carltonfc.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=131012

The one thing that he believes he can count on at Hawthorn that he couldn’t at Carlton, however, is the chance to take part in the finals in 2004.

“Initially we’ll be aiming for top eight at the minimum and we will take it from there, but I certainly wouldn’t have thought that a top four berth is out of the question. Once you’re in the finals, who knows what can happen?

Saw the game today, loved the OOF, classic Beauee

Don't mind the Hawks though, just a real shame you have him on your team

[Abaddon]

Originally posted by la47
The one thing that he believes he can count on at Hawthorn that he couldn’t at Carlton, however, is the chance to take part in the finals in 2004.

“Initially we’ll be aiming for top eight at the minimum and we will take it from there, but I certainly wouldn’t have thought that a top four berth is out of the question. Once you’re in the finals, who knows what can happen?

good find la47.
too bad beauy, too bad...:D