Is the Power Squad Over-Rated???

[Kane McGoodwin]

This is a post which I put on the Crow's site & thought only fair to include on the Power site for comments...

With the invasion of the Adelaide site by some F#####ing-minded Power Supporters recently - with apologies to Macca19 who I believe has quite a balanced view of things - I believe we should do an in depth analysis of the Power squad & Mark Williams for 2002. This is only fair with so many Power supporters invading our site & their discussion of the Crows on their site.

To get the ball rolling, Mark Williams record against intelligent flooding by opposition coaches is extremely questionable. They have relied on players such as Dew & Francis bombing goals from 50+m out, but with the Flash missing in 2002, the options become rather limited. When the pressure is on the No. 1 game plan, the Power tend to struggle (please note G. Ayres).

Defence: I believe the Power have major problems with their key defensive posts - Paxman will be injured for most of 2002 & Mead was found wanting for pace in later part of this year. Wakelin, whilst useful at times was only a parts player. Bishop is a good chance to be delisted. S Bassett looks OK, but has limited experience & all the other juniors (eg. Thurstans) are yet to play a senior game.

Midfield: Primus is definetely the best ruckman going around, but I believe the Power's midfield depth is wanting compared to other opposition sides & probably played to their maximum capacity in 2001. Basically, the Power lack class match-winning midfielders to turn a game on its head (ala McLeod, Roo or Goody). Francou is a useful player, but can easily be flustered when scragged. Carr will be found out in future years, as opposition sides no longer under-rate his tagging ability. Stevens is a great receiver & user of the ball, but the Power lack in & under players.

Forwards: Tredrea is a great player, but what if he struggles for form? C Cornes is handy, but will never dominate. Lockwood will be lucky to stay on the list. Wanganeen is a true champion, but can the Cocky have 2 good years in a row?? I doubt it, as I reckon he is a Scotty Cummings in this respect.

What do other people think?

[Grave Danger]

You make some valid points about our response to flooding and the vulnerability of our defence, although I reckon D. Wakelin will step up in the long term absence of Packo and don't discount the inclusion of Hardwick and return from injury of Michael Wilson.

You're wrong about our midfield - it was a revelation this year and acknowledged as one of the best in the comp. We have great depth and numerous options in that area.

The forward line no longer relies exclusively on Tredrea, with Port probably having the most even spread of goalkickers of all the sides this year.

If Port 'does a Melbourne' and drops out of the eight next year, you will be right about us being over rated. The Dees making the GF in 2000 was probably satisfying for their players in hindsight, which may explain their lack of desire this year, but the way Port bombed out in the finals after being in the top four most of the season should spur them on in 2002.

[Porthos]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
This is a post which I put on the Crow's site & thought only fair to include on the Power site for comments...

To get the ball rolling, Mark Williams record against intelligent flooding by opposition coaches is extremely questionable. They have relied on players such as Dew & Francis bombing goals from 50+m out, but with the Flash missing in 2002, the options become rather limited. When the pressure is on the No. 1 game plan, the Power tend to struggle (please note G. Ayres).


Yeah, I think thats pretty deceptive. All year long, teams used that strategy against it, and we won most of the time......its just that when we lost, people said "Ah, they crack under flooding" so they keep doing it. There's no doubt that -every- side struggles with a flood on....but when you get a reputation for having trouble with it (as Port gained after the Collingwood match) then every bastard tries it.

Similar to how when word gets around that a player is susceptible to physical pressure.....they start copping it every match. I'd argue there's no player in the league that can put up with heavy physical pressure every match........the reputation again is what gets it given to you.

So yeah, I think thats all reputation. I don't think it'll last a lot longer.


Defence: I believe the Power have major problems with their key defensive posts - Paxman will be injured for most of 2002 & Mead was found wanting for pace in later part of this year. Wakelin, whilst useful at times was only a parts player. Bishop is a good chance to be delisted. S Bassett looks OK, but has limited experience & all the other juniors (eg. Thurstans) are yet to play a senior game.

