Devils stick by Armstrong over fan complaints

[Kingpin]

The Mercury 22nd April 2005 - Club re-affirms its faith in Armstrong
By David Stockdale

The impassioned voice of Devils coach Mathew Armstrong yesterday fell silent over the controversy of him using foul language in the coach's box against Port Melbourne last Saturday.
Armstrong gave a solemn "no comment'' when asked at a media conference about the accusations in a letter to The Mercury by a group of nine Devils' supporters who were at the game at Teac Oval.
But Devils' president and former Sandy Bay player Guy Abel was quick to jump to Armstrong's defence against the charges by the nine, led by Stephen Gillard, who had called for the coach to be sacked.
"All I can tell you is that Mathew Armstrong has a job at this football club coaching as long as he wants,'' Abel said.
That's the first part of the answer.
"The second is if people who are defined as supporters want to air their grievances against the football club in the public arena through the paper that's a matter for them.''
Abel said if supporters wanted to make a complaint about any sector of the club they were free to do so and the avenues for that were through him and the members of the board or through AFL Tasmania.
Abel agreed that, unlike AFL grounds, VFL venues didn't have the same degree of insularity and comfort for coaches.
"At TEAC Oval the window was open because it can get very hot in the coaches' boxes,'' Abel said. "Certainly when we played Geelong a couple of weeks ago it was here at North Hobart and the door was open.''
As for foul language, he didn't know if Armstrong's was any better or worse than other coaches.
"He's under intense pressure to get results and there's a lot of money coming into the club via Wrest Point [Hotel-Casino] and the like, so I think people need to understand he has a job which brings with it significant pressures on a weekly basis.
"People who watch VFL football must appreciate there are going to be occasions where coaches use expletives not in an abusive way but in poorly expressing themselves . . .''
He denied a claim in which Gillard said: "There were frequent tirades of the most vile language being shouted over the phone to his [Armstrong's] runners.''
"I can tell you I've spoken to the clubs's runners [Gene Phair and Richard Brown] and can say there was never any abuse of any of the runners, so I don't know where that information came from,'' Abel said.

Can't stand Armstrong, can't stand the Devils either, but the complainants must be of the snotty, chardonnay sipping private school ilk that attatches itself to the Devils to be "seen with winners".
Obviously these poofters have never attended any real football matches before, or if they have, have never been out from behind the plate glass windows in the corporate box. :rolleyes:
What a load of tosh.

[MRobbo]

Are the local media just trying to fire the devils up before the Alec Campbell Cup game aginst Frankston at Bellerive on Sunday?

I am looking forward to travelling down to Hobart on Sunday for the game.

[The Big H]

I'm also not a fan of Armstrong, but knowing some Devil and ex Devil players they actually rate him pretty highly as a coach. Beat up story, however a similar complaint was made several years ago by the patrick corperation when thay were sponsoring the Devils and their corperate box was next to the coaches box.

Tigers 1945, what is your beef with the devils? As a young player i would have loved to have had the structure and chance to play in the mariners and the devils.

[Kingpin]

Are the local media just trying to fire the devils up before the Alec Campbell Cup game aginst Frankston at Bellerive on Sunday?

I am looking forward to travelling down to Hobart on Sunday for the game.

No. It was nine bandwagoners who went to watch the Devils at Port Melbourne last weekend who wrote to the Mercury and AFL Tasmania calling for Whinestrong to be sacked as Devils coach because of his bad language in the coaches box at TEAC Oval.

These gits have obviously never been near a real game of football in thier lives, I remember in the TFL days when you could here coaches like Peter Hudson and Mark Browning to name a few, let fly with some enormous outbursts of language in the huddles or in the rooms.

But, that's what happens when you take the working-class people aspect away from football at the expense of the private school types who form the majority of Devils supporters.

This is one of a number of examples of that.

[Kingpin]

I'm also not a fan of Armstrong, but knowing some Devil and ex Devil players they actually rate him pretty highly as a coach. Beat up story, however a similar complaint was made several years ago by the patrick corperation when thay were sponsoring the Devils and their corperate box was next to the coaches box.
Also there was the little matter of his on-air slip at Frankston live on the ABC once. It happens, they should bleep it out.

Tigers 1945, what is your beef with the devils? As a young player i would have loved to have had the structure and chance to play in the mariners and the devils.
Where would you like me to start?
AFL Tasmania takes all the money and resources that should be going to developing the entire code of Australian Rules Football in this state and hand it to the Devils.
Leagues are falling over left, right and centre. Clubs are going likewise, being forced to prostitute themselves out to survive, fans are increasingly walking away from attending local football, while AFL Tasmania looks the other way.

It's all well and good to have programs for elite players, but when there is nothing underneath, what's the point?
In years to come we'll have to be importing players to play for Tasmania, because there won't be a decent quota left playing here, not to mention the pathetic standard of current regional football.
The Southern Football League is an absolute load of drivel, the NTFL is a better standard, but it's still lopsided.
Armstrong is always in the paper whining about having to play practice matches against pathetic stadard local sides - and he's right.
Instead of AFL Tasmania giving the Devils absolutely everything, they should be properly funding the competitions underneath, to do something about that poor standard.

And lastly, I really CANNOT stand Devils and AFL Tasmania people getting in the media telling us all that slogan "Tassie Devils - there your team".
They are NOT my team. My team used to wear Black & Gold and be called the Tigers and represented the inner-city for over 50 years in the TFL.
They do not exist anymore, and I no longer follow clubs here.
I will never become a Devil bandwagoner.

[The Doctor '73]

I couldn't agree more with Tigers 1945, the amount of money that they pump into the Devils is absolutely ridiculous considering the lack of money and support that the local competitions get.

I also agree in the point that its all well and good to have things for the elite but they are ruining the local competitions to provide for this. Take the Australian cricket side as an example Even though they the domestic state competition isn’t a winner in regards to raising a load of revenue the ACB pumps money into it to make it the e best domestic competition in the world and its this that provides the competition for the current playing group and breeds good new players to take their place. The West Indies had a great side in the 80s but look what happened when all those players retired there were just no new good players to take their place.

The SFL and The NTFL are no where near up to the standard they once were, but how the hell is it suppose to improve if you’ve got what’s happening now going on.
Matthew Armstrong consitantly bags out the standard of competition to the local media (way to get the public interested), but the only way that can improve is for the clubs to start generating money and be able to aquire the services of good mainland players and localplayers who go bush searching for good money, to not only boost the playing ranks but to also install new ideas for clubs and boost excitement for local crowds.

But when no money is given to clubs, the clubs traditional media avenues via the paper tv and radio is completely taken up by the devils (or if they do get a mention its only to how poor the standard is), traditional sponsors of local clubs have been headhunted by the devils and when the people in charge of the competition are more worried about another “club” than doing their job running a football competition its nearly impossible.

On the SFL’s own webpage there is usually more articles written about the devils. Do you think they return the favour by having something about the SFL on the Devils webpage or on the football Tasmania website? Of course not. Every week in the SFL football program you will get articles written on the devils player profils etc but do you think they would promote the SFL or the NTFL in their media outlets?

I wouldn’t be so annoyed but its strictly a one way thing, the Devils always take but give nothing back to the local competitions. Whilst you could say that they let local sides play before them and that’s good exposure to the local clubs you also have to remember that I would guess 50%+ of the current Devils supporters used to follow local clubs and by follow I mean actualy support by attending matches. They know that there is only a limited number of people in Tasmania that will go and support football that isn’t the AFL and they would more than be happy to try and entice a more of the few remaining supporters of local clubs to follow them instead by showing off their brand of football.

As their jobs as heads of Tasmanian Football you would think they would try and enocourage football to the public instead of always canning it to the media. It almost seems that they are trying to make the Devils and the VFL competition seem better than they actually are by trying to make the local competitions sound so terrible to anybody who will listen, the thing is because they get ALL the media then that’s all the public ever hears. Do you ever hear them mention when the Devils are playing in Melbourne that there supporters should support the local football? The SFL is a separate competetion it should try and compete against the Devils for sponsors/supporters etc but the people in charge of the SFL do not even want to try, as there jobs are tied to football tasmania who only care about our “elite team”, and are scared to do anything without Devil approval first.

The devils sound like a good idea but its helped to kill football in Tasmania as the people in charge are so narrow minded they can’t see the bigger picture of what’s actually happening.

[Tim_in_Philly]

I think you guys are being unreasonable. Tasmanian football was going downhill fast in the nineties. I remember going to watch North Hobart play Burnie at NH in about 1999 and there were 200 people there. The SWL fell over because the clubs were broke and the local teams got no media coverage when up against saturation AFL on TV and newspapers.

The Devils have grown out of the ashes of local football and at least now there is some local content in the newspapers again even if it mainly Devils related. All this despite the Devils playing in a competition they can never win. I'm back in Tassie for this weekend and will go to the game on Sunday because the Devils are the best quality football we will see in Hobart.

You say clubs and leagues are falling over left, right and centre since the inception of the Devils - really? A couple of clubs have gone under in the ODFA but who else? The SFL was formed when the then STFL and Huon amalgamated because some of their teams were going broke in the late 90s, before the Devils. The SWL southern clubs had to go somehwere or else the original TFL needed to be rebuilt but Sandy Bay were already gone (pre-Devils).

It is easy to blame what is wrong with local football on the Devils and AFL Tasmania but it certainly wasn't perfect in 2000, was it?

The Devils are a consequence not the cause.

[The Doctor '73]

I don't think that the Devils were the cause of many of the problems that attributed to the downfall of Tasmanian football, and I never said that in my post. What my point is that the people who are running Tasmanian football at the moment are so Devils fixated that they are ignoring the problems that are arising out of the local competitions. Whilst only a few clubs may have folded there are plenty who are now only a shadow of their former selveve and unfortunately I can never see them returning to even close to their former glory if they are continued to be treated as they are at the moment.

I don’t mind in theory their being an elite team for Tasmania, but the people in charge of football Tasmania and who are pretty much the same people in charge of the Devils have to realise that there is a lot more to football in this state than focusing all their attention and monetary support to one side. This is what’s hurting Tasmanian Football not the Devils team itself.

[Kingpin]

I think you guys are being unreasonable. Tasmanian football was going downhill fast in the nineties. I remember going to watch North Hobart play Burnie at NH in about 1999 and there were 200 people there. The SWL fell over because the clubs were broke and the local teams got no media coverage when up against saturation AFL on TV and newspapers.
TFL Statewide League went downhill because of a number of reasons.
Saturation AFL coverage was an effect, but not the real cause.
It was politics, sheer bloody mindedness of certain clubs that participated in the league itself, greed, pathetic administration from the top down, and the TFL's failure to listen to the fans, dominace of two or three teams every year.

Also too, quite a lot of the players didn't want to travel, didn't want to make the commitment and could make good money playing in the bush.

The TFL ended up being in the media more for political reasons than for football reasons, then they started chopping and changing clubs, changing names of teams - the supporters got the sh*ts with it all and stayed home.
Clarence & Burnie Football Clubs were one of the worst perpetrators of agitating in the TFL.
And have a look at who is running AFL Tasmania now, mostly Clarence people - many of them who had a fair bit to do with the destruction of the Statewide League - it's a never ending circle.
If you think it was bad back then, its a whole lot worse now.
I remember North Hobart and Clarence playing in a Qualifying Final in 2001/2002 in front of 829-people :eek: (Figures courtesy of NHFC)
Who would EVER have thought that that would happen?
Hobart v North Hobart grand final in 2004 - 4289-people.
By the way, the lowest TFL attendance was 356-people Launceston v Sandy Bay at Windsor Park in the mid 90's.
The lowest in the South was 402 (Sandy Bay v Launceston at North Hobart in 1996)

The Devils have grown out of the ashes of local football and at least now there is some local content in the newspapers again even if it mainly Devils related. All this despite the Devils playing in a competition they can never win. I'm back in Tassie for this weekend and will go to the game on Sunday because the Devils are the best quality football we will see in Hobart.
I believe that the Devils will win it one day, AFL Tasmania even went to the trouble of buying home games off of Victorian based clubs to get a bit extra edge - money that could go to help promote local football. They will keep spending until they do win it.
Of course the Devils are the best quality football in Hobart - they should be with what has been spent on it.

You say clubs and leagues are falling over left, right and centre since the inception of the Devils - really? A couple of clubs have gone under in the ODFA but who else?
The Tasman Association, The Peninsula Football Association are two I can think of, off the top of my head.
Clubs such as Woodsdale, Colebrook, Kempton, Cambridge, Tunnack, Port Arthur, Koonya, Eaglehawk Neck, Nubeena have gone.
A host of other clubs have been at death's door in the past few years.

The SFL was formed when the then STFL and Huon amalgamated because some of their teams were going broke in the late 90s, before the Devils. The SWL southern clubs had to go somehwere or else the original TFL needed to be rebuilt but Sandy Bay were already gone (pre-Devils).
The Southern Amatuer Football League admitted two disgruntled former Huon clubs (Kingston & Channel) and renamed the league the STFL.
The Huon Football Association had been dicked about with by one..........Peter Hodgman :rolleyes: - who went on to be in charge of AFL Tasmania.
Franklin Lions were absorbed by the Huonville Bulldogs at the end of 1997 and the Huon FA disbanded.
Hobart left the TFL and joined Cygnet, Kermandie, Huonville Lions in joining the STFL, the league was renamed the SFL.
After the TFL collapsed in 2000, AFL Tasmania then forced the remaining clubs in the SFL to accept the three orphaned TFL clubs from the South into the comp, or they would not be given any umpires to officiate games.
All they did was bundle country/amatuer/TFL sides together and abandon them altogether in the one comp, and concentrate on the Devils.
By doing this, we had a dreadfully lopsided competition, chronic lack of enthusiam from media, players and supporters.
We had teams being forced to give up thier colours, thier emblems, thier guernseys and traditions - jeez that went down a treat with the fans!!
It was only when several country clubs threatened something akin to mutiny, that the league was split into Premier & Regional.
But the same problems still exist.
There is no known way that the former TFL sides should ever have been playing or be playing against country/amatuer teams.
The TANFL should have been reformed - a sixth club found - and all efforts made to strengthen football in the Southern area (the North was still good).
The Devils could have been a very widespread popular concept had AFL Tasmania done things properly and showed the clubs the respect that they deserved.
However, whilst the Devils get very good turnouts at thier southern matches, they are either liked or hated by football fans across the state.
It could have all been so different.

It is easy to blame what is wrong with local football on the Devils and AFL Tasmania but it certainly wasn't perfect in 2000, was it?
People behind the Devils and AFL Tasmania now were pretty much the same crew behind the 2000 debacle.
Whilst things were very poor in 2000, they are downright atrocious now.

The Devils are a consequence not the cause.
The lingering stench, you mean?

[The Big H]

Hmmmm some interesting arguements there, however i think drawing an anolgy from the australian cricket board supporting grass roots cricket is laughable. There are many more regional cricket sides falling over than footy and the amount of kids playing cricket in tassie is thousands below footy.

The problems associated with regional clubs (and i play in the nefu) is demographics. There just aren't enough young people to play in country town teams anymore. I play for a team that i played for as a kid because of family connections but i don't live in the town. Some of the kids we have come through are good young players and some of them have gone on to play in the Mariners and for ntfl clubs, which i fully support, because i did the same to play at a higher level. The problem is we have only a few other kids coming through who actually stay and work in the area. Some of these kids are also required to work on weekends, or are apprentces and the like who risk being sacked if they are injured.

While the elite footy programs within the state do take a fair proportion of money, i have never had any problems accessing footy tas in helping with auskick programs, providing players as guest speakers within schools, supporting regional development squads and the like.

Footy clubs that have gone broke and are struggling both on and of the ground in developed populations should always look inwardly before blaming everything and everyone else around them. For example, Launceston footy club have been both up and down and realised that the spending they were doing on players was way too much and the personel they had recruited were not improving the culture of the club. So they embarked on a junior develoment program, got people with sound financial managemnet skills into the cub and have had a series of excellent coaches while also supporting the elite competition and now they are beginning to reap the rewards both on and of the field.

[wattsy]

Hard times for devils and this week face in form quality oppostion in North Ballart whom i seen stich up Geelong easily.

[The Doctor '73]

Hmmmm some interesting arguements there, however i think drawing an anolgy from the australian cricket board supporting grass roots cricket is laughable. There are many more regional cricket sides falling over than footy and the amount of kids playing cricket in tassie is thousands below footy.

I didn’t say that the Australian cricket board supported grass roots cricket I said, it helped to maintain the standard of the state competition which is where the next group of Australian cricketers will come from. Whilst you need the grass roots cricket to first get youngsters interested in cricket it’s at state level where there needs to be a good competition so that players on the fringe of the Australian side or players returning from injury can play against first class opposition and keep their skills up to best standard that is possible.

Matthew Armstong has stated over and over again that the standard in the SFL is not up to scratch and at times have prefered to rest his players rather than expose them to playing in the SFL. I just believe if the standard of the competition improves in the South then this will have the added advantage of being able to get help get new players more ready for the pace and standard of the VFL and also allow those players on the fringe to be able to keep their skill level as high as possible. To improve the competition money is needed to help attract quality players and football people to the community clubs and raise the standard of football that they are playing.

I agree with you that clubs do need to look inward and lot of the problems that they are now suffering has been somewhat self inflicted. But the problem here in the South of the State is that the tradional avenues of raising money to help turn clubs around have been taken away due to the sole focus that is placed on the Devils. I don’t blame the Devils themselves but the people in charge of the SFL and Football Tasmania who seem not to try and put in any effort to try and promote the league or do anything to try turn around the fortunes of the competition.

I mean how do you get more people to games which is the way to improve money for clubs, when there is absolutlely no media coverage of the competition?, or if there is any its usually about how poor the standard is? Regional clubs such as New Norfolk are always going to get support by the local community so this probably doesn’t effect them as much but inner city clubs such as Hobart and North Hobart face a much harder time as they don’t get that community support, and the only way they can get people on board is to let the public constantly know about them. Without any media outlet to let thye public know what's going on this is very hard to do.

After a game on Saturday the whole competitions games are wrapped up in one story (usually a brief match summary on 1 game then a paragraph on the rest of the games) and during the week there would be lucky to have 1 or 2 stories about the upcoming weekends round. Put that against the 2 or 3 stories a day that the Devils get then obviously its hard to create much publicity.

[The Big H]

Doctor, i can understand your arguemet about media coverage, however if you take the trip up north you would see how the Examiner and the advocate cover regional footy is really quie good. There are also a few radio shows and stuff on the tv (the WIN regional news do good regional wrap ups and previews.). There isn't a day go by in the advocate when there isn't a half page story on an ntfl club. So i know its a bit of a chicken or egg arguement is the Mercury and southern media slack, or the clubs slack in self promotion?

Football in the north of the state is as good now as it will ever get because of many reasons that are complex and too detailed to go into. Anyone who believes that footy will return to the days of the 60s and 70's has rocks in their heads. Too many people suffer from memory bias and only remember what they think the "good old days" were like and don't have an accurate picture of what it was truly like. The crowds before the advent of the greater northern league and then before the statewide league were no where near as good as footy crowds today. And having played in the ntfl during the early to mid 90's as well as the ntfa and nefu, i can say that the improved coaching, professionalism and development squads etc. for elite kids has improved the skills and standard of footy overall. There are some exceptions of course, but this often is the ebb and flow of clubs and demographics of towns. For example Scottsdale when i played for them were a powerhouse with the likes of peter roozendale, rick hanlon etc. but the ability to keep kids in the region is very difficult. Now Peters young son is playing with the northern bombers and killing them. So Scottsdale is now in the ntfa and is doing well, but does not have the standard of players they once did. Burnie, Launceston, the Bombers and South(although they are on a bit of a downer atm) have excellent junior development programs, pick up kids from regional areas looking to improve themselves and are doing well. They are not reliant on importing players from the mainland and many of the younger players are in the mariners, or under the eye of afl scouts.

We will always loose many of our best kids to the mainland because for many this is their ticket to explore the world outside Tassie, but many of those players are actually staying in the state because of the elite progam. If the Devils did not exist we would not keep these promising juniors in the clubs as many would leave to play in the wafl, sanfl or vfl.

[Kingpin]

Doctor, i can understand your arguemet about media coverage, however if you take the trip up north you would see how the Examiner and the advocate cover regional footy is really quie good. There are also a few radio shows and stuff on the tv (the WIN regional news do good regional wrap ups and previews.). There isn't a day go by in the advocate when there isn't a half page story on an ntfl club. So i know its a bit of a chicken or egg arguement is the Mercury and southern media slack, or the clubs slack in self promotion?

Football in the north of the state is as good now as it will ever get because of many reasons that are complex and too detailed to go into. Anyone who believes that footy will return to the days of the 60s and 70's has rocks in their heads. Too many people suffer from memory bias and only remember what they think the "good old days" were like and don't have an accurate picture of what it was truly like. The crowds before the advent of the greater northern league and then before the statewide league were no where near as good as footy crowds today. And having played in the ntfl during the early to mid 90's as well as the ntfa and nefu, i can say that the improved coaching, professionalism and development squads etc. for elite kids has improved the skills and standard of footy overall. There are some exceptions of course, but this often is the ebb and flow of clubs and demographics of towns. For example Scottsdale when i played for them were a powerhouse with the likes of peter roozendale, rick hanlon etc. but the ability to keep kids in the region is very difficult. Now Peters young son is playing with the northern bombers and killing them. So Scottsdale is now in the ntfa and is doing well, but does not have the standard of players they once did. Burnie, Launceston, the Bombers and South(although they are on a bit of a downer atm) have excellent junior development programs, pick up kids from regional areas looking to improve themselves and are doing well. They are not reliant on importing players from the mainland and many of the younger players are in the mariners, or under the eye of afl scouts.

We will always loose many of our best kids to the mainland because for many this is their ticket to explore the world outside Tassie, but many of those players are actually staying in the state because of the elite progam. If the Devils did not exist we would not keep these promising juniors in the clubs as many would leave to play in the wafl, sanfl or vfl.

I agree with what you're saying there in regards to the North.
The local crowds are similar if not, even better than what they were in the 80's, and the standard is extremely good.
The Northern papers do a wonderful job in regards to local football coverage.
But, in the South, the crowds are at a low probably not seen for a hundred years, the local content in the media (papers, radio, TV) is absolutely abysmal.
I don't know whether its slack reporting in the media so much, as that it is different in the South compared to the North. The media outlets here are very mainland dominated (and owned) so local footy doesn't get much of a look in.
Local confidence in the game is very low, enthusiasm is not there, people are giving it away - and that is NOT a good sign for the sport.