Crows Inaugural List

[SpringChoke]

Help !!!

Does anyone have a copy of the initial AFC list handy.

[RooDog]

Help !!!

Does anyone have a copy of the initial AFC list handy.

ive been looking all morning for you springy but i cant find one sorry matey, i tried google/yahoo searches, searches of afl.com.au too and came up empty handed as well. :(

[SpringChoke]

ive been looking all morning for you springy but i cant find one sorry matey, i tried google/yahoo searches, searches of afl.com.au too and came up empty handed as well. :(

Thanks RD. It's like trying to find a needle in a hay stack. Have a good NY's mate.

[Mad Dog]

Thanks RD. It's like trying to find a needle in a hay stack. Have a good NY's mate.
SC - check my post in the other thread

bugger it I'll post it here !!


1 S Lee 22
2 R Maynard 22
3 D Hart 22
4 J Klug 22
5 D Marshall 22
6 C McDermott 21
7 A McGuinness 21
8 M Mickan 21
9 N Smart 20
10 R Jameson 19
11 M Bickley 18
12 A Jarman 18
13 G Fielke 18
14 S Tregenza 17
15 S Hodges 13
16 M Liptak 12
17 B Lindner 11
18 A Bartlett 11
19 E Hocking 11
20 D Hughes 11
21 P McIntyre 10
22 S Tasker 9
23 B Abernethy 9
24 S Rowe 8
25 S Rehn 6
26 D Brown 6
27 B Lindsay 6
28 R Negri 6
29 W Weidemann 5
30 A Payze 5
31 D Smith 5
32 R Thompson 5
33 P Patterson 2
34 M Murphy 2
35 T Warhurst 2
36 M Kelly 1
37 C Lamb 1
38 B Hart -
39 D Pittman -
40 J Ross -
41 P Rouvray -
42 S Schwerdt -
43 R Bone -
44 P Turner -
45 B Sanderson -
46 A Saliba -
47 J Hocking -
48 G Tanner -
49 D Mellow -
50 D Bartsch -
51 T Clisby -
52 D McCarthy -

[SpringChoke]

SC - check my post in the other thread

bugger it I'll post it here !!


1 S Lee 22
2 R Maynard 22
3 D Hart 22
4 J Klug 22
5 D Marshall 22
6 C McDermott 21
7 A McGuinness 21
8 M Mickan 21
9 N Smart 20
10 R Jameson 19
11 M Bickley 18
12 A Jarman 18
13 G Fielke 18
14 S Tregenza 17
15 S Hodges 13
16 M Liptak 12
17 B Lindner 11
18 A Bartlett 11
19 E Hocking 11
20 D Hughes 11
21 P McIntyre 10
22 S Tasker 9
23 B Abernethy 9
24 S Rowe 8
25 S Rehn 6
26 D Brown 6
27 B Lindsay 6
28 R Negri 6
29 W Weidemann 5
30 A Payze 5
31 D Smith 5
32 R Thompson 5
33 P Patterson 2
34 M Murphy 2
35 T Warhurst 2
36 M Kelly 1
37 C Lamb 1
38 B Hart -
39 D Pittman -
40 J Ross -
41 P Rouvray -
42 S Schwerdt -
43 R Bone -
44 P Turner -
45 B Sanderson -
46 A Saliba -
47 J Hocking -
48 G Tanner -
49 D Mellow -
50 D Bartsch -
51 T Clisby -
52 D McCarthy -

Despite what the masses are saying MD, you're a good bloke in my book. :p Thanks mate.

[Mad Dog]

Despite what the masses think MD, you're a good bloke in my book. Thanks mate.

who's bin talking...what are they saying.... :confused: :eek:






:D

[noddy]

SC - check my post in the other thread

bugger it I'll post it here !!


49 D Mellow -
50 D Bartsch -
52 D McCarthy -

Must be getting past it as i can't for the life of me remember these guys. :confused:

[No 1 Draft Pick]

Must be getting past it as i can't for the life of me remember these guys. :confused:


49 D Mellow -
50 D Bartsch -
52 D McCarthy -

You are not the only one Noddy! I suppose 14 years and a number of beers later mean its somewhat justifiable for us to not remember a few of these duds who dont ever appear to have played a game for us.

