Rank the Players for 2005

[Kane McGoodwin]

In the last 2 years we have gone through the process where we ranked the squad in terms of importance to the team. Would be interested to see how everyone ranks the players for 2005.

For those who are interested, the link & previous 2 years' rankings:

2004 Ranking (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99906&page=1)

Name 04 Rank 03 Rank +/- 04 Ave
McLeod 1 1 0 1.6
Roo 1 2 1 1.6
Goodwin 3 4 1 5.1
Edwards 4 7 3 6.4
Hart 5 6 1 6.6
Carey 6 5 -1 7.0
Stevo M 7 3 -4 7.8
Burton 8 17 9 7.9
Johncock 9 18 9 9.1
Welsh 10 13 3 9.6
McGregor 11 19 8 10.1
Biglands 12 8 -4 10.8
Clarke 13 12 -1 13.6
Perrie 13 32 19 13.6
Stinger 15 9 -6 14.8
Smart 16 11 -5 15.0
Bassett 17 15 -2 16.8
Bode 18 14 -4 19.5
Shirley 18 n/a n/a 19.5
Massie 20 23 3 19.8
Reilly 21 29 8 20.4
Ladhams 22 16 -6 21.5
Schuey 23 30 7 22.0
Torney 24 21 -3 22.3
Begley 25 n/a n/a 26.1
Burns 26 20 -6 29.3
Hudson 27 n/a n/a 29.9
Rutten 27 24 -3 29.9
Watts 29 n/a n/a 30.0
Stevo S 30 n/a n/a 30.5
Doughty 31 22 -9 30.9
Mattner 32 27 -5 31.8
Skipppy 32 n/a n/a 31.8
Hentsh. 34 28 -6 32.0
Krueger 35 n/a n/a 33.1
Gags 36 26 -10 33.8
Jericho 37 n/a n/a 34.1
Bock 38 33 -5 35.8



Will post mine later.

[Kane McGoodwin]

1. Ricciuto (2)
2. McLeod (1)
3. McGregor (8)
4. Goodwin (4)
5. Edwards (9)
6. Welsh (10)
7. Hentschel (35!)
8. Hart (5)
9. Johncock (12)
10. Burton (6)
11. Clarke (18)
12. Stevens M (3)
13. Reilly (19)
14. Rutten (34)
15. Perrie (14)
16. Bassett (15)
17. Thompson (n/a)
18. Shirley (20)
19. Jericho (36)
20. Begley (26)
21. Hudson (24)
22. Biglands (11)
23. Torney (25)
24. Doughty (33)
25. Krueger (30)
26. Mattner (32)
27. Schuback (23)
28. Watts (31)
29. Massie (21)
30. Smith (n/a)
31. Bode (22)
32. Skipworth (29)
33. Stevens S (27)
34. Van Berlo (n/a)
35. Gibson (n/a)
36. Ladhams (16)
37. Bock (38)
38. Meeson (n/a)
39. Maric (n/a)
40. Knights (n/a)

M Stevens & Hart would be ranked higher, if not for their injury concerns.

I have ranked our new draftees low, as they are unlikely to play many games (even though they have more ability than higher ranked players).

[DaveW]

1. Mark Ricciuto (1)
2. Andrew McLeod (2)
3. Tyson Edwards (4)
4. Simon Goodwin (3)
5. Ken McGregor (7)
6. Brett Burton (5)
7. Ben Hart (6)
8. Scott Welsh (13)
9. Matthew Clarke (9)
10. Rhett Biglands (8)
11. Nathan Bassett (12)
12. Graham Johncock (10)
13. Trent Hentschell (with a bullet, 30)
14. Ben Rutten (with a bullett, 29)

from here it gets hard...

15. Scott Thompson
16. Brent Reilly (25)
17. Ian Perrie (21)
18. Matthew Bode (19)
19. Jason Torney (14)
20. Kris Massie (16)
21. Luke Jericho (=35)
22. Martin Mattner (34)
23. Michael Doughty (28)
24. Mark Stevens (15)
25. James Begley (26)
26. Chris Ladhams (18)
27. Hayden Skipworth (33)
28. Ben Hudson (31)
29. Scott Stevens (24)
30. Robert Shirley (22)
31. Nathan Bock (=35)
32. Jacob Schuback (32)
33. Fergus Watts (=35)
34-40. Gibson/Knights/Krueger (=35)/Maric/Meesen/Smith/Van Berlo

I really don't know where to rank Stevens. He's not much value to us when he's off the field for months at a time.

[crows98]

This is how I rank the 2005 Adelaide crows squad and their importance to the teams success


1) Mark Ricciuto
2) Andrew McLeod
3) Mark Stevens
4) Kenny Macgregor
5) Simon Goodwin
6) Tyson Edwards
7) Ben Hart
8) Brett Burton
9) Graham Johncock
10) Brent Reilly
11) Trent Hentschel
12) Mathew Clark
13) Scott Welsh
14) Mathew Bode
15) Ben Rutten
16) Rhett Biglands
17) Ian Perrie
18) Scott Thompson
19) Jason Torney
20) Kris Massie
21) Nathan Bassett
22) Chris Ladhams
23) Fergus Watts
24) James Begley
25) Luke Jericho
26) Martie Mattner
27) Robert Shirley
28) Jacob Schuback
29) Hayden Skipworth
30) Michael Doughty
31) Nathan Bock
32) Ben Hudson
33) Josh Krueger
34) Mathew Smith
35) Scott Stevens
36) Chad Gibson
37) Nathan Van Berlo
38) Will Meeson
39) Ivan Maric
40) Chris Knights

[crows98]

To be successful Mark Stevens has to be fully fit and in the Adelaide crows top 3 players of importance that’s why I ranked him so high.

[noddy]

My ratings which start with the usual are =


1. Ricciuto
2. McLeod
3. Goodwin
4. Edwards
5. Johncock
6. McGregor
7. Hart
8. Biglands
9. Hentschel
10. Welsh
11. Burton
12. Thompson
13. Reilly
14. Bassett
15. M Stevens
16. Ben Rutten
17. Matthew Clarke
18. Torney
19. Bode
20. Begley
21. Mattner
22. Perrie
23. Shirley
24. Doughty
25. Massie
26. Jericho
27. Schuback
28. Watts
29. Hudson
30. Ladhams
31. Skipworth
32. Krueger
33. Stevens S
34. Smith
35. Bock

Have probobly rated Biglands higher than he deserves but if he is ever going to make a statement then this year is it.

