View Full Version : What do ya want for ya Carr
Pretty simple really. Im a huge dockers fan, what do you guys expect for J. Carr. Schammer and Pav is off limits, we really need to bolster our midfield, and losing one of them will not help us move forward.
Our 1st round pick looks to be somewhere between 10th-14th. Williams has claimed he wants players and not picks, if not the above two, who else on our list looks like a decent trade. Perhaps a 2nd rounder and an average player. Any ideas???
portentous
16 Aug 2004, 20:26
I'm very attached to the v8 supercarr so he's not for sale. What do you want for his brother??
Porthos
16 Aug 2004, 20:34
When Choco says he wants a player, he doesn't mean he wants a fringe player - we have enough of them. He would be talking about the sort of player you could virtually 1-for-1 to get, so that there would be no real loss in quality to the first 18.
Most likely he would angle for a 3-way with a Vic club. Plenty of good young South Aussies over there.
PortProudWA
16 Aug 2004, 21:57
Pretty simple really. Im a huge dockers fan, what do you guys expect for J. Carr. Schammer and Pav is off limits, we really need to bolster our midfield, and losing one of them will not help us move forward.
Our 1st round pick looks to be somewhere between 10th-14th. Williams has claimed he wants players and not picks, if not the above two, who else on our list looks like a decent trade. Perhaps a 2nd rounder and an average player. Any ideas???
Let's put it another way.....If you had Josh Carr, what would you think would be a suitable trade for him???
You say Pav and Shammer are off limits......So whom, who what do you think is a suitable replacement player for Port. If you think you need him so bad to boost your midfield.....what will it do for us??
I would be a ruthless list manager. No player is ahead of the team. So come trade time no one would be off limits. Well almost everyone.
Even so, Josh Carr is good, and we would like his hardness at the ball, we won't give up the world for him. I think a reasonable exchange would be the dockers 1st round pick.
The dockers will be fighting for a premiership in the next 3 years. So picks from this year are not likely to make a huge impact on the team. Especially since we will probably get no early picks.
Personally i would offer 1st round pick for Carr, Woods and 2nd rounder to the bulldogs for their 2nd pick. Trade our new higher 2nd rounder for Stenglein.
But if you don't want picks. I can't think of a player in the list that would be a direct swap. Personally all the following players are non-essentials and would be worth something on the trade table. Either of J. Longmuir or Simmonds or Polak (two must be kept). T. Longmuir, Grover, Browne, Cunningham and Woods.
Delistings would include: Waterhouse, Crowley, Doswell, Haines, Edgecumbe, Cunningham and McManus (unless he signs for very little money, currently on too much for his worth, contract ends this season - harsh, but thats how i would manage the list).
So take your pick from the above players. But i can't see anyone you'd want. Our 1st pick should be enough, but if Williams wants to play hardball, i think the deal won't go through. Of the 3 big names mentioned, we'd probably want a little more than just J.Carr, but only just a little more.
Ford Fairlane
17 Aug 2004, 00:11
Josh Carr was #7 in the 98 draft, he has played 100 games already and is a Port vice captain at 23. He will play, barring injury, at least 250 games and is a tough aggressive ball getting midfielder, exactly what Freo don't have. Not only should Schammer be on the table, a sweetener better be thrown in. That's not hard ball, that's simple reality. If you don't like it, you're not as ruthless as you think. Otherwise, as Porthos suggests, you send Polak interstate and find us something there.
Offering Freo's first round pick only is, to be blunt, an insult.
PortProudWA
17 Aug 2004, 06:59
I would be a ruthless list manager. No player is ahead of the team. So come trade time no one would be off limits. Well almost everyone.
Even so, Josh Carr is good, and we would like his hardness at the ball, we won't give up the world for him. I think a reasonable exchange would be the dockers 1st round pick.
The dockers will be fighting for a premiership in the next 3 years. So picks from this year are not likely to make a huge impact on the team. Especially since we will probably get no early picks.
Personally i would offer 1st round pick for Carr, Woods and 2nd rounder to the bulldogs for their 2nd pick. Trade our new higher 2nd rounder for Stenglein.
But if you don't want picks. I can't think of a player in the list that would be a direct swap. Personally all the following players are non-essentials and would be worth something on the trade table. Either of J. Longmuir or Simmonds or Polak (two must be kept). T. Longmuir, Grover, Browne, Cunningham and Woods.
Delistings would include: Waterhouse, Crowley, Doswell, Haines, Edgecumbe, Cunningham and McManus (unless he signs for very little money, currently on too much for his worth, contract ends this season - harsh, but thats how i would manage the list).
