Gold Coast never to get an AFL team.

[Roylion]

WHERE? They would want to because they would have to increase turnover by AT LEAST $10 million if they even think about joining the big boys.

And why wouldn't they, if the club joined the AFL and had access to the greater revenue streams provided by the AFL, as well as the sponsorship that would become available because the club is now the national stage instead of just the local QAFL. It happened to Port Adelaide.

Only because Brisbane played.

You mean a local Queensland team was involved? Southport are a local team as well.

[Helix]

All to the RL team. QLD will always be a league state. Look at the media coverage, look at the popularity of the sport at both junior and schoolboy level. That's what indicates real strength and frankly it's still a fair way behind.


And I think you are wrong. I am not talking about next year, I am talking about 2010-2015 (as are most people in favour of a Southport side).


Only because Brisbane played. Watch next year when Hawthorn play Melbourne so we can get true answers and read the press for the inevitable ticket giveaways.


So if Southport are playing an AFL game the crowd won't show up? How the hell does a Hawthorn/Melbourne give an indication of anything other than guage how many Hawthorn and Melbourne fans are on the coast? Any chance either team will move here? What is the motivation to flock to see this battle of Victorian heavyweights? Now that is idiotic. At least my tongue is in my cheek when i say dumb things.

[ChrisFooty]

bollocks.

agree.....all of nsw, act and qld is RL heartland with minimal AFL support

[Jimthegreat]

The Gold Coast Chargers worked very well.



The Bears struggled on the Gold Coast certainly and eventually moved to Brisbane, as they were supposed to do back in 1987-88.



Demographics of the Gold Coast and the profile and stature of Australian Rules Football in Queensland has changed remarkably since 1991, when the Bears moved to Brisbane. It's now 14-15 years since that move was made.



How on earth then does the Southport Sharks Football Club based on the Gold Coast make a $3 million profit in a year, playing in the QAFL?



No, it won't. The Southport Sharks have the infrastructure already in place ready to enter the AFL. That is a very different situation to the one the Brisbane Bears faced, when they were started from scratch. The bears venture was an ill-planned, ill thoughout venture in completely hostile territory. The situation of the Southport Sharks is vastly different.



Well of course they're generating most of the support...they're the only AFL side.



From the Gold Coast and further south. Also if a relocated side from Melbourne, about 5-6,000 paid up members there. Brisbane have that number, the Swans have close to 7,000 Victorian based members...it's reasonable to assume that a relocated side woud gain roughly the same numbers.



Disagree.



Yep. If I hadn't been supporting the team I currently support for very long, why wouldn't I change to support a local team. There are literally thousands of people that actively support the Brisbane Lions when their team isn't playing at the Gabba. Even the Lions acknowledge that.



Not according to the Southport Sharks. They're ready, willing and able to join te AFL now.



You'd better contact the Southporrt Sharks with your views, because it seems they don't share your opinion.I thought the Bears moved to the Gabba in 1996. When they start playing with the big boys, paying real salaries, with huge financial turnrovers involved with running a footy club at AFL level and doing it with a small supporter base it will be alot different. You won't suddenly get tens of thousands changing their allegances all of a sudden, no matter what you think. Membership, even with a re-located side, won't be that high given it's RL territory and those that follow the AFL passionately are already probably Lions members.

To have two Qld clubs so close doesn't help as it doesn't give anyone any reason to change from the Lions as it's all basically the same area. It's not that long a drive to Brisbane. If it were Townsville or Cairns for example then it would be alot different given the size of Qld. It would then basically be a whole new location, another area altogther.

Despite the Lions crowds Qld are not really AFL orientated otherwise TV ratings would be much higher. Say what you like but the Gold Coast hasn't had one successful team play there (and I'm not talking win/loss ratio) and you have to ask why. The Bears were a basket case at Carrara, you only have to hear Robert Walls talk about his time there to know that. It was pretty sad. Even with a lack of infrastructure, the bottom line is there just wasn't the support on the Gold Coast for and AFL club. The changed straight away at the Gabba, suddenly crowds, membership, sponsorship etc....and even then the Lions struggled to make a profit. It's not the place to be putting in new clubs and they be relying alot on the AFL for help.

[The Dice Man]

agree.....all of nsw, act and qld is RL heartland with minimal AFL support


Ever heard of Wagga Wagga, ever heard of Cairns, ever heard of The Gold Coast?

Mate, you're an absoulte flog.


Im putting my money on that you grew up in Dubbo.

[Jimthegreat]

agree.....all of nsw, act and qld is RL heartland with minimal AFL supportAFL created a damn good market share in those two states but not enough for a second team in either state.

[Helix]

It is clear that all the negative posting regarding Southport entering the AFL is coming from supporters of financially struggling clubs. I think you have to acknowledge that your feelings are more about the fear of losing your own club, rather than the emergence of a Southport based AFL club. And rightly so. I would be worried too.

[Helix]

I thought the Bears moved to the Gabba in 1996. When they start playing with the big boys, paying real salaries, with huge financial turnrovers involved with running a footy club at AFL level and doing it with a small supporter base it will be alot different. You won't suddenly get tens of thousands changing their allegances all of a sudden, no matter what you think. Membership, even with a re-located side, won't be that high given it's RL territory and those that follow the AFL passionately are already probably Lions members.

Nope. Played first game in 1991 and moved permanently in 1993.

http://lions.com.au/default.asp?pg=lions&spg=gabba

[ChrisFooty]

Ever heard of Wagga Wagga, ever heard of Cairns, ever heard of The Gold Coast?

Mate, you're an absoulte flog.



Im putting my money on that you grew up in Dubbo.


nope

[stmookeyj]

For example since 1999 there have been a number of media reports, about a second Queensland licence have appeared. Here's a short selection...

[i]Coast tipped for top By Ron McDonald

Sunday, February 07, 1999

and

[i]Southport hold $5m carrot for AFL spot By Warwick Hadfield

Monday, February 14, 2000


But neither of those have been since Brisbane won premierships, and certainly nothing I have seen in The Courier Mail since 2002.

You mean a local Queensland team was involved? Southport are a local team as well.

Brisbane representative of Queensland?????? Dream on.

[Helix]

i live near wagga.......
We will speak slowly then.

[Helix]

But neither of those have been since Brisbane won premierships, and certainly nothing I have seen in The Courier Mail since 2002.
That might work both ways though. It raises awareness of AFL in the area not previously supporting AFL, then with a local team, attracts many new followers.

[stmookeyj]

That might work both ways though. It raises awareness of AFL in the area not previously supporting AFL, then with a local team, attracts many new followers.

Has it really?

[ChrisFooty]

We will speak slowly then.

it hurts when i say RL dominate AFL in QLD and the AFL make up 20/80 compared with league

look i love AFL...juststating the facts of life

[Helix]

it hurts when i say RL dominate AFL in QLD and the AFL make up 20/80 compared with league

look i love AFL...juststating the facts of life
There are no facts in what you say, you are making up numbers on your feeling of the situation.

[The Dice Man]

i live near wagga.......


Then you have even more irrepareable brain damage than I could ever imagined.

Now before you reply, remember it's you who said that 'all of nsw, act and qld is RL heartland'.

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

But neither of those have been since Brisbane won premierships, and certainly nothing I have seen in The Courier Mail since 2002.



Brisbane representative of Queensland?????? Dream on.

Yes, Brisbane is the Capital of Queensland

[Helix]

Has it really?
I mean it might, not that it has. Just saying that it is difficult to guage the effect of the premierships, might be helpfull to a Gold Coast club, might not be. Hard to tell though.

[The Dice Man]

it hurts when i say RL dominate AFL in QLD and the AFL make up 20/80 compared with league

look i love AFL...juststating the facts of life


You got any proof to back up ths 20/80 'fact' you're sprouting?


Links??

[HorseHead]

You got any proof to back up ths 20/80 'fact' you're sprouting?


Links??You mean ChrisFooty's say-so isn't enough for you?

[stmookeyj]

I'm dissapointed with the AFL mind you. They aren't giving Southport a leg to stand on. There's nothing more Southport can do at this stage. They're making money, dominating the QAFL, getting sponsers, ect... What else do they have to do?


