View Full Version : Terry up to it already.
itsintheblood
26 Aug 2004, 09:23
Tigers may take a punt on Rohde
26 August 2004 Herald Sun
Mark Stevens and Mark Robinson
TERRY Wallace has sounded out sacked Western Bulldogs coach Peter Rohde about a back-up role at Richmond next season.
The new Tigers coach met Rohde yesterday to gauge his interest in joining a revamped football department at Punt Rd.
Rohde, who will coach the Bulldogs for the final time against Essendon on Sunday, will spend the next fortnight pondering his future.
The interest in Rohde comes as the off-field purge begins at Richmond.
Football manager Greg Hutchison and assistant coach Paul Spargo are already gone.
Assistant Wayne Brittain's future also appears grim - he is believed to be sending out feelers to other clubs.
Recruiting manager Greg Beck's position is also under review. Only assistant coach Darren Crocker appears safe.
Wallace has cast the net far wider than Rohde and is hell-bent on assembling the best possible team.
He has spent recent days holding discussions with several candidates for roles in his team - from possible assistants to IT experts.
"I have not given a commitment to any one person at this stage," Wallace said last night.
Wallace is attracted by Rohde's all-round skills, witnessed first-hand when the pair worked together for three years at Whitten Oval.
"He is an extremely good operator across a lot of different paths," Wallace said.
"He could fit into football manager territory quite comfortably, he has a phys-ed background with experience in strength and conditioning and he has coached senior football for two years. He's just stepped out. He's got a very broad base. Why wouldn't I want to speak to him?"
Wallace has also spoken to his former football manager at the Bulldogs, Paul Armstrong, who is a certainty to take up a position at Richmond.
Armstrong, who has been out of football for two years, staked his claim as a recruiter before opting for management. He could succeed Hutchison or Beck.
Hutchison, the former Melbourne caretaker coach, was told by Tigers director of football Greg Miller on Monday he was not required.
Spargo, however, has opted to return to Albury.
Miller yesterday confirmed Hutchison's departure.
"Hutchy has been excellent in the last couple of years, he's been outstanding in his job," Miller said.
"I feel for him. And I think he would be a great asset to anyone else who would be interested in the skills he has.
"But the coach wanted a fresh approach, he wanted new people around the place."
The Tigers are working with strategic planners, their priority being the budget for the football department.
"There's going to be restrictions on how many people he (Wallace) wants for financial reasons . . . we are going to be a very tight ship," Miller said.
"So who finally finishes up on the team is a little bit up in the air as we work out what we can afford and not afford."
Asked about Beck and Brittain's future, Miller said: "Nothing else has been done."
Hutchison's departure comes in the final week of Danny Frawley's coaching tenure.
SaveFeriss
26 Aug 2004, 09:30
Love the sound of Beck leaving along with Brittain.
I can't comment on Rhode, but he's gotta be better than Brittain.. 1st coach to take the Blues to the spoon, Assistant Coach taking the tigers to the spoon.
I'd say Brittain is in line for the Umpires Coaching position.
The same history of mediocrity we criticise Spud for is written all over Rohde. I'd be wary.
Tigerland
26 Aug 2004, 10:56
All good news as far as I'm concerned. Why would Crocker's position be safe?
Perhaps Miller is endorsing him - frankly I'd like to see all the coaching staff gone.
Wallace would know what Rhode is like form his tenure at the dogs. We've got him for 5 years so we'd better just let him do what he wants.
The problem with changing all the coaches at once is that you lose a lot of knowledge. You just end up trying the same things again, and players get ANOTHER 2nd chance. You also lose a bit of the knowledge about which players are on a last chance after getting up to mischief etc.
With Hutchinson and Spargo allready gone. That only leaves Brittain and Crocker to stay on ... and Crocker is cheaper.
Tigerland
26 Aug 2004, 11:09
[QUOTE=Weaver]The problem with changing all the coaches at once is that you lose a lot of knowledge.
Knowledge? These guys wouldn't know if their ars** were on fire.
Miller would know exactly where each player stands.
I agree though that Crocker may stay on as he'd probably be cheaper than getting someone else in. Also could be good as he could say "well Danny did this and that..." and Wallace can reply "well we won't be doing that then!"
Knowledge? These guys wouldn't know if their ars** were on fire.
And you base this opinion on what? The simple truth is that other than the 40ish players at the club none of us have a clue as to what Brittain, Crocker and Spargo do.
Similarly everyone is prepared to dump a load on Beck and have little or no knowledge about how recruitment decisions were made, or a real sense of what is acheivable with draft picks.
