The stat that hurts us the most. [Archive]

blumfieldisback

27 Oct 2005, 10:16

sorry longy but your eyes must deceive you because I dont recall rama being in the centre as an in and under player, from the games I have seen he has been on the half back flank or back pocket, pretty hard to get centre clearances from there. He is also coming back from a knee re-construction, canm you please name a player who had an impact on the next season after a knee re-construction, most players take a year and a half.

dont be expecting too much of rama and im not bullying him i think he's great.

and yes i knew this stat of centre clearances was why we lost this is why i believe that with our first pick we will choose another midfielder. All the great teams have proven that great midfields exerts far more pressure on opposition teams. There's no point in having a great defence if the ball comes in 200 times and theres no point in having a great forward line if you cant get it in enough, mind you we have a pretty handy forward line.

Peverill, Mark and Jason Johnson did help alleviate this problem in the last 9 games i think it would be interesting to see where we ranked with clearances between round 15-22.

Longy413

27 Oct 2005, 10:31

sorry longy but your eyes must deceive you because I dont recall rama being in the centre as an in and under player, from the games I have seen he has been on the half back flank or back pocket,

Rama is very good at extracting the ball at centre clearances. Just because he doesn't spend a lot of time in there, doesn't mean he isn't good at it.
Dustin Fletcher is a very good kick at goal but he doesn't kick a lot. Rama never had the body to handle the rigors of spending great amounts of time there. He has that now.

Also, I never said Rama was an in and under player. You don't have to be like Jason Johnson to win the ball from stoppages. Simon Black is just about the best in the comp. Some people are good at winning the ball in traffic, Rama is one of those.

I'm tipping you only remember the Rama of 2004. Because prior to that he didn't really spend a whole lot of time in the backline. It wasn't until he came back from illness the second time and no doubt had lost a bit of fitness that he became almost a permanent defender. His first year or so he spent most of his time on the wing but did start to rotate through the midfield.

you please name a player who had an impact on the next season after a knee re-construction, most players take a year and a half.

Dean Solomon came third in our best and fairest after have a knee-reconstruction.
Michael Long was All-Australian and nearly won the Brownlow after having a knee-reconstruction.

marcuz

27 Oct 2005, 10:44

Dean Solomon came third in our best and fairest after have a knee-reconstruction.
Michael Long was All-Australian and nearly won the Brownlow after having a knee-reconstruction.

They were brilliant for us but they are the exception rather than the rule when it comes to knee reco comebacks. Rama will be good for us but we need to be poatient with him. he may star but he may also need another pre-season to get his body and his confidence in it cherry ripe.

Longy413

27 Oct 2005, 10:46

They were brilliant for us but they are the exception rather than the rule when it comes to knee reco comebacks. Rama will be good for us but we need to be poatient with him. he may star but he may also need another pre-season to get his body and his confidence in it cherry ripe.

If he playes 50% of game time in the midfield then we improve.

blumfieldisback

27 Oct 2005, 10:49

michael long won all australian selection and almost the brownlow in 95, he did his knee really early in 94 the same with soly but rama did his almost halfway through the season. Thats about 6 months less rehab.

solly and long both had or have knee complications, solly was no good this year because of it.

and simon black relied on voss, hart, akermanis to get the ball to him he gets the occasional ball to himself, still a great player but where was he this year when those players were missing.

I think you might be living in the past because rama did play on the wing and occasionally through the midfield 4 years ago, but he didnt last year and his running ability wont be much better this year. He'll be comig off the bench and be put on the half back flank.

The players we will need to work on getting the ball are players like monfries, the johnson boys, peverills to get it out too players like cole, winderlich, hird, stanton and dyson who know how to use the ball better. your dreaming about rama

Longy413

27 Oct 2005, 11:00

michael long won all australian selection and almost the brownlow in 95, he did his knee really early in 94 the same with soly but rama did his almost halfway through the season. Thats about 6 months less rehab.

Rama did his at training prior to round 4. Only a month later than Solly did his.

solly and long both had or have knee complications, solly was no good this year because of it.

Solly was no good this year because of two injuries. One knee related but was nothing to do with his reconstruction. The other wasn't knee related at all.

and simon black relied on voss, hart, akermanis to get the ball to him he gets the occasional ball to himself, still a great player but where was he this year when those players were missing.

You need to watch more footy. Black set them up.
This year he averaged 22 disposals.

I think you might be living in the past because rama did play on the wing and occasionally through the midfield 4 years ago

Isn't that what I said?

but he didnt last year and his running ability wont be much better this year. He'll be comig off the bench and be put on the half back flank.

He played three games last year. When he was ill he couldn't train and that was how he lost his fitness.
Throughout 2005 he spent a lot of time in the pool and on the bike. His knee recovery was well ahead of schedule from early on. He will be ready to do all the running come pre-season. His fitness shouldn't be any grave concerns.