Can't really rate the newcomers
36. Van Berlo
37. Gibson
38. Meeson
39. Maric
40. Knights

[macca23]

2005 Player 2004

1 Ricciuto 2
2 McLeod 1
3 McGregor 6
4 Goodwin 4
5 Edwards 9
6 Hentschel 26
7 Burton 10
8 Hart 5
9 Welsh 14
10 Johncock 12
11 Clarke 11
12 Perrie 7
13 Bassett 15
14 Reilly 19
15 Biglands 8
16 Begley 22
17 Rutten 35
18 Thompson N/A
19 Bode 16
20 Torney 23
21 Doughty 30
22 Jericho 37
23 StevensM 18
24 Shirley 21
25 Mattner 36
26 Massie 20
27 Hudson 32
28 Bock 34
29 Watts 28
30 Ladhams 25
31 Stevens 27
32 Skipworth 33
33 Krueger 31
34 Schuback 24
35 Meeson N/A
36 Van Berlo N/A
37 Knights N/A
38 Gibson N/A
39 Maric N/A
40 Smith N/A

Impossible to put M Stevens in the best 22 on his past injury record.

[Blood]

yeh Stevens would have to be ranked near the bottom on 2004 as he barely played and wasnt too flash when he did unfortunately

[AngelEyes]

I concur with macca23's list however I'd place Roo and macca in a vice versa positions. I have a strange feeling that this is going to be McLeods year...it's been building up for two years now, he has to give it his all this year.

[Mad Dog]

A very interesting exercise !! I really tried to stay focused on the question because it would be very easy to get lost in just ranking our best players. I have asked the question...."how will it affect our team if this player has a blinder - or conversly - has a shocker?".......and ....."how much are we relying on this player for team success??".

That is why for instance I have Rutten very high....not because he is in the top 10 skilled players at the club....but because if he can hold down FB....we can go a very long way to having a settled defence......and I've ranked BirdBrain very high - because if he can play up forward and have a great year - he has enough natural talent to kick 60 or 70 goals...and this will go a long way to getting us into the finals.......so ....I just thought I'd try and add context to my thinking before I get nailed up !!!!! :p

(btw - after 18 or 19.....it's a fairly even field)

1 Ricciuto (2)
2 McLeod (1)
3 Goodwin (4)
4 Edwards (9)
5 Hart (5)
6 Burton (6)
7 Clarke (18)
8 Stevens M (3)
9 McGregor (8)
10 Rutten (34)
11 Reilly (19)
12 Hentschel (35)
13 Johncock (12)
14 Biglands (11)
15 Bassett (15)
16 Welsh (10)
17 Thompson (n/a)
18 Perrie (14)
19 Begley (26)
20 Torney (25)
21 Hudson (24)
22 Mattner (32)
23 Bode (22)
24 Doughty (33)
25 Shirley (20)
26 Jericho (36)
27 Bock (38)
28 Massie (21)
29 Skipworth (29)
30 Ladhams (16)
31 Stevens S (27)
32 Watts (31)
33 Krueger (30)
34 Schuback (23)
35 Van Berlo (n/a)
36 Meeson (n/a)
37 Maric (n/a)
38 Knights (n/a)
39 Gibson (n/a)
40 Smith (n/a)

[Mad Dog]

yeh Stevens would have to be ranked near the bottom on 2004 as he barely played and wasnt too flash when he did unfortunately
Hi Blood - welcome..... :)

..isn't this an exercise in looking forward to 2005 and assessing the players potential value to the team ??....not assessing on 2004 ???

[LBJ23]

My top ten is

1. Ruccuito
2. McLeod
3. Hart
4. Edwards
5. Goodwin
6. McGregor
7. M.Stevens
8. Hentschel
9. Rutten
10. Welsh
very close....Johncock,Thompson & Reilly.

These are the guys who i think will be our best players for 2005.

[Dogga]

1. Ricciuto
2. McLeod
3. Edwards
4. McGregor
5. Goodwin
6. Welsh
7. Hart
8. Thompson
9. Hentschel
10. Reilly
11. Burton
12. Stevens M
13. Johncock
14. Rutten
15. Clarke
16. Perrie
17. Bassett
18. Biglands
19. Begley
20. Torney
21. Shirley
22. Bode
23. Ladhams
24. Mattner
25. Watts
26. Massie
27. Jericho
28. Doughty
29. Skipworth
30. Hudson
31. Schuback
32. Krueger
33. Stevens S
34. Van Berlo
35. Meeson
36. Bock
37. Gibson
38. Maric
39. Knights
40. Smith.

[Port01]

yeh Stevens would have to be ranked near the bottom on 2004 as he barely played and wasnt too flash when he did unfortunately

Yeah and the team didn't do so well. If anything that is evidence that he is important, rather than evidence that he should be ranked lower in importance.

[No 1 Draft Pick]

1. Mc Leod
2. Ricciuto
3. McGregor
4. Stevens, M
5. Hart
6. Goodwin
7. Edwards
8. Welsh
9. Thompson
10. Burton
11. Johncock
12. Rutten
13. Bode
14. Biglands
15. Hentschel
16. Reilly
17. Bassett
18. Clarke
19. Ladhams
20. Perrie
21. Massie
22. Doughty
23. Begley
24. Torney
25. Shirley
26. Bock
27. Jericho
28. Mattner
29. Watts
30. Schuback
31. Skipworth
32. Hudson
33. Stevens S
34. Krueger
35. Smith
36. Van Berlo
37. Knights
38. Meeson
39. Gibson
40. Maric

[drakeyv2]

What exactly are we rating here?

Are we rating them on the form they have shown or their importance in the team.

To explain my question lets compare Edwards with Rutten.

Edwards of course has more runs on the board that Rutten but I would say that a winning full back is more important to the team than a pinch hitting midfielder/small forward/small defender. Therefore I would rate Rutten as more important to the team that Edwards.

[topjars]

Sorry; but Ive only chosen a top ten. After that its really splitting pubics.

If these ten players can beat thier opponents we will win - thats how important they are to the team.

