wirra

[cartman]

from the early talk wirra is like danny a dead man walking, woosha thinks he's tradable looks like going to the pies ,dont know who for

[daddy_4_eyes]

Got any Worsfold quotes that support what you just wrote?

Whats your source on Wirra likely going to Pies?

What will Collingwood offer us? Rhyce Shaw and a 3rd rd pick if we're lucky?

[Mr Q]

Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes
What will Collingwood offer us? Rhyce Shaw and a 3rd rd pick if we're lucky?

That would be over-generous from Collingwood. More like Rhys Shaw, Ben Kinnear, Joffa and we have to pay 50% of Wirra's salary...

[Streaker]

Woewodin, too expensive. Tarkyn Lockyer would be nice. Probably be offered Neon Leon.

I seriously can't see us giving up Wirrpunda.

[bunsen burner]

I can definitely see us trading Wirra. Collingwood have no one who we want - except their first pick or second pick.

[jod23]

Collingwood have absolutely nobody that I can see us being interested in.

[Mark Viduka]

Wirra is gone. He is 24... so to the clubs in Melbourne he looks attractive because of his age... but he has been playing for 8 years now.... Wirra himself said he feels like he has the body of a 30 year old because of all the injuries he has had.

Given that some Eagles players retire by the age of 27-28.... Wirra may struggle to get himself up for another 2 or 3 years. We should do what the Kangaroos did with Carey.... get rid of him now while he is worth something... we'll get a top 10 pick... and in 2 or so years Wirra's body will have given up and everyone will say what a great trade it was.

[Thrawn666]

Good to see Wirra is a dead cert to be traded for the 7th consecutive year :rolleyes:

[Mark Viduka]

Originally posted by Thrawn666
Good to see Wirra is a dead cert to be traded for the 7th consecutive year :rolleyes:

Difference is every other year he has been playing well and its been the Victorian media/supporters saying Wirrapunda is being traded.

This year its Eagles supporters because he is not playing well at all.

[bunsen burner]

I don't want him traded because his lack of form this year - that would be fickle. I want him traded because he is surplus to our needs. I really rate him as a player but would like us to trade for a KPP or early draft pick depending on who is available in the draft (ie our first pick and Wirra for pick #2 or #3).

[Mark Viduka]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
I don't want him traded because his lack of form this year - that would be fickle. I want him traded because he is surplus to our needs. I really rate him as a player but would like us to trade for a KPP or early draft pick depending on who is available in the draft (ie our first pick and Wirra for pick #2 or #3).

We have to do whats best for our team. Wirra's best days are behind him. He is not going to improve and he is still worth a lot on the trade table. In 12 months he won't be worth anywhere near as much. We have to get rid of him now while we can still get something for him.

[Clayton]

Wirra has as much raw talent as anyone who has played for the Eagles, I know it's a big Call.

But injuries have really cut him down & I agree with Robbie Walls that he has probably coasted for much of his career. We have only really seen glimpses of his best.

Having said that he's one of my fav players & I'd like him to be retained because of what he can add to our defense.
If push came to shove & we did trade him i think we'd get some quality for him like a first rounder.

[Streaker]

Talk about devaluing and underrating players. Wirra and our first pick (around 6 to 12) for Pick 2 or 3. You have got to be kidding.

Kasey Green and our first pick for pick 2 or 3 I could understand. Even Wirrpunda and our second pick for pick 2 or 3 would be closer.

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by West Coast Stre
Talk about devaluing and underrating players. Wirra and our first pick (around 6 to 12) for Pick 2 or 3. You have got to be kidding.

Kasey Green and our first pick for pick 2 or 3 I could understand. Even Wirrpunda and our second pick for pick 2 or 3 would be closer.

I estimate Wirra on his own would be worth about pick 10-12. If we have pick 8, we'd have to give up that pick and close to Wirra to get the top tradeable pick (that's if my assumption that you can't trade priority picks is correct). You also have to take into account that if the pick we are trading for is the one that can secure Polak, we'll have to pay more than market value.

If it came down to it, our first pick and Wirra as a direct swap for Polak would be a good deal. Polak may not be valued at that much, but considering we really need a player like Polak it is more than worth it. Wirra is replaceable a draft pick most likely won't mature quick enough for what the Eagles need.

nb: Kasey Green is worth almost nothing.

