Wells Vs Carey

[wellsythegr8]

At the time of the decision, do u think that the Adelaide Football Club made the right decision in giving up pick 4 (to become pick 2) and Kane Johnson for Wayne Carey and Jason Torney?

Obviously with the benefit of hindsight, u would most likely take Wells and keep Johnson, however keeping in mind that at the time, they thought they were only giving up pick 4 and that Wayne may have been the necessary ingredient for premierships success the decison is more plausible and acceptable.

Or do u think the club should have realised the need to begin re-building and as such kept the high draft pick? :confused:

[Bresh]

I think the AFC est. 1991 found out first hand what happens when you ******** a stranger in the ass...

http://thugbot.net/features/lebowski/img/10.jpg

[macca23]

I was all for getting Wayne Carey at the time, but not at the expense of giving up picks 2 and 18 (originally 4 and 20). My thoughts at the time,and nothing has changed that view, was that pick 18 was a fair trade for a 32 year old with crook shoulders that had been disowned by the club.

Hindsight says just how bad that deal actually was. Wells is going to be a top-liner, and could have been a Crow.

From Adelaide's point of view, a dumb, dumb trade.

[Snickers]

Hindsight is a beautiful thing!

[wellsythegr8]

I was all for getting Wayne Carey at the time, but not at the expense of giving up picks 2 and 18 (originally 4 and 20). My thoughts at the time,and nothing has changed that view, was that pick 18 was a fair trade for a 32 year old with crook shoulders that had been disowned by the club.

Hindsight says just how bad that deal actually was. Wells is going to be a top-liner, and could have been a Crow.

From Adelaide's point of view, a dumb, dumb trade.

So if u knew it was going to be picks 2 and 18 u wouldn't have done the deal?

[Crow-mosone]

we should have kept pick 2 and kane johnson? do tell?

geez, this annoys me. what does everyone want to do, sit on our hands when we appeared so close? then everyone would be complaining how you need to take a risk if you want to get anywhere.

join the real world, you take risks to get anywhere. If you don't think so, stay in school.

At the time I thought the price was a little high, but if that was the price of doing business so be it.

[Thewlis Dish]

So if u knew it was going to be picks 2 and 18 u wouldn't have done the deal?

I was all for getting Wayne Carey at the time, but not at the expense of giving up picks 2 and 18 (originally 4 and 20).

.....

[outback jack]

at the time i was happy to get carey, but i honestly thought he was on the way out (easy to say that in hindsight) but i remember he was getting alot of groin and leg injuries. He had a poor yr too before he had that affair. i though pick 4 would have been nice, esp considering we hadnt had many high picks, and in hindsight its pretty clear who won............

i was also ********ed with the richmond deal, my understanding is that we swapped our 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders and swapped torney for johnson. not sure if this is 100% right. If it is, thats a shocking trade should have told richmond give us 4 or dont worry about it. Johnson was soooooo important to us.

If we had got pick 4 without trading away our first rounder, we could have got someone like schammer, he went at about that pick, not 100% sure though

looking at it whoever did these deals should be sacked. Set the club back 5 yrs easy. Trading has always been our weakness

[outback jack]

we should have kept pick 2 and kane johnson? do tell?

geez, this annoys me. what does everyone want to do, sit on our hands when we appeared so close? then everyone would be complaining how you need to take a risk if you want to get anywhere.

join the real world, you take risks to get anywhere. If you don't think so, stay in school.

At the time I thought the price was a little high, but if that was the price of doing business so be it.

yeah, but if this was the price, then we should have pushed harder on other deals where we had the power like johnson or stenglein. We could have made them pay, how come we always seem to break even or lose in trade deals, have we ever ripped anyone off??

[wellsythegr8]

yeah, but if this was the price, then we should have pushed harder on other deals where we had the power like johnson or stenglein. We could have made them pay, how come we always seem to break even or lose in trade deals, have we ever ripped anyone off??

You did well in the Darren Jarman trade!

[outback jack]

You did well in the Darren Jarman trade!


gave up a good player though

[Thewlis Dish]

gave up a good player though

A good player in Wellman for a star in Jarman.

What were you expecting to give up?

[wellsythegr8]

gave up a good player though

I'd take Jarman and the 2 premierships he was an integral part of for Wellman every day of the week!

[outback jack]

I'd take Jarman and the 2 premierships he was an integral part of for Wellman every day of the week!


yeah we did ok, but cant say we ripped them off completely. wasnt there some picks involved as well in the jarman deal i think there was?? wellman wasnt a bad player, although not in the class of jarman. Cant think of any other deals where we did well..........

[blue boy]

i would take kane jonson and pick 4 any day evryone knew that wayne carey was nealry at the end of his carrer

[DaveW]

Sigh.

a) At no point did we have pick 4(2) AND Kane Johnson. It's clear you don't understand the nature of this trade deal. If indeed you understand the nature of trading at all.

b) Kane Johnson was already lost to us. Keeping him simply wasn't an option. You'd know this if you'd been following football for more than two years.