1 Flag in 5 years is not domination.

[ChrisFooty]

If we enter the southport into the competitions......i can't see where the revenue stream will come from and how they can attaact people to the ground.

Ecspeally if a televised game on TV shows an empty Cararra staduim with a football match going on !

[The Dice Man]

You mean ChrisFooty's say-so isn't enough for you?


:D :thumbsu:

[Helix]

1 Flag in 5 years is not domination.
QAFL/QSFL/AFL Queensland Grand Final Appearances 1983 to 2005

Club Premiers Runners Up

Southport 11 7
Morningside 5 6
Mt Gravatt 1 3
Coorparoo 1 2
North Brisbane/Northern Eagles 1 2
Windsor-Zillmere 1 2
Brisbane Lions 1 0
West Brisbane 1 0
Kedron-Grange 0 1
Mayne 0 1

Dunno bout the rest of you, but it looks like domination to me.

[stmookeyj]

QAFL/QSFL/AFL Queensland Grand Final Appearances 1983 to 2005

Club Premiers Runners Up

Southport 11 7
Morningside 5 6
Mt Gravatt 1 3
Coorparoo 1 2
North Brisbane/Northern Eagles 1 2
Windsor-Zillmere 1 2
Brisbane Lions 1 0
West Brisbane 1 0
Kedron-Grange 0 1
Mayne 0 1

Dunno bout the rest of you, but it looks like domination to me.

That's like saying Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon dominate the AFL, when in the same period they have won 7 flags in that period. FLAWED ARGUMENT....

And another thing, after a google search, I only found 1 article that even raises the suggestion of AFL entry. That does not convince me.

[Helix]

That's like saying Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon dominate the AFL, when in the same period they have won 7 flags in that period. FLAWED ARGUMENT....
No, it is not like that at all. Southport have won 11, been runner up in 7. That is 18 Grand final appearances in 22 years. That is just a bit more impressive as far as dominating a competition goes. You compare that to three clubs combined with 4 less wins? Yeah... Ok...

[Roylion]

I thought the Bears moved to the Gabba in 1996.

Nup.

When they start playing with the big boys, paying real salaries, with huge financial turnrovers involved with running a footy club at AFL level and doing it with a small supporter base it will be alot different.

The Southport Sharks don't agree. They beleive they have the support, the sponsorship and the facilities to compete in the AFL now.

You won't suddenly get tens of thousands changing their allegances all of a sudden, no matter what you think.

And what makes you correct.


Membership, even with a re-located side, won't be that high given it's RL territory and those that follow the AFL passionately are already probably Lions members.

Southport is aiming for 100,000 members by the time they enter the AFL. Even if they convert 10% of those numbers to become football club members in their first year and get 6-7,000 Victorian members from any club relocated to Melbourne, 16-17,000 members in their first year is quite healtyh. The Bears had 3,449 members in their first year and 7,607 members in their second year.

To have two Qld clubs so close doesn't help as it doesn't give anyone any reason to change from the Lions as it's all basically the same area. It's not that long a drive to Brisbane.

There will be some who wil change out of loyalty to their local area and already see a rivalry with Brisbane. There will be some who will be members of both clubs so they can see AFL every week. There will be some who are already members of Southport and will just upgrade to football club membership. I surprised under your reasoning Geelong for example have any members at all. After all there are 9 other Melbourne clubs just up the road.

If it were Townsville or Cairns for example then it would be alot different given the size of Qld. It would then basically be a whole new location, another area altogther.

But a much smaller population.

Despite the Lions crowds Qld are not really AFL orientated otherwise TV ratings would be much higher.

And how do they compare with Rugby League crowds. And what happens if Queensland viewers get a better TV deal out of the next TV budding rights.

Say what you like but the Gold Coast hasn't had one successful team play there (and I'm not talking win/loss ratio) and you have to ask why.

Once again you've completely ignored The Gold Coast Chargers. They were financially successful.

The Bears were a basket case at Carrara, you only have to hear Robert Walls talk about his time there to know that. It was pretty sad. Even with a lack of infrastructure, the bottom line is there just wasn't the support on the Gold Coast for and AFL club.

There is now.

The changed straight away at the Gabba, suddenly crowds, membership, sponsorship etc....and even then the Lions struggled to make a profit.

I don't think you have much idea of what you're talking about. They made a profit on the Gold Coast in their first year of being a member based club.

The move to the Gabba for the beginning of 1993 didn''t make much difference at all initially. Crowds moved up slightly, but it was only in 1996 (after they made the finals fir the first time in 1995), that they broke the average crowd attendance that was set on the Gold Coast in 1988. Profits were made in 1992, 1994, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005. The biggest loss the club has ever made has been in 2001 when they made a loss of 845,390.

Year Membership Crowd Profit/Loss
1987 3,449 8,965 N/A
1988 7,607 12,425 N/A
1989 7,176 10,944 N/A
1990 5,630 8,887 N/A
1991 5,696 8,012 N/A
----becomes member based club ----
1992 5,401 6,499 +$524,147
----moves to Gabba ------
1993 5,750 11,097 -$252,788
1994 6,158 12,437 +$90,141
1995 6,893 10,318 -$108,964
1996 10,267 18,672 +$1,273,360

It's not the place to be putting in new clubs and they be relying alot on the AFL for help.

I disagree. It is the prime place to put any new club. As I have said repeatedly the Southport Sharks are ready, willing and able to join the AFL now.

[littleduck]

The Southport Sharks don't agree. They beleive they have the support, the sponsorship and the facilities to compete in the AFL now. but they're in the business of over-stating their bid...

[Jimthegreat]

Nup.



The Southport Sharks don't agree. They beleive they have the support, the sponsorship and the facilities to compete in the AFL now.



And what makes you correct.




Southport is aiming for 100,000 members by the time they enter the AFL. Even if they convert 10% of those numbers to become football club members in their first year and get 6-7,000 Victorian members from any club relocated to Melbourne, 16-17,000 members in their first year is quite healtyh. The Bears had 3,449 members in their first year and 7,607 members in their second year.



There will be some who wil change out of loyalty to their local area and already see a rivalry with Brisbane. There will be some who will be members of both clubs so they can see AFL every week. There will be some who are already members of Southport and will just upgrade to football club membership. I surprised under your reasoning Geelong for example have any members at all. After all there are 9 other Melbourne clubs just up the road.



But a much smaller population.



And how do they compare with Rugby League crowds. And what happens if Queensland viewers get a better TV deal out of the next TV budding rights.



Once again you've completely ignored The Gold Coast Chargers. They were financially successful.



There is now.



I don't think you have much idea of what you're talking about. They made a profit on the Gold Coast in their first year of being a member based club.

The move to the Gabba for the beginning of 1993 didn''t make much difference at all initially. Crowds moved up slightly, but it was only in 1996 (after they made the finals fir the first time in 1995), that they broke the average crowd attendance that was set on the Gold Coast in 1988. Profits were made in 1992, 1994, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005. The biggest loss the club has ever made has been in 2001 when they made a loss of 845,390.

Year Membership Crowd Profit/Loss
1987 3,449 8,965 N/A
1988 7,607 12,425 N/A
1989 7,176 10,944 N/A
1990 5,630 8,887 N/A
1991 5,696 8,012 N/A
----becomes member based club ----
1992 5,401 6,499 +$524,147
----moves to Gabba ------
1993 5,750 11,097 -$252,788
1994 6,158 12,437 +$90,141
1995 6,893 10,318 -$108,964
1996 10,267 18,672 +$1,273,360



I disagree. It is the prime place to put any new club. As I have said repeatedly the Southport Sharks are ready, willing and able to join the AFL now.I kept thinking for some reason the Bears moved in 1996 but it was 1993. I know in 1995 there were huge grandstand renovations there affecting the crowds.

I hope you can get a successful team there, that'd be great but history and location says otherwise, especially with a thriving triple premiership club already in SE Qld. Despite the spin you put on it I still don't see where the supporters and members are going to come from. You're in territory foreign for AFL. Maybe if it was the first team in Qld it'd be a chance but not as a second team. Also the name "Brisbane" itself make it hard to take supporters away from to a new team as being the capital it likes supporting you're whole state. If you have a have a 2nd team in Qld it would need to be in the north, an entirely different location well away from Brisbane where they can establish their own identity. If we were talking AFL territory then that would be entirely diferent situation. Spin doctoring and rationalisation is not going to get you a successful team. Financing an AFL club will be so much different in Qld.