The defence will sort itself out this year...its in transition. We've certainly got players that can fill those posts, but Mead and Paxman are so experienced, and work so hard, its hard to give the others a go when winning is on your mind (and it was, Williams had a contract to get. Expect him to be more amenable to change this year.)

Also, our strength in defense is our medium & small midfielders.....all our talls usually need to do is spoil, and Wilson, Wanganeen, Guerra and now Hardwick clean up the rest.


Midfield: Primus is definetely the best ruckman going around, but I believe the Power's midfield depth is wanting compared to other opposition sides & probably played to their maximum capacity in 2001. Basically, the Power lack class match-winning midfielders to turn a game on its head (ala McLeod, Roo or Goody). Francou is a useful player, but can easily be flustered when scragged. Carr will be found out in future years, as opposition sides no longer under-rate his tagging ability. Stevens is a great receiver & user of the ball, but the Power lack in & under players.


Francou is the in & under player, if you ever watch us play. So is Carr. Up forward, the in and under player is Chad Cornes. Michael Wilson is the in and under player in defense. Guerra is the in and under player wherever he is this week. And Hardwick will just add to our defense very, very well.

Stevens, Dew, Burgoyne, Che Cockatoo Collins are our match winning midfielders.

As for Carr being found out...what teams didn't rate was his ability to get the ball himself, not his tagging ability.

Midfield depth? We have incredible depth. Schofield, Montgomery, Guerra, Burgoyne, Kingsley....these aren't even in our top 5 midfielders, but they're all solid players. And if they get injured, we've got players like Cassisi, Kane Cornes, the Murrays, M. Stevens, Poulton can fill in nicely.


Forwards: Tredrea is a great player, but what if he struggles for form? C Cornes is handy, but will never dominate. Lockwood will be lucky to stay on the list. Wanganeen is a true champion, but can the Cocky have 2 good years in a row?? I doubt it, as I reckon he is a Scotty Cummings in this respect.


Yeah, we need more forwards. If Tredrea gets injured we're in trouble. The lack of key forwards is why we struggle under flooding, not the lack of decent midfielders.....midfielders shouldn't be responsible for most of your goals. Lade coming back should help, but our depth here is poor.

[Macca19]

this is what i replied on the crows board:

id just like to say i dont think we are a top 4 side just yet...we have the ability to be a top 4 side...but we are more of a 5-8 side at the minute.

Defence: could prove a problem with Mead and Packo aging....Wakelin, Basset and Bishop are pretty good players tho, are solid - and thats all defenders need to be - solid...Thurstans is young and should be a good player back there this year....the added toughness of Hardwick will help as well
Id probably rate our defence as our biggest weakness..probly give it a 5/10

Midfield: i disagree totally. However i agree we lack some in and under players - which is why we put Chirs Hall onto our senior list.
I think we have a number of match-winning midfielders - Francou and Stevens are both class players...Carr is a very underrated player, Dew is a match winner when in form, same with Schofield, Burgoyne is a class player who under performs...James is consistent, and Kingsley is another in and under player.
You say that this player will be found out, and that player is flustered etc. but you could say that for the crows as well...you could say that for any team in the AFL. Id rate our midfield a 7.5/10

Forward: We have a strong forward line up - kicked the 2nd or 3rd biggest total for the year (the 'For' column). Tredrea is already a star player...Cornes just needs to improve his kicking to be a 40+ goalscorer...Wanganeen is all class and can kick 50+ goals next year if left in the forward line all year...Cockatoo Collins IS a class player who just needed to get over injuries - he did that and was one of our better players. Burgoyne often kicks a few goals when played up there....we have Lade coming back who is a supurb kick and perfect as a tall target...Ackland can play there...we also rely on our midfielders to kick a lot of goals, like Schofield, Dew and Stevens.
I rate our forward line an 7.8-8.0/10

the rest: we have quite good depth - Guerra always performs when put on the ground, Ackland proved he will be a good future player - same with Brogan, M Stevens can play and will get a go next season, Thurstans and Morgan are both young and talented defenders who just need a chance, Wilson will come back in, Poulton can be handy...Domenic Cassisi should star next year ala Nick Stevens in his first season, K Cornes will also get regular gametime next year as well.....i belive our depth isnt a problem
Depth: 7/10

[Kane McGoodwin]

I am pleased to have invoked some interesting comments.

