View Full Version : Brett Lee 10-2-41-5
silky-smooth
10 Jul 2005, 23:09
Go away silly people.
Well done Brett Lee.
Freo Big Fella
10 Jul 2005, 23:38
Cue eddiot in 5.....4.....3.....2.....
Seriously why would you bother trying to change them? Every man and his dog and his dog's kennel knows Brett Lee bowled extremely well and offers so much value to this side. The others who bag him and then dissapear for days on end when he gets wickets are hardly going to change their mind...
usalion
10 Jul 2005, 23:44
Silky- won't deny that Lee can bowl in the one day game...my big fear is that if he gets picked in the test side, the Poms will paste him all over the paddock....when that happens, he needs to be dropped, never considered for Test selection again....
Lee is the bowling version of Michael Bevan in ODIs .. a complete legend in the ODIs, and has been found out in Tests.
Good luck to Lee if he gets picked, but if he gets pasted in the first 3 tests, then his file should be stamped as "never" to play tests again.
mattyc2422
11 Jul 2005, 00:44
Was a sensible spell today. Far in contrast to Dizzy this tour.
eddiesmith
11 Jul 2005, 01:15
Brett Lee 39.3 - 5 - 204 - 4
Go away you silly people who want him in the test team (oh wait, he plays, England win). Bring Back Lee to the test team
silky-smooth
11 Jul 2005, 01:21
Brett Lee 39.3 - 5 - 204 - 4
Go away you silly people who want him in the test team (oh wait, he plays, England win). Bring Back Lee to the test team
Yeah, let's bring up figures from over 18 months ago. Smart, really. :rolleyes:
eddiesmith
11 Jul 2005, 01:22
Yeah, let's bring up figures from over 18 months ago. Smart, really. :rolleyes:
Why not? Its his last test match
silky-smooth
11 Jul 2005, 01:23
Why not? Its his last test match
So you simply assume that his form is exactly the same as that match?
Cooldude
11 Jul 2005, 01:25
He bowled well enough, got a couple of cheap ones in the end when the Poms were slogging, he was the 2nd best bowler. Kasper was the one that set it up, he might not have as many wickets, but he dismissed both openers, bowled beautifully and was very unlucky that Mr. Ricky Ponting refuse to put in more slips/gullies when they got them 4 down and a couple of nicks went for four when there should be slips/gullies there
eddiesmith
11 Jul 2005, 01:29
So you simply assume that his form is exactly the same as that match?
Whats to suggest otherwise? He gets one day wickets late in an innings when players are going the slog, otherwise they see him as a bowler to score runs off by using the pace of the ball. In test cricket he doesnt and wont get as many wickets.
But as a Pommie supporter I say bring him in
silky-smooth
11 Jul 2005, 01:37
Even though I didn't even start this thread cause I wanted him in the first Test team... but if he is picked, we'll get a fair idea as to his current (no, not 18 months ago) Test form. I think he's more than proved on this series that he is a good One Day bowler. Until the Test Series is finished, stop with these lavish opinions that he's a crap Test bowler.
And as an Australian, I suggest they give him a go. If he comes out in the first Test with figures of 1-100 in both innings, well there you go. It's Kasprowicz's time for the remaining Tests.
eddiesmith
11 Jul 2005, 01:39
I think Gillespie has alot more to worry about than Kasper
He gets one day wickets late in an innings when players are going the slog
Just like your beloved Goughy :D
eddiesmith
11 Jul 2005, 04:12
Just like your beloved Goughy :D
Thats why Goughy has retired from test cricket because you dont get those cheap wickets there :p
manmountain
11 Jul 2005, 09:09
I am a serial Lee-hater but I think he has to take Dizzy's spot for the first test. He couldn't possibly bowl any worse than Dizzy is at the moment, and if he does, then swap them for the second test.
I do worry about him with the older ball in a test match when the batsmen aren't going the slog, as I don't think he has the tricks to deal with that, but with a newish ball, he looks more likely than Dizzy to take wickets.
Freo Big Fella
11 Jul 2005, 10:22
Don't insult the real Pommy supporters on here by including yourself with them eddie. You're a bandwagoner, not a supporter.
bunsen burner
11 Jul 2005, 11:20
I am a serial Lee-hater but I think he has to take Dizzy's spot for the first test. He couldn't possibly bowl any worse than Dizzy is at the moment, and if he does, then swap them for the second test.