1. Rucciuto
2. McLeod
3. Welsh
4. McGregor
5. M Stevens
6. Johncock
7. Clarke
8. Goodwin
9. Hart
10. Burton


The only player I shed a tear over omitting was Edwards. :o
I put Burton in his place because he is more of a matchwinner if he beats his opponent than Tyson :p I can hear the howls already

[topjars]

What exactly are we rating here?

Are we rating them on the form they have shown or their importance in the team.

To explain my question lets compare Edwards with Rutten.

Edwards of course has more runs on the board that Rutten but I would say that a winning full back is more important to the team than a pinch hitting midfielder/small forward/small defender. Therefore I would rate Rutten as more important to the team that Edwards.

My point exactly!

[Kane McGoodwin]

What exactly are we rating here?

Are we rating them on the form they have shown or their importance in the team.

To explain my question lets compare Edwards with Rutten.

Edwards of course has more runs on the board that Rutten but I would say that a winning full back is more important to the team than a pinch hitting midfielder/small forward/small defender. Therefore I would rate Rutten as more important to the team that Edwards.

Answer in red:

In the last 2 years we have gone through the process where we ranked the squad in terms of importance to the team. Would be interested to see how everyone ranks the players for 2005.

[Kane McGoodwin]

Sorry; but Ive only chosen a top ten. After that its really splitting pubics.

If these ten players can beat thier opponents we will win - thats how important they are to the team.

1. Rucciuto
2. McLeod
3. Welsh
4. McGregor
5. M Stevens
6. Johncock
7. Clarke
8. Goodwin
9. Hart
10. Burton


The only player I shed a tear over omitting was Edwards. :o
I put Burton in his place because he is more of a matchwinner if he beats his opponent than Tyson :p I can hear the howls already
This wasn't about who is our best matchwinner, but moreso who would we miss most if they were injured in terms of the structure of our team.

[Kane McGoodwin]

Consolidated Ranking so far


Rank Player Name Ave KMc DW C98 Nod M23 MD Dog N1DP
1 RICCUITO Mark 1.1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2
2 MCLEOD Andrew 1.9 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 1
3 GOODWIN Simon 4.3 4 4 5 3 4 3 5 6
=4 EDWARDS Tyson 4.6 5 3 6 4 5 4 3 7
=4 MCGREGOR Ken 4.6 3 5 4 6 3 9 4 3
6 HART Ben 6.8 8 7 7 7 8 5 7 5
7 BURTON Brett 8.6 10 6 8 11 7 6 11 10
8 WELSH Scott 9.5 6 8 13 10 9 16 6 8
=9 HENTSCHEL Trent 10.3 7 13 11 9 6 12 9 15
=9 JOHNCOCK Graham 10.3 9 12 9 5 10 13 13 11
11 CLARKE Matthew 12.5 11 9 12 17 11 7 15 18
12 STEVENS Mark 12.6 12 24 3 15 23 8 12 4
13 REILLY Brent 12.9 13 16 10 13 14 11 10 16
14 RUTTEN Ben 14.0 14 14 15 16 17 10 14 12
15 THOMPSON Scott 14.3 17 15 18 12 18 17 8 9
16 BIGLANDS Rhett 14.6 22 10 16 8 15 14 18 14
17 BASSETT Nathan 15.5 16 11 21 14 13 15 17 17
18 PERRIE Ian 17.1 15 17 17 22 12 18 16 20
19 BODE Matthew 19.9 31 18 14 19 19 23 22 13
20 TORNEY Jason 20.4 23 19 19 18 20 20 20 24
21 BEGLEY James 20.8 20 25 24 20 16 19 19 23
=22 JERICHO Luke 24.1 19 21 25 26 22 26 27 27
=22 SHIRLEY Robert 24.1 18 30 27 23 24 25 21 25
23 MATTNER Martin 24.3 26 22 26 21 25 22 24 28
24 MASSIE Kris 24.4 29 20 20 25 26 28 26 21
25 DOUGHTY Michael 24.5 24 23 30 24 21 24 28 22
26 LADHAMS Chris 27.0 36 26 22 30 30 30 23 19
27 HUDSON Ben 27.5 21 28 32 29 27 21 30 32
28 WATTS Fergus 28.4 28 33 23 28 29 32 25 29
29 SKIPWORTH H 30.0 32 27 29 31 32 29 29 31
30 SCHUBACK Jacob 30.4 27 32 28 27 34 34 31 30
31 BOCK Nathan 31.4 37 31 31 35 28 27 36 26
32 STEVENS Scott 32.3 33 29 35 33 31 31 33 33
33 KRUEGER Joshua 32.4 25 37 33 32 33 33 32 34
34 VAN BERLO N 35.6 34 37 37 36 36 35 34 36
35 SMITH Matthew 36.3 30 37 34 34 40 40 40 35
36 MEESON John 36.9 38 37 38 38 35 36 35 38
37 GIBSON Chad 37.3 35 37 36 37 38 39 37 39
=39 KNIGHTS Chris 38.5 40 37 40 40 37 38 39 37
=39 MARIC Ivan 38.5 39 37 39 39 39 37 38 40

[outback jack]

i think so far bassett's importance is overated and benny harts is underrated............

perrie might be a bit low too when hes in form he provides a good focal point.

My top term in terms of importance to the team if they werent injured:

1. Roo
2. hart
3. Goodwin
4.Macca
5. Stevens (if not injured)
6 kenny
7 Edwards
8. Welsh
9. Perrie
10. Torney


If macca can get his form before the last two yrs, he'd be top, and its too early to tell about thompson or any of the new draftees .......

[drakeyv2]

Ok here goes.

1. Welsh
2. Stevens M.
3. Hentschel
4. McGregor
5. Rutten
6. Biglands
7. Ricciuto
8. McLeod
9. Thompson
10. Goodwin

I feel the need to explain why I have Roo Bar at 7. If you asked to pick the best player he would be no 1, but he had a sensational year last year & we finished 12th.

I have rated the players who will make up the spine as being more important.

[marvin]

1. Ricciuto
2. McLeod
3. M. Stevens
4. Hart
5. Goodwin
6. Clarke
7. McGregor
8. Edwards
9. Welsh
10. Johncock
11. Reilly
12. Hentschel
13. Rutten
14. Burton
15. Thompson
16. Begley
17. Hudson
18. Biglands
19. Massie
20. Perrie
21. Bassett
22. Mattner
23. Bode
24. Ladhams
25. Schuback
26. Shirley
27. Jericho
28. Torney
29. Doughty
30 Watts
31. Skipworth
32. Stevens S
33. Smith
34. Bock

Can't rate the rest as I've never seen them play.

