View Full Version : Tivendale
Clearly had one of his worst games ever today. Only 4 touches. Not good enough for someone who should get 20 kicks each week. Would not be surprised if he went for a trip up Sydney road next week.
madtiger2005
3 Apr 2005, 21:35
yeah, he's down on confidence. He always seems to run into trouble. He's not very good in crowded situations. He usually picks the ball up when it's obvious he will get tackled. He's very good as a receiver though. Give him a run for Coburg as well as Chaffey.
Balthazaar
3 Apr 2005, 21:36
He was shocking.
Tivendale, Chaffey and Jackson for Raines, Roach and Moore would be my changes for the week.
He still has a chance, but the best thing for him and the team is to get some confidence back at Coburg. Right now we can't afford to carry someone so out of touch in the seniors.
madtiger2005
3 Apr 2005, 21:39
We just dropped Roach because he isn't quite ready, why would we play him next week? I would give Meyer a try this week because his class stands out in the 2nds. Raines and Meyer to come in for Tivva and Chaff. I'd love to see Tambling in although he's been injured
Roach played pretty well according to all reports, so he should be rewarded for his efforts. Was dropped after only one bad game so he should be brought back in after one good game.
Bentleigh
3 Apr 2005, 21:43
If it were up to me:
OUT:
Jackson
Tivendale
Chaffey
IN:
Moore
Roach*
Meyer/Gilmour/Polo/Raines
*Roach was in Coburgs best. Id player who ever stands up for Coburg next week and not Tambling untill he is 100%
RodneyDangerfield
3 Apr 2005, 21:46
He looked a million bucks in the Brisbane practice game. Funny game.
Truetiger
3 Apr 2005, 21:49
On 1 minute later ball on the southern stand wing tackled Holding the ball bloody tivendale done it again. I have said for weeks he is a dud should not of played last week or 2day needs a few weeks off.
i really dont want to see meyer in the 22 for a lil while yet. he's size worries me. but yes his body can take a lot for his size. up to TW if he thinks he's ready. id probs pefer kelvin moore to be given a crack.
RodneyDangerfield
3 Apr 2005, 21:54
i really dont want to see meyer in the 22 for a lil while yet. he's size worries me. but yes his body can take a lot for his size. up to TW if he thinks he's ready. id probs pefer kelvin moore to be given a crack.Thats a good call. You can really ******** them up if they aren't ready.
Bentleigh
3 Apr 2005, 21:54
i really dont want to see meyer in the 22 for a lil while yet. he's size worries me. but yes his body can take a lot for his size. up to TW if he thinks he's ready. id probs pefer kelvin moore to be given a crack.
If Farren Ray, Monfries, Thurgood can play AFL I wouldnt mind seeing Meyer getting a game if form warrents it.
Can people stop naming Moore to come into the side, he's done nothing to warrant selection over the preseason and is still trying to get some scar tissue in his foot to settle.
Wallace has made it clear that you need to earn your spot in the side, so at this point in time Moore shouldn't be considered.
Bulldogs aren't the biggest side going around, so theres no reason a Meyer or Gilmour couldn't get a call up. According to the Coburg site Roach was best for us so should get a go in place of Tivendale on the wing.
madtiger2005
3 Apr 2005, 22:44
damn i wish tambling was ready. him and deledio would be exciting. We must bring in Raines I believe.
Al Bundy
3 Apr 2005, 23:05
With the years the club has persisted with him, he should be doing alot more.
I use to really like him as a player but RFC can no longer accept passengers in its side.
This will be his last year at the club. He can't cut it when the pressure is on.
Sorry to say, but it will be ; "Thanks for the memories..."
Backpocket
4 Apr 2005, 05:18
I would like to see Tivendale on the forward line.....he is not a wingman nor a running player, too slow and one dimensional...has a raking long kick but shocking short pass disposal.
Put him around the arc of the fifty and i think he would be more suited. :)
Truetiger
4 Apr 2005, 09:58
Press Conference......
