Values that you, as an Australian, hold dear.

[Santos L Helper]

I'm writing a paper on Australian values (morals?) and I'm wondering if the intelligent folk at Big Footy may be able to help me out?
Everybody has a set of values and the type I'm looking for are things like: freedom, a fair days pay for a fair days work (work ethic), democracy, a fair go for all.....etc. if you get my drift.
I would like you to tell me what your values are, and remember I'm not here to judge you or challenge you, I just need to get a wider perspective on what others hold dear to their hearts as Australians, or as citizens of the planet. Please don't be shy if you think your values may be different from the norm........that's exactly the type of stuff which will help me fill out the paper.

Thanks.

ps. going to the footy is not a value...........it's a right:D

[oh_my_hat]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper:

ps. going to the footy is not a value...........it's a right

I was going to say I value being able to go to the Footy without feeling like a caged animal behind wire like in some other countries, but I guess that doesn't count now. :D :D

[i_luv_westcoast]

I value the fact that we have free speech in this country. This enables me to hang $hit on whoever I like :)

[The Hitman]

Okay Frankie...here is my rant... :o

I have high moral standards, for both myself and other people.

Technically, I am a walking contradiction, and perhaps a hypocrite, but not in the things that matter.

Let me first talk about being a 16 year old in modern day Australia.

People underrate me because of my age. yes, I acknowlege that I haven't experienced the full things that life can offer or throw at me, but I have experienced things that people who are 50 wouldn't have.

People judge others by age alone, and that is just wrong. Even BigFooty is a good example of that. people will dismiss an argument just because of age. That's just plain wrong. I am a person, I am (I would hope) responsible, and I have an opinion. If all you can come back at me with is "You're 16, what would you know?", I suspect I'm winning.

In love, I have been hit surprisingly hard for a 16 year old. I guess it stems back to my father, who cheated on my mother, and thus I haven't seen him for 14 years. That has made me grow up quickly, living in lower-class Dandenong with a single mother.

It has embodied in me a steely determination to succeed, and to not be anything like my father. I could never, ever, cheat on a woman. It is the lowest thing on earth to me. There is no justifiable point of doing it, and seeming two of my exes knew that before cheating on me (one of them three times), it hurt that much more.

I am an honest person. If I think something, I will say it. I have been outspoken since I was very young...and people I know have come to learn that I am a smartarse kid.

Honestly, I hate society today. My generation has grown up too quickly. People lose their virginity at 14, and they don't know what they are doing. People think they are mature and responsible adults at 15 because they have had sex. Wow, you can fit a shape into a hole...congratulations. Try living without a father for 14 years, try getting perspective, and try and realize that by having sex when you are that young isn't smart or cool, it's stupid and achieves nothing.

Education is a must, and while people leave (that's their perogatove), and people say "I did this with this level of education", the stark reality is that you need at the very least a VCE (in Victoria) to get anywhere there days. hell, you ain't guarenteed anything with a uni degree these days.

The world is a superficial and selfish place with liars and bad people dominationg and taking over the actual good folk...but god, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else...

Hope I helped ya out there Frank...and maybe you have all learnt a bit about me as a person...and a bit about what makes me tick. I could have included some more stuff Frank, and if you want some more specific stuff, I could tell you in PM, but I wouldn't be comfortable in telling you in this post.

Hope I didn't make anyone fall asleep... :o :D

The Hitman

[i_luv_westcoast]

Hitman, you made me feel stupid with the post I replied with now :(

[The Hitman]

Originally posted by i_luv_westcoast
Hitman, you made me feel stupid with the post I replied with now :(

You could always hang sh*t on me... ;)

The Hitman

[Santos L Helper]

Thanks so far guys.

Brett, I bet that was pretty cathartic wasn't it? After reading your post, I have to wonder if having high morals and values can lead to excessive heartache hoping people live up to your expectations of them and yourself. I'm not saying that having high values is bad...........just thinking out loud.

[The Hitman]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper
Thanks so far guys.

Brett, I bet that was pretty cathartic wasn't it? After reading your post, I have to wonder if having high morals and values can lead to excessive heartache hoping people live up to your expectations of them and yourself. I'm not saying that having high values is bad...........just thinking out loud.

