View Full Version : Why do u continue to pick up finished players?
Fev0lution
8 Nov 2005, 20:47
Allan, murphy and now campo...i really dont understand, its not like you have the best list in the comp and only need top up players..i think the club is scared of sheedy and his time is up but how can you tell the coach of 1 million years...the big rebuild and move forward won't happen until there is a new coach, it has to come sometime
Glen Bowyer, Daniel Harford, Ricky Mott, Heath Scotland, David Clark, Jordon Bannister?
And some pearlers from recent years: Micky Maguane, Michael Mansfield, Steven O'Reilly
Fev0lution
8 Nov 2005, 21:06
Glen Bowyer, Daniel Harford, Ricky Mott, Heath Scotland, David Clark, Jordon Bannister?
And some pearlers from recent years: Micky Maguane, Michael Mansfield, Steven O'Reilly
yeah agree...but im asking the same of essendon
daveyboy3
8 Nov 2005, 21:45
Essendon got good value out of Allan for a year until he got injured, and Murphy for a year and a half. Camporeale should be handy pick up for two years until Essendon's younger midfielders are mature enough to play their full time.
Longy413
9 Nov 2005, 05:12
Glen Bowyer, Daniel Harford, Ricky Mott, Heath Scotland, David Clark, Jordon Bannister?
And some pearlers from recent years: Micky Maguane, Michael Mansfield, Steven O'Reilly
You forgot Mick Martyn.
We drafted Allan and Murphy because we had requirements to fill.
Allan because we had young developing ruckman who weren't ready (and probably still aren't). We drafted Murphy because we needed a midfielder to fill a void while Stanton/Dyson etc developed. We needed someone who could use the footy. It worked. We made the finals, they both performed well. Allan allowed Hille to push forward, that won us a final against Melbourne. Murphy won our best finals player award. That allowed our young players to experience two finals, Stanton, Welsh, Lovett-Murray etc all got finals experience under their belt. Don't ever, ever under-estimate how important that is.
We look likely to draft Camporeale. We need midfield depth. We need someone to take the heat off a young Stanton, we don't want a 20 year old getting tagged out of a game already. We need someone with good foot skills to utilise a strong forward line (Hird, Lloyd, Lucas) effectively. I'm tipping when it comes around to the PSD, when all the best kids in a weak draft have been selected, there isn't going to be anyone better to fill that void than Camporeale.
It is as simple as picking the best available player to fill a weakness in our side. It really isn't that hard to comprehend.
rioli brownlow
9 Nov 2005, 08:08
You forgot Mick Martyn.
We drafted Allan and Murphy because we had requirements to fill.
Allan because we had young developing ruckman who weren't ready (and probably still aren't). We drafted Murphy because we needed a midfielder to fill a void while Stanton/Dyson etc developed. We needed someone who could use the footy. It worked. We made the finals, they both performed well. Allan allowed Hille to push forward, that won us a final against Melbourne. Murphy won our best finals player award. That allowed our young players to experience two finals, Stanton, Welsh, Lovett-Murray etc all got finals experience under their belt. Don't ever, ever under-estimate how important that is.
We look likely to draft Camporeale. We need midfield depth. We need someone to take the heat off a young Stanton, we don't want a 20 year old getting tagged out of a game already. We need someone with good foot skills to utilise a strong forward line (Hird, Lloyd, Lucas) effectively. I'm tipping when it comes around to the PSD, when all the best kids in a weak draft have been selected, there isn't going to be anyone better to fill that void than Camporeale.
It is as simple as picking the best available player to fill a weakness in our side. It really isn't that hard to comprehend.
and longmuir and chambers
The Camporeale debate could go on forever. I take the point about finals experience but there are certain things I just can't cop in a footballer. kinnear Beatson who is one of the better recruiters in my opinion says he won't look at a player who does not put his head over the ball. Murphy does not put his head over the ball consistently and I have the same questions about Camporeale. Murphy did play some good games for us but he isnt very accountable and nor is camporeale. Camporeale also is the Greg Louganis of AFL footy and should be in Uruguay. Playing in finals is great experience for kids but I think there are other things that are more important to the culture of a footy club. Im not sure Campo or murph are strong enough in those areas. Sheeds mentioned that Murph was a replacement for Caracella. When Caracella played his best footy we were largely dominant and could carry a player who was highly skilled but a bit timid and loose. The fact is we cant at this present time and it is not an ideal role model for our kids. with our late picks-51 and beyond we can get some decent prospects. we need an emerging tall- I like James wall but Neaves, Warnock, Lynch and graham may be still available. dyson was available in the 40s and projections have White possibly available at 51.