A few of these players that played only a handful of games did have big wraps at the time - Matthew Kelly from Norwood, Adam Saliba from North ('the next Andrew Jarman'), Peter Turner (Sturt from memory), Jarrod Hocking (Glenelg?) and Jonathon Ross.

I think Cornes did very well identifying so much young talent - Rehn, Hart, Roo, Mods, Smarty, Pittman, Wellman etc. If a few of the above 'potentials' had lived up to expectations we would have had an even better first decade in the competition

[Mad Dog]

Must be getting past it as i can't for the life of me remember these guys. :confused:


Never fear Noddy - if I hadn't been keeping track - then I wouldn't know them if I was ********ing on them...

Damien Mellow - on ball flanker type

Darren Bartch - tall Ruck type

Damien McCarthy - reminded me a bit of Randell Bone to look at - same build etc

needless to say they were as about as memorable as their talent was recognisable !!

[topjars]

49 D Mellow

This guy is no dud.
Coaching Crystal Brook at the moment and his disposal is still good enough to put a lot of Crows players to shame. :p

[No 1 Draft Pick]

This guy is no dud.
Coaching Crystal Brook at the moment and his disposal is still good enough to put a lot of Crows players to shame. :p


No offence meant. Why didnt he make AFL? Injuries, motivation?

[topjars]

Nun taken. Im not sure. He was at South Adelaide when drafted...I think it was a case of more better players were at the Crows disposal.

There would be many a player not taken that probably wouldve done OK over the years.

[missionpossible]

This brings back memories of when I was a crows supporter. Looking back on it there is still two things that stand out to me
1- how short term the list was with some of the senior players on the list (ie. Lee, Marshall, Fielke, Lindner, Lindsay, Warhurst, Lamb, Hughes, Abernethy and Clisby)
2- the lack of port adelaide players considering we won the 1990 premiership.

Grant Tanner and Brendan Sanderson went on to serve geelong very well.

Adam Saliba and Jonathon Ross, oh what could have been. But at 19 and the girls around town throwing themselves at you it is understandable how some guys dont take the oppurtunities presented to them as seriously as they should have.

Scott Hodges a good first season considering how many times the ball went over his head when on an open lead. Then an ankle injury which he was never the same after.

[Crow-mosone]

Nun taken. Im not sure. He was at South Adelaide when drafted...I think it was a case of more better players were at the Crows disposal.

There would be many a player not taken that probably wouldve done OK over the years.

I thought he was a norwood boy at the time? and he came to us later. might be wrong though.

[dyertribe]

I thought he was a norwood boy at the time? and he came to us later. might be wrong though.

I think you're right, but my memory is equally fuzzy. I don't have it on me, but my Crows 1991 yearbook (the one with Hodges on the front, "year 1 in the big league" etc) will have the answer.

I'll try and post some of the profiles/info up here sometime late tomorrow if noone beats me to the punch.

Out of interest, his greatest AFL claim to fame was when his girlfriend was on Street Talk a few years back:

- "Sam, my boyfriend was on the Crows' first list!"
- "And what was his name madam?"
- "Damien Mellow!"
- "..."

:D

[tredders16]

This brings back memories of when I was a crows supporter. Looking back on it there is still two things that stand out to me
1- how short term the list was with some of the senior players on the list (ie. Lee, Marshall, Fielke, Lindner, Lindsay, Warhurst, Lamb, Hughes, Abernethy and Clisby)
2- the lack of port adelaide players considering we won the 1990 premiership.

Grant Tanner and Brendan Sanderson went on to serve geelong very well.

Adam Saliba and Jonathon Ross, oh what could have been. But at 19 and the girls around town throwing themselves at you it is understandable how some guys dont take the oppurtunities presented to them as seriously as they should have.

Scott Hodges a good first season considering how many times the ball went over his head when on an open lead. Then an ankle injury which he was never the same after.

I have got a few hours to burn at work so I have had a decent look at the 1990 premiership side and think the Crows got what they needed out of it.