[jod23]

I think we should all line up and kick Wirra out the door when he is leaving. Perhaps we could throw rocks at him aswell.

You lot are unbelieveably loyal :rolleyes:

[Mark Viduka]

Originally posted by jod23
I think we should all line up and kick Wirra out the door when he is leaving. Perhaps we could throw rocks at him aswell.

You lot are unbelieveably loyal :rolleyes:

ok here is a question for you..... do you think Jakovich should have kept playing for the remainder of this year and next... stopping someone like Hansen making his debut?

Do youw ant us to have a team full of cripples just because of your "loyalty". Perhaps we can get Peter Sumich to pull on the boots again just out of loyalty.

Honestly... its people like you that are the reason Carlton and Adelaide are at the bottom of the ladder. Short sightedness.

[Streaker]

So now Wirrpunda is a cripple!:confused: Jakovich should have retired last year but Wirrpunda is no cripple.

When it comes to trading we have quite a few options and Yes Wirrpunda is one of them, but I wouldn't consider trading him just for the sake of trading him. Trading him now "while we can get something for him" makes him sound as if he is on his last legs.

It's all well and good saying that he isn't as good as he used to be but consider just what it is he does for the team and how valuable that is.

Given that some Eagles players retire by the age of 27-28.... Wirra may struggle to get himself up for another 2 or 3 years.
And then again he might play another 7 years.

Name 5 players who do a better job than him in the position he plays?

[mick ryan]

Originally posted by jod23
Collingwood have absolutely nobody that I can see us being interested in.

Even if they did Malthouse wouldn't offer anything worthwhile, he hasn't got a clue about the worth of players when it comes to trading just look at the farcical situation re Nick Stevens.

[Mark Viduka]

Originally posted by West Coast Stre
So now Wirrpunda is a cripple!:confused: Jakovich should have retired last year but Wirrpunda is no cripple.

You should get a bit closer to the club then. Wirrpunda is a cripple. He struggles to get his body right for most games.

Originally posted by West Coast Stre
When it comes to trading we have quite a few options and Yes Wirrpunda is one of them, but I wouldn't consider trading him just for the sake of trading him. Trading him now "while we can get something for him" makes him sound as if he is on his last legs.

You don't want to trade him while he is on his last legs becasue his value will be ZERO. Thats the point. He is 1 or 2 years away from that so we can either trade him now.. get a top 10 pick... or keep him for 2 years and he retires and we get nothing.

Originally posted by West Coast Stre
It's all well and good saying that he isn't as good as he used to be but consider just what it is he does for the team and how valuable that is.

I agree he still does a job for the team.... but you have to weigh it up. Is he going to bring something to the team that someone else couldn't. For instance.... would you swap Wirrapunda for Jonathan Hay? I would suggest that would benefit our team.

Originally posted by West Coast Stre
And then again he might play another 7 years.

If Wirrapunda plays until he is 32 then I will eat my own excrement. He already said he has the body of a 30 year old when he is 24 so he has no chance.

Originally posted by West Coast Stre
Name 5 players who do a better job than him in the position he plays?
This year? Most of the team.

[Mark Viduka]

Originally posted by mick ryan
Even if they did Malthouse wouldn't offer anything worthwhile, he hasn't got a clue about the worth of players when it comes to trading just look at the farcical situation re Nick Stevens.

Malthouse is stuck in the 90's. He thinks he is back at the Eagles where he can trade David Hynes to Fremantle for Phil Matera and get Gardiner with a pick from giving away Ian Downsborough. He has to learn that the days of conning clubs into giving away draft picks has gone.

[daddy_4_eyes]

Originally posted by Mark Viduka
Honestly... its people like you that are the reason Carlton and Adelaide are at the bottom of the ladder. Short sightedness.

And its people like you that give our club the image of "corporate entity" rather than football club. Wirrpunda has been loyal to us and could have demanded to move back to Vic long ago, but he stayed. If we show a lack of loyalty to players like him, what reason do players like Judd have to show loyalty to the club?

[Streaker]

Originally posted by Mark Viduka
If Wirrapunda plays until he is 32 then I will eat my own excrement.

No need to eat any more as I think you are already full of it.

[Mark Viduka]

Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes
And its people like you that give our club the image of "corporate entity" rather than football club. Wirrpunda has been loyal to us and could have demanded to move back to Vic long ago, but he stayed. If we show a lack of loyalty to players like him, what reason do players like Judd have to show loyalty to the club?

