View Full Version : Dilemma
Before the draft Fremantle has to trim its list to 35 players.
Bell -
Black -
Browne -
Campbell - signed till ? (but definately signed)
Josh Carr -
Matt Carr -
Cook -
Copping - signed until end of 2006
Crowley - 1st year as a rookie player. Can return to rookie list or be elevated.
Dodd - Contracted until end of 2006??
Dunn - contract ending still hasn't signed
Farmer -
Gilmore -
Grover -
Haddrill -
Haines - signed until end of 2006
Hasleby -
Hayden -
Headland -
Johnson - contract ending, still hasn't signed
Longmuir - signed until end of 2009
McManus - signed until end of 2006, possibly veteran list??
McPharlin - signed until end of 2007
Medhurst - contract ending, still hasn't signed
Mundy - signed until end of 2008
Murphy - signed until end of 2008
Parker - veteran listed (doesn't count towards the 35 players)
Pavlich - signed until end of 2007
Peake - contract ending, still hasn't signed
Polak - signed until end of 2006
Sandilands -
Schammer - signed until end of 2007/6
Schofield - signed until end of 2006
Siegert -
Smith - signed until of 2006??
Stribling - signed until end of 2006
Thornton -
Walker -
Warren - In his second year as rookie. Must be elevated or delisted.
Webster -
Woods -
Thats 41 players on the senior list. Crowley and Warren were both elevated from the rookie list. Warren can't return to the rookie list because he has already been rookie listed for 2 years. Crowley could return to the rookie list but i can't see the club returning such a promising youngster.
So essentially we have 41 players to trim to 35 before the draft. Parker is veteran listed so we are down to 40. Thats still 5 players from the list that we will lose. McManus might qualify for veteran status next year. I'm not sure. So he may not be counted towards the 35 come draft day.
I understand that you can't be delisted in your first year when your drafted. Its a 2 year contract. Is that the same for Rookie elevation? If so, similarly Smith and Dodd are 1st year players and still contracted.
Who are the 5 players that will be moved on? Woods has fallen out of favour. He is one that is on his last legs. Warren may be hard done by, i think the club will probably delist him then sign him again similarly to the Haines situation. That still leaves 3 more players to be delisted prior to the draft. Possibly Seigert. Crowley could return to the rookie list. Still leaving one spot.
Anyway i know its a long way away. I just thought i'd highlight this problem. Something to talk about to pass the time between games. Also it would be helpful if people could fill in the gaps about when players contracts end.
dominguez
18 Jul 2005, 17:13
I was thinking the same thing the other day. For the first time in our history there's going to be some very hard decisions to make on our list, and some handy players will have their careers cut short.
A couple of months ago I thought Peake was gone, but his form has been fantastic and deserves his spot. Woods will definately be delisted, he played his first good WAFL game in months on the weekend but seems disinterested. Warrens injury couldn't have come at a worse time. He has performed well in the WAFL games I've seen him play but unfortunately I don't think he will be on our list next year. The same can be said for Andrew Browne, who has played well in most of his 18 games for Freo. With all our injuries this season he could have been presented with the opportunity to step up but he hasn't been able to get on the park. Is Browne too old to be de-listed then rookie listed, because I think he has something to offer (D.O.B. 14-5-84).
Gilmore, Siegert and Webster are all handy fringe players but atleast 2 will be de-listed I think. Dunn will return to Victoria, hopefully for a top 12 pick.
Billy Hunt
18 Jul 2005, 18:32
happy gilmore will ask to be traded after winning the sandover.
Trade Schofield for a mrs mac pie.
pav_is_god
18 Jul 2005, 19:22
Trade Schofield for a mrs mac pie.
He's only worth a sausage roll.
Some of the possibilities IMO. Not saying I agree with all of these, but we need to shed at least 6 from our list and these are the guys in the firing line perhaps?
TRADE? - Dunn , Woods , Gilmore.
