Who are the best 10 players since 2000?

[Gunnar Longshanks]

What do you reckon would be a fair top 10 list since (and including) 2000?

1. Michael Voss
2. Nathan Buckley
3. James Hird
4. Mark Ricciuto
5. Jason Akermanis
6. Matthew Lloyd
7. Warren Tredrea
8. Scott West
9. Brad Johnson
10. Simon Black

What do you reckon?

It's actually pretty hard to fill those last few spots.

[The Schammerman #3]

What do you reckon would be a fair top 10 list since (and including) 2000?

1. Michael Voss
2. Nathan Buckley
3. James Hird
4. Mark Ricciuto
5. Jason Akermanis
6. Matthew Lloyd
7. Scott West
8. Simon Black
9. Ben Cousins
10. Brad Johnson

What do you reckon?

It's actually pretty hard to fill those last few spots.
Thats actually a very good list although maybe Buckley should be number 1 if your doing on consistency.

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Thats actually a very good list although maybe Buckley should be number 1 if your doing on consistency.Voss was 3-time premiership Captain. Enough said.

[Bresh]

W. Tredrea by any chance?

[Nightwolf]

Shane Crawford: "Jeese, ive been fair dinkum robbed!"

[dan warna]

Robert harvey :D

the old warrior still racks up the quality ball, and he's as much to do with St Kilda's revival and survival than the NKOTB

[Gunnar Longshanks]

W. Tredrea by any chance?Noted.

[Dandy_GO]

Yeah, I'd agree with that list.
I think there's perhaps a case for Peter Bell. I believe since 2000 he's been in the top 20 for average disposals per game every year. Topped the list in 2001 I think.
Bit like Scott West (although not quite of his caliber) in that he gets a hell of a lot of the ball, just happens to be with an underachieving team.
Not sure if he's quite best 10 material, but he'd have to be close.

[nut]

W. Tredrea by any chance?

2000 and beyond
Trerdea 138 games 322 goals(2.3 per game) 1060(7.6) marks

Richo 96 dames 269(2.8) goals 737 (7.7) marks

[Strawberry Pancakes]

1. West

[Gunnar Longshanks]

2000 and beyond
Trerdea 138 games 322 goals(2.3 per game) 1060(7.6) marks

Richo 96 dames 269(2.8) goals 737 (7.7) marksWhy has Tredrea played 40 more games?

[just maybe]

10. Ben Cousins


No, apart from this season hasn't been anywhere near the competition top 10.

[Gunnar Longshanks]

No, apart from this season hasn't been anywhere near the competition top 10.What would your top 10 list look like?

[scarecrow2k1]

More finals series coupled with Richo having Hammy problems

[pafc4life]

Tredrea > Richardson in every aspect

[just maybe]

What would your top 10 list look like?

Tough to call, because very few have been consistently brilliant over that time, but a few names in contention might be:

Mark Ricciuto
Michael Voss
Nathan Buckley
Barry Hall
Warren Tredrea
Jason Akermanis
Peter Everitt
Jeff White
Nathan Brown (Richmond)
Matthew Pavlich

[SirBloodyIdiot]

No West?

So you take Pavlich over one brilliant year, over West with 4 out of 5?

[Nightwolf]

Im shocked Crawf is not beeing included, but Cousins or Nathan Brown is, PAHHHLEASE!!!! :rolleyes:

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Tough to call, because very few have been consistently brilliant over that time, but a few names in contention might be:

Mark Ricciuto
Michael Voss
Nathan Buckley
Barry Hall
Warren Tredrea
Jason Akermanis
Peter Everitt
Jeff White
Nathan Brown (Richmond)
Matthew PavlichNo Black, West, Hird or Lloyd?

I'd pick them ahead of White, Everitt, Hall and Pavlich.

How many good seasons have those last 4 had?

[Macca_2311]

Tough to call, because very few have been consistently brilliant over that time, but a few names in contention might be:

Mark Ricciuto
Michael Voss
Nathan Buckley
Barry Hall
Warren Tredrea
Jason Akermanis
Peter Everitt
Jeff White
Nathan Brown (Richmond)
Matthew Pavlich

The Roo definatly deserves number one spot. He got the brownlow in 2003 and polled even better last year. So does Browny, he dominated at the Bulldogs and Tiges and was dominating this year. Would like to see West on the list.

[konstas_87]

W. Tredrea by any chance?
Tredrea maybe a smidge later, awesome list.

[Gunnar Longshanks]

The Roo definatly deserves number one spot. He got the brownlow in 2003 and polled even better last year. So does Browny, he dominated at the Bulldogs and Tiges and was dominating this year. Would like to see West on the list.Ricciuto is an absolute champion, but I don't think there's any doubt that Voss is #1.