The players we will need to work on getting the ball are players like monfries, the johnson boys, peverills to get it out too players like cole, winderlich, hird, stanton and dyson who know how to use the ball better. your dreaming about rama

Peverill isn't a very good footballer and Cole hasn't spent a minute in the midfield. Nor Monfries although I expect he will spend a bit of time in there.

I'm not expecting Rama to be a 120 minute midfielder. But he will spend some time there and that makes our side better. He uses the ball as good as anyone on our list.

marcuz

27 Oct 2005, 11:02

If he playes 50% of game time in the midfield then we improve.

No doubt.....and if that coincides with pev getting less game time then you can add another 15%.

Longy413

27 Oct 2005, 11:02

No doubt.....and if that coincides with pev getting less game time then you can add another 15%.

Absolutely.

marcuz

27 Oct 2005, 11:03

and simon black relied on voss, hart, akermanis to get the ball to him he gets the occasional ball to himself, still a great player but where was he this year when those players were missing.

Other way around champ. Black is the guy who wins the hard ball along with Voss that gets the brisbane engine room going. Guys like aker and Lappin live off his abilty to win the ball in close.

DaSawx

27 Oct 2005, 11:50

Other way around champ. Black is the guy who wins the hard ball along with Voss that gets the brisbane engine room going. Guys like aker and Lappin live off his abilty to win the ball in close.

Lappin is the biggest reciever i've ever seen

blumfieldisback

27 Oct 2005, 11:53

solly had problems knee related what was the other reason longy?
every player has knee complications after reconstruction and your exepecting rama to be this messiah who will win clearances for us but as you say he is not in and under so how does he get the ball and how much game time will he play. (does he just run into the right spots with no physical attention, and how much petrol will he have in the tanks after knee injury and chemo)

and yeah marcuz sought of agree but if you watch aker this year he changed his game he actually got the ball in traffic, i still cant recall black getting dirty hands. Lappin on the other hands is a receiver just like rama is.

they dont win clearances they might get them because of the work of others but they dont actually win the ball. And this is the argument and essendons weakness because we dnt have enough johnsons and peverill to rotate

and longy rama is a half back flanker thats what he was drafted as and thats where he has played, where probably going to get campo and we already have cole thats two wingman, then there is winderlich. Ive been talking about where he has played the last 2 seasons and your talking about 4 seasons ago.

alll of this points to us drafting a midfielder next year who gets the ball himself yet is able to carry it.

Longy413

27 Oct 2005, 12:22

every player has knee complications after reconstruction and your exepecting rama to be this messiah who will win clearances for us

Are you thick?
How many times do I have to say, the fact that he is on the field improves our midfield.
I've said it a couple of times already that I'm not expecting him to be a 120 minute midfielder. But if you have nothing and you add something to it, you actually gain something. Rama playing half a game in the midfield is better than no Rama at all. That improves the side, is it really that hard to understand?

not in and under so how does he get the ball and how much game time will he play.

Please try and read everything rather than just bits and pieces. I've already explained this. He doesn't play in an under in the traditional bang/crash style you would associate with Jason Johnson. But he is very good at winning the ball in close, he has long arms and he is a smart footballer. He's also very good at freeing his arms and breaking out of tackles. You don't have to barge through to win the footy at a stoppage. Rama does it well, if he gets 2 a game do we not them improve?

and yeah marcuz sought of agree but if you watch aker this year he changed his game he actually got the ball in traffic, i still cant recall black getting dirty hands.

Then you really, really need to watch more footy. Simon Black won a brownlow because he was so effective at winning the footy at stop plays. He didn't have a great year in 2005 (still a good one) but he is the single best clearance footballer in the AFL. He has no peers.

Lappin on the other hands is a receiver just like rama is.

Rama is closer to Black than he is Lappin.

they dont win clearances they might get them because of the work of others but they dont actually win the ball.

The do. Simon Black is the best at it and Rama was starting to become very good at it before his illness.

And this is the argument and essendons weakness because we dnt have enough johnsons and peverill to rotate

We have too many Peverill's to rotate. He's actually not very good and actually gets most of his ball by running off the opponent he is meant to be following. Chris Heffernan was very good at winning the ball from clearances, he's nothing like Jason Johnson. You don't have to play like Jason Johnson to win stoppages. Shane Tuck was third in the AFL.

and longy rama is a half back flanker thats what he was drafted as and thats where he has played, where probably going to get campo and we already have cole thats two wingman,

That is absolute crap. Rama was drafted to play in the midfield.
He started on a wing because he was skinny, as he developed physically and gained more experience he spent more and more time playing in the middle. When he got ill, lost form and fitness he went back. He'll spend time at half back this season, he'll probably even spend time forward. But the aim will be to get him back into the midfield and any time he spends there improves us as a side.

Cole has never played a single AFL game on the wing or even in the midfield.

and your talking about 4 seasons ago.

I'm talking about the attributes he has as a footballer, where he plays his best footy and where he is of the best use to the team. There were reasons he played back, but it was never because that was his best position.

then there is winderlich.