DELIST? - Haines , Webster , Seigert, Smith.
RETIRE? - McManus , Parker.
I understand that you can't be delisted in your first year when your drafted. Its a 2 year contract. Is that the same for Rookie elevation? If so, similarly Smith and Dodd are 1st year players and still contracted.
Its only a 2 year contract when you are first drafted AFAIK.
211 is contracted until 2007 IIRC.
Who are the 5 players that will be moved on?
I have been thinking along the same lines and thought that Young Bomber was in a bit of strife. Now the match committee might be in a bit of strife. lol.
Stibling and Copping are safe until the end of 2006.
As we have to get rid of 5 minimum I would say that Woodsie, Haines , Browne , Siegert and Smith would be in trouble at this stage.
Parker retiring will make no difference as He is a Veteran.
The best thing to do would if possible be to trade up a draft pick.
E.G. Haines and Smith and Browne + our first rounder for Carltons no 3 pick.
Cameron_K
18 Jul 2005, 21:14
I must watch different Freo matches to you Scham. Delist Smith?
The guy has been a shining light on the few occasions he has played for Fremantle, He isn't afraid to go in and get the ball in the centre which is a problem that Fremantle struggle with. I will be very very dissapointed if Smith was delisted, That would be like getting rid of a younger version of Cook, May not have the best skills yet he gives 100% every time he plays.
I must watch different Freo matches to you Scham. Delist Smith?
.
I'll repeat; " Not saying I agree with all of these, but we need to shed at least 6 from our list and these guys are in the firing line perhaps."
docker_johnno
19 Jul 2005, 00:35
They may delist players and simply redraft them.
pav_is_god
19 Jul 2005, 11:36
Of all the players mentioned, Smith is definitely one player I would not get rid of.
Dr Ralph Dagg
19 Jul 2005, 17:12
The only requirement as I undestand it is that you must use up three draft picks. You could trade 1 player for three draft picks. So you don't have to delist 5 players.
Haines was drafted so he is contracted to end of 2006. And I can't remember anything about Campbell being re-signed. Headland is also up for renewal.
Crowley and Duffield will need to be elevated. I could see Dunn and Campbell being rookie-listed. They might trade Dunn. Browne is all of 21 and has genuine pace so can't see him being let go.
Langdon had a big day out a few weeks back about MacManus being told that he has played his last game for Freo.
Even if he was fit Siegert seems to have dropped back in the pecking order behind Crowley and Dodd.
I could see McManus, Woods, Siegert being let go one way or another. Maybe Webster because I think he's on a 12 month contract. And on another thread there is a suggestion Medders is G-O-R-N. Though find it hard to believe.
I could see McManus, Woods, Siegert being let go one way or another. Maybe Webster because I think he's on a 12 month contract. And on another thread there is a suggestion Medders is G-O-R-N. Though find it hard to believe.
Macca has another year on his contract, but I think he may retire at the end of this season with dignity.
Woods and Siegert, would be the obvious ones in doubt.
Campbell has re-signed.
Medhurst has alot to offer (I reckon he is slowly working back into form). Would have to be a good trade.
Re-sign Peake and trade Medhurst.
His track record shows that you will never get a consistent efffort out of him and both he and the Dockers will benefit from the trade.
And no, we don't want him.
ExpectToWin
19 Jul 2005, 18:31
Trade Carr back to Port Adealide
dominguez
19 Jul 2005, 19:01
As we have to get rid of 5 minimum I would say that Woodsie, Haines , Browne , Siegert and Smith would be in trouble at this stage.
The best thing to do would if possible be to trade up a draft pick.
E.G. Haines and Smith and Browne + our first rounder for Carltons no 3 pick.
This would be great but I don't think anyone would trade an early draft pick for a few handy players and a later pick. We tried Woods, Grover and 2nd round pick for Josh Carr and Port weren't interested.