[outback jack]

1. Ricciuto
2. McLeod
3. M. Stevens
4. Hart
5. Goodwin
6. Clarke
7. McGregor
8. Edwards
9. Welsh
10. Johncock
11. Reilly
12. Hentschel
13. Rutten
14. Burton
15. Thompson
16. Begley
17. Hudson
18. Biglands
19. Massie
20. Perrie
21. Bassett
22. Mattner
23. Bode
24. Ladhams
25. Schuback
26. Shirley
27. Jericho
28. Torney
29. Doughty
30 Watts
31. Skipworth
32. Stevens S
33. Smith
34. Bock

Can't rate the rest as I've never seen them play.

do you have a personal grudge against bock or something?? No way hes the worse player in the squad. Sure hes not a natural forward but will eventually be a better defender than the likes of rutten who you have at 13. Perrie at 20 is too low as well, hes virtually our only genuine option at CHF.

I think the likes of massie and skipworth would go before bock, even smith who you have above him. Did he do something against you?

[macca23]

do you have a personal grudge against bock or something?? No way hes the worse player in the squad. Sure hes not a natural forward but will eventually be a better defender than the likes of rutten who you have at 13. Perrie at 20 is too low as well, hes virtually our only genuine option at CHF.

I think the likes of massie and skipworth would go before bock, even smith who you have above him. Did he do something against you?

I couldn't rate Bock ahead of Massie at this stage, but I think your overall comments on both him and Perrie are on the money. We have quite a few players worse than Bock in our squad, with the worst of these being Smith IMO, who has achieved slightly less than fkall at this stage.

I had Perrie at 12, because there has to be a real doubt on Stevens, and if the worst happens, Perrie is the hope of the side at CHF.

[arrowman]

do you have a personal grudge against bock or something?? No way hes the worse player in the squad...I agree with you, but this is not about "best/worst" it's about "most important" and right now young Nathan is not as "important" as many others.

His job, like that of the other young players, is to make himself important to the team. ;)

[marvin]

I agree with you, but this is not about "best/worst" it's about "most important" and right now young Nathan is not as "important" as many others.

His job, like that of the other young players, is to make himself important to the team. ;)

Nicely summarised.

I don't think Bock's our worst player (out of the players I've seen), any more than I think that Clarke is our 6th best player. I think Clarke is our 6th most IMPORTANT player, in that we'd struggle to cover him, but I think that Edwards and Johncock for example are clearly better players, even though I rate them slightly less important.

[marvin]

do you have a personal grudge against bock or something?? No way hes the worse player in the squad. Sure hes not a natural forward but will eventually be a better defender than the likes of rutten who you have at 13. Perrie at 20 is too low as well, hes virtually our only genuine option at CHF.

I think the likes of massie and skipworth would go before bock, even smith who you have above him. Did he do something against you?

Clearly, whatever Nathan Bock has done to upset me is nothing on what he's done to upset noddy or Kane McGoodwin. He must have a talent for personally offending people.

Are you going to put your list in, or just cast aspersions on me because I have Bock at 34?

[tztommo]

[CENTER]1. Ricciuto
2. McLeod
3. McGregor
4. Edwards
5. Goodwin
6. Welsh
7. Hentschel
8. Clarke
9. Johncock
10. Perrie
11. Hart
12. Rutten
13. Reilly
14. Thompson
15. Bassett
16. Biglands
17. Watts
18. Begley
19. Jericho
20. Mattner
21. Stevens M
22. Shirley
23. Bock
24. Doughty
25. Hudson
26. Burton
27. Schuback
28. Bode
29. Massie
30. Smith
31.Kruegar
32. Torney
33. Stevens S
34. Van Berlo
35. Gibson
36. Ladhams
37. Skipworth
38. Meeson
39. Maric
40. Knights


M Stevens is lower down due to be injured and if wont find it as easy to get in the squad this year as he has previous years. i just wish exciting players like ladhams could have more game time.Clarke will do the bulk of the ruck work this year and so important in the centre doing the ruck work. Mattner will have a much bigger role this year after Stenglien's departure and he will do most of the tagging along with Shirley. There are other players like S Stevens and Bode i just dont see getting much game time.

[Markthirtytwo]

1. Ricciuto
2. McLeod 2. Edwards
4. McGregor
5. Clarke
6. Welsh 6.Johncock
8. Hart
9. Hentschel
10. Goodwin
11. Rutten
12. M. Stevens
13. Thompson
14. Burton
15. Reilly
16. Perrie
17. Bassett
18. Biglands
19. Hudson
20. Schuback
21. Begley
22. Bode
23. Ladhams
24. Shirley
25. Watts
26. Massie
27. Jericho
28. Doughty
29. Skipworth
30. Mattner
31. Torney
32. Krueger
33. Stevens S
34. Van Berlo
35. Meeson
36. Bock
37. Gibson
38. Maric
39. Knights
40. Smith.

As you see I rank a few players equal importance due to the fact I believe that should be that important to the team structure and success of it.

We require a dominate ruck with winning flankers to go with our midfield.
I cant see our forward KPP dominating somehow, so the flankers must take the resposibility.

[jo172]

Sigh, depth isn't what it used to be

1. Mark Ricciuto
2. Tyson Edwards
3. Andrew Mcleod
4. Ben Hart
5. Simon Goodwin
6. Ken Mcgregor
7. Scott Welsh
8. Graham Johncock
9. Mathew Clarke
10. Rhett Biglands
11. Ben Rutten
12. Brent Reilly
13. Trent Hentshel
14. Mark Stevens
15. Ian Perrie
16. Brett Burton
17. James Begley
18. Jason Torney
19. Nathan Basset
20. Mathew Bode
21. Martin Mattner
22. Kris Massie
23. Michael Doughty
24. Ben Hudson
25. Fergus Watts
26. Luke Jericho
27. Hadyn Skipworth
28. Chris Ladhams
29. Nathan Bock
30. Jacob Schuback
31. Scott Stevens
32. Robert Shirley
33. Rowan Andrews
34. Josh Kruger
35. Mathew Smith

Newbies (Value for this year)

1. Scott Thompson
2. Nathan Van Berlo
3. Chad Gibson
4. John Meesen
5. Chad Knights
6. Ryan Nye
7. Ivan Maric
8. John Hinge
9. Jonathon Griffin

Having said that i think all newbies have a better chance of getting a game than Smith.