I do worry about him with the older ball in a test match when the batsmen aren't going the slog, as I don't think he has the tricks to deal with that, but with a newish ball, he looks more likely than Dizzy to take wickets.
I agree - Lee must play at the expense of Gillespie or Kaspa.
I also agree that Lee is in the Bevan category. Both are clearly ODI cricketers. Lee doesn't have the nous to be a regular test bowler. But, we just can't go into a test match with two bowlers out of form.
There's some fools here who think a change to test match cricket is some sort of magic wand that will instantly make Gillespie and Kaspa return to the form of 3 months ago. Not so and a very big risk.
Chops18
11 Jul 2005, 12:08
So you simply assume that his form is exactly the same as that match?
With all do respect to Lee he is better suited for one dayers only. Its not all that great in the tests all the batters got to do is wait for the new ball to wear out and they will be all over him like a 2 dollar hooker
bunsen burner
11 Jul 2005, 12:19
With all do respect to Lee he is better suited for one dayers only. Its not all that great in the tests all the batters got to do is wait for the new ball to wear out and they will be all over him like a 2 dollar hooker
Very true, but herein lies the problem:
Gillespie and Kaspa are out of form. Although we can differentiate Test and ODI form to a certain degree, it'd be foolish to think that a swap from ODI to test will automatically end a form slump. It might, but it might not. It's a very very big risk taking two bowlers into a test who have shown very little form this tour.
One thing is almost certain: we can't risk playing both Gillespie and Kaspa. One must stand aside. So who do we replace the dropped player with? The only possible answer is Brett Lee.
Ipaidmy200in89
11 Jul 2005, 12:32
Why not? Its his last test match
What about the last Ashes Series? Who won that? Relevant? Not really.
Get the point Eddie Smyth?
Andrew Mc
11 Jul 2005, 12:35
Why not? Its his last test match
MTG Elliott c Arnold b Vaas 1 1 8 0 0
MTG Elliott c Dilshan b Vaas 0 9 3 0 0
Ipaidmy200in89
11 Jul 2005, 12:36
Thats why Goughy has retired from test cricket because you dont get those cheap wickets there :p
How did Ponting go last night clown head.....
I am sure you open your mouth to change feet!
Cameron_K
11 Jul 2005, 12:50
Gough is struggling to get a wicket in the One Dayers.......
Freo Big Fella
11 Jul 2005, 12:55
MTG Elliott c Arnold b Vaas 1 1 8 0 0
MTG Elliott c Dilshan b Vaas 0 9 3 0 0
:D
johnnyhoward
11 Jul 2005, 13:39
MTG Elliott c Arnold b Vaas 1 1 8 0 0
MTG Elliott c Dilshan b Vaas 0 9 3 0 0
that's ok. he's a south australian now :)
Chops18
11 Jul 2005, 15:01
Very true, but herein lies the problem:
Gillespie and Kaspa are out of form. Although we can differentiate Test and ODI form to a certain degree, it'd be foolish to think that a swap from ODI to test will automatically end a form slump. It might, but it might not. It's a very very big risk taking two bowlers into a test who have shown very little form this tour.
One thing is almost certain: we can't risk playing both Gillespie and Kaspa. One must stand aside. So who do we replace the dropped player with? The only possible answer is Brett Lee.
Agreed its probably not the best series to try out Taity being a big one. Dont think Lee will play the first test they probably will play Diiz and Kaspa before dropping one of them.
Agreed its probably not the best series to try out Taity being a big one. Dont think Lee will play the first test they probably will play Diiz and Kaspa before dropping one of them.
According to the Sky commentary team, Brett Lee is a certain starter :rolleyes:
These guys have no idea.
Chops18
11 Jul 2005, 15:10
According to the Sky commentary team, Brett Lee is a certain starter :rolleyes:
These guys have no idea.
The amount of times i hear Brett Lee is a certain starter is unbelivable i think for the last year now its always brett lee is in but he always seems to carry the drinks. I guess hes quick at bringing the drinks out.
Cooldude
11 Jul 2005, 15:14
Which ********er still thinks Kasper's out of form?
It's an absolute myth, did they even watch the match last night?
Chops18
11 Jul 2005, 15:20
only one match tho he hasnt been in form all series.