There is Winderlich. He'll add something if he can keep playing good footy. He is good at winning and running the ball from stoppages. Funnily enough he isn't like Jason Johnson or Peverill either. He's not as good as Rama though.

alll of this points to us drafting a midfielder next year who gets the ball himself yet is able to carry it.

As we should. Rama or no Rama we need to improve our midfield.

Darealrath

27 Oct 2005, 14:08

There were times this season when i gave the boys a bit of an ironic cheer when they got a centre clearance it seemed so rare,

It's not just the players we have in there, i think we need better tactics. Eagles, Swans and Crows particularly seem to have things a lot better worked out than us when it comes to setting up at stoppages.

windyhill

27 Oct 2005, 18:19

The stat that hurts me the most is The 1997 National Draft , Pick 4 , M.Bolton. It`s stung for years that one.

Schopp

27 Oct 2005, 21:47

Decent hitouts is what may the cause of the problem, the pure effect of why we arent winning clearances. We were second last in 05 with clearances. West Coast had 917 clearances, we had around 530. I know hitouts dont always go straight down the throat of the midfielder but generally you could say the more a team gets hitouts, the more opportunity their midfielders will have to clear it.

I see West Coast with a 204 cm Cox and a highly athletic Seaby and guess who has the best midfield in the league, Brisbane dominating in recent times with their group of monster ruckman - once again guess who had the best midfield in the league. I know both teams had great midfielders but they are made to look like unbeatable champs due to the ruckmen they have had - IMO.

And then Brissie draft Cam wood a guy who is 204 cm, whose arms are about 10cm longer than the average of someone his height - they still worry me. St Kilda getting flogged later in the PF largely because they cut Noble loose at end of last year.

We need our ruck division more functional and competitive for an entire season. I know that Laycock and Cartledge are only young but they need to really step up next year to assist Hill or replace him if he goes down with injury.

pWnd

27 Oct 2005, 23:42

yup i think the ruck is where the dons are really hurting badly
a good ruckman can make some fairly ordinary midfielders look like stars

i like all the talk about how it will be better next year etc etc, but with a miserable 38.7% clearance and dead last in the league, can it get any worse???

Pevers-Legend

28 Oct 2005, 10:37

We won a flag with sommerville rucking - Denham and odonnell and so on just learnt to shark the oppositions hitouts.

Misit is the factor here - I had hoped Watson would take his place. we need a Misit getting the ball out - Long was also excellent at this, hell even heff circa 99-00.

We need guys who can get it out.

Watson knows how to, JJ can, Hird and Rioli can, but after that it gets very thin, and they aren't all midifelders.

Monfries is the guy I am hoping will do it.

Ramma is an interesting one. Wingman for mine - geez at the start of 2003 he was getting ready to tear the comp apart. What a massive shame.

blumfieldisback

28 Oct 2005, 11:44

Longy413

28 Oct 2005, 11:50

longy your thick mate i dont even read your mombo jombo, as soon as i read that you thought rama would help us with centre clearances i totally disregarded your opinion.

He will not be part of our midfield for the year 2006 he probably wont even play until round 6. All the best longy im not here to argue anymore.

Because your wrong?
Getting too hard?
Wondered why no one else has taken your point of view?

Your on your own here young fella, but well done for having a crack.

Kettles

28 Oct 2005, 14:39

The stat that hurts me the most is The 1997 National Draft , Pick 4 , M.Bolton. It`s stung for years that one.

You're a deadset bloody giveaway Gardiner.

I know it's you - cos you're the only net user who can't use apostrophes!

It's ' not `

And you know very well I've publicly come out and called Bolton a spastic - he bloody well is. But at least he's a trier. I have no doubt whatsoever, that if Bolton's contract was up, so was his time at Windy Hill.

Your boy, however, now not even at the club, had it all - and showed ferkin' nothing. It's time you woke up and smelled the coffee, John. Time you fessed up - and said, "Yes Kettles, you're right, when I pumped up his tyres before season 05, you quite rightly said he's flashy and $h!+house and selfish and lazy" - and guess what Kettles .... you were right all along.

windyhill

28 Oct 2005, 17:50

You're a deadset bloody giveaway Gardiner.

I know it's you - cos you're the only net user who can't use apostrophes!

It's ' not `

And you know very well I've publicly come out and called Bolton a spastic - he bloody well is. But at least he's a trier. I have no doubt whatsoever, that if Bolton's contract was up, so was his time at Windy Hill.

Your boy, however, now not even at the club, had it all - and showed ferkin' nothing. It's time you woke up and smelled the coffee, John. Time you fessed up - and said, "Yes Kettles, you're right, when I pumped up his tyres before season 05, you quite rightly said he's flashy and $h!+house and selfish and lazy" - and guess what Kettles .... you were right all along.
Showed nothing , we will just forget `03 shall we ?

Thanks for the punctuation lesson, condescending as always !

Kettles

28 Oct 2005, 23:25

Showed nothing , we will just forget `03 shall we ?

Thanks for the punctuation lesson, condescending as always !

Nonetheless, a big call from me at the time. (And proven correct as well.)