Chris Judd is a bit more level headed than that. He knows if you don't perform in this game you are out on your ear. Anyway I think you are slightly overrating Wirrpunda's worth as a player. Like I said... how many times has Wirrpunda finished top 5 in the best and fairest? He is a extremely likable guy who can be exciting at times but also plays loose and can hurt us just as much. He is no champion... he is no Cousins or Judd.... so don't make him out to be one. Yes he could have gone back to Victoria years ago... but after he played about 8 games in 4 years we could also have thrown him on the scrapheap and we didn't.

[llosis]

This is the way I see the Wirra situation.

On current form, we are a mid table team. Maybe most of us thought we would be better than that, but realistically top 4 on potential is pushing it (regardless of Gardy's knee etc).

The last thing we want is mid table mediocrity and yet with the list we have that is most likely where we sit.

So the club at years end will want to do something about that, starting with a review of the list.

1. Some players on the list have some upside which the club will hope, given more preseasons and time, will develop into consistent high level performers (eg McDougall, Staker, Waters and plenty of others).

2. Some players have been on the fringes for some time and have played only a relatively small number of games and a decision will be made to let them go or keep them (eg Munro, Humm, Adkins etc)

3. Other players have been regular senior members of the side for some time and yet whilst they may have performed well in the past due to age, injury, displacement from younger players they are no longer seen as essential to the future of the club as their potential to improve is nil and their ability to maintain their best is limited (eg Collica, Morrison, and I would say Wirrapunda)

4. Then we have our elite performers who produce week in and week out at a consistently high level which is reflected in B&F voting at the end of the year (eg Cousins, Judd, Kerr, Gardy etc)

In a review of a club list like this you have to ask yourself the question, where do we improve?

One way is to expect natural improvement in catergory 1.
Another is to delist players in catergory 2 and replace via the draft with, hopefully, better players/ players with more potential.

Another is trade players in catergory 3 (and possibly 4) for players who offer something to club they are coming to that they don't necessarily for the club they are coming from. Wirra fits in this category.

His past two seasons have been disappointing. Injury free he hasn't produced as expected for whatever reason. He is a player of immense skill and may, in a new environment, play at a level that gets close to his level of skill. In other words there is potential for improvement at a new club that there might not be at the eagles. Similarly we see players return to their home states via trades or look for new starts (eg Barry Hall) and produce at level higher than where they were.

Wirra is not going to improve with us. He will keep producing at his current level for some time yet. However at the present moment he is an attractive, tradeable player. A couple of years time however, not so. Look at someone like Chad Morrison for example. Before his knees we would have got a decent player / high pick in return - not so now. I know Wirra hasn't done his knees so there is no need to aimlessly point out the difference between the two examples.

The similarity though is the timeline. We have a window on Wirra's value that is undoubtedly getting smaller and smaller. If we want to improve our list we need to give something to get something. We need to give something that hurt us the least and help someone else (at least in principle). If trading Wirra gives us the chance to get a Polak or a Franklin then we would be stupid not to trade.

[Mark Viduka]

Originally posted by llosis
The similarity though is the timeline. We have a window on Wirra's value that is undoubtedly getting smaller and smaller. If we want to improve our list we need to give something to get something. We need to give something that hurt us the least and help someone else (at least in principle). If trading Wirra gives us the chance to get a Polak or a Franklin then we would be stupid not to trade.
Finally someone who understands AFL football.

[Streaker]

Originally posted by Mark Viduka
You should get a bit closer to the club then.

Oh thats right I remember now. Ex Player. Red shirt. Goes by the name of Danny_Green . Fool

[Exeter]

Originally posted by jod23
Collingwood have absolutely nobody that I can see us being interested in.

Tarrant.

[coasting]

For people wanting to trade him, I have still yet to see any reasonable argument as to who will take Wirra's spot in the back pocket. At least in key positions we have young guys who could turn into good players with some more experience. I don't see any young players on our list who could become a decent small defender.

[llosis]

Originally posted by coasting
For people wanting to trade him, I have still yet to see any reasonable argument as to who will take Wirra's spot in the back pocket. At least in key positions we have young guys who could turn into good players with some more experience. I don't see any young players on our list who could become a decent small defender.

The fact is we do need a close checking BP - as this is something that Wirra is not; close checking.