Hitter runs and grabs the dictionary...

Cathartic? Mate, I think you think I am bullsh*tting.

Anyway, i don't believe in god, so the high morals either come from my own belief in what is common sense, and from past experience.

I don't know how it would lead to more heartache. I would think that my values would lead to less actually. I ain't a saint, hell, I have regrets, and if you wanna know them, PM me, but honesty and not cheating isn't exactly the hardest of expectations I wouldn't think.

I see where you may be coming from...

Good thread BTW...

The Hitman

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by The Hitman


Hitter runs and grabs the dictionary...

Cathartic? Mate, I think you think I am bullsh*tting.

Anyway, i don't believe in god, so the high morals either come from my own belief in what is common sense, and from past experience.

I don't know how it would lead to more heartache. I would think that my values would lead to less actually. I ain't a saint, hell, I have regrets, and if you wanna know them, PM me, but honesty and not cheating isn't exactly the hardest of expectations I wouldn't think.

I see where you may be coming from...

Good thread BTW...

The Hitman

Cathartic means to cleanse (the soul). It's the feeling you get when you get something off your chest and it feels like a weight is off you. Well that's how I would describe it.
I actually believe that honesty is one of the toughest values in todays world.

[Bee]

Santos, this is part of a "mock up" preamble a couple of us at work did last year to have a laugh at John Howards Constitutional preamble.
I know you are after some serious posts, but hey, it's Friday and I am about to go on holiday to Queensland too. So I am not really serious today. :)


We, the people of this broad brown land of Oz, wish to be recognised as a free nation of blokes & sheilas. We come from many lands (although a few too many of us come from New Zealand) and, although we live in the best country in the world, we reserve the right to bitch and moan about it whenever we bloody like.

We, the citizens of Oz, are united by the Pacific Highway, whose treacherous twists and turns kill more of us each year than die by murder. We are united in our lust for international recognition, so desperate for praise that we leapt for joy when a ragtag bunch of hopelessly corrupt IOC officials told us that we were better than Beijing. We are united by a Democracy so flawed that a political party (albeit a red-neck gun-totting mob of one-eyed morons) can receive more than one million votes and still not win a single seat in Parliament, while an idiot like Brian Harradine can get 24,000 votes and rule the nation.

Not that we are whingers, we leave that to our Pommy immigrants. We want to make "no bloody worries mate" our national phrase, "she’ll be right, mate" our national attitude and "Waltzing Matilda" our national anthem (even if it is about a sheep-stealing criminal who committed suicide) and retain Ned Kelly ( a hanged bushranger) as our number one hero.

We love our sport so much that the TV newsreaders can read the death-toll in the worst yacht racing disaster in recorded history, whilst still telling us who is winning and all in the same breath. We are the best in the world at all the sports that count, like cricket, rugby, netball, AFL, roo-shooting, two-up and horse-racing.

We have the biggest rock, the tastiest pies, the blackest Aborigines and the worst-dressed Olympians in the history of the known universe. We know nothing about Art but we know that we hate the poofs who make it. We shoot, we vote, we are girt by sea and pissed by lunchtime. And even though we might seem a racist closed-minded, sports-obsessed mob, at least we are better off than the Kiwis.
We are rude, crude, uncouth, uncultured, ockers. But we are still the best bloody mob on the face of this earth.

[Bee]

Hitman,
I still find it hard to believe that you are only 16. I mean that as a compliment.
If I had a student like you when I was teaching I would never have given the profession up.

[Santos L Helper]

Thanks Bee, I liked your 'preamble' a lot.........very witty and right on the money.

cheers.

[sbagman]

I think one thing which defines Australians is the belief, not that it is necessarily followed, that at the end of the day, everyone is equal, no matter what you do, how much money you earn, what your education is, what your background is. I notice that in Australia I call my supervisors by their first name and can go to the pub with them; overseas this is unheard of.

I think from this stems tall poppy syndrome... Australians want to be all seen as equal, even regardless of talent and achievement, and don't like it when people stand out from the crowd.

For some reason sportspeople seem to be the only exceptions.

That's my view anyway.

Sbagman.

[Briedis]

LOL :D That was great Bee. A lot of work-time went into that I can see!