He had one good season - 3 seasons ago. In reality, and in this cut-throat game, this means diddly. FFS, even Bolton had a brilliant season 3 years ago...didn't do much for his stocks in your eyes did it???

And Murphy had one shocker - one year ago - that's enuff for most on here to want to send him packing.

windyhill

29 Oct 2005, 00:15

Nonetheless, a big call from me at the time. (And proven correct as well.)

He had one good season - 3 seasons ago. In reality, and in this cut-throat game, this means diddly. FFS, even Bolton had a brilliant season 3 years ago...didn't do much for his stocks in your eyes did it???

And Murphy had one shocker - one year ago - that's enuff for most on here to want to send him packing.
Bolton and brilliance , that`s like saying me and the winning tatts numbers every week. Please fill me in on this season of brilliance , from our gun pick no.4, I must have blinked.

blumfieldisback

29 Oct 2005, 09:43

We get, who I rate as our best clearance player back next season.
I think we'll improve in that area of the game. Rama is so good at winning the ball at ground level, those long arms and agility help him out there.

Slattery and Monfries are also good at it. Likewise Winderlich.

longy you are a moron and a half this is what you quoted. The topic of this discussion is us not winning enough centre clearances and you quote rama as being our best centre clearance player. wrong wrong wrong. for starters Jason johnson or peverill would have to be our best then mark johnson and again rama is not a centre clearance player, a wingman at best he will never ever help get the centre clearance. Plus he is returning from a KNEE injury do you know how hard that is, no one could imagine how hard that is especially when he was establishing himself again from cancer. You get knee tendanitis and hamstring problems, but whoa rama has such strong legs and upper body with long arms and legs he'll be right, and dont fgorget his agility.

Because im wrong and young fella, mate the fact that im on this site is a little embarrasing that i talk to such puppies as yourself, get a life and dont turn arguments around.

Fact is you think that rama and winderlich hahahahahahahaha lol are good at centre clearances. Winderlich can hardly get the ball, his so good how many games has he played in the 3 years, his so good where did we finish with centre clearances this year and how many did he have, oh but his also good. Ive been watching my side for 28 years i think i know a little about football mate.

Now go ahead and take quotes out of my argument and see if you can squirm yourself out of this corner, your nothing and have no argument. watch some tapes from 2005 and stop looking at the 2000 premiership team.

"We get, who I rate as our best clearance player back next season.
I think we'll improve in that area of the game. Rama is so good at winning the ball at ground level, those long arms and agility help him out there".

blumfieldisback

29 Oct 2005, 09:47

PS im sorry to anyone else for this, this is all our discussion board and I will try not to turn this into a one on one fiasco, infact i have tried but to be challenged on a fact that ramanaskaus is not a centre clearance player is a challenge i will take on.

and i do believe that marcuz said that dont expect to much from ramanauskas.

Jex

29 Oct 2005, 14:16

If I were naming our best side, I'd have Rama in the middle...but due to his illness/injury problems, I'm guessing he'll play mostly across halfback when he returns.

JJ is easily our best clearance player. He shoulders way too much of stoppage burden on his own, especially with Misiti gone.

We didn't have a genuine ruckman for the first half of last year and that was our biggest problem of all. Hille looks well on his way to becoming a very good ruckman/follower. He won't always win the hitouts, but is much more competitive in that area than he used to be. The rest of his game is developing very nicely.

We still lack class in the middle. The guys who could provide it are Hird, Rioli, Rama or perhaps McPhee. In the twighlight of his career, Jimmy should spend most of his time up forward. I wouldn’t bother putting all my eggs in the Rioli basket…due to historical evidence. Anything we get from Rama will be a bonus. And McPhee (like Hird) will probably be used all over the place.

Maybe the answer to adding class to the “inside midfield” will come in the form of Stanton, Dyson, Monfries or Watson. JJ & Pev are excellent grunt players, but succeed because of their hard work rather than silky skills. Stants carriers the ball brilliantly and wins lots of it. It’s line ball whether he’ll end up a super classy player or super hard working player (like JJ) though...it all depends on whether his disposal continues to get better. Dyson seems more outside than inside, Monfries is still a bit light for the midfield and Watson’s aerobic capacity is very questionable.

marcuz

29 Oct 2005, 17:09

JJ is easily our best clearance player. He shoulders way too much of stoppage burden on his own, especially with Misiti gone.

See i think David Hille is our best clearence player its just that we dont have him fit enough every year.

Rama will make a good clearance specialist as he has already shown the ability to win his own footy when played as a defender and his psychomotor skills are unrivalled amongst the senior group. That shows the ability to once having won the footy he has the ability to see a teamate and spot him up quicker than anybody else.

Its an asset guys like Black and diesel williams etc exploited to the fullest with devestating effect. No doubt stemming from his junior basketball days when running the point gaurd spot you need great court vision, he brings those skills to the football field and its about time we started to use them where its going to hurt teams most and thats in the guts.

blumfieldisback

29 Oct 2005, 23:00

I think monfries will be like black, if we ever need someone to stand up to get centre clearances its rioli but ive beeen saying that for 3 years and his injuries just accumulate. This nathan jones is likened to luke ball maybe his worth a punt. luke ball isnt that tall but he is a very worthy player

Longy413

30 Oct 2005, 08:15

longy you are a moron and a half

Personal insults. Intelligent.

you quote rama as being our best centre clearance player. wrong wrong wrong.