So take your pick from the above players. But i can't see anyone you'd want. Our 1st pick should be enough, but if Williams wants to play hardball, i think the deal won't go through. Of the 3 big names mentioned, we'd probably want a little more than just J.Carr, but only just a little more.
You have got to be kidding!! .........But I do believe your serious, a 1st pick for Josh......Sitting here just shaking my head, should expect nothing less from Freo though, part that makes me really laugh is this The dockers will be fighting for a premiership in the next 3 years.
Like FF said.....its an insult!!!
Josh Carr was #7 in the 98 draft, he has played 100 games already and is a Port vice captain at 23. He will play, barring injury, at least 250 games and is a tough aggressive ball getting midfielder, exactly what Freo don't have. Not only should Schammer be on the table, a sweetener better be thrown in. That's not hard ball, that's simple reality. If you don't like it, you're not as ruthless as you think. Otherwise, as Porthos suggests, you send Polak interstate and find us something there.
Offering Freo's first round pick only is, to be blunt, an insult.
What he said.
Our Carr has a high trade-in value so we are looking to obtain a luxury vehicle in return.
PJ Power
17 Aug 2004, 13:49
Our 1st pick should be enough, but if Williams wants to play hardball, i think the deal won't go through. Of the 3 big names mentioned, we'd probably want a little more than just J.Carr, but only just a little more.
No, your first pick will not be enough. In fact it is insulting to us and to Josh and his family to suggest that is how you value him.
Your point about the deal not going through is music to my ears. Exactly what Williams will be trying to achieve by playing hardball.
We do not want a deal. You are not doing us any favours by trying to poach Josh, so if we can dissuade your coaches and club that easily by playing hardball, that is a win for us.
Now, as much as I hate the Crows, that suggestion about getting Stenglein with a second round pick, was tongue in cheek wasn't it? :rolleyes:
Porthos
17 Aug 2004, 13:58
Stenglein probably isn't worth more than a second round pick, except to Adelaide.
crazy_big_al
17 Aug 2004, 14:04
I want a good trade. Sham and 2nd rounder. we need no more fringe players :p
Out of your midfielders where do you rate him? 4th/5th? This better not turn into another Des Headland deal for fremantle. You have far better midfielders than Carr, you may rate him but i don't think he is that good. We've been ripped off several times. It shouldn't happen again.
In reference to laughing at the dockers premiership chances. Laugh all you like, but you haven't come close in September either. And im afraid September is all about taking your opportunities while the window to win is open. For the last 2-3 years you've been amongst the best. And probably should have a flag at this stage.
All i was saying is that our opportunities will peak in the next 3 seasons. And if we are to make that step, it should be during this time period. But i didn't come here to have a crack at port. Came here to talk about trades.
The only reasonable suggestions anyone has made has been a three way deal involving a victorian based team. What South Aussies would you be interested in from over there. I'd be interested to see which other club could be involved.
You can't keep playing hardball, eventually it will bite you back, If a deal can't be struck with Fremantle and J. Carr enters the preseason draft it will be your loss not ours.
Anyway just trying to instigate some friendly chit chat about possible trades. Can't you guys come up with something better than Schammer+++.
I threw about the idea of a 1st round pick, clearly thats not to your liking. Someone in the media suggested that Williams was interested in Medhurst. Im not saying the dockers would be pleased with that loss, but its gotta add another dimension to this talk.
portentous
17 Aug 2004, 17:39
Out of your midfielders where do you rate him? 4th/5th? This better not turn into another Des Headland deal for fremantle. You have far better midfielders than Carr, you may rate him but i don't think he is that good. We've been ripped off several times. It shouldn't happen again.
In reference to laughing at the dockers premiership chances. Laugh all you like, but you haven't come close in September either. And im afraid September is all about taking your opportunities while the window to win is open. For the last 2-3 years you've been amongst the best. And probably should have a flag at this stage.
All i was saying is that our opportunities will peak in the next 3 seasons. And if we are to make that step, it should be during this time period. But i didn't come here to have a crack at port. Came here to talk about trades.
The only reasonable suggestions anyone has made has been a three way deal involving a victorian based team. What South Aussies would you be interested in from over there. I'd be interested to see which other club could be involved.
You can't keep playing hardball, eventually it will bite you back, If a deal can't be struck with Fremantle and J. Carr enters the preseason draft it will be your loss not ours.
Anyway just trying to instigate some friendly chit chat about possible trades. Can't you guys come up with something better than Schammer+++.
I threw about the idea of a 1st round pick, clearly thats not to your liking. Someone in the media suggested that Williams was interested in Medhurst. Im not saying the dockers would be pleased with that loss, but its gotta add another dimension to this talk.