Terrys words: When asked
Were do you think Greg Tivendale is at
Answer:
" Good Question" Greg over the last few months has shown that he is not in the best 18 players. Then went on to say no one is safe when it comes to selection. All you have to do is look at Hall has not been dropped for 6-12months. Greg Tivendale knows what he has to do and he is working on it. So really its up2 greg what he wants to do seniors or seconds haha
From that I feel he is a good chance to get the arse this week.
itsintheblood
4 Apr 2005, 10:24
Clearly had one of his worst games ever today. Only 4 touches. Not good enough for someone who should get 20 kicks each week. Would not be surprised if he went for a trip up Sydney road next week.
Opposition has him worked out. Has no right foot and a heart the size of a peanut. Will be shown the door. Wallace has him in his sights. Mediocre footballer.
tiger of old
4 Apr 2005, 10:49
Has pace.the Pies will give up their 1st rnd pick for him :D
itsintheblood
4 Apr 2005, 11:00
Has pace.the Pies will give up their 1st rnd pick for him :D
There isnt one player on the collingwood list i would be interested in right now. Perhaps tarrant but thats about it. They have some dark dark days ahead. And the funny thing is buckley, at 33 years of age, believes he can come back and be just as good as he was at 25. Just goes to show they live in fantasy land at lexus.
roo_stew
4 Apr 2005, 11:19
Being a Taswegian its interesting to see a few of you guys mention Gilmour. It has been tough here getting a handle on how he is developing. He showed a lotta promise playign VFL here. Can anyone update me?
Punt_Road_Roar
4 Apr 2005, 12:19
Press Conference......
Terrys words: When asked
Were do you think Greg Tivendale is at
Answer:
" Good Question" Greg over the last few months has shown that he is not in the best 18 players. Then went on to say no one is safe when it comes to selection. All you have to do is look at Hall has not been dropped for 6-12months. Greg Tivendale knows what he has to do and he is working on it. So really its up2 greg what he wants to do seniors or seconds haha
From that I feel he is a good chance to get the arse this week.
you forgot the bit where he continued
"He struggled last week and was rightly so coming off the bench today, but I thought when he was on he did some good things and did enough when he was on"
dont let a good story get in the way of the facts now. :D
IMO he is borderline 22, considering if Sugar Kane overcomes his heel injury as to whether Tivendale keeps his spot when a fit Tambling returns.
Bentleigh
4 Apr 2005, 12:35
Press Conference......
Terrys words: When asked
Were do you think Greg Tivendale is at
Answer:
" Good Question" Greg over the last few months has shown that he is not in the best 18 players. Then went on to say no one is safe when it comes to selection. All you have to do is look at Hall has not been dropped for 6-12months. Greg Tivendale knows what he has to do and he is working on it. So really its up2 greg what he wants to do seniors or seconds haha
From that I feel he is a good chance to get the arse this week.
Good to see the likes of Hall, Chaffy & Tiv are not just being fooked off but are giving the chance to prove them selfs.
That said we may as well blookd kids; Raines, Roach, Meyer, etc.
Being a Taswegian its interesting to see a few of you guys mention Gilmour. It has been tough here getting a handle on how he is developing. He showed a lotta promise playign VFL here. Can anyone update me?
Personally ive got high hopes for Gilmour. With the influx of talented kids comming into the club and Jackson, Hartigan, Raines and Roach showing abit you forget about Gilmour. However was taken first round and just made the draft cut off (1 day?) so to be fair its as if this is his season - with the bonus of 2 preseasons.
He is not even 19 untill later on this year so but has shown some good signs at Coburg. Lets hope he continues his development.
Has no right foot
Even Spud in the commentary box for MMM said his right foot was only there for balance.
cairo tiger
4 Apr 2005, 19:34
simple he is gone at the end of the year
tropicaltiger
6 Apr 2005, 02:03
Greg Tivendale is a very good player, he will come good soon
Send him to Fitzroy street,StKilda.
