View Full Version : Do we overate Trent Hentschel ?
No 1 Draft Pick
5 Jan 2005, 11:02
Since joining this board in October I have been a little surprised about the (excessive) hype with this guy. With the player ranking thread at the moment a majority of people have him listed in their top 10 - or top 7 in a few cases
Is the hype justified?
My view is he generally has good disposal, good decision-making and the ability to place himself in the right position to be involved in a contest. He also kicked 4 goals twice during the year. As queries, I haven't noticed anything special about this athleticism or marking ability so far (Avg 3.5 over career). IIRC when drafted his player bio mentioned the ability to take screamers pretty regularly so perhaps this will become more apparent over time.
I believe he is one of our most promising youngsters and could become a top-liner over coming years. I just havent seen enough evidence yet to fully convince me though.
I know a majority of people here really rate him. What are the reasons you are so convinced he will be our next big thing? I genuinely hope you guys are spot on and he is a top liner in 2005 and beyond.
Capitalist
5 Jan 2005, 11:09
looking at him considering his stunted (the Ayres Legacy), and the abilities that you mention for a 21 yr old has a lot of this board excited, prior to injury he was one of our better players in really his first full season, the guy have a football brain which 60% of the crows players seem to lack and has that extra 1 second to dispose of the ball like the Great D Jarman seemed to have
I admit though that early comparisons with James Hird may have been a bit excessive,
dyertribe
5 Jan 2005, 11:10
I think as a club we tend to overhype any youngster who shows half a glimpse of talent, if that - see Brent Reilly and Ben Rutten especially.
While I was initially far from convinced about Trentschel's first few shaky displays in an Adelaide guernsey, in 2004 he showed more than enough signs to suggest he will be a highly valuable asset both forward and back in the years to come.
Has to build on the foundations laid last year.
I think as a club we tend to overhype any youngster who shows half a glimpse of talent, if that - see Brent Reilly and Ben Rutten especially.
While I was initially far from convinced about Trentschel's first few shaky displays in an Adelaide guernsey, in 2004 he showed more than enough signs to suggest he will be a highly valuable asset both forward and back in the years to come.
Has to build on the foundations laid last year.
Good sumary DT, and I think he will really develop on it this year.
3 extra things in his favour:-
1 - His natural ability is undoubted because his teammates rate him highly, and a player can't fool them.
2 - He has one of the smallest turning circles I've seen for a player his size.
3 - he is a genuine thinking footballer, and has that extra second of time as Capitalist has already stated.
SpringChoke
5 Jan 2005, 11:28
looking at him considering his stunted (the Ayres Legacy), and the abilities that you mention for a 21 yr old has a lot of this board excited, prior to injury he was one of our better players in really his first full season, the guy have a football brain which 60% of the crows players seem to lack and has that extra 1 second to dispose of the ball like the Great D Jarman seemed to have
I admit though that early comparisons with James Hird may have been a bit excessive,
I reckon this kid could be anything. Has something in abundance which is sadly missing in alot of players at West Lakes, a football brain.
McLeod23
5 Jan 2005, 11:33
I think as a club we tend to overhype any youngster who shows half a glimpse of talent, if that - see Brent Reilly and Ben Rutten especially.
Very true, DT.
Its hard not to get excited when a youngster actually shows some talent, when we have guys like Skipworth, S.Stevens and Ladhams who are so stagnate.
I know this isn't really relevant to the thread, but I hope that with Craig on board we start to make smart choices in regard to list management - no more hanging onto stale players who clearly are going nowhere. West Coast are one of the competition benchmarks in this 'field', and I hope we can start to improve in this area - Off-Season 04/05 has been a good start.
As for Hentschel, I think he will become a quality player, but probably not in a key position; a forward or back flanker looks his future, with cameo roles in KP's.
Kane McGoodwin
5 Jan 2005, 11:57
Since joining this board in October I have been a little surprised about the (excessive) hype with this guy. With the player ranking thread at the moment a majority of people have him listed in their top 10 - or top 7 in a few cases
Is the hype justified?