Most people are just letting out their frustration by lookind for scapegots. Frawley was not a rubbish coach, just an average one in charge of a below-average list. If you think that simply changing the coach will fix things you are probably in for a rude suprise.
itsintheblood
26 Aug 2004, 11:49
And you base this opinion on what? The simple truth is that other than the 40ish players at the club none of us have a clue as to what Brittain, Crocker and Spargo do.
Similarly everyone is prepared to dump a load on Beck and have little or no knowledge about how recruitment decisions were made, or a real sense of what is acheivable with draft picks.
Most people are just letting out their frustration by lookind for scapegots. Frawley was not a rubbish coach, just an average one in charge of a below-average list. If you think that simply changing the coach will fix things you are probably in for a rude suprise.
Sorry weaver but you're talking shyte. Frawley was ultimately responsible for telling the recruiting dept what types of players we needed. He wanted a small crumbing forward and went out and got hudson. He wanted another ruckman and went and got ben marsh. As for simon fletcher? Well......
He is a crap coach and the recruiting dept has a lot to answer for also.
The problem with changing all the coaches at once is that you lose a lot of knowledge. You just end up trying the same things again, and players get ANOTHER 2nd chance. You also lose a bit of the knowledge about which players are on a last chance after getting up to mischief etc.
With Hutchinson and Spargo allready gone. That only leaves Brittain and Crocker to stay on ... and Crocker is cheaper.
Come on Weaver.We 've had the most impotent forward line ever since Crocker showed up.
This season we've only scored over 100 points once! And thats only because Richo had about the best game of his career and snagged 10.A forward line of Richo Schulz Brown Krakouer and Moore should be able to get the odd decent score don't u think.
I can barely look at it when I see Richo being, not double teamed, but triple and quadruple teamed week after week.
Thats down to Crocker!What was he doing there as forward coach in the 1st place anyway?He was a utility!
Brittain is our midfield coach is he not? Ottens is one of the leading hitout winners in the league yet out stoppage clearance rate is pretty poor.And don't get me strarted on Lowe.He was CHF for feck sake!
The only knowledge these guys retain is the knowledge of how to lose.I'm not just being reactionary because we are on the bottom(although that should be reason enough after them trying for 3 or 4 years IMO)These guys are hopeless.Lets face it and clean out the whole lot as far as I'm concerned.
Wallace,bring in the new broom!
And you base this opinion on what? The simple truth is that other than the 40ish players at the club none of us have a clue as to what Brittain, Crocker and Spargo do.
Similarly everyone is prepared to dump a load on Beck and have little or no knowledge about how recruitment decisions were made, or a real sense of what is acheivable with draft picks.
Most people are just letting out their frustration by lookind for scapegots. Frawley was not a rubbish coach, just an average one in charge of a below-average list. If you think that simply changing the coach will fix things you are probably in for a rude suprise.
Weaver is talking common sense
Tigerland
26 Aug 2004, 12:42
[QUOTE=Weaver]And you base this opinion on what?
14 (is it) straight loses for starters. These guys are paid professionals and are paid to do a job. Their performance can only be measured by the teams performance - absimal. If anyone in any profession doesn't perform more often than not they are quickly shown the door. The players are of course to blame also for their downfall, but the Coaches are paid to get the best out of the players and Richmond haven't even been competitve in most games in the last few years.
Weaver is talking common sense
Sorry Pirate but he's not.
I've got a fair bit of respect for Weaver,he's a good judge of the young up and coming kids.He should know better than anyone what an absolute disgrace Beck has been.
Thankfully Beck and a number of the other clowns will be shown the door very soon.
For the first time in years we have a future and thankfully it doesnt involve Danny or most of his assistants.Most of their contracts expire this season.
As far as I know Crocker's is the only one that extends to next season.That will be the only thing that may save him.
Wasn't Beck recommending a bunch of kids that Frawley was turning down anyway? I think this was in the pre Miller days.
Wasn't Beck recommending a bunch of kids that Frawley was turning down anyway? I think this was in the pre Miller days.
He was Mog.Our problems can't be entirely blamed on Beck.He sure wasn't suggesting we draft guys like Hudson,Houlahoop,Fletcher etc.We all know the names.
However appart from that his strike rate has been abysmal IMO.
Who have we actually drafted the last 5 years that has turned out to be an elite player? Coughlan ,........
1980GFVideo
26 Aug 2004, 13:24
Its a bit hard to judge Crocker when he really needs to work through a buffoon like Frawley. Frawley has the final say and that must be frustrating if Frawley is doing other than what you suggest.
I was hoping Crocker would bring some knowledge of how Pagan got the Kangaroos into such a tip top outfit in his time there. Id really like to see our forward line operate under a more direct positive game plan before i judge it.