For example:

Already drafted before the Crows could get them were:

Wanganeen - Essendon
Hynes - West Coast
R Smith - St Kilda

Ex Delisted VFL players:

M Williams - Coll/Bris
S Williams - Bris
Foster - Carlton
Rizonico - Coll
Phillips - Coll
Johnston - Geel?
Baker - Bris

Hardly AFL players:

Mahney
Phelps
Ginever
Hutton
Fiacchi
Settre
Northeast

Leaving:

Hodges
D Smith
Tregenza
Abernethy

NOTE:

D Brown was out injured with a torn hamstring
R Smith(drafted to St Kilda) was out injured with a broken jaw courtesy of K Klomp in Preliminary Final

Hardly an abundant list of ready made AFL players but were good enough to win their third flag in three years. :D

Now if you want to talk about the Glenelg GF side from 1990 and how many made it onto the inaugural list, that opens up another huge can of worms!!! :confused:

[Macca19]

I thought Mellow was a Glenelg player.

[Kane McGoodwin]

I thought Mellow was a Glenelg player.
Pretty sure Mellow was a Norwood player.

[dyertribe]

Pretty sure Mellow was a Norwood player.

Correct.

[Sheeds]

I actually had a huge Crows poster from the end of the 1991 season. Basically it had a picture of every player from the initial sqaud, their stats for the year and was signed by every player and looked the goods framed. It was absolutely massive. It is probably in the shed somewhere, I should track it down.

I was not a Crows fan at all but my dad was pretty good friends with Peter McIntyre and Darren Smith so got the poster through them. Apart from that the only Crows related merchandise I have is half of Nigel Smart's tie from his South Adelaide days courtesy of Klanger, ex South Adelaide player who managed to smuggle it for me as a momento.

[snap-shot]

Apart from that the only Crows related merchandise I have is half of Nigel Smart's tie from his South Adelaide days courtesy of Klanger, ex South Adelaide player who managed to smuggle it for me as a momento.

Peter(?) Klenjans?

He was the nutcase with a mop for a haircut who graced the SANFL with handstands and cartwheels in the early 90s wasn't he?

Great value :D

[Sheeds]

Yep your on the money Snap-Shot. I knew a lot of the South Adelaide players and Klanger definately was a character. Played mostly reserve games but will be remembered for his handstand picture after the 91 reserves GF against the eagles that graced the paper the next day.

He currently owns the Grace Emily pub in the city, im sure most Adelaidians know of it or have been there. One of the best pubs for live music.

[Leaping Lindner]

49 D Mellow -
50 D Bartsch -
52 D McCarthy -

You are not the only one Noddy! I suppose 14 years and a number of beers later mean its somewhat justifiable for us to not remember a few of these duds who dont ever appear to have played a game for us.

A few of these players that played only a handful of games did have big wraps at the time - Matthew Kelly from Norwood, Adam Saliba from North ('the next Andrew Jarman'), Peter Turner (Sturt from memory), Jarrod Hocking (Glenelg?) and Jonathon Ross.

I think Cornes did very well identifying so much young talent - Rehn, Hart, Roo, Mods, Smarty, Pittman, Wellman etc. If a few of the above 'potentials' had lived up to expectations we would have had an even better first decade in the competition

Peter Turner was a North boy as a matter of interest. He was taken at the same time as Ben Hart and played much better football at North than Ben Hart, he just couldn't "step-up" unfortunately. They both debuted in the 1990 finals series and Turner was North's second best in his second game (the 1990 prelim).

[Leaping Lindner]

Yep your on the money Snap-Shot. I knew a lot of the South Adelaide players and Klanger definately was a character. Played mostly reserve games but will be remembered for his handstand picture after the 91 reserves GF against the eagles that graced the paper the next day.

He currently owns the Grace Emily pub in the city, im sure most Adelaidians know of it or have been there. One of the best pubs for live music.

Wasn't he the bloke that looked like a walking canvas (covered in tattoos)???

[PrideOf]

I have got a few hours to burn at work so I have had a decent look at the 1990 premiership side and think the Crows got what they needed out of it.