You are now really showing your ignorance on the value of Carr to our side. GET REAL. He is our equal TOP midfielder, with James and Burgoyne, not 4th or 5th. He is one of a kind. You don't replace players like him easily. If your club is as delusional as you are, you don't have a snowflakes chance in hell of getting him.
I would be quite happy with that! :D
Ford Fairlane
17 Aug 2004, 17:45
Out of your midfielders where do you rate him? 4th/5th? This better not turn into another Des Headland deal for fremantle. You have far better midfielders than Carr, you may rate him but i don't think he is that good. We've been ripped off several times. It shouldn't happen again.
In reference to laughing at the dockers premiership chances. Laugh all you like, but you haven't come close in September either. And im afraid September is all about taking your opportunities while the window to win is open. For the last 2-3 years you've been amongst the best. And probably should have a flag at this stage.
All i was saying is that our opportunities will peak in the next 3 seasons. And if we are to make that step, it should be during this time period. But i didn't come here to have a crack at port. Came here to talk about trades.
The only reasonable suggestions anyone has made has been a three way deal involving a victorian based team. What South Aussies would you be interested in from over there. I'd be interested to see which other club could be involved.
You can't keep playing hardball, eventually it will bite you back, If a deal can't be struck with Fremantle and J. Carr enters the preseason draft it will be your loss not ours.
Anyway just trying to instigate some friendly chit chat about possible trades. Can't you guys come up with something better than Schammer+++.
I threw about the idea of a 1st round pick, clearly thats not to your liking. Someone in the media suggested that Williams was interested in Medhurst. Im not saying the dockers would be pleased with that loss, but its gotta add another dimension to this talk.
He's our vice captain and with Roger James our best hard ball getting midfielder. I put Schammer + on the table cos I can't see anything else Freo have got that we'd be interested in (other than Pavlich and you guys would lynch Connelly and Schwab if that was suggested). Medhurst - no thanks. He doesn't like the cold and we have enough small forwards. (although who knows with Choco, maybe he really said it). There's other SA players interstate we'd be interested in, but then you have to offer them something worthwhile.
If Carr only wants to go to Freo he won't go in the PSD to wind up at Hawthorn. Plenty of players have stayed at clubs if the trade they allegedly wanted didn't work out (Clive Waterhouse ring any bells?).
At the moment Freo are in danger of looking like going backwards on last year's efforts, so I'm not sure how successfully you can pitch a premiership in the next 3 years line at anyone.
Porthos
17 Aug 2004, 17:48
They probably lifted the Medhurst comment from cynical remarks from here about how Choco requires full-forwards to be under 6 foot. Its not a position that we need to fill, by any measure.
If Carr was going, the most obvious target as a replacement would be Scott Thompson from Melbourne. We'd certainly want a bit more than just him for Josh though, as he's a bit injury prone and still fairly unproven.
If we were confident of finding another nugget midfielder in the draft or by other means, then players like Minson at the Bulldogs, or Daniel Bell & Nick Smith at Melbourne would be on the list. They'd probably also consider Trent Sporn at Carlton, though I personally don't rate him. Josh Willoughby from Sydney would have to hold some sort of interest, I would think.
I imagine the possibility of Freo & Port swapping first round picks would be considered as an `extra' factor, though apparently this draft really tails off after the first five or six.
We would certainly have an interest in picking a player in the top 6 this year, with SA boys rated highly, along with Tambling who would fit in nicely at Port.
Ford Fairlane
17 Aug 2004, 17:58
I reckon if we lost Carr, and with Stevens gone, a question mark over Francou and James getting on, Choco would be gunning for an experienced 1st 18 midfielder. I doubt he'd care if he was an ex SA player cos if you get them over here at say 24-25 they'll probably stay anyway.
But of ex SA players - there's also Crouch at Sydney and Enright at Geelong.
Porthos
17 Aug 2004, 18:09
He's just signed a two year contract extension. I think he'd be comfortable enough to keep giving time to Cassisi, Cornes, Ebert and Salopek rather than jump at a full-price non-local.
I rate Crouch, but there's no way Sydney are letting him go. He's Wilson-esque for them. I've jumped right off Enright's bandwagon.
Ford Fairlane
17 Aug 2004, 18:15
He's just signed a two year contract extension. I think he'd be comfortable enough to keep giving time to Cassisi, Cornes, Ebert and Salopek rather than jump at a full-price non-local.
I rate Crouch, but there's no way Sydney are letting him go. He's Wilson-esque for them. I've jumped right off Enright's bandwagon.
