View Full Version : What's with the anti-Skipworth attitude around here?
Vic Crow
5 Sep 2005, 00:32
For the life of me I cannot understand the anti-Skippy sentiments. Maybe it's just because he's always been one of my favourites so I'm looking through rose coloured glasses but for such a small guy he isn't afraid to have a go.
A lot of the scrutiny he's getting is for his inability to kick long distances. He isn't a forward so he shouldn't be hung, drawn and quartered for not kicking that goal last night from just inside 50 near the boundary line. Yeah, it's not ideal that he can't kick too far, but I think the good far outweighs the bad. People also quickly forget that 300 gamer Tony Shaw could only kick 40-45m at best.
He is a fringe player and is having quite a good season. Whether you agree with the second part of that sentence is irrelevant because the first part is probably the most important. He's only a fringe player. People need to keep this in mind when calling for him to be among the first dropped. He may not be at the club in five years, but he's doing his job now and IMO he's doing it well. He faded last night, but had a great first quarter. I think he was actually quite influential in our early lead and was often in the right spot at the right time.
I agree with you in the main on Skippy. IMO he's good value for money in the possessions he gets for the time he spends on the field.
My one criticism of him - which you touched on - is his very limited kicking distance, and in fact his own belief in his kicking distance.
When an AFL footballer has a shot at goal from 45 metres out he should not only make the distance comfortably, he should also believe that he will.
Skippy fails in both these areas, and these failures can cost games.
Apart from that, I'm happy with his contribution to the team overall.
Stiffy_18
5 Sep 2005, 00:51
Every player, even the champions have flaws. Skippy happens to be a player that can't kick long. His limit is about 45 meters. Both of Skippy's shots on goal were from a reasonably difficult angle to start with so I am not sure what all the bagging is about. Both were at him maximum distance with a dry ball. He was never going to kick it with a wet ball. Not that many players could get them from that angle.
He is a fringe player
hes a backbone player
SpringChoke
5 Sep 2005, 09:46
hes a backbone player
:D
Skip has a big heart but limited ability. The same could be said for Shirley but the thing Shirls has going for him is he is willing to throw himself at the contest whereas Skippy doesn't. Sadly I doubt/he shouldn't still be on our list in 2007.
I agree with you in the main on Skippy. IMO he's good value for money in the possessions he gets for the time he spends on the field.
My one criticism of him - which you touched on - is his very limited kicking distance, and in fact his own belief in his kicking distance.
When an AFL footballer has a shot at goal from 45 metres out he should not only make the distance comfortably, he should also believe that he will.
Skippy fails in both these areas, and these failures can cost games.
Apart from that, I'm happy with his contribution to the team overall.
Spot on macca.
Can't question his willingness to go for the ball but if he hasn't much confidence in his own kicking ability then how could we be expected to.
crowsgirl91
5 Sep 2005, 10:41
:D
Skip has a big heart but limited ability. The same could be said for Shirley but the thing Shirls has going for him is he is willing to throw himself at the contest whereas Skippy doesn't. Sadly I doubt/he shouldn't still be on our list in 2007.
I think Shirley is a prominent figure in our team. He ends up in the backline some where helping out, kicking goals. IMO hes fantastic!
No disrespect to Hayden Skipworth but we didn’t lost Saturday night because he played a bad game, Skippy has gone from a player that should never be considered for even an emergency spot on a Thursday night to a crucial part of the back bone group. Skippy, Reilly, Doughty, Burton, Shirley (very good game on Luke Ball and cut him out of it), Perrie, Biglands are all easy targets to get the criticism after a loss or even a bad performance.
Skippy has been good this season and he should finish about 10-15th in the clubs best and fairest over the season, that’s a fair indication that he is a sold player but not an established player in the group.
SpringChoke
5 Sep 2005, 11:16
I think Shirley is a prominent figure in our team. He ends up in the backline some where helping out, kicking goals. IMO hes fantastic!
Next year IMO he should be our 25th + player on the list. Like i said big heart, tries his guts out bu sadly not skillful or tough enough for AFL footy.
Next year IMO he should be our 25th + player on the list. Like i said big heart, tries his guts out bu sadly not skillful or tough enough for AFL footy.
But given that there is a large list of 'delists' before him, he'll remain on our list next year.
I'm not going to bag the lad, he tried his hardest, he's just not up to AFL standard. Simple as that.
Next year IMO he should be our 25th + player on the list. Like i said big heart, tries his guts out bu sadly not skillful or tough enough for AFL footy.