I will retract the bit about the lack of midfield depth, as that was not what I really trying to say. I think your midfield (particulary the Primus factor) is the strength of your team, particularly when things go well. Many of you have mentioned consistent solid players, but I don't believe you have a top quality game-breaking midfielder. Francou & Carr are good in & under players, but I still reckon you have more receivers such as N. Stevens, Dew, Burgoyne & Schofield. Could do with another hardnut in the midfield - maybe Hardwick may spend some time further up the ground, as he did start his career as a winger.

Interesting how some of you think the backlines could be a problem, whilst other think the forward line. I would probably be more concerned with the key defensive posts, as no one has really proved themselves (or had the opportunity to do so) on a regular basis apart from Paxman & Mead. So if one or both struggle in 2002, there is a question mark as to whether others can step up to fill the breach.

Your forward line is more solid with Tredrea, who has proved a consistent player, but you would hope he stays on the park (mind you the same could be said for Stevens at the Crows).

[Porthos]

Actually, its just me that thinks the forward line is a concern. I have sole dibs on `I told you so' if Tredrea gets injured... ;)

[blackdiamond]

Originally posted by Porthos
Actually, its just me that thinks the forward line is a concern. I have sole dibs on `I told you so' if Tredrea gets injured... ;)

Porthos!

I hate to harp on about the same subject but.......

Your 'What if Tredrea gets injured' statement is ridiculous.

You can't recruit on 'What if's', otherwise you will hear from just about every club the following:

Essendon: What if Lloyd gets injured?
Carlton: What if Whitnall gets injured?
Kangaroos: What if Carey gets injured?

You must cater for your needs and you can't go past the fact that Paxman and Mead are getting towards the end, probably just one more year left.

This will happen and is not a what if!

Sure we have Wakelin who is very capable but past that we don't really know what we have. Bassett and Bishop look promising but we have no idea if Thurstans and Morgan are going to make it. Your point is taken that Mark Williams relied mostly on Paxman and Mead maybe to further his contract but this does not further let us know if the others are up to it.

I am not doubting the fact that, IF Warren Tredrea was to go down with an injury we may struggle a little to keep kicking the scores we already do but we have other forwards who are very capable. We had more players in our forward line kick over 40 goals each than any other club in the AFL with players like Tredrea, Cockatoo-Collins, Dew and Wanganeen. If Tredrea was to go down Im sure players like Chad Cornes, Lockwood, Lade and Ackland would stand up.

In the draft we will not find a tall player to fill a roll in defence or up forward straight away so we must look to the future and this must surely be seen by recruiting for are weakest link, the defence.

It is easier to build a forward line than a defence. If you look at any game of the season, a teams defence is built on the oppositions forward line not the other way round. Because of this it is extremely important that the defence is structured correctly.

If we struggle in our defence after the loss of Paxman and Mead don't let me hear you complain about the backline because of course we need a forward IF Tredrea falls over, don't we? :D

[Porthos]

Originally posted by Scott


Porthos!

I hate to harp on about the same subject but.......

No-one's making you :)

Your 'What if Tredrea gets injured' statement is ridiculous.

You can't recruit on 'What if's', otherwise you will hear from just about every club the following:

Essendon: What if Lloyd gets injured?
Carlton: What if Whitnall gets injured?
Kangaroos: What if Carey gets injured?


Here's a tip. All of those clubs did.


You must cater for your needs and you can't go past the fact that Paxman and Mead are getting towards the end, probably just one more year left.

This will happen and is not a what if!

Sure we have Wakelin who is very capable but past that we don't really know what we have. Bassett and Bishop look promising but we have no idea if Thurstans and Morgan are going to make it. Your point is taken that Mark Williams relied mostly on Paxman and Mead maybe to further his contract but this does not further let us know if the others are up to it.


Did you even read my last response on this matter? I don't reckon you did....go read that, and then read this. We've already -drafted- our `could be' good defenders in Thurstans and Morgan.....they're both game ready. Where are out `could be' good forwards? We have none. None. I'll count them again. None.