And My starting 22 assuming alls well

FB: Torney Rutten Hart
HB: Basset McGregor Reilly
C: Johncock Ricciuto Goodwin
HF: Edwards Perrie Hentshel
FF: Biglands Stevens Welsh
1R: Clarke Thompson Mcleod
INT: Hudson Jericho Mattner Burton

[macca23]

And My starting 22 assuming alls well

FB: Torney Rutten Hart
HB: Basset McGregor Reilly
C: Johncock Ricciuto Goodwin
HF: Jericho Perrie Hentshel
FF: Biglands Stevens Welsh
1R: Clarke Thompson Mcleod
INT: Hudson Bode Mattner Burton

Pssssssst!

Where's Edwards? ;)

I won't tell the others you forgot him. :D

[dyertribe]

1. Mark Ricciuto
2. Andrew McLeod
3. Ken McGregor
4. Scott Welsh
5. Ben Hart
6. Simon Goodwin
7. Tyson Edwards
8. Matthew Clarke
9. Ian Perrie
10. Trent Hentschel
11. Ben Rutten
12. Graham Johncock
13. Scott Thompson
14. Brett Burton
15. Jason Torney
16. Brent Reilly
17. Rhett Biglands
18. Nathan Bassett
19. Josh Krueger
20. James Begley
21. Ben Hudson
22. Marty Mattner
23. Mark Stevens
24. Luke Jericho
25. Fergus Watts
26. Nathan Bock
27. Matthew Bode
28. Nathan Van Berlo
29. Kris Massie
30. John Meesen
31. Rob Shirley
32. Matthew Smith
33. Chad Gibson
34. Scott Stevens
35. Michael Doughty
36. Jacob Schuback
37. Chris Ladhams
38. Tom Maric
39. Chris Knights
40. Hayden Skipworth

[jo172]

Pssssssst!

Where's Edwards? ;)

I won't tell the others you forgot him. :D

Thanks, alot easier to do during the season when you've got something other than the top of your head to work off, the original version didn't include Goodwin :o

[Kane McGoodwin]

Consolidated Update #2


Rank Player Name Ave KMc DW C98 Nod M23 MD Dog N1DP Marv Tom M32 DT
1 RICCUITO Mark 1.08 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1
2 MCLEOD Andrew 1.96 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 2 2 2.5 2
3 MCGREGOR Ken 4.50 3 5 4 6 3 9 4 3 7 3 4 3
4 EDWARDS Tyson 4.88 5 3 6 4 5 4 3 7 8 4 2.5 7
5 GOODWIN Simon 5.00 4 4 5 3 4 3 5 6 5 5 10 6
6 HART Ben 6.83 8 7 7 7 8 5 7 5 4 11 8 5
7 WELSH Scott 8.46 6 8 13 10 9 16 6 8 9 6 6.5 4
8 JOHNCOCK Graham 9.96 9 12 9 5 10 13 13 11 10 9 6.5 12
9 HENTSCHEL Trent 10.00 7 13 11 9 6 12 9 15 12 7 9 10
10 CLARKE Matthew 10.58 11 9 12 17 11 7 15 18 6 8 5 8
11 BURTON Brett 11.42 10 6 8 11 7 6 11 10 14 26 14 14
12 REILLY Brent 13.17 13 16 10 13 14 11 10 16 11 13 15 16
13 RUTTEN Ben 13.25 14 14 15 16 17 10 14 12 13 12 11 11
14 STEVENS Mark 13.33 12 24 3 15 23 8 12 4 3 21 12 23
15 THOMPSON Scott 14.08 17 15 18 12 18 17 8 9 15 14 13 13
16 BIGLANDS Rhett 15.50 22 10 16 8 15 14 18 14 18 16 18 17
17 PERRIE Ian 16.00 15 17 17 22 12 18 16 20 20 10 16 9
18 BASSETT Nathan 16.25 16 11 21 14 13 15 17 17 21 15 17 18
19 BEGLEY James 20.08 20 25 24 20 16 19 19 23 16 18 21 20
20 BODE Matthew 21.58 31 18 14 19 19 23 22 13 23 28 22 27
21 TORNEY Jason 22.42 23 19 19 18 20 20 20 24 28 32 31 15
22 MATTNER Martin 24.00 26 22 26 21 25 22 24 28 22 20 30 22
23 JERICHO Luke 24.17 19 21 25 26 22 26 27 27 27 19 27 24
24 SHIRLEY Robert 24.67 18 30 27 23 24 25 21 25 26 22 24 31
25 MASSIE Kris 24.83 29 20 20 25 26 28 26 21 19 29 26 29
26 HUDSON Ben 25.17 21 28 32 29 27 21 30 32 17 25 19 21
27 DOUGHTY Michael 26.00 24 23 30 24 21 24 28 22 29 24 28 35
28 WATTS Fergus 27.00 28 33 23 28 29 32 25 29 30 17 25 25
29 LADHAMS Chris 28.00 36 26 22 30 30 30 23 19 24 36 23 37
30 SCHUBACK Jacob 29.25 27 32 28 27 34 34 31 30 25 27 20 36
31 BOCK Nathan 30.83 37 31 31 35 28 27 36 26 34 23 36 26
32 SKIPWORTH H 31.42 32 27 29 31 32 29 29 31 31 37 29 40
33 KRUEGER Joshua 31.54 25 37 33 32 33 33 32 34 37.5 31 32 19
34 STEVENS Scott 32.50 33 29 35 33 31 31 33 33 32 33 33 34
35 VAN BERLO N 34.88 34 37 37 36 36 35 34 36 37.5 34 34 28
36 SMITH Matthew 35.42 30 37 34 34 40 40 40 35 33 30 40 32
37 MEESON John 36.29 38 37 38 38 35 36 35 38 37.5 38 35 30
38 GIBSON Chad 36.71 35 37 36 37 38 39 37 39 37.5 35 37 33
39 MARIC Ivan 38.38 39 37 39 39 39 37 38 40 37.5 39 38 38
40 KNIGHTS Chris 38.63 40 37 40 40 37 38 39 37 37.5 40 39 39

[Wayne's-World]

Hell Kane, way too much time on your hands son ;) :p

[dyertribe]

Nice little table Kaneos, makes it easier to analyse people's choices.