On the topic, I think it is near impossible to nail down exactly what morals or values are adhered to by Australians. Australia is currently in a time of cultural change with the "aussie bloke"-style values being left for new values of multi-cultural Australia.

It will be interesting to see what type of country Australia will be in 20 years. No doubt it will be very different from the Australia we know today....

[Bee]

Originally posted by Briedis
LOL :D That was great Bee. A lot of work-time went into that I can see!

....

Hey Briedis,
I work with pollies what can you expect? :)

BTW that's only half of the preamble.

[Briedis]

Originally posted by Bee


Hey Briedis,
I work with pollies what can you expect? :)

BTW that's only half of the preamble.

Please post the full version. I would love to read it!:)

[Bee]

Originally posted by Briedis


Please post the full version. I would love to read it!:)

Okay, but if anyone from any of the states or territories is offended. Just remember I've taken the piss out of Victoria and Tassie too. And I am both!


We, the people of this broad brown land of Oz, wish to be recognised as a free nation of blokes & sheilas. We come from many lands (although a few too many of us come from New Zealand) and, although we live in the best country in the world, we reserve the right to bitch and moan about it whenever we bloody like. We are one big nation but we are divided into many parts.

First there is Victoria, named after a Queen who did not believe in lesbians. Victoria is the realm of Mossimo turtlenecks, café latte, grand final day and big horse races. Its capital is Melbourne and its chief marketing pitch is that it’s ‘livable’, at least that’s what Melbournians think, the rest of Australia think it’s too bloody wet and cold.

Next is NSW, the realm of pastel shorts, macchiato with sugar, thin books read quickly and millions of dancing queens. Its capital is Sydney which has more queens than any other city in the world, and is proud of it. Its mascots are Bondi lifesavers who pull their Speedos up the cracks of their arse so as to keep the two halves of their brains separate.

Down in the south is Tasmania, a state based on the notion that a family that bonks together stays together. In Tassie everyone gets an extra chromosome at conception. Maps of the state bring smiles to the sternest faces, and it holds the world record for the highest number of victims in a single mass shooting, which the Yanks do not seem to be able to beat no matter how many times they try.

South Australia is the province of half-decent reds, a festival of foreigners and bizarre axe murderers. SA is the state of innovation, where else can you so effectively re-use country bank vaults and barrels? They had a Grand Prix, but lost it when the views of Adelaide sent the Formula One drivers to sleep behind the wheel.

Western Australia is simply too far from anywhere to be relevant in this document. Its main claim to fame is that it doesn’t have Daylight Saving Time, if it did all the men would be getting erections on the bus going to work. WA was the last state to stop importing convicts, and a great many of them still work in the state government and local business.

The Northern Territory is the red heart of our land. Outback plains, sheep stations the size of Europe, kangaroos, jackaroos, emus, Ulurus and dusty kids with big smiles. It also has the highest beer consumption of anywhere on the planet, and its creek beds have the highest minimum of anywhere too. Although the Territory is the centrepiece of our national culture, very few of us live there, and the rest of us prefer to fly over it on the way to Bali.

And then there’s Queensland. Whilst any mention of God seems slightly silly in a document defining a nation of half-arsed agnostics, it’s probably worth mentioning that He probably made Queensland. Quite why he filled it with complete ********s remains a total mystery.

And last and definitely least there is Canberra, and the least said about that the better.

We, the citizens of Oz, are united by the Pacific Highway, whose treacherous twists and turns kill more of us each year than die by murder. We are united in our lust for international recognition, so desperate for praise that we leapt for joy when a ragtag bunch of hopelessly corrupt IOC officials told us that we were better than Beijing. We are united by a Democracy so flawed that a political party (albeit a red-neck gun-totting mob of one-eyed morons) can receive more than one million votes and still not win a single seat in Parliament, while an idiot like Brian Harradine can get 24,000 votes and rule the nation.

Not that we are whingers, we leave that to our Pommy immigrants. We want to make "no bloody worries mate" our national phrase, "she’ll be right, mate" our national attitude and "Waltzing Matilda" our national anthem (even if it is about a sheep-stealing criminal who committed suicide) and retain Ned Kelly ( a hanged bushranger) as our number one hero.

