Justin Langer - Pressure building on him

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Hey everyone, justin langer in my opinion should have been dropped instead of katich and possibly gilchrist opening and therefore keeping the left hand combination and making better use of gilchrist then letting him bat a 7. Langer really played some poor shots today and has been playing some poor shots in the india tour as well. He was lucky to surivive that caught behind appeal and gives the bowlers too many chances by poking at balls he should be leaving. Also he is poor in the field and gives australia nothing in that department. I know he is part of a great opening pair but that great run was years ago 2001-2002. I believe langer should have been dropped before the gabba test. The batting line up i think should look like this in his absence.

Hayden
Gilchrist
Ponting
Martyn
Lehhman
Clarke
Katich
Warne
Gillespie
Kaspra
Mcgrath

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Yeah mate i realise my opinion might get people fired up. But i firmly believe if langer does not get runs this summer he will be finished.

[DaveW]

Gilchrist has a pretty high workload as it is. Opening the batting is not an option.

If you were going to drop Langer - although I think its a bit premature - bring in a real opener.

Michael Hussey is the most logical choice.

[BulldogMike]

Yeah mate i realise my opinion might get people fired up. But i firmly believe if langer does not get runs this summer he will be finished.

Caught out trying to use 2 accounts, Why would you be replying to yourself otherwise.
Langer deserves his place and Hayden would be questioned before Langer.

[stmookeyj]

Surely there's a young opener to take his spot should the need arise? But whom?

[Matt123]

Hey everyone, justin langer in my opinion should have been dropped instead of katich and possibly gilchrist opening and therefore keeping the left hand combination and making better use of gilchrist then letting him bat a 7. Langer really played some poor shots today and has been playing some poor shots in the india tour as well. He was lucky to surivive that caught behind appeal and gives the bowlers too many chances by poking at balls he should be leaving. Also he is poor in the field and gives australia nothing in that department. I know he is part of a great opening pair but that great run was years ago 2001-2002. I believe langer should have been dropped before the gabba test. The batting line up i think should look like this in his absence.

Hayden
Gilchrist
Ponting
Martyn
Lehhman
Clarke
Katich
Warne
Gillespie
Kaspra
Mcgrath
Aren't you being a bit harsh for someone who averages a tick under 44 in 80 test matches. A couple of bad innings shouldn't mean you get dropped. I sure as hell hope lehmann gets some runs before people start questioning his spot in the team. In my opinion, the selectors got it exactly right for this test- lehmann had to come in and clarke had to stay. Unfortunately for Katick, there are only 6 batting spots and he's unlucky to miss out. He'll get opportunities in the future, no doubt.

[J.Gallagher #1]

Although Langer should not be dropped, say he did i would have thought the thing to do would be to leave Gilly at 7 and just bring Katich in as the opener also still keeping the Left Handed combination at the top.

[DIG]

Although Langer should not be dropped, say he did i would have thought the thing to do would be to leave Gilly at 7 and just bring Katich in as the opener also still keeping the Left Handed combination at the top.
nah they've f arked around with Katich's career enough already instead of just letting him blossum in a middle-order position. IMO they should've thought of the future and made the tough call on Boof.

Drop Langer pffft! This is what gives me the sh1ts about the cricket public and columnists, always no matter how well we're going there just HAS to be someone "under pressure". If we consistently dropped players after the slightest dip in form we'd be like England of the last 20 years. Team unity is important, as is the extra leeway proven performers at test level should be given (to a point). Just about all our current batsmen have gone thru rough trots in recent years and have come thru without needing to be dropped.

Langer had a reasonable tour of India. Saw off just about every new ball plus scored a century. Also there is currently no younger opener in Aus to put any pressure on him. Hard to say who the eventual replacements of Hayden and Langer will be. Maybe JGallagher#1's right after all and some middle order batsman like Katich will eventually have to move up into an opener's role so we don't sacrifice on quality.

[DIG]

nah they've f arked around with Katich's career enough already instead of just letting him blossum in a middle-order position. IMO they should've thought of the future and made the tough call on Boof.

Drop Langer pffft! This is what gives me the sh1ts about the cricket public and columnists, always no matter how well we're going there just HAS to be someone "under pressure". If we consistently dropped players after the slightest dip in form we'd be like England of the last 20 years. Team unity is important, as is the extra leeway proven performers at test level should be given (to a point). Just about all our current batsmen have gone thru rough trots in recent years and have come thru without needing to be dropped.

Langer had a reasonable tour of India. Saw off just about every new ball plus scored a century. Also there is currently no younger opener in Aus to put any pressure on him. Hard to say who the eventual replacements of Hayden and Langer will be. Maybe JGallagher#1's right after all and some middle order batsman like Katich will eventually have to move up into an opener's role so we don't sacrifice on quality.

yeah, good one DIG. I totally agree with you man.

Aw hangon i forgot to change accounts. :cool:

[docker_azza]

The team's pretty spot on as it is... with a possible toss-up between katich and lehmann

Yep

I agree.