.....

Now if you want to talk about the Glenelg GF side from 1990 and how many made it onto the inaugural list, that opens up another huge can of worms!!! :confused:

Thanks for that research Tredders. We actually had a few of those Port boys listed in our original training squad but they were cut: Fiacchi, Hutton, Johnston, Phillips & Williams. Nothing special there, but one or two of them may have been ahead of Bartlett, Rouvray and Clayton Lamb.

Johnston I thought was particularly stiff. Darren Bartsch got in ahead of him.

[Magpiespower]

The biggest recruiting blunder the Crows made was the Darren Jarman fiasco with Kerls relying on a handshake instead of a signature. I know Kerls was running around like a madman trying to get players on board, but that was just plain incompetent. If memory serves me correct, the Crows missed out on Richard Champion because they were focusing on Jarman.

Mark Williams wasn't actually delisted. He retired from the Bears mid-season and returned to Adelaide. How much did he know, I wonder? Still, someone as forthright and opinionated as Chocco was never going to get a guernsey, even though he probably should. His authority would haved posed too big a threat to the ugly three-headed Glenelg monster, though his experience would have been invaluable in that first season.

Phillips and Johnston were already past their prime by 1991, likewise Abba although he did manage to stay on the list for two years. Of those premiership players mentioned, only Northers could have made it I reckon.

It was GREG Klenjans wasn't it? Long-haired lout with tats?

I think you'll find Peter Turner was blessed with natural talent but wasn't exactly dedicated. The same could be said of Adam Saliba and Jonathan Ross - the poster boy of wasted talent.

Darren Bartsch ended up at Alberton in '94 although he didn't make much of an impression with the Magpies.

[dyertribe]

Thanks for that research Tredders. We actually had a few of those Port boys listed in our original training squad but they were cut: Fiacchi, Hutton, Johnston, Phillips & Williams. Nothing special there, but one or two of them may have been ahead of Bartlett, Rouvray and Clayton Lamb.

Johnston I thought was particularly stiff. Darren Bartsch got in ahead of him.

It is clear that most of Graham Cornes' Glenelg selections were iffy at best, nepotistic at worst.

Out of the Tiger crop of McDermott, Marshall, Jameson, Liptak, Bartlett, Thompson, Murphy, Rouvray, Lamb and Hocking, only the first four proved to be AFL standard, and even then Marshall's career was at eclipse.

Pure speculation I know, but had we selected the likes of Fiacchi, Ginever, Phillips (Camp Crow at Rapid Bay probably would have killed him) and Johnston we would've had a bit more resolve and mongrel in us in those first couple of seasons - remember, the majority of those Glenelg and North (Trevor Clisby? Ah, then why not Steven Sims!) boys had folded like a house of cards in the previous three Grand Finals.

[Leaping Lindner]

Pretty sure Mellow was a Norwood player.

Sorted!!
Thank Robran for old Footy Times yearbooks.

Greg Mellor debuted in 1990 with WEST Adelaide (5 games;6 goals) originally from Lock

[dyertribe]

Sorted!!
Thank Robran for old Footy Times yearbooks.

Greg Mellor debuted in 1990 with WEST Adelaide (5 games;6 goals) originally from Lock

Eh?

Damien Mellow.

According to my 1991 Crows Yearbook he was a Norwood player at the time.

[Leaping Lindner]

It is clear that most of Graham Cornes' Glenelg selections were iffy at best, nepotistic at worst.

Out of the Tiger crop of McDermott, Marshall, Jameson, Liptak, Bartlett, Thompson, Murphy, Rouvray, Lamb and Hocking, only the first four proved to be AFL standard, and even then Marshall's career was at eclipse.

Pure speculation I know, but had we selected the likes of Fiacchi, Ginever, Phillips (Camp Crow at Rapid Bay probably would have killed him) and Johnston we would've had a bit more resolve and mongrel in us in those first couple of seasons - remember, the majority of those Glenelg and North (Trevor Clisby? Ah, then why not Steven Sims!) boys had folded like a house of cards in the previous three Grand Finals.