Cooldude
11 Jul 2005, 15:22
only one match tho he hasnt been in form all series.
Rubbish
And how many matches did he actually played in the series?
Only two prior to yesterday
It's great how people can judge a bloke being out of form on two matches.
Yesterday was him at his best, troubling the left handers as he always does and hitting the bat hard.
You can't drop him, he is our best first change bowler.
Chops18
11 Jul 2005, 15:30
Rubbish
And how many matches did he actually played in the series?
Only two prior to yesterday
It's great how people can judge a bloke being out of form on two matches.
Yesterday was him at his best, troubling the left handers as he always does and hitting the bat hard.
You can't drop him, he is our best first change bowler.
Not saying we should drop him at all but why has he only played two games since they started their tour.
Cooldude
11 Jul 2005, 15:34
Not saying we should drop him at all but why has he only played two games since they started their tour.
When you have Lee and Mcgrath, one of Diz and Kasper will always miss out regardless of form, it turned out to be Kasper
Kasper wasn't actually that bad in the first two matches, he had trouble with his run up and bowled way too many no balls, but he fixed that yesterday.
But of course, people only ever wanted Kasper dropped anyway, so him bowling well does not suit their agenda.
Chops18
11 Jul 2005, 16:02
When you have Lee and Mcgrath, one of Diz and Kasper will always miss out regardless of form, it turned out to be Kasper
Kasper wasn't actually that bad in the first two matches, he had trouble with his run up and bowled way too many no balls, but he fixed that yesterday.
But of course, people only ever wanted Kasper dropped anyway, so him bowling well does not suit their agenda.
I prefer kaspa over Lee, dont really like the arrogance in him.
Cooldude
11 Jul 2005, 16:03
I prefer kaspa over Lee, dont really like the arrogance in him.
Agree
But Kasper just doesn't seem to get the respect he deserves in the cricket world, he is in the top 4 best quicks in the world. Yet people seem to like nothing more than talking about dropping him
Chops18
11 Jul 2005, 16:08
Agree
But Kasper just doesn't seem to get the respect he deserves in the cricket world, he is in the top 4 best quicks in the world. Yet people seem to like nothing more than talking about dropping him
thats cuase hes not as flamboyant as the others. I mean you got Lee with his pace, Dizzy and his mullet and McGrath is just the best. Kaspa is the Boof of bowlers cleary and outstanding player but will neva get the kudos he deserves.
Cooldude
11 Jul 2005, 16:10
thats cuase hes not as flamboyant as the others. I mean you got Lee with his pace, Dizzy and his mullet and McGrath is just the best. Kaspa is the Boof of bowlers cleary and outstanding player but will neva get the kudos he deserves.
Which is a shame, since he is a great bowler, great servant for Queensland cricket and Australian cricket.
But of course, he's that good, it means to the media, it endangers their darling Brett Lee's chances, so they can't acknowledge how good Kasper is.
Hopefully the selectors don't think the same as those fools though
apollo_creed
11 Jul 2005, 18:16
Brett Lee 39.3 - 5 - 204 - 4
Go away you silly people who want him in the test team (oh wait, he plays, England win). Bring Back Lee to the test team
I love your work Eddiesmith.
I can't see why Gillespie should be dropped from the test team, for bad form in the one day team.
And Lee should be in the test team for good form in the one day team.
Lee can't play the long form, he tastes the smack when he plays four day cricket for his state.
Lee is a very good one day bowler yes. But a pie chucking no hoper at test level. Lee must prove himself for NSW in the Pura Cup like others have to before he derserves another chance at test level. He hasn't earnt a recall but he will get one and in a related story England will win back the Ashes.
apollo_creed
11 Jul 2005, 18:18
Which is a shame, since he is a great bowler, great servant for Queensland cricket and Australian cricket.
But of course, he's that good, it means to the media, it endangers their darling Brett Lee's chances, so they can't acknowledge how good Kasper is.
Hopefully the selectors don't think the same as those fools though
Whats happened to you man?
Giving Brett Lee cred.
You've changed.... :D
Edit -
That was a bad quote to choose but I saw some credit on the first page. Don't give in.