My view is he generally has good disposal, good decision-making and the ability to place himself in the right position to be involved in a contest. He also kicked 4 goals twice during the year. As queries, I haven't noticed anything special about this athleticism or marking ability so far (Avg 3.5 over career). IIRC when drafted his player bio mentioned the ability to take screamers pretty regularly so perhaps this will become more apparent over time.
I believe he is one of our most promising youngsters and could become a top-liner over coming years. I just havent seen enough evidence yet to fully convince me though.
I know a majority of people here really rate him. What are the reasons you are so convinced he will be our next big thing? I genuinely hope you guys are spot on and he is a top liner in 2005 and beyond.
Opinions will regularly differ on this board & that's what (usually) leads to healthy discussion - eg. I rate Bode low, yet you rate him higher than Hentschel.
Comparisons of Trent's ability to a champion Hird are crazy, however he does have similar attributes in his movement & poise. As has been mentioned, Trent has 1 of the best footy brain's at AFC & has genuine ability, & 2004 showed that we should have much to be excited about as he develops this year & beyond.
I just saw him do a few freakish things and I've been a huge fan ever since. :D
captain ebert
5 Jan 2005, 12:28
early comparisons with James Hird may have been a bit excessive,
may have been? are you sure?
I just saw him do a few freakish things and I've been a huge fan ever since. :D
He can do the freakish things on the footy field & even though i didn't initially think that much of him i have since changed my mind & jumped on Stiffy 18s bandwagon.
One thing that could be a concern is that he does seem prone to injury.
may have been? are you sure?
Time will tell.
If he ends up half as good as J Hird i'll be happy.
Stiffy_18
5 Jan 2005, 14:17
He can do the freakish things on the footy field & even though i didn't initially think that much of him i have since changed my mind & jumped on Stiffy 18s bandwagon.
One thing that could be a concern is that he does seem prone to injury.
What difference a year makes :p
This time last year I have been just about the strongest Hentschel supporter on this board. Macca23 and Jars456 have also been fans but probably not as vocal. Many called for his head this time last year and now many rate him highly.
Back to the topic. I have rated Hentschel ever since I saw him play a game for WWT reserves before he even got drafted by the crows. I still rate him but I do think that some people here making out to be the next Carey. Comparisons with James Hird are over the top. Hentschel can play and could very easily be 250 game player for us (if injury free) which would make him one of the club greats. A club great doesn't neccessarily mean a league great. He will be a VERY VERY good player make no mistake about that.
He does have a very good pair of hands. Not the best at the club but very reliable. Can turn on a 5 cent coin and has genuine football intelligence and goal sense.
McLeod23, I think you are very mistaken if you think Hentschel won't play KP. Maybe not this year but I am sure he will be a KPP by 2006 when he builds his body up a bit more and improves his aerobic capacity.
Markthirtytwo
5 Jan 2005, 15:33
I believe this year will be his breaking in year. I think he will play off the HBF as an attacking defender we need so badly.
Wayne's-World
5 Jan 2005, 18:19
Good sumary DT, and I think he will really develop on it this year.
3 extra things in his favour:-
1 - His natural ability is undoubted because his teammates rate him highly, and a player can't fool them.
2 - He has one of the smallest turning circles I've seen for a player his size.
3 - he is a genuine thinking footballer, and has that extra second of time as Capitalist has already stated.
Spot on - I was one who really doubted his mental ability more so than his footy abilities.
But he came on last year and the 3 points you have hilited nail it perfectly ;)
outback jack
5 Jan 2005, 18:52
I think as a club we tend to overhype any youngster who shows half a glimpse of talent, if that - see Brent Reilly and Ben Rutten especially.
While I was initially far from convinced about Trentschel's first few shaky displays in an Adelaide guernsey, in 2004 he showed more than enough signs to suggest he will be a highly valuable asset both forward and back in the years to come.
Has to build on the foundations laid last year.
yep your right, everyone gets excited with glimpses
Reilly played a handful of good games, looking flashy floating off half back and was hardly ever accountable, has to show that he can make it in the midfield.