If John Cahill had been the Crows first coach (which IMO he should have been) I would have had no hesitation in picking those Port boys. I tend to think that he got the absolute maximum out of them and that is something that Cornes couldn't have done.

Also Non-North people do tend to forget that Clisby did get 11 votes in the 1990 Magarey and was (along with Phillips)the in form CHB in the SANFL at the time. 30 years old is probably not the ideal time to start an AFL career (and training 13 days out of 14).

[Leaping Lindner]

Eh?

Damien Mellow.

According to my 1991 Crows Yearbook he was a Norwood player at the time.

Oops my mistake. I read it as MelloR. I take it that Mellow hadn't played league by 1990 as he isn't on Norwood's senior list.

(EDIT) Just found my 91/92 Footy times yearbook. Damien Mellow debuted in 91 for Norwood playing 19 games and kicking 12 goals. Also says he is from Campbelltown.

[tredders16]

Mark Williams wasn't actually delisted. He retired from the Bears mid-season and returned to Adelaide. How much did he know, I wonder? Still, someone as forthright and opinionated as Chocco was never going to get a guernsey, even though he probably should. His authority would haved posed too big a threat to the ugly three-headed Glenelg monster, though his experience would have been invaluable in that first season.

Phillips and Johnston were already past their prime by 1991, likewise Abba although he did manage to stay on the list for two years. Of those premiership players mentioned, only Northers could have made it I reckon.



Did Mark return when Anthony was tragically killed to be with his family? I thought he would have never been de-listed because he was a too good a player. The Crows could have done with his experience and mongrel. Agree with you about Kutchie and Johnno but Northeast wasn't excactly the most skilled player ever and would probably been caught out in the AFL. Agression sometimes doesn't just get you over the line.

[missionpossible]

Thank tredders16.
I was trying to find my video of the game to see who was in the team but it is hidden somewhere when we shifted, I must empty some more boxes.
I must say I am surprised that there was no mead or delaney playing. I cant remember the ages of all the players listed so I wont argue for anyone in particular but can remember at that point in time I would have had about 8 port players in the team.
I just wish someone could have taugh mcguinness how to run through a player.

[dyertribe]

I must say I am surprised that there was no mead or delaney playing.

Batman had already accepted an offer to play with the Roys at the end of 1989 (broke his leg on debut and never played at that level again - thus I'm not sure whether Fitzroy would've been too happy to have him released back to Port and then have him turn up in Crows colours in time for 1991 or 1992 - so I'm guessing there may have been some sort of contractual issue there, especially considering we were still back in the days of transfer fees and clearances), while Meady was actually drafted to Essendon at the end of 1988 but signed a three year deal with Port.

I'm not sure why he wasn't on the Crows' inaugural list, but with Cornesy going with pets over talent more often than not, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he was overlooked entirely.

[Magpiespower]

I don't know the exact reasons for Chocco returning to Adelaide, maybe it was purely a coincidence that it was around the same time Weber announced the AFL bid.

As for Mead, well, Essendon, Collingwood and Brisbane, as well as the Crows, tried to lure him over the years. The simple fact was - he just wanted to play for Port Adelaide. At the time the Crows came in, he would have been 19-20. Made his debut in 1989 and immediately impressed although it took him another 3-4 years to become a regular league player.

[PrideOf]

Batman had already accepted an offer to play with the Roys at the end of 1989 ... while Meady was actually drafted to Essendon at the end of 1988 but signed a three year deal with Port.

We were only allowed to sign 10 players who were already on AFL clubs draft lists (putting to bed the theory that we had the 'whole of South Australia' to choose from).

We selected:
Darren Bartsch (from West Adelaide - Geelong)
Andrew Jarman (from North Adelaide - Brisbane)
David Pittman (from Norwood - Essendon)
Stephen Schwerdt (from Central District - West Coast)
Rodney Jameson (from Glenelg - North Melbourne)
Matthew Kelly (from Norwood - Collingwood)
Andrew Payze (from West Torrens - Richmond)
Paul Rouvray (from Glenelg - Melbourne)
Simon Tregenza (from Port Adelaide - Footscray)
Darren Jarman (from North Adelaide - Brisbane)
* who we all know cut and run on us, costing us the chance to sign Richard Champion

So we signed up:
Darren Smith (from Port Adelaide - Essendon)

Why didn't we include Mead on that list?