I am not doubting the fact that, IF Warren Tredrea was to go down with an injury we may struggle a little to keep kicking the scores we already do but we have other forwards who are very capable. We had more players in our forward line kick over 40 goals each than any other club in the AFL with players like Tredrea, Cockatoo-Collins, Dew and Wanganeen. If Tredrea was to go down Im sure players like Chad Cornes, Lockwood, Lade and Ackland would stand up.

In the draft we will not find a tall player to fill a roll in defence or up forward straight away so we must look to the future and this must surely be seen by recruiting for are weakest link, the defence.

Mate, apart from Tredrea, all of those players you're naming are small forwards....I think we're talking about recruiting a tall forward or a tall defender, aren't we? The smalls feed off Tredrea's excellent play that won him All-Australian CHF and the Port B&F....no Tredrea, no forward line. Chad Cornes is a hard worker, and Lockwood has a fair bit of potential (as well as a major back injury), but can they really do the job between them?

When Paxman got injured, could we replace him? Yes. Did our defence fall completely apart? No. We lost our two finals due to lack of scoring power, not poor defence.


It is easier to build a forward line than a defence. If you look at any game of the season, a teams defence is built on the oppositions forward line not the other way round. Because of this it is extremely important that the defence is structured correctly.


Hahahahaha, thats a beauty. I'm glad that its so obviously simple to build a forward line....I'm sure there's a lot of teams that would love for you to show them how.


If we struggle in our defence after the loss of Paxman and Mead don't let me hear you complain about the backline because of course we need a forward IF Tredrea falls over, don't we? :D

Just to recap.....

the strength of our forward line is its small and medium players, as you admit. The strength of our backline are our small & medium players.......you'd be hard pressed to find a more hard-at-it backline than Port should be fielding next year....AND we also have good tall defenders.....five that can play, and two that look like they should be able to.

Our tall forwards are - Tredrea, Lockwood, Harwood (nominally) and Chad Cornes. Lade is a forward-playing ruckman, and thats great, but I doubt he can hold down a key forward position every week, or that he'd want to.

Of those four....Lockwood and Harwood rarely get games, Tredrea is a champion and Chad Cornes is still dropping in and out of games....we need a third option, and unlike with Paxman and Mead, we actually already need this option now.

You're worried about two years time......I'm worried about now, -and- in two years time. Since the 1997 draft, we've drafted 2 tall defenders (Thurstans, Morgan) and 2 tall forwards (Cornes and the now delisted Steve Brosnan)....all the rest are midfielders.

In trades since 1997, we've traded for Hardwick, Wakelin, Montgomery, Bishop, Naish and Cockatoo-Collins. Thats two tall defenders, and the rest smalls.......so in the past 4 years...what have we been missing?

Tell me what are we've been neglecting, please. Look at that, and tell me....look at us struggle when Tredrea is held in a game and tell me what we really, really need.

[blackdiamond]

Originally posted by Porthos

No-one's making you :)

[B]

Here's a tip. All of those clubs did.

[B]

Did you even read my last response on this matter? I don't reckon you did....go read that, and then read this. We've already -drafted- our `could be' good defenders in Thurstans and Morgan.....they're both game ready. Where are out `could be' good forwards? We have none. None. I'll count them again. None.

[B]
Mate, apart from Tredrea, all of those players you're naming are small forwards....I think we're talking about recruiting a tall forward or a tall defender, aren't we? The smalls feed off Tredrea's excellent play that won him All-Australian CHF and the Port B&F....no Tredrea, no forward line. Chad Cornes is a hard worker, and Lockwood has a fair bit of potential (as well as a major back injury), but can they really do the job between them?

When Paxman got injured, could we replace him? Yes. Did our defence fall completely apart? No. We lost our two finals due to lack of scoring power, not poor defence.

[B]

Hahahahaha, thats a beauty. I'm glad that its so obviously simple to build a forward line....I'm sure there's a lot of teams that would love for you to show them how.

