Draft Summary!

[Drummond]

Just got home from the cricket and I wanted to say that I'm pretty disappointed by the draft results. First of all, another Victorian with our first pick, haven’t we learnt our lesson? Pheiffer I am very pleased with, but then that all we did good in my book.

Bernie Vince? You have got to be joking. He played one good final and that justifies pick 32? I am positive he would have stayed for pick 48 or possibly even 62. What a poor pick. Obst may be alright, but we didn’t even pick Rischbieth? Or what about Sam Elliot, he was available. I rate him very highly.

In my book, another poor draft performance once again.

[bigman]

Just got home from the cricket and I wanted to say that I'm pretty disappointed by the draft results. First of all, another Victorian with our first pick, haven’t we learnt our lesson? Pheiffer I am very pleased with, but then that all we did good in my book.

Bernie Vince? You have got to be joking. He played one good final and that justifies pick 32? I am positive he would have stayed for pick 48 or possibly even 62. What a poor pick. Obst may be alright, but we didn’t even pick Rischbieth? Or what about Sam Elliot, he was available. I rate him very highly.

In my book, another poor draft performance once again.

This is one of our best Drummond. You need to have a Black "Douglas" - and then you will see you have been too quick to criticize. Two quality 10 year players here at least!!!!

When has this happened in the last few years?

[Drummond]

This is one of our best Drummond. You need to have a Black "Douglas" - and then you will see you have been too quick to criticize. Two quality 10 year players here at least!!!!

When has this happened in the last few years?
Douglas will be a 10 year player, 2-4 at the Crows, the rest with a Victorian club :thumbsd:

[bigman]

Douglas will be a 10 year player, 2-4 at the Crows, the rest with a Victorian club :thumbsd:

Please have a little more faith than this.

He does not come from Melbourne - which is a good start.

He is a country lad and went to Assumption.

Much less likely to leave.

[Drummond]

Please have a little more faith than this.

He does not come from Melbourne - which is a good start.

He is a country lad and went to Assumption.

Much less likely to leave.
Fine I will stop stressing about that pick.

But Bernie Vince at 32? :eek:

RIDICULOUS! :thumbsd:

[Bockchoy67]

Douglas will be a 10 year player, 2-4 at the Crows, the rest with a Victorian club :thumbsd:

Fanta and co obviously believed Douglas was the best avaliable - IMO he was.

Why then should the fact that he's Victorian stop us from picking him?

When the player's avaliable you take him, regardless of origin. We can't restrict ourselves, especially when we don't have great picks (like today).

Vince was the big smoky and the biggest risk, but Fanta would know what he's doing. If anything he could turn out to be a very good player. Wouldn't be suprised if he turns out to be a player, and wouldn't be suprised to see him play a few games this year.:thumbsu:

[bigman]

Fine I will stop stressing about that pick.

But Bernie Vince at 32? :eek:

RIDICULOUS! :thumbsd:

I think he can play. I agree though 32 might have been a bit high.

Suggestion is that ST Kilda wanted him at 33.

He does have some very good qualities however - see other threads!!!

He may be one of the steals of the draft!! I might also have a lot of egg on my face. But thats footie!!!!!!:)

[bigman]

Fanta and co obviously believed Douglas was the best avaliable - IMO he was.

Why then should the fact that he's Victorian stop us from picking him?

When the player's avaliable you take him, regardless of origin. We can't restrict ourselves, especially when we don't have great picks (like today).

Vince was the big smoky and the biggest risk, but Fanta would know what he's doing. If anything he could turn out to be a very good player. Wouldn't be suprised if he turns out to be a player, and wouldn't be suprised to see him play a few games this year.:thumbsu:

Right on Bockchoy - good post!!!!!:) :)

[Kane McGoodwin]

In my book, another poor draft performance once again.
Could we have expected you to say anything different, regardless of who we drafted.

[Drummond]

Vince was the big smoky and the biggest risk, but Fanta would know what he's doing. If anything he could turn out to be a very good player. Wouldn't be suprised if he turns out to be a player, and wouldn't be suprised to see him play a few games this year.:thumbsu:
No I genuinely don’t believe 'Fanta' knows what he’s doing. Has he made choices in the past that would install us with confidence? I believe not.