What's put you off Enright? You were a big fan. I haven't seen much of Geelong or Enright this year to comment. I did see him get his jaw busted ...
Porthos
17 Aug 2004, 18:20
Well, mostly that in a team that has improved across the board, Enright showed no signs of now overdue improvement (before the injury).
He's a bit like a Cassisi thats lost its way, and I don't reckon we can sensibly pay the premium to get him and then give him enough game time to correct it for what could easily be only a minimal return.
Ford Fairlane
17 Aug 2004, 18:25
Well, mostly that in a team that has improved across the board, Enright showed no signs of now overdue improvement (before the injury).
He's a bit like a Cassisi thats lost its way, and I don't reckon we can sensibly pay the premium to get him and then give him enough game time to correct it for what could easily be only a minimal return.
Interesting. Never mind, there're other backyards we can look in ... ;)
Porthos
17 Aug 2004, 18:28
Indeed! I'd still take Enright, but he's no longer near the top of my list.
Maybe we could get that Koula fella that plays on the wing for them. He looks pretty handy.
Ford Fairlane
17 Aug 2004, 18:35
Maybe we could get that Koula fella that plays on the wing for them. He looks pretty handy.
Brings his own cheersquad too doesn't he? ;)
Get us Cooney and i'd be happy. Try trading Polak to the WB and see if they bite.
Get us Cooney and i'd be happy. Try trading Polak to the WB and see if they bite.
Polak has re-signed with the Dockers so he isn't a chance to trade.
Cooney was pretty impressive against us, although he wasn't targetted for a tag he showed some nice things around the packs.
Polak has re-signed with the Dockers so he isn't a chance to trade.
Oh well.
Cooney was pretty impressive against us, although he wasn't targetted for a tag he showed some nice things around the packs.
I'd take him in exchange for Carr. He'll be good, very good, shame he'll be wasting away at the Bulldogs.
Oh well.
I'd take him in exchange for Carr. He'll be good, very good, shame he'll be wasting away at the Bulldogs.
I don't think he'll waste away. He'll be back I think. Just a shame that the one I really want (Waters) is the one least likely to come back.
I don't think he'll waste away. He'll be back I think. Just a shame that the one I really want (Waters) is the one least likely to come back.
Waters also looks a likely type. I'd still seriously consider Enright, his value probably would have dropped over the past 12 months but i'd like to get him especially with Carr not a certainty and Rog, Schoey & Francou getting on a bit.
Porthos
17 Aug 2004, 19:44
If we had Cooney, we could get Waters.
If we had Cooney, we could get Waters.
How so Sohtrop?
Porthos
17 Aug 2004, 23:30
Well, good mates like to play in the same side. It'd at least be leverage!
An offer to come home and play with a good mate at a premiership club sounds about as good as it gets to me.
Has Luke Ball re-signed with the Saints yet? Best case scenario if it comes to an impasse:
Carr and #18 to Freo
Simmonds, #12 and #30 to St Kilda
Luke Ball and Fisher (?) to Port Adelaide Agression
Yes, I would give up Carr, our first-rounder (more like a second-rounder) and left nut for Ball + filler. A hefty price to pay, but a midfield of Ball, K. Cornes, Salopek, Ebert, Cassisi sets you up for 12+ years.
OK, I've been thinking over this, and that deal just ain't gonna fly.
Carr and #17 to Freo for Simmonds and #12
Salopek and Simmonds to the Saints for Ball and #18
We give up Carr, Salopek and #17, for Ball, #12 and #18. Package those two picks in a attempt to move up for Tambling...
Further to moving up for Tambling (worst case scenario, Ryan Griffen:
Dew and #12 for #4 (Hawthorn)
Synopsis:
Port give up Carr, Salopek, Dew, #17
Port receive Luke Ball, Richard Tambling/Ryan Griffen, #18 (misc. gun)
I know I am going to get flamed to all ends of the planet... but we're stocking up on the best of the best young talent right here. Might I add this is all contingent on Carr and Ball wanting out, so both us and and Kilda have our hands forced slightly.
Port 2005
FB Surjan Bishop Gilham
HB Wilson C. Cornes S. Burgoyne
C Cassisi Ball Kingsley
HF Mahoney Tredrea P. Burgoyne
F Thurstans White Pickett
1R Primus Francou K. Cornes
Int Brogan James Tambling Ebert
Perfect match of experience and youth, IMO, requiring in a change of undergarments. BRB.
So to answer your question, Simmonds and an exchange of first-rounders.
PS. I know I'm going to get killed for that line-up, and it is contingent on many things. But that is the best team in the AFL next year and beyond.