He was 3-time premiership captain and Norm Smith Medalist. He was also the best player in the greatest team of all time. Case closed.

[col44]

I don't think that list is a very good one.
Peronsonally I think Buckley was much better before 2000 as was Hird and Voss.

Haven't all three missed at least 10 games in that time. (Except maybe Voss who just continues to play injured)

Certainly not at their best during the last 5 seasons. Very different question to best players to have played in that period! Or does it mean players recruited after 2000?
Barring Buckley's brownlow year.

A last five seasons best (couldn't stop at 10):

1. Brad Johnson
Tredrea
Ricciuto
Jeff White
Peter Everitt
Akermanis
Black
Lloyd
Matera
P.Williams
B.Hall
P.Bell
NG Brown
McLeod
Cousins
S.West
M.Michael
J.Leppitch
J.Fletcher
M.Scarlett
L.Barry
B.Harvey
Crawford
R.Smith
S.King
Yze

[Death]

1. Ricciuto
2. Tredrea

Each had 4 out of 5 AA selections.

[col44]

1. Ricciuto
2. Tredrea

Each had 4 out of 5 AA selections.

Yeah do you think that team success had anything to do with that?

If B Johnson played in finals he would have been first picked every time.

Brad not Ben

[just maybe]

No Black, West, Hird or Lloyd?

I'd pick them ahead of White, Everitt, Hall and Pavlich.

How many good seasons have those last 4 had?

I said they were names in contention. It is not my 'top 10'.

And you clearly haven't been watching Pavlich if you think this is his first good season. He has been good every season since debut - as a defender, midfielder and forward. He was AA in both 2002 and 2003 and probably will be this season.

Everitt has been consistently good for years, hence the reason for picking him.

Hall, in the year before he went to Sydney and his whole time at Sydney, has been excellent.

Jeff White has been one of the premier ruckmen in the competition.

I don't think Hird has as much impact as he used to. Lloyd would probably get a guernsey, yes. West I don't rate highly - I'd rather 20 McLeod possessions than 40 West possessions. He is class, but I don't consider him damaging enough to rate as a top 10 player. Simon Black is very good but his disposal lets him down at times, although he'd go close. Definitely top 20-30.

[Gunnar Longshanks]

I said they were names in contention. It is not my 'top 10'.You criticised my top 10, so I asked for yours. It's pretty easy to list a bunch of guys who are "in contention".

And you clearly haven't been watching Pavlich if you think this is his first good season.I don't recall saying anything to that effect.

Unlike you, I'm focused on a top 10, rather than just a list of contenders.

So, what's your top 10?

[just maybe]

I'd need a lot more time to make a top 10 than just randomly typing one up. Remember, I prefer to base my decisions on the actual impact these players have on games (hence the reason Scott West wouldn't feature in my top 10), unlike you who historically has admitted the simplest raw stats are enough for you to make your shallow judgments.

[Bretski]

cousins came very close the the brownlow in 2002 and 2003 and i think did very well in 2000 and 2001 as well, and obviusly this year as well, so im sure he'd coem close to top 10 wouldnt he? ah well, i just love benny thats all, lol

[Bretski]

Matera

why mater? he was awesome in the 90's definatly not from 2000 (when did he retire? 2002 was it? forgot) but hes definatly not up there...unless ur thinking of Phil in which case your way off :D lol

[melbournemartin]

Cousins perhaps?

[Macpie]

What do you reckon would be a fair top 10 list since (and including) 2000?

1. Michael Voss
2. Nathan Buckley
3. James Hird
4. Mark Ricciuto
5. Jason Akermanis
6. Matthew Lloyd
7. Warren Tredrea
8. Scott West
9. Brad Johnson
10. Simon Black

What do you reckon?

It's actually pretty hard to fill those last few spots.

not going to argue with you about the order but basically happy with the list EXCEPT

In: Cousins, Hall
Out: Lloyd, Johnson

[Helix]

Ricciuto is an absolute champion, but I don't think there's any doubt that Voss is #1.

He was 3-time premiership captain and Norm Smith Medalist. He was also the best player in the greatest team of all time. Case closed.
When was Voss a Norm Smith medalist? 2001 was Shaun Hart, 2002 was N Buckley and 2003 was Simon Black.

[nut]

Tredrea > Richardson in every aspect What ever :rolleyes:

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Does anyone feel like updating this list?

[jko'neal]

Could you argue the Brownlow Medal (aka The Midfield Medal) winners from 2000 to 2005 be on the list.Or don't we rate the "MORONS" who vote for that medal?