Katich was unlucky to miss out this test but otherwise we've got our strongest side on the paddocke

.

[Dog Town]

This really ********s me.Martyn and Langer have been cricket fans whipping boys for years.Matty Hayden is batting horribly at the moment.He refuses to show bowlers any respect and he has lost the ability to score through the off side.If he doesn't stop walking across his stumps the way he is then he wont recover.He simply cant rely on moving across and smashing everything across the line.He needs to dig in and make a long hundred instead of trying to do it in one session.Langer on the other hand is atleast getting starts.

[Freo Big Fella]

Hey everyone, justin langer in my opinion should have been dropped instead of katich and possibly gilchrist opening and therefore keeping the left hand combination and making better use of gilchrist then letting him bat a 7. Langer really played some poor shots today and has been playing some poor shots in the india tour as well. He was lucky to surivive that caught behind appeal and gives the bowlers too many chances by poking at balls he should be leaving. Also he is poor in the field and gives australia nothing in that department. I know he is part of a great opening pair but that great run was years ago 2001-2002. I believe langer should have been dropped before the gabba test. The batting line up i think should look like this in his absence.

Hayden
Gilchrist
Ponting
Martyn
Lehhman
Clarke
Katich
Warne
Gillespie
Kaspra
Mcgrath


Because Darren Lehmann is in such outstanding form at the moment :rolleyes: . Idiot.

[Russian]

No point playing Katich at 7. If he came in for Langer he'd be opening. Langer's in better form than Hayden and Lehmann put together atm so dropping him is not an option at least until Boxing Day. But the pressure's on all the batsmen to keep performing since Katich can slot in anywhere.

[Jaymin]

Surely there's a young opener to take his spot should the need arise? But whom?

Phil Jaques (NSW)

[Matt123]

Phil Jaques (NSW)
Get real.

[YOTC]

Get real.
Who else?

[Freo Big Fella]

Who else?


Richard Chee Quee?? :p

[Matt123]

Who else?
Justin Langer.

[YOTC]

Justin Langer.
yeah, but whos the next best?

[m.diddy]

This is what i believe the selectors should do

1. Tell boof that Adelaide will be his last test.
2. Bring back Katich for the remaining tests.
3. Drop martyn fom the ODI side if he doesn't make any runs this summer
4. Drop Langer or let him retire but not until after a few more tours!!

Who will retire over the next few years?
1. Boof this year or early next
2. Langer will late next year (he is 34 same age as boof) Only still in because he is an opener
3. Warne probably after next years aus tests. (he is 35)
4. McGrath round the same time as warne (he is 34)
5. Gilchrist, Hayden, Martyn (all 33)

All these will be over the next 1-2 years

[DOG GOD]

yeah, but whos the next best?

Yeah, says alot for a team with GREAT DEPTH!!!!

[YOTC]

Yeah, says alot for a team with GREAT DEPTH!!!!
Phil Jaques averages 47. Chris Rogers averages 44. My 2 options.

[Matt123]

This is what i believe the selectors should do

1. Tell boof that Adelaide will be his last test.
2. Bring back Katich for the remaining tests.
3. Drop martyn fom the ODI side if he doesn't make any runs this summer
4. Drop Langer or let him retire but not until after a few more tours!!

Who will retire over the next few years?
1. Boof this year or early next
2. Langer will late next year (he is 34 same age as boof) Only still in because he is an opener
3. Warne probably after next years aus tests. (he is 35)
4. McGrath round the same time as warne (he is 34)
5. Gilchrist, Hayden, Martyn (all 33)

All these will be over the next 1-2 years
Drop marto. What drugs are you on??? Marto is our best batsman at the moment.

[The Bears]

Drop marto. What drugs are you on??? Marto is our best batsman at the moment.
I agree this guy is mental
I would try out Jacqus or maybe dawson from Tasmania

[m.diddy]

Drop marto. What drugs are you on??? Marto is our best batsman at the moment.

I said for the ODI not the test and i didn't say this summer because he sucks in the one day form, he is too slow. I would rather katich, lehmann, and clarke instead of Martyn

[Black Thunder]

Langer is a long way from getting dropped.

He's batting is very good.

And there's not much pressure from behind.

Elliot had a great last season, but not too much this season. M Hussey has never done anything in the Australian domestic competition. Rogers is not quite ready, but i think he'll play one day.

[dr nick]

Yeah, says alot for a team with GREAT DEPTH!!!!
un understrengthed domestic side thrashed the kiwis the other day.

Our 4th string side could beat that mob... our tailenders alone can score more than the whole team.

[Freo Big Fella]

M Hussey has never done anything in the Australian domestic competition.


:confused: . For a bloke who's got 13000 first class runs at 51 that's a bit harsh. I know he has played a lot of county cricket but it still doesn't reduce his achievements in Australia.

[bunsen burner]

This thread seems to have attracted all the people who don't have a clue about cricket.