The 5 players you listed will be the players in the gun, although I think Browne and Smith certainly have something to offer. The problem for Smith is that he is the slowest of an already slow bunch of midfielders, and with us playing a dozen games a year at Subi it will be hard for him to get a regular spot in the 22. I think Haines would be contracted since he was drafted last year?
pav_is_god
19 Jul 2005, 19:18
Trade Carr back to Port Adealide
Sure! ;)
dominguez
19 Jul 2005, 19:18
The only requirement as I undestand it is that you must use up three draft picks. You could trade 1 player for three draft picks. So you don't have to delist 5 players.
Haines was drafted so he is contracted to end of 2006. And I can't remember anything about Campbell being re-signed. Headland is also up for renewal.
Crowley and Duffield will need to be elevated. I could see Dunn and Campbell being rookie-listed. They might trade Dunn. Browne is all of 21 and has genuine pace so can't see him being let go.
Even if he was fit Siegert seems to have dropped back in the pecking order behind Crowley and Dodd.
You also have to use any draft picks you trade for (ie we had to use the 5th rounder we got for TLo).
Campbell signed a 2 year deal about round 10 but got little publicity. It will be interesting what happens with Des. He would have come over on around $300,000 a year I would say. On form over the last 3 seasons he doesn't deserve any more than $100,000p.a.
Crowley deserves to be elevated and hopefully we can find a spot for him, but do you think Duffman deserves promotion? Does he deserve a spot on our list more than Smith, Browne or Gilmore? To rookie list Dunn we would need to de-list him first, and someone would snap him up in the national draft. The best thing for both FFC and Ryley Dunn is for him to be traded for either a 1st round pick, a tall pacey midfielder or a young ruckman at seasons end.
Agree with you on Siegert. He is a handy defensive midfielder or HBF but Crowley showed on the weekend he has more to offer in that role.
I figure that Crowley, Duffield and Warren will be elevated, plus our 3 (at least) draft picks that makes 6.
dominguez
19 Jul 2005, 19:41
I figure that Crowley, Duffield and Warren will be elevated, plus our 3 (at least) draft picks that makes 6.
But who are the 6 uncontracted players currently on our list that Duffman and Warren are better than?
They're better than a few contracted ones IMO. So what do we do Dom, just let Duffield or Warren go, or do we delist and redraft? Fairly risky! I'm sure a few clubs picking before us would love to have one of them on their rookie list.
If we've painted ourselves in a corner and have to go down this path, then its pretty poor contracting IMO.
dominguez
19 Jul 2005, 23:27
Warren is 23 so I think he is too old to be de-listed then re-listed on the rookie list. I doubt there is room on our list for him, which is a shame because a 194cm 92kg key defender would be valuable on our list, but he would be well behind Polak, Thornton, Parker, Johnson, Hadrill and Murphy to get a game. Duffield is only 20 so this option is a possibility, and his WAFL form has been pretty good. But even if we have a shocking run with injuries again next year he would be well down the pecking order.
wehavethepassion
20 Jul 2005, 00:14
Splinter, Kaiser, Gilmore will be either delisted or traded.
Dunn should be traded for a 1st round pick if there are any takers??
Macca is in danger of a delist
Second chance will be elevated and I think the match comm have alot of time for rabbit warren.
kiwi Campbell is young enough to be put onto the rookie list still leaning the game.
Duffield has been impressing in the back half for soufs. Promotion?? Might have to be cut loose.
Rumour has it the Dodd is out of contract at end of 2005 and a few clubs in the ES are keen on him
fat wombat
20 Jul 2005, 02:06
Kiwi is contracted until the end of 2007 is he not? From memory they resigned him the same time as Mundy.
ImperialPurple
20 Jul 2005, 10:24
Correct FW.
Rumour has it the Dodd is out of contract at end of 2005 and a few clubs in the ES are keen on him
I would trade him.
Dodd for Barry brooks
raffrox
20 Jul 2005, 16:10
I would trade him.