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Could you argue the Brownlow Medal (aka The Midfield Medal) winners from 2000 to 2005 be on the list.Or don't we rate the "MORONS" who vote for that medal?The Brownlow is a great honour for the guy who wins it.

But everyone knows it's not a definitive reflection of who is the league's best player.

I certainly wouldn't set much store in who won the Brownlow when compiling this list.

[Southerntakeover]

Im suprised that Andrew McLeod doesnt figure more prominently in these discussions. Based on early naughties form, he was the dominant midfielder in the league.

[Rough_Edges]

1. Harvey.
2. Buckley
3. Hird
4. Voss.
5. Aker
6. West
7. TREDDDRAE
8. Lllllllllllloyd
9. B.Johnson
10. S.Black.

wow i am amazing.

[Gunnar Longshanks]

1. Harvey.
2. Buckley
3. Hird
4. Voss.
5. Aker
6. West
7. TREDDDRAE
8. Lllllllllllloyd
9. B.Johnson
10. S.Black.
No Ricciuto?

[coasting]

If you looked at the Brownlow votes from 2000-2005 it would probably give you a very rough indication of the best performed players in the last 5 years.

[Kurtis G]

Tredrea > Richardson in every aspect
The facts are right there.

Better goals per game average, better marks per game average. Those are the two most important stats for key forwards, but I would like to see a disposal chart matching the two since 2000 as well.

Tredrea has had the advantage of playing in a succesful team. Richo's above stats better Tredrea's and he has had a top 2 midfield delivering him the ball in the past five seasons.

Richo also has a heart and a personality.

Richo > Tredrea.

[Allefgib]

The facts are right there.

Better goals per game average, better marks per game average. Those are the two most important stats for key forwards, but I would like to see a disposal chart matching the two since 2000 as well.

Tredrea has had the advantage of playing in a succesful team. Richo's above stats better Tredrea's and he has had a top 2 midfield delivering him the ball in the past five seasons.

Richo also has a heart and a personality.

Richo > Tredrea.

Fairly easy to mount an argument that guys in successful teams actually have to see their numbers go down a little so the rest of the talent around them touches the footy to ensure team success. I don't think too many would argue with that thought and I also don't think many would contemplate saying the tiges had talent around richo that treadrea did at port. Stick chad cornes in the same forward line as richo for a season or 2 and see how his stats look then :)

[PAFC2004]

2000 and beyond
Trerdea 138 games 322 goals(2.3 per game) 1060(7.6) marks

Richo 96 dames 269(2.8) goals 737 (7.7) marks

2000 and beyond

Treadrea: 1 premiership
"Richo": 0 premierships

[PAFC2004]

The facts are right there.

Better goals per game average, better marks per game average. Those are the two most important stats for key forwards, but I would like to see a disposal chart matching the two since 2000 as well.

Tredrea has had the advantage of playing in a succesful team. Richo's above stats better Tredrea's and he has had a top 2 midfield delivering him the ball in the past five seasons.

Richo also has a heart and a personality.

Richo > Tredrea.

Utter garbage. For a start, we have other tall forwards (and short forwards) who kick many goals, taking some of the focus off Tredrea. Tredrea does a lot more than just lead from the square and have a cry when the kick isn't absolutely perfect.

And as for 'heart and personality', it has nothing to do with footy, and I think your sources for that comment are wrong.

[Kurtis G]

Utter garbage. For a start, we have other tall forwards (and short forwards) who kick many goals, taking some of the focus off Tredrea. Tredrea does a lot more than just lead from the square and have a cry when the kick isn't absolutely perfect.

And as for 'heart and personality', it has nothing to do with footy, and I think your sources for that comment are wrong.
Dribble dribble. Show me a stat that proves Tredrea has been a better player than Richo since 2000 and I will gladly concede.

Oh and that excludes a premiership count. You do know that Locket and Ablett senior dont have a premiership medal between them and Ben Marsh has one dont you?

[incubi]

The Roo definatly deserves number one spot. He got the brownlow in 2003 and polled even better last year. So does Browny, he dominated at the Bulldogs and Tiges and was dominating this year. Would like to see West on the list.
Brown was never higher than the dogs third best player, so really has no chance of getting into the top 10. West and johnson were always better than brown, and grant at the start of the decade was better.

[Total Power]

Dribble dribble. Show me a stat that proves Tredrea has been a better player than Richo since 2000 and I will gladly concede.