Hayden
Gilchrist
Ponting
Martyn
..Gilchrist is not a test match opener. Why would the selectors tamper with a guy who avergaes over 50 at #7 and place an unnecesary risk putting him in to open when he has to keep for long periods too.

Langer deserves his place and Hayden would be questioned before Langer.Errr, no. A poor summer against NZ and Pakistan could end JL's career if there is another opener in form. Hayden's got plenty of frequent flier points in the bank.

Although Langer should not be dropped, say he did i would have thought the thing to do would be to leave Gilly at 7 and just bring Katich in as the opener Won't happen. Lehmann is getting on and Katich has proven himself as a good mid order player. I'm tipping Lehmann will be replaced by Katich if he doesn't score runs in the next two tests.

and just bring Katich in as the opener also still keeping the Left Handed combination at the top. An astounding statement. A left/right combo is more preferable than a left/left or right/right combo, all other things being the same.

Phil Jaques (NSW) Why don't we drop Martyn and replace him with Richard Chee Quee while we're at it?

* just noticed someone beat me to it!

[DaveW]

Phil Jaques averages 47.
Translation: He averages 30 for New South Wales and about 60 for Northamptonshire.
Chris Rogers averages 44. My 2 options.
Rogers is a good solid, gritty state level player. Doesn't strike me as having the class of a Test player though.

[pinkus maximus]

I believe if Scott Mueleman gets his act together he is a future opener,but with Hussey and Rogers he may have to consider moving states

[silky-smooth]

Translation: He averages 30 for New South Wales and about 60 for Northamptonshire.
Far out! That is something that went un-noticed (to me).

Double the average in England, and with all their crap bowlers - what a suprise! :rolleyes: :D

[dr nick]

i must admit... yotc had me fooled. I had no idea jacques was so good... now i know why

[Stafford678]

langer and lehmann mite be gone by the end of the summer, katic for lehmann and the only real choice australia has apart from langer is micheal hussey who is the unluckiest bloke in cricket should have been in the test and one day side a long time ago, even hayden has been batting ******** but people rate him on past innings wow he scored a 380 againts a friggin ******** weak zimbabwe side, damien martyn, micheal clarke and adam gilchrist have saved there arses the last few tests, hayden and langer have both played some very ordinary shots in india when it was not needed, and when will hayden learn he was nearly caught on the boundry sweeping in india everytime wasnt he

[Star]

Most Runs This Decade
1. ML Hayden ~ 5050 @ 60.11
2. BC Lara ~ 4521 @ 54.46
3. R Dravid ~ 4324 @ 61.77
4. JH Kallis ~ 4118 @ 62.39
5. RT Ponting ~ 4068 @ 59.82
6. JL Langer ~ 4048 @ 48.19
7. ME Trescothick ~ 3982 @ 42.81
8. DPMD Jayawardene ~ 3805 @ 49.41
9. HH Gibbs ~ 3728 @ 54.82
10. SR Tendulkar ~ 3699 @ 56.04

What about the most Australian runs in the last 24 hours?

Pidgeon would be top of the list. ;)

[pav_is_god]

Langer has been batting better than Hayden lately, but I don't hear anyone calling for Hayden's head!!! :rolleyes:

[the_mighty_pies_3733]

OK get real. Langer is batting so much better that Hayden its just not funny. I cant remember Hayden scoring anything in India. And Martyn! He and Clarke are easily the most inform batsmen we have at the moment. As for a new opener (who would replace HAYDEN), it should be Mike Hussey. Experienced, classy and has scored tons of runs.

[BulldogMike]

Errr, no. A poor summer against NZ and Pakistan could end JL's career if there is another opener in form. Hayden's got plenty of frequent flier points in the bank.


Langer did far more than Hayden in India and in the first Test against the Kiwis.

[Popey]

in my opinion, janger should be dropped if he doesent perform in the next few tours. who should replace him? Michael clarke. He will give our top order that spark it has lost in recent times. He is really agressive, and with hayden having a mini patch of poor form, having a dominating batsmen along side him could give him alot more confidence

[Popey]

in my opinion, janger should be dropped if he doesent perform in the next few tours. who should replace him? Michael clarke. He will give our top order that spark it has lost in recent times. He is really agressive, and with hayden having a mini patch of poor form, having a dominating batsmen along side him could give him alot more confidence
forgot to say who should cone in: david hussey or brad hodge, in a few years mark cosgrove but hs not ready yet

[sinepari]

in my opinion, janger should be dropped if he doesent perform in the next few tours. who should replace him? Michael clarke. He will give our top order that spark it has lost in recent times. He is really agressive, and with hayden having a mini patch of poor form, having a dominating batsmen along side him could give him alot more confidence

WTF. Do u even remotely understand the game of cricket. Or are u just a football fan. Last time i checked, clarke most certainly wasnt an opener n y would u want to compromise his great form by placing unneccessary pressure on the bloke and making him open. Y do we need 'that spark'. Total crap considering hayden and ponting would still be there if the selectors decided to drop langer, which they will not. Clearly, Hussey, rogers or Love are the only clear options

[Popey]

WTF. Do u even remotely understand the game of cricket. Or are u just a football fan. Last time i checked, clarke most certainly wasnt an opener n y would u want to compromise his great form by placing unneccessary pressure on the bloke and making him open. Y do we need 'that spark'. Total crap considering hayden and ponting would still be there if the selectors decided to drop langer, which they will not. Clearly, Hussey, rogers or Love are the only clear options
wot did they do when they dropped slats? was langer an opener?

