View Full Version : Why is it that Indian batsmen were out of form?
spindoctor
30 Oct 2004, 01:18
Is this necessarily the truth? Because it gives absolutely no credit to how brilliantly the 4 Aussie strike bowlers bowled...
Is it possible some of these stupid Indian apologists could just say that whatever form the Indian batsmen were in, they were beaten by red-hot bowlers who knew their faults exactly?
Does there always have to be an excuse for them losing? Umpires, batsmen out of form, Patel...
Sometimes you're just beaten by a better side...get over it.
Bentleigh
30 Oct 2004, 01:34
Yep - our bowlers where abosute class.
juddy03
30 Oct 2004, 02:09
Iagree.. Our Bowlers are in red hot form at the moment.. Hope it stays that way..
Yes India were beaten by a better side. A much better side. The aussie quicks dominated them. Having said that, Laxman is playing like he is really a Bangladeshi, and Dravid is in shocking form. Still, it was good to see some things going our way in India for once.
Is this necessarily the truth? Because it gives absolutely no credit to how brilliantly the 4 Aussie strike bowlers bowled...
Is it possible some of these stupid Indian apologists could just say that whatever form the Indian batsmen were in, they were beaten by red-hot bowlers who knew their faults exactly?
Does there always have to be an excuse for them losing? Umpires, batsmen out of form, Patel...
Sometimes you're just beaten by a better side...get over it.
Agree 100%.
Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Yuvraj - all batted well against Pakistan earlier this year and came into the series in great form you would have thought. Only Laxman had a below par series but still batted well vs Aust last summer (as did Ganguly).
All credit to the Aussie bowlers.
St-KriS
30 Oct 2004, 13:53
Our bowlers have been awesome. They deserve full credit.
Also, how often have Indian batsmen performed under big time pressure? Apart from Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman in 2 series against Australia, they usually go missing when the heat is on.
Australian batting lineup> Indian batting lineup
Russian
30 Oct 2004, 14:12
We bowled very well, but their best performing batsmen have been Kaif, Patel and Pathan. Nobody can seriously say they are their best batsmen so the others must be out of form. Although Gilly's comment that the batsmen won the series was a bit over the top imo.
Ricketts
30 Oct 2004, 18:13
Glenn and co. just the greatest.
Cooldude
30 Oct 2004, 19:30
You can thank the lord that Brett Lee didn't play, he would've bowled their batsmen into form.
You can thank the lord that Brett Lee didn't play, he would've bowled their batsmen into form.
Brett Lee vs Sehwag. My guess, 43 run over. (No ball hit for 6).
Adelaide Hawk
30 Oct 2004, 23:30
You can thank the lord that Brett Lee didn't play, he would've bowled their batsmen into form.
:rolleyes:
Bombers_Forever
1 Nov 2004, 05:39
Our superb attack (minus Lee!) ;)
Dog Town
1 Nov 2004, 08:58
I think having Mcgrath and Warne in as opposed to Lee and Mcgill played a masive part in it.Warne and Mcgrath were able to create pressure with there tight bowling and Dizzy cashed in.Last summer Lee and Macgill were bowling 2 loose balls and over and it released the pressure to much.
they played on a un indian like wicket in the thrid test. they will bounce back in the fourth test
they played on a un indian like wicket in the thrid test. they will bounce back in the fourth test
Un-Indian wicket must mean "un-doctored and a good test wicket". You have a very short memory BB. I think you will find that the first two tests were played on "doctored pitches".
spindoctor
1 Nov 2004, 17:31
So Australian wickets such as the WACA, which are designed to support lots of pace bowling, are doctored pitches also?
Can't have one standard for the Indians and another for us...we prepare our pitches to suit the Australian style also...why the hell wouldn't the Indians prepare pitches to suit their style?
So Australian wickets such as the WACA, which are designed to support lots of pace bowling, are doctored pitches also?