Bentleigh
6 Apr 2005, 02:13
is sh#t
The man has a way with words.
Id agree however.
tigertime
6 Apr 2005, 14:57
I reckon most people who have bagged Tivendale will be singing a very different tune comes seasons end.
How quickly we forget what an important player he was to the RFC.
You will remember soon enough. If he was 28, had no skills, pace and was ready for retirement. Your arguments would make sense. (aka chaffey)
But the simple fact is spudley has driven him out of form and it will take some time for him to overcome this.
Bentleigh
6 Apr 2005, 14:59
I reckon most people who have bagged Tivendale will be singing a very different tune comes seasons end.
How quickly we forget what an important player he was to the RFC.
You will remember soon enough. If he was 28, had no skills, pace and was ready for retirement. Your arguments would make sense. (aka chaffey)
But the simple fact is spudley has driven him out of form and it will take some time for him to overcome this.
Loverly long left foot kick which has average pace.
Soft as butter and doesnt have much else going for him.
Can only play wing/flanks - albet not well.
tigertime
6 Apr 2005, 16:05
He cut the lions up in the 2001 final.
I dont recall too many other richmond players stepping up to the plate.
Loverly long left foot kick which has average pace.
Soft as butter and doesnt have much else going for him.
Can only play wing/flanks - albet not well.
Harvey Leadpipe
6 Apr 2005, 16:13
He cut the lions up in the 2001 final.
I dont recall too many other richmond players stepping up to the plate.
You're going back over 3 years now. In over 3 years you could go back and pick out most players that have had at least 1 good game. There's no doubt about it, he's on his last legs. Needs to show something very soon.
I reckon most people who have bagged Tivendale will be singing a very different tune comes seasons end.
How quickly we forget what an important player he was to the RFC.
You will remember soon enough. If he was 28, had no skills, pace and was ready for retirement. Your arguments would make sense. (aka chaffey)
But the simple fact is spudley has driven him out of form and it will take some time for him to overcome this.
Nearly his whole career was played under Spud. And now you are telling us that Frawley has driven the form out of him?
You then mention 2001 where he played great agaisnt Brisbane, wasn't spud coaching then?
lmfaooooo@how important he has been to us. What rubbish. He has had some moments, no doubt, but the overriding contribution of Greg Tivendale to the RFC has been one of resounding mediocrity. Has had a couple of seasons where he has been above average, a couple where he has been below average and a few more that have been average.
Bentleigh
6 Apr 2005, 16:58
He cut the lions up in the 2001 final.
I dont recall too many other richmond players stepping up to the plate.
3/4 years ago Gaspar/Chaffy/Kellaway/Campbell and co. were amounst the leagues best players.
tigertime
6 Apr 2005, 17:08
As you will note, the big difference between Tivendale and these players is that he is much younger.
As I stated, if he as old as Campbell, clearly you wouldnt consider persisting with him.
As you well know John, Frawley took his time depleting our list. The results of his hard work didnt begin until 2002 and will still be felt well into 2005.
3/4 years ago Gaspar/Chaffy/Kellaway/Campbell and co. were amounst the leagues best players.
Bentleigh
6 Apr 2005, 17:18
As you will note, the big difference between Tivendale and these players is that he is much younger.
As I stated, if he as old as Campbell, clearly you wouldnt consider persisting with him.
As you well know John, Frawley took his time depleting our list. The results of his hard work didnt begin until 2002 and will still be felt well into 2005.
I dont consider persisting with a below average, mid age AFL player when we a plethora of potential players which will be an upgrade of him and are half a dozen years younger.
As you well know John, Frawley took his time depleting our list. The results of his hard work didnt begin until 2002 and will still be felt well into 2005.
His best years were 2002 and 2003 mate, deep into the spud abyss.
http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/G/Greg_Tivendale.html
tigertime
6 Apr 2005, 17:41
Tivendale hasnt reached his potential. Anymore than Richo has reached his potential.