[sinepari]

wot did they do when they dropped slats? was langer an opener?

crap reply. Langer had opened heaps for w.a and was clearly in the mould of an opener. Michael clarke is NOT an opener and will NEVER be one.

[sinepari]

uve gotta laugh at all the 'open with gilchrist or clarke ' comments made by ppl that obviously have no basic grasp of the game of cricket

[Popey]

uve gotta laugh at all the 'open with gilchrist or clarke ' comments made by ppl that obviously have no basic grasp of the game of cricket
huh........oh its a joke! i get jokes!

[BB gun]

strange people

[Goldenblue]

I would leave the side the way it is.

No need to drop anyone.

[bunsen burner]

As for a new opener (who would replace HAYDEN), You're an idiot.

[bunsen burner]

Langer did far more than Hayden in India and in the first Test against the Kiwis.So what?

Hayden has had a few average tests after years of consistently being one of the worlds top 2 or 3 top batsmen. Langer has been close to being dropped many times before. It's clearly obvious to anyone who isn't completely thick that Langer would get the chop before Hayden.

[bunsen burner]

It's baffling how so many people have no problems talking about cricket when they clearly don't have a clue.

[sinepari]

It's baffling how so many people have no problems talking about cricket when they clearly don't have a clue.

i concur

[eddiesmith]

The only logical choice would be M.Elliott

[BulldogMike]

The only logical choice would be M.Elliott

M.Hussey could be given a shot with more Australia A exposure.

[Freo Big Fella]

The only logical choice would be M.Elliott

You're an idiot.

[bunsen burner]

Why is anyone even talking about replacing either of our openers? There's no shortage of idiots here who fail to take into consideration that unlike any of the other batting spots, partnership dynamics has a major role. Langer and Hayden average 60 odd, have 4000 runs to their name, and more often than not see off the new ball.

Add to that the fact that there is not one up and coming opener in the calibre of say Clarke. Talk of replacing either opener is just idiotic.

[Bentleigh]

LIONS then DAYLIGHT - moron.

Hayden and Langer are the greatest opening pair in the history of the game.

[Cooldude]

LIONS then DAYLIGHT - moron.

Hayden and Langer are the greatest opening pair in the history of the game.

For the second statement, you deserve this

Bentleigh - moron

[Bentleigh]

For the second statement, you deserve this

Bentleigh - moron

Stats wise they are the best ever.

Cooldude - tosser

[Cooldude]

Stats wise they are the best ever.

Cooldude - tosser

If anyone's dumb enough to use stats as a legitimate comparsion, then by your logic, Steve Waugh's a better bat than Viv Richards, or Shaun Pollock better bowler than Sir Richard.

Also, if you use stats as a comparsion, then George Lohmann is the greatest bowler of all time by a long way.

Bentleigh = pea-brain retard.

[Bentleigh]

If anyone's dumb enough to use stats as a legitimate comparsion, then by your logic, Steve Waugh's a better bat than Viv Richards, or Shaun Pollock better bowler than Sir Richard.

Also, if you use stats as a comparsion, then George Lohmann is the greatest bowler of all time by a long way.

Bentleigh = pea-brain retard.

Stats over dozens of tests dont lie.

Steve Waugh was one of the games greatest ever batsman, as good as anyone.

dont use stupid 1 of example like Clarke or Lohmann. Over an extended period of time stats tell only truth.

Langer and Hayden as an opening partnership are as good if not better than any openign pair ever.

tosser.

[Cooldude]

Stats over dozens of tests dont lie.

Steve Waugh was one of the games greatest ever batsman, as good as anyone.

dont use stupid 1 of example like Clarke or Lohmann. Over an extended period of time stats tell only truth.

Langer and Hayden as an opening partnership are as good if not better than any openign pair ever.

tosser.

I pity you if you think stats can prove everything and everything.

Over an extended period of time? Tests matches are played WAY more frequently nowadays, unlike the old days. it's impossible to compare stats. If you're saying that you can compare stats over a dozen of tests, then Murali IS the greatest bowler of all time, and Dennis Lillee an inferior bowler to Kapil Dev

There are stuff that doesn't show on stats, and unfortunately you're dumb enough to see stats as a religion. Langer and Hayden would get killed facing the Windies bowler in the 70s-80s, rather than facing rubbish like Martin and Franklin who wouldn't get a bowl in a Chinese Restaurant.