[B]

Just to recap.....

the strength of our forward line is its small and medium players, as you admit. The strength of our backline are our small & medium players.......you'd be hard pressed to find a more hard-at-it backline than Port should be fielding next year....AND we also have good tall defenders.....five that can play, and two that look like they should be able to.

Our tall forwards are - Tredrea, Lockwood, Harwood (nominally) and Chad Cornes. Lade is a forward-playing ruckman, and thats great, but I doubt he can hold down a key forward position every week, or that he'd want to.

Of those four....Lockwood and Harwood rarely get games, Tredrea is a champion and Chad Cornes is still dropping in and out of games....we need a third option, and unlike with Paxman and Mead, we actually already need this option now.

You're worried about two years time......I'm worried about now, -and- in two years time. Since the 1997 draft, we've drafted 2 tall defenders (Thurstans, Morgan) and 2 tall forwards (Cornes and the now delisted Steve Brosnan)....all the rest are midfielders.

In trades since 1997, we've traded for Hardwick, Wakelin, Montgomery, Bishop, Naish and Cockatoo-Collins. Thats two tall defenders, and the rest smalls.......so in the past 4 years...what have we been missing?

Tell me what are we've been neglecting, please. Look at that, and tell me....look at us struggle when Tredrea is held in a game and tell me what we really, really need.

The reason I had to reply was by calling yourself the Draft Junkie I just can't help myself!

I don't think we have heard the cry from those clubs. It has always been said 'No Carey, No Kangaroos' however we are not that reliant on Tredrea. He's a great player but Port does not rely heavily on him to get a result. This could be more said of Wanganeen, there was always a cry of no Wanganeen, no Port Adelaide. Perhaps this is still the case, its no surprise to see Port win so many games when Wanganeen was available for 24 games. Then look at our 2000 season to see how poorly we played and how few the amount of games Wangas played. Tredreas influence is not as great as you make out.

How can you say they are 'game ready'? As you say they are 'could be' defenders. Adam Morgan is still no certainty to be on the list next year. Chad Cornes and Bowen Lockwood are 'good forwards', that makes two. Brendon Lade is also a good forward and obviously won't play all the time up forward but if needed in that area will provide a very good option, this can't be denied. They have all played at least 50 games and have far greater experience than defenders Bishop, Bassett , Thurstans and Morgan.

Did you not just say before that we had no good tall forwards, now you are saying that Cornes is a hard worker and Lockwood has potential.

Bassett did do an admirable job, I am not denying Bassetts and Bishops potential but after that? That is the question.

Well you start by telling me on how a team decides on what their defence will look like for each game?

It is fully dependant on how the oppositions forward line sets up. If the opposition goes with a small forward line there is no point putting all your tall defenders in the backline. You must have different kinds of tall defenders. Some to match the strengths of a forward like Wayne Carey, others to match the pace of Chris Tarrant and others to match the height of a Brad Ottens.

I am not saying that it is easy to produce a forward line, hell Im no coach but it doesn't take einstein to work out that a forward line is easier to set up because an oppositions forward line has a fair bit of say in how your defence will be set up.


Point taken that our smaller players are our strength. Next year we will have five defenders who can play, four maybe if Paxman doesn't come up. Two others who might come up, still a big question mark, no way you can say they are over the line just yet.

I wouldn't inlcude Harwood as a tall forward, he will probably be delisted anyway. Ackland has more chance than him. Lade might have to play up forward whether he likes it or not plus he loves to kick a goal. Can't wait to see him launching them from 70m out.

Lockwood will get more game time next year, its amazing what a preseason can do. Once minute you can't figure out how a player can make it back, six months later there he is playing most of the games. Just look at Josh Carr, many thought he would never get a game after all those games with Glenelg - just look at him now. I think we are over critical of Chad Cornes game, we must look at where he is when he plays. He plays a lot more up the ground than many of us think and takes a heap of marks. Tredrea used to play this game by going up the field more, Cornes will be good for us.