As far as a rebounding player small backman goes (Wirra's forte) I think Mark Nicoski is the heir apparent in that area.

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by coasting
For people wanting to trade him, I have still yet to see any reasonable argument as to who will take Wirra's spot in the back pocket. At least in key positions we have young guys who could turn into good players with some more experience. I don't see any young players on our list who could become a decent small defender. You obviously can't read.

1. Nicoski
2. Waters
3. Chick
4. Selwood

[coasting]

Originally posted by llosis
As far as a rebounding player small backman goes (Wirra's forte) I think Mark Nicoski is the heir apparent in that area.

I like Nicoski, he could be a good player for us but he aint a natural back pocket. He is being played way too deep in defence and he has struggled. He is a batter player than he has shown in recent times. Move him up the ground.

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by coasting
Move him up the ground.

1. Cousins
2. Judd
3. Kerr
4. Fletcher
5. Braun
6. Butler
7. Selwood
8. Embley
9. Nicoski
10. Chick
11. Adkins

How many on ballers do you want? We have a surplus of onballer/utility type players. It is easy to find one that can be developed into a back pocket specialist. Impossible to develop one into a KPP.

You also haven't explained Waters as not right for the back pocket.

[Clayton]

Wirra should be rotated from the back pocket to the wing more. I agree that we have alot of On-ballers but I reckon I've seen him play better in that postion, even though he says he's more comfortable in defense.

I reckon Waters looks like he's gonna have a bright future down back,

[Streaker]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
You obviously can't read.

1. Nicoski
2. Waters
3. Chick
4. Selwood

Nor can you! He did say small defender . Nicoski and Selwood and even Waters are a bit tall to be called small .

[Mead]

Originally posted by West Coast Stre
Nor can you! He did say small defender . Nicoski and Selwood and even Waters are a bit tall to be called small .

.. you don't get bonus points for fielding defenders under a certain height.

In my book, a small defender is one capable of playing on small forwards, the critical issue being their pace, tenacity, and ability to stay with them. If they happen to have a bit of extra height, bully for them, its a bonus.

Nicoski has had some wins and some losses in that role so far this season, but has certainly done enough to suggest he's capable of playing on the small, fast forwards, and Selwood seems to have the right attributes to handle the job.

Personally, at the moment I'd back Nicoski over Wirrpunda on any quality small forward, full stop. The latter really struggles for accountability. I think that makes Nico more of a small, close checking defender than Wirrpunda.

[cartman]

back to the start , i got my info off peter jolly brother of martin he runs img aust, i now see today in the herald sun that they also say wirra could feature in trade talks, maybe they think we might take leon or even williams back, sorry only a joke

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by West Coast Stre
Nor can you! He did say small defender . Nicoski and Selwood and even Waters are a bit tall to be called small .
Small defender refers to the height of the player they play on. Small defenders don't necessarily have to be small in height, they have to be quick and agile and be able to compete with players like Milne and Medhurst.


Beau Waters: 187cm
Mark Nicoski: 187cm
Chris Johnson: 180cm
James Clement: 190cm
Gavin Wanganean: 181cm
Mathew Lappin: 181cm

[Mark Viduka]

Originally posted by West Coast Stre
Nor can you! He did say small defender . Nicoski and Selwood and even Waters are a bit tall to be called small .

Who says you have to be 175cm to be considered a small defender. Look at who opposition teams put on Phil Matera. Usually its a 185cm backman who can run with him.

Wirrpunda's days are numbered. Notice who is taking more and more of the kickins these days.... its not Wirrapunda. The Eagles are already planning for life without him.

[coasting]

Originally posted by Mark Viduka
Who says you have to be 175cm to be considered a small defender. Look at who opposition teams put on Phil Matera. Usually its a 185cm backman who can run with him.

Wirrpunda's days are numbered. Notice who is taking more and more of the kickins these days.... its not Wirrapunda. The Eagles are already planning for life without him.

I don't think Matera ever plays against anyone his own height. When I say 'small defender' I mean how they play, not their actual height - IE someone who can handle elusive forward pockets like Matera, Farmer etc. Waters will be a good player in time but those sorts of players would worry him big time. Likewise Nicoski was carved up by Davey when he played on him. Selwood was played much better as a run-with player than in defence while Chick is hit and miss.