Dodd for Barry brooks
Dodd can turn into an Embley-type player. Decent size and athleticism. I wouldn't trade him.
ImperialPurple
20 Jul 2005, 16:53
Originally posted by raffrox
Dodd can turn into an Embley-type player. Decent size and athleticism.
And a bit of mongrel.
I wouldn't trade him.
Agree. No way would I trade him.
Kenny_01
20 Jul 2005, 16:54
Dodd will be a gun and the coaching staff are thankfully aware of this.
And a lot of mongrel.
That's better.
I would keep him as well.
ImperialPurple
20 Jul 2005, 16:58
:D
Pay that. A lot of mongrel - and ain't it grand!!
and ain't it grand!!
In a word: Yes.
dominguez
20 Jul 2005, 20:13
We're desperate for a bit of height in the midfield, and you want to trade Dodd? He's worth a lot more to us than he is at the trade table.
Freo Shark
20 Jul 2005, 21:22
I would trade him.
Dodd for Barry brooks
Depends what was on offer ? Barry Brooks no !
He has alot of talent and should be kept!
Very few are untradeable.
M.J. is signed up until the end of 2007. Yay (http://fremantlefc.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=218156)
dugrene
27 Jul 2005, 23:01
His star will have fully risen by then.
He will become a great player.
Seem to have right mix and attitude. 10% talent. 90% effort.
His star will have fully risen by then.
He will become a great player.
Seem to have right mix and attitude. 10% talent. 90% effort.
Too right! I see from a thread on DL that Gilmore is a required player once he sorts out a few things in his game and Woodsie is on thin ice because of his attitude.
Micheal Warren will be most likely promoted.
It could come down to a choice between Peake & Browne for the chop.
Who would you people prefer out of those two?
Hard choices coming up I think.
theGav56
27 Jul 2005, 23:33
For me, I'd keep Peake (that is, if it was a choice between those two, but that seems a bit simplistic). But realistically the gap between them to me seems miniscule. Peake appears to have better goal sense but I had read reports which savaged his accuracy and decisionmaking. Kicking accuracy is the question mark for Browne.
I'd like to see a breakdown of the list into some different categories. Backs, mid and forwards of course. But also hieght and pace. It seems we have lacked a bit of hieght in the midfiled on occassions, esp with M Carr and Headland either being missing or at tomes (DH) missing in action. Those too add something to the flea brigade.
Also in the backline, which is impossible to really assess due to injuries this year, has lacked it's running rebound until Scahmmer went back.
Warren to me has value as an alternative/backup ruckman.
Harsh realities from my flawed and inexperienced point of view is Seigert, Woods and Gilmore look like they are behind the 8 ball. The heroic Macca may have run his race. And Dunn would be worth trading and worth keeping all at the same time.
coparison between the dealer & SOB (http://finalsiren.com/PlayerCompare.asp?SeasonID=&Compare=Go&PlayerName1=Andrew+browne&PlayerName2=Brett+peake&PlayerName3=&PlayerName4=&SelectedPlayers=)
dugrene
27 Jul 2005, 23:42
It could come down to a choice between Peake & Browne for the chop.
Who would you people prefer out of those two?
Hard choices coming up I think.
With , Mundy, Murphy, Peake, Haines, Crowley, Dodd all over 180 our team is becoming tall and quick.
Browne at 174cm, to go. I know he is in and under but I think we can cover that with Crowley, Murphy and Dodd. Peake I'm not sure is built to go in and under. But he has run... and lots of it.
big buddy38
28 Jul 2005, 00:00
We'd be happy to have the dealer and Duffield off your hands if you don't want them. I've seen Duffield a few times for Souths this year and he's been excellent - a lot stronger than last year and great kick. He's also on the tall side. I reckon he'll make a good AFL footballer and certainly ready by next season.