Trust me, I’ve seen a fait bit of Vince this year, and he is a handy player. He averaged maybe about 10-15 possessions per game, which is quite ordinary, and quite pathetic for someone taken at pick 32. I doubt he will ever amount to anything in the AFL.

[Drummond]

Could we have expected you to say anything different, regardless of who we drafted.
Did you even bother to read my initial post? I said I would have been delighted with Rischbieth or Sam Elliot.

[GoSarge]

Just got home from the cricket and I wanted to say that I'm pretty disappointed by the draft results. First of all, another Victorian with our first pick, haven’t we learnt our lesson? Pheiffer I am very pleased with, but then that all we did good in my book.

Bernie Vince? You have got to be joking. He played one good final and that justifies pick 32? I am positive he would have stayed for pick 48 or possibly even 62. What a poor pick. Obst may be alright, but we didn’t even pick Rischbieth? Or what about Sam Elliot, he was available. I rate him very highly.

In my book, another poor draft performance once again.

Let me ask you a few questions.

1) - If we took Pfeiffer first followed by Douglas, would you have been happier that we took a SA lad with our first pick ?

2) - What do you think justifies being picked at 32 ? A couple of good games at TAC level ? A few good games at the Champs ? A good draft camp result ? Please tell us who you would have picked at number 32, given the names available.

3) Please tell us why Rischbeith should have been picked up with pick 32. Rischbeith may have a huge engine, but that is not the be all and end all of a footballer. Remember he was overlooked, along with Elliot, by 16 football clubs. They can't all be wrong.

[Crow-mosone]

Just got home from the cricket and I wanted to say that I'm pretty disappointed by the draft results.

of course you are.

[Crow-mosone]

Did you even bother to read my initial post? I said I would have been delighted with Rischbieth or Sam Elliot.

whom NONE of the 16 clubs wanted to touch with ANY of their picks. :eek:

[Drummond]

Let me ask you a few questions.

1) - If we took Pfeiffer first followed by Douglas, would you have been happier that we took a SA lad with our first pick ?

2) - What do you think justifies being picked at 32 ? A couple of good games at TAC level ? A few good games at the Champs ? A good draft camp result ? Please tell us who you would have picked at number 32, given the names available.

3) Please tell us why Rischbeith should have been picked up with pick 32. Rischbeith may have a huge engine, but that is not the be all and end all of a footballer. Remember he was overlooked, along with Elliot, by 16 football clubs. They can't all be wrong.
1. You can’t be serious? Even if he went at pick 17 I still would have been frustrated. I do not doubt that he will be a good player, just whether he’ll be here when he reaches his potential.

2. A player with plenty of potential, someone who could be a 150 game player with the Crows is someone who would justify selection 32. Bernie Vince is simply someone who could be a handy player, he will be nothing more. 50 games is the maximum I would expect out of Vince.

3. I will gladly tell you why Rischbeith should have been picked up with pick 32. He is listed at 190cm, and isn’t a KPP what the crows are desperately lacking? He has the athletic ability, and all he needs to do is build up his body and he gain more experience with Sturt. He would have been a much, much better option that Vince.

[Drummond]

whom NONE of the 16 clubs wanted to touch with ANY of their picks. :eek:
Ever heard of James Hird?

Draft History: 1990 National AFL Draft 6th round selection (Essendon) No.79 overall. Every single club passed on him, what a dud he must be :eek:

[Kane McGoodwin]

Did you even bother to read my initial post? I said I would have been delighted with Rischbieth or Sam Elliot.
Yes, I read your inititial post & you are negative as usual. We could have drafted the 4 suposed best kids in the draft & you would still find something wrong.

[Drummond]

Yes, I read your inititial post & you are negative as usual. We could have drafted the 4 suposed best kids in the draft & you would still find something wrong.
You are wrong. Even taking people like Rischbeith and Elliot would have made me satisfied. I am well aware we couldn't take the best talent on offer in the draft, but we could have taken the best talent that was available when we had our picks.

[GoSarge]

1. You can’t be serious? Even if he went at pick 17 I still would have been frustrated. I do not doubt that he will be a good player, just whether he’ll be here when he reaches his potential.

2. A player with plenty of potential, someone who could be a 150 game player with the Crows is someone who would justify selection 32. Bernie Vince is simply someone who could be a handy player, he will be nothing more. 50 games is the maximum I would expect out of Vince.

