The Re-Building Of The AFC Has Begun!!!!!!!

[maccas_no1]

Re-Building is well and truely underway at The AFC;) In way it is a lil sad to see the likes of Carey and Smart retire but at the same time it is exciting to see where the clubs goes, Im looking forward to the next few years and if the club plays it's cards right then we should see not only good players develop into stars but for the club to once again atain Premiership Glory:D :D :D :D :D

So what does the rest of 2004 look like?? Not sure really, now that Carey has retired, I think we should play Burton out of FF have Rutten and Watts play out the rest of the season,I think we should get as many of the younger brigade playing as much as possible. Find out who has it and who doesnt and retain the best youngsters and trade, delist the rest;)

Thoughts????????

[poptiffscherry]

In regard to Brett Burton I along with every other Crows supporter would love to see him playing full forward on a regular basis, however with Neil Craig's inside knowledge as a fitness coach I think Neil may reckon that Burton's aerobic capacity will be somewhat wasted standing at full forward.

If Terry Wallace was to coach us next year, I would be looking for Burton to be a dead set certain starter in the FF possie, because I've heard Terry say on a number of occassions that Burton has all the attributes of a spectacular full forward.

[Tyson20]

renovating :p

[maccas_no1]

Originally posted by Tyson20
renovating :p

Yeah we have moved a few chairs already:)

[dyertribe]

Originally posted by poptiffscherry
however with Neil Craig's inside knowledge as a fitness coach I think Neil may reckon that Burton's aerobic capacity will be somewhat wasted standing at full forward.

Agreed, and it's one of the biggest myths in football.

What good is Brett Burton's ability to run all day if half his kicks turn out to be ineffective?

I'd take Burton's goalsense and marking ability - which are being wasted in the midfield - over this overrated aerobic capacity any day.

We're in the business of winning football games, not athletics meets.

[maccas_no1]

Originally posted by dyertribe
Agreed, and it's one of the biggest myths in football.

What good is Brett Burton's ability to run all day if half his kicks turn out to be ineffective?

I'd take Burton's goalsense and marking ability - which are being wasted in the midfield - over this overrated aerobic capacity any day.

We're in the business of winning football games, not athletics meets.

So do you think DT that Burton should be played at FF for the remainder of the year????

[Tyson20]

Originally posted by maccas_no1
Yeah we have moved a few chairs already:)

we have a fair bit of RFI...ur right it is exciting times around the AFC (or at least it will be in the years to come)..so like u i am looking forward to them...

i reckon our youngsters look promising and have shown good signs...

[dyertribe]

So do you think DT that Burton should be played at FF for the remainder of the year????

Definitely. Should never have been moved into the midfield - should've always been retained as a high-flying FF.

Burton can win you games from the goalsquare - from midfield/halfback he won't win you anything except possibly the AFL clanger count

[macca23]

Originally posted by dyertribe
Definitely. Should never have been moved into the midfield - should've always been retained as a high-flying FF.

Burton can win you games from the goalsquare - from midfield/halfback he won't win you anything except possibly the AFL clanger count

Amen brother!! ;)

[DaveW]

What's wrong with Welsh at full forward?

[jc67]

There's not much to gain by playing burton at ff this year.
IMO he should get a long tem injury and be our ff next year, in the mean time rutten and kreuger at ff (test em out).
Lets not try and win too many games now!!!! Brett is to good at FF for our purpose.

[jmorg1]

Originally posted by DaveW
What's wrong with Welsh at full forward?

He can't kick 50 goals a season.

[maccas_no1]

Originally posted by DaveW
What's wrong with Welsh at full forward?

Think he is better as a CHF he is a great crumber, also I think Welsh is more dangerous as a floating FF, change it up during the game and put the opposition under pressure;)

[poptiffscherry]

Welsh proved on Sunday that at 100% (Effort and fitness) he is capable of holding down the Full forward position, although I do believe Sundays effort was made possible by playing on Brian Harris, who would be far more suited to playing on a larger bodied Carey or Gehrig.

If Welsh was opposed to Dustin Fletcher, Matthew Scarlett, or any other half decent full backs, he'd really struggle, which is why he's so inconsistent. Leave him in the forward pocket, because his worth is definitely enough, for us to keep him next season atleast.