The way AFL football and the talk is that scragging non-attentive taggers (Steven baker, Jared Crouch, Jade Rawlings) are going to be outlawed from the game. It is going it is imperative that you have a tagger that can stop a dangerous ball winner as well as get the ball him self as Robert Shirley has developed and previously Tyson Stenglein did.
The question I ask you then if Robert Shirley is to be the 25th man in the AFC squad who is going to be the tagger for the AFC? Martin Mattner, Kris Massie, Nathan Van Berlo, Michael Doughty? i dont think so and don’t even consider suggesting John Hinge simply for the fact he has a big body and looks physically intimidating, just dosnt have the same amount of ability as RS.
Robert Shirley is the ideal player to be a tagger and now has show he can fill that spot the AFC desperately needed filling at the beginning of this season.
SpringChoke
5 Sep 2005, 13:12
The way AFL football and the talk is that scragging non-attentive taggers (Steven baker, Jared Crouch, Jade Rawlings) are going to be outlawed from the game. It is going it is imperative that you have a tagger that can stop a dangerous ball winner as well as get the ball him self as Robert Shirley has developed and previously Tyson Stenglein did.
The question I ask you then if Robert Shirley is to be the 25th man in the AFC squad who is going to be the tagger for the AFC? Martin Mattner, Kris Massie, Nathan Van Berlo, Michael Doughty? i dont think so and don’t even consider suggesting John Hinge simply for the fact he has a big body and looks physically intimidating, just dosnt have the same amount of ability as RS.
Robert Shirley is the ideal player to be a tagger and now has show he can fill that spot the AFC desperately needed filling at the beginning of this season.
I agree. I think Shirls has been great this year
SpringChoke
5 Sep 2005, 13:26
But given that there is a large list of 'delists' before him, he'll remain on our list next year.
I'm not going to bag the lad, he tried his hardest, he's just not up to AFL standard. Simple as that.
I agree becuase the lack of depth we have he an Doughty will get another year, maybe 2.
Next year, the following should all be picked ahead of Doughty and Skip:
Bass,
Bigla
Bock
Bode
Burton
Clarke
Edwards
Goody
Hart
Hentschel
Hinge
Johncock
Knights
Kruger
Maric
Mattner
McGregor
McLeod
Meeson
Perrie
Reilly
Roo
Rutten
Shirley
Thomspon
Thorney
VB
Watts
Welsh
Which would bring Skip and Doughty in at 30 and 31.
The only players Skip and Doughty should be picked ahead of, provided their not delisted at the end of this year, are:
Massie, Ladhams, Schuback, Begley, S Stevens, Smith, Gibson ( Still developing ), Hudson ( injured :( ), Jericho and our 2005 draftees. I'm sort of hoping that massie, ladhams, Schuie, Begs, S Stevens and Smith aren't on our list next year.
Vic Crow
5 Sep 2005, 13:35
Almost half of those players in bold are apples to Skip and Doughty's oranges. I hardly think we'll see this change next season - In: Maric, Out: Skipworth.
Bode, Knights, VB, Reilly and Hinge are the only bolded players worth any sort of comparison to Skip and Doughty. And I disagree that Bode should be ahead of Skippy and am leaning towards saying the same of Reilly. I've not seen Hinge play, so can't comment.
SpringChoke
5 Sep 2005, 13:52
The way AFL football and the talk is that scragging non-attentive taggers (Steven baker, Jared Crouch, Jade Rawlings) are going to be outlawed from the game. It is going it is imperative that you have a tagger that can stop a dangerous ball winner as well as get the ball him self as Robert Shirley has developed and previously Tyson Stenglein did.
The question I ask you then if Robert Shirley is to be the 25th man in the AFC squad who is going to be the tagger for the AFC? Martin Mattner, Kris Massie, Nathan Van Berlo, Michael Doughty? i dont think so and don’t even consider suggesting John Hinge simply for the fact he has a big body and looks physically intimidating, just dosnt have the same amount of ability as RS.
Robert Shirley is the ideal player to be a tagger and now has show he can fill that spot the AFC desperately needed filling at the beginning of this season.
I didn't say Shirley will be the 25th man in our squad, I said Skippy will be. Shirley has earnt his spot in our starting 22. Actually, on closer inspection i would say Skip should fall to about 30.
EDIY MY bad, I misread the original post. However, my correction is, as above.
SpringChoke
5 Sep 2005, 13:54
Almost half of those players in bold are apples to Skip and Doughty's oranges. I hardly think we'll see this change next season - In: Maric, Out: Skipworth.
Bode, Knights, VB, Reilly and Hinge are the only bolded players worth any sort of comparison to Skip and Doughty. And I disagree that Bode should be ahead of Skippy and am leaning towards saying the same of Reilly. I've not seen Hinge play, so can't comment.