[Crow-mosone]

You did well in the Darren Jarman trade!

how old are you?

[jmorg1]

Pick 4(2) was given to us as part of the trade for Johnson. So how exactly would we have BOTH pick 4 and Kane Johnson?

[Capitalist]

I am happy with what Torney has done and I think we should look beyond Wanyes on field performances - didnt anyone else notice the changes in players such as rutten, hentschel etc after a just one season learning from the Wayne ? I'm quiet sure he brought alot more to the crows than just 20 odd games

[noddy]

You did well in the Darren Jarman trade!

We did didn't we

In trades you win some, you lose some.

Move on people.

[noddy]

I am happy with what Torney has done and I think we should look beyond Wanyes on field performances - didnt anyone else notice the changes in players such as rutten, hentschel etc after a just one season learning from the Wayne ? I'm quiet sure he brought alot more to the crows than just 20 odd games

Correct!!

Am i right in that Wayne Carey has bought a pub somewhere in Adelaide ??

[Kane McGoodwin]

Sigh.

a) At no point did we have pick 4(2) AND Kane Johnson. It's clear you don't understand the nature of this trade deal. If indeed you understand the nature of trading at all.

b) Kane Johnson was already lost to us. Keeping him simply wasn't an option. You'd know this if you'd been following football for more than two years.
Yep, been done to death & this time by a poll that doesn't even reflect our choices. ie. Sugar was returning home so keeping him was never an option, let alone with pick 4(2) thrown in as a bonus if he decided to stay.

We gave up too much for Carey, but we probably gained more than expected for Stenglein. ie. You win some, you lose some. The most important thing is not to dwell on it & move forward.

[Markthirtytwo]

I was all for getting Wayne Carey at the time, but not at the expense of giving up picks 2 and 18 (originally 4 and 20). My thoughts at the time,and nothing has changed that view, was that pick 18 was a fair trade for a 32 year old with crook shoulders that had been disowned by the club.

Hindsight says just how bad that deal actually was. Wells is going to be a top-liner, and could have been a Crow.

From Adelaide's point of view, a dumb, dumb trade.

Ah but who's to say if we would have picked Wells anyway the way we have picked up until this year. :mad:

[No 1 Draft Pick]

yeah we did ok, but cant say we ripped them off completely. wasnt there some picks involved as well in the jarman deal i think there was?? wellman wasnt a bad player, although not in the class of jarman. Cant think of any other deals where we did well..........


Jack Did It you loser. I am trying to restrain myself being the festive season and all......but......

The Crows have been the beneficiary of the biggest one-sided trade of all time.

Andrew Mc Leod for Chris Groom

Dual Norm Smiths in our great campaigns in 97 and 98. Jack - please tell me the emotions you felt when we won the flags in 97/98. How did you celebrate? Some of the best days of your life huh. :rolleyes:

[BulldogMike]

No Adelaide fans, an injury plagued player on the verge of retirement was definately a rip-off as the exciting Wells will be carving it up making the club look like fools for years.

[Jumbo]

[QUOTE= I think we should look beyond Wanyes on field performances - didnt anyone else notice the changes in players such as rutten, hentschel etc after a justt alot more to the crows than just 20 odd games[/QUOTE]


On the flip side I think PERRIE was much worse off due to having the presence of WAYNE at the club. PERRIE would have felt inferior (not the lone ranger there) and didn't come on at all even with WAYNE'S tutorage.

[Capitalist]

[QUOTE= I think we should look beyond Wanyes on field performances - didnt anyone else notice the changes in players such as rutten, hentschel etc after a justt alot more to the crows than just 20 odd games


On the flip side I think PERRIE was much worse off due to having the presence of WAYNE at the club. PERRIE would have felt inferior (not the lone ranger there) and didn't come on at all even with WAYNE'S tutorage.[/QUOTE]


I would say that Perrie would be an exception, thats just the way he is, He still would have learnt alot about were to position yourself and other ways of playing in the forward line, I'm sure Hentschel would have learnt a buckload,
And if you look at the way rutten played in the last few games he looks to have mimicked alot of the way WAYNE carried himself.

I would say WAYNE had more benefits than negatrives for the adealide FC

Also I argue the point that it was either the WAYNE ot wells as we may not have picked Wells up in the draft - considering out position

[No 1 Draft Pick]

On the flip side I think PERRIE was much worse off due to having the presence of WAYNE at the club. PERRIE would have felt inferior (not the lone ranger there) and didn't come on at all even with WAYNE'S tutorage.


:confused: Perrie had his best year in AFL in 2003 when Carey joined the Crows

[wellsythegr8]

how old are you?
Why???

[Roobunny]

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this...

The Crows traded pick 4 to us for Wayne Carey. Pick 4 came from Richmond as part of the Kane Johnson trade. Now being an Adelaidean I know that Johnson was going that he'd made clear and he wanted to go to Richmond so that trade was being done regardless of whether Carey came or not.