[maccas_no1]

Originally posted by dyertribe
Definitely. Should never have been moved into the midfield - should've always been retained as a high-flying FF.

Burton can win you games from the goalsquare - from midfield/halfback he won't win you anything except possibly the AFL clanger count

I totally agree, Burton at FF for the remainder of 2004;)

[poptiffscherry]

He's also a player that struggles when he's given the 1st or 2nd best defender. He's more suited to a pocket or flank where he is able to play against a lesser player.

[dyertribe]

Originally posted by poptiffscherry
He's also a player that struggles when he's given the 1st or 2nd best defender. He's more suited to a pocket or flank where he is able to play against a lesser player.

The typical 'tall small.'

[mymansyd]

Burton should be played in the forward 50 and fitted with an internal device that bloody zaps him every time he exits it.

If Craig's got any brains whatsoever, then Burton's midfielding days should be over and all our misery and heartache will come to an end. Let's face it, the poor fella hasn't quite grasped the skill of passing to another human being. Point him towards 4 sticks, however, he's not too bad (127-81 or 61% from his 94 games is a very respectable accuracy rate).

Sqwelsh should be persisted with out of a pocket or half-fwd. Burton's our full-forward, for mine. (It would be nice if he could beef up a bit over summer as well -- but I doubt he can).

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by dyertribe
Definitely. Should never have been moved into the midfield - should've always been retained as a high-flying FF.

Burton can win you games from the goalsquare - from midfield/halfback he won't win you anything except possibly the AFL clanger count Amen brother!!!!!!:)

Our call has been falling on deaf ears:(

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by poptiffscherry
If Welsh was opposed to Dustin Fletcher he'd really struggle Just out of interest have you seen the game against Essendon last year on a rainy friday night when Carey collided with the point post??????:confused:

[Jars458]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Amen brother!!!!!!:)

Our call has been falling on deaf ears:(

Its one thing just about all of us agree upon

Perhaps we can put in a joint coaching application between the lot of us.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Jars458
Its one thing just about all of us agree upon

Perhaps we can put in a joint coaching application between the lot of us. Can I be the bullsh*t artist that faces the media and dribbles a load of crap ala John Reid:D :) :p

[kirky]

You play Burton at full forward, that way he doesn't know what he is gonna do, neither does his opposition and neither do we. Makes for interesting forward play and he kicked 51 goals in 2002 at FF. Not a bad return I'd say.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by kirky
You play Burton at full forward, that way he doesn't know what he is gonna do, neither does his opposition and neither do we. Makes for interesting forward play and he kicked 51 goals in 2002 at FF. Not a bad return I'd say. Precisely. His unpredictability is his main weapon as a forward. Birdman himself doesn't know what he will do next so what hope does the defender standing him has and as you said he did kick 50+ goals in 2002.

[MaccasNeighbour]

The best thing about Burton at FF is he has much less opportunity to turn the ball over to the opposition.

[KingAragorn]

I could not agree more. Burton to full forward.

Although when is he due back? He has an injury at the moment so playing him in the forward lines when he comes back may well be the best thing for him.

We need to allow more of the youngsters time in the middle and on the wings so we can assess who will be best in the long term.

Also we need to decide which of the shorties to retain on the list. Gallager or Skippy.

My vote is on Skippy at the moment. But with 9 weeks to go and a proimise to play the youth it will be interesting to see which one of these two to keep. I believe that we can only play one of these at a time and to have two short players on the list is not good.

Maybe Skippy can develop into the crumbing forward player with short bursts in the middle?

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by KingAragorn
I could not agree more. Burton to full forward.

Although when is he due back? He has an injury at the moment so playing him in the forward lines when he comes back may well be the best thing for him.

We need to allow more of the youngsters time in the middle and on the wings so we can assess who will be best in the long term.

Also we need to decide which of the shorties to retain on the list. Gallager or Skippy.

My vote is on Skippy at the moment. But with 9 weeks to go and a proimise to play the youth it will be interesting to see which one of these two to keep. I believe that we can only play one of these at a time and to have two short players on the list is not good.

Maybe Skippy can develop into the crumbing forward player with short bursts in the middle?
I cannot be convinced that Burton is potentially a premiership FF.
That being the case find a plyer that will be.