Rutten is soooo overrated, probably because its the first time we have actually had someone with the right build in that position, not bassett who is about 3 inchs too short and 10 kgs too light. While rutten can match up body wise, he’s a little short, not especially quick and does show enough aggression I think. Still had quite a few goals kicked on him too, lots of the time early in small patches, might just be a lack of concentration though.
Hentschesl is the best off the tall young talent, but to be honest there’s not much there. Hes more of a floating forward, rather than our solution to CHF, and in contested marks hes doesnt seem to have a clean set of hands.
I reckon everyone gets excited because for years we've had no one coming through its always been the same people, like shirely, skipworth, doughty, begley, coming in and going out.
Is the hype justified?
Yes.
Superstar in 12-24 months.
The thing Trentschel has going for him is that he is going to be difficult to match up on. He is quick and agile for his size and can out manovre a bigger opponent....but in the same breathe he plays tall and is a good grab...too good for a like sized player.
So he is going to be difficult to find a match up for up fwd.
McLeod23
5 Jan 2005, 21:43
McLeod23, I think you are very mistaken if you think Hentschel won't play KP. Maybe not this year but I am sure he will be a KPP by 2006 when he builds his body up a bit more and improves his aerobic capacity.
When I say he 'probably won't play a key position', I certainly didn't mean that he couldn't.
I just meant that with Rutten and Kenny looking fairly set in the key defensive spots, and the likes of Watts, Gibson and Krueger looking more genuine KP prospects, I'm not sure we will need him as a permanent KP.
If those last three I mentioned don't come up to scratch then he will probably become one.
Regardless, he has the Potential to be a quality player.
maccas_no1
5 Jan 2005, 22:11
He will be a huge talent but must be managed properly, that is the key ;) has shown already he has the ability to play forward or back with success, a star in the making but it will take time ,I agree with stiffy, 2006 will when he will come to the fore ;)
No 1 Draft Pick
10 Feb 2006, 07:52
What are our expectations for this boy this year? Where will he play and what SHOULD he now be achieving. I am still to be convinced that he will go down as a Crows great but hope im wrong (for a change ;) _
With Perrie/K Mc G floating around the half forward line I think Trent will play close to goal. Surely he needs to kick at least 40-50 goals?? (assuming doesnt spend much time down back). Welsh kicked 50 for us in his first year at about the same age that Trent now is.
He is a player that needs to step up (along with Reilly) to improve us in 2006. The time for results is now for Trent H
Well, I've got faith in the lad. I don't think he'll take the competition by storm, but rather sort of sneak up on everyone the way Ken McGregor did. If he plays up forward as you suggest, a return of 40 to 50 goals seems a reasonable expectation on him.
SpringChoke
10 Feb 2006, 08:04
What are our expectations for this boy this year? Where will he play and what SHOULD he now be achieving. I am still to be convinced that he will go down as a Crows great but hope im wrong (for a change ;) _
With Perrie/K Mc G floating around the half forward line I think Trent will play close to goal. Surely he needs to kick at least 40-50 goals?? (assuming doesnt spend much time down back). Welsh kicked 50 for us in his first year at about the same age that Trent now is.
He is a player that needs to step up (along with Reilly) to improve us in 2006. The time for results is now for Trent H
I agree. If he shows the form he did after being dropped he could be in for a very good year.
Markthirtytwo
10 Feb 2006, 08:06
As he has apparently bulked up this year (who hasnt) perhaps it's time for him to take those pack marks to show all how good he is.
SpringChoke
10 Feb 2006, 08:25
As he has apparently bulked up this year (who hasnt) perhaps it's time for him to take those pack marks to show all how good he is.
I'm not sure he's that sort of player. I look at him more as a leading forward who can also use his extensive skills once the ball hits the ground.
macca23
10 Feb 2006, 08:36
I'm not sure he's that sort of player. I look at him more as a leading forward who can also use his extensive skills once the ball hits the ground.