3. I will gladly tell you why Rischbeith should have been picked up with pick 32. He is listed at 190cm, and isn’t a KPP what the crows are desperately lacking? He has the athletic ability, and all he needs to do is build up his body and he gain more experience with Sturt. He would have been a much, much better option that Vince.

1) - Firstly, I was just taking the ******** with the first comment. Secondly, please tell us WHO and WHY you would have taken with our first two picks.

2) - Personally I think that for someone to really stand up at SANFL level against MEN in tough finals is real impressive. At 19 years old and has a relatively physically mature body, there is no reason why he cant be a 150 game player. Considering he was playing country football at the start of the year, perhaps he has major improvement STILL to come ?

3) - So if we made a bad mistake at 32 by not picking him, are you saying that the other clubs have made BIGGER mistakes by not picking him up with subsequent picks ? Quite odd, that EVERY club overlooked him, yet we made a massive mistake by not picking him up at #32 ?

[Kane McGoodwin]

You are wrong. Even taking people like Rischbeith and Elliot would have made me satisfied. I am well aware we couldn't take the best talent on offer in the draft, but we could have taken the best talent that was available when we had our picks.
I find it hard to believe that you can ever be satisfied...

[Fudd]

No I genuinely don’t believe 'Fanta' knows what he’s doing. Has he made choices in the past that would install us with confidence? I believe not.

Trust me, I’ve seen a fait bit of Vince this year, and he is a handy player. He averaged maybe about 10-15 possessions per game, which is quite ordinary, and quite pathetic for someone taken at pick 32. I doubt he will ever amount to anything in the AFL.

Well most people seem to be pretty happy with Fantasia's pickups last year, and unearthing Ben Hudson and Stiffy with late picks shows he can spot the talent. See thats why he is an AFL Recruiter and you arent. And by the way Richbeith wouldnt be a key position, and seeings as he was hardly on the radar before his great results at the draft camp, im not that unhappy we we didnt waste a pick on an athlete rather than going for some footballers instead.

[Drummond]

1) - Firstly, I was just taking the ******** with the first comment. Secondly, please tell us WHO and WHY you would have taken with our first two picks.

2) - Personally I think that for someone to really stand up at SANFL level against MEN in tough finals is real impressive. At 19 years old and has a relatively physically mature body, there is no reason why he cant be a 150 game player. Considering he was playing country football at the start of the year, perhaps he has major improvement STILL to come ?

3) - So if we made a bad mistake at 32 by not picking him, are you saying that the other clubs have made BIGGER mistakes by not picking him up with subsequent picks ? Quite odd, that EVERY club overlooked him, yet we made a massive mistake by not picking him up at #32 ?
1. Of course you were. Anyway, you asked what picks I would have made, and why. Well here you go:

16. Cleve Hughes. Unlimited potential, he has the ability to be a great forward. He is South Australian so he would have never felt the urge to return home.

17. Darren Pheiffer. I have seen him play dozens of times, as I go to every Norwood match. He is a very strong, mobile player. He is extremely courageous and I’ve never seen him back away from a contest. He has good, clean skills too.

2. I hope you’re right, but I doubt he will be any good.

3. Enough is enough, I have said it before. Rischbeith or Elliot should have been taken with either pick 32 as they have much more potential than Vince. I don’t really care what decisions other clubs made, the fact is that we made a poor choice.

[Crow-mosone]

Ever heard of James Hird?

Draft History: 1990 National AFL Draft 6th round selection (Essendon) No.79 overall. Every single club passed on him, what a dud he must be :eek:

Drummond, this just shows your lack of understanding

do you know why James Hird was overlooked by every other club, and why Essendon thought that could afford to leave him late?

answers on the back of a postcard...

[Drummond]

Well most people seem to be pretty happy with Fantasia's pickups last year, and unearthing Ben Hudson and Stiffy with late picks shows he can spot the talent. See thats why he is an AFL Recruiter and you arent. And by the way Richbeith wouldnt be a key position, and seeings as he was hardly on the radar before his great results at the draft camp, im not that unhappy we we didnt waste a pick on an athlete rather than going for some footballers instead.
Reilly as the 12th selection in the most powerful draft of all time? I guess that's why Fantasia's the recruiting manager and not me.