Longy413
9 Nov 2005, 08:30
with our late picks-51 and beyond we can get some decent prospects. we need an emerging tall- I like James wall but Neaves, Warnock, Lynch and graham may be still available. dyson was available in the 40s and projections have White possibly available at 51.
We won't be using pick 51 on Heff or Campo.
It is rare that kids get drafted in the PSD and few clubs will take picks beyond 51 because a lot of clubs don't rate the strength of the draft. We will have 4 picks in the rookie draft, so won't miss out on much. Warnock is more than likely to still be there when we have our first and maybe even second rookie pick.
We are still adding 8 kids to the list this season. That is plenty to work with.
Do you think Warnock will be availble that late. Im not sure about that. I guess my main point which you didnt address was that I dont like the way Campo or Murph play their footy.
ManWithNoName
9 Nov 2005, 08:45
Why do you continue to finish on the bottom of the ladder?
Longy413
9 Nov 2005, 08:52
Do you think Warnock will be availble that late. Im not sure about that. I guess my main point which you didnt address was that I dont like the way Campo or Murph play their footy.
I think he will. Most clubs are pretty right for young ruckman, he needs a lot of developing. Not sure anyone will fill a spot on their list with a bloke who probably isn't going to play for 4 years.
I don't like the way Murphy and Campo play their footy either. But I do like the way they use the footy. Not everyone can play like Jason Johnson and we need someone with quality foot skills to make the most of the forwards we have. You need to find the right mix and Campo I believe adds to that.
I think he will. Most clubs are pretty right for young ruckman, he needs a lot of developing. Not sure anyone will fill a spot on their list with a bloke who probably isn't going to play for 4 years.
I don't like the way Murphy and Campo play their footy either. But I do like the way they use the footy. Not everyone can play like Jason Johnson and we need someone with quality foot skills to make the most of the forwards we have. You need to find the right mix and Campo I believe adds to that.
How long since Lloydy has kicked or been close to 100 goals, its been a while. With a potential forward line of Lloyd, Lucas, Hird, Lovett, we need all the delivery we can get.
Longy413
9 Nov 2005, 09:11
How long since Lloydy has kicked or been close to 100 goals, its been a while. With a potential forward line of Lloyd, Lucas, Hird, Lovett, we need all the delivery we can get.
He kicked 90 odd in 2004. But yes you're right.
We need skill and depth through the midfield. Campo can add that. More so than anyone else likely to be available at that stage of the draft.
Karlostj
9 Nov 2005, 09:41
Its not like Essendon are trading first round picks for older players. Essendon have delisted, traded and retired players that have all been relatively experienced in terms of age. These guys need to be replaced. Its no point having 10 18 year olds in the side. We need a blend of ages.
using the four picks in the draft that is still adding 4 young players to the side (a lot of clubs aren't even adding that many eg dockers have room for 3, like wise with the Eagles).
Adding Campo and Heff will just fill a void (at least in age) made through the delisting of guys like Bullen, Alvey and Haynes. We will still be picking up the same number of young guys as other clubs and possibly more.
Its not like Essendon will be robbing peter to pay Paul, it is a mix of players, some to fill voids, others to develop for the future. When you lose 8 players (and possibly more), you can't replace them all with 18 year olds.
How long since Lloydy has kicked or been close to 100 goals, its been a while. With a potential forward line of Lloyd, Lucas, Hird, Lovett, we need all the delivery we can get.
Nash, dyson, Rioli, lovett murray, Monfries, Reynolds, Lovett, McVeigh, McPhee, Cole are all pretty consistent target hitters. nash reminds me of Lindsay Gilbee. I wonder if he will come on like he has. you've got to play him to find out. If we take a player such as swallow he also hits targets. It is true we are not giving away players to obtain Campo but we are giving away salary cap space and commiting ourselves to at least a two year contract. always dicey when a player is 30 and not physically so strong- see mercuri.