I think you're on the money there Springy with your description.
I don't think pack marks are his real go either, but he is a clever contested mark in a one on one situation.
No 1 Draft Pick
10 Feb 2006, 08:45
I think you're on the money there Springy with your description.
I don't think pack marks are his real go either, but he is a clever contested mark in a one on one situation.
Expectations for him Macca in 2006?
I think you're on the money there Springy with your description.
I don't think pack marks are his real go either, but he is a clever contested mark in a one on one situation.
Agree with you & Springy in that Trent is more of a leading forward who can also hold his ground one on one.
He definitely has more all-round skills than most players & what i'm hoping this year is for Trent to take a game by the scruff of the neck & put in a 3 Brownlow vote performance which should then convince the guy himself that he has finally arrived.
GERVAIS
10 Feb 2006, 10:07
I would like to contribute to this thread from a Port perspective (but please remember I do watch 22 Crows games each year).
Do you overate him - probably - we all think our young guns are marginally better than they really are. I can recall thinking that Mark Harwood had the makings of a good player following one or two individual highlights early in his time with us.:eek:
In TH's case, he certainly has that "something". I think he has natural skill and athleticism, but in contrast to an earlier poster, I have always questioned his ability to think quickly. I'm not convinced yet on his football brain.
A bit like Burton and Jarred Poulton - there seems to be an inverse relationship between the amount of time they have and the wiseness of the choice they make. They seem to make the better decicion when under pressure, but give them the ball out in the open and they get confused and will stuff it up.
I think you will know if you overate him at the end of 2006. As said above, this must be his year of progression. We though the same of Thurstans and White in 2005 and they both let us down badly.
Still, if you don't want him I'm sure a trade could be organised with us (you can have Shattock)
I can see that TH has something special and given a full year I would expect 25-35 goals from him. Those calling for 50 from him are aiming a bit too high ( would be a bonus for sure)
The intriguing point for me and one of the legacies already of Neil Craig is
Spot on - I was one who really doubted his mental ability more so than his footy abilities.
But he came on last year
the ability to refocus players on the task ahead. ie Bock, Perrie and Rutten
Trent "Potential" Hentschel faces a big year, where we really will be looking for him to stand up and be counted.
To date, he's put in a few good performances. His only significant return last year (4 goals minimum) came against the Colliwobbles in Rnd 21, when he kicked 5.5. It is worth remembering that his opponents on that occasion were barely fielding a reserves side so badly was their list decimated by injuries - that said, you can only beat the team your opposition put on the park.
Hentschel is now aged 23 and has 42 senior games to his credit (21 of them in 2005). That means he's no longer a fringe player, but a regular in the senior side and as such should be expected to make regular and meaningful contributions.
This season is the one where he has to show us why he earned the nickname "Potential". With Adelaide's lack of younger KPPs, his position in the team is not under threat (the only possible threat coming from Roo's move to full forward).
Is he over-rated? Depends on how highly you rate him. I personally rate him on par with Perrie & McGregor, slightly behind Welsh. I rate them all as hard working, honest, but not particularly classy, 3rd tall forwards.
Many (including myself) would like to see him improve from a 3rd tall forward to someone who can lead our attack for the next 5-8 years.
Markthirtytwo
10 Feb 2006, 11:59
I'm not sure he's that sort of player. I look at him more as a leading forward who can also use his extensive skills once the ball hits the ground.
I should have added "a Tredders Pack" - one on one. :p
macca23
10 Feb 2006, 12:54
Expectations for him Macca in 2006?
To play up forward all year - barring injuries down back.
IMO he'll continue to play the floating forward role that he did last year and will become an even greater contributor at this level. Perhaps a 40 to 50 goal man this year.
When he first started at AFL level he used to be soundly criticized by many who wrote him off and wouldn't have a bar of him. Admittedly at that time, he looked more like a startled rabbit in a car's headlights than anything else, but that was due to a lack of self-belief rather than natural ability.
Since then he has improved each year as his self-belief and body strength have risen. Contrary to other expressed beliefs I see him as a thinking footballer who does have the footy smarts.