It was a credit to Tiva's that he had ok years in 2002 - 2003.
Correct me if I am wrong, but he was used exclusively in the backline last year. Defence isnt a natural feature of his game and this certainly hurt him more than anything else. He will be a strong contributor when he runs forward of the centre. This is where he plays his best football.
The younger players are at least a couple of years off from forming a decent team. Getting rid of Tivendale will not help this process.
His best years were 2002 and 2003 mate, deep into the spud abyss.
http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/G/Greg_Tivendale.html
Tivendale hasnt reached his potential. Anymore than Richo has reached his potential.
It was a credit to Tiva's that he had ok years in 2002 - 2003.
Correct me if I am wrong, but he was used exclusively in the backline last year. Defence isnt a natural feature of his game and this certainly hurt him more than anything else. He will be a strong contributor when he runs forward of the centre. This is where he plays his best football.
The younger players are at least a couple of years off from forming a decent team. Getting rid of Tivendale will not help this process.
I think Tivendale was moved to half back about mid-way through last year after he suffered a bit of a form slump (due mainly to other teams figuring him out and disallowing him to get onto his left side) whilst playing on the wing. His kicking in from full back was pretty good I thought but he isn't a natural backline player.
The potential tag doesn't wash with me. He is 26 years old and if he hasn't shown us what he's made of by now he never will.
I'd give him two or three more weeks to get his schit together otherwise and if he can't he can spend a good month in the 'burg.
On 2001 and early 2003 when we were winning more games than we lost, Gaspar, AK, Chaffey and Tivendale were all playing good footy. Tivendale possibly has the most potential out of that lot to get back to that kind of form, but this relies on a number of things:
Other teams have worked him out and coral him onto his right side every time. He needs to work out a way to overcome this.
He is a receiver/ball carrier/finisher type. Nothing wrong with this, one or two of these types in a team can put the icing on the cake. But these types don't tend to do well in bottom teams where you spend most of the time defending. Unlikely at this stage of his career that he will suddenly start winning lots of his own ball, so his improvement will be linked in part to improvement in the team.
Because of 1 and 2, his confidence is shot. When he gets the ball he seems full of indecision because he doesn't have the confidence to take on the opposition. You can tell just by watching him play he is scared of making a mistake. Never underestimate the effect confidence has on a player.
He needs to go back to Coburg for a few weeks to get some kicks to build up his confidence. This isn't without a risk for him though. We've had plenty of players (James, Keays, Plapp, maybe Houlihan) who dominated the 2nds but weren't good enough for the 1sts. The bad habits of these types can be magnified in the 2nds because they can run around as they please. If Tivendale and the coaching staff can't work out a way around point 1 between them, he is gone. But the first step is to build up his confidence and I think the best place for that is Coburg.
What is the likelihood of him developing a right foot? That's the only way around Crum's point 1 that I see.
Don't like his chances at this stage of his career.
That's pretty much the nub of it JohnF. The other way is to try and get him in to space, which other teams won't willingly allow. (Maybe one day we'll rediscover the lost art of shepharding which would help.) But he's not a player you would build a gameplan around. He's one that needs to fit in with the existing plan.
Truetiger
6 Apr 2005, 20:31
I reckon most people who have bagged Tivendale will be singing a very different tune comes seasons end.
How quickly we forget what an important player he was to the RFC.
You will remember soon enough. If he was 28, had no skills, pace and was ready for retirement. Your arguments would make sense. (aka chaffey)
But the simple fact is spudley has driven him out of form and it will take some time for him to overcome this.
Saying Tivendale is going to be good come seasons end if thats the case you could get a game with the Brisbane lions lol it just wont happen
cairo tiger
6 Apr 2005, 20:37
he will not magically improve this year, he has shown what he can do play an occassional one good game in 7 with some nice flashes, this player is not going totake us tot he next level but neither is chaffey, a kellaway, gee i could go on, the reason why we are where we are is because of players like these
Rodgerramjet
6 Apr 2005, 22:53
Tivendale needs to improve quite a bit, yes his confidence is shot but you could say that about 90% of our list so it really isn't an excuse for the boy.