Who would have the final say on making Richo the sole focus and having no other options? Crocker or Frawley. I agree with the comment of information from past years being useful.
Bulluss
26 Aug 2004, 13:29
The thing in Crockers favour is that he comes from a winning background. He knows what it takes to win a flag.
Coz he is the forward line coach doesnt mean that he is fully responsible for how much we score everyweek. It also has a lot to do with the players in the forward line and also the players bringing the ball into our 50.
With poor delivery and no good forwards beside Richo, what else to you expect Crocker to do.
Crocker is good in theory,he played under Pagan as you say.So is Brittain(in theory) he learnt from Parkin.In practise it's a different story though.
There's loads Crocker could do.
We all saw Schulz play against Brisbane when Richo was out.He can take a mark.He beat the best full back in the league.
Plenty of other sides have no problems fitting in two big forwards,
Hall and O'loughlan
Reiwoldt and Gehrig
Have you guys noticed how Reiwoldt and Gehrig never lead in the same direction?One leads straight at the midfielder ,the other leads,often backwards to the fat side of the 50.I 've never seen richmond try this.
About the most inventive thing we did in the forward line the entire season was to try Hilton down there.Give me a break.Surely when we're getting flogged each week we could try something different to kick it to triple teamed Richo.
As you guys can probably tell I'm in an argumentative mood but I,m just so sick of people making exuces for these under performing duds.The coaching staff have been an absolute disgrace which ever way you slice it.
14th consecutive loss is coming up this weeked
This is a club all time record!
These duds are the ones who delivered it!
Darth_Tiger
26 Aug 2004, 14:52
i also agree that crocker may be a good one to keep on. at first i thought what the hell?... but now that i think about it it may be a good idea to keep him on at least for a while.
Have you guys noticed how Reiwoldt and Gehrig never lead in the same direction?One leads straight at the midfielder ,the other leads,often backwards to the fat side of the 50.I 've never seen richmond try this.
This is all well and good but the list of coaches that have been unable to get number 12 to do anything other than do as he pleases is getting longer and longer. Even Brendan Gale mentioned it his interview with Walls.
Richardson will go to the ball no matter what, and will call for the ball no matter what ... and they ain't invented the coach who can change that.
As you guys can probably tell I'm in an argumentative mood but I,m just so sick of people making exuces for these under performing duds.The coaching staff have been an absolute disgrace which ever way you slice it.
Not saying they are immune for blame or that they should stay. Only saying that for all you know Brittain has been telling them EXACTLY what you'd expect him too but the players can't or won't implement the instructions.
I also of the opinion that coaches are generally hugely overrated. A GREAT coach like Pagan can take a team that should win 6 games and get them to 10 and still have humiliating losses along the way. A poor coach will take a team that should win 6 games and lead them to 3 or 4.
I think we should have won between 4 and 8 games this year. We are at the low end of that and Frawley has just been average. He had his turn and now it is time to try someone else. I hardly think Spud and his crew are devils incarnate who have actually cost us anything. Just average coaches of a mediocre list.
Just average coaches of a mediocre list.
This is the Point. How responsible are they for the present list??????
I think we should have won between 4 and 8 games this year.
So your saying that if we had a better coach, say Wallace we could have won 8 games.
Do you also think that Wallace could get us up from being 8 game winning side to say 12 game winning side so we can make the eight next year??
Wallace will pick and choose his own guys. That was, after money and length of contract, the issue agreed on before he took the job.
A new coach always wants his own ppl to work with.
Whether Crocker or Beck stay or should stay is up to the new coach.
Let Wallace have whatever he wants and then lets assess in year 3 if he's warranted all the faith the club and supporters are giving him. That's what Greg Miller is doing anyway.
If I had a say, I'd get rid of everyone of them. And let them keep the wooden spoon they earned for our club.
This is all well and good but the list of coaches that have been unable to get number 12 to do anything other than do as he pleases is getting longer and longer. Even Brendan Gale mentioned it his interview with Walls.
Richardson will go to the ball no matter what, and will call for the ball no matter what ... and they ain't invented the coach who can change that.
Yes I saw Benny say that but lets get serious,who's been coaching Richo the last 7 years? Geishen and Frawley.I guess we wont know till this time next year wether Wallace will have any more success,I suspect he will.Richo isn't the first eccentric and gifted full forward.Look how disciplined Barry Hall plays these days as an example.I find it impossible to accept that someone like Pagan or Mathews couldn't get Richo to work in tandem with another forward.Time will tell.
Not saying they are immune for blame or that they should stay. Only saying that for all you know Brittain has been telling them EXACTLY what you'd expect him too but the players can't or won't implement the instructions.