To say Langer and Hayden are the best just coz they're scoring the most runs in an era where there are precious little to no decent new ball bowlers, proves your ignorance.

I know you wouldn't accept the fact that those two've been facing pie chuckers.

I feel sorry for ya, keep thinking that way.

[Bentleigh]

Over an extended period of time? Tests matches are played WAY more frequently nowadays, unlike the old days. it's impossible to compare stats. If you're saying that you can compare stats over a dozen of tests, then Murali IS the greatest bowler of all time, and Dennis Lillee an inferior bowler to Kapil Dev

The old days? wtf... the WI were in the best in the 80's. Hardly the old days. Regardless about the amount of runs the score, Langer and Hayden have a better average than anyone else (if not they did untill recently) of the opening partnership than anyone else ever. OVer 60 runs i beleive.




There are stuff that doesn't show on stats, and unfortunately you're dumb enough to see stats as a religion.

Dont tell me what i see fool. I see stats are a very good indicator, not religion.


Langer and Hayden would get killed facing the Windies bowler in the 70s-80s, rather than facing rubbish like Martin and Franklin who wouldn't get a bowl in a Chinese Restaurant.

To say Langer and Hayden are the best just coz they're scoring the most runs in an era where there are precious little to no decent new ball bowlers, proves your ignorance.

I know you wouldn't accept the fact that those two've been facing pie chuckers.


How do you know how Langer and Hayden would go against the WI - you dont. Langer and Hayden are at least on par with the best becasue they have a great partnership together very commenly putting on huge amounts of runs and getting more runs each time they go out (its called ana average) than any other. Not the amoutn of runs.




I pity you if you think stats can prove everything and everything.

I feel sorry for ya, keep thinking that way.


And i pity for you for being a tosser.

[Cooldude]

It's great that you've come to a stage where you have to use selective and separate quoting to put across your point, but really, there was no point, you were just continually repeating yourself, while ignoring what I said.

You kept bringing out stats, I kept telling you, facing pie chuckers like Caddick and Hoggard, Martin and Franklin, Khan and Nehra, Pollock and Ntini, or Dillion and Edwards, are different to Walsh and Ambrose, Wasim and Waqar, Allan Donald, John Snow, Malcholm Marshall, Michael Holding, Joel Garner, Colin Croft, Andy Roberts, and the likes.

The first list of bowlers are all the crap Langer and Hayden have made runs against since the 5th Ashes Test of 2001.

To say that you can't compare Hayden and Langer facing the Windies of 80s, while comparing Hayden and Langer with other opening pairs of different eras using stats, is total contradictory and oxy-moronic, just stupidity.

You also ignored the point that going by your way of comparing stats, then Murali would be the greatest bowler of all time. Now I know you said you hate the bloke, so if you're gonna persist with this little theory of yours, then you're also admitting that Murali is the greatest bowler of all time.

I'm not gonna repeat myself, either you get it or you don't, but if Langer and Hayden did face the Windies of the 80s, Michael Holding or Marshall would've never given one half volley for Langer to drive, let alone the 20 odd Franklin served up to him. Hayden would never bloody play any pull shots through mid wicket or charge down the pitch, coz if he does he'll get bloody hit in the head.

[Bentleigh]

sigh.

Your an idiot.

[Cooldude]

Thank you, you just conceded that I am correct and you are wrong, which means you are the idiot, not me :)

[Bentleigh]

Thank you, you just conceded that I am correct and you are wrong, which means you are the idiot, not me :)

Mate, i had to go out and i couldnt be bothered replying, for te tenth time.

Thats mean i "conceded" you are "correct"...

I think not.

[Cooldude]

Excuses excuses...

[bunsen burner]

Bentleigh = idiot.

You don't really deserve a reason why but if you really can't work it out, just ask and I'll tell you.

[ThePope]

Stats over dozens of tests dont lie.
Langer and Hayden as an opening partnership are as good if not better than any openign pair ever.