Pick 4 only became pick 2 after Carlton got themselves booted out of the draft, which happened after trade week. Daniel Wells was expected to go at number 2ish so it was always thought he'd end up at Carlton. Neither Richmond or Adelaide realised or could realise at the time that they had essentially given up the #2 pick, so neither club can be blamed for that.

By a bunch of twist of fates, we were able to take Daniel Wells with the number 2 draft pick. We didn't trade Carey for Wells because at the time we expected not to be able to pick him up. We were lucky because Carlton were stupid.

And who's to say that even if they'd had the number 2 pick that the Crows would have even selected Wells anyway? They might have wanted a KPP or a ruck etc more.

I think the Crows paid too highly for Carey because I thought they basically had us over a barrel as we had to get rid of him.

[wellsythegr8]

And who's to say that even if they'd had the number 2 pick that the Crows would have even selected Wells anyway? They might have wanted a KPP or a ruck etc more.

I think the Crows paid too highly for Carey because I thought they basically had us over a barrel as we had to get rid of him.

There was always a good chance that Carlton would be stripped of their draft picks but Adelaide just had to take a risk.

BTW, Wells would have definetely been taken by Adelaide regardless of whether or not they needed a KPP. He and Goddard (supposedly) were a class above the rest of the draftees.

[No 1 Draft Pick]

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this...

The Crows traded pick 4 to us for Wayne Carey. Pick 4 came from Richmond as part of the Kane Johnson trade. Now being an Adelaidean I know that Johnson was going that he'd made clear and he wanted to go to Richmond so that trade was being done regardless of whether Carey came or not.

Pick 4 only became pick 2 after Carlton got themselves booted out of the draft, which happened after trade week. Daniel Wells was expected to go at number 2ish so it was always thought he'd end up at Carlton. Neither Richmond or Adelaide realised or could realise at the time that they had essentially given up the #2 pick, so neither club can be blamed for that.

By a bunch of twist of fates, we were able to take Daniel Wells with the number 2 draft pick. We didn't trade Carey for Wells because at the time we expected not to be able to pick him up. We were lucky because Carlton were stupid.

And who's to say that even if they'd had the number 2 pick that the Crows would have even selected Wells anyway? They might have wanted a KPP or a ruck etc more.

I think the Crows paid too highly for Carey because I thought they basically had us over a barrel as we had to get rid of him.


The top few paragraphs look pretty spot on

Goddard and Wells were the 2 standout players in this draft (similar to this year where there was apparently 5 standouts). So assuming the Crows went for the best player available (and not needs) then Wells would have, by fate, ended up at West Lakes. But as you mentioned RooBunny the Crows (and Tigers) werent to know that and both stated they wouldnt have done the deal if they knew it was draft pick 2

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. IF Carey had been half the player he was in the 90's and we had a decent injury run in 2003 we could well have 'stolen' another flag by getting Carey. After we won the Wizard Cup in 2003 with Carey showing promising signs in the final, bookmakers had Crows as premiership favourites at this stage. So market intelligence rated us a big chance but alas it wasnt to be.....

Obviously in hindsight with Careys relative underperformance and the fact Wells would have landed here it looks like a bad deal. But at the time it was warranted IMHO

[crowsarethebest]

The top few paragraphs look pretty spot on

Goddard and Wells were the 2 standout players in this draft (similar to this year where there was apparently 5 standouts). So assuming the Crows went for the best player available (and not needs) then Wells would have, by fate, ended up at West Lakes. But as you mentioned RooBunny the Crows (and Tigers) werent to know that and both stated they wouldnt have done the deal if they knew it was draft pick 2

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. IF Carey had been half the player he was in the 90's and we had a decent injury run in 2003 we could well have 'stolen' another flag by getting Carey. After we won the Wizard Cup in 2003 with Carey showing promising signs in the final, bookmakers had Crows as premiership favourites at this stage. So market intelligence rated us a big chance but alas it wasnt to be.....

Obviously in hindsight with Careys relative underperformance and the fact Wells would have landed here it looks like a bad deal. But at the time it was warranted IMHO
Number 1 draft pick your toally right. You cannot predict what will happen in the future. North melbourne were lucky to have pick two. We traded them pick 4 but then carlton got stripped of their picks. Build a bridge and get over it people.

[Wayne's-World]

Number 1 draft pick your toally right. You cannot predict what will happen in the future. North melbourne were lucky to have picktwo. We traded them pick 4 but then carlton got stripped of their picks. Build a bridge and get over it people.
Yes I think this one has been done to death
Bad deal on Carey, should have got Wells, can understand rationale in taking Carey, but people it's ancient history and well and truly time to move on.
;)

[Crow-mosone]

No Adelaide fans, an injury plagued player on the verge of retirement was definately a rip-off as the exciting Wells will be carving it up making the club look like fools for years.

you'd know all about looking like a fool.

have you stopped sulking since your own board didn't rate you as a poster?

[BulldogMike]

you'd know all about looking like a fool.

have you stopped sulking since your own board didn't rate you as a poster?

We're all about the club and not up each others **** like the posters on this board.

[lozstar]

We're all about the club and not up each others **** like the posters on this board.******** off.