Wirra doesn't take the kickouts because he has lost confidence. Notice how he doesn't do any 75m torps anymore? Thats because he is playing without confidence. When he regains it with the rest of team I think you will see the real Wirrapunda come through.

[hoss]

You can't trade the really poor performers - they're not worth anything. Kasey Green doesn't have enough of a reputation in WA let alone Vic or SA. This is why Wirra would be a perfect trade. I reckon the Eagles would get a 10-15 pick for him. He's young enough and has enough of a rep to be traded. Those with inside knowledge know that like Brett Heady was, he is much older in body than age - therefore is not of much benefit to the Eagles who are rebuilding a team of young upcomers.

[leonmagic]

Do you think you guys would accept:

Tristen Walker + Pick 20-25 for Wirra?

[daddy_4_eyes]

Originally posted by leonmagic
Do you think you guys would accept:

Tristen Walker + Pick 20-25 for Wirra?

No

First round pick thanks. We're not after fringe players.

[Black JuJu]

Originally posted by leonmagic
Do you think you guys would accept:

Tristen Walker + Pick 20-25 for Wirra?

Walker? nah mate, I rate you higher than most Pies fans on here but I also know Pies fans never throw around names of players they rate ;) . We've got loads of young talls at the club already who are as good or better than Walker - he'd join the queue.

Would hope for a 1st round pick if he was to be traded, doesn't have to be a low one.

[llosis]

Originally posted by Black JuJu
Would hope for a 1st round pick if he was to be traded, doesn't have to be a low one.

I'd rather another draft pick 3rd round plus than Walker.

Collingwood are ever so hopeful when it comes to bandying about names for trade. I th0ink they believe too much of their own (never ending) publicity.

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by leonmagic
Do you think you guys would accept:

Tristen Walker + Pick 20-25 for Wirra? I very much doubt it. I'd say the Eagles would be looking for around #10-12. Walker and 20-25 is nowhere close.

And who would have someone on their list called Tristen? That's a nancy boy's name. He'd never be taken serious and would get sledged all the time for being a mummy's boy.

[Jabber]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
And who would have someone on their list called Tristen? That's a nancy boy's name. He'd never be taken serious and would get sledged all the time for being a mummy's boy.

Unless he bulks up like "Quinten"

[Jabber]

Originally posted by coasting
I don't think Matera ever plays against anyone his own height.

Thats true because it is impossible for Matera to play on anyone his own height - he is 171cm.

Originally posted by coasting
Wirra doesn't take the kickouts because he has lost confidence. Notice how he doesn't do any 75m torps anymore? Thats because he is playing without confidence. When he regains it with the rest of team I think you will see the real Wirrapunda come through.

Wirra's confidence is shot because the coach is bagging him in the media. He is being set up for a mutually agreed trade.

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by Jabber
Unless he bulks up like "Quinten" Good point. I'm sure anyone who teased him about that nancy boy name at school did so from the other side of a big solid fence.

[carneagles]

That may also be why we've recruited every Chad in the AFL. Safety in numbers.

[Streaker]

Originally posted by carneagles
That may also be why we've recruited every Chad in the AFL. Safety in numbers.

Just need that nancy boy Chad Cornes to make the full set.

[llosis]

Originally posted by West Coast Stre
Just need that nancy boy Chad Cornes to make the full set.

That's it!

Wirra for Chad Cornes! Genius!!

[BulldogMike]

Wirra might end up at the Doggies. What would you want from us?

[coasting]

Originally posted by mike2j7
Wirra might end up at the Doggies. What would you want from us?

Farren Ray

[Mead]

Originally posted by coasting
Farren Ray

Well yeah, Farren is a pretty faggy name, but I don't think it beats Tristan.

[Streaker]

Beau is a pretty name.

[Rookie]

Originally posted by mike2j7
Wirra might end up at the Doggies. What would you want from us?

HA! Not what we need at our club. Rohde would have no idea how to control him for starters, and where would we play him? We have enough unnaccountable backmen as it is. There is now way we need him and if we even considered trading for him I would be ****ed. No chance.

[Mead]

Originally posted by West Coast Stre
Beau is a pretty name.

Two words for you

Clancy Rudeforth..

Best name in the AFL.

[Voice of Reason]

Originally posted by Mead
Two words for you

Clancy Rudeforth..

Best name in the AFL.

..............but only because Graham Johncock's parents had no imagination. Make him a Richard or a Beau and we would have had a clear winner.