Can't have one standard for the Indians and another for us...we prepare our pitches to suit the Australian style also...why the hell wouldn't the Indians prepare pitches to suit their style?
The WACA has always been like that, we didn't change it when the windies pace attack came over.
The curators in australia choose the pitch they want. They don't have aussie captains coming up to them telling them what to do.
spindoctor
1 Nov 2004, 17:37
The WACA has always been like that, we didn't change it when the windies pace attack came over.
The curators in australia choose the pitch they want. They don't have aussie captains coming up to them telling them what to do.
No, they have the ACB telling them what to prepare. Read some of the articles on it at the time. The pitches are prepared to support the Australian attack, it's an ACB (CA, sorry) directive. Don't be so naive. Would you ever see an Indian style pitch in Australia? No.
What about the groundsman repairing the pitch in Melbourne? Or the greener Sydney wicket last year?
Sorry, but we 'doctor' our pitches as much as any Indians do...they prepare what suits them...we prepare what suits us...
Cooldude
1 Nov 2004, 17:38
So Australian wickets such as the WACA, which are designed to support lots of pace bowling, are doctored pitches also?
Can't have one standard for the Indians and another for us...we prepare our pitches to suit the Australian style also...why the hell wouldn't the Indians prepare pitches to suit their style?
We could've just as easily made greentops last year to greet the Indians and suit our fast bowlers, did we do that? No, instead, we made easy paced roads which suited them more than us, and we didn't play at the WACA either.
No, they have the ACB telling them what to prepare. Read some of the articles on it at the time. The pitches are prepared to support the Australian attack, it's an ACB (CA, sorry) directive. Don't be so naive. Would you ever see an Indian style pitch in Australia? No.
What about the groundsman repairing the pitch in Melbourne? Or the greener Sydney wicket last year?
Sorry, but we 'doctor' our pitches as much as any Indians do...they prepare what suits them...we prepare what suits us...
What a load of crap. Im sure CA would tell the curators what to prepare. If the CA cared so much about the pitches, they woulda played india @ the WACA. (just saw your post cooldude, sorry)
spindoctor
1 Nov 2004, 17:52
Of course they tell the curators what to prepare. Dont be so naive.
We could've just as easily made greentops last year to greet the Indians and suit our fast bowlers, did we do that? No, instead, we made easy paced roads which suited them more than us, and we didn't play at the WACA either.
I don't know about in Australia but over here we've stopped producing green tops for Tests (even though the thinking is that it suits us), this has undoubtably helped both our bowlers & batsmen progress but the feeling is that it was done for financial reasons becuase they were losing too much money on 3 day finishes (don't know if the same applies over there but it's probably a consideration, if not the sole reason).
As for the original question of the form of the Indian batsmen, I've always had the feeling that they're overrated as a group, you take their averages & they're a bunch of champions but I think everyone knows that if you get them on a fast bouncy pitch against reasonably good pace bowlers & you fancy your chances of winning.I wouldn't say that they're flat track bullies but they're probably the best at piling on massive scores on flat pitches & of course they play well on turning pitches but you get stuck into them with a bit of good quality pace & they perform much lower than their averages.
Freo Big Fella
1 Nov 2004, 19:34
Of course they tell the curators what to prepare. Dont be so naive.
But they do so with the Style of the game in mind, rather than favouring one team over the other. See Les Burdetts continuous preperation of Roads at Adelaide, as opposed to Pace Friendly Wickets (which would be easy to prepare in Adelaides dry climate). If CA went to Richard Winter and told him to produce a batting wicket to Favour Gilchrist and Ponting, he'd laugh in their faces before telling them to go and get stuffed.
As far as the WACA goes, it's impossible to produce any other wicket besides a Pace Friendly deck here. It's too dry.
spindoctor
1 Nov 2004, 20:41
Um...dry places are usually where you get SPIN-friendly decks...what the hell do you think India and Sri Lanka are? DRY, DUSTY tracks...