It seems I've gone out on a limb - well not that much, maybe more of a twig - in selecting Welshy as high as four, but as far as I'm concerned, if he can stay fit for 20-22 games next season (no chance) and retain his form from the second half of 2004 we'll potentially have a 60-goal match-winning forward on our hands for the first time since the days of Mods.

As far as other players go, the only other really interesting/surprising thing of note, for me, is seeing Jacob Schuback a healthy 11 spots from the bottom on average.

If we're truly going on how important all these players are to the AFC in 2005, it puzzles me that someone - and a dime-a-dozen flanker at that - who has done absolutely bugger all in the tricolours for the past 2-3 years can come in ahead of our 2004 draft crop (the children are our future) and the likes of Joshua Krueger, who has all the talent and ability in the world, and only just needs an even break from his body.

Anyway, I'd like to see more discussion on this excellent concept.

[No 1 Draft Pick]

Anyway, I'd like to see more discussion on this excellent concept.

OK

I cant believe Reilly is 12th compared to M Stevens 14th. Surely having M Stevens playing 22 games for the Crows in 2005 (compared to Reilly playing 22 games) would have a greater impact - at CHF/FF/FP. Reilly still needs to fully prove himself IMO - Stevens doesnt (assuming he is on the park)

It could be argued a fit firing Goodwin (dual AA) is more important to the team than Edwards.

Ditto the above point for Mc Leod and Roo (thats why I had Mc Leod at 1). If Mc Leod had an absolute blinder in 2005 can we imagine that we wouldnt make the 8? I Cant. He seems to be a barometer for the team and when firing we rarely lose. Conversely in the last 2 years even with amazingly good, consistent form the Crows havent gone anywhere with Roo firing.

As mentioned in a previous thread I think Thompson is materially underated at 15th. Top 10 in my view

Obviously ratings will change over time - Perries star has risen recently for example as he has been listed top 10 by 2 of the last 3 posters to this thread - I imagine partly due to favourable media and training reports

[macca23]

As far as other players go, the only other really interesting/surprising thing of note, for me, is seeing Jacob Schuback a healthy 11 spots from the bottom on average.

If we're truly going on how important all these players are to the AFC in 2005, it puzzles me that someone - and a dime-a-dozen flanker at that - who has done absolutely bugger all in the tricolours for the past 2-3 years can come in ahead of our 2004 draft crop (the children are our future) and the likes of Joshua Krueger, who has all the talent and ability in the world, and only just needs an even break from his body.

Anyway, I'd like to see more discussion on this excellent concept.

No argument from me DT. I played it safe by not rating the newbies to our list, apart from Thompson, but if I really stuck my neck out, Schuback would drop below all the 5 draftees, and have only the princely figure of Smith, Lord of the Dings, beneath him. :D

Of course that would be rating on potential to a degree, although my eyes tell me that Van Berlo will be an AFL footballer, something that Schuback hasn't been able to prove in the past 3 years. Also if we were offered a choice of Meeson, Maric, and Gibson with their big strong frames, or Schuey, a dime-a-dozen flanker as you correctly called him, we'd be saying "ta-ta Schuey". Even Chris Knights, our final pick, and a nicely built 6'1" mid-fielder has far more promise than Schuey, who IMO is not going to cut the mustard.

The more I look at it, the more valid your point is.

[topjars]

This wasn't about who is our best matchwinner, but moreso who would we miss most if they were injured in terms of the structure of our team.

I hear what your saying.
Then it perplexes me that Turbo is ranked SO LOW by some quarters.

:confused:

[tztommo]

great table kane

thanks mate

[No 1 Draft Pick]

As far as other players go, the only other really interesting/surprising thing of note, for me, is seeing Jacob Schuback a healthy 11 spots from the bottom on average.


Agree he probably isnt up to it. 2005 is his last opportunity. He had one good game against the hapless Hawks and showed some encouraging signs with his pace and booming kick.

Re rankings, 7 of the 10 players below Schuey havent played a game though and most people seem to have ranked such players in the '30s' for the sake of this exercise.

The only players who have played a game to rank below Schuey include the not so big names of S Stevens, Bock and Skippy

[macca23]

I hear what your saying.
Then it perplexes me that Turbo is ranked SO LOW by some quarters.

:confused:

It's not so much that people don't rate Mark Stevens, TJ, it's more that they're highly doubtful that his body will stay sound and he'll actually be on the ground.

When we did this exercise for 2004, I rated Stevo at 18, because I doubted his ability to stay sound - and sadly so it proved.

This year I haven't put him in the first 22, rather at 23, for the very same reason.

If he played 16 or more games for the year he'd be in our top half dozen.

[topjars]

Would we not miss him if he were injured in terms of the structure of our team. :confused: ...that was Kanes point.

Most important position on the park IMO so if he goes missing so might our structure.

Ive rated him on this basis.

[Mad Dog]

Is it possible that there are different interpretations of the question????

ie fav player...best player....likely to have most impact......or all things considered potentially the most important to our prospects.???

Maybe some of these lists are coming from different contexts of the question.

ie - I had Rutten very high - only 'cos if he holds down FB....it frees up others to be more attacking....if he falls over...then we will be plugging the gap with a Ben Hart or Bassett....which will be very costly IMO.

anyway - Food for thought....and maybe a reason for some of the differences.

[topjars]

Yep

[marvin]

Nice little table Kaneos, makes it easier to analyse people's choices.

It seems I've gone out on a limb - well not that much, maybe more of a twig - in selecting Welshy as high as four, but as far as I'm concerned, if he can stay fit for 20-22 games next season (no chance) and retain his form from the second half of 2004 we'll potentially have a 60-goal match-winning forward on our hands for the first time since the days of Mods.



Rating Welsh was the harder for me than any other pick.

Part of me wanted to slot him in as high as you did, as the only forward we have who is capable of kicking a big bag and winning a game single handed.
However, he is one player who seems to leave something at home when he crosses the border from SA. You have to go back to early 2003 to think of the last decent game he played away from Footy Park, while he's strung some really spectacular games together at home. I can excuse a kid being overawed on his first away game in front of a hostile Collingwood crowd, for example, but as a senior player the drop off in his production when wearing the white shorts is a worry. (For the record, he's had one 5 goal plus haul away from Footy Park for Adelaide - vs the Kangas at Manuka, not the most intimidating atmosphere. Before that, he had two 4 goal games away, both in 2000, versus Richmond and Brisbane).