We love our sport so much that the TV newsreaders can read the death-toll in the worst yacht racing disaster in recorded history, whilst still telling us who is winning and all in the same breath. We are the best in the world at all the sports that count, like cricket, rugby, netball, AFL, roo-shooting, two-up and horse-racing.

We have the biggest rock, the tastiest pies, the blackest Aborigines and the worst-dressed Olympians in the history of the known universe. We know nothing about Art but we know that we hate the poofs who make it. We shoot, we vote, we are girt by sea and pissed by lunchtime. And even though we might seem a racist closed-minded, sports-obsessed mob, at least we are better off than the Kiwis.
We are rude, crude, uncouth, uncultured, ockers. But we are still the best bloody mob on the face of this earth.

[Briedis]

Excellent work Bee! Thanks for posting the whole thing. Very funny!:)

[Asgardian]

Okay Santos, I'll have a shot for you, firstly about myself, I am a 42 year old married bloke, I sold my business and currently look after my disabled wife, I intend to go to Uni.

Freedoms within our society :- This is a 2 way street, however to set ground rules, things like smoking are horrible to my way of thinking, however it is legal, so while I dislike it, I respect others rights to enjoy it, in the appropriate places. Freedom of speech is a right within our society, but again, it has to be done within the right framework. The thing to remember is that freedoms within our society are not something Australians will tolerate seeing abused, have the right to hold assembly, have the right to hold differing views to the norm, but do not cross the line of espousing those views to incite a race riot, do not cross the line to incite physical violence of one segment of Australia against another.

Yes we have a free society, but with those freedoms come responsibilities, we are not a police state, we are largely left alone to live our lives, because we are trusted to do the right thing, break that trust you will become a pariah.

Moral values and religious beliefs :- Apart from maybe USA, I doubt you could find a more multi cultural society, where you are free to follow your own set of religious beliefs. That is fine for those who find solace within an organised religion. I believe Australia is what it is today because of the moral fibre, and life structure that is followed by the millions who are not a tenant of any religious constraint.

Life in Australia grew at a rapid pace, sometimes at a pace that outstripped religion, we grew up as a nation learning to be tolerant of each other by necessity, not because we were told it was the right thing to do. We learned to live together, strong moral fibre became almost an Australianism.

Self sacrifice :- Since European colonisation of Australia, we as a nation have never been invaded, it came damn close in 1942, but with the help of our allies, the USA, we managed to fight off that aggressor. Despite the fact we have never been invaded, we as a nation, and it's sons and daughters have always placed ourselves in harms way. We are willing to pay the price of self-sacrifice, to protect a way of life, to protect our culture against what we see as an oppressive regime. We are willing to die to protect an idea and a principle.

[The Hitman]

Originally posted by Bee
Hitman,
I still find it hard to believe that you are only 16. I mean that as a compliment.
If I had a student like you when I was teaching I would never have given the profession up.

Thanks Bee...

I don't think you would like to teach me though, I'm a smartarse and am probably frustrating to teach, because I have the ability, bit I am too lazy.

The Hitman

[Bee]

Originally posted by The Hitman


Thanks Bee...

I don't think you would like to teach me though, I'm a smartarse and am probably frustrating to teach, because I have the ability, bit I am too lazy.

The Hitman

No worries Hitman,
I am a smartarse too. Ask anyone who knows me.:)

[Santos L Helper]

Some interesting stuff. I've got a couple of queries with your post Chris, but I'll save them for a later date.

I have a question on values for you all. In SA we have had petrol rationing for the last three days and there have been reports of motorists getting violent because they couldn't get their petrol when they wanted it. My question is this....

Do we value our right to be able to drive our cars whenever we want over the rights of other people to obtain better working conditions, and how do you feel about that set of values?

[The Hitman]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper

I have a question on values for you all. In SA we have had petrol rationing for the last three days and there have been reports of motorists getting violent because they couldn't get their petrol when they wanted it. My question is this....

Do we value our right to be able to drive our cars whenever we want over the rights of other people to obtain better working conditions, and how do you feel about that set of values?

There has to be a balance.

I know that driving is a privelege, not a right. Not everyone has the right to drive, so let's get that straight.