Made his debut in 1989 and immediately impressed although it took him another 3-4 years to become a regular league player.

Because when we had to select our side in late 1990, Mead was still 2-3 years away from becoming a regular league player.

[Leaping Lindner]

Darren Jarman (from North Adelaide - Brisbane)
* who we all know cut and run on us, costing us the chance to sign Richard Champion

....................

Yeah I wish we'd signed Champs as I am sure he would have kicked 11 goals in two grand finals for us.
Maybe we should see if we can get the full story on the Jarman signing stuff up from Neil "Mr Diplomacy" Kerley.

[noddy]

We were only allowed to sign 10 players who were already on AFL clubs draft lists (putting to bed the theory that we had the 'whole of South Australia' to choose from).

We selected:
Darren Bartsch (from West Adelaide - Geelong)
Andrew Jarman (from North Adelaide - Brisbane)
David Pittman (from Norwood - Essendon)
Stephen Schwerdt (from Central District - West Coast)
Rodney Jameson (from Glenelg - North Melbourne)
Matthew Kelly (from Norwood - Collingwood)
Andrew Payze (from West Torrens - Richmond)
Paul Rouvray (from Glenelg - Melbourne)
Simon Tregenza (from Port Adelaide - Footscray)
Darren Jarman (from North Adelaide - Brisbane)
* who we all know cut and run on us, costing us the chance to sign Richard Champion

So we signed up:
Darren Smith (from Port Adelaide - Essendon).

Ford Fairlane ! please take note of the above.

[dyertribe]

Yeah I wish we'd signed Champs as I am sure he would have kicked 11 goals in two grand finals for us.
Maybe we should see if we can get the full story on the Jarman signing stuff up from Neil "Mr Diplomacy" Kerley.

Different times. We still would've got him back five years later as he was busting to come home and play with his brother.

Having Richard Champion in the backlines would've certainly stemmed some of the bleeding during those early expeditions east.

Maybe we should see if we can get the full story on the Jarman signing stuff up from Neil "Mr Diplomacy" Kerley.

Wasn't it Kerls who also took Mark Viska over Andrew McKay?

[noddy]

Yeah I wish we'd signed Champs as I am sure he would have kicked 11 goals in two grand finals for us.
Maybe we should see if we can get the full story on the Jarman signing stuff up from Neil "Mr Diplomacy" Kerley.

I can remember Kerley saying something about that a few years ago & if i'm correct the Hawthorn recruitment team had a lot to do with it & when it was all done & dusted the Hawks president supposedly had said to the Crows something like this " You guys had better get use to it your in the big league now"

Part of the blame should still be put on Neil Kerley for not making the effort to sign up Darren Jarman as soon as possible.

[PrideOf]

when it was all done & dusted the Hawks president supposedly had said to the Crows something like this " You guys had better get use to it your in the big league now"

Yeah, we were naive. We should have kept a few players out of the draft and copped the fine.

[SpringChoke]

I suppose we can complain about who we should have/ should not have listed on our inaugural list but I think we did a reasonable job considering we had less than 6 months to build a team, thanks to elements beyond our control.

Isn't treason punishable by death in some countries?? If only. ;)

[No 1 Draft Pick]

We were only allowed to sign 10 players who were already on AFL clubs draft lists (putting to bed the theory that we had the 'whole of South Australia' to choose from).

We selected:
Darren Bartsch (from West Adelaide - Geelong)
Andrew Jarman (from North Adelaide - Brisbane)
David Pittman (from Norwood - Essendon)
Stephen Schwerdt (from Central District - West Coast)
Rodney Jameson (from Glenelg - North Melbourne)
Matthew Kelly (from Norwood - Collingwood)
Andrew Payze (from West Torrens - Richmond)
Paul Rouvray (from Glenelg - Melbourne)
Simon Tregenza (from Port Adelaide - Footscray)
Darren Jarman (from North Adelaide - Brisbane)
* who we all know cut and run on us, costing us the chance to sign Richard Champion

So we signed up:
Darren Smith (from Port Adelaide - Essendon)

.