No I didn't. Please don't speak for me. I said he was our best clearance player.
Clearances aren't just won in the centre.

for starters Jason johnson or peverill would have to be our best then mark

Jason wins our most clearances, but his quality of ball is ordinary. He gets his hands on it first but how often do we get the next possession?
Our problem is two fold, we don't win enough and when we do it isn't of high quality.
Peverill isn't very good. If we had a good midfield he wouldn't get a game.

rama is not a centre clearance player, a wingman at best he will never ever help get the centre clearance.

That's interesting. You're the only one that seems to think that is the case.

If I were naming our best side, I'd have Rama in the middle

Rama will make a good clearance specialist as he has already shown the ability to win his own footy when played as a defender and his psychomotor skills are unrivalled amongst the senior group. That shows the ability to once having won the footy he has the ability to see a teamate and spot him up quicker than anybody else.

Plus he is returning from a KNEE injury do you know how hard that is, no one could imagine how hard that is

I do actually. I've had a knee and ankle reconstruction, not much fun.
But he's going to do a full pre-season. He gets to train for a full six months before he plays his first game. That is on top of the copious amounts of swimming and bike work he has already done.

You get knee tendanitis and hamstring problems, but whoa rama has such strong legs and upper body with long arms and legs he'll be right, and dont fgorget his agility.

Have I said anywhere in this thread that I expect him to play full games?
That I expect him to dominate?
Or that I expect him to come back in the side and improve us?
He only has to play (as I have said before) half a game and we improve as a side because he is a quality footballer. Just be careful to read everything please.

Because im wrong and young fella, mate the fact that im on this site is a little embarrasing that i talk to such puppies as yourself, get a life and dont turn arguments around.

Then bugger off.

Fact is you think that rama and winderlich hahahahahahahaha lol are good at centre clearances. Winderlich can hardly get the ball, his so good how many games has he played in the 3 years, his so good where did we finish with centre clearances this year and how many did he have, oh but his also good.

So you don't want to give players the opportunity to develop.
Once again you aren't reading everything I write.
Winderlich's clearance work was a highlight of his play in the VFL. He ran the ball from stop plays (note this doesn't have to be in the centre) several times in the AFL in limited opportunities.

i think i know a little about football mate.

A little would just about cover it.

Now go ahead and take quotes out of my argument and see if you can squirm yourself out of this corner, your nothing and have no argument.

Interesting. You're the only one in this thread taking that point of view and I have nothing?

and i do believe that marcuz said that dont expect to much from ramanauskas.

Neither do I. And I'm not sure why you are making out that I have.
I said it several times that he only has to play half games to improve us as a side.

I think monfries will be like black

I thought you said Black was a receiver?

blumfieldisback

30 Oct 2005, 20:46

isnt this whole thread about essendon ranking 16th in centre clearances? then you longy go and say its ok because we get our best clearance player back? do u want me to highlight your quote again, you cant be a clearance player if you dont play in the middle. he wont be back before round 6 or 9 and then he will take nearly the season to adjust.

simon black isnt your typical in and under player, he's no greg williams or a sean denham he received alot from shaun hart and michael voss, yeah he can get his own ball but not like greg william sean denham, misiti etc that why i likened monfries to him and thats why i think we need nathan jones.

and i could grab a line where you started these insults, in fact i could get two. if you think that someone cant make a valid point or suggestion because of there age ie "young fella", I MUST BE WRONG IF IM A YOUNG FELLA, then you cant be of mature or intelligent mind.

Oh and how on earth is joel reynolds playing CHB for Bendigo, if this is even true and quoted by you, justify him staying on the list, what his going to play CHB for the seniors at 180cm, this is a good valid point by you, because i rmember tony liberatore taking huge speccys and kicking 80 goals from full forward one year.

"or did he shag your missus" quoted by longy again, i guess theres no harm in trying young fella.

Longy413

31 Oct 2005, 06:08

isnt this whole thread about essendon ranking 16th in centre clearances?

Yes. Rama only has to get one clearance for us to improve. He wasn't there in 2005, he will be in 2006. That is an improvement. I never said it would solve our problem or that he is the answer, just that he will help us improve in an area we lack. I fail to see how he can't. Be it large or small.

iyou cant be a clearance player if you dont play in the middle.

Apart from the fact, you can win centre clearances off a wing, I was talking aobut clearances in general. It isn't just clearances in the centre of the ground in which we struggle. And you can win stoppage clearances anywhere on the field. Remember, I'm not the only one in this thread who thinks Rama is good at winning the footy at stop plays, perhaps take those guys to task as well.

ihe wont be back before round 6 or 9 and then he will take nearly the season to adjust.