If the government sets rationing, the people should deal with it. Yes, it is because workers think they aren't getting enough money, which is debatable. But I think that people who are getting violent over that are stupid and selfish people.

Overall, I think the majority of people would value the rights of other people to obtain better working conditions over the supposed right of driving.

That's just my opinion though...

The Hitman

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by The Hitman


There has to be a balance.

I know that driving is a privelege, not a right. Not everyone has the right to drive, so let's get that straight.

If the government sets rationing, the people should deal with it. Yes, it is because workers think they aren't getting enough money, which is debatable. But I think that people who are getting violent over that are stupid and selfish people.

Overall, I think the majority of people would value the rights of other people to obtain better working conditions over the supposed right of driving.

That's just my opinion though...

The Hitman

Good points Hitman, but what if I also ask you about our right to drive and the potential of disastrous consequences via things like tanker spills etc? This is tough and there is no correct answer, but this is what I have to consider for this assignment.

[The Hitman]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper


Good points Hitman, but what if I also ask you about our right to drive and the potential of disastrous consequences via things like tanker spills etc? This is tough and there is no correct answer, but this is what I have to consider for this assignment.

Like I said, driving isn't a right, it's a privelege. You aren't born with the right, you earn the privelege.

The potential for disasterous concequences is there with everything, should we ban driving because there are risks? Should we ban flying because of terrorism?

No...it's life...we live it...

The Hitman

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by The Hitman


Like I said, driving isn't a right, it's a privelege. You aren't born with the right, you earn the privelege.

The potential for disasterous concequences is there with everything, should we ban driving because there are risks? Should we ban flying because of terrorism?

No...it's life...we live it...

The Hitman

Here's where we differ Brett. Tanker disasters are avoidable and we have safer alternatives, but would the public go for them? Probably not because they would make travel slower and maybe more expensive.
The value we are seeing coming through here is comfort. We value having our lives as comfortable as possible, which is quite reasonable, but we also tend to look forget about costs involved. It's more than just risks, they are costs.
Good chattin with ya Brett.

[Asgardian]

Santos, let me ask you a question first :-
Does the common good over-ride the rights of a few?

Without trying to be corny, the question was answered in the finale of the 2nd Star Trek movie, when Mr Spock made his self sacrifice for the good of his crew mates.

Yep, just a movie, but the principle is one that has been adhered to time and time again by the 1000's of heroes who have gone to war for their country.

All very dramatic when asking a question about petrol rationing in SA.

Firstly I believe certain occupations, by definition and need, have to be above strike action, for the common good.

One of those essential occupations should be the supply of petroleum, therefore in my little planet the strike would never have happened.

Ultimately I do not believe that the rights of a few should impinge upon the society as a whole.

The other direction you are heading towards re alternative fuels, and or energy production and consumption is a whole new can of worms, one which a country like Australia will never be able to solve.

Remember the companies who profit by current technology are a whole lot bigger value wise than us, they have some control in the highest echelons of government throughout the world. What we want to do in the way of changing energy resources etc. just will never be allowed to happen, at least not till big business is ready to let it happen

[The Hitman]

Good thread Frank...some intellectual chat other then the usual banter flying around the place these days...

The hitman

[Santos L Helper]

Chris, I now ask you about the 'good of the many over the good of the few'.
The planet is in serious trouble from global warming caused primarily by emissions. My question would be......Where is the good of the many in this regard?
I agree that it will take 'big business' to jump on board for alternative power to become widespread, but oil is not a renewable resource, so it may have to happen soon.

Denmark is 80% wind power, so it's on the way.

[66MunsterT]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper
Some interesting stuff. I've got a couple of queries with your post Chris, but I'll save them for a later date.

I have a question on values for you all. In SA we have had petrol rationing for the last three days and there have been reports of motorists getting violent because they couldn't get their petrol when they wanted it. My question is this....

Do we value our right to be able to drive our cars whenever we want over the rights of other people to obtain better working conditions, and how do you feel about that set of values?


It amounts to 27 people holding the State to Ransom. :confused: :mad:

[DEES RULE!]

Hitman i agree with everything you said!
You know that i have been through stuff 50 year olds never have and never will experience and so have you, and it just goes to show how hypocritical and judgmental our society is that they look down on people our age (i am only 15) when infact some of us have gone through more than most have.