Cooldude
11 Jul 2005, 18:26
******** Brett Lee, if he doesn't get picked, I'd love to see him and his manager whinging to the papers AGAIN. I'd be getting a pack of popcorns taking enjoyment out of watching him carrying the drinks
Okay, that's my anti-Lee stance, now back to my neutral impartial self :D
Unfortunately Dizzy's bowling so bad that you'd even have Nathan Bracken ahead of him
apollo_creed
11 Jul 2005, 18:32
Nathan Bracken's too busy modelling nowdays bad example.
Cooldude
11 Jul 2005, 18:34
Nathan Bracken's too busy modelling nowdays bad example.
Perhaps he's smart enough to try to find another career path instead of trying to pretend to be a first class bowler (Sounds like Lee...)
What's with NSW blonds and modelling? That's one gay city over there in Sydney...
Chops18
12 Jul 2005, 11:33
Perhaps he's smart enough to try to find another career path instead of trying to pretend to be a first class bowler (Sounds like Lee...)
What's with NSW blonds and modelling? That's one gay city over there in Sydney...
You wont see any of that going on in town in Adelaide with Boof there and matty Elliot.
Mat Runs HS BatAv 100 50 W BB BowlAv 5w Ct St
overall 37 593 62* 19.76 0 2 139 5/47 31.66 4 9 0
since we are bring up old and generally pointless stats for 37 matches that isn't the worst record in the world
probably good enough to get another chance I would say
Agree
But Kasper just doesn't seem to get the respect he deserves in the cricket world, he is in the top 4 best quicks in the world.
This is a one eyed statement.
Granted he's a good bowler & I fully agree with your earlier point that he's very good change bowler, he's one of those blokes that you're happy to be bowling with the old ball, providing a good foil to the spinner, not every fast bowler is at his best there but that still doesn't put him in the top 4 quicks int he world.
You've got McGrath, Pollock, you would have had Gillespie but for his current shocking form, but there's Ntini & on current form Nel & then there's the England contingent, 3 of whose records over the last or so stand up pretty well with his.
No way he's in the top 4 quicks in the world.
ben.carbonaro
12 Jul 2005, 20:52
I thought he bowled well, but just because he did well in a one-dayer doesn't mean that he walks straight into the test side. Needs to earn his spot based on frist-class performances for state and Australia in tour games.
johnnyhoward
12 Jul 2005, 21:57
Mat Runs HS BatAv 100 50 W BB BowlAv 5w Ct St
overall 37 593 62* 19.76 0 2 139 5/47 31.66 4 9 0
since we are bring up old and generally pointless stats for 37 matches that isn't the worst record in the world
probably good enough to get another chance I would say
Much better than Lee's recent Test record, didn't he average something like 38 with the ball over the past 10 or 15 Tests?
Lee should do it the hard way and play well in the Pura Cup before he can get into the Test side. It's unfair for him to leapfrog players like Tait and even Bracken due to his form in one dayers only, especially with his patchy form the last time he played Tests.
usalion
12 Jul 2005, 22:01
Much better than Lee's recent Test record, didn't he average something like 38 with the ball over the past 10 or 15 Tests?
Lee should do it the hard way and play well in the Pura Cup before he can get into the Test side. It's unfair for him to leapfrog players like Tait and even Bracken due to his form in one dayers only, especially with his patchy form the last time he played Tests.
Been saying that for well over a year...the Sydney Show Pony, however, has the media on his side....they'll go crazy if he is not in the XI next thursday at Lords
Cooldude
12 Jul 2005, 22:16
This is a one eyed statement.
Granted he's a good bowler & I fully agree with your earlier point that he's very good change bowler, he's one of those blokes that you're happy to be bowling with the old ball, providing a good foil to the spinner, not every fast bowler is at his best there but that still doesn't put him in the top 4 quicks int he world.
You've got McGrath, Pollock, you would have had Gillespie but for his current shocking form, but there's Ntini & on current form Nel & then there's the England contingent, 3 of whose records over the last or so stand up pretty well with his.
No way he's in the top 4 quicks in the world.
One eyed? Certainly not, Kasper's record in Test and to a lesser extent ODIs last year, makes him an automatic choice for top 4 best quicks in the world, and 3 of them are Australians and the other one Pollock
Ntini is not as good as Kasper, and Nel, dont' make me laugh.
Harmison dropped off in the South African tour, so he'd be no.5
The bloke is very good with the new ball, and fantastic with the old ball, he rolls his fingers over it to get some offcutters going and consistently reverse swings the old ball, he has given what Australia hasn't had for ages: A quick that takes wickets with the old ball.