Sorry to spoil the party, but unfortunately both Gallagher and Skippy will not make the cut for list retention.
Good SANFL players, fringe AFL, but thats all they'll be. And in list rebuilding they will make way for new blood.

[markgreyam]

i dont know what you guys see in burton.

he shirks any sort of physical contest and he cant kick. he is just a good athelete. he might go okay as a forward if we can make space for him to run away from his man, but if the forward line becomes crowded then he wont make the contest unless he can jump up the back of it.

i think burton should be traded along with mcleod. im sure we could get some good players for those two while people think they are still worth it.

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by markgreyam
i dont know what you guys see in burton.

he shirks any sort of physical contest and he cant kick. he is just a good athelete. he might go okay as a forward if we can make space for him to run away from his man, but if the forward line becomes crowded then he wont make the contest unless he can jump up the back of it.

i think burton should be traded along with mcleod. im sure we could get some good players for those two while people think they are still worth it.
Macca as a franchise Crow player will not be traded.

Yes I would trade Burton in a heartbeat.
I don't think he shirks physical contests, he just plays a gamestyle that is consistent with his bodyframe.

He would get killed if he tried to play a Roo type of game.

[markgreyam]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Yes I would trade Burton in a heartbeat.
I don't think he shirks physical contests, he just plays a gamestyle that is consistent with his bodyframe.

He would get killed if he tried to play a Roo type of game.

I'm not suggesting he play a Roo type of game, of course he will get smashed, I'm just saying that he doesn't go after the ball at all once it touches the ground. I've seen him physically stop himself when another player is going after a loose ball on the ground to avoid contact.

Play him at FF and all you'll need is a backman that is prepared to put him under physical pressure in a marking contest and he will struggle. I wonder if he has been crunched at some point in his playing history and I've missed it, cause he seems to play a lot like he is constantly concious of the possibility of physical contact instead of just assuming it will be there and bracing for it.

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by markgreyam
I'm not suggesting he play a Roo type of game, of course he will get smashed, I'm just saying that he doesn't go after the ball at all once it touches the ground. I've seen him physically stop himself when another player is going after a loose ball on the ground to avoid contact.

Play him at FF and all you'll need is a backman that is prepared to put him under physical pressure in a marking contest and he will struggle. I wonder if he has been crunched at some point in his playing history and I've missed it, cause he seems to play a lot like he is constantly concious of the possibility of physical contact instead of just assuming it will be there and bracing for it.
Understand where your coming from.
As a KP he would receive a lot of physical attention. If he were to play as a second FF, with a taller more physical main KP FF, then I think that setup could be quite effective.

Who that player is I'm not sure. Kruegerhas been mentioned, but I haven't seen him play.

[markgreyam]

well, if the crows arent going to listen to me :) and trade him, then i suppose what youre suggesting would be an alternative. at least that way he is recieving crap kicks from the midfield, instead of contributing to them :)

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by markgreyam
well, if the crows arent going to listen to me :) and trade him, then i suppose what youre suggesting would be an alternative. at least that way he is recieving crap kicks from the midfield, instead of contributing to them :)
Think its a bit unfair to label him a poor disposer/decision maker.

In fact generally he's pretty good, despite some on the board who disagree.

But when Burton is off the boil, or coming back from an injury the difference between his good and bad is the size of the grand canyon.

When playing badly everything is off, his timing of marks, disposal and decision making.

We tend to remember those games and label him accordingly.

[markgreyam]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Think its a bit unfair to label him a poor disposer/decision maker.

sorry, my point was more the fact that the entire crows midfield seem to either want to kick sharp passes to deep into the forward pockets, or just kick fscking hospital balls into the goal square or 10 meters out from it. its wasnt a deliberate go at burton, even though i think that he is one of the many that does this repeatedly. the majority of them seem to.

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by markgreyam
sorry, my point was more the fact that the entire crows midfield seem to either want to kick sharp passes to deep into the forward pockets, or just kick fscking hospital balls into the goal square or 10 meters out from it. its wasnt a deliberate go at burton, even though i think that he is one of the many that does this repeatedly. the majority of them seem to.
Watched Carlton play Richmond last week and what really stood out was that Pagan has them kicking long into the forward line, but more importantly very low, which gave the defenders less time to intercept or spoil.
It happened too frequently and by too many players to be a coincidence.