I also of the opinion that coaches are generally hugely overrated. A GREAT coach like Pagan can take a team that should win 6 games and get them to 10 and still have humiliating losses along the way. A poor coach will take a team that should win 6 games and lead them to 3 or 4.
I think we should have won between 4 and 8 games this year. We are at the low end of that and Frawley has just been average. He had his turn and now it is time to try someone else. I hardly think Spud and his crew are devils incarnate who have actually cost us anything. Just average coaches of a mediocre list.
Well I don't know how much evidence you need.Brittain and Frawley have had 2 coaching stints now.Both have ended with their charges getting the wooden spoon.Surely you can see a pattern developing.
If the players arn't doing what the're told thats a failing of Brittain surely.
I'm of the opinion that coaches are hugely under rated over the medium term.ie a 5 year period like Danny has had and that we have offered Wallace.But happy accept your opinion.
I agree with you our list should've won about 8 games.That was my apporximate prediction at the start of the season.
If we accept your premise that they are over rated and its the players letting them down then it's STILL their fault.Both have been at the club long enough to have ownership of the entire team.They've had ample opportunity to trade a Richo or a Chaffey or Campbell if they are obviously not EXACTLY implementing Brittains rules.
My guess is Wallace won't stand for any of this shyte in the future and if Richo doesn't lead to where he's told he can become a full back or bugger off.If Campbell wont continue the flow on play Wallace will send him packing too.
Maybe Crocker can fit in with this new style.I doubt it. For mine he's "damaged goods."I'll be happy to be proved wrong with him however.
Darth_Tiger
26 Aug 2004, 16:30
i think that if he stays obviously plough will have his reasons for keeping him. as much as we all want a fresh bunch of faces, the new coach will have the people he wants. not the people we want.
The same history of mediocrity we criticise Spud for is written all over Rohde. I'd be wary.
Im with u Mog,big time.
Id rather Carey :eek:
tiger of old
26 Aug 2004, 17:13
we are not playing as a team.its simple as that.weather it has to do with certain jealousy,s amongst the playing group i dont know but form an outsiders view it seems that way.
GM hinted to the very fact last year and thats why i believe the likes of Gasper and Ottens are on very thin ice ATM.
Players might not kick to a teamate because of this jealousy and next thing its a cancer going through the whole side.
everybody is to blame for this not any individual.
there is/was a split amongst the playing group in regards to knighter and cambo.and id say it still there while cambo is still playing.
i just hope TW can weed at this cancer.
cheers!
1980GFVideo
26 Aug 2004, 19:01
we are not playing as a team.its simple as that.weather it has to do with certain jealousy,s amongst the playing group i dont know but form an outsiders view it seems that way.
GM hinted to the very fact last year and thats why i believe the likes of Gasper and Ottens are on very thin ice ATM.
Players might not kick to a teamate because of this jealousy and next thing its a cancer going through the whole side.
everybody is to blame for this not any individual.
there is/was a split amongst the playing group in regards to knighter and cambo.and id say it still there while cambo is still playing.
i just hope TW can weed at this cancer.
cheers!
I dont doubt TOO that these type of feelings occur among players. I really cant remember the last time I saw us play as a really close gelled unit.
I have no doubt that 8 players needing to take a paycut for one player who hardly is inspirational is going to help matters. Earlier in the year someone said on this thread that Pettifer was getting up peoples noses. Every club has people who dont like each other but I hope that we dont have a case where it exceeds the norm. Id be interested if someone close to the club can enlighten us on this one.
cairo tiger
26 Aug 2004, 19:12
wally should be given every opportunity t develop his best team.
I say all the bastayrds should go, they have been delegated responsibilities and failed.....who cares if there is no known local knowledge, wallace knows more than the blokes that have been there for 4 years!
the future is wallace
we are not playing as a team.its simple as that.weather it has to do with certain jealousy,s amongst the playing group i dont know but form an outsiders view it seems that way.
GM hinted to the very fact last year and thats why i believe the likes of Gasper and Ottens are on very thin ice ATM.
Players might not kick to a teamate because of this jealousy and next thing its a cancer going through the whole side.
everybody is to blame for this not any individual.
there is/was a split amongst the playing group in regards to knighter and cambo.and id say it still there while cambo is still playing.
i just hope TW can weed at this cancer.
cheers!
This is insightful stuff. I thought the knighter/cambo factions were over when knighter left. But if still there while cambo keeps playing, even more reason for him to retire.
I'm sure TW can weed out the cancer. But interesting to see if he doesnt create a new one with Browny. Because there was one when both were at the dogs.