[Stiffy_18]

We're all about the club and not up each others **** like the posters on this board.
Anyone know a number of a good pest control company?????? :rolleyes:

[Rave Slave]

FFS TALK ABOUT DONE TO DEATH

Allow me to pose this to all the people who question Adelaide's reasoning behind the Carey deal.

If you have the chance to take a superstar of the game and one of the greatest players of all time on the OFF chance that he may rekindle his old form and help you seal the premiership in style would you take it? or would you simply rather draft a youngster, develop them, and hope that you are a chance for a flag in 5 years time when they truly come into their own (if they ever do)?

Wayne Carey is regarded as one of, if not THE greatest forward the game has ever had. Towards the end of his career with the Roos niggling injuries held him back. Carey had a years break which gave him time to recover from some of those injuries and rest his dodgy shoulders, he lost weight and he bulked up further. The fact was he looked the goods and 15 of the 16 clubs were clamouring to get the chance to sit down and talk with him on the off chance he would join their club.

If Wayne Carey had kicked 80 goals both seasons and the crows had won a flag then no one would be questioning this, the fact is Carey didn't cost us a flag and Wells wouldn't have won us one either. We relied to heavily on aging bodies without blooding fresh youth which brought about our demise from the premiership race. Carey broke down because his body wasn't up to it, that's a shame. Wells still hasn't stamped himself as an absolute superstar of the game yet (though i don't doubt he will) so just let it die already. If this is the worst trade the crows ever make in their history then i shall die a happy man.

As for comparing Wells to Carey it reminds me very much of another comparison:

Apples and Oranges

Hindsight truly is a beautiful thing - if we knew everything that was going to happen down the track in footy we would win the flag every year - we would draft the best youngsters early, trade for the best rejuvenated players, pick up the best smokies in the draft, blood youngsters at exactly the right time and we would steer clear of the Angwin's of the world.

No one knows whats around the corner in football terms however and that's what makes this game so great- the surprises it throws up.

Worry about your footy club and we'll worry about ours.

One last question - if you could've stopped the whole Carey- Stevens debacle and kept Wayne at your club (the very SAME Wayne that played for the AFC) would you?

I guarantee you would.

[Cuneyt]

FFS TALK ABOUT DONE TO DEATH

Allow me to pose this to all the people who question Adelaide's reasoning behind the Carey deal.

If you have the chance to take a superstar of the game and one of the greatest players of all time on the OFF chance that he may rekindle his old form and help you seal the premiership in style would you take it? or would you simply rather draft a youngster, develop them, and hope that you are a chance for a flag in 5 years time when they truly come into their own (if they ever do)?

Wayne Carey is regarded as one of, if not THE greatest forward the game has ever had. Towards the end of his career with the Roos niggling injuries held him back. Carey had a years break which gave him time to recover from some of those injuries and rest his dodgy shoulders, he lost weight and he bulked up further. The fact was he looked the goods and 15 of the 16 clubs were clamouring to get the chance to sit down and talk with him on the off chance he would join their club.

If Wayne Carey had kicked 80 goals both seasons and the crows had won a flag then no one would be questioning this, the fact is Carey didn't cost us a flag and Wells wouldn't have won us one either. We relied to heavily on aging bodies without blooding fresh youth which brought about our demise from the premiership race. Carey broke down because his body wasn't up to it, that's a shame. Wells still hasn't stamped himself as an absolute superstar of the game yet (though i don't doubt he will) so just let it die already. If this is the worst trade the crows ever make in their history then i shall die a happy man.

As for comparing Wells to Carey it reminds me very much of another comparison:

Apples and Oranges

Hindsight truly is a beautiful thing - if we knew everything that was going to happen down the track in footy we would win the flag every year - we would draft the best youngsters early, trade for the best rejuvenated players, pick up the best smokies in the draft, blood youngsters at exactly the right time and we would steer clear of the Angwin's of the world.

No one knows whats around the corner in football terms however and that's what makes this game so great- the surprises it throws up.

Worry about your footy club and we'll worry about ours.

One last question - if you could've stopped the whole Carey- Stevens debacle and kept Wayne at your club (the very SAME Wayne that played for the AFC) would you?

I guarantee you would.

Bingo.

[Crow-mosone]

We're all about the club and not up each others **** like the posters on this board.

or maybe just no one rates you more than anything found on the bottom of their shoe.

for anyone who likes a laugh:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147186

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147628

[outback jack]

Its nice to say if he kicked 80 goals............ but he didnt and he wasnt in that kind of form before the year he had out either, so i dont think that was expected. I think he still could have been more valuable but he was handled very badly by the club. Why doesnt anyone ask why he lost so much weight in one crows preseason??? Also, we had a dumb coach who never left him in any space, the forward line was always so crowded. In saying that i doubt any other team who had given up what we did, and that cant be justified, especially with the quality of youngsters we had coming through. Did anyone have a long-term view when they did this?? And most ppl here should stop trying to defend the deal, when you start talking about the ‘experience’ that he gave the youngsters, you know we are on a bad deal. If anything we stifled and almost ended the career of a CHF for the next seven yrs in Perrie.