>>>>>>> [/QUOTE] "And what makes you correct".

People get entrenched with their footy teams to the point of "falling in love" with them. If they support a club with great passion and fanaticism they are NOT going to change. You know that tradition as well as I do. You don't have to be smart to work that out. Are you going to change your team?!!! Are Brisbane supporters going to change, are Victorians who have migrated there and passionately support their own team going to change, not a hope in hell, especially the latter ones. It's only the not so strong supporters of AFL who are going to change in the most part and that's not really the one's you're chasing. Because it's RL teritory it won't be like WA, SA who already had a strong core of passionate South/East Freo or Port Adelaide supporters in their own leagues to carry over to the AFL. Qld just doesn't have that same AFL tradition for that carryover. for example, when I lived in Sydney for a couple of years I still supported Carlton with great passion and Victoria in SOO and in the cricket. I wasn't changing to Sydney. As much as I like the Swans no way it was going to happen. On the other hand, when I moved back to Melbourne I had no hesitation changing my RL team from the Roosters to the Melbourne Storm when the Storm became a team in 1998 because I had no great passion for RL so it didn't matter as much to me. I don't necessarily speak for the rest of the country but I think it's a good example.

[Roylion]

I kept thinking for some reason the Bears moved in 1996 but it was 1993. I know in 1995 there were huge grandstand renovations there affecting the crowds.

I hope you can get a successful team there, that'd be great but history and location says otherwise, especially with a thriving triple premiership club already in SE Qld. Despite the spin you put on it I still don't see where the supporters and members are going to come from.

Why would I be putting spin on it? I'm a Brisbane Lions supporter and member. I'd prefer that there wasn't another team in SE Qld, as it's going to impact on my club. However it's going to happen.


You're in territory foreign for AFL. Maybe if it was the first team in Qld it'd be a chance but not as a second team. Also the name "Brisbane" itself make it hard to take supporters away from to a new team as being the capital it likes supporting you're whole state. If you have a have a 2nd team in Qld it would need to be in the north, an entirely different location well away from Brisbane where they can establish their own identity. If we were talking AFL territory then that would be entirely diferent situation. Spin doctoring and rationalisation is not going to get you a successful team. Financing an AFL club will be so much different in Qld.

As I said, you'd better contact the Southport Sharks with your concerns. They don't share your opinion. And somehow I think they'd be in more of a position to know and understand the situation there.

People get entrenched with their footy teams to the point of "falling in love" with them. If they support a club with great passion and fanaticism they are NOT going to change.

And if they don't? Many current Brisbane Lions supporters have only come to the game in the last five or so years. I don't think it's ging to be a huge wrench if a local Gold Coast team starts up and they change. It seems quite a few Adelaide and West Coast supporters found the move to Port Adelaide and Fremantle far from gut-wrenching.

You know that tradition as well as I do. You don't have to be smart to work that out. Are you going to change your team?!!!

Well I've changed once already. Fitzroy ---> Brisbane Lions. And I've supported Fitzroy all my loife and am the third generation of my family to do so. And please don't give me the guff about Fitzroy no longer existing. They still do. www.fitzroyfc.com.au

Are Brisbane supporters going to change, are Victorians who have migrated there and passionately support their own team going to change, not a hope in hell, especially the latter ones.

Passionately? Some will...others won't. As I said there are many Brisbane Lions supporters are are full paid up members of the Lions, yet support Victorian teams and actively support them when they play in Queensland. Every other week they support the Lions. The same will happen to Southport.

Qld just doesn't have that same AFL tradition for that carryover. for example, when I lived in Sydney for a couple of years I still supported Carlton with great passion and Victoria in SOO and in the cricket. I wasn't changing to Sydney.

Good for you. The reality is..is that many people can and do.


As much as I like the Swans no way it was going to happen. On the other hand, when I moved back to Melbourne I had no hesitation changing my RL team from the Roosters to the Melbourne Storm when the Storm became a team in 1998 because I had no great passion for RL so it didn't matter as much to me. I don't necessarily speak for the rest of the country but I think it's a good example.

Why thank you. You've just explained exactly why many Queenslanders will very happily support the Southport Sharks, especially if thye want to attend a few AFL matches, but perhaps don't feel as passionate about AFL as rugby league. As I said many Brisbane Lions members and supporters in fact support other teams, but join up because they want to see AFL on a regular or semi-regular basis.

[Roylion]

but they're in the business of over-stating their bid...

Is that right?

Well I look forward to reading how the Southport Sharks have overstated their bid.

[Jimthegreat]

Why would I be putting spin on it? I'm a Brisbane Lions supporter and member. I'd prefer that there wasn't another team in SE Qld, as it's going to impact on my club. However it's going to happen.




As I said, you'd better contact the Southport Sharks with your concerns. They don't share your opinion. And somehow I think they'd be in more of a position to know and understand the situation there.



And if they don't? Many current Brisbane Lions supporters have only come to the game in the last five or so years. I don't think it's ging to be a huge wrench if a local Gold Coast team starts up and they change. It seems quite a few Adelaide and West Coast supporters found the move to Port Adelaide and Fremantle far from gut-wrenching.



Well I've changed once already. Fitzroy ---> Brisbane Lions. And I've supported Fitzroy all my loife and am the third generation of my family to do so. And please don't give me the guff about Fitzroy no longer existing. They still do. www.fitzroyfc.com.au



Passionately? Some will...others won't. As I said there are many Brisbane Lions supporters are are full paid up members of the Lions, yet support Victorian teams and actively support them when they play in Queensland. Every other week they support the Lions. The same will happen to Southport.



Good for you. The reality is..is that many people can and do.




Why thank you. You've just explained exactly why many Queenslanders will very happily support the Southport Sharks, especially if thye want to attend a few AFL matches, but perhaps don't feel as passionate about AFL as rugby league. As I said many Brisbane Lions members and supporters in fact support other teams, but join up because they want to see AFL on a regular or semi-regular basis.I don't a rats clacker if the Sharks share my opinion or not. They're not the first organisation to put on a positive spin and won't the the last to struggle. I won't say fail because the AFL would prop them up for ages. History's a better guide and Gold Coast has a bad one.

If that last statement is an indication as why Qld will happily support a new team, you are scraping the bottom of the barrel for reasons. If you can't get passionate supporters, you won't get great membership in that location. Those type of supporters don't usually become members. It's just not an AFL state despite the Lions success. Just not enough support for 2 teams so close in location in Qld.

Being an ardent Fitzroy/ Brisbane supporter, will you change, will you buy a membership despite being a Lions member? Even "outside" members (other team supporters) who are Lions members as you say are not going to become members of yet another club. How many teams can one support, especially in RL territory. You may get a some that will change and others that'll become members anyway but that's not going to get you 25-30,000 members you'll need to be viable. If you think they'll be enough support for a new team in SE Qld, on top of the Lions, you're dreaming, especially in rugby territory. That's the tough bit finding support in Rugby territory. Don't give me any story that SE Qld is predominately AFL because it's not. That where you problem is before you start, where do the supporters come from for a second team.

[Rob]

1 Flag in 5 years is not domination.

If Helix is right, 18 grand finals in 22 years is an astonishing achievement. I'd be surprised if any club in any senior league in the country could match that in recent times, let alone in a state league.

[Lions43]

Don't give a rat's where I live I know the history of teams of all descriptions in that area, especially in RL heartland. None have worked. The Bears were an absolute failure, and that was only 10 years ago. What could have changed in that short a time? It was the greatest failure imaginable. It'd be the same for any other team. Probably more support in Qld now given the Lions success but it's not an AFL state. You're in Rugby territory. You can provide all the rationalisation you like but the result will still be the same. I know we'd all love teams there but some need to get a grip on reality. You have Brisbane close by, which is generating most of the support, quite passionate support at that. Means though there would be very little left for another team. I don't see where the supporter base is going to come from. May be different if it were Nth Qld.
Even allowing for the huge filip the Lions have given Qld, general support for the AFL is still not great when taken in an over-all context and I think deep down you all know that. Any thought otherwise is pure delusion.