IMO he's nowhere near his maximum potential yet. He's getting there, but to achieve it would have to not only throw away the last pieces of self doubt, but also add a little arrogance.
They don't call him "potential" for nothing - he really does have the natural goodies.
Mitch Power
10 Feb 2006, 16:12
From an outsiders perspective, I don't think TH is big enough for a key position player no matter how much he has bulked up. I believe he and Welsh are very similar - both leading, strong marking full forward types who are not known for their pack marks. It will be an interesting fight for that one position.
birdmanptr
11 Feb 2006, 13:48
All he lacks his self belief once he gets that he will be all the hype plus more
outback jack
12 Feb 2006, 23:47
All he lacks his self belief once he gets that he will be all the hype plus more
self-belief is probably one of those things you've either got or you dont though really. Hard to see him becoming super confident all of a sudden. One other thing he doesnt quite have yet is that big pack mark, but not many do anyway. We should expect him to get to that B+ grade level, like a tredrea for instance.
ok.crows
13 Feb 2006, 14:33
From an outsiders perspective, I don't think TH is big enough for a key position player no matter how much he has bulked up. I believe he and Welsh are very similar - both leading, strong marking full forward types who are not known for their pack marks. It will be an interesting fight for that one position.
In 2005 TH didn't have the bulk he has now. Despite that lack of bulk, he played as the Crows "4th tall marking forward" ... and finished the season in the top 50 goalscorers with 26 goals in 2005.
That puts TH ahead of most other club's 4th forward, including Port's 4th best forward who was Stewart Dew with 19 goals.
In that light TH's spot in the side is under no threat at all, particularly since he has bulked up over this preseason.
PS: Trent even did better than Port Adelaide's second best goalscorer who was Brendon Lade with 24 goals in 2005.
crows98
13 Feb 2006, 14:47
self-belief is probably one of those things you've either got or you dont though really. Hard to see him becoming super confident all of a sudden. One other thing he doesnt quite have yet is that big pack mark, but not many do anyway. We should expect him to get to that B+ grade level, like a tredrea for instance.
If Trent Hentschel becomes half the player Warren Tredrea is then we will have one heck of a good player. They don’t give AA jumper out to ordinary player at CHF
self-belief is probably one of those things you've either got or you dont though really. Hard to see him becoming super confident all of a sudden. One other thing he doesnt quite have yet is that big pack mark, but not many do anyway. We should expect him to get to that B+ grade level, like a tredrea for instance.
In football, confidence is about finding your place. The mark in Perth in the last round game should be shown to him a few times to remind him that he can put his body on the line.
As a coach I would NOT send the runner out if he made a mistake but send the runner out when he did the right thing. Make him confident enough to know he will be backed if he tries something.
Out of curiosity who would you prefer out of Trent or Fergus (this year and beyond) in your team? Both have plenty to offer, Trent has more runs on the board and both have miles of that great thing, "potential".
crows98
13 Feb 2006, 14:54
Out of curiosity who would you prefer out of Trent or Fergus (this year and beyond) in your team? Both have plenty to offer, Trent has more runs on the board and both have miles of that great thing, "potential".
Ask your self the same question between Nick Stevens and Kane Cornes and answer it with out bias, anger or favouritism getting in the way.
Not having a shot at you, but there similarities is there.
Out of curiosity who would you prefer out of Trent or Fergus (this year and beyond) in your team? Both have plenty to offer, Trent has more runs on the board and both have miles of that great thing, "potential".
I would still want Trent, I would also hope Fergus was pushing for a spot. Competition makes people try harder, so win win
Capitalist
13 Feb 2006, 15:36
I would still want Trent, I would also hope Fergus was pushing for a spot. Competition makes people try harder, so win win
I reckon i'll answer this one after Fergus has played 42 games
Also depends on how good the player we got in exchange for him goes
topjars
13 Feb 2006, 17:45
Ive heard big wraps on Trent from the coaching staff which is enough for me.