[Markthirtytwo]

Its nice to say if he kicked 80 goals............ but he didnt and he wasnt in that kind of form before the year he had out either, so i dont think that was expected. I think he still could have been more valuable but he was handled very badly by the club. Why doesnt anyone ask why he lost so much weight in one crows preseason??? Also, we had a dumb coach who never left him in any space, the forward line was always so crowded. In saying that i doubt any other team who had given up what we did, and that cant be justified, especially with the quality of youngsters we had coming through. Did anyone have a long-term view when they did this?? And most ppl here should stop trying to defend the deal, when you start talking about the ‘experience’ that he gave the youngsters, you know we are on a bad deal. If anything we stifled and almost ended the career of a CHF for the next seven yrs in Perrie.

Perrie wasnt stiffled Jackie, he was never going to be any better than he is now. I surprised he is still on our list.
My opionion will still be Cary deal was the best for the time.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but you cant change the past.

[wellsythegr8]

One last question - if you could've stopped the whole Carey- Stevens debacle and kept Wayne at your club (the very SAME Wayne that played for the AFC) would you?

I guarantee you would.

Yes! I definitely would have. Although i am still quite content will Wellsy.

[macca23]

My opionion will still be Cary deal was the best for the time.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but you cant change the past.

On the surface, it may appear to be the best deal for the time, apart from the fact that if a 12 year old kid was handling the trade on our behalf they wouldn't have given that much away for a 32 year old with crook shoulders who couldn't mark above his head, and wasn't wanted by his club.

I think nearly all of us at the time could (incorrectly) see Carey playing at FF for us and becoming dominant as a leading FF in the mould of Alistair Lynch, which helped us to ignore all the short-comings that the majority of people outside the AFC and its supporters could see.

However, as Stiffy18 can also confirm, it wasn't the best deal available at that time, as we have since discovered.

If Adelaide had pursued Matthew Pavlich with the same vigor that they pursued Carey at the end of 2002, then he would be wearing the Crows tri-colours instead of those of Freo. He was wanting to come home, but Adelaide showed barely a sniff of interest in him, with their focus being totally on Carey.

They didn't and he is now contracted to Freo for another 2 years.

Just for interest's sakes, Pavlich went within the arse hair of a gnat of seeking a trade to Port (who threw everything but the kitchen sink at him) before signing his current contract with Freo.

Pavlich was a ten year proposition, not a 2 year proposition, and the one that the Crows should have pursued.

I wonder who Pavlich will play for in 2007 when he comes home - and my information is that he will - Adelaide or Port??

Or will we be too busy luring Alistair Lynch out of retirement?? ;) :o

[Woodson]

You cannot predict what will happen in the future. North Melbourne were lucky to have pick two. We traded them pick 4 but then carlton got stripped of their picks. Build a bridge and get over it people.

Yup. Getting a Night Premiership out of Carey is something of a minor consulation at least. I enjoyed watching him play and help 'deny' Buckley holding up any Silverware. :D Carlton are the BIG LOSERS not Adelaide.

[Stiffy_18]

On the surface, it may appear to be the best deal for the time, apart from the fact that if a 12 year old kid was handling the trade on our behalf they wouldn't have given that much away for a 32 year old with crook shoulders who couldn't mark above his head, and wasn't wanted by his club.

I think nearly all of us at the time could (incorrectly) see Carey playing at FF for us and becoming dominant as a leading FF in the mould of Alistair Lynch, which helped us to ignore all the short-comings that the majority of people outside the AFC and its supporters could see.

However, as Stiffy18 can also confirm, it wasn't the best deal available at that time, as we have since discovered.

If Adelaide had pursued Matthew Pavlich with the same vigor that they pursued Carey at the end of 2002, then he would be wearing the Crows tri-colours instead of those of Freo. He was wanting to come home, but Adelaide showed barely a sniff of interest in him, with their focus being totally on Carey.

They didn't and he is now contracted to Freo for another 2 years.

Just for interest's sakes, Pavlich went within the arse hair of a gnat of seeking a trade to Port (who threw everything but the kitchen sink at him) before signing his current contract with Freo.

Pavlich was a ten year proposition, not a 2 year proposition, and the one that the Crows should have pursued.

I wonder who Pavlich will play for in 2007 when he comes home - and my information is that he will - Adelaide or Port??

Or will we be too busy luring Alistair Lynch out of retirement?? ;) :o
With our ******** poor showing in trying to get him in the first place I am almost certain he will end up at Port.

One of the decisions that will cost this club for years to come. Pavlich was 21 at the time and was ready to burst on the scene. I don't know about you but I think we sure as hell would have got at least the same out of Pavlich as we did out of Carey. Disturbing thing is that we would have got Pavlich for the same money and trade value as Carey.

One of the most bizzare decisions of all time.

I have expressed my stance on the Carey trade a lot of times in the past and I will do it for the last time. Getting Carey was not a mistake but giving up what we did for him was and I felt like that as soon as I heard what the trade was.