Porthos
18 Aug 2004, 09:06
Thats very elaborate Bresh, but the odds of Ball even considering leaving Melbourne when the bottom 3 sides are all Victorian would have to be virtually non existent.
I also reckon you're rating the appeal of Simmonds to other clubs too highly. You're saying that he's worth a fair bit more than pick #18, from what I can see.
Thats very elaborate Bresh, but the odds of Ball even considering leaving Melbourne when the bottom 3 sides are all Victorian would have to be virtually non existent.
I also reckon you're rating the appeal of Simmonds to other clubs too highly. You're saying that he's worth a fair bit more than pick #18, from what I can see.
My only issue with all of this is that to trade up we require Hawthorn to do what they have done over the past couple of years and trade draft picks. I think they'll hold onto any that they have given their failure this year stocking up with mid-tier players using draft picks.
Porthos
18 Aug 2004, 09:33
We have a friendly trading relationship with Terry Wallace, and Richmond love to trade picks.
portentous
18 Aug 2004, 09:37
We have a friendly trading relationship with Terry Wallace, and Richmond love to trade picks.
We're far more likely to be offered Fiora and a 2nd or 3rd round pick from the tiggers than one of their first ones though.
Porthos
18 Aug 2004, 09:40
Sure. Thats the point at which we laugh heartily though.
portentous
18 Aug 2004, 09:44
Sure. Thats the point at which we laugh heartily though.
The tiggers are used to being laughed at..... :D
We have a friendly trading relationship with Terry Wallace, and Richmond love to trade picks.
Terry's still bleeding from the beating we gave to him on the Eagleton trade.
However if Ayres gets in at Hawthorn then we may have a shot at getting that trade through.
And I've never been so jealous of the Bulldogs. I think Eade will work wonders down there. I think he may have learnt a hell of a lot about player management after Sydney and you combine that with his tactical nous and it is a hell of a combo.
Well, good mates like to play in the same side. It'd at least be leverage!
An offer to come home and play with a good mate at a premiership club sounds about as good as it gets to me.
It would be interesting to see what we would have to do to get both home. Independent of the supporters opinion, obviously every player has a trade value the club is willing to place on them.
portentous
18 Aug 2004, 09:57
Port 2005
FB Surjan Bishop Gilham
HB Wilson C. Cornes S. Burgoyne
C Cassisi Ball Kingsley
HF Mahoney Tredrea P. Burgoyne
F Thurstans White Pickett
1R Primus Francou K. Cornes
Int Brogan James Tambling Ebert
Perfect match of experience and youth, IMO, requiring in a change of undergarments. BRB.[/QUOTE]
I can see The Grew holding down FB sometime in the not too distant future too.
Eade is quoted in The Age today as saying he is "open" to trading the Dogs early picks, subject to his assessment of what's in the draught.
Ya gotta haggle, right?
Eade is quoted in The Age today as saying he is "open" to trading the Dogs early picks, subject to his assessment of what's in the draught.
Ya gotta haggle, right?
If only we held Morgan for another year :D
The word on the draft is that it falls away after the top 5-6. But they say that quite a bit don't they?
Porthos
18 Aug 2004, 10:17
Well, it generally does, though sometimes its even earlier.
I reckon Eade would love to get a player like Stuart Dew. 60m passes are a great tool from a tactical viewpoint.
portentous
18 Aug 2004, 10:23
Well, it generally does, though sometimes its even earlier.
I reckon Eade would love to get a player like Stuart Dew. 60m passes are a great tool from a tactical viewpoint.
Except he rarely kicks that far these days. Even his "long bombs" are pretty much "grubbers". Still I won't tell Eade if you won't! ;)
Except he rarely kicks that far these days. Even his "long bombs" are pretty much "grubbers". Still I won't tell Eade if you won't! ;)
Yeah I think the OP has restricted him from kicking em goal post height from 60 out anymore.
Well, it generally does, though sometimes its even earlier.
I reckon Eade would love to get a player like Stuart Dew. 60m passes are a great tool from a tactical viewpoint.
It is but the only way you can differentiate Dew and the rest of the Bulldogs is he is a bit larger and thus easier an easier target for Scott West to handpass to. He certainly wont help in the toughness stakes.
Porthos
18 Aug 2004, 10:32
The sad thing is that compared to some players currently in the side, he actually would help in the toughness stakes.
Fair call, and he did actually play well on Sat night which does well for his trade value.
portentous
18 Aug 2004, 10:37
The sad thing is that compared to some players currently in the side, he actually would help in the toughness stakes.
That says a lot more about the doggies than it does about Stewy... :rolleyes: