Some bigfooty posters will be disappointed

[sainter]

Looking at the 2002 predictions thread on the main boards, it was hard not to notice that about 38 out of 40 people had selected St Kilda to win the wooden spoon.

I was just wondering what our fellow supporters think about that?

Personally I don't understand why.

Are they basing their opinions on Grant Thomas' appointment?

That would seem a strange basis of which to rate a teams chances because they, like us, have no idea how Thomas will coach after having the opportunity to coach the boys throughout pre-season, implement his own game plan and have a new team of assistants around him. If you looked at his 2001 performance, tactically I thought he was quite good and didn't appear out of his depth at all. The players showed a lot more committment than they had on many previous occasions. The way that he has ignored the criticism and got on with his job showed a lot of maturity. Good luck Grant, I have a good feeling about our upcoming season.

Are they basing it on our 2000/2001 results?

If that's the case then that is fair enough in one respect. However upon further inspection of our list we have a multitude of promising youngsters coming through. Call me biased but EVERY club would love to have a couple of key position kids like Justin Koschitzke and Nick Riewoldt on their list. Add Jason Blake and possibly Troy Schwarze to our key defenders. Our drafting over the past few years has obviously been targeted at developing some young midfielders. Brett Moyle, Lenny Hayes, Cadyn Beetham and Stephen Baker give me a lot of confidence for the future. In those 4 we have one player that knocks up possessions at will, two pacy and skill midfielders and one tough as nail tagger. In the forward line, Stephen Milne has given us a much needed forward pocket goalsneak. Both Nick and Justin are capable of playing in the forward line in the future. Anyone who saw the VFL this year couldn't help but be impressed with Chris Oliver. To me he was almost Jeff White like in the manner in which he would contest a ruck duel, palming the ball down to a Springvale player more often than not.

Of all recruits, Gehrig was sensational after an extremely limited pre-season campaign. Imagine how he will go after a full pre-season? Hamill worked hard and put in 100% at all times. I forsee that he will reap the benefits of all his work next year. Callaghan was a good acquisition with his toughness and ability to score a goal. Powell showed glimpses when fit while Stevie Lawrence will be a virtual new recruit in 2002. Capuano showed what he is capable of in round 22 and needs to perform to that level next year, particularly in the possible absense of Spider. Finally Brett Voss played his first full season of senior football and while his form tapered off towards the end, his disposal and ability shone through and I'd anticipate he will be a much better player for this season.

Lastly, what about our experienced players? To lose Harvey, Burke and Loewe was a huge blow to a relatively inexperienced team. Harves will be back better than ever next year and after a few injury interrupted years, God help the taggers assigned to resticting his influence. Burke looked a lot better when played in the midfield. Like Hamill he could prove to be a bit of a wildcard when given a chance in the forward line with his ability to work hard to keep the ball in the area. Stewie Loewe I think is still underated amongst Saints fans. His ability to take contested marks and at the very least bring the ball to ground is very important. Hopefully the return of Loewe will help us to stretch defenders. Hall's gone which is his loss. Thommo started off the season slowly which may have been because he was played out of position. His second half of the season was more like the Andrew Thompson that we know. Having Thompspon, Harvey, Burke, Hayes, Beetham, Moyle and Baker gives us a good balance of youth and experienced. I did float the possibly of picking up Adrian Fletcher once again and while many people think we should stick with youth, he is well worth thinking about with a late draft pick.

I won't go through every player because this post is long enough as it is. Over the next few weeks we will see many players delisted from our football club, we will pick up a couple of big name players in the trading period and will select some of the best youngsters in the country. We will have a squad that has the performances of the past two years to act as motivation.

St Kilda to win the wooden spoon - I don't think so

[Fred]

Good post Sainter. I'm looking forward with confidence but I've been doing that for about 47 years now.
Next year, I'd like to see Loewe planted in the goal square with orders not to move out of it. If the defenders move forward, he'd be left one on one and would be hard to beat.

[thestretch60]

I don't think you will get the wooden spoon, but I think you will finish in the bottom four.

[bunsen burner]

yes sainter, like I had time to read your post/essay/novel.

[Vaul Darkhour]

Sainter.. thats because there are a lot of idiots out there...

[Eagle_Fan]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
yes sainter, like I had time to read your post/essay/novel.

So why reply? :rolleyes: Aren't you just a tad peeved that those same people tipping the saints to 'win' the spoon have generally tipped us at 15th? Sainters points are valid, and even make a fair bit of sense ;) but if you don't have the attention span to handle them, keep it to yourself.



For what it's worth, I think they're tipping you to finish 16th purely because its 'safe'. The final 4 are likely to again be you, us, freo and one other team. We haven't 'won' a spoon yet -so who wants to tip the first? Freo can't possibly have a worse season, and noone wishes back-to-back spoons on a club, so they tip them above you too..... and the other team could be one of many, so it's best not to put them in 16th..... Which only leaves you guys?

Personally, I'd like to see all three 2001 cellar dwellers do a 'Port' next year and take the competition by storm.... what do you think? :D

EF. :)

btw- I hear you have some pretty good tall kid? Justin something? :confused: ;)

[Darky]

Katester I think you've hit the nail on the head - safe tipping... but why wouldn't you tip safely?

A very heated discussion erupted last off-season between myself and Sabre_ac because I picked Fremantle to finish bottom.

My logic was simple - had a very poor year (again) and were a club who added very little to their stocks by way of draft & trade. They really only gained Peter Bell, but already had a strong in and under midfield, so he would only be taking someone else's posessions. They did not recruit to meet their deficiencies.

Similarly I picked St.Kilda to make little improvement because, despite the recruitment of Hamill, their other recruits were either kids in the draft (who you can't bank on to shape a season), and hacks who struggled at other clubs.

It will again depend on how well every club recruits over the next few weeks. St.Kilda appear to need at least two key defenders, one more quality midfielder (possibly two incase Harvey and the other older guys succumb to injuries), and at least one more key forward.

There's a bit of talent on the list at St.Kilda, but Hall (and possibly Everitt?) will be traded, and a few of the established players - Loewe, Harvey, Burke, Thompson - will all be a year closer to retiring. A similar problem is occurring at the Kangaroos where there are very few players in the 24-28 age group, and these are usually the guys that win you games, finals and premierships.

If the kids like Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Moyle, Oliver, Hayes, Beetham and Blake develop, St.Kilda will have a good side in 3 years time, but in the meantime a decision has to be made :
- recruit well-established players in the Hamill/Gehrig mould
OR
- recruit more kids to truly build a side from scratch

DO NOT invest in discards that struggled elsewhere (Capuano, Charles, Plapp, Delaney, Lawrence, Trianaidis, Powell, Ryan, etc).

Maybe most important of all, St.Kilda should have appointed Damir Dokic as coach. I've heard he has some good ideas about footy and people management. ;)

[sainter]

Thanks K, we'll prove them wrong (I hope ;))

Good point about the tipping. At this stage we don't even know who is delisted or being added to the squad so our teams are just the safe option.

You don't have a bad young midfielder too. (Yes, I actually said that :))

Darky,

Good points.

I know that the clubs recruiting options were twofold. One was to make use of some of the early picks in the draft with the best youngsters in the country and the other was to address our deficiency in the area of middle tier players. There's no use having good kids and some good experienced players with nothing in the middle. Much like you said about the Kangaroos. For that reason we targeted a bunch of players all between the ages of 22 - 25. Hamill and Gehrig were hailed as great coups at the time and both have had good seasons with room for improvement. Steven Lawrence had his season decimated through injuries but was a great pick-up and Robert Powell showed glimpses of good play when he wasn't injured. Callaghan is another that has added something to our team and that is hardness at the ball. Lawerence and Baker will assist in that area. The idea behind Capuano's recruitment was obvious and he just didn't perform. His round 22 best on ground performance at least showed he has the ability and if I don't see it next year I'll speak about him in the same way as you. ;) I don't know why we recruited Gale. The reasoning behind recruiting these guys was to address the serious deficiency in our playing list. I'm expecting them to have a much better season and with the inclusions of Harvey, Burke, Loewe, Lawrence, Hayes, etc we will look a much better side. Two more top 5 draft picks will ensure the youth policy is continued.

(I am remarkably positive about my team....probably too much most of the time :D)

Overlooking Damir was another oversight in the process undertaken to replace Malcolm Blight. His people skills and ability to fight for what he believes in (ie the price of fish) would have been a welcome addition. :)

And I feel somewhat hypocrtical bagging the skill level of the St Kilda players, even though they are professionals. ;)

[StrengthThroughLoyalty]

great post sainter. once again you have summed up our chances next year with an insightful commentary and only a small hint of bias (troy shcwartze a key position defender;) )

for us to be competitive next year we need to be able to put our best 22 on the park for most of the season. the teams development can only come by consistently playing footy together, something that did not happen this year. we need improvement from all the young blokes you mentioned especially hayes, baker, beetham and moyle in the midfield. reiwoldt should be played as a forward next year to add another tall dimension to the forward line, hall is going to be a massive loss to us. kosi will keep slaying them at chb with the occasional run forward.

as for the bigfooty posters opinion about where we will finish, imho most are guided by the media or popular opinion and have no analysis skills what so ever. i couldn't give a toss what they, the media or anyone else thinks, i too am positive that the saints will win more games next year than they did this year.

i'm going to the b&f tonight so will give a report tomorrow.

[sainter]

Thanks STL,

Troy Schwarze as a key defender, maybe I was pushing it just a little. ;)

I think we have a fair bit to look forward too. Another year decimated by injuries will be hard to take.

Have a good time tonight, I'd love to be there. I'll be at the night racing at Moonee Valley but I'll still be talking about the saints and having too much to drink so it will be like I am there anyway. :D

[Tredders#16]

West Coast will finish bottom this year.
I used to be a Saints fan until Port Adelaide came into the comp in 1997. I switched across to Port Adelaide and where did the Saints finish that year? Doh! Beaten by my most bitter enemies in the GF.
The Saints should be pleased once again with what they have achieved in the trade period. Hall is a loss, but Heath Black is a very good pick-up (is there any club which hasn't ripped Fremantle off in a trade situation???).
Knobel is a bit of an unknown, but with draft choices 2,5,13,21,37 and even 49, St Kilda should be able to continue to bolster its list. How many times has it been said in the past, but the Saints will be a very good side in 2-3 years time.
I'll be watching with interest!
Tredders#16

[sainter]

Good post Tredders.

I think Black will be an excellent acquisition. We probably lack a midfielder/wingman type player with good disposal and the ability to finish off his work in front of goal. We virtually got Knobel for nothing which was a bargain. He's a young ruckman that will be given time to develop in the VFL and adds much needed depth to our ruck division.

Like you said, we've done well to add to our early draft selections in what is being tipped as one of the better quality drafts there has been in years.

I have to ask why you've changed teams though. We need all the support we can get through these harder times.

[Tredders#16]

Originally posted by sainter
Good post Tredders.


I have to ask why you've changed teams though. We need all the support we can get through these harder times.

My Dad grew up in Adelaide and followed the Port Magpies all his life, so I followed them also. He was a Saints supporter in the VFL, so I followed them aswell. When the AFL came into being, Port attempted to have a side in the comp in 1991, but the SANFL did a whole heap of dirty tricks to stop us and thus became the Crows!
Bottom line is that I've followed Port Magpies all my life, so when they joined the AFL, I continued my alliance. St Kilda will always be my second team though, but won't get my membership dollars, as they go to Port!
Tredders#16

[sainter]

I can understand that Tredders.

My Dad is a former South Australian and Port Adelaide supporter as well. Fortunately he's stuck with the saints. :)

When you make your millions, I'm sure your former side will be entilted to some of your membership dollars. :p

[Savatage]

Tredders16 - I concur with the man Sainter....just think about being a Saints member?

What an honour!

As a bonus we'll even let you hang out with us- AT NO EXTRA COST!!! Phenomenal value, now hand over the cash :)

Just kidding..

Cheers Bro- thanks for your post.