Pick 4 and pick 20 (2 and 18 eventually) gets you Pavlich at the time.

[Crow-mosone]

If Adelaide had pursued Matthew Pavlich with the same vigor that they pursued Carey at the end of 2002, then he would be wearing the Crows tri-colours instead of those of Freo. He was wanting to come home, but Adelaide showed barely a sniff of interest in him, with their focus being totally on Carey.

They didn't and he is now contracted to Freo for another 2 years.



bit of wives tales though isn't it? funny how a player implies something after the event. we have no idea what the state of play was with pavlich.

given his form in recent years, can't say we'd have been that much better off.

[macca23]

bit of wives tales though isn't it? funny how a player implies something after the event. we have no idea what the state of play was with pavlich.

given his form in recent years, can't say we'd have been that much better off.

No, not a bit of an old wives tale, unless his direct family member is lying, which I very much doubt knowing the character of the individual.

Also it wasn't an implication, it was a direct statement.

Also the family member puts the decline in his recent form down to Connolly's attempts to turn him into a mid-fielder rather than the KPP he always has been.

Ironically CHF is Pavlich's personally preferred position - our perennial problem position.

How's that last sentence for over-illiteration with the letter P?? ;) :D

[lozstar]

No, not a bit of an old wives tale, unless his direct family member is lying, which I very much doubt knowing the character of the individual.

Also it wasn't an implication, it was a direct statement.

Also the family member puts the decline in his recent form down to Connolly's attempts to turn him into a mid-fielder rather than the KPP he always has been.

Ironically CHF is Pavlich's personally preferred position - our perennial problem position.

How's that last sentence for over-illiteration with the letter P?? you have way too many connections for your own good, macca ;) :p

[- PC -]

Ironically CHF is Pavlich's personally preferred position - our perennial problem position.

How's that last sentence for over-illiteration with the letter P?? ;) :D

Perfectly put proposal

[outback jack]

On the surface, it may appear to be the best deal for the time, apart from the fact that if a 12 year old kid was handling the trade on our behalf they wouldn't have given that much away for a 32 year old with crook shoulders who couldn't mark above his head, and wasn't wanted by his club.

I think nearly all of us at the time could (incorrectly) see Carey playing at FF for us and becoming dominant as a leading FF in the mould of Alistair Lynch, which helped us to ignore all the short-comings that the majority of people outside the AFC and its supporters could see.

However, as Stiffy18 can also confirm, it wasn't the best deal available at that time, as we have since discovered.

If Adelaide had pursued Matthew Pavlich with the same vigor that they pursued Carey at the end of 2002, then he would be wearing the Crows tri-colours instead of those of Freo. He was wanting to come home, but Adelaide showed barely a sniff of interest in him, with their focus being totally on Carey.

They didn't and he is now contracted to Freo for another 2 years.

Just for interest's sakes, Pavlich went within the arse hair of a gnat of seeking a trade to Port (who threw everything but the kitchen sink at him) before signing his current contract with Freo.

Pavlich was a ten year proposition, not a 2 year proposition, and the one that the Crows should have pursued.

I wonder who Pavlich will play for in 2007 when he comes home - and my information is that he will - Adelaide or Port??

Or will we be too busy luring Alistair Lynch out of retirement?? ;) :o


yep that is soooo right. i doubt he'll come home home though, especially if freo do well. They'll make him captain, hes got a WA girlfriend so you can see that unless hes really unhappy i think he'll stay there. What was wrong with going for both anyway?????? Would hav had no problem with giving up pick 4 for pav and then see what the kangaroos want to do for carey, and deal still would have been done i would have thought

[macca23]

yep that is soooo right. i doubt he'll come home home though, especially if freo do well. They'll make him captain, hes got a WA girlfriend so you can see that unless hes really unhappy i think he'll stay there. What was wrong with going for both anyway?????? Would hav had no problem with giving up pick 4 for pav and then see what the kangaroos want to do for carey, and deal still would have been done i would have thought

Jack, at this stage he's saying that he will come home at the end of 2006, and she's saying that she's prepared to come with him.

Of course the variables in this are 1) That's exactly what happens 2) The relationship breaks up and he then becomes a certainty to come home 3) The relationhip becomes permanent and she won't come to Adelaide - so he stays at Freo.

Adelaide should be working on Pavlich in the background NOW, so that in 21 months time he WILL come home with only Adelaide in mind, because that's what I suspect Port will be doing.

As for your other comments that we should have gone for both and reduce what was on offer for Carey - I totally agree. As you say, the Carey deal would still probably have been done, but for less.

[outback jack]

Jack, at this stage he's saying that he will come home at the end of 2006, and she's saying that she's prepared to come with him.

Of course the variables in this are 1) That's exactly what happens 2) The relationship breaks up and he then becomes a certainty to come home 3) The relationhip becomes permanent and she won't come to Adelaide - so he stays at Freo.

Adelaide should be working on Pavlich in the background NOW, so that in 21 months time he WILL come home with only Adelaide in mind, because that's what I suspect Port will be doing.