I could be wrong but from memory the player we replaced Darren Jarman with was David Brown

[dyertribe]

I suppose we can complain about who we should have/ should not have listed on our inaugural list but I think we did a reasonable job considering we had less than 6 months to build a team, thanks to elements beyond our control.

Isn't treason punishable by death in some countries?? If only. ;)

We know the circumstances behind the Crows' birth were controversial and did put the first entity into one helluva struggle to create an entire franchise from scratch - but - in hindsight the timing was spot on.

Max Basheer and the SANFL had set down the next review date to view the possibility of SA joining the national comp in 1994. If we had decided to take the plunge then and had indeed joined in 1995, imagine the dregs we'd have left to try and build some semblance of a side at that late juncture?

Rehn, Hart, Smart, Modra and every other youngster worth their salt would have long since been snapped up by the AFL and we'd have to form a side with what? Phil McGuinness? Brenton Phillips? Brodie Atkinson? Maybe have a long shot at a 'gun' recruit like Matthew Nicks, David Grenvold or David Hynes to come back?

Had we entered when the SANFL were next going to take a look at the possibility, we'd currently have a history more pathetic than Freo's. So every cloud does indeed have a silver lining... even if it rains lemon juice every now and then ;)

[SpringChoke]

We know the circumstances behind the Crows' birth were controversial and did put the first entity into one helluva struggle to create an entire franchise from scratch - but - in hindsight the timing was spot on.

Max Basheer and the SANFL had set down the next review date to view the possibility of SA joining the national comp in 1994. If we had decided to take the plunge then and had indeed joined in 1995, imagine the dregs we'd have left to try and build some semblance of a side at that late juncture?

Rehn, Hart, Smart, Modra and every other youngster worth their salt would have long since been snapped up by the AFL and we'd have to form a side with what? Phil McGuinness? Brenton Phillips? Brodie Atkinson? Maybe have a long shot at a 'gun' recruit like Matthew Nicks, David Grenvold or David Hynes to come back?

Had we entered when the SANFL were next going to take a look at the possibility, we'd currently have a history more pathetic than Freo's. So every cloud does indeed have a silver lining... even if it rains lemon juice every now and then ;)

Yeah good point DT. However, if you asked the powers that be at the AFC, I'm sure they would have preferred more time to build a club then less then 6 months. What did Port get 3 years?

[No 1 Draft Pick]

We know the circumstances behind the Crows' birth were controversial and did put the first entity into one helluva struggle to create an entire franchise from scratch - but - in hindsight the timing was spot on.

Max Basheer and the SANFL had set down the next review date to view the possibility of SA joining the national comp in 1994. If we had decided to take the plunge then and had indeed joined in 1995, imagine the dregs we'd have left to try and build some semblance of a side at that late juncture?

Rehn, Hart, Smart, Modra and every other youngster worth their salt would have long since been snapped up by the AFL and we'd have to form a side with what? Phil McGuinness? Brenton Phillips? Brodie Atkinson? Maybe have a long shot at a 'gun' recruit like Matthew Nicks, David Grenvold or David Hynes to come back?

Had we entered when the SANFL were next going to take a look at the possibility, we'd currently have a history more pathetic than Freo's. So every cloud does indeed have a silver lining... even if it rains lemon juice every now and then ;)


Very true regarding quality of youngsters available in early 90's v mid 90s

Additionally what would have happened if in the 3-4 subsequent years (1991-1994) the other clubs watched West Coast play in 3 GF's for 2 Flags. There would have been an almighty outcry against any meaningful concessions being given to the Crows and we would have lost out on both fronts - draft concessions and players available

[Leaping Lindner]

We know the circumstances behind the Crows' birth were controversial and did put the first entity into one helluva struggle to create an entire franchise from scratch - but - in hindsight the timing was spot on.