Oh and that excludes a premiership count. You do know that Locket and Ablett senior dont have a premiership medal between them and Ben Marsh has one dont you?
Considering he did **** all from 1997-1999, dont be surprised if his stats are actually better or close to richo atleast.Also Richo has twice the number of "errors" or dummy spits 5.7 to tredrea's 3.0 per game. As far as goals are concerned its not too bad, its 1.9 to 1.7, and considering he did F ALL in his first few years, he should be AHEAD actually. :cool:

[doppleganger]

Ricciuto is an absolute champion, but I don't think there's any doubt that Voss is #1.

He was 3-time premiership captain and Norm Smith Medalist. He was also the best player in the greatest team of all time. Case closed.
Voss never won a norm smith, ur opinion doesn't make it so, especially when u dont actually know the facts.

Funny that in ur original top ten u had Voss 1, Aker 5, Black 8...........not hard to see why the brions won 3 flags in a row when u add names like Lappin, Brown, Lynch, Leppa, Michael, C.Johnson etc

Not the greatest team of all time either by the way

[St DAC]

In no particlar order:

M. Voss
S. Lappin
W. Tredrea
M. Ricciuto
A. McLeod
J. Hird
B. Johnson
S. West
N. Buckley
C. Judd

[pafc4life]

Dribble dribble. Show me a stat that proves Tredrea has been a better player than Richo since 2000 and I will gladly concede.

Oh and that excludes a premiership count. You do know that Locket and Ablett senior dont have a premiership medal between them and Ben Marsh has one dont you?

I can think of a few off the top of my head:

Warren Tredrea

2001 All-Australian Centre Half Forward
2002 All-Australian Centre Half Forward
2003 All-Australian Centre Half Forward
2004 All-Australian Centre Half Forward (Vice Captain)

2001 Port Adelaide Best & Fairest
2004 Port Adelaide Best & Fairest
2005 Port Adelaide Best & Fairest

VS

Matty Richardson

1996 All-Australian Reserve
1999 All-Australian Forward Pocket

How many B & F's? None?

[Magpie Mick]

Tough to call, because very few have been consistently brilliant over that time, but a few names in contention might be:

Mark Ricciuto
Michael Voss
Nathan Buckley
Barry Hall
Warren Tredrea
Jason Akermanis
Peter Everitt
Jeff White
Nathan Brown (Richmond)
Matthew Pavlich

I like Gunners list much better. Who do you barrack for again?

[Helix]

Glad to see the Warren brigade back. Where did you all go?

[afc9798]

In no particlar order:

M. Voss
S. Lappin
W. Tredrea
M. Ricciuto
A. McLeod
J. Hird
B. Johnson
S. West
N. Buckley
C. Judd
Fair list, but a couple of points:
a) I assume you mean Nigel Lappin not S.Lappin or M.Lappin
b) I think Robert Harvey has to be in that list at the expense of West, who would be the unlucky No.11.
c) My order for the top 10
1. Voss
2. Buckley
3. Ricciuto
4. Hird (due to the amount of time iinjured since 2000)
5. C.Judd (probably today's best, but not enough longevity yet)
6. Andrew McLeod (4 brilliant seasons since 2000)
7. Robert Harvey (2 Brownlows, AA's, longevity and class)
8. Warren Tredrea (AA's, Premiership captain)
9. Simon Black (cornerstone of the threepeat)
10. Nigel Lappin (see above)

[DG-Man]

I can think of a few off the top of my head:

Warren Tredrea

2001 All-Australian Centre Half Forward
2002 All-Australian Centre Half Forward
2003 All-Australian Centre Half Forward
2004 All-Australian Centre Half Forward (Vice Captain)

2001 Port Adelaide Best & Fairest
2004 Port Adelaide Best & Fairest
2005 Port Adelaide Best & Fairest

VS

Matty Richardson

1996 All-Australian Reserve
1999 All-Australian Forward Pocket

How many B & F's? None?

I think it is time to concede. Tredrea has been far superior to Richo. Not even close. Surely even Tiger fans can read these stats and accept this!

[Lightning_Rod]

wanganeen anyone? i know he was more porminant in the norties but his performances from 2000-2004 are on track with many in those produced lists.

[Lightning_Rod]

I think it is time to concede. Tredrea has been far superior to Richo. Not even close. Surely even Tiger fans can read these stats and accept this!

i doubt this very highly, they are blind to the blantantly obvious.

MATHEW WHO:confused: :rolleyes: :p

[lazy]

A Goodes get under-rated again even though he won a Brownlow.

Barry Hall rated best player in the comp this year, Premiership captain also misses out huh?

Both players have been better than White.