Now the big question.....would any of you change the team you support? That's important if you want to generate support for a new team. Problem is that if you are staunch AFL fans though that is very unlikely. That'll make it hard getting support for a new team in RL territory. It if was more of an "AFL state" then I'd say go for it but that's way into the future. AFL has a good market share in Qld but it's certainly not ready for a secnd team, especially one so close to Brisbane. I'd try Nth Qld first, somewhere well away from Brisbane with a better possibility of generating it's own support. As much as I'd like to see it for the sake of you guys sadly success doesn't grow out of optimism alone.

You're living in the past mate. Lots of things fail in life, in sport, in business etc because the timing wasn't right. The simple facts are that 20,000 + new residents pour into the Gold Coast every year (that is a fact you can read in several different places) and the Gold Coast is the fastest growing City in Australia. I agree that if a team were to be put here right now it would struggle but in 10 years time there will be another 200,000 people on the Gold Coast, on top of the 200,000 that have come here in the last 10 years. Many of those people are AFL supporters who will love having a local team to follow.

Just watch how successful the NRL franchise becomes within 5 years and you will realise an AFL team will be extremely viable on the Gold Coast in 2015. Your constant reminders of the events of 1990 have no correlation with what is happening in this City now and what will continue to happen in the years ahead. I just pray the State Government and the Gold Coast Council have the collective wisdom to manage the infrastructure problems that are already starting to strangle the City.

[littleduck]

Is that right?

Well I look forward to reading how the Southport Sharks have overstated their bid.I'm just pointing out that all bids for inclusion to any comp generally involve positively spinning the case for admission...

Example #1 being some bids for inclusion in the A-League over-stating their short-term financial projections... Melb Victory being a good example I think?

[Funkalicous]

It is clear that all the negative posting regarding Southport entering the AFL is coming from supporters of financially struggling clubs. I think you have to acknowledge that your feelings are more about the fear of losing your own club, rather than the emergence of a Southport based AFL club. And rightly so. I would be worried too.

Spot on. Some of these posters absolutely reek of desperation. I've yet to read a factual arguement from one of them.

And Jimthegreat, times change buddy. Why don't you try arguing something that's relevant to 2005.

[Jimthegreat]

Spot on. Some of these posters absolutely reek of desperation. I've yet to read a factual arguement from one of them.

And Jimthegreat, times change buddy. Why don't you try arguing something that's relevant to 2005.What the hell is there to be desperate about? If there's a team there great but if there is any desperation, or I'll call it over-optimism, it's from you're side. Times do change, but not that quickl in an AFL "foreign" state. Support is not there for 2 SE Qld teams.TV ratings tell you that. Anything else is pure optimism. It is 2005 and it's still a Rugby state. I don't think the difficulties are that hard to work out.

I hope you don't change teams!!!! lol

[ChrisFooty]

don't they average like 60,000 for every AFL match thats non brisbane lions.

thats weak as bikkies

[Rob]

don't they average like 60,000 for every AFL match thats non brisbane lions.

thats weak as bikkies

Another made up figure I gather?

[ChrisFooty]

Another made up figure I gather?

Care to give me a link with all the ratings of AFL matches shown in prime time or near prime time please in season 2005?

someone did mention 66,000 for an AFL semi final on here.....yep thats parammata eel who said that.

[Rob]

Care to give me a link with all the ratings of AFL matches shown in prime time or near prime time please in season 2005?


Shouldn't you be providing that? You're the one who made the claim. But given you're more than likely just a rugby troll anyway, I wouldn't expect a lack of a source to stop you.


someone did mention 66,000 for an AFL semi final on here.....yep thats parammata eel who said that.

Big difference between that and 'averaging 60,000 for every match', particularly given the limited numbers that have been published are generally much much better than 60k. i.e. Anzac Day game 110,000, all finals other than the 2 that were up against the Ashes were over 100,000.

[ParraEelsNRL]

Care to give me a link with all the ratings of AFL matches shown in prime time or near prime time please in season 2005?

someone did mention 66,000 for an AFL semi final on here.....yep thats parammata eel who said that.


Yeah i wrote that here before.

Got this from LU.

AFL ratings in Sydney and Brisbane for week 2 semi finals.

Crows vs Port
Sydney - 94,000
Brisbane - 64,000

Sydney v Geelong
Sydney - 210,000
Brisbane 66,000

Source - The Australian page 16 of the Media section 15/09/2005.

............................................................ ...........................................

[ChrisFooty]

Yeah i wrote that here before.

Got this from LU.

AFL ratings in Sydney and Brisbane for week 2 semi finals.

Crows vs Port
Sydney - 94,000
Brisbane - 64,000

Sydney v Geelong
Sydney - 210,000
Brisbane 66,000

Source - The Australian page 16 of the Media section 15/09/2005.

............................................................ ...........................................

I'm not a rugby troll.......hence why i barrack for st.kilda. I'm just stating that these are poor ratings in sydney and Brisbane. That 94,000 is woeful for a semi final and i don't know why channel 10 decided to take such a big ratings hit. I mean a movie would rate higher than those figures. At least a movie you get families who are not into sport tuning in and they have an alternative.
That sydney rating is greulling bad......and i'm an AFL supporter true and first.

You TRying to tell me if a semi final rates poorly, doesn't mean the whole TV rating averages are woeful for the other games shown live or near live in NSW and QLD ?

These ratings here suggest we are at least 10 years away from a second QLD team and a second AFL team in NSW will be on the agenda in the year 2030.

[ParraEelsNRL]

I'm not a rugby troll.......hence why i barrack for st.kilda. I'm just stating that these are poor ratings in sydney and Brisbane. That 94,000 is woeful for a semi final and i don't know why channel 10 decided to take such a big ratings hit. I mean a movie would rate higher than those figures. At least a movie you get families who are not into sport tuning in and they have an alternative.
That sydney rating is greulling bad......and i'm an AFL supporter true and first.

You TRying to tell me if a semi final rates poorly, doesn't mean the whole TV rating averages are woeful for the other games shown live or near live in NSW and QLD ?

These ratings here suggest we are at least 10 years away from a second QLD team and a second AFL team in NSW will be on the agenda in the year 2030.

Mate i think your're posting to the wrong guy, i put the figures in for you ;)

I think you ment Rob. :p

no worries.

[ChrisFooty]

I know parammata......i was showing the figures in my argument.
I was directing at Rob and the simple fact, as much as i would like a second QLD team in the AFL, it would fold in a couple of years.

[Rob]

I'm not a rugby troll.......hence why i barrack for st.kilda.


So you're a rugby troll who doesn't want to be exposed as a rugby troll.


I'm just stating that these are poor ratings in sydney and Brisbane. That 94,000 is woeful for a semi final and i don't know why channel 10 decided to take such a big ratings hit. I mean a movie would rate higher than those figures. At least a movie you get families who are not into sport tuning in and they have an alternative.
That sydney rating is greulling bad......and i'm an AFL supporter true and first.

You TRying to tell me if a semi final rates poorly, doesn't mean the whole TV rating averages are woeful for the other games shown live or near live in NSW and QLD ?


Yes, because that was an extraordinary week where the Ashes were at their peak. Other weeks of AFL finals did not rate anywhere near as badly, eg. the 175,000 that watched Sydney v St Kilda the following week in Brisbane.


These ratings here suggest we are at least 10 years away from a second QLD team and a second AFL team in NSW will be on the agenda in the year 2030.

Thankfully, most people would be smart enough to realise not to base your entire opinion around one weekend. Unfortunately, you don't seem to be one of them.

[ChrisFooty]

So you're a rugby troll who doesn't want to be exposed as a rugby troll.





Yes, because that was an extraordinary week where the Ashes were at their peak. Other weeks of AFL finals did not rate anywhere near as badly, eg. the 175,000 that watched Sydney v St Kilda the following week in Brisbane.


Thankfully, most people would be smart enough to realise not to base your entire opinion around one weekend. Unfortunately, you don't seem to be one of them.

Nonsense......beleive me there will be no second team in NSW in the AFL by at least 2030....even andrew demiotriu would agree with me on that.

And whats wrong with liking NRL as well as AFL ? Both sports can co exists, one isn't going to die and fold regardless of what you think.