That's interesting. Rama himself has said he will be ready round 1.
Adrian Dodoro said on the Essendon Website that he will be ready for round 1 and Mark Harvey has said he looks forward to seeing him back in the midfield where he plays his best footy.

simon black isnt your typical in and under player

Correct. But he is the best clearance player in the league.

yeah he can get his own ball but not like greg william sean denham, misiti etc

He's better than Denham and Misiti.

thats why i think we need nathan jones.

That belongs in another thread. But I agree, we have a problem in this area and Nathan Jones would help us rectify it. However I believe he will go between our first two picks.

and i could grab a line where you started these insults, in fact i could get two. if you think that someone cant make a valid point or suggestion because of there age ie "young fella", I MUST BE WRONG IF IM A YOUNG FELLA, then you cant be of mature or intelligent mind.

Once again you are putting words in my mouth. I never said you were wrong for any reason other than I think you are wrong.
It wasn't an insult, just a form of encouragement.

Oh and how on earth is joel reynolds playing CHB for Bendigo, if this is even true and quoted by you

It is true. I actually watched a bit of footy.

justify him staying on the list, what his going to play CHB for the seniors at 180cm, this is a good valid point by you

Once again you are putting words in my mouth. I never stated Joel playing at CHB at Bendigo and doing it very well was justification for him staying on the list. It was in reply to a person he said he hadn't shown anything at AFL or VFL level, which was incorrect. I never once suggested he would play CHB at AFL level.

And Joel is 187cm's.

"or did he shag your missus" quoted by longy again, i guess theres no harm in trying young fella.

If you had been around a while you would know (not that that's a negative) that, that poster had started a couple of threads on Joel Reynolds. He has some sort of obsession relating to Joel. And posing a question is hardly an insult, just an inquiry.

blumfieldisback

31 Oct 2005, 07:51

Yes. Rama only has to get one clearance for us to improve. He wasn't there in 2005, he will be in 2006. That is an improvement. I never said it would solve our problem or that he is the answer, just that he will help us improve in an area we lack. I fail to see how he can't. Be it large or small.
Apart from the fact, you can win centre clearances off a wing, I was talking aobut clearances in general. It isn't just clearances in the centre of the ground in which we struggle. And you can win stoppage clearances anywhere on the field. Remember, I'm not the only one in this thread who thinks Rama is good at winning the footy at stop plays, perhaps take those guys to task as well.

so with guys like stanton, dyson, Murphy, and lovett why didnt we win enough clearances they would all do the same job as rama there all link up players and u can throw in monfies too because we couldnt win the ball to begin with and that was what this thread was all about, then u come up with the first message saying dont worry we'll get rama back. This threeda wasn't about link up players its about johnsons and peverills, whos going to be the next bloke to stand up for us when these guys rest, and i fail to see rama on the wing when we'll have cole and campo on them so where do u see rama fitting in anyway.

That's interesting. Rama himself has said he will be ready round 1.
Adrian Dodoro said on the Essendon Website that he will be ready for round 1 and Mark Harvey has said he looks forward to seeing him back in the midfield where he plays his best footy.

they all say they'll be ready by round one he hasnt even started the pre-serason yet so hows he going to know how his knee feels, do u even watch footy from previous seasons, didn't david schwarze try and come back earlier then 12 months and what happpened to him, what about josh francou or matty primus, gardiner, michael long hurt his knee again in 96 with his prosterior. If you come back to soon from knee injury you are more prone to doing it again, and how well have these guys done since coming back? so do u want him to come back by round 1 or get it right and come back about round 6 or 9, because he'll be playing a few reserves games before he gets in the seniors.

He's better than Denham and Misiti. really why? there both premiership players, misiti is a dual premiership player, there all different types of players so how do u guage that opinion, and whos putting words into others mouths now because i never said he was a lesser player anyway.

That belongs in another thread. But I agree, we have a problem in this area and Nathan Jones would help us rectify it. However I believe he will go between our first two picks. "why in another thread" this is about us getting more clearances and this guys is about helping that problem he is likened to luke ball.

u are putting words in my mouth. I never said you were wrong for any reason other than I think you are wrong.
It wasn't an insult, just a form of encouragement.

dont try and encourage someone again, would u like me to cut and paste the quote out because you said "because you are wrong" thats doesn't sound like me putting words into your mouth that sounds like something you said, ands in typicval fashion you try and back down by saying you never said it, show me stats from 2000-2003 and show me the perecentage of centre clearances rama had against the rest of the team, and then tell me which game he had his best centre clearances.

It is true. I actually watched a bit of footy. " must have been VFL then or your favourite moments from 2000.

Once again you are putting words in my mouth. I never stated Joel playing at CHB at Bendigo and doing it very well was justification for him staying on the list. It was in reply to a person he said he hadn't shown anything at AFL or VFL level, which was incorrect. I never once suggested he would play CHB at AFL level.

"you said he played well at bendigo at chb" the thread was in reference to joel being retained on the list.