The Crows problem stems from having midfield players
who can't kick the ball either long or long and low. They chip away all the time - Skippy, Shirley,Bode, Gallagher...

This aspect of our game has not received enough coaching focus IMO.

Bock kicks shocking hospital ball - some-one needs to get to this lad quickly.

Begley, Hart, and Hentshell are wonderful kicks coming out of defence, we just don't have those type of precision kick players in the midfield.

Reilly is good, Sugar was fantastic, Mattner keeps the ball long and low, and Goody and macca can be good.
But we're scratching after that

[topjars]

Originally posted by maccas_no1
Re-Building is well and truely underway at The AFC;) In way it is a lil sad to see the likes of Carey and Smart retire but at the same time it is exciting to see where the clubs goes, Im looking forward to the next few years and if the club plays it's cards right then we should see not only good players develop into stars but for the club to once again atain Premiership Glory:D :D :D :D :D

So what does the rest of 2004 look like?? Not sure really, now that Carey has retired, I think we should play Burton out of FF have Rutten and Watts play out the rest of the season,I think we should get as many of the younger brigade playing as much as possible. Find out who has it and who doesnt and retain the best youngsters and trade, delist the rest;)

Thoughts????????

Good Idea.
However; Craig will be keen to make his mark and stamp his style on his would-be beheaders.

I think its a bit like a good Pizza - You cant rush it. (in reference to young players coming on)

Look at Skipworth- He seemingly was gone for all money until he pulled out the photograph of JR knee trembling some Melbourne Football Club board member....sic ;)

But he was saved and is now firmly in the top 3 players of his age that I would keep and re-sign.

As for all the others we havent seen play AFL yet... the only way to TRY them out is to give them 3 games each in a row so they can show thier salt....then we can delist them with a clear conscience.

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by topjars

Look at Skipworth- He seemingly was gone for all money until he pulled out the photograph of JR knee trembling some Melbourne Football Club board member....sic ;)

But he was saved and is now firmly in the top 3 players of his age that I would keep and re-sign.

You are kidding:eek:

On the back of one game!

Gee I wish I could turn my defficiencies around that quick.

He's gone - mark my words.

[dicko]

Here is a boy we should be targeting for the draft

HE stands 195cm tall, has the aerobic capacity of a midfielder and is equally adept in attack as he is defence.

And he could be the answer to West Coast Eagles fans' prayers.

Lance "Buddy" Franklin may only be 17, but already he is being labelled the standout key-position player in this year's AFL national draft.

[topjars]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
You are kidding:eek:

On the back of one game!

Gee I wish I could turn my defficiencies around that quick.

He's gone - mark my words.

I betcha $100 bucks he stays:p

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by topjars
I betcha $100 bucks he stays:p
Being a nice fella, I'll just bookmark till the end of the year.
Surely opinions can't vary from week to week;)

[topjars]

Your moneys safe with me........he heh

Who else thinks Skipworth will be kept!!

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by dicko
Here is a boy we should be targeting for the draft

HE stands 195cm tall, has the aerobic capacity of a midfielder and is equally adept in attack as he is defence.

And he could be the answer to West Coast Eagles fans' prayers.

Lance "Buddy" Franklin may only be 17, but already he is being labelled the standout key-position player in this year's AFL national draft. I have heard some huge wraps on the kid and apparently he can also play in the ruck. I somehow doubt the AFC will got for talls this draft. Personally I would trade into the top 10 so we have 2 picks. One for midfielder and another one for ruckman/KPP.

I think Buddy will end up at Hawks. They need some young, quality tall timber.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by topjars
Your moneys safe with me........he heh

Who else thinks Skipworth will be kept!! I think he would be the 1st on the list to delist. One good game doesn't make a career. He still has some major flaws in his game that will get exposed at AFL level.

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I have heard some huge wraps on the kid and apparently he can also play in the ruck. I somehow doubt the AFC will got for talls this draft. Personally I would trade into the top 10 so we have 2 picks. One for midfielder and another one for ruckman/KPP.

I think Buddy will end up at Hawks. They need some young, quality tall timber.
I've been saying it is critical to get that 2nd high pick this year.
A year of quality talls is not the year not to pick a tall with your 1st draft pick!