What I like about him is that he does seem to sum things up pretty quickly when he has got the ball.
Stiffy_18
13 Feb 2006, 18:54
self-belief is probably one of those things you've either got or you dont though really. Hard to see him becoming super confident all of a sudden. One other thing he doesnt quite have yet is that big pack mark, but not many do anyway. We should expect him to get to that B+ grade level, like a tredrea for instance.
Ian Perrie :confused:
No 1 Draft Pick
14 Feb 2006, 08:07
Ian Perrie :confused:
Stiffy as a big fan of Trents what are your expectations for this coming year?Do you agree he needs to 'come of age' and kick 40 plus (if played close to goal for most of the year). He is one of the regulars who can really improve IMO (along with Reilly)
outback jack
14 Feb 2006, 14:13
Ian Perrie :confused:
you're talking more about confidence which can go up and down all the time and of course Perrie's went down the way ayres treated him. Perrie isnt exactly a top player either. Still think that the top players believe they belong. Not sure if this is a issue with trent anyway, if hes quiet off field not sure that really matters. Its more the aggression that isnt quite there yet. Until his body develops completely we have to wait and see if it changes a bit like bock did when he filled out.:)
outback jack
14 Feb 2006, 14:19
In football, confidence is about finding your place. The mark in Perth in the last round game should be shown to him a few times to remind him that he can put his body on the line.
As a coach I would NOT send the runner out if he made a mistake but send the runner out when he did the right thing. Make him confident enough to know he will be backed if he tries something.
Need to put him at CHF soon too, this yr or next, instead of this third tall option so he can show what he can do.
outback jack
14 Feb 2006, 14:25
If Trent Hentschel becomes half the player Warren Tredrea is then we will have one heck of a good player. They don’t give AA jumper out to ordinary player at CHF
for appearance sake, we'll him ordinary. He really didnt have alot of competition for that CHF spot in those yrs and had A grade delivery at the same time. Its fair to say that tredders was average and inefficient initially, had a couple of really good yrs where he was damaging in front of goal and then the inefficiently crept back in and now has moved back to his more favored wingman role. First time he had a reasonable contest for AA CHF selection in 05 he lost the spot. Also, ppl forget how poor skill wise he was not so long ago. Trent would be infront of him if anything that area.
Stiffy_18
14 Feb 2006, 18:05
Stiffy as a big fan of Trents what are your expectations for this coming year?Do you agree he needs to 'come of age' and kick 40 plus (if played close to goal for most of the year). He is one of the regulars who can really improve IMO (along with Reilly)
I hate putting a number of goals as an expectation for any player especially in this case. I honestly can't say with any certainty what position Hentschel will play this year. Last year he was more of a "mr. fix it" as he played all over the joint.
I expect him to step up and be more consistent and a bit more damaging no matter where he plays.
Crow-mo
14 Feb 2006, 19:25
I hate putting a number of goals as an expectation for any player especially in this case. I honestly can't say with any certainty what position Hentschel will play this year. Last year he was more of a "mr. fix it" as he played all over the joint.
I expect him to step up and be more consistent and a bit more damaging no matter where he plays.
Too kind stiffy.
If he's fit, we should expect 2 goals a game.
Stiffy_18
14 Feb 2006, 19:43
Too kind stiffy.
If he's fit, we should expect 2 goals a game.
What if he is played as a HBF, then as a wingman and a forward in ine single game. Its been kown to happen on occassions last year.
Crow-mo
14 Feb 2006, 20:48
What if he is played as a HBF, then as a wingman and a forward in ine single game. Its been kown to happen on occassions last year.
on average. if he's fit and firing he won't be too far away from goal.
stinger05
14 Feb 2006, 20:50
No you dont Trent will be a good player this year and a gun in the seasons to come. Just watch the Prelim he has a good football brain.
Kane McGoodwin
15 Feb 2006, 16:32
Too kind stiffy.
If he's fit, we should expect 2 goals a game.
I agree. Hentschel from in the later part of last year is what we should expect from him in 2006.