Ignoring the insults, lets just let the stats (http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/STATS/TESTS/PARTNERSHIPS/OPENING_PAIRS.html) (with the current test scores added) speak for themselves.
Mat I NO Runs Ave 100 50
JB Hobbs & H Sutcliffe (Eng) 25 38 1 3249 87.81 15 10
HH Gibbs & GC Smith (RSA) 22 37 3 2595 76.32 7 7
AF Rae & JB Stollmeyer (WI) 13 21 2 1349 71.00 5 3
JHW Fingleton & WA Brown (Aus) 10 16 0 1020 63.75 3 4
W Rhodes & JB Hobbs (Eng) 22 36 1 2146 61.31 8 5
WM Lawry & RB Simpson (Aus) 34 62 3 3596 60.94 9 18
Sadiq Mohammad & Majid Khan (Pak) 14 26 3 1391 60.47 4 9
JL Langer & ML Hayden (Aus) 41 70 2 4106 60.38 13 15
L Hutton & C Washbrook (Eng) 28 51 3 2880 60.00 8 13
MA Atherton & GA Gooch (Eng) 24 44 0 2501 56.84 7 12
TL Goddard & EJ Barlow (RSA) 18 34 2 1806 56.43 6 11
JG Wright & TJ Franklin (NZ) 16 28 0 1543 55.10 5 5
RC Fredericks & CG Greenidge (WI) 16 31 2 1593 54.93 5 5
SM Gavaskar & CPS Chauhan (Ind) 36 59 3 3010 53.75 10 10
G Boycott & JH Edrich (Eng) 21 35 3 1672 52.25 6 8
MJ Slater & MA Taylor (Aus) 44 78 2 3887 51.14 10 16
ME Trescothick & MP Vaughan (Eng) 28 52 3 2386 48.69 5 15
CG Greenidge & DL Haynes (WI) 89 148 11 6482 47.31 16 26
...
MS Atapattu & ST Jayasuriya (SL) 62 106 6 4136 41.36 9 21

So I make them 8th best on Average, 3rd best on aggregate and 3rd best on >100s and >50s. Another 31 runs tomorrow will see them move above Atapattu and Jayasuriya on aggregate.

So, yes, they are bloody good. Better than Hobbs and Sutcliffe? Probably not. But what where their bowlers like?

[Bentleigh]

As ive said countless times "they are as good as anyone", in the top teir, easily.

Where did u get those figures from? Im not doubting the are incorrect but foxtel claimed Langer and Hayden were 1, just overtaking Greenidge & Haynes

[DaveW]

Where did u get those figures from? Im not doubting the are incorrect but foxtel claimed Langer and Hayden were 1, just overtaking Greenidge & Haynes
I think you'll find that's for double century opening partnerships.

[bunsen burner]

As ive said countless times "they are as good as anyone", in the top teir, easily.Actually, this is what you said:


Stats wise they are the best ever.


Where did u get those figures from? Im not doubting the are incorrect but foxtel claimed Langer and Hayden were 1, just overtaking Greenidge & Haynes
Time to concede.

ps www.baggygreen.com.au (http://www.baggygreen.com.au)

[Bentleigh]

Time to concede.


Not going to happen.

Langer and Hayden as good as anyone.

[bunsen burner]

Not going to happen.

Langer and Hayden as good as anyone.But you have conceded. First you said they were the best ever, now you say they're as good as anyone. Looks like backflip and hence concession to me.

You really should have more of a clue before you come on running your mouth.

[bunsen burner]

Steve Waugh was one of the games greatest ever batsman, as good as anyone.

Obviously never heard of Bradman. You are an idiot, aren't you?

[Cooldude]

This is funny stuff, absolute gold :D

[corporal]

Obviously never heard of Bradman. You are an idiot, aren't you?

How is Bradman relevant to anything?

Bentleigh said that Steve Waugh was one of the best ever batsmen and you call him an idiot because Bradman was the best.

He didn't say Waugh was the best ever batsman so whats your point? Why is Bentleigh an idiot?


I think some people need to get there hand off it and let there ego's deflate a bit.

[dannyboy]

It's great that you've come to a stage where you have to use selective and separate quoting to put across your point, but really, there was no point, you were just continually repeating yourself, while ignoring what I said.

You kept bringing out stats, I kept telling you, facing pie chuckers like Caddick and Hoggard, Martin and Franklin, Khan and Nehra, Pollock and Ntini, or Dillion and Edwards, are different to Walsh and Ambrose, Wasim and Waqar, Allan Donald, John Snow, Malcholm Marshall, Michael Holding, Joel Garner, Colin Croft, Andy Roberts, and the likes.

The first list of bowlers are all the crap Langer and Hayden have made runs against since the 5th Ashes Test of 2001.

To say that you can't compare Hayden and Langer facing the Windies of 80s, while comparing Hayden and Langer with other opening pairs of different eras using stats, is total contradictory and oxy-moronic, just stupidity.

You also ignored the point that going by your way of comparing stats, then Murali would be the greatest bowler of all time. Now I know you said you hate the bloke, so if you're gonna persist with this little theory of yours, then you're also admitting that Murali is the greatest bowler of all time.

I'm not gonna repeat myself, either you get it or you don't, but if Langer and Hayden did face the Windies of the 80s, Michael Holding or Marshall would've never given one half volley for Langer to drive, let alone the 20 odd Franklin served up to him. Hayden would never bloody play any pull shots through mid wicket or charge down the pitch, coz if he does he'll get bloody hit in the head.

In my opinion, discrediting current players performances due to supposed lack of good bowling is absolutely rediculous....Langer and Hayden will never get the chance to defend the claims that they would not have been able to stand up to past greats, they simply have to play aginst the current players, there efforts should not be scoffed at because of this.