I have grown up in Israel and have moved to Australia at the age of 12 so i think i appriciate living here a lot more than people who have lived in Australia all their lives.
If you watch TV you would know what life is like in that part of the world, and living through it is 100 times harder than it looks.
I value being able to go out with friends and not be affraid to catch a bus, i value being able to go into shopping centers and not be blown up by suicide bombs. I value being able to be laid back and feel safe in my own home, my own street, my own city, my own country. I value the Australian people as a nation, and as individuals, and i value all the rights i have as a human being living in a country who tolerates minorities.

On a personal level i have been through a lot, i have seen too much, tried too much, and enjoyed too little. Despite being 15 i have had a very short and bitter childhood, but never the less i came up on top. I value the people who have been with me through the hard times the most, and those who kepts me going and gave me inspiration; but most of all i have learned to value myself, my strength and self belief because if it wasn't for it i wouldn't be here right now.

[Leia]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper
I'm writing a paper on Australian values (morals?) and I'm wondering if the intelligent folk at Big Footy may be able to help me out?
Everybody has a set of values and the type I'm looking for are things like: freedom, a fair days pay for a fair days work (work ethic), democracy, a fair go for all.....etc. if you get my drift.
I would like you to tell me what your values are, and remember I'm not here to judge you or challenge you, I just need to get a wider perspective on what others hold dear to their hearts as Australians, or as citizens of the planet. Please don't be shy if you think your values may be different from the norm........that's exactly the type of stuff which will help me fill out the paper.

Thanks.

ps. going to the footy is not a value...........it's a right:D

I value freedom - freedom of speech and of worship; freedom from want and from fear. Not only on a presonal level, but applicable to all, world-wide.

I value equality of all people - race, sex, religion, age, appearance, sexual orientation (you get the idea).

I value true democracy, and in working for the common good.

I value people who exercise their rights but remain mindful of those of others; those who understand the difference between rights and privileges; and those who understand responsibility.

I value people who will work to achieve what they want, and who refuse to be hindered in attaining their goals.

I value my education, and people from whom I can learn.

I value people whom I love, and who love me.

I value kind acts from friends and from strangers.

I value personal attributes of honesty, integrity, humility, tolerance, compassion, loyalty and, above all, respect.


I hope that is the sort of thing you're after Santos - I guess it sounds very idealistic, but I hope I haven't come across as lecturing from 'up on my soap box', so to speak.
Just for the record, I'm a 17-year-old female, currently completing year 12 (VCE), and hoping to got to uni next year. Hope that was some help. :)

[Santos L Helper]

Thanks Leia that's great, but I have to ask how you feel about unemployed people who may have given up after years out of work. I just ask because after reading your post, that was about as opposite to your values that I could come up with.

Good luck with year 12 too.

[Santos L Helper]

Hitman....Brett. :)

I have to give you one reason why I sometimes will say to a contributer here, that your young and don't know. Sometimes people post information which is really only hearsay, or second hand information. This generally seems to be the younger people and I've learned over the years that if you can't post a source when your quoting supposed facts, then it's probably not true. You'll find when you get to Uni and start your Journo degree (which I know you'll do well in) that if you can't name a source or reference for all facts that you mention it won't be accepted. That's why if someone posts here saying.......'I heard that 100% of the AFLPA are women', I want to know how you know this. I hope that makes sense? It's not an attack on you because your young, maybe just a desire for the truth rather than innuendo.

Of course, some rumours can be downright funny.

[The Hitman]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper
Hitman....Brett. :)

I have to give you one reason why I sometimes will say to a contributer here, that your young and don't know. Sometimes people post information which is really only hearsay, or second hand information. This generally seems to be the younger people and I've learned over the years that if you can't post a source when your quoting supposed facts, then it's probably not true. You'll find when you get to Uni and start your Journo degree (which I know you'll do well in) that if you can't name a source or reference for all facts that you mention it won't be accepted. That's why if someone posts here saying.......'I heard that 100% of the AFLPA are women', I want to know how you know this. I hope that makes sense? It's not an attack on you because your young, maybe just a desire for the truth rather than innuendo.

Of course, some rumours can be downright funny.