There are times when you can't think of now and have to plan for the future. I believe this is one of those times. Any tall player that we recruit in the upcoming draft will not be ready for season 2002 anyway so in effect you won't be recruiting for now. I take your point that we haven't recruited any tall forwards since the 1996 draft and is probably something we should look at soon but not with pick 15, I would be quite happy to use pick 63 though.

The only way I would consider using pick 15 for a tall forward is if Chad Cornes was to be shifted to the backline full time. He is a great mark and we could do with a player like that. We can't afford to knock the ball down to the smaller players all the time.

My reason for recruiting a tall backline player is on a need and not on an if as I believe your recruiting of a backup for Tredrea would be. The fact that we won 16 games during the season and finished third at the end of the season tells me enough to know are current side is okay. In 2003 with will be with out two key defenders in the spine. This is more crucial than a back up for Tredrea, just one key player who would soon get over an injury - retirement is forever!

[Porthos]

Originally posted by Scott

I said "Here's a tip. All of those clubs did."

I don't think we have heard the cry from those clubs. It has always been said 'No Carey, No Kangaroos' however we are not that reliant on Tredrea. He's a great player but Port does not rely heavily on him to get a result. This could be more said of Wanganeen, there was always a cry of no Wanganeen, no Port Adelaide. Perhaps this is still the case, its no surprise to see Port win so many games when Wanganeen was available for 24 games. Then look at our 2000 season to see how poorly we played and how few the amount of games Wangas played. Tredreas influence is not as great as you make out.


Mate, you don't need to hear the cry.......you need to look at what they're doing. You tell me why these clubs keep drafting key forward types.........is it sensible to sit back and say "Nah, Lloyd is good, we don't need anything else."?


Re: Thurstans and Morgan

How can you say they are 'game ready'? As you say they are 'could be' defenders. Adam Morgan is still no certainty to be on the list next year. Chad Cornes and Bowen Lockwood are 'good forwards', that makes two. Brendon Lade is also a good forward and obviously won't play all the time up forward but if needed in that area will provide a very good option, this can't be denied. They have all played at least 50 games and have far greater experience than defenders Bishop, Bassett , Thurstans and Morgan.


By game ready, I mean that unlike your hypothetical drafted tall defender from this year, these guys have had their two years development and training, and should be ready to go. You want replacements for Paxman and Mead? Here we go, we've got them -and- Scott Bassett -and- Matthew Bishop -and- Darryl Wakelin....you should at least be giving these guys a go before you start recruiting -more- defenders...as you say, Cornes and Lockwood have both played 50 games....we -know- what they can do and without a doubt it could be a lot better. We can easily find room in our side for a talented tall forward.


When Paxman got injured, could we replace him? Yes. Did our defence fall completely apart? No. We lost our two finals due to lack of scoring power, not poor defence.

Did you not just say before that we had no good tall forwards, now you are saying that Cornes is a hard worker and Lockwood has potential.

Bassett did do an admirable job, I am not denying Bassetts and Bishops potential but after that? That is the question.


Yeah, Chad is a hard worker. So is Brayden Lyle, but I reckon he'll be delisted. Lockwood has potential, but hey, so do 80 odd youngsters that went to draft camp this year......how many of them will turn out to be solid key position players?

We have a good tall forward in Tredrea, and a guy who has to play his arse off to manage to hold a key position in Cornes...really he would be better suited on a flank, but he's forced into a key position. Another actual corridor forward would be a tremendous boon.


It is fully dependant on how the oppositions forward line sets up. If the opposition goes with a small forward line there is no point putting all your tall defenders in the backline. You must have different kinds of tall defenders. Some to match the strengths of a forward like Wayne Carey, others to match the pace of Chris Tarrant and others to match the height of a Brad Ottens.

I am not saying that it is easy to produce a forward line, hell Im no coach but it doesn't take einstein to work out that a forward line is easier to set up because an oppositions forward line has a fair bit of say in how your defence will be set up.


Surely your argument makes even more reason to develop our forward line......if we can choose how our forwards set up, and stretch the oppositions defence in its weakspot, we're going a long way to winning.