As for your other comments that we should have gone for both and reduce what was on offer for Carey - I totally agree. As you say, the Carey deal would still probably have been done, but for less.


yep definitely missed out on a good opportunity, the guy was basically screaming out to come home, going on radio and everything, and we had the right kind of compensation too. U'd think his price will be much higher come 2007, especially if he takes off at CHF.

I think we had the upper hand to get pav then, but port will come 2007. The club should be making public their interest in him, notice how port with the carr deal immediately said we want schammer or pavlich, just to show that they are interested, they knew that they wouldn't get them.

whatever happens dont want to see him at port, rather see him stay at freo

[Crow-mosone]

No, not a bit of an old wives tale, unless his direct family member is lying, which I very much doubt knowing the character of the individual.

Also it wasn't an implication, it was a direct statement.

Also the family member puts the decline in his recent form down to Connolly's attempts to turn him into a mid-fielder rather than the KPP he always has been.

Ironically CHF is Pavlich's personally preferred position - our perennial problem position.

How's that last sentence for over-illiteration with the letter P?? ;) :D

sorry Macca,
whilst I am not denying said family member is spreading such statements. I have to say, I do not believe for one minute Pavlich approached the crows to come home and we refused the offer.

which leaves us with the "if they asked me" stuff - a little too pie in the sky for me.

[Crow-mosone]

Jack, at this stage he's saying that he will come home at the end of 2006,

Macca,
I think this fails the sanity check, it just doesn't make sense.

end of 2006 - aide from being 2 seasons away, what is that, end of contract?

why would he wait until the end of his contract? It's not going to help get him back home, after all, much like Josh Carr and Stinga with such a narrow list of clubs you want to go, you can only get home through trade. At which point, why do you need to wait 2 seasons before demanding a trade.

It also doesn't make sense for a player to declare what will happen in 2 seasons time, so many things can happen professionally in that time.

What does make sense to me, intuitively, is that he has said that 2006 might be enough, he figures that might be about the time to think about coming home. However, that is a long way from declaring he is coming home, that suggests he is relatively happy where he is, but that seems a milestone where he might consider it.

[macca23]

sorry Macca,
whilst I am not denying said family member is spreading such statements. I have to say, I do not believe for one minute Pavlich approached the crows to come home and we refused the offer.

which leaves us with the "if they asked me" stuff - a little too pie in the sky for me.

Of course Pavlich didn't approach the Crows - he wasn't going to publicly hawk himself around. But he would like to have come home (the club was aware of that) and the family member said that he would have if the club had shown strong interest. Unfortunately, they were so besotted with the Carey deal, they showed "very little interest" in Pavlich - ad verbatim as I was told.

As for your later comment about why wouldn't he come home now rather than wait until the end of 2006, if you knew the Pavlich family, you would know that they are people of rare integrity, and no way would Matthew bust the commitment of a contract. Yes, the end of 2006 is the end of his contract.

As for all the waffle about the sanity check, of course things can change dramatically over a period of 21 months. The very fact that there is a WA girlfriend involved is just one of the many variables in the scene, and I have posted some of those variables. One of those variables is that he may not come home.

However, whether it happens or not, it is Matthew's current plan to come home at the end of the 2006 season.

I hope that satisfies all of your qualifications.

[SpringChoke]

I was all for getting Wayne Carey at the time, but not at the expense of giving up picks 2 and 18 (originally 4 and 20). My thoughts at the time,and nothing has changed that view, was that pick 18 was a fair trade for a 32 year old with crook shoulders that had been disowned by the club.

Hindsight says just how bad that deal actually was. Wells is going to be a top-liner, and could have been a Crow.

From Adelaide's point of view, a dumb, dumb trade.

What he said.

[SpringChoke]

Jack, at this stage he's saying that he will come home at the end of 2006, and she's saying that she's prepared to come with him.

Of course the variables in this are 1) That's exactly what happens 2) The relationship breaks up and he then becomes a certainty to come home 3) The relationhip becomes permanent and she won't come to Adelaide - so he stays at Freo.

Adelaide should be working on Pavlich in the background NOW, so that in 21 months time he WILL come home with only Adelaide in mind, because that's what I suspect Port will be doing.

As for your other comments that we should have gone for both and reduce what was on offer for Carey - I totally agree. As you say, the Carey deal would still probably have been done, but for less.


I would be really suprised if Port could fit Pav in their salary cap.

[blighty]

Many on this board seem to think that it's a given Fremantle will be final 8 certainities...with Pavlich playing CHF.....& the draft/trading off season.
I'd sugggest they are going no where...gimmick mad coach, poor game plan, small forward line,& a lack of real hardness at the contest.
My simple point is this...if they couldn't take the next step last season in a year when the traditionally strong clubs Colllingwod, Hawthorn & Adelaide were not in contention...why do we expect them to be finalists?
If they fail again;doesn't that make Pavlich's return home all the more likely?
I seem to recall many of there supporters turning on him towards the end of the season, with Connolly having to defend him.
Fantasia & co may be racking up the frequent flyers this season what with Waters Butler, & Pavlich all so called wanting to come home!!!!