If you had been around a while you would know (not that that's a negative) that, that poster had started a couple of threads on Joel Reynolds. He has some sort of obsession relating to Joel. And posing a question is hardly an insult, just an inquiry.

its a childish question and reflects the intelligence of a person

Longy413

31 Oct 2005, 08:14

its a childish question and reflects the intelligence of a person

What does poor grammar, comprehension and calling someone a moron and a half reflect?

whirl

31 Oct 2005, 09:30

even without the knee there have to be grave doubts on rama, he wasn't playing good football before it happened and he wasn't fit enough to play in the middle for reasons we all know. Hopefully the time off due to the knee has allowed his body to re-cooperate. But I can't see him spending much time in the middle next year, not off an interrupted pre-season added to his other concerns, though I do think he can play well there (before the original growth in his neck was discovered he was playing exceptional football in the middle and was on his way to a high b&f finish imho).

for the record, my opinion is that Simon Black is an exceptional winner of his own ball.

But we certainly need help in the middle. A fully fit Hille, with an improved and fitter Laycock might help. The mythical figures of a fully-fit Dean Rioli and Jobe Watson would for winning and feeding the ball imho. Longer term I think we'll see Monfries winning plenty of ball out of the centre square. Dyson or Winderlich perhaps with another years development, Stanton is much more of a wingman.

A lot of ifs.

Peverill, though he has the heart of a lion, isn't really a very good midfielder. And doesn't win much out of the centre square itself.

Longy413

31 Oct 2005, 09:38

not off an interrupted pre-season added to his other concerns

He'll do a full pre-season mate. Already started running.

zafa23

31 Oct 2005, 10:38

You guys mentioned Nathan Jones as a possible solution for the future. But as Longy mentioned I'd be surprised if we got him with Pick 7, so what about Swallow. He's also supposedly a hard in and under player, with great pack breaking skills. I definitely wouldn't mind if we picked this kid up. Also, seeing as he's been playing in the WAFL, wouldn't be surprised if he made a few appearances for us next year.

blumfieldisback

31 Oct 2005, 12:04

well im in total agreement with zaffa and i think i can trust your judgement on football matters. I still shake my head about longy trying to say rama will make a comeback and have immediate influence on the team.

but ill be man enough to say i may have erred on the wrong side of being right about simon black, yeah he is a ball winner but not like luke ball who constantly gets his head smashed in because he is fearless and has eyes only for the ball whilst under everyones centre of balance.

on swallow yeah I thought we might take him, To be honest I have not seen any juniour matches so I can only gather my thoughts of the reviews in footydraft.com, i just have grave doubts on someone who was not taken in last years draft to be taken tope 10 in the following and I dont really want someone who has poor kicking skills. It would be a bit of a waste if Lloyd made a great lead for it to only be kicked to the oppositin, but then again whats different to years gone past.

If Jones went earlier then pick 7 who would be available, because i think essendon would try there luck on getting a midfielder at pick 19 whilst getting a key defender with pick 7.

Longy413

31 Oct 2005, 12:31

well im in total agreement with zaffa and i think i can trust your judgement on football matters. I still shake my head about longy trying to say rama will make a comeback and have immediate influence on the team.

You don't get it do you. He only has to play to make an influence.
You can't make an influence from the grand stand. You can from the footy field and players have done it before him. I have never said anything other than I expect him to play half games early days. That is all he has to do to make an influence.

If Jones went earlier then pick 7 who would be available, because i think essendon would try there luck on getting a midfielder at pick 19 whilst getting a key defender with pick 7.

Jones won't go before 7. He'll be available with our first pick, but I doubt we'll take him. Like I said and Zafa agreed with (and you for some reason then agreed with Zafa and shook your head at me despite Zafa saying he agreed with it). The most likely scenario is that Jones will go between our first pick and our second. Pendlebury is in the mix and he'll be a very welcome addition to our midfield. Tall midfielder with a great leap and very good foot skills (Dal Santo like).

Schopp

31 Oct 2005, 12:46

See i think David Hille is our best clearence player its just that we dont have him fit enough every year.

Agree with Hille being a good clearance player, gets down and dirty for a big man.

[/QUOTE]Its an asset guys like Black and diesel williams etc exploited to the fullest with devestating effect. [/QUOTE]

I have seen Black handball over his head straight to a team-mate, his awareness is amazing. You'd think he has eyes in the back of his head.

blumfieldisback

31 Oct 2005, 13:18

well i think jones will go top 7

blumfieldisback

31 Oct 2005, 13:25

so longy what your saying then is that rama will have an influence on the game as long as he plays, hmmm fair enough cant argue with that. I saw Mark Alvey having an influence on a few games this year too, so did henneman, bolton and cupido.

Longy as ron barassi once said to gerard healy You give me stats and i'll shut up, but make sure your reference them, give me stats on rama previous to 2004 and lets see how many centre clearances he helped in and tell me how much time he spent in the middle.

Longy413

31 Oct 2005, 14:11

blumfieldisback

1 Nov 2005, 15:37

Firstly, comparing Ramanauskas to Henneman, Bolton and Alvey is just wrong. And Cupido did actualy influence the result of a match this season.