I've read quite a few arguments here about how good he has been in the past and how bad he has been in the past and realistically both arguments are irrelevant. What is important is what he does right now under Wallace, if he doesn't cut the mustard then I'm afraid it's Coburg for Tivendale and it will be up to him to get his act together enough for the Coaches to belive he deserves a spot in the seniors ( It wont be because he had a good season in 2001).
If he does get dropped and doesn't play well enough at Coburg to warrant selection back in the senior side then I'm afraid it's either a delisting for him or at best a trade to another club. For me he needs to improve quite a bit to warrant remaining on our list, but he has 20 weeks to do something, for his sake he needs too.
tigertime
7 Apr 2005, 10:24
The reason we are where we are is because of bad coaching and bad recruiting.
We are 2 years into the cycle as Wallace puts it.
Tivendale is one player that we can salvage from the wreck. He doesnt have to magically improve. He just needs to try. You may have missed it, but thats what he did when he came on last week. TW was pretty clear on that.
he will not magically improve this year, he has shown what he can do play an occassional one good game in 7 with some nice flashes, this player is not going totake us tot he next level but neither is chaffey, a kellaway, gee i could go on, the reason why we are where we are is because of players like these
So having a player play out fo position isnt a concern to most of you lot??
Lets play Richo in the back line for the next 3 months and if he doesnt fire lets sack him.
We may as well play Johnson in the forward pocket and if he cant cut it, lets sack him too.
Tivers problem is ever since Cameron retired there hasnt been anyone else with the ability to hit targets from kick out so he has been filling that role. But then you cant have a player that kicks out run to h/f, wing and play in his rightful position, the game is too fast for that. He needs to stay in defence. Well Tivers is not a defender simple.
But then again all you coaches out there know it all.
Who cares if he has only a left foot, its better than most Tiger players two feet!
And the bit about "they have found him out that he only has a left" is the biggest load of ********e I have heard. Obviously this statement comes from non-participants of footy or couch potatoes.
Get a grip people.
Bentleigh
7 Apr 2005, 12:40
Alot of talk about not being able to hit targets out of the backline.
Even mor reason Bowden needs to stay on a half back flank.
RodneyDangerfield
7 Apr 2005, 13:29
Alot of talk about not being able to hit targets out of the backline.
Even mor reason Bowden needs to stay on a half back flank.So True Bentleigh. Newman shows some promise in this area also.
Alot of talk about not being able to hit targets out of the backline.
Even mor reason Bowden needs to stay on a half back flank.
The only problem with Bowden on HBF is that he has gone back to his handball, handball, handball bad habit. He runs at a bloke, draws the man, then gives off a hospital handball. He seemed to finally have that out of his system last year but he has gone back to running out of the backline carrying the ball in the ready-to-handball position.
tigertime
7 Apr 2005, 14:57
They want to carry the ball more this year weaver and break lines. So blaming Bowden for following the team plan doesnt work for me. If the whole backline was running, we would be a far better side.
Ares, great post. Clearly someone who understands football. Your in a vast minority here.
The only problem with Bowden on HBF is that he has gone back to his handball, handball, handball bad habit. He runs at a bloke, draws the man, then gives off a hospital handball. He seemed to finally have that out of his system last year but he has gone back to running out of the backline carrying the ball in the ready-to-handball position.
They want to carry the ball more this year weaver and break lines. So blaming Bowden for following the team plan doesnt work for me. If the whole backline was running, we would be a far better side.
That's what Richo said the other night when he was on 'On the Couch', the guys were meant to run and carry, and only kick when they are past the centre.
RodneyDangerfield
7 Apr 2005, 15:12
It's hard to run forward in numbers when you are constantly getting smashed at the stoppages.