As far as other players go, the only other really interesting/surprising thing of note, for me, is seeing Jacob Schuback a healthy 11 spots from the bottom on average.

If we're truly going on how important all these players are to the AFC in 2005, it puzzles me that someone - and a dime-a-dozen flanker at that - who has done absolutely bugger all in the tricolours for the past 2-3 years can come in ahead of our 2004 draft crop (the children are our future) and the likes of Joshua Krueger, who has all the talent and ability in the world, and only just needs an even break from his body.

Anyway, I'd like to see more discussion on this excellent concept.

While I believe children are our future, (teach them well and let them lead the way), I haven't seen this years draft crop and I'm not prepared to rate them on what I've read on afc.com.au or in the 'tiser. Same goes for Krueger, who I haven't seen yet.

I may have Schuback a bit high at number 25, but my feeling is that he's a young player with less questions about his talent and courage than some. He looks to me like he needs to either convince himself that he's an AFL player, or be convinced by someone that he's an AFL player, but he does have more to offer in 2005 than some of last year's draftees do.

[Kane McGoodwin]

Hell Kane, way too much time on your hands son ;) :p
Doesn't actually take too much time WW in a spreadsheet. With my busy days at the moment, I need felty like doing some mind-numbing work. ;)

[Kane McGoodwin]

Would we not miss him if he were injured in terms of the structure of our team. :confused: ...that was Kanes point.

Most important position on the park IMO so if he goes missing so might our structure.

Ive rated him on this basis.
No doubt Stevo is important to our structure, but we do have Perrie, Hentschel & Welsh also as forwards. ie. I believe we can cover M Stevens better no than we could a year ago, as we have got used to playing without him. It will be a bonus if he plays games this year & a big bonus at that!

I rated Kenny high, because I believe he is currently the most important KPP is our structure.

[dyertribe]

OK

I cant believe Reilly is 12th compared to M Stevens 14th. Surely having M Stevens playing 22 games for the Crows in 2005 (compared to Reilly playing 22 games) would have a greater impact - at CHF/FF/FP. Reilly still needs to fully prove himself IMO - Stevens doesnt (assuming he is on the park)

I'm inclined to agree on both counts. Mark Stevens was a tough one. We all know how vital he is to our structure if and when he is fit - however I and others were inclined to rank him down because he's only managed what, 11 games over the past two seasons, and this one will surely be his last as it is.

He is a top player when on board, but we've had to do without him far more often than not - and thus his overall importance to the AFC cause has greatly diminished.

As far as Reilly goes, he's certainly in our first eighteen as far as importance goes (I had him sneaking in at 16), but that's on hope and potential alone. If Reilly couldn't make the side due to illness, injury or suspension in any given week we could survive and replace him quite easily.

Until he moves into the midfield and regularly does the business he's nowhere near as important as our upper-tier onballers and various KPPs.

It could be argued a fit firing Goodwin (dual AA) is more important to the team than Edwards.

I agree wholeheartedly. Goody at his best is a dual All-Australian, Club Champion and gamebreaker. Edwards for all his ironman consistency and versatility isn't at that level.

Ditto the above point for Mc Leod and Roo (thats why I had Mc Leod at 1). If Mc Leod had an absolute blinder in 2005 can we imagine that we wouldnt make the 8? I Cant. He seems to be a barometer for the team and when firing we rarely lose. Conversely in the last 2 years even with amazingly good, consistent form the Crows havent gone anywhere with Roo firing.

While I'm inclined to agree that McLeod is the barometer for our club, he doesn't give the all-round four-quarter 'get on my back I'll carry you' week-in, week-out that Ricciuto has been supplying us for the best part of a decade.

As mentioned in a previous thread I think Thompson is materially underated at 15th. Top 10 in my view

I'm inclined to agree, as he should be our best purely inside midfielder by the end of the season.

Perries star has risen recently for example as he has been listed top 10 by 2 of the last 3 posters to this thread - I imagine partly due to favourable media and training reports

I'd say the reports have had an impact, however I think it has more to do with the fact he's our number one option for the most difficult position on the ground.

If these rankings were judged on talent rather than importance, then of course there is no way Perrie would be even close to that high.

[dyertribe]

No argument from me DT. I played it safe by not rating the newbies to our list, apart from Thompson, but if I really stuck my neck out, Schuback would drop below all the 5 draftees, and have only the princely figure of Smith, Lord of the Dings, beneath him. :D

Of course that would be rating on potential to a degree, although my eyes tell me that Van Berlo will be an AFL footballer, something that Schuback hasn't been able to prove in the past 3 years. Also if we were offered a choice of Meeson, Maric, and Gibson with their big strong frames, or Schuey, a dime-a-dozen flanker as you correctly called him, we'd be saying "ta-ta Schuey". Even Chris Knights, our final pick, and a nicely built 6'1" mid-fielder has far more promise than Schuey, who IMO is not going to cut the mustard.

The more I look at it, the more valid your point is.

Mmmm, the reason why I had the 2004 draftees higher than some of the proven chaff on our list is because their first year is all important. They have to adapt to the new state, the new club(s), the new level of training and competition, everything.

This first 12-18 months will go a long way to deciding whether they'll be Angwins and Gilligans or Johnsons and Stengleins - even if they don't make their AFL debut. Meanwhile I have a sneaking suspicion that Bode will still be Bode and Smith will still be Smith.

[Markthirtytwo]

Is it possible that there are different interpretations of the question????

ie fav player...best player....likely to have most impact......or all things considered potentially the most important to our prospects.???

Maybe some of these lists are coming from different contexts of the question.

ie - I had Rutten very high - only 'cos if he holds down FB....it frees up others to be more attacking....if he falls over...then we will be plugging the gap with a Ben Hart or Bassett....which will be very costly IMO.

anyway - Food for thought....and maybe a reason for some of the differences.


exacto mondo MD.
Thats what I thought it was about also, to list the players you feel had to be a force in a particular position if the side was to improve, not on team structure. Hence I had a some players equal with others for that reason, not because I thought they have been good in the past.