[Gunnar Longshanks]

I dont understand why on the Polls Board, you rate Cousins higher than Black, and even though both have played since 2000, you have put Black in your top 10 list and not Cousins. Slightly contradictory.I rate Cousins more highly over the course of his career.

Cousins was a gun pre-2000, but those performances don't effect this list.

Since 2000 Black had a slight edge, at least at the time I posted that list.

Not remotely contradictory.

Cousins' pre-2000 performances effect the way I measure his career against Simon Black's, but those performances have no bearing on this list.

Understand?

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Voss never won a norm smith, ur opinion doesn't make it so, especially when u dont actually know the facts.An oversight on my part.

We all know he deserved the Norm Smith in 2002.

[Gunnar Longshanks]

My order for the top 10
1. Voss
2. Buckley
3. Ricciuto
4. Hird (due to the amount of time iinjured since 2000)
5. C.Judd (probably today's best, but not enough longevity yet)
6. Andrew McLeod (4 brilliant seasons since 2000)
7. Robert Harvey (2 Brownlows, AA's, longevity and class)
8. Warren Tredrea (AA's, Premiership captain)
9. Simon Black (cornerstone of the threepeat)
10. Nigel Lappin (see above)How many Brownlows and AAs did Harvey win post-2000?

This list is not about "which current player has had the most decorated career".

Do people really set that much store in Brownlows and AA selections?

Every year these awards are roundly criticised and dismissed as irrelevant, yet people still cite them to support arguments.

It's frustrating.

[Gunnar Longshanks]

What do you reckon would be a fair top 10 list since (and including) 2000?

1. Michael Voss
2. Nathan Buckley
3. James Hird
4. Mark Ricciuto
5. Jason Akermanis
6. Matthew Lloyd
7. Warren Tredrea
8. Scott West
9. Brad Johnson
10. Simon Black

What do you reckon?

It's actually pretty hard to fill those last few spots.Possibly time to update this.

Judd and Cousins would be pushing pretty hard into this group.

Has Voss been knocked off that perch?

[TigerGlory]

Surprised theres no Chris Judd.

If its SINCE 2000, then Judd has had three years 04-06, where hes clearly been the best player in the comp. Surprised theres been no mention.

Mine(in no particular order):

Michael Voss
James Hird
Robert Harvey
Chris Judd
Jason Akermanis
Nathan G Brown
Ben Cousins
Jonathan Brown
Brad Johnson
Nathan Buckley

[Smash`N`Grab]

Tredrea > Richardson in every aspect

Not according to the stats

Accoring to finals football and premerships no argument here

[judburyjets]

Nathan G Brown


Has been good, but not in the top ten in that period IMO. Was dominant in 05 until injury, but not good enough to be in the top 10 in that time. How about Pavlich everyone? 4 AA's now in the 7 year period, I would rate him in the top 5 or 6 in that period.

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Surprised theres no Chris Judd.

If its SINCE 2000, then Judd has had three years 04-06, where hes clearly been the best player in the comp. Surprised theres been no mention.

Mine(in no particular order):

Michael Voss
James Hird
Robert Harvey
Chris Judd
Jason Akermanis
Nathan G Brown
Ben Cousins
Jonathan Brown
Brad Johnson
Nathan BuckleyIs that a joke, mate?

Mark Ricciuto? Scott West?

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Has been good, but not in the top ten in that period IMO. Was dominant in 05 until injury, but not good enough to be in the top 10 in that time. How about Pavlich everyone? 4 AA's now in the 7 year period, I would rate him in the top 5 or 6 in that period.Pavlich probably suffers from the fact that he hasn't had many opportunities to turn it on it finals.

Everyone knows he's good, but he hasn't imposed himself on those big games.

Of course, Freo have only played 3 finals, but he's been so-so in those.

[Kenny_01]

Pavlich has to be in the team.

We have had 6 seasons since 2000. Pavlich has been AA in 4 of those. The 2 years he wasn't in the AA side, he lead our goal kicking in 2001 and top 3 B&F, and was top 3 B&F in 2004 as well. If that isn't consistancy, I don't know what is. Also has only missed 1 game since 2000.

[Lions43]

Interesting debate and I think good cases can be made for 16 players personally...

The players that just must be in the top top since 2000 by any reasonable measure would be...

Voss
Buckley
Ricciuto
Tredrea
Black
Cousins

The players that would fight out the last 4 spots would be...

Akermanis
West
N.Lappin
Judd (clearly in top 10 on quality but gives the rest of the field 3 years start)
Bell
Hall

The players that I couldn't quite fit in though they have been excellent...