A bloke who's been taking wickets for fun in Tests and averaging somewhere around 22 for the past 15 months deserves to be rated right up there with the best. And he took them against the very best in the world such as the Indian batting and Sri Lankan batting lineup at their own backyard.
linger_isgod
13 Jul 2005, 10:54
I hope a 5 for in an ODI isn't taken too seriously by the selectors, considering the first two wickets were due to shots that would never be played in a Test Match, and the last three wickets were mainly due to the fact that it was in the last 5 overs and England were opening the shoulders.
Prentice
13 Jul 2005, 12:51
I dont know, Lee has always seemed to be a bit expensive but he does get wickets which always struck me that he would be better for Tests rather than ODIs.
I think (especially with a 5 match series) he has to be given a chance in the tests especially with Gillespie and to a lesser extent Kaspa not playing too well lately.
Cooldude
13 Jul 2005, 13:01
I dont know, Lee has always seemed to be a bit expensive but he does get wickets which always struck me that he would be better for Tests rather than ODIs.
Nope, it's a lot easier getting wickets in ODIs when batsmen are looking to go at bowlers, especially at the death.
In Tests, it's all different, the batsmen are a lot more defensive, bowlers have to get them out instead of batsman getting out playing a dumb shot. That's where Brett Lee have failed throughout his Test career
For someone whose strike rate in Test cricket since 2001 have been above 60 balls per wickets, worst of all Aus bowlers, he certainly somehow gets that false reputation that he's a wicket taker
Cassius_Clay
13 Jul 2005, 14:18
Go away silly people.
Well done Brett Lee.
I said this 12 months ago. Lukily everyone else thought he was pooh and thought i was wrong. Jump on the bandwagon.
silky-smooth
13 Jul 2005, 14:36
I said this 12 months ago. Lukily everyone else thought he was pooh and thought i was wrong. Jump on the bandwagon.
I'm not jumping on any bandwagon. Though, the fact I listed him in the Test team prior to the One Day series even beginning wouldn't suggest so either.
I said this 12 months ago. Lukily everyone else thought he was pooh and thought i was wrong. Jump on the bandwagon.
Lee has always been one of the best ODI bowlers in the world. It's his ordinary test record that is a concern and his failure to "transfer" his ODI form over to the test arena in the past. Lee may have not played tests for over a year, but his record in his last 15 tests is woeful. Thus Lee being known as a bowling version of Bevan.
gadj1976
13 Jul 2005, 17:48
bowled well enough, however a drag onto middle stump (Pietersen) and a freakish catch (Ponting off Giles) don't necessarily tell me that it's one of the best bowling stints seen by an Aussie in recent times. Could easily have be three fa.
From the comfort of my lounge suite, I can say that he bowls fast but unpredictable.
Dizzy's just bowling unpredictable stuff at the moment.
Even though I didn't even start this thread cause I wanted him in the first Test team... but if he is picked, we'll get a fair idea as to his current (no, not 18 months ago) Test form. I think he's more than proved on this series that he is a good One Day bowler. Until the Test Series is finished, stop with these lavish opinions that he's a crap Test bowler.
And as an Australian, I suggest they give him a go. If he comes out in the first Test with figures of 1-100 in both innings, well there you go. It's Kasprowicz's time for the remaining Tests.
The thing is Silky, he is a crap test bowler.
mayhem176
13 Jul 2005, 18:33
He bowled well enough, got a couple of cheap ones in the end when the Poms were slogging, he was the 2nd best bowler. Kasper was the one that set it up, he might not have as many wickets, but he dismissed both openers, bowled beautifully and was very unlucky that Mr. Ricky Ponting refuse to put in more slips/gullies when they got them 4 down and a couple of nicks went for four when there should be slips/gullies there
Everyone else got a bowl at the end when they were slogging, but, no one else got wickets. How does that make any difference? When Ponting needs a wicket, he throws the ball to Lee, and every time tonight in the first over of all of his spells, he got a wicket. Who cares whether they were slogging or not, if Gillespe had have bowled when Lee did he would have gone at 15 an over.
apollo_creed
13 Jul 2005, 18:38
F/D the Brett Lee crew never see the light.