Deledio is predicted to go B4 Franklin at this early stage - but a lot of water still to go uder the bridge with U18 championships soon.

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I think he would be the 1st on the list to delist. One good game doesn't make a career. He still has some major flaws in his game that will get exposed at AFL level.
:D :D :D :D :D agree:D :D :D

[spindoctor]

Can you please explain to me what those deficiencies are? I've heard that line a lot, but no one really says what they actually are.

He has the following though:

- good goal-sense as a crumber
- medium pace (not fast, not slow)
- hard at the ball
- hard worker
- excellent disposal

what are the deficiencies that he couldnt command a spot as good as many other second-tier midfielders in the comp?

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by spindoctor
Can you please explain to me what those deficiencies are? I've heard that line a lot, but no one really says what they actually are.

He has the following though:

- good goal-sense as a crumber
- medium pace (not fast, not slow)
- hard at the ball
- hard worker
- excellent disposal

what are the deficiencies that he couldnt command a spot as good as many other second-tier midfielders in the comp? Yes he has those qualities apart form the excellent disposal. His disposal is good but not excellent. Some of the flaw I see in his game are:

- not a penetrating kick
- for a bloke of his size he doesn't have many tricks to separate him from the rest of the undersized players
- gets caught with the ball too often
- can't break a tackle
- is a slow thinker when the pressure is on
- as I said a bloke his size must have tricks and pace to survive at AFL level and his pace is not good enough for his size
- not a great tackler because of his frame the opposition breaks his tackles easily.

If Skipworth was taller he might survive because some of the flaws that he has are size related. His best bet to make it would be as a crumbing forward.

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by spindoctor
Can you please explain to me what those deficiencies are? I've heard that line a lot, but no one really says what they actually are.

He has the following though:

- good goal-sense as a crumber
- medium pace (not fast, not slow)
- hard at the ball
- hard worker
- excellent disposal

what are the deficiencies that he couldnt command a spot as good as many other second-tier midfielders in the comp?
1)Too slow for a player of his height and build - can't bulk up much more, as he will loose even more pace.

2) Disposal is limited to 40 mtrs max. 90% of his kicks are 20 mtr link passes.

3)Lacks pace over the first 10 mtres to break away from congested areas - leads to primarily handballs or as the case last match turns a 180 degree arc to lose the opposition player. A coach would want a player of his size to have the pace to run a straight line towards goal, not continually turn back on himself.

4) apart from a fantastic attitude and work effort - his strengths as a small player are limited. At the slower SANFL pace his game is fine.

[spindoctor]

He certainly looked the best of anyone we've tried as our forward line crumber. Worth persisting with there methinks.

[tinman]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Lacks pace over the first 10 mtres to break away from congested areas - leads to primarily handballs or as the case last match turns a 180 degree arc to lose the opposition player.

Agree that he has difficulty in breaking tackles becasue of his size, and we are still to see if he can adjust to the pace of AFL footy. He will need to show this over the next few weeks.

Not sure about the pace over 10m? Wasn't he in the top 10 at the draft camp?? That was awhile ago I know......

[maccas_no1]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I think he would be the 1st on the list to delist. One good game doesn't make a career. He still has some major flaws in his game that will get exposed at AFL level.

I also think he will be delisted also, he is not upto AFL standard and we have a few better players who also play a similar position

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by tinman

Not sure about the pace over 10m? Wasn't he in the top 10 at the draft camp?? That was awhile ago I know......
Yes he was, but he wasn't carrying any weight then.
Had to bulk up for AFL - has affected his pace, he doesn't cover the ground easily, always seems to be working hard.

Doubt he has another gear, no matter how much he becomes accustomed to the pace of AFL.

[topjars]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
:D :D :D :D :D agree:D :D :D

Youll see:cool:

[Wayne's-World]

Originally posted by topjars
Youll see:cool:
Look I admire your support for Skippy.
Each player on our list has his/her supporters.

But the list is going to be drastically overhauled:eek:
Which means all fringe players are on notice.

Our midfield is in urgent need of a talent injection.
I've heard of up to 12 changes to our list - thats a third of the list.
That means a lot of this boards fav players are going to go.

If you do the calculations as well

Skippy will be #1;)