Johnson - very good but not quite the game breaking quality over the 7 years
McLeod - all class but has had some inconsistent years amongst the last 7
Pavlich - see Johnson - agree with Gunnar that lack of finals holds him back
Hird - been great in patches but just missed too much footy

If I had to drop 2 from that second bunch it would probably be Bell and Hall but both are stiff. I may be criticised for Lions bias for having the entire fab 4 in there but there have been 6 flags decided since 2000 and the Lions have 3 of them so they are entitled to dominate. As good as Lappin was from 2000-2004 he would have to drop out for Bell or Hall next year if he can't get on the park again due to injury.

[Helix]

Interesting debate and I think good cases can be made for 16 players personally...

The players that just must be in the top top since 2000 by any reasonable measure would be...

Voss
Buckley
Ricciuto
Tredrea
Black
Cousins

The players that would fight out the last 4 spots would be...

Akermanis
West
N.Lappin
Judd (clearly in top 10 on quality but gives the rest of the field 3 years start)
Bell
Hall

The players that I couldn't quite fit in though they have been excellent...

Johnson - very good but not quite the game breaking quality over the 7 years
McLeod - all class but has had some inconsistent years amongst the last 7
Pavlich - see Johnson - agree with Gunnar that lack of finals holds him back
Hird - been great in patches but just missed too much footy

If I had to drop 2 from that second bunch it would probably be Bell and Hall but both are stiff. I may be criticised for Lions bias for having the entire fab 4 in there but there have been 6 flags decided since 2000 and the Lions have 3 of them so they are entitled to dominate. As good as Lappin was from 2000-2004 he would have to drop out for Bell or Hall next year if he can't get on the park again due to injury.

Add Matthew Lloyd, Adam Goodes, Peter Everitt, Josh Carr, Shane Crawford, Robert Harvey.... Someone is always going to be stiff, but a good effort.

[TipTruck]

1.Voss
2.Buckley
3.Ricciutto
4.Hall
5.Hird
6.Judd
7.Tredrea
8.Cousins
9.Pavlich
10.West


Hall has been a glaring omission

Has averged 60 goals since 2000 - and 70 since moving to Sydney - playing a lot of football at centre half forward

[danzan22]

I don't think that list is a very good one.
Peronsonally I think Buckley was much better before 2000 as was Hird and Voss.

Haven't all three missed at least 10 games in that time. (Except maybe Voss who just continues to play injured)

Certainly not at their best during the last 5 seasons. Very different question to best players to have played in that period! Or does it mean players recruited after 2000?
Barring Buckley's brownlow year.

A last five seasons best (couldn't stop at 10):

1. Brad Johnson
Tredrea
Ricciuto
Jeff White
Peter Everitt
Akermanis
Black
Lloyd
Matera
P.Williams
B.Hall
P.Bell
NG Brown
McLeod
Cousins
S.West
M.Michael
J.Leppitch
J.Fletcher
M.Scarlett
L.Barry
B.Harvey
Crawford
R.Smith
S.King
Yze

no hird, he came like 3rd in a brownlow won a norm smith but no, and whois j fletcher

[eathb]

I can think of a few off the top of my head:

Warren Tredrea

2001 All-Australian Centre Half Forward
2002 All-Australian Centre Half Forward
2003 All-Australian Centre Half Forward
2004 All-Australian Centre Half Forward (Vice Captain)

2001 Port Adelaide Best & Fairest
2004 Port Adelaide Best & Fairest
2005 Port Adelaide Best & Fairest

VS

Matty Richardson

1996 All-Australian Reserve
1999 All-Australian Forward Pocket

How many B & F's? None?

Also Tredders would average like 3.4 goals+ if he kicked straight :rolleyes:

And also in the 2004 brownlow Tredrea got rigged >< y was he given 1 vote for 5-goal performances??? and sometimes none at all?

[waspy]

In rough order...

Voss
Hird
Buckley
Ricciuto
Tredrea
Judd
Akermanis
McLeod
Pavlich
Hall

[Hard Ball Get]

Anyone that doesnt have West is fair dinkum kidding themselves.
Johnson has also been stunning since 2000 and would be close to top 10.

[Howard Littlejohn]

B Voss
R Harvey
Judd
Hird
Riccuito
West
Tredrea
Pavlich
Buckley
S Black

There's a remarkable lack of key position players there.

[westernnugget]

No, apart from this season hasn't been anywhere near the competition top 10.

Hasn't he been All Australian for most of the Century. 6 time AA selection or something.

[SIR SAINT HOTDOG]

r harvye should definately be there. he is still domianting

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Interesting debate and I think good cases can be made for 16 players personally...