Silky he's been given many chances and has
F
A
I
L
E
D
He doesn't deserve another go. He was a good one day bowler 18 months ago as well. The only fair way to gauge his improvement are his performances in the long form for NSW and while not being poor he didn't exactly put forward a case to AC to suggest it'll be any different this time.
This should be the pecking order IMO.
McGrath, Kasprowicz, Gillespie, Tait (outstanding form for SA in the pura cup for two seasons, something Lee doesn't have)
Daylight. (Not the movie)
Space.
3 obese women.
Brett Lee.
silky-smooth
13 Jul 2005, 18:45
The thing is Silky, he is a crap test bowler.
Let me just clear something up, I'm not actually sticking up for Lee as much as people think. I just believe he deserves at least one go in the Test series to prove again what he is really like as a Test bowler. If he fails, then I'd be content to see him out of the Test squad for a while (or possibly forever).
McGrath, Kasprowicz, Gillespie, Tait (outstanding form for SA in the pura cup for two seasons, something Lee doesn't have)
I'd be content with that bowling line-up.
I know what you mean by how he should go back to NSW and the Pura Cup to prove himself again (and I totally agree), but whilst he's over here in England, I'd like to see him get at least one chance.
mayhem176
13 Jul 2005, 18:46
Agree
But Kasper just doesn't seem to get the respect he deserves in the cricket world, he is in the top 4 best quicks in the world. Yet people seem to like nothing more than talking about dropping him
How can you expect people to take you seriously and then make a statement like that, all in the same day. You have got to be joking, surely you must realise that Kaspa is not in the Top 4, good bowler, no doubt, but, Top 4, that is as stupid as saying Brett Lee is a form Test bowler.
mayhem176
13 Jul 2005, 18:49
If Pura Cup form counted for anything, then Tait should start the first Test. I don't think that he should play the first Test, I am just pointing out that Pura Cup isn't the be all and end all. Do you expect Lee to resign for the ODI team to concentrate on playing 4day cricket for NSW to press his claims for the Test side, the only chance he gets is in the ODI games, cos, he hardly ever plays first class cricket.
Just so everyone is fully aware, my point is that Pura Cup is not the start and finish of form indicators, I am definitely not saying that Tait should leapfrog Gillespe, Kaspa and Lee and get a guernsey in the Test side, just using his form as an example.
mayhem176
13 Jul 2005, 18:50
I'd be content with that bowling line-up.
Your bowling line up had 4 quicks in it, why don't we whack in MacGill and Warne and no side would want to face us, they would bowl us out cheap, but, gee we would have a good crack at defending it.
silky-smooth
13 Jul 2005, 18:53
If Pura Cup form counted for anything, then Tait should start the first Test. I don't think that he should play the first Test, I am just pointing out that Pura Cup isn't the be all and end all.
Well I'd say it is a pretty good basis. I think you'll find the Pura Cup to be, in comparison, almost to International standard compared to some of the other 'crap' International teams.
Just so everyone is fully aware, my point is that Pura Cup is not the start and finish of form indicators, I am definitely not saying that Tait should leapfrog Gillespe, Kaspa and Lee and get a guernsey in the Test side, just using his form as an example.
Yeah I understand it, but if you are dominating the Pura Cup, you've got a severely large chance of causing a dent in most International squads.
Saying that, if I had to choose for the first Test squad between Lee and Tait for one position, I would go with Tait - he's proven to be consistently damaging, whilst Lee hasn't as such (probably because he rarely plays).
Personally, wouldn't bother me if we went in with McGrath, Gillespie and Kasprowicz as the bowling charge for the first Test - but, I'd like to see Lee given at least one chance.
apollo_creed
13 Jul 2005, 18:59
If Pura Cup form counted for anything, then Tait should start the first Test. I don't think that he should play the first Test, I am just pointing out that Pura Cup isn't the be all and end all. Do you expect Lee to resign for the ODI team to concentrate on playing 4day cricket for NSW to press his claims for the Test side, the only chance he gets is in the ODI games, cos, he hardly ever plays first class cricket.
Just so everyone is fully aware, my point is that Pura Cup is not the start and finish of form indicators, I am definitely not saying that Tait should leapfrog Gillespe, Kaspa and Lee and get a guernsey in the Test side, just using his form as an example.