What don't you understand. I am a passionate st.kilda fan. I am one that follows my team every week, ragradless of ladder position for the last decade of my life. (and the saints have had a lot of failures, who cared, i still love them.)
better than all the sydney swans and west tiger bandwagon jumpers

You classifying 175,000 as good ?
sTILL NO CHANCE for second QLD team.,.....unless you want it to die like university did in 1918

[Rob]

Nonsense......beleive me there will be no second team in NSW in the AFL by at least 2030....even andrew demiotriu would agree with me on that.


Andrew Demetriou is a complete imbecile who wouldn't know his arse from his elbow.


And whats wrong with liking NRL as well as AFL ? Both sports can co exists, one isn't going to die and fold regardless of what you think.


Nothing, but most of your posts are all about bagging football in NSW and Queensland. Your 80/20 comment was utterly astounding, given there is no statistic that you could come up with (other than if you made one up) that could back that up. and there are plenty that would indicate otherwise. Compare Lions crowds to Broncos crowds for example. Junior participation numbers are going through the roof, which is showing in the number of Queenslanders drafted.


What don't you understand. I am a passionate st.kilda fan. I am one that follows my team every week, ragradless of ladder position for the last decade of my life. (and the saints have had a lot of failures, who cared, i still love them.)
better than all the sydney swans and west tiger bandwagon jumpers

You classifying 175,000 as good ?


Good? It was OK. It's about what an NRL game not involving the Broncos rates in Brisbane.


sTILL NO CHANCE for second QLD team.,.....unless you want it to die like university did in 1918

Whatever you say. Let's see how many people the 3 AFL matches on the Gold Coast attract. If all 3 of them sellout, would you be prepared to admit that you're wrong?

[D/MoN]

Nonsense......

Littled*ck masquerading as Chris-I-Have-NFI-About-Footy, anyone?

[D/MoN]

...most of your posts are all about bagging football in NSW and Queensland. Your 80/20 comment was utterly astounding, given there is no statistic that you could come up with (other than if you made one up) that could back that up. and there are plenty that would indicate otherwise.

Also up there with his "NZ have more of a chance to join the AFL than Southport". Scary thing is, he 'beleives' (sic) it. ChrisFooty, you pillow-bitin' cabbage!

[ChrisFooty]

Andrew Demetriou is a complete imbecile who wouldn't know his arse from his elbow.

Whatever you say. Let's see how many people the 3 AFL matches on the Gold Coast attract. If all 3 of them sellout, would you be prepared to admit that you're wrong?

Sorry...but andrew demitriou is the one callin the shots. If he doesn't support a new AFL team ,all you people saying southport will get in are just in dire hope.

You saying a NRL game that doesn't feature the broncos gets only 175,000 ?

If all three games at Carrarra sell out....i would admit i was correct and southport can't enter the AFL....they will die. All these Gold coast matches are with brisbane aren't they ?

Southport can never be in the AFL coz under contracts, they would have to play all their games at the Gabba.

They will be competiting aginst Brisbane lions as much as the NRL .

[fishmonger]

I think the big litmus test for AFL on the Gold Coast will be when Melbourne take on Adelaide at Cararra in Round 3 1:10pm.

Then we'll see if AFL has truly come of age in Queensland / Gold Coast.

If they get a full house for 2 neutral teams, then it would be odds on that Queensland will get a second AFL team within the next 2 years.

I know people up in the sunshine state who are already planning to go to this and other games, so I wouldn't be suprised if they get a good turnout, and the AFL, the Demons and the Crows would be pretty confident, as they don't typically gamble with crowd figures.

The AFL in particular does regional games begrudgingly. They know they have to do it for the supporters in places like Darwin, Tassie and Canberra, but even the strong crowds do tend to drag down the crowd aggregates on average and that is what the AFL prides itself on, its nearly 7 million crowd figures.

[littleduck]

Littled*ck masquerading as Chris-I-Have-NFI-About-Footy, anyone?No its not..

[paul scholes]

so are all you queenslanders changing your support from brisbane to the southport team. How can you possibly change your alliance?

[Funkalicous]

How can you possibly change your alliance?

You'll know the answer when Southport replaces your sorry excuse for a footy club. :cool:

[catters05]

Southport can never be in the AFL coz under contracts, they would have to play all their games at the Gabba.

They will be competiting aginst Brisbane lions as much as the NRL .

Contracts can be changed, look at the MCG deals. They should be able to work it out a lot easier with the Gabba.

Nothing wrong with competition, and competiting against the Lions will make a rivarly as strong as the SA and WA clubs.

[littleduck]

Contracts can be changed, look at the MCG deals. They should be able to work it out a lot easier with the Gabba.Perhaps, but Queensland politics at the moment is still reeling from the MCI and DCI and trying to find an extra $billion or so per year to fund Health... the political will for funding football stadiums is gone after the lang park upgrade, gabba upgrade, and gold coast stadium.... the electorate wont cop yet another $100 million dollar stadium in quick succession.

[ChrisFooty]

I think the big litmus test for AFL on the Gold Coast will be when Melbourne take on Adelaide at Cararra in Round 3 1:10pm.

Then we'll see if AFL has truly come of age in Queensland / Gold Coast.

If they get a full house for 2 neutral teams, then it would be odds on that Queensland will get a second AFL team within the next 2 years.
.

Now people say my posts are rubbish ? What about this ? Odds on that if two neutral teams sell out cararra, there will be a second QLD team within two years.
Once again, i love AFL, BUT, i'm just stating whats true in QLD.

No chance of a second QLD team.....no chance. Maybe in 2023

Anyways we have nothing to worry about.......the melb/adelaide game at 1.10 will get a crowd of 6000 seats sold......they might then give away 10000 free promotional tickets to the game to bump the crowd to 16k

Does cararra currently hold 18,000 ? if thats as much as it can hold, ******** weak, it needs to get bigger by at least to 30,000 to hold AFL matches.

[ChrisFooty]

[QUOTE=catters05]Contracts can be changed, look at the MCG deals. They should be able to work it out a lot easier with the Gabba.
QUOTE]

Would take a few years to sort out......

[Helix]

Now people say my posts are rubbish ? What about this ? Odds on that if two neutral teams sell out cararra, there will be a second QLD team within two years.
Once again, i love AFL, BUT, i'm just stating whats true in QLD.

No chance of a second QLD team.....no chance. Maybe in 2023

Anyways we have nothing to worry about.......the melb/adelaide game at 1.10 will get a crowd of 6000 seats sold......they might then give away 10000 free promotional tickets to the game to bump the crowd to 16k

Does cararra currently hold 18,000 ? if thats as much as it can hold, ******** weak, it needs to get bigger by at least to 30,000 to hold AFL matches.

Err, no. The stadium doesn't need to hold 48,000 to turn a profit. You have a very warped view on crowd size and profits. Actually, you will be 50% more of an idiot by 2013 (look, I can make up numbers too!).

See, it works like this. Gate takings-expenses=profit. So, if Cararra is cheap, they need to sell less seats. Understand? I refer you to Geelong's ground. 27,000 is it? Some standing room in there too isn't there?

As far as Melbourne/Adelaide selling out Cararra, I doubt it. 6000 setas might be close. All that proves is the level of of Melbourne and Adelaide supporters on the Gold Coast. In Melbourne, at the MCG, Freo v Carlton got 16076 in round 16 this year. Does this mean support for football in Melbourne can't sustain a team? No, that would be the dumbest statement ever. Maybe the MCG is a poor venue then? No, also dumb. Not too far from equating support for a Southport AFL side with the crowds at a Melbourne/Adelaide game.

[ChrisFooty]

Err, no. The stadium doesn't need to hold 48,000 to turn a profit. You have a very warped view on crowd size and profits. Actually, you will be 50% more of an idiot by 2013 (look, I can make up numbers too!).
.

I never said it needs to increase by 30,000 seats. I meant that it needs to increase to a 30,000 ground capacity. Thats 12,000 extra thats needed. Get it, 18k + the extra 12k get that 30k mark.

Southport cannot be sustained.....if it could, The AFL would jump at the chance to get an extra team in QLD. The AFL won't the game to become as much national as possible.

[Rob]

Sorry...but andrew demitriou is the one callin the shots. If he doesn't support a new AFL team ,all you people saying southport will get in are just in dire hope.