Nash, dyson, Rioli, lovett murray, Monfries, Reynolds, Lovett, McVeigh, McPhee, Cole are all pretty consistent target hitters. nash reminds me of Lindsay Gilbee. I wonder if he will come on like he has. you've got to play him to find out. If we take a player such as swallow he also hits targets. It is true we are not giving away players to obtain Campo but we are giving away salary cap space and commiting ourselves to at least a two year contract. always dicey when a player is 30 and not physically so strong- see mercuri.
Nash - won't play much, isn't there yet.
Dyson - won't play every week and doesn't spend 120 mins on the ground
Rioli - good skills, injury prone
Lovett Murray - good skills, plays in back line most of the time
Monfries - won't play every week, isn't there yet
McVeigh - good skills, need more
McPhee - ok skills still, plays in back line
Cole - needs to prove himself, plays in back line
Bottom line is we need more foot skills to help out in midfield, so we can score more points, thought it would be pretty easy to understand. We spend all our cap because we wanna win games and get our young players finals experience as soon as possible. We wont win games or improve our youngsters if 1) Stanton is tagged every week, 2) There is no experience our depth to help guide them through and 3) we don't imrpove our inside 50 disposal
Longy413
9 Nov 2005, 11:18
Lovett-Murray doesn't have very good foot skills.
And this isn't purely about foot skills.
It's about adding to a weakness (midfield depth) and drafting the best available player with each and every pick. There is no doubt in my mind as much as I dredded the thought of seeing him in an Essendon jumper, that Campo fits that bill.
Campo was tagged week in, week out this season and averaged upwards of 20 disposals a game. Add that to our side, plus his abilty to be a quality finisher and the fact that he's going to take attention away from our other midfielders. He's costing us nothing in that we don't have to trade for him. I can't see the negatives other than we will be drafting 8 kids instead of 9, which isn't really a negative for mine.
Cole cant hit a target to save his life.
douggie the don
10 Nov 2005, 03:27
No doubt campo's delivery to Lloydy and the other forwards will be a bonus...
Mercuri was superb at hitting forward targets outta the midfield....
maybe that's Sheedy's rationale?????...
but seriously, i believe it is crutial that the midfielder we will probably get at 7 has to have good foot skills.....
JJ, MJ, Stanton are good but lack the classy finish.
If Rioli is fit like he was in 2000 it would be somewhat problem solved...
Lloyd said last year that Dyson is his most preffered player to deliver it inside 50....
No doubt campo's delivery to Lloydy and the other forwards will be a bonus...
Mercuri was superb at hitting forward targets outta the midfield....
maybe that's Sheedy's rationale?????...
but seriously, i believe it is crutial that the midfielder we will probably get at 7 has to have good foot skills.....
JJ, MJ, Stanton are good but lack the classy finish.
If Rioli is fit like he was in 2000 it would be somewhat problem solved...
Lloyd said last year that Dyson is his most preffered player to deliver it inside 50....
Rioli wasn't a key player in 2000....he hit his straps in the years after that.
I think Dyson and to a lesser extent Winderlich are the future of Essendon in terms of good ball users. Stanton is improving also and I can see him filling that role. We do need to draft another quick, skillful player in the next two years of drafts though.
boncer34
10 Nov 2005, 14:22
Think a better question in this case would be, If Campo is finished why did Carlton want him to stay?
bombers boy
22 Nov 2005, 23:42
if most essendon fans are like me not many of us really ever liked campo but look his gonna be good for our young kids and like most people have said they cant be geting tagged at 20 and his not costing anything besides salary cap money we got anyway so whys anyone complaning and we need a reciever to be there when the tough nuts like the johno's and pev get it out to him just give him a chance remember COST US NOTHING
Lovett-Murray doesn't have very good foot skills.
And this isn't purely about foot skills.
It's about adding to a weakness (midfield depth) and drafting the best available player with each and every pick. There is no doubt in my mind as much as I dredded the thought of seeing him in an Essendon jumper, that Campo fits that bill.