[Crow-mosone]

I am well aware we couldn't take the best talent on offer in the draft, but we could have taken the best talent that was available when we had our picks.

so now you're an expert recruiter as well?

[Bockchoy67]

1. You can’t be serious? Even if he went at pick 17 I still would have been frustrated. I do not doubt that he will be a good player, just whether he’ll be here when he reaches his potential.

2. A player with plenty of potential, someone who could be a 150 game player with the Crows is someone who would justify selection 32. Bernie Vince is simply someone who could be a handy player, he will be nothing more. 50 games is the maximum I would expect out of Vince.

3. I will gladly tell you why Rischbeith should have been picked up with pick 32. He is listed at 190cm, and isn’t a KPP what the crows are desperately lacking? He has the athletic ability, and all he needs to do is build up his body and he gain more experience with Sturt. He would have been a much, much better option that Vince.

1. Once again - he was the best avaliable. You always take the best avaliable regardless of where he lives.

2. We weren't the only club to take risks just in case you don't know. Here's just examples:

- Max Bailey by Hawthorn at pick 18
- Jake Edwads by Carlton at pick 36.
- Jay Neagle by Essendon at 39 (F/S)
- Robert Warnock by Fremantle at 42
- Ryan Gamble by Geelong at 47
- Joel Patful by Brisbane at 56
- Matthew Stokes by Geelong at 61
etc

IMO Vince could be something special = he's a smooth mover with great skills and can find the goals. Nice height too. Obviously he could turn out to be bust but the success rate of the draft isn't as high as some may think - particularly in a weak draft you can take risks. I'm glad we took one.

3. Rischbeith isn't a KPP - he's actually 188cm. He's not what we're looking for - plus he's not an onballer. It's not like we need anymore wingers.

[Drummond]

so now you're an expert recruiter as well?
What’s with all the attitude on this board? Is everyone on this board always so fierce whenever someone has a differing opinion?

FACT: Rischbeith and Elliot are much better prospects that Vince.

[Drummond]

1. Once again - he was the best avaliable. You always take the best avaliable regardless of where he lives.
This is not my opinion, but according to Footy Draft.com, Cleve Hughes was predicted to go at 11, while Douglas was predicted at 22. Best talent selected, maybe not.
2. We weren't the only club to take risks just in case you don't know. Here's just examples:

- Joel Patful by Brisbane at 56
- Matthew Stokes by Geelong at 61
Picks 56 and 61 are shaky picks; most teams will often even pass when it comes to this stage. So why not gamble when using such low picks, I’m pretty sure even Vince would have been available at this time.
3. Rischbeith isn't a KPP - he's actually 188cm. He's not what we're looking for - plus he's not an onballer. It's not like we need anymore wingers.
Tom Rischbieth: 190cm

[Crow-mosone]

FACT: Rischbeith and Elliot are much better prospects that Vince.

FACT: you don't know your a*se from your elbow, so on that basis I'm glad we didn't select either.

*still waiting for your jimmy hird explanation?

[Drummond]

FACT: you don't know your a*se from your elbow, so on that basis I'm glad we didn't select either.

*still waiting for your jimmy hird explanation?
Great pos mate... :confused:

I was not so much just pointing out Hird, just the fact that every team will often pass on a player, yet they still have good careers.

[Crow-mosone]

Great pos mate... :confused:

I was not so much just pointing out Hird, just the fact that every team will often pass on a player, yet they still have good careers.

ok genius.

the reason Jimmy hird went no.79, was Essendon was the only club that had a scout in the ACT. back then no one else thought it worth while, and so only Essendon had seen him.

Chris Grant & Ashley McIntosh are great examples of champs slipping through. Hird ain't.

[Crow-mosone]

This is not my opinion, but according to Footy Draft.com, Cleve Hughes was predicted to go at 11, while Douglas was predicted at 22. Best talent selected, maybe not.

footydraft is a vox populi gossip column, run by a student who was suckered into putting in 100's hrs of time without getting paid. it's not an expert opinion. thought interesting to read at times.



Picks 56 and 61 are shaky picks; most teams will often even pass when it comes to this stage. So why not gamble when using such low picks, I’m pretty sure even Vince would have been available at this time.

you can't say that. if we beleived he'd be available, we'd have taken him later.


Tom Rischbieth: 190cm

and he's a wingmen, what's your point?