[No 1 Draft Pick]

Many on this board seem to think that it's a given Fremantle will be final 8 certainities...with Pavlich playing CHF.....& the draft/trading off season.
I'd sugggest they are going no where...gimmick mad coach, poor game plan, small forward line,& a lack of real hardness at the contest.
My simple point is this...if they couldn't take the next step last season in a year when the traditionally strong clubs Colllingwod, Hawthorn & Adelaide were not in contention...why do we expect them to be finalists?
If they fail again;doesn't that make Pavlich's return home all the more likely?
I seem to recall many of there supporters turning on him towards the end of the season, with Connolly having to defend him.
Fantasia & co may be racking up the frequent flyers this season what with Waters Butler, & Pavlich all so called wanting to come home!!!!

I am one that thinks they will make the 8. By general consensus they had a bad year in 2004 and still only missed the 8 by one game. They have added more AFL ready players than any other team - including some classy types - Carr, Black (and Schofield to a lesser extent). Top 4-5 midfield in the league now IMO. With a big home ground advantage I think they will bounce back as its a big year for them and the pressure will certainly be on.

If they make the 8 along with the 'sure-things' like Power, Lions, Saints, Cats and Eagles it certainly doesnt leave many remaining positions in the 8 for the Crows to fight for (along with Dons, Swans, Dees etc)

[drakeyv2]

As for your other comments that we should have gone for both and reduce what was on offer for Carey - I totally agree. As you say, the Carey deal would still probably have been done, but for less.

The biggest critisism I have ever had about Steven Trigg was his handling of Wayne Carey's trade. He came out and said we would do what ever it took to get Carey here. From that moment on we were doomed to pay over the odds for him.

I sure as hell wouldn't want Steven Trigg to negotiate for me the next time I buy a used car!

[SpringChoke]

I am one that thinks they will make the 8. By general consensus they had a bad year in 2004 and still only missed the 8 by one game. They have added more AFL ready players than any other team - including some classy types - Carr, Black (and Schofield to a lesser extent). Top 4-5 midfield in the league now IMO. With a big home ground advantage I think they will bounce back as its a big year for them and the pressure will certainly be on.

If they make the 8 along with the 'sure-things' like Power, Lions, Saints, Cats and Eagles it certainly doesnt leave many remaining positions in the 8 for the Crows to fight for (along with Dons, Swans, Dees etc)

If they play Pav ( incredible waste in the midfield ) as a KPP forward and his shoulders hold up, they will be top 6. If not, Connelly should be shown the door.

[Crow-mosone]

Of course Pavlich didn't approach the Crows - he wasn't going to publicly hawk himself around. But he would like to have come home (the club was aware of that) and the family member said that he would have if the club had shown strong interest. Unfortunately, they were so besotted with the Carey deal, they showed "very little interest" in Pavlich - ad verbatim as I was told.

As for your later comment about why wouldn't he come home now rather than wait until the end of 2006, if you knew the Pavlich family, you would know that they are people of rare integrity, and no way would Matthew bust the commitment of a contract. Yes, the end of 2006 is the end of his contract.

As for all the waffle about the sanity check, of course things can change dramatically over a period of 21 months. The very fact that there is a WA girlfriend involved is just one of the many variables in the scene, and I have posted some of those variables. One of those variables is that he may not come home.

However, whether it happens or not, it is Matthew's current plan to come home at the end of the 2006 season.

I hope that satisfies all of your qualifications.

no worries, no point getting too wound up over this. either way, we'll have to wait and see.
mind you I cannot see how he will be able to perform for fremantle football club, if he has already made up his mind that his future lay elsewhere.

[outback jack]

The biggest critisism I have ever had about Steven Trigg was his handling of Wayne Carey's trade. He came out and said we would do what ever it took to get Carey here. From that moment on we were doomed to pay over the odds for him.

I sure as hell wouldn't want Steven Trigg to negotiate for me the next time I buy a used car!


what about the 'process' that was in place to appoint the next coach that was another good one. I think we need someone with a better undestandinng of how things work in there, he seems a little 'stupid' with some of the things that he says, i'm not sure hes all there at times. We need someone who is media smart, which triggy aint, and has his head screwed on to make the right decisions for the club.

[outback jack]

If they play Pav ( incredible waste in the midfield ) as a KPP forward and his shoulders hold up, they will be top 6. If not, Connelly should be shown the door.


I dont think he was a waste, i dont think he'll be a star at CHF. His shoulders wouldnt be any prob, shoulder recons are much better more recently than they used to be, back in the carey days. He still has the movement in his shoulders like most other players anyway.

Freo have lots of foward options i'd put polak there and just leave him there, hes a great mark, better than pav. Pav still should be played in the midfield, but just has to push foward more to isolate his height difference with his opponent. But if pav was at the crows though u'd have to put him straight to CHF cause we have no other classy fowards. I reckon they will be 6th their list looks good, but i think carr is overrated and black and schofield are more top up players than anything.