No my man you don't understand. The three quicks in the team at the minute are established players (Dizzy's cars dangerously close to the cliff at the minute).
But if Dizzy were to lose his spot then the proper and best way for him to regain his spot would be to go back to SA and re-prove himself. As Lee hasn't done, largely not his fault but he hasn't done enough when given the oppurtunities.
Thats what happens when players get dropped from either the 1 or 5 day teams. They go back to there state in the respective form and prove themselves for another oppurtunity.
apollo_creed
13 Jul 2005, 19:05
Let me just clear something up, I'm not actually sticking up for Lee as much as people think. I just believe he deserves at least one go in the Test series to prove again what he is really like as a Test bowler. If he fails, then I'd be content to see him out of the Test squad for a while (or possibly forever).
I'd be content with that bowling line-up.
I know what you mean by how he should go back to NSW and the Pura Cup to prove himself again (and I totally agree), but whilst he's over here in England, I'd like to see him get at least one chance.
Yes, Lee DESERVES a chance if Gillespie (2 tests) or Kasper (3 or 4) don't perform and produce.
Until then in AC's view he needs to WAIT and PROVE himself. If he's good enough when the oppurtunity presents itself he will pounce like a hungry lion.
But yeah Tait all the way though. Two years of dominating a very strong national competition in a sub-standard team should be rewarded. But unfortunately for Taity rightly or wrongly (we all know which one it is) he's second in line.
But he's young, fit and sexy and he'll get his chance.
Cooldude
13 Jul 2005, 20:05
How can you expect people to take you seriously and then make a statement like that, all in the same day. You have got to be joking, surely you must realise that Kaspa is not in the Top 4, good bowler, no doubt, but, Top 4, that is as stupid as saying Brett Lee is a form Test bowler.
All you're doing is disagreeing with it, yet provided no evidence to backup your agreement apart from more "You've got to be joking" statements? How can you expect people to take you seriously by doing this?
Stats, the quality of the batsmen he has been bowling to, consistency and form, have all been in Kasper's favour, for the past year, he has been one of the top 4 quicks in the world. Of course, people don't wanna acknowledge that, because they keep thinking Kasper's a fringe bowler and should be treated as such, that's why morons kept saying dropping him
You see, DIPPER at least offered something to back him up, you offered nothing except to say that it's wrong. I'm afraid you're the one that won't be taken seriously
Cooldude
13 Jul 2005, 20:27
If Pura Cup form counted for anything, then Tait should start the first Test. I don't think that he should play the first Test, I am just pointing out that Pura Cup isn't the be all and end all. Do you expect Lee to resign for the ODI team to concentrate on playing 4day cricket for NSW to press his claims for the Test side, the only chance he gets is in the ODI games, cos, he hardly ever plays first class cricket.
He was encouraged to sign up with a county before the Ashes tour, he would've gotten considerable amount of 4 day cricket under his belt. He did not take it up
If he ain't selected, it would be of no one elses' fault but his own.
As of Tait: His chance will come, whether it's this series or soon enough, he deserves it with his performances in the strongest domestic comp in the world.
ben.carbonaro
18 Jul 2005, 21:08
Yeah, good point there.
He would of got valuable match practice if he had signed with a county and in general, would of have plenty of bowling as well due to the cinreased number of one-day cricket played by the counties.
Saying that, if I had to choose for the first Test squad between Lee and Tait for one position, I would go with Tait - he's proven to be consistently damaging, whilst Lee hasn't as such (probably because he rarely plays).Yeah, but the selectors have clearly considered Bing the next in line for an extended period of time. Obviously they are going to pick him if they think one of the incumbents are not bowling well enough to justify their position.
He leaks runs like a sieve and will averge more than 40 in this series, if he plays all tests. He is unable to bowl effectively with the old ball or on flat, lifeless tracks (ie days 3,4,5).
Lee's so called intimidation factor is a fallacy at test level and pure pace will not ruffle the English top order. He tried to intimidate the Indians the last time he played test cricket and got pasted to all parts of the each Aussie ground. The faster he bowled the faster the ball went to the boundary.
Given his last outing against in the tour match, I fear more of the same. I hope I am wrong, but have seen nothing to suggest he will be more effective in the test arena this time around than he has been over the last 4 years.
I hope Kaspa gets his chance, as the Aussie needs blokes that can take a wicket with the old ball.