If you think reilly is a worse player then Skippy we may as well just off load him now then. Could you imagine the primary players in our midfield rotation being Skip and a player worse than Skip - even Carltons midfield would smash us.
SpringChoke
5 Sep 2005, 14:08
Almost half of those players in bold are apples to Skip and Doughty's oranges. I hardly think we'll see this change next season - In: Maric, Out: Skipworth.
Bode, Knights, VB, Reilly and Hinge are the only bolded players worth any sort of comparison to Skip and Doughty. And I disagree that Bode should be ahead of Skippy and am leaning towards saying the same of Reilly. I've not seen Hinge play, so can't comment.
Lets hope the 4 I highlighted are more than just comparable with Skip and Doughty. Let's hope, for our sakes, they are head and shoulders above S & D.
I think that some people will be surprised with Skippy's polling in the B&F. Also, he is only 22. The people who bag him now are probably the same ones who were bagging Tyson Edwards during his first 3 or 4 (or 5) years playing for the Crows, or the ones who got stuck into Andrew McLeod in 1996 for not being consistent enough. Matthew Liptak was bagged for years, but by his mid 20s was one of our best midfielders. The majority of good players take time to develop. Not every player is a Judd or Riccuito, looking the goods before they turn 20.
Hayden Skipworth has shown huge improvement this year, and might improve more next year (or not!), but he certainly has potential, and it is too early to talk of cutting him now.
Will the people who want Hinge to take his spot next year be saying the same things if Hinge is not a superstar by 21? Playing 19 year olds for 2 years, then cutting them to play another 19 year old is going to make the future very frustrating.
Wayne's-World
5 Sep 2005, 22:43
I think that some people will be surprised with Skippy's polling in the B&F. Also, he is only 22. The people who bag him now are probably the same ones who were bagging Tyson Edwards during his first 3 or 4 (or 5) years playing for the Crows, or the ones who got stuck into Andrew McLeod in 1996 for not being consistent enough. Matthew Liptak was bagged for years, but by his mid 20s was one of our best midfielders. The majority of good players take time to develop. Not every player is a Judd or Riccuito, looking the goods before they turn 20.
Hayden Skipworth has shown huge improvement this year, and might improve more next year (or not!), but he certainly has potential, and it is too early to talk of cutting him now.
Will the people who want Hinge to take his spot next year be saying the same things if Hinge is not a superstar by 21? Playing 19 year olds for 2 years, then cutting them to play another 19 year old is going to make the future very frustrating.
Bad argument:
1. Both players you mentioned had pace - Skippy doesn't
2. Age has nothing to do with sufficient physical attributes to play the game
Those who argue that long kicking is an issue should remember Robert Harvey
No the issue is his lack of pace as a smallman to get to sufficient contests and cover quicker midfielders
Vic Crow
6 Sep 2005, 00:31
Lets hope the 4 I highlighted are more than just comparable with Skip and Doughty. Let's hope, for our sakes, they are head and shoulders above S & D.
Hopefully in the future. But for 2006 I don't think all four would or should be ahead of those two. I'm more of a Skippy booster than a Doughty fan though.
It's far too easy to only look at the bad. Like I said earlier, he probably won't be at the club in five years time. But if he stays as good as he's done this season for the next few years then he's doing his job. Last week someone started a thread on the main board (I think it may have been PerthCrow) about the importance of the last six picked in a side each week. Skippy will probably never leave this group, but he is a very valuable type of player to round the squad out with.
And my favourite...so LEAVE HIM ALONE!!! :p
SpringChoke
6 Sep 2005, 09:33
Hopefully in the future. But for 2006 I don't think all four would or should be ahead of those two. I'm more of a Skippy booster than a Doughty fan though.
It's far too easy to only look at the bad. Like I said earlier, he probably won't be at the club in five years time. But if he stays as good as he's done this season for the next few years then he's doing his job. Last week someone started a thread on the main board (I think it may have been PerthCrow) about the importance of the last six picked in a side each week. Skippy will probably never leave this group, but he is a very valuable type of player to round the squad out with.
And my favourite...so LEAVE HIM ALONE!!! :p
:D
Crow-mosone
6 Sep 2005, 19:34
Bad argument:
1. Both players you mentioned had pace - Skippy doesn't
2. Age has nothing to do with sufficient physical attributes to play the game
Those who argue that long kicking is an issue should remember Robert Harvey
No the issue is his lack of pace as a smallman to get to sufficient contests and cover quicker midfielders
how is it a bad argument? basically he is saying skippy has improved enormously (true), and may do pretty well in the B&F (to be seen).