Krakustar
7 Apr 2005, 15:16
Tivers problem is ever since Cameron retired there hasnt been anyone else with the ability to hit targets from kick out so he has been filling that role. But then you cant have a player that kicks out run to h/f, wing and play in his rightful position, the game is too fast for that. He needs to stay in defence. Well Tivers is not a defender simple.
This argument would be a lot more convincing if Tivers was actually hitting targets. This year (I know its only 2 weeks old) he ahs not hit targets and often turns the ball over. Leon Cameron he aint.
tigertime
7 Apr 2005, 16:27
He had 15 mins last game krak. In that time he beat his opponent to the ball on every occasion that I saw. He put his body on the line and got creamed. He featured in one goal in the last quarter.
As you say, give him a couple of weeks.
This argument would be a lot more convincing if Tivers was actually hitting targets. This year (I know its only 2 weeks old) he ahs not hit targets and often turns the ball over. Leon Cameron he aint.
I think Tivendale has had an armchair ride for years. Whilst spud was coaching (trying to coach) they always rotated 8-10 players in and out of the side. A lot of these players were younger guys pinch hitting at half forward or a pocket and only had small chances to prove themselves. Yet these changes didnt bring any result, and in my opinion the likes of tivendale, chaffey, Hall etc.
These blokes got game after game and kept doing the same stupid things week in wk out. If plough can pi$$ a few of them off and get these younger types backing their ability and skills they will start heading in the right direction.
BTW, Hyde is a hack, has no vision, average skills and wont win them finals. Just another battler who tries hard. WOOOOOHOOOOOOOO
Bentleigh
7 Apr 2005, 19:18
The only problem with Bowden on HBF is that he has gone back to his handball, handball, handball bad habit. He runs at a bloke, draws the man, then gives off a hospital handball. He seemed to finally have that out of his system last year but he has gone back to running out of the backline carrying the ball in the ready-to-handball position.
Its a slight problem.
He does however have a beuitful kick and hits alot of targets comming out of the backline.
Both Newman and Hartigan and even Jacko do look promising.
BTW, Hyde is a hack, has no vision, average skills and wont win them finals. Just another battler who tries hard. WOOOOOHOOOOOOOO
I dunno if your a retard or trying to be funny but Hyde has been pretty solid for mine.
yeah, he's down on confidence. He always seems to run into trouble. He's not very good in crowded situations. He usually picks the ball up when it's obvious he will get tackled. He's very good as a receiver though. Give him a run for Coburg as well as Chaffey.
Chaffey - No.
Tivendale maybe. He just needs confidence and game time. I think he should be played on a HFF so he can kick some goals from 50 and deliver it very well to Richo and co.
madtiger2005
7 Apr 2005, 20:20
I've been saying all along he should play on the left foward flank. Most times he would deliver rippers to the forwards or he would kick great long goals. He probably needs a run in coburg to bouce back like Bowden did last year.
Bentleigh
7 Apr 2005, 22:59
I've been saying all along he should play on the left foward flank. Most times he would deliver rippers to the forwards or he would kick great long goals. He probably needs a run in coburg to bouce back like Bowden did last year.
Forward flankers in the modern era need to be able to be able to get their own ball.
Davis of Syney, Nathen Brown, Adam Yze, Luke Power etc.
Im doubtful Tiv is good enough. IT'd be better to blood a Gilmour, Meyer, Raines etc.
tigertime
8 Apr 2005, 10:45
Hey Bentleigh,
Thats not how you argue your point mate. Junkie made some valid points, irrespective of what you think. If you disagree, state your view, but dont bag other richmond supporters (with the exception of johnf and oxx, both these fu*kers deserve what they get).
Hyde & Johnson have been very ordinary in the middle of the ground. We statistically have the worst clearances in the league. - Compelling Evidence.
Thats not to say both of those players cant play the role of receivers. But they certainly dont win their own ball enough and dispose of it well enough to play in the midfield.
Its a slight problem.
I dunno if your a retard or trying to be funny but Hyde has been pretty solid for mine.