It also needs to be pointed out that Hayden and in particular Langer HAVE scored big runs against quality bowling of the likes of Wasim Akram, Waquar Younis, Courntney Walsh, Curtly Ambrose, Allan Donald (at his peak), and although most of their opening partnership successes have come after those players, their ability to score runs against them is simply unquestionable.

[Cooldude]

In my opinion, discrediting current players performances due to supposed lack of good bowling is absolutely rediculous....Langer and Hayden will never get the chance to defend the claims that they would not have been able to stand up to past greats, they simply have to play aginst the current players, there efforts should not be scoffed at because of this.

It also needs to be pointed out that Hayden and in particular Langer HAVE scored big runs against quality bowling of the likes of Wasim Akram, Waquar Younis, Courntney Walsh, Curtly Ambrose, Allan Donald (at his peak), and although most of their opening partnership successes have come after those players, their ability to score runs against them is simply unquestionable.

Of course you can discredit players' performance due to supposed lack of quality from either bowling or batting from the opposition. So you're saying 10 wickets against Bangladesh is as good as a 10 wicket haul against England? Or double century against Zimbabwe's like a double century against Sri Lanka?

Hayden struggled against the Windies quicks before the 2003 series. Langer could always make some good tons against quality attacks, but mainly as a no.3, not an opener.

Hayden's a tremandous batsman, but Allan Donald broke his hand before, Windies bowlers tormented him as well. Don't think he's really ever faced Wasim and Waqar near their prime.

Today's new ball bowlers are pretty ordinary, even you'd acknowledge it, the quality's WAY down from the previous decades. Certainly you wouldn't see Langer and Hayden doing half the tricks they do against the likes of Wasim and Waqar, or Walsh and Ambrose, it's a certainty, coz you won't see Hayden walking down the pitch and smash Ambrose over his head for six

[Matt123]

Yep, the pressure is really building now on Justin Langer (You idiot who started this thread).

[PowerKop]

Yep, the pressure is really building now on Justin Langer (You idiot who started this thread).
good call.

[corporal]

coz you won't see Hayden walking down the pitch and smash Ambrose over his head for six

How do you know this? Is this a conclusion you have come to by playing cricket on your computer?

Or is your cricket knowledge that brilliant you can say with certainty that Hayden wouldn't have the ability to walk down the pitch and hit ambrose for 6?

[dr nick]

How do you know this? Is this a conclusion you have come to by playing cricket on your computer?

Or is your cricket knowledge that brilliant you can say with certainty that Hayden wouldn't have the ability to walk down the pitch and hit ambrose for 6?
Steve Waugh did so as a 23 year old, i see no reason why Hayden couldnt do the same.

[scmods]

Steve Waugh did so as a 23 year old, i see no reason why Hayden couldnt do the same.
You're just trying to confuse the issue and blur the argument, by bringing in facts and logic.

[Bentleigh]

Obviously never heard of Bradman. You are an idiot, aren't you?

omg... your a tosser.

Steve Waugh is one of the finest players in the histroy of the game. He has many attributes which are as good as anyone.

Bradman is the best there will ever be, no ********.

[Cooldude]

Steve Waugh did so as a 23 year old, i see no reason why Hayden couldnt do the same.

The same Steve Waugh that's been troubled by Ambrose all the time?

Let's count how many times Ambrose got him out then, shall we?

Anyway, to bring up Steve Waugh's irrelevant, he's a no.5, FFS, we're talking about openers

[dr nick]

The same Steve Waugh that's been troubled by Ambrose all the time?

Let's count how many times Ambrose got him out then, shall we?

Anyway, to bring up Steve Waugh's irrelevant, he's a no.5, FFS, we're talking about openers
why dont you find me steve waughs average against those fearsome bouncers then :rolleyes:

[Bentleigh]

wtf is wrong with you? Why bag one of our greatest players?

S Waugh against the WI was some of the most inspirational stuff ive ever seen.

[Cooldude]

why dont you find me steve waughs average against those fearsome bouncers then :rolleyes:

You haven't answer my question yet, how many times have Ambrose dismissed him?

Steve Waugh against the Windies is the best thing in the 90s, but I'm not talking about Steve Waugh vs Windies, I'm talking about openers vs Ambrose, Walsh, Holding, etc and co. Give me stats on how Taylor and Slater fared against them, that would be more relevant to the topic

[dr nick]

Give me stats on how Taylor and Slater fared against them, that would be more relevant to the topic
Arent you the one jumping out of your pants to do the comparison? how about you find them

[Cooldude]

Arent you the one jumping out of your pants to do the comparison? how about you find them

Since you're the one who brought up Steve Waugh first, which was irrelevant to the topic, I'd think you should be the one finding them. Also, what about quoting the whole post for once, instead of ignoring the rest of the post and just selectively quote?

Wonder who was the bloke who said Steve Waugh smashed Ambrose over his head, when we're talking about Hayden and Langer here?

[dr nick]

So tell me how you intend to make a statement with such certainty that Hayden couldnt hit Ambrose back over his head for six if it has clearly been done so before by lesser batsmen.