That's not true. The AFL Commission are the ones calling the shots.


You saying a NRL game that doesn't feature the broncos gets only 175,000 ?


About that on average for Channel 9 games. Obviously pay TV would probably get a lot less.


If all three games at Carrarra sell out....i would admit i was correct and southport can't enter the AFL....they will die. All these Gold coast matches are with brisbane aren't they ?


Nope.


Southport can never be in the AFL coz under contracts, they would have to play all their games at the Gabba.


You mean the contract that says all AFL matches in SE Queensland must be played at the Gabba? That explains the 2 regular season matches and 1 pre-season match to be played at Carrara next season. Don't worry, Littleduck tried perpetuating that myth a while back. Good effort though.


They will be competiting aginst Brisbane lions as much as the NRL .

Gee, that really happened in Perth and Adelaide didn't it, where both existing teams memberships went up.

My god you must be sh*tscared of the AFL on the Gold Coast.

[ChrisFooty]

.
Gee, that really happened in Perth and Adelaide didn't it, where both existing teams memberships went up.

My god you must be sh*tscared of the AFL on the Gold Coast.

Nope.....Perth and Adelaide are AFL heartlands. I beleive goldcoast, brisbane, NSW, ect are not.

[Rob]

Nope.....Perth and Adelaide are AFL heartlands. I beleive goldcoast, brisbane, NSW, ect are not.

What difference does that make? You seriously think Brisbane supporters are more likely to jump ship than West Coast or Adelaide supporters? Bollocks. Especially so given the new team is an hour down the road, West Coast and Adelaide had to compete with new teams playing on their patch.

[fishmonger]

Nope.....Perth and Adelaide are AFL heartlands. I beleive goldcoast, brisbane, NSW, ect are not.

Melbourne Storm are a league side in an AFL heartland. Even with 5 million people in the state, the Storm manage less than 10,000 for a match but still survive.

If the Gold Coast with 500,000 can manage a crowd of 16,000 for a pre-season practice match between Essendon and - I would say that is AFL heartland enough.

Bums on seats is a true measure of passion, NOT bums on couches for fingers up bums.

[Benno From Berwick]

You'll know the answer when Southport replaces your sorry excuse for a footy club. :cool:


It will not happen in the next 15 years. Sorry. You might want to review the AFL policy and position on Queensland.

[The Dice Man]

It will not happen in the next 15 years. Sorry. You might want to review the AFL policy and position on Queensland.


And I bet in 1972 no-one thought there would be teams in Sydney, Perth and Brisbane within the next 15 years.

Get a grip, you cannot accuratley predict what the AFL Landscape will look like in 15 years time.

[Hicham]

If the Gold Coast with 500,000 can manage a crowd of 16,000 for a pre-season practice match between Essendon and - I would say that is AFL heartland enough.



So, if pre-season NRL trial matches can get 17,000+ and break ground records at Carrara for regular season games between out-of-town teams (21,000+), could we come to the conclusion then that it is Rugby League heartland enough?

Thanks dope! :thumbsu:

[Hicham]

About that on average for Channel 9 games. Obviously pay TV would probably get a lot less.

Yeah, and Elton John is straight.

Cut the crap and post proof.

You know where to go.

http://www.pbl.com.au
http://www.oztam.com.au

[The Dice Man]

So, if pre-season NRL trial matches can get 17,000+ and break ground records at Carrara for regular season games between out-of-town teams (21,000+), could we come to the conclusion then that it is Rugby League heartland enough?

Thanks dope! :thumbsu:


You reckon they can get 21,000 into Carrara? :confused:

[Benno From Berwick]

And I bet in 1972 no-one thought there would be teams in Sydney, Perth and Brisbane within the next 15 years.

Get a grip, you cannot accuratley predict what the AFL Landscape will look like in 15 years time.

That maybe true, but I have discussed this with people within the AFL.

[The Dice Man]

That maybe true, but I have discussed this with people within the AFL.


Whooooaaahh!! I better step off. I didnt realise you'd spoken to people within the AFL, I bow down to thee. :rolleyes:

The cleaners for Ian Collins's catering company dont count.

[Benno From Berwick]

Whooooaaahh!! I better step off. I didnt realise you'd spoken to people within the AFL, I bow down to thee. :rolleyes:

The cleaners for Ian Collins's catering company dont count.

Gee, mature reaction. I guess if you don't want to discuss an issue you might want to go back to watching cartoons.


Child!!

[Hicham]

You reckon they can get 21,000 into Carrara? :confused:

Well, considering that's the capacity of the joint :rolleyes:

Ah, the ignorance.

North Queensland v Canterbury, 27/5/05, Round 12, 21,012

http://stats.rleague.com/rl/seas/2005.html
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/carrara_vn.html

[The Dice Man]

Gee, mature reaction. I guess if you don't want to discuss an issue you might want to go back to watching cartoons.


Child!!


Oh perhaps you've forgotten the majority of posts you've made in this thread huh?

You started by saying there isnt the support or infrastructure on the Coast to support a team. You provided no proof, no detailed analysis or any statistics to support your tripe.

Yet you have had replies stating exactly why the GC and Southport Sharks in particular, backed by stats and figures, could easily support a team in the near future.

May I remind you that there doesnt seem to be enough 'corporate support, nor interest in AFL to support a team in the Western Suburbs of Melbourne'.

I treat you as you are, a 39 year old in nappies.

[Benno From Berwick]

Oh perhaps you've forgotten the majority of posts you've made in this thread huh?

You started by saying there isnt the support or infrastructure on the Coast to support a team. You provided no proof, no detailed analysis or any statistics to support your tripe.

Yet you have had replies stating exactly why the GC and Southport Sharks in particular, backed by stats and figures, could easily support a team in the near future.

May I remind you that there doesnt seem to be enough 'corporate support, nor interest in AFL to support a team in the Western Suburbs of Melbourne'.

I treat you as you are, a 39 year old in nappies.

Funny you talk about support in the Western Subrurbs....

You might have heard of the $20M dollars going into a development at the Whitten Oval. Strange as it may seem to you, Fed Govt, State Govt, AFL, local Business and the Footscray Football Club have all contributed to this development. That would appear, at least on the surface to imply that they all believe there is a place in the AFL for a Western Subrurban team in Melbourne. I guess they don't really see it the way you do.

The AFL don't believe there is the support or infrastructure on the Coast to support a team. Or else they would have already done it. They don't believe the market in Queensland is strong enough to support two clubs. But don't just take my word for it. Look up the 16 teams and you will see there is only one from Queensland. There would be two if the AFL thought it was a winner.

Don't revert to inmature reference to wearing nappies.....how old are you?

[The Dice Man]

Funny you talk about support in the Western Subrurbs....

You might have heard of the $20M dollars going into a development at the Whitten Oval. Strange as it may seem to you, Fed Govt, State Govt, AFL, local Business and the Footscray Football Club have all contributed to this development. That would appear, at least on the surface to imply that they all believe there is a place in the AFL for a Western Subrurban team in Melbourne. I guess they don't really see it the way you do.

The AFL don't believe there is the support or infrastructure on the Coast to support a team. Or else they would have already done it. They don't believe the market in Queensland is strong enough to support two clubs. But don't just take my word for it. Look up the 16 teams and you will see there is only one from Queensland. There would be two if the AFL thought it was a winner.

Don't revert to inmature reference to wearing nappies.....how old are you?


And if everyone thought like you do, we'd still be thinking the world was flat.

And dont you worry about how old I am, I know how old I am. The question is, do you know how old you are?

[Benno From Berwick]

And if everyone thought like you do, we'd still be thinking the world was flat.

And dont you worry about how old I am, I know how old I am. The question is, do you know how old you are?

Good comeback Dice man.

How is it that a view not shared by you makes me backward and not a progressive as you?

[Benno From Berwick]

Maybe you should.....

Why have the AFL given the Gold Coast City Council $1.5m to upgrade Carrara this year? Do you seriously think they are spending that money just to help get through the Commonwealth Games? .

That $1.5M is about game development. I think Carrara would need alot more than that to come up to an acceptable level.

