View Full Version : Chappell's all-time Aussie team
Ice goddess
21 Dec 2004, 11:05
What do people think of his team? Three other former greats will post theirs in the coming days. Here is the team :
Hayden
Ponsford :confused:
Bradman
Border
Harvey
Miller
Gilchrist
Lindwall
Warne
Lillee
O'Reilly
Morris (12th)
Black Thunder
21 Dec 2004, 11:17
I'd have picked Bill Ponsford for sure, although Arthur Morris would be putting serious pressure on for that position. Lawry and Simpson just a step behind.
Can't really fault the team too much but would have had Greg Chappell at 4 and Border at 5.
Bowling attack is as I would've picked it, but must be said that Alan Davidson and Glenn McGrath would be putting in serious claims to being in the team, while as a spinner Clarrie Grimmett would've been close.
I reckon he's pretty much spot on.
Ice goddess
21 Dec 2004, 11:21
he mentioned that McGrath was close but he feels that Lillee does everything Glen does but at a faster pace. He also believes that modern day players don't take it up to Glen and Warne enough.
gadj1976
21 Dec 2004, 12:02
What do people think of his team? Three other former greats will post theirs in the coming days. Here is the team :
Hayden
No.
Ricketts
21 Dec 2004, 12:09
yeah surely there is someone better than hayden to have played for austrailia.
and where is steve waugh?
What the............no DrWho? :confused: :mad: :D
Magpiespower
21 Dec 2004, 12:56
Pretty much on the money, I reckon. Although I would have made a few changes...
1. Arthur Morris
2. Bill Ponsford
3. Don Bradman
4. Victor Trumper
5. Greg Chappell
6. Neil Harvey
7. Keith Miller
8. Rod Marsh
9. Ray Lindwall
10. Shane Warne
11. Dennis Lillee
12th Man: Bill O'Reilly
Love to find a spot for Fred Spofforth but...
Which Chappell? I assume Greg since he's the obvious omission.
I'd have...
Trumper
Morris
Bradman
G Chappell
Border
Miller
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
O'Reilly
McGrath
Lindwall the unlucky one
dr nick
21 Dec 2004, 19:53
Though i also think Ian would be too stubborn to let Greg get a start ;)
yeah surely there is someone better than hayden to have played for austrailia.
and where is steve waugh?
gees i dunno. He's averaging what 55? That's pretty outstanding for an opener.
i'd probably have had Waugh just ahead of AB. Tough call tho.
Wicked Lester
22 Dec 2004, 06:46
I thought Chappell's team was pretty close to the mark, except - as others have noted - I would include him in the team.
Hayden/Morris
Ponsford
Bradman
Greg Chappell
Harvey/Border/Waugh - I'd go with Border, then Harvey, then Waugh
Miller
Gilchrist
Lindwall
Warne
O'Reilly
Lillee
With McGrath and Grimmett desparately unlucky.
i'd probably have had Waugh just ahead of AB.
Steve Waugh = Selfish
Alan Border = Selfless
Waugh would press for the 3rd XI while AB would be 3rd picked behind Bradman & Lillee.
Wicked Lester
22 Dec 2004, 08:04
Waugh v border is a hard one.
Personally I'd have Border ahead of Waugh for several reasons.
1) While never a number three batsman, Border batted for many years at number four, marginally higher up the order, with Steve slightly more sheltered at five for most of his career.
2) With the exception of couple of hurdles in 1982, Border performed from day one of his test career. Had he not, his career most likely would have ended much much earlier.
Waugh on the other hand averaged 31 after 25 tests, and 35.8 after 53 tests. In a sense he was lucky Australia was rebuilding from the ground up, and the selectors were willing to persist with him. There must be many other players who shake their heads in bewilderment at the time afforded Waugh to 'come good'. Of course he did - but it was a close run thing for a while.
3) With the retirement of the big three (Chappell, Lillee and Marsh), the demise of Kim Hughes, and the exodus of players to South Africa, Border was IT - the absolute and sole lynchpin of the side. Oppositions knew if they got AB out they were basically through the australian batting line up.
While Waugh performed similarly heroic feats from about '92, he was never really the sole class batsman in the side. By then the side had regulars such as Taylor, Boon, Mark Waugh, Border himself and Healy - all of whom played 100+ tests. Throw in Swampy Marsh and it was a pretty good line up.
In the dark days of Borders efforts in the mid 80's, the line up was rarely settled and there was rarely help for AB.
4) On balance - and I realise comparing eras is subjective - AB's career spanned a period in which test bowling IMHO was better than Tugga's. In fact strip out Waugh's two unbaten big hundreds against Bangladesh in his final year of test cricket and his average falls marginally below 50.