We've got variety in tall backmen.........Mead the spoiler & stopper, Wakelin the sweeper/marker, Bishop the runner/marker, Bassett the marker/stopper and Paxman the stopper/spoiler

What are our forward options that are good enough to get a game...that can stretch an opposition defence? Tredrea...Cornes....uh......hmm.

Lockwood will get more game time next year, its amazing what a preseason can do. Once minute you can't figure out how a player can make it back, six months later there he is playing most of the games. Just look at Josh Carr, many thought he would never get a game after all those games with Glenelg - just look at him now. I think we are over critical of Chad Cornes game, we must look at where he is when he plays. He plays a lot more up the ground than many of us think and takes a heap of marks. Tredrea used to play this game by going up the field more, Cornes will be good for us.

I don't mind Chad Cornes playing up the ground, I think he can do it...like I said, he'd be great on a half-forward flank, or indeed, in defence. The point is....who do we have to kick to when Cornes or Tredrea are on the wing? I rate Cornes as a hard working forward...I don't doubt his endeavour, but I do doubt his ability to kick a bag of goals, or to stand up in most matches if he's played as a key forward.

Lockwood & Lade......between them have played bugger all games between them in the past two years. As you said about a couple of our defenders..."Two others who might come up, still a big question mark, no way you can say they are over the line just yet. "


There are times when you can't think of now and have to plan for the future. I believe this is one of those times. Any tall player that we recruit in the upcoming draft will not be ready for season 2002 anyway so in effect you won't be recruiting for now. I take your point that we haven't recruited any tall forwards since the 1996 draft and is probably something we should look at soon but not with pick 15, I would be quite happy to use pick 63 though.


But the point is that Thurstans and Morgan are both key defenders that have been on the list for three years......they're punts from three years ago that should be ready to go this year....Thurstans has done well in the SANFL this year, and is making the strides towards becoming a good defender. Morgan, in spite of his injuries, played well enough when he got on the field to get Magarey votes. At the wooden spoon club.


The only way I would consider using pick 15 for a tall forward is if Chad Cornes was to be shifted to the backline full time. He is a great mark and we could do with a player like that. We can't afford to knock the ball down to the smaller players all the time.

My reason for recruiting a tall backline player is on a need and not on an if as I believe your recruiting of a backup for Tredrea would be. The fact that we won 16 games during the season and finished third at the end of the season tells me enough to know are current side is okay. In 2003 with will be with out two key defenders in the spine. This is more crucial than a back up for Tredrea, just one key player who would soon get over an injury - retirement is forever!

Retirement is for ever, and a season/career ending injury can happen to any player....especially one thats already had two serious injuries to knees like Tredrea has.

If we recruit a tall forward, and they turn out good, moving Cornes to the backlines becomes a viable option...an option that we definitely don't have right now. We lack key forward options. I dunno how else I can say this. We need another key forward.

[Porthos]

I tell you what, lets compromise. We'll go for this fella...


JORDAN BARHAM - Calder Cannons - 16/6/83 - 193 cm, 77kg
Inside forward or defender who takes contested marks and has a good spring. Quick for his size and represented Victoria Metro at AFL under 18 level in 2001. Also a TAC Cup premiership player.

Whaddaya say? :)

[blackdiamond]

I tell you what, lets compromise. We'll go for this fella...


JORDAN BARHAM - Calder Cannons - 16/6/83 - 193 cm, 77kg
Inside forward or defender who takes contested marks and has a good spring. Quick for his size and represented Victoria Metro at AFL under 18 level in 2001. Also a TAC Cup premiership player.

Whaddaya say?


**********

I think a compromise may just be the way to go, just for insurance so he can play at either end. Im not completely certain about Jordan, there is one thing that worries me, his weight.

By being on our list he will become the third lightest player only behind Michael Stevens and Derek Murray.

Being so light he is going to take a few years to put the weight on that is needed.

Maybe the following players:

Josh Dicketts (Murray Bushrangers) - 9/9/83 - 193cm - 85kgs
Strong marking forward or defender who is a hard runner. Shows courage and represented Victoria Country at AFL under 18 level this year.

Quinten Lynch (West Perth) - 21/1/83 - 191cm - 101kgs
Powerful long-kicking impact player who can defend or go forward. Played senior football in the WAFL this year and won All-Australian under 18s honors.