Max Basheer and the SANFL had set down the next review date to view the possibility of SA joining the national comp in 1994. If we had decided to take the plunge then and had indeed joined in 1995, imagine the dregs we'd have left to try and build some semblance of a side at that late juncture?

Rehn, Hart, Smart, Modra and every other youngster worth their salt would have long since been snapped up by the AFL and we'd have to form a side with what? Phil McGuinness? Brenton Phillips? Brodie Atkinson? Maybe have a long shot at a 'gun' recruit like Matthew Nicks, David Grenvold or David Hynes to come back?

Had we entered when the SANFL were next going to take a look at the possibility, we'd currently have a history more pathetic than Freo's. So every cloud does indeed have a silver lining... even if it rains lemon juice every now and then ;)

Interesting point. Although I was under the impression it was 92 that the SANFL had as the joining date. I have to say I am also not totally convinced that we would have lost that many players to the AFL in the meantime.I know for a fact that Darren Jarman was contracted to North til the end of 92, and McDermott and Andrew Jarman were under contract at Glenelg and Norwood - all of course subject to a South Australian team joining the AFL.
By the way please don't mention Brenton Phillips in the same sentence as Phil McGuiness in the future. ;) :D

[No 1 Draft Pick]

I have to say I am also not totally convinced that we would have lost that many players to the AFL in the meantime.I know for a fact that Darren Jarman was contracted to North til the end of 92, and McDermott and Andrew Jarman were under contract at Glenelg and Norwood -

These guys mentioned and some other established SANFL players were under the retention scheme so its fair to assume we could have kept a number of them for a few more years (if not all of them).

However if you look at the back bone of our premiership years it was the youngsters from 1991 that were the class acts:

Smart
Hart
Riccuitto
Modra
Rehn
Wellman (for Jarman)

In my view we would have lost a number, if not all, of these young guys to other clubs unless the promise of the 'possibility' of an Adelaide side was somewhat more formalised

[dyertribe]

Interesting point. Although I was under the impression it was 92 that the SANFL had as the joining date.

I had a Budget from 1989 that had in it an article that had 1994 set down for the next point of review - it is also important to note that the SANFL were dead set against joining the AFL after seeing how the inclusion of West Coast in 1987 had practically destroyed the WAFL. Max Basheer even went as far to say he would never be a party to that sort of decision which would do that sort of thing to the SANFL. Hence, the next review was laid down in the 'distant future' of 1994.

Relations were soured further with a series of SANFL-backed legal queries and challenges to the draft system as it was, where it was rightly concluded that it was a restraint of trade. The VFL tried to raise the stakes by cancelling our annual SOO game in 1990 - where they were famously beaten by our replacements in the fixture, NSW - but we still wouldn't have a bar of them as an unofficial war raged in and between the respective presses of both states.

That is why Port's backstage bid, blown open by The Age, was/is viewed as such treachery.

There was no way in hell Basheer and the SANFL would have even considered entering the AFL so early the way things stood prior to Port's move.

[Leaping Lindner]

I had a Budget from 1989 that had in it an article that had 1994 set down for the next point of review - it is also important to note that the SANFL were dead set against joining the AFL after seeing how the inclusion of West Coast in 1987 had practically destroyed the WAFL. Max Basheer even went as far to say he would never be a party to that sort of decision which would do that sort of thing to the SANFL. Hence, the next review was laid down in the 'distant future' of 1994.

Relations were soured further with a series of SANFL-backed legal queries and challenges to the draft system as it was, where it was rightly concluded that it was a restraint of trade. The VFL tried to raise the stakes by cancelling our annual SOO game in 1990 - where they were famously beaten by our replacements in the fixture, NSW - but we still wouldn't have a bar of them as an unofficial war raged in and between the respective presses of both states.

That is why Port's backstage bid, blown open by The Age, was/is viewed as such treachery.

There was no way in hell Basheer and the SANFL would have even considered entering the AFL so early the way things stood prior to Port's move.

Fair enough. I don't where I read 92 but it does stick in my mind. Apparently the reason given for cancelling the SOO game in 1990 by the Vics was they found out part of the gate receipt was going into the SANFL Player retention scheme. Still what a winner that City versus Country clash was instead :D