Hudson is a glaring example IMO. Some had him outside the 22.

Strange.

[dyertribe]

Is it possible that there are different interpretations of the question???

I took Kane's call of 'importance' at face value and basically split it into two parts when considering my choices.

*How important is their onfield and off-field role, presence and development to the Adelaide Football Club?

and

*How difficult would it be to replace them should, god forbid, they go down with a serious injury or long-term suspension?

[dyertribe]

Rating Welsh was the harder for me than any other pick.

Part of me wanted to slot him in as high as you did, as the only forward we have who is capable of kicking a big bag and winning a game single handed.
However, he is one player who seems to leave something at home when he crosses the border from SA. You have to go back to early 2003 to think of the last decent game he played away from Footy Park, while he's strung some really spectacular games together at home. I can excuse a kid being overawed on his first away game in front of a hostile Collingwood crowd, for example, but as a senior player the drop off in his production when wearing the white shorts is a worry. (For the record, he's had one 5 goal plus haul away from Footy Park for Adelaide - vs the Kangas at Manuka, not the most intimidating atmosphere. Before that, he had two 4 goal games away, both in 2000, versus Richmond and Brisbane).

That is a very interesting point you make - he does treat AAMI rather like a coccoon is too afraid to wander out of, doesn't he.

I guess the obvious question is, who else do we have who can break games open and kick bags of 4, 5, 6 and 7 (albeit inconsistently) like he can?

While I believe children are our future, (teach them well and let them lead the way), I haven't seen this years draft crop and I'm not prepared to rate them on what I've read on afc.com.au or in the 'tiser. Same goes for Krueger, who I haven't seen yet.

That's fair enough. I guess as far as the majority of this year's draftees goes, what I haven't seen is far greater than what I have seen from those I had lower - if that makes sense.

I may have Schuback a bit high at number 25, but my feeling is that he's a young player with less questions about his talent and courage than some. He looks to me like he needs to either convince himself that he's an AFL player, or be convinced by someone that he's an AFL player, but he does have more to offer in 2005 than some of last year's draftees do.

I guess where we differ with Schuey is, he's had a good two or three years headstart on our current crop of rookies, and despite still being under starter's orders, that peleton is already within sight of him.

[Markthirtytwo]

Is it possible that there are different interpretations of the question

I took it as important that the player either must score or hold his oponent to win a game.

For example I think I had the Truck higher than most due to the fact he must hold his opponent in 9/10 games for the team to win.

Could have lost in translation however. Not the first time.

[jo172]

Sigh, depth isn't what it used to be

1. Mark Ricciuto
2. Tyson Edwards
3. Andrew Mcleod
4. Ben Hart
5. Simon Goodwin
6. Ken Mcgregor
7. Scott Welsh
8. Graham Johncock
9. Mathew Clarke
10. Rhett Biglands
11. Ben Rutten
12. Brent Reilly
13. Trent Hentshel
14. Mark Stevens
15. Ian Perrie
16. Brett Burton
17. James Begley
18. Jason Torney
19. Nathan Basset
20. Mathew Bode
21. Martin Mattner
22. Kris Massie
23. Michael Doughty
24. Ben Hudson
25. Fergus Watts
26. Luke Jericho
27. Hadyn Skipworth
28. Chris Ladhams
29. Nathan Bock
30. Jacob Schuback
31. Scott Stevens
32. Robert Shirley
33. Rowan Andrews
34. Josh Kruger
35. Mathew Smith

Newbies (Value for this year)

1. Scott Thompson
2. Nathan Van Berlo
3. Chad Gibson
4. John Meesen
5. Chad Knights
6. Ryan Nye
7. Ivan Maric
8. John Hinge
9. Jonathon Griffin

Having said that i think all newbies have a better chance of getting a game than Smith.

And My starting 22 assuming alls well

FB: Torney Rutten Hart
HB: Basset McGregor Reilly
C: Johncock Ricciuto Goodwin
HF: Edwards Perrie Hentshel
FF: Biglands Stevens Welsh
1R: Clarke Thompson Mcleod
INT: Hudson Jericho Mattner Burton

:cool: :cool:

[DaveW]

I think everyone had Rutten in the teens, so he's certainly made an impact by the end of last year.

Bock's the big surprise - 27 was the highest anyone had him according to Kane's last summary.

I like dyertribe's call on Welsh. 60 goals wasn't far off the mark. He's shown this year that he's arguably the player most crucial to our success. When Welsh plays well, Adelaide plays well.

[Stiffy_18]

I think everyone had Rutten in the teens, so he's certainly made an impact by the end of last year.

Bock's the big surprise - 27 was the highest anyone had him according to Kane's last summary.

I like dyertribe's call on Welsh. 60 goals wasn't far off the mark. He's shown this year that he's arguably the player most crucial to our success. When Welsh plays well, Adelaide plays well.
Unfortunately Welshy has been down in the last few weeks.

He needs to lift this week or we could struggle to kick a winning score.

[dyertribe]

I like dyertribe's call on Welsh. 60 goals wasn't far off the mark. He's shown this year that he's arguably the player most crucial to our success. When Welsh plays well, Adelaide plays well.

I made a few good ones actually. I'm surprised as you are.

[birdmanptr]

If You Guys Did This Now Where Would Hudo Be?

[AdelUniCrowFan]

If You Guys Did This Now Where Would Hudo Be?

My current top 19
1. Ricciuto
2. Goodwin
3. Rutten
4. Hudson
5. Bassett
6. Edwards
7. Mattner
8. McLeod
9. Bock
10. McGregor
11. Perrie
12. Thompson
13. Welsh
14. Johncock
15. Hart
16. Burton
17. Biglands
18. Hentschel
19. Clarke

Order could have easily changed.

[bringbacblight]

1. Rucciuto, Best Captain in The AFL
2. Goodwin, Struggled without him last year, made a massive difference
3. Hart, Allows bassett to play on third or fourth best forward. Again Missed him last year.
4. Rutten, Big Improver, Takes best Forward and does a job every week
5.Hudson, Dominanted at stoppages all year, gave us first use.
6. Macleod, Champion, almost back to his best
7. MacGregor, Good up forward or back
8. Edwards, Most under rated player in the comp
9. Thompson, Recruit of the year
10. Welsh, when his playing well, we play well


very hard, but shows how important our best 22 are, Injuries and depth is our biggest problem.