I get what you are talking about...

I will use the Croad saga as an example...

Going into the final day of trading, Trent Croad was staying at Hawthorn. Two draft picks weren't enough for us, and Fremantle knew that. On the final day, Freo offered a third draft pick, which Hawthorn expected that they wouldn't. Hawthorn were swayed, and the deal done.

My source was the Hawthorn Football Club. I would be stupid and utterly disrespectful if I named who, so I didn't, and I won't.

I was wrong, but I was right. I was wrong because I said that Croad would stay at Hawthorn. But I was right because at the time I was getting my info, it was true...I was at school while the deal was being done.

What I said was not innuendo, rumours, hearsay, lies. It was the truth at the time, but a day is a long time in trading...and I couldn't have my finger on the pulse.

The Hitman

[Dan26]

Loyalty

[Santos L Helper]

Brett (Hitman), I''m really referring to topics other than football trades. I just get upset when people spout all sorts of 'facts' without any real knowledge of those 'facts'.

[The Hitman]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper
Brett (Hitman), I''m really referring to topics other than football trades. I just get upset when people spout all sorts of 'facts' without any real knowledge of those 'facts'.

You mean me Frank, or others?

The Hitman

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by The Hitman


You mean me Frank, or others?

The Hitman

If I meant you Brett, I would have said it straight out........nah, I'm just talking about posters in general. Your safe from the wrath of grumpy Santos...........perhaps I need another drink. :)

[The Hitman]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper


If I meant you Brett, I would have said it straight out........nah, I'm just talking about posters in general. Your safe from the wrath of grumpy Santos...........perhaps I need another drink. :)

Okay. :)

I know what you mean though Frank...and while you're there, grab me a drink too. ;)

The Hitman

[Leia]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper
Thanks Leia that's great, but I have to ask how you feel about unemployed people who may have given up after years out of work. I just ask because after reading your post, that was about as opposite to your values that I could come up with.

I have every sympathy for unemployed people who are legitimately struggling to find work despite their efforts to do so - i can sympathise and understand where they might be coming from when they give up. My values are ideals, and in an ideal world, i would never value giving up on something, even after years of trying - but since this world is far from ideal, i have no less respect for people in such situations. It's sadly inevitable with the lack of employment situations currenlty for many people.

Good luck with year 12 too.

Thanks :)

[The Starchild]

Originally posted by Asgardian
Moral values and religious beliefs :- Apart from maybe USA, I doubt you could find a more multi cultural society, where you are free to follow your own set of religious beliefs.

Just thought I could contribute something here as a bakpakker that has travelled through 66 countries over the past 7 years.

Firstly, just on the above point I must say that neither the USA nor Australia would be the most multicultural of all the places I've been, that honour would far and away be reserved for Brasil. Brasil is unique, the most incredible country on Earth without doubt IMO.

And secondly, whilst I've no energy to contribute extensively to this discussion but I will say this...of all the places I've been in the world Australia has given me the feel of being the most racist and judgemental.

If I could, I'd live and work in Europe, preferably France or Italy. They're far more suited to my way of thinking, far more chilled out and open-minded.

[Santos L Helper]

Starchild, I've also travelled extensively through the United States and Europe, and I actually felt more tension when I came home to Australia. I don't know why that is, but there was definitely tension in the air and it seems people act accordingly.


For everyone else, I finished the assignment. I looked at Oil Tankers and their effect on the environment and discussed the types of values in Australia (the western world) which cause us to pretty much disregard the consequences of this potential threat to our environment. I argued for and against them.......just to be fair.

[The Starchild]

Santos, we agree on Australia being tense and 'racist' I see. Actually you didn't say racist so I'll take that back, but as for tense I agree wholeheartedly. Thing is, you try to explain that to someone who doesn't have any perspective and you'll get ridiculed, Aussies seem to think this place is perfect, the greatest country on Earth daylight second and suggesting otherwise will get their insecure backs right up.

I don't share their point of view.

Cops & bouncers with little mans disease, rules rules rules, red tape, too many laws, conservatism and political correctness run riot, narrow mindedness, ignorance to world issues, racism, roadragers, greed, dishonesty, selfishness...things that sadden me about Australia and western capitalist societies in general.