[corporal]

The same Steve Waugh that's been troubled by Ambrose all the time?

Let's count how many times Ambrose got him out then, shall we?

Anyway, to bring up Steve Waugh's irrelevant, he's a no.5, FFS, we're talking about openers

Irrelevant?!?! what on earth are your ranting about now

I like it that things become irrelevant when they contradict your expert "opinion".

Your opinion was that current records don't count because the opposition is not as good. Thats fair enough but to say that current players would not succeed against Ambrose & co is pure speculation nothing more nothing less.

Often you will find that quality batsmen step up to another level when playing against quality opposition.

Anyway as a matter of interest (as you obviously speak the cricketing gospel) what opening partnerships do you rate above Hayden & Langer?

BTW Why bring up Taylor & Slater? I thought the discussion was about Hayden & Langer?

[Bentleigh]

Ill say it again people.

Langer + Hayden = as good as any opening pair.

[dr nick]

Ill say it again people.

Langer + Hayden = as good as any opening pair.
of course, you're forgetting about the unplayable attacks G&H were up against in the 80's too.

[Bentleigh]

of course, you're forgetting about the unplayable attacks G&H were up against in the 80's too.

Thats my point.

I understand G+H were very good players and the our boys today dont play vs the best bowlers but were the bowlers oft he 80's really that good, that much better than Pollock, Klumble, Murli etc.

Doubt it.

[Cooldude]

Irrelevant?!?! what on earth are your ranting about now

I like it that things become irrelevant when they contradict your expert "opinion".

Your opinion was that current records don't count because the opposition is not as good. Thats fair enough but to say that current players would not succeed against Ambrose & co is pure speculation nothing more nothing less.

Often you will find that quality batsmen step up to another level when playing against quality opposition.

Anyway as a matter of interest (as you obviously speak the cricketing gospel) what opening partnerships do you rate above Hayden & Langer?

BTW Why bring up Taylor & Slater? I thought the discussion was about Hayden & Langer?

Where did I say the current records "don't count"? I say that stats don't tell the full story, coz you'll have batsman and bowlers having better records in the modern era, which doesn't necessarily mean they're better than the greats of the past. That was my point

I never said records "don't count", don't put words in my mouth here.

Only coz some other bloke said Langer and Hayden are the best opening partnership ever coz stats wise they're the best (Which later was proven to be incorrect anyway).

I didn't bring up Taylor and Slater originally, coz some other bloke brought up Waugh and said how well he did against the Windies in the 90s, so I said, talking about openers here, so if you wanna bring up someone, then bring up Taylor and Slater. Not as if I wanna talk about those two here.

Greenidge and Haynes for a start, Simpson and Lawry, as much as Bill says that Lang and Haydos are better than they were, can't be rated below the two. Hobbs and Sutcliffe, obviously.

[Cooldude]

So tell me how you intend to make a statement with such certainty that Hayden couldnt hit Ambrose back over his head for six if it has clearly been done so before by lesser batsmen.

Funny how you're just nitpicking on one single bit of my very long post, selective quoting again?

My point was, Hayden wouldn't walk down the pitch and try to bash it over the top for six with the new ball, or stand up and and try to pull them over midwicket for six, against the likes of Ambrose, or Holding, or Garner, or Croft.

Get it? Hayden can do it, but not with the arrogance that he does it with against the modern new ball bowlers.

[corporal]

Where did I say the current records "don't count"? I say that stats don't tell the full story, coz you'll have batsman and bowlers having better records in the modern era, which doesn't necessarily mean they're better than the greats of the past. That was my point

I never said records "don't count", don't put words in my mouth here.

Only coz some other bloke said Langer and Hayden are the best opening partnership ever coz stats wise they're the best (Which later was proven to be incorrect anyway).

I didn't bring up Taylor and Slater originally, coz some other bloke brought up Waugh and said how well he did against the Windies in the 90s, so I said, talking about openers here, so if you wanna bring up someone, then bring up Taylor and Slater. Not as if I wanna talk about those two here.

Greenidge and Haynes for a start, Simpson and Lawry, as much as Bill says that Lang and Haydos are better than they were, can't be rated below the two. Hobbs and Sutcliffe, obviously.

I agree that the quality of opposition has differed throughout the age's hence records are not everything. I disagree though with the notion that Hayden & Langer's standing in the game should be diminished because they didn't get to play against some of the Premier pace attacks throughout history. One also has to remember that in the currently some of histories best spin bowlers are playing wheres in the 80's pace bowling was stronger.

[dr nick]

Ambrose, Marshall and co never had to bowl to quality opening pairs.. get it??

Unless you rate Boon, Wood, Dyson, Marsh, Gooch, Tavare, Broad, Robinson etc amongst the greatest of all time.

So there really is no comparison, because they looked so good with the quality of opposition they were up against. By your theory none of those windies bowlers are worth a pinch of ******** because of the standard of opposition, thats how shallow your analysis of it is