In 2002 Ramanauskas really started to make an impact as a midfielder at AFL level. Not just a wingman but a midfielder.
He finished 5th at the club in clearance stats (2000 and 2001 he finished 7th).
In 2003 he only played 10 games but averaged 2.4 clearances a game, Misiti 3.0, Mark Johnson 3.0 weren't that far ahead of him. Jason Johnson lead the club with 4.2 per game.

2004 was obviously a pretty bad year and he was back in the pack, 1.4 a game. Jason Johnson was first with 4.9, Hird 3.2, Misiti 2.5 were the top 3. He wasn't fit enough to run in the middle. However, reports suggest he is now. He has been doing a hell of a lot of bike and swim work. He has bulked up and his upper body strength has improved and he has started running. He will do a full preseason so the indications are that his fitness (as opposed to match fitness) will be somewhere near where it was at the start of 2003.

But I guess that is all subjective depending on whether or not you want to use stats are your guide. I guess another avenue is just to watch some footy.

With his talent and skill (and as I have said plenty of times), he only has to play half games to improve us as a side.

I doubt very highly than 7. We may take him with our first pick but that really depends on what happens before us. 10-15 mark is more likely.

firstly you never referenced your stats, for the second time that I have asked for them?

I never compared them (bolton, hennememan etc etc) you said that him just being on the ground will have an impact, well any player playing makes an impact, hell andrew lee if he plays in the midfield he'll help our centre clearances and our tema if he contributes to one, pfft anyone can say that. Cupido kicked a couple of goals this year so he helped our forward line which contributed to our team performance, so much so he got delisted.

Talent and skill dont matter when you comeback from knee injuries. He has spent almost 2 years in the wilderness it will take quite a while before confidence is restored e.g josh francou is pretty talented and skillfull but what happened this year. Not talented or skillfull enough what about Michael Voss, Neale Daniher, Mitchell White, Tim Watson, Paul Kelly there are many more and too much to name who after coming back from knee injuries were only shadows of the legends they created.

all knee injury victims do bike work and swim work? drrrr! so they dont create any pressure via impact on there knees, you dont play footy on a bike!!! Do you think that david schwarze and josh francou thought they weren't ready to go before re-injuring themselves.

douggie the don

1 Nov 2005, 23:07

i think you guys (longy + blumfieldisback) should start your own thread and take it somewhere else...
luv the passion you two are showing but after 3 full pages of it.........

Anyway IMO i think that nathan jones will still be avaliable at 7
i'm pretty sure the 3 clubs above us will get a small and a tall
Smalls; murphy, ellis, hurn
Tall; kennedy, ryder, clark
i'm just not sure what order

i've seen him play and he is the goods at clearences!!!!!!!!
i also think Watson could give us some of that X factor he's been promising
with a pre-season under his belt he could be lethal

if everything goes right which i hope it does (why waste time in the off-season being anything but an optimast) our centre square will look like this

Hille
Rioli/watson
J. Johnson/Mo-Fro (monfries)
Jones/stanton
with the option of changing one of them for a bit more speed if needed

OB1

2 Nov 2005, 08:22

I was going through some videos on the weekend & came accross a game we won against Brissy in Brissy 2000. The thing I found most interesting was the clearances of 5-1 in our favour in the 1st quarter alone. Brissy had Voss, Acker, Black & Lappin but we still smashed them in the clearances. Even as good as our 2000 side was I always thought the midfield was our weakest area. Looking back at that game I realised how much the drop in form & eventual loss of Heff, Blummers & Cara hurt us & of course its easy to forget just how good Smokin Joe was in the middle. I honestly believe if we can break even in the midfield for most of 2006 then we can win more games than we lose. We've got a long way to go because I believe our midfield has been just about the worst in the comp for 2-3 years. Hopefuly Stants & Ricky can continue to improve & possibly Campo & Cole can give us more options.

Karlostj

2 Nov 2005, 10:40

longy413 you seem to know a fair bit about Rama, I hope that your faith in him is well founded. I was watching a 2001 Essendon vs Eagles match with Rama playing and the commentators were comparing him to a young Peter Matera - quite the compliment. The comparison was due to his agility and pace... So perhaps you have a valid point about him improving our clearances. I also believe that he holds the vertical leap record for the draft camp... Although perhaps that was just for his draft year...?

I remember how super Rama was back in those days, he was one of Essendon's best players and was getting better. I hope that he can come back to that form or better. By the sounds of it he has been building up his body strength that he lost due to cancer.

Certainly looms as a very handy pick up (so to speak) for next season as with a number of players that were down on form due to injury this season (eg solomon, McPhee, McVeigh etc).

On the same note, I also saw a Freo vs Essendon game from 2002 with a young Reynolds running about. I only saw bits of the game, but he was playing quite well, running the ball out of the back line and competing well in the air in big packs. He seemed quick with a good leap on him. Hopefully he will a player to really improve next season. Similarly with Watson, Rioli and Johns.