Freo Big Fella
1 Nov 2004, 22:32
Um...dry places are usually where you get SPIN-friendly decks...what the hell do you think India and Sri Lanka are? DRY, DUSTY tracks...
By Dry I mean Hot, Dry Summers that you typically get in Perth and Adelaide, not Subcontinental Conditons.
Of course they tell the curators what to prepare. Dont be so naive.
Face it. You are the one who is naive. Curators in Aust do what they want. They try to make test match wickets that will give after five days. If we have been doctoring pitches, why didn't we make pitcjes to suit us instead of the West Indies in the 80's and 90's? Why did the pitches last season suit India more than Australia?
Um...dry places are usually where you get SPIN-friendly decks...what the hell do you think India and Sri Lanka are? DRY, DUSTY tracks...
Um...in the first test in Chennai, they had had weeks of rain prior to the test match. If they hadn't doctored the pitch it would also have been a green top. The commentators were saying they had never seen a place in India so green. Then the Indian curator brought out the wire bruches.Pitches in the sub-continent are only dry and dusty because these countries want dry and dusty. Here in Adelaide and Perth, we get no rain during summer, but you do not see dust bowls. You see wickets that are designed for good test matches. Something in them for fast bowlers, spinners and batsmen.
Gopies 2002
2 Nov 2004, 18:25
Is spin doctor serious ?
I have been watching Cricket for 25 years. In that time the Perth pitch has been a super quick wicket that suits quicks, the Brisbane week a seamer, the Sydney track aids spin and the AO has been a batting friendly wicket. The only pitch that has changed much has been the MCG, mostly due to the change in surface and now the drop in pitches.
As for India, its fairly clear the captain approached the groundstaff to prepare a particular type of pitch. If you can't see that is wrong you are a fool. Good on them for not giving into the guy and producing a true wicket.
BTW, the last wicket was a terrific pitch. I didn't see one wicket which could be blamed on the pitch.
dannyboy
3 Nov 2004, 15:10
There really is no arguement.....all countries tailor their pitches to suit the home side, and fair enough too, thats just the way it goes, the advantage the home side is entitled too. It's what makes winning in India a fantastic achievement. I don't care at all that they "doctor" their pitches....and yes people that aren't acknowledging that it happens everywhere should open the other eye.
Dog Town
3 Nov 2004, 16:03
There really is no arguement.....all countries tailor their pitches to suit the home side, and fair enough too, thats just the way it goes, the advantage the home side is entitled too. It's what makes winning in India a fantastic achievement. I don't care at all that they "doctor" their pitches....and yes people that aren't acknowledging that it happens everywhere should open the other eye.We must have a pretty diverse side in terms of there strengths then.All of our 5 test pitches play completely different.
Brisbane-Usually a bit of grass early and plenty of movement for the quicks.
Sydney-Spin and Batsmen friendly
Melbourne-Mixed bag due to drop in pitch and unpredictable weather.
Perth-Quick and hard.Never changes.Occasionally it will break up a little early.
Adelaide-Batsmens paradise that favours the spinners by day 4 or 5.Pretty hard surafce generally so it still plays quicker then Sydney for example.
I would have thought if we were going to doctor our pitches we would make them suit one style.
We must have a pretty diverse side in terms of there strengths then.All of our 5 test pitches play completely different.
Brisbane-Usually a bit of grass early and plenty of movement for the quicks.
Sydney-Spin and Batsmen friendly
Melbourne-Mixed bag due to drop in pitch and unpredictable weather.
Perth-Quick and hard.Never changes.Occasionally it will break up a little early.
Adelaide-Batsmens paradise that favours the spinners by day 4 or 5.Pretty hard surafce generally so it still plays quicker then Sydney for example.
I would have thought if we were going to doctor our pitches we would make them suit one style.
Exactly. Some people on this forum just refuse to understand that pitches in Australia are not doctored. During last summers series against India, the Sydney and Adelaide pitch conditions actually favoured the visiting team.