The players that just must be in the top top since 2000 by any reasonable measure would be...

Voss
Buckley
Ricciuto
Tredrea
Black
Cousins

The players that would fight out the last 4 spots would be...

Akermanis
West
N.Lappin
Judd (clearly in top 10 on quality but gives the rest of the field 3 years start)
Bell
Hall
Hird over Bell. Easily.

[Thewlis Dish]

Pretty sure he just forgot Hird, although I'm not sure how you can think of the names Voss and Buckley without automatically adding Jim.

[mudgeathon]

Even though I go for West Coast, the number of people leaving out Ben Cousins is astonishing.

Since 2000 he has been a
4 x AA
Brownlow Medalist
AFL MVP
West Coast Captain from 2001 - 2005
4 x B/F

Brownlow Results [the good :D]
2006 - ? [Should go top 5 though]
2005 - winner
2003 - equal 2nd
2002 - equal 4th
2001 - equal 4th

[Snuka]

Gonna have a go, can't resist....although I have a tendency to rate players on how influential they are in there team's wins. So not neccessarily the most skilled or fit, but most important to winning so it will be mostly players from teams that have had some sort of success...

1. M Voss
2. J Hird
3. M Lloyd
4. J Akermanis
5. N Buckley
6. W Tredrea
7. A Lynch
8. B Hall
9. C Judd
10. M Richardson

There is not much difference between 1st and 10th. Feel free to blast me for omitting guys like Ricciuto, Cousins, Scarlett, Harvey, J White etc.

[Lions43]

Hird over Bell. Easily.

Fremantle hatred or just a mistaken perception....

Bell/Hird (per game) since 2000

Disposals 25.5/20.4
Marks 4.4/5.2
Contested Marks 0.4/1.1
Tackles 4.5/3
Goals 0.8/1.2
1st Possessions 4.2/3.4
Clearances 3/2.8
Inside 50's 3.1/4.1
Contested Possessions 2.7/4.1
1%ers 4.3/3.8
Errors 3.4/3.8
Error/Disposal Ratio 0.13/0.19

I know stats don't always tell the whole story but over 7 years in key categories such as the above they are pretty compelling and Bell leads Hird in most categories. On top of that he has played 24 more games (a season of footy) which must be taken into account. Not only does Bell get more of the ball, but he turns it over a lot less than Hird (about one in every 8 times compared to one in every five).

I've no doubt Hird is the better footballer overall, but a lot of his superior play was before 2000 so on the basis of the thread I think there is a very reasonable case to say Bell has been the better player. Certainly to suggest Hird has been clearly better is a fallacy.

[Truck Rutten]

Im suprised that Andrew McLeod doesnt figure more prominently in these discussions. Based on early naughties form, he was the dominant midfielder in the league.

Agreed. Would easily be in the 10 best players from season 2000 to now.

[Blacky31]

Cousins should definately be there...
and I ****ing hate West Coast!!!
Along with
West
Ricciuto
Buckley
Brad Johnson
Voss
Aker
Tredrea
Hird
N.Lappin

[giantroo]

What do you reckon would be a fair top 10 list since (and including) 2000?

1. Michael Voss
2. Nathan Buckley
3. James Hird
4. Mark Ricciuto
5. Jason Akermanis
6. Matthew Lloyd
7. Warren Tredrea
8. Scott West
9. Brad Johnson
10. Simon Black

What do you reckon?

It's actually pretty hard to fill those last few spots.


Aint there Judd. Entered footy in 2001.

[BigCat2]

With these lists there's always going to be champion players left out.

Also, you'll see that most top 10 lists have 7-8 midfielders, and less big men. It's the same with the Brownlow.

How about if we made it a Team of the Century (2000 inclusive)? Then you'd be able to name a starting 18 (mostly in position), and add interchange/emergency as you like. This would mean that gun KPPs aren't underrepresented.

[Magpie Mick]

I don't think that list is a very good one.
Peronsonally I think Buckley was much better before 2000 as was Hird and Voss.

Haven't all three missed at least 10 games in that time. (Except maybe Voss who just continues to play injured)

Certainly not at their best during the last 5 seasons. Very different question to best players to have played in that period! Or does it mean players recruited after 2000?
Barring Buckley's brownlow year.

A last five seasons best (couldn't stop at 10):

1. Brad Johnson
Tredrea
Ricciuto
Jeff White
Peter Everitt
Akermanis
Black
Lloyd
Matera
P.Williams
B.Hall
P.Bell
NG Brown
McLeod
Cousins
S.West
M.Michael
J.Leppitch
J.Fletcher
M.Scarlett
L.Barry
B.Harvey
Crawford
R.Smith
S.King
Yze

Clement with two AA (and should have been three!!!) yet not mentioned. Oh that's right he plays for Collingwood!!! Has been much better than 80% of your list!!!