Luke Molan (Geelong Falcons) - 12/13/83 - 192cm - 90kgs
Tough, hard key position player at either end. Strong overhead and represented Victoria Country in 2001.

Lewis Roberts-Thomson (NSW/ACT Rams) - 8/9/83 - 196cm - 86kg
Powerfull key defender or forward who is great in a contest. Strong tackler and has a rugby union background. AIS/AFL Academy member in 2000. From North Shore in Sydney.


The best of the tall players seem to be of 18 years of age, it will be interesting to see if Port believes there are any good 17 year olds. Might need to pick it early seeing that each club has only one chance to pick up a 17 year old. By the time pick 63 comes around the 17 year olds might not be so good.

What do you think?


Just back to Warren Tredrea. Although he has suffered two knee injuries we must remember that these were not knee reconstructions but dislocations. The two times he has done this injury it has put him out for about six weeks.

[Porthos]

Originally posted by Scott

I think a compromise may just be the way to go, just for insurance so he can play at either end. Im not completely certain about Jordan, there is one thing that worries me, his weight.

By being on our list he will become the third lightest player only behind Michael Stevens and Derek Murray.

Being so light he is going to take a few years to put the weight on that is needed.


To be fair, Primus was no heavyweight when he started, and he's definitely worthwhile....biggest bloke in the league. If we were really looking for a development player, I don't think weight would be a problem.


Maybe the following players:

Josh Dicketts (Murray Bushrangers) - 9/9/83 - 193cm - 85kgs
Strong marking forward or defender who is a hard runner. Shows courage and represented Victoria Country at AFL under 18 level this year.

Quinten Lynch (West Perth) - 21/1/83 - 191cm - 101kgs
Powerful long-kicking impact player who can defend or go forward. Played senior football in the WAFL this year and won All-Australian under 18s honors.

Luke Molan (Geelong Falcons) - 12/13/83 - 192cm - 90kgs
Tough, hard key position player at either end. Strong overhead and represented Victoria Country in 2001.

Lewis Roberts-Thomson (NSW/ACT Rams) - 8/9/83 - 196cm - 86kg
Powerfull key defender or forward who is great in a contest. Strong tackler and has a rugby union background. AIS/AFL Academy member in 2000. From North Shore in Sydney.

Lewis Roberts-Thompson has already gone to the Sydney Swans as part of their metropolitan zone concessions.


The best of the tall players seem to be of 18 years of age, it will be interesting to see if Port believes there are any good 17 year olds. Might need to pick it early seeing that each club has only one chance to pick up a 17 year old. By the time pick 63 comes around the 17 year olds might not be so good.

Actually, the rules changed for the 1999 draft.....you can pick up as many 17 and a half year olds as you like.....it was originally going to be a No 17 year old rule, but Collingwood bitched so they could get Fraser, so now anyone born before 30th June 1984 can be listed.

These guys could be OK, yeah. I think that except for Lynch, none of them will go in the top 20.


Just back to Warren Tredrea. Although he has suffered two knee injuries we must remember that these were not knee reconstructions but dislocations. The two times he has done this injury it has put him out for about six weeks.

He's been unable to do much for 6 weeks, and then there has been a few months recovery before he's fully fit/in form again, yeah...

[Porthos]

Just thought I'd bump this up - its an interesting thread right now.

[Deestroy]

Originally posted by Scott
Luke Molan (Geelong Falcons) - 12/13/83 - 192cm - 90kgs
Tough, hard key position player at either end. Strong overhead and represented Victoria Country in 2001.

I agree Porthos, this is an interesting thread, even for a non-Port supporter! :D Just thought I'd point out that the Dees picked up Luke Molan in last years draft, and he is looking good so far! :)

[Macca19]

I dont think we are overrated. 2 losses doesnt make us overrated. The crows had poor starts in 97 and 98 and went on to win the flag....same as Brisbane did last year. Brisbane fans (on this board) were calling for Matthews head at one stage last year...yet they went on to win the flag.

So no...i dont think we are overrated