Browne has genuine pace and can find the ball but has had several hammies this season. At 21 I'd keep him ahead of Dylan Smith, Webster, Seigert.
We'd be happy to have the dealer and Duffield off your hands if you don't want them. I've seen Duffield a few times for Souths this year and he's been excellent - a lot stronger than last year and great kick. He's also on the tall side. I reckon he'll make a good AFL footballer and certainly ready by next season.
Browne has genuine pace and can find the ball but has had several hammies this season. At 21 I'd keep him ahead of Dylan Smith, Webster, Seigert.
I think your on the mark. Browne will be kept, as will Peake. Not so sure about Duffield.
Can anyone confirm whether or not McManus will become veteran listed. As this means we can retain an extra youngster because he no longer counts towards the 35 player maximum pre-draft.
theGav56
28 Jul 2005, 01:00
Those comparative stats are interesting, and support Peake over Browne. But they would have played different roles and the club is playing a different style of football too. looks like Browne may have been tagging by his tackle count.
The telling one for me is accuracy towards goal where we know Browne has had some issues. Perhaps they have been worked on; perhaps it isn't his "go". It felt like such a waste when you'd see the team struggle to get shots on goal, and then see it in Browne's hands when he clearly lacked confidence.
Any players that will be gone seem to have a case to stay. Perhaps Woodsie has missed his opportunity, and not sure given his current WAFL form that he would get another shot. Seigert has a role to play if there is room on the list, but young blood that has "potential" can fill a similar role.
What I really want is some power and speed in the backline. I want Polak to be a dominant player at CHB. I want Haddril back and playing on a flank rather than FB. I want a fullback who matches FF's for size and strength. I want Johnson or Warren to be able to step up on the ruckmen/forwards (been a good start for Johnson). And I want the speed of Walker, Hayden and Thornton to light up from the backline to the forward line.
I want Parker to retire when he has taught them everything there is to know about playing tall and small.
wehavethepassion
28 Jul 2005, 23:17
Dodd and Second Chance add to the "mongrel" factor that has fallen sadly a lot of the time to Cookie.
Even though Coinnolly has said that Happy is required, he is tradable
With 3 to be cut and Second Chance to be elevated , 4 spots have to be created.
Happy, Splinter, Siegert, Browne, Smith(?) must be in the firing line.
If either Rabbit Warren or duffield are promoted then then it would mean 5 would need to be delisted/traded.
With the recent signing of Dunn and Johnson I've been looking at the situation a bit closer.
We will trade one of our players for a pick. Its that simple. Fremantle have put itself in such a position that it will either delist a player that has ability or someone will be traded.
The question becomes which player will we trade.
Freo Shark
30 Jul 2005, 13:35
Fremantle have put itself in such a position that it will either delist a player that has ability or someone will be traded.
Position surely thats a good position, one of the few blessings of this season. We have an idea of the quality of our depth amongst our young players on our list now and our deficiencies. I dont think we would have probably given the game time to some of these young guys otherwise. Now we know who will probably step up for us next year and put some pressure on our top 22.
I would think McManus will probably be a veteran if he doesnt retire\delisted. I think he needs to make room anyway we can even if we re-list him with a 5th round pick if we have one available. In preference to losing a young player like Happy or Browne who deserve time. Neither have done anything to be deserve to be delisted. McManus wont be picked up by anyone.
Woodsy seems destined to be delisted. Browne, Smith, Happy, Seigert are probably in the mix too as trade bait. Perhaps a mixture of them packaged together to get a high draft pick with all the extra picks likely to push us down the pecking order.
Its a delemma alright, nice position for once not to want to make any major changes.
fat wombat
30 Jul 2005, 13:54
McManus signed on last year until the end of 2006, so he's not going anywhere, he fought hard for that contract and will continue to fight hard to regain his position in the team. He will likely retire at the end of 2006.
It wouldn't surprise me to see Daniel Gilmore get traded to the bulldogs or Luke Webster to get picked up by the bombers.