Campo was tagged week in, week out this season and averaged upwards of 20 disposals a game. Add that to our side, plus his abilty to be a quality finisher and the fact that he's going to take attention away from our other midfielders. He's costing us nothing in that we don't have to trade for him. I can't see the negatives other than we will be drafting 8 kids instead of 9, which isn't really a negative for mine.
Of these 20 average possies per game, it must be remembered that 8+ of them come from him kicking to himself when kicking out in the backline.
Of these 20 average possies per game, it must be remembered that 8+ of them come from him kicking to himself when kicking out in the backline.
everyone is coming up with stupid reasons to bag him, when everyone should realise he will be a good addition and learn to accept him
Longy413
23 Nov 2005, 09:21
Of these 20 average possies per game, it must be remembered that 8+ of them come from him kicking to himself when kicking out in the backline.
And we don't need players who try to generate run?
Viking Wizard Eyes
23 Nov 2005, 10:54
And we don't need players who try to generate run?
Exactly, last year we missed our best rebounding defender for a over a third of the season. And a guy who's probably our second best, in Rama, missed the entire year. We were basically relying on Fletch and NLM for any run, and to be honest, we really missed someone of Campo's type.
Attacking defenders are of far better value than defensive defenders, in my opinion.
Longy, do you know if those kicks Toasta is talking about even count on the stats sheet?
Longy413
23 Nov 2005, 10:59
Longy, do you know if those kicks Toasta is talking about even count on the stats sheet?
Kick in's don't.
But if you kick to yourself and play on, the second kick counts as a stat.
everyone is coming up with stupid reasons to bag him, when everyone should realise he will be a good addition and learn to accept him
I'm not trying to bag him, I am looking forward to Campo joining us, more so than most by the sounds of things. And god knows we do need run out of the back line.
All im saying is that the average possie statistic can be misleading in campos case.
Bombers 2003
23 Nov 2005, 12:22
Glen Bowyer, Daniel Harford, Ricky Mott, Heath Scotland, David Clark, Jordon Bannister?
And some pearlers from recent years: Micky Maguane, Michael Mansfield, Steven O'Reilly
Dont forget Glen Manton!
Viking Wizard Eyes
23 Nov 2005, 13:35
Kick in's don't.
But if you kick to yourself and play on, the second kick counts as a stat.
Cheers
Just another thing on Campo, does anyone else concur that (nearly) everytime we play Carlton, he always seems to kick a flukey goal from outside 50 on the boundary or similar - there's nothing like a bit of momentum to run with.
KissStephanie
29 Nov 2005, 15:12
Allan, murphy and now campo...i really dont understand, its not like you have the best list in the comp and only need top up players..i think the club is scared of sheedy and his time is up but how can you tell the coach of 1 million years...the big rebuild and move forward won't happen until there is a new coach, it has to come sometime I think that Collingwood is favourite to pick up Camporeale, and since Collingwood still have heaps left from the 2002-03 Grand Final's and had the youngest playing list at the time too, then they can afford to grab him, and the Collingwood list just needs a player to top it up. Woewodin at age 29 out, and Camporeale at age 30 in, is almost a straight swap for age, but a much better player.
TheGeneral
29 Nov 2005, 15:16
Dont forget Glen Manton!
Yes? Premiership player and a good goal kicker.
Stargazer
1 Dec 2005, 12:40
Its not like Essendon are trading first round picks for older players. Essendon have delisted, traded and retired players that have all been relatively experienced in terms of age. These guys need to be replaced. Its no point having 10 18 year olds in the side. We need a blend of ages.
using the four picks in the draft that is still adding 4 young players to the side (a lot of clubs aren't even adding that many eg dockers have room for 3, like wise with the Eagles).
Adding Campo and Heff will just fill a void (at least in age) made through the delisting of guys like Bullen, Alvey and Haynes. We will still be picking up the same number of young guys as other clubs and possibly more.
Its not like Essendon will be robbing peter to pay Paul, it is a mix of players, some to fill voids, others to develop for the future. When you lose 8 players (and possibly more), you can't replace them all with 18 year olds.
Good post. Spot on. :thumbsu:
Bombers 2003
1 Dec 2005, 13:00
Yes? Premiership player and a good goal kicker.
The only reason u got him was because he didnt like being disiplined for his lack of commitment by Sheeds.