[littleduck]

You mean the contract that says all AFL matches in SE Queensland must be played at the Gabba? That explains the 2 regular season matches and 1 pre-season match to be played at Carrara next season. Don't worry, Littleduck tried perpetuating that myth a while back. Good effort though.Rest assured that agreement still exists between the MSFA and the AFL, originally between the Gabba Trust I think and the AFL.... but you're wrong about it relating to all AFL premiership matches in Queensland, it only relates to a permanent relocation or a 2nd Qld-based team.

[littleduck]

]Carrara] needs to increase to a 30,000 ground capacity. there is one major road in and out of Carrara, there is no nearby train station and its not a major bus route... its a terrible location for a football stadium.

[fishmonger]

So, if pre-season NRL trial matches can get 17,000+ and break ground records at Carrara for regular season games between out-of-town teams (21,000+), could we come to the conclusion then that it is Rugby League heartland enough?

Thanks dope! :thumbsu:

sure.
I don't think it is either AFL or rugby league heartland.
I don't think "heartland" has anything to do with it. All I am saying is that demand exceeds supply for AFL, and it could easily support a team.

Anyway, the fact that the Gold Coast is in Queensland does not follow that the Gold Coast is the same as everywhere else in Queensland and a rugby league heartland.

Far North QLD, like the NT has typically been AFL heartland.
From Townsville to Maroochy and west to Longreach, Ipswich and Towoomba is country hicks and rugby league land.
Brisbane metro is about 25% AFL, 40% league, 30% union. AFL draws bigger crowds than league, but not union.
Whereas Gold Coast is 50/50 AFL and League.
The majority of the ex-pats settle in the suburbs of the Gold Coast, in places like Robina and the corridor between Brisbane and the Coast rather than in the hi-rises along the beach, which makes Carrara a suitable venue.

I reckon the Titans could try to get that many for a pre-season practice match, but they wouldn't.

[The Dice Man]

there is one major road in and out of Carrara, there is no nearby train station and its not a major bus route... its a terrible location for a football stadium.


That one major road has just doubled its capacity to 4 lanes and leads directly to the M1, 2 kilometres away.. As for it being nowhere near a train station, you do realise that the Nerang Rail Station is less than a kilometre from Carrara stadium dont you?

[Hicham]

Far North QLD, like the NT has typically been AFL heartland.


Geez I love BigFooty.

Some of you are incredibly deluded.

If it's typically "AFL heartland", then why did the NRL trial (North Queensland v Melbourne) at the start of the year more than double the crowd for the AFL trial (Brisbane v Melbourne). Something like 17,500 to 8,900. That League game was biggest ever sporting crowd in Cairns' history.

[ChrisFooty]

It will not happen in the next 15 years. Sorry. You might want to review the AFL policy and position on Queensland.

I agree 100%. The AFL just simply don't want Southport in the competiton !
Do you think it's ever possible to have a 18 sides competition. Say when southport enter the AFL inTHE YEAR 2028, they might includfe another team as well at the same time ?

[Funkalicous]

I agree 100%. The AFL just simply don't want Southport in the competiton !


And where the **** did you hear that?

Honestly, start providing some facts to support your dribbling or p*** off!

[The Dice Man]

I agree 100%. The AFL just simply don't want Southport in the competiton !
Do you think it's ever possible to have a 18 sides competition. Say when southport enter the AFL inTHE YEAR 2028, they might includfe another team as well at the same time ?


You tell us Mr Nostradamus.

[ChrisFooty]

sure.

Far North QLD, like the NT has typically been AFL heartland.

I reckon the Titans could try to get that many for a pre-season practice match, but they wouldn't.

Thats Nonsense.

The titans will get a decent crowd and would probably get more than the AFL matches there, as afterall, it's RL heartlands.

Nonsense North QLD is AFL heartland. Maybe like 10 people right up the very top of QLD.

[Funkalicous]

That one major road has just doubled its capacity to 4 lanes

And it could easily double its capacity again. Anyone who's driven on that road will know, it runs through open fields off grass....... Bloody grass! Oh my, it's gonna cost the Gold Coast a fortune to cut it. :p

[The Dice Man]

And it could easily double its capacity again. Anyone who's driven on that road will know, it runs through open fields off grass....... Bloody grass! Oh my, it's gonna cost the Gold Coast a fortune to cut it. :p


My house backs onto that grass, and we were almost flooded back in the middle of the year. That area was a metre under water at one stage.

But you're right, there is plenty more room to expand that road all the way from Nerang station up to where it hooks up at Merrimac at the roundabout as big as a footy ground, where Broadbeach-Nerang rd becomes 4 lanes (for a while) each way.

Carrara is not a bad location for the ground, just under-developed.

[Funkalicous]

My house backs onto that grass, and we were almost flooded back in the middle of the year. That area was a metre under water at one stage.

Hmm, I didn't think about that. That could create some issues. Mind you, it only flooded the one during the year, if I'm correct? That was supposed to be a once in 50 years flood.....

[The Dice Man]

Hmm, I didn't think about that. That could create some issues. Mind you, it only flooded the one during the year, if I'm correct? That was supposed to be a once in 50 years flood.....


Its no serious issue, most of the GC is built on what was swamp lands, and is very low lying. There is just a coulple of areas which flood sometimes.

But yes as you know, the were many, many parts of the Coast underwater when those floods happened, with people trapped at work, or not even being able to get to work. No issue.


What I like about Carrara is that it backs onto the Nerang river, and if the promoters were smart, they could organise dinner at a GC or Broadbeach or even Spit restaurant, and then organise cruises up the Nerang river to and from the games. Would tie in well I think with the Broadbeach to Southport population and perfect for the better temps we have here for visiting supporters.

The other thing is that it's very central (albeit to the northern end of the coast) and there is a train station less than a kilometre away. A train station that gets you to Brissie in just under an hour.


Basically the doomsayers here dont know what they're talking about :)

[Roylion]

I don't a rats clacker if the Sharks share my opinion or not. They're not the first organisation to put on a positive spin and won't the the last to struggle. I won't say fail because the AFL would prop them up for ages. History's a better guide and Gold Coast has a bad one.

If that last statement is an indication as why Qld will happily support a new team, you are scraping the bottom of the barrel for reasons. If you can't get passionate supporters, you won't get great membership in that location. Those type of supporters don't usually become members. It's just not an AFL state despite the Lions success. Just not enough support for 2 teams so close in location in Qld.

[QUOTE=Jimthegreat] Being an ardent Fitzroy/ Brisbane supporter, will you change, will you buy a membership despite being a Lions member?

No. I live in Victoria. But many of my family and friends live on the Gold Coast, and are currently Brisbane Lions supporters and members, but still support their Victorian teams . Most say they would change in a heartbeat if there was a Gold Coast team in the AFL.There's 20 odd members already.

Even "outside" members (other team supporters) who are Lions members as you say are not going to become members of yet another club.

Probably not. They'll ditch Brisbane Lions membership and become Southport members, particularly if membership is cheaper...as it's likely to be.

How many teams can one support, especially in RL territory.

One probably.


You may get a some that will change and others that'll become members anyway but that's not going to get you 25-30,000 members you'll need to be viable.

You'll need less than that to be viable. I don't expect Southport to have that sort of membership in their first few years. but they have the funds and the income to cover it.

If you think they'll be enough support for a new team in SE Qld, on top of the Lions, you're dreaming, especially in rugby territory. That's the tough bit finding support in Rugby territory. Don't give me any story that SE Qld is predominately AFL because it's not. That where you problem is before you start, where do the supporters come from for a second team.

Membership of Southport will not be in the vicinity of 25,000-30,000 in its first year or even its first couple of years. Why would it be? The Lions didn't have that sort of membership until 2004. They broke 20,000 in 2000 for the first time.