[Lukazzz777]

What do you reckon would be a fair top 10 list since (and including) 2000?

1. Michael Voss
2. Nathan Buckley
3. James Hird
4. Mark Ricciuto
5. Jason Akermanis
6. Matthew Lloyd
7. Warren Tredrea
8. Scott West
9. Brad Johnson
10. Simon Black

What do you reckon?

It's actually pretty hard to fill those last few spots.

Chris Judd

DAYLIGHT

Your list...

[Belly]

Clement with two AA (and should have been three!!!) yet not mentioned. Oh that's right he plays for Collingwood!!! Has been much better than 80% of your list!!!

He's only better then King, maybe.

[Nick Stojkovski]

Crawf easily in top 10

[mrbehemoth]

Does Barry Hall deserve a spot, on the strength of 2003-06?

[mrbehemoth]

Ricciuto is an absolute champion, but I don't think there's any doubt that Voss is #1.

He was 3-time premiership captain and Norm Smith Medalist. He was also the best player in the greatest team of all time. Case closed.

Voss never won a Norm Smith. Should have, but didn't.

[mrbehemoth]

Could you argue the Brownlow Medal (aka The Midfield Medal) winners from 2000 to 2005 be on the list.Or don't we rate the "MORONS" who vote for that medal?

All the Brownlow medal winners from 2000-05 have been great over the period except for Woewodin, who only had the one good year. But Akermanis, Black, Buckley, Ricciuto, Goodes, Judd, Cousins? Yeah, could argue for all of them.

[mrbehemoth]

I think it is time to concede. Tredrea has been far superior to Richo. Not even close. Surely even Tiger fans can read these stats and accept this!

You'd hope so. It's not an insult to Richo at all, I think.

[mrbehemoth]

Also Tredders would average like 3.4 goals+ if he kicked straight :rolleyes:

And also in the 2004 brownlow Tredrea got rigged >< y was he given 1 vote for 5-goal performances??? and sometimes none at all?

Because forwards don't get the votes they deserve in the Brownlow. Riewoldt got gypped that year too, they were both better in 04 than Judd.

It's not a Tredrea thing, it's a forward thing.

[linkman]

8. Warren Tredrea (AA's, Premiership captain)
10. Nigel Lappin (see above)

Can't have Treadrea. Overated. I would take Richo, Hall Lloyd before him.

Lappin - sory doesn't figure in mine. his disposal lets him down.

I would have McLeod - superstar for 3 or 4 years - untouchable.

Cousins has been very good also. And of course Westy and Johnno must be in.

Forget longevity - JUDD MUST BE IN.

[doppleganger]

An oversight on my part.

We all know he deserved the Norm Smith in 2002.
Pull the other one champ

Bucks was BOG that day

The Brions had service on a platter from a dominant Ruck in Keating, yet Buckley still dominanted the middle and almost got the pies over the line against a monster of a team.

Bucks deserved Norm Smith, to add to his Fos Williams medal..........twice voted BOG in GF's and was in his teams best in his other GF.........the ultimate BIG GAME player!

[doppleganger]

Can't have Treadrea. Overated. I would take Richo, Hall Lloyd before him.

Lappin - sory doesn't figure in mine. his disposal lets him down.

I would have McLeod - superstar for 3 or 4 years - untouchable.

Cousins has been very good also. And of course Westy and Johnno must be in.

Forget longevity - JUDD MUST BE IN.
Dont have to like the bloke but tredders record post 2000 is brilliant.....AA CHF 4 times speaks volumes, if ur going to inlcude a Forward Tredders is the best performed.

[jod23]

Even though I go for West Coast, the number of people leaving out Ben Cousins is astonishing.

Since 2000 he has been a
4 x AA
Brownlow Medalist
AFL MVP
West Coast Captain from 2001 - 2005
4 x B/F

Brownlow Results [the good :D]
2006 - ? [Should go top 5 though]
2005 - winner
2003 - equal 2nd
2002 - equal 4th
2001 - equal 4th

No doubt....

I was reading this thread and list after list was leaving Cousins off it??? I was astonished. He has been far better than guys like Harvey and Hird in the past 6 years. Yeah over their career's Hird and Harvey are legends but since 2000 Cousins easily has them covered. In fact he has almost everyone covered over the past 6 seasons.

Absolute nonsense that he has been left out of so many ppl's lists. But hey, everyone has their opinions.