In short AB for me every time over Tugga.
OldSchool
22 Dec 2004, 08:31
Chappell went in with 2 leggies but I think Davidson should have been in te team instead of O'Reilly. Chappell of course should also be in the team.
Cassius_Clay
22 Dec 2004, 08:38
i cant belive don bradman has made the side...like what did he do :confused:
Cassius_Clay
22 Dec 2004, 08:39
What do people think of his team? Three other former greats will post theirs in the coming days. Here is the team :
Hayden
Ponsford :confused:
Bradman
Border
Harvey
Miller
Gilchrist
Lindwall
Warne
Lillee
O'Reilly
Morris (12th)
whats with the confused face??
Waugh v border is a hard one.
Personally I'd have Border ahead of Waugh for several reasons.
1) While never a number three batsman, Border batted for many years at number four, marginally higher up the order, with Steve slightly more sheltered at five for most of his career.
2) With the exception of couple of hurdles in 1982, Border performed from day one of his test career. Had he not, his career most likely would have ended much much earlier.
Waugh on the other hand averaged 31 after 25 tests, and 35.8 after 53 tests. In a sense he was lucky Australia was rebuilding from the ground up, and the selectors were willing to persist with him. There must be many other players who shake their heads in bewilderment at the time afforded Waugh to 'come good'. Of course he did - but it was a close run thing for a while.
3) With the retirement of the big three (Chappell, Lillee and Marsh), the demise of Kim Hughes, and the exodus of players to South Africa, Border was IT - the absolute and sole lynchpin of the side. Oppositions knew if they got AB out they were basically through the australian batting line up.
While Waugh performed similarly heroic feats from about '92, he was never really the sole class batsman in the side. By then the side had regulars such as Taylor, Boon, Mark Waugh, Border himself and Healy - all of whom played 100+ tests. Throw in Swampy Marsh and it was a pretty good line up.
In the dark days of Borders efforts in the mid 80's, the line up was rarely settled and there was rarely help for AB.
4) On balance - and I realise comparing eras is subjective - AB's career spanned a period in which test bowling IMHO was better than Tugga's. In fact strip out Waugh's two unbaten big hundreds against Bangladesh in his final year of test cricket and his average falls marginally below 50.
In short AB for me every time over Tugga.
oooh i dunno about your first point. Ain't much difference between 4 and 5 and don't forget AB spent his last 3 or 4 years batting at 5 or 6. So he was also then "sheltered" by likes of Boon in his prime, Taylor, Marsh.
But yeah he definitely had it tougher in his early years.
I guess I just think people are selling Waugh a bit short, remembering only his average-poor last 12-18 months. He was regarded as one of the best in the world for a remarkably long period and dug us out of sh1.t plenty of times. Also made plenty of heroic deeds himself (remember his famous 200 against Ambrose and co at Kingston in the early 90's).
But I honestly don't feel strongly enough about this to be arguing hard. You made a lot of good points and on another day I might have had AB it's that close. Then there's Chappell of course..
Wicked Lester
22 Dec 2004, 09:35
Yeah fair comments.
Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to sell Waugh short.
I rate him as one of the giants of australian cricket.
But I don't rate him in my all time Australian side.
In terms of middle order batsmen Bradman is a monty, as is Greg Chappell in my view (head and shoulders Australia's number two batsman of all time).
It's the one or two middle order positions that become difficult.
In the mix are Border, Harvey, Waugh, Ponting, McCabe, Trumper, Hassett, Ian Chappell and Dougie Walters.
Trumper's difficult to realistaically assess.
I rate he first three as ma4rginally above the rest, though if you went with a specialist keeper rather than Gilly I'd have Walters back in the mix in a flash.
But when it comes to a decision between Border and Waugh I'd go with Border for the reasons I stated earlier. It's a close run thing though.
Ice goddess
22 Dec 2004, 12:10
I agree with you Wicked Lester, Bradman will always be the greatest but GC probably second taking into account his record and who he batted against. He also had a good strike rate of 59 which looks better when you factor in the number of short balls they were allowed to bowl then and how every country had a quality bowler at the time. Players before the 90's didn't have the minnow nations to feast on either. Would rate Border ahead of Waugh (S), simply because he faced better bowling and Steve struggled the few times he batted at 3. He was always reluctant to go up the order and eventually cited old age as the reason why he wouldn't. Border might be a good bet at #6 where he could play the free flowing game of his earliest years.
Aah cricket in the seventies..
Lillee,Marsh,the Chappells,Thomo and Higgsy!!!