I'd expect Dion Woods, Dylan Smith & Daniel Haines to get delisted.
McManus signed on last year until the end of 2006, so he's not going anywhere, he fought hard for that contract and will continue to fight hard to regain his position in the team. He will likely retire at the end of 2006.
It wouldn't surprise me to see Daniel Gilmore get traded to the bulldogs or Luke Webster to get picked up by the bombers.
I'd expect Dion Woods, Dylan Smith & Daniel Haines to get delisted.
Your absolutely right. Thats most likely to happen. But thats where i see the problem. I hope freo doesn't give up one of its promising youngsters. Because they go cheap. The upside is definately with the club getting the player. They have massive room for improvement and they have given little to get them. A seemingly low risk investment. This is definately the case for Gilmore.
I would prefer Fremantle keep the youngsters than trade them. I find it interesting that Fremantle would sign Dunn before they signed Medhurst. Medhurst is probably our only 'high profile' player who hasn't signed for next year. By high profile i mean player who is currently considered in our best 22. Though i can't see him being traded, an indication will be if he's dropped for Farmer next week.
If Medhurst is dropped for Farmers return next week AND If the team succeeds without Medhurst the chance of him being traded would of increased greatly. But then again, thats a lot of if's.
McManus is too proud to finish his AFL career with a full season in the twos.
He'll retire at seasons end for sure for sure.
dominguez
30 Jul 2005, 19:05
Your absolutely right. Thats most likely to happen. But thats where i see the problem. I hope freo doesn't give up one of its promising youngsters. Because they go cheap. The upside is definately with the club getting the player. They have massive room for improvement and they have given little to get them. A seemingly low risk investment. This is definately the case for Gilmore.
I would prefer Fremantle keep the youngsters than trade them. I find it interesting that Fremantle would sign Dunn before they signed Medhurst. Medhurst is probably our only 'high profile' player who hasn't signed for next year. By high profile i mean player who is currently considered in our best 22. Though i can't see him being traded, an indication will be if he's dropped for Farmer next week.
If Medhurst is dropped for Farmers return next week AND If the team succeeds without Medhurst the chance of him being traded would of increased greatly. But then again, thats a lot of if's.
It would be nice to keep all the players currently on our list, but the reality is that 4-6 players have to be cut. The older players like Cook, Bell and Parker are quality required players, McManus is contracted, so it's going to have to be the younger guys who get cut. The fact that Gilmore has struggled to get a game considering our injuries indicates his position on the list is vulnerable.
If Medhurst is to be traded he will remain in the 22, because his value will drop if he is playing WAFL.
McManus is too proud to finish his AFL career with a full season in the twos.
He'll retire at seasons end for sure for sure.
I agree.
I hate seeing players dribble into retirement. They must know when their time is up.
All in all, Macca has done alot for Freo.
Freo Shark
2 Aug 2005, 09:43
Macca I think will be on the veterans list next year I hope. Otherwise he must get pushed into retirement. He is not worth a place in place of a youngster.
Haines I dont think can get culled, he was (re) drafted last year. Woods, Seigert, Smith are under threat. Webster and Gilmore are tradebait.
Campbell I would have dropped and either re-drafted him onto the senior list or maybe the rookie if that was possible but he's been re-signed. So I wonder whether CC etc have their targets set ?
wehavethepassion
2 Aug 2005, 12:17
Bomber peake is not signed and the Slime and Geelong are sniffing around. also 2-3 Vic clubs are interested in One Melee - still unsigned. :cool:
theGav56
2 Aug 2005, 16:20
If other clubs are sniffing around at our players then that is excellent news. Not only does it mean that they look like decent players to others who actually may have two eyes open, but it is the best way to get decent trades. Corey Enright would be way beyond a "handy" pick up. Would prefer to see players developed, but if players want to leave and we can't offer them the right deal to keep them then trades will happen.