However in the first year, Southport membership could reasonably be expected to be roughly 15-16,000. I'm assuming that this scenario involves a relocated team.

a) 5,000 existing Southport members. If Southport have 100,000 members it is reasonable to estimate that just 5% of those would seek to become a full member of their local AFL club.
b) 5,000 Brisbane Lions existing members (about 15-16%) switching clubs. The Brisbane Lions have a substantial Gold Coast Supporters Group for example. With a local AFL club, it is to be expected that some will swap across to the new club, especially if for the first couple of years, with AFL assistance and Southport’s monetary assets helping to offer lower priced memberships due to subsidies.
c) 4,000 Melbourne based members. Brisbane had 3,200 Vic. members in the first year of the merger and have approached 6,000 at various times. Fitzroy had a very small membership base too. With a relocated side from a bigger membership base, I would expect this number to be higher, but again to be conservative I'll keep it at 4,000. I do expect 6,000 to be a far more realistic number though, based on the examples of the merged Brisbane Lions and the relocated Sydney Swans.
d) New members. People who are Australian rules fans on the Coast and who haven’t bothered for various reasons to join the Brisbane Lions and who aren't existing members of Southport. Say to be conservative, 2,000 new members. Gabba crowd figures compared with Brisbane Lions memberships suggest that 13,000 people who go to the football at the Gabba each Lions home game aren’t Lions members.

[Rob]

Rest assured that agreement still exists between the MSFA and the AFL, originally between the Gabba Trust I think and the AFL.... but you're wrong about it relating to all AFL premiership matches in Queensland, it only relates to a permanent relocation or a 2nd Qld-based team.

And you've got a copy of this agreement?

Before you were saying all matches in SE Qld had to be at the Gabba. Now that's clearly proven to be incorrect (or at best, very very flexible), you've come up with a new story?

[Rob]

Yeah, and Elton John is straight.

Cut the crap and post proof.

You know where to go.

http://www.pbl.com.au
http://www.oztam.com.au

Sure.

http://www.pbl.com.au

Generally FNF and Nine's Sunday football come in the national top 50, consequently the ratings for Brisbane are usually published. No idea whether they're still there, but for most weeks the top 50 is on my hard drive.
For instance:

Week 25 (12/6 - 18/6) in Brisbane:
Friday night football: 186,000
Sunday football: Not in top 50 for Brisbane

Week 29 (10/7 - 16/7) in Brisbane:
FNF: 167,000
Sunday Football: 208,000

Week 33 (7/8 - 13/8)in Brisbane:
Friday night football: 110,000
Sunday Football: 229,000

Some of those games may have involved the Broncos, I can't be arsed checking the NRL fixtures.

Interesting that local teams in Perth and Adelaide almost always rate in the top 10 programs for the week. NRL rarely is top 10 in Brisbane (with the exception of SOO), usually comes in about 30th or so.

[littleduck]

And you've got a copy of this agreement?

Before you were saying all matches in SE Qld had to be at the Gabba. Now that's clearly proven to be incorrect (or at best, very very flexible), you've come up with a new story?
No... it seems your memory is failing you in old age.

[littleduck]

Sure.

http://www.pbl.com.au

Generally FNF and Nine's Sunday football come in the national top 50, consequently the ratings for Brisbane are usually published. No idea whether they're still there, but for most weeks the top 50 is on my hard drive.
For instance:

Week 25 (12/6 - 18/6) in Brisbane:
Friday night football: 186,000
Sunday football: Not in top 50 for Brisbane

Week 29 (10/7 - 16/7) in Brisbane:
FNF: 167,000
Sunday Football: 208,000

Week 33 (7/8 - 13/8)in Brisbane:
Friday night football: 110,000
Sunday Football: 229,000

Some of those games may have involved the Broncos, I can't be arsed checking the NRL fixtures.

Interesting that local teams in Perth and Adelaide almost always rate in the top 10 programs for the week. NRL rarely is top 10 in Brisbane (with the exception of SOO), usually comes in about 30th or so.You conveniently ignore the FACT that in the past few seasons the Brisbane Broncos have requested and been granted less FNF games and more Sunday Football games. In addition, the majority of delayed Sunday Football games on 9 involvnig the Broncos follow on from a LIVE Fox Sports telecast. This means if you count the number of Broncos FNF games you'd have spare fingers left on one hand, therefore it's fair to say FNF ratings in Brisbane reflect general RL following.

[Jimthegreat]

[QUOTE=Jimthegreat] I don't a rats clacker if the Sharks share my opinion or not. They're not the first organisation to put on a positive spin and won't the the last to struggle. I won't say fail because the AFL would prop them up for ages. History's a better guide and Gold Coast has a bad one.

If that last statement is an indication as why Qld will happily support a new team, you are scraping the bottom of the barrel for reasons. If you can't get passionate supporters, you won't get great membership in that location. Those type of supporters don't usually become members. It's just not an AFL state despite the Lions success. Just not enough support for 2 teams so close in location in Qld.



No. I live in Victoria. But many of my family and friends live on the Gold Coast, and are currently Brisbane Lions supporters and members, but still support their Victorian teams . Most say they would change in a heartbeat if there was a Gold Coast team in the AFL.There's 20 odd members already.



Probably not. They'll ditch Brisbane Lions membership and become Southport members, particularly if membership is cheaper...as it's likely to be.



One probably.




You'll need less than that to be viable. I don't expect Southport to have that sort of membership in their first few years. but they have the funds and the income to cover it.



Membership of Southport will not be in the vicinity of 25,000-30,000 in its first year or even its first couple of years. Why would it be? The Lions didn't have that sort of membership until 2004. They broke 20,000 in 2000 for the first time.

However in the first year, Southport membership could reasonably be expected to be roughly 15-16,000. I'm assuming that this scenario involves a relocated team.

a) 5,000 existing Southport members. If Southport have 100,000 members it is reasonable to estimate that just 5% of those would seek to become a full member of their local AFL club.
b) 5,000 Brisbane Lions existing members (about 15-16%) switching clubs. The Brisbane Lions have a substantial Gold Coast Supporters Group for example. With a local AFL club, it is to be expected that some will swap across to the new club, especially if for the first couple of years, with AFL assistance and Southport’s monetary assets helping to offer lower priced memberships due to subsidies.
c) 4,000 Melbourne based members. Brisbane had 3,200 Vic. members in the first year of the merger and have approached 6,000 at various times. Fitzroy had a very small membership base too. With a relocated side from a bigger membership base, I would expect this number to be higher, but again to be conservative I'll keep it at 4,000. I do expect 6,000 to be a far more realistic number though, based on the examples of the merged Brisbane Lions and the relocated Sydney Swans.
d) New members. People who are Australian rules fans on the Coast and who haven’t bothered for various reasons to join the Brisbane Lions and who aren't existing members of Southport. Say to be conservative, 2,000 new members. Gabba crowd figures compared with Brisbane Lions memberships suggest that 13,000 people who go to the football at the Gabba each Lions home game aren’t Lions members.Very "unbigfooty" of us. A big "discussion" and not an insult to be found!!!! Maybe I'd better call you something so everyone feels at home!!!!!! lol!

You produce some pretty impressive figures but I still have doubts given the location, SE Qld with a successful club already there, and the fact you're in "foreign" territory. Nothing i'd like better for it to succeed just to stick it up RL as two clubs from the same region getting good crowds would really make them think. While AFL has established a terrific market share in Qld and really made it's mark establishing larger crowds than the Broncos, I'm yet to be convinced SE Qld is ready for two teams. If there genuine interest in AFL the TV ratings would be alot higher. Then you have to get alot more to change allegiances from their current AFL clubs, some would no doubt, but alot wouldn't. I love my AFL by I know i couldn't change if I lived there. History has also shown the Gold Coast not to such a successful place for teams of any desciption. It may have changed over time, given the success of the Lions but I'm a little conservative in my thinking at this point. maybe too many bad memories of the Bears. I just don't think now is the time. Just think it needs more time yet. I'll be delighted to admit I'm wrong if it does work though.

[Rob]

You conveniently ignore the FACT that in the past few seasons the Brisbane Broncos have requested and been granted less FNF games and more Sunday Football games. In addition, the majority of delayed Sunday Football games on 9 involvnig the Broncos follow on from a LIVE Fox Sports telecast. This means if you count the number of Broncos FNF games you'd have spare fingers left on one hand, therefore it's fair to say FNF ratings in Brisbane reflect general RL following.

Not ignoring anything, just stating fact. But I was just told to provide evidence that non-Broncos games rate about 175,000 in Brisbane. Might be a little bit either way, but based on figures provided by PBL, that's about right.

[Rob]

No... it seems your memory is failing you in old age.

Without really being stuffed looking up old posts i'll concede you the point.

But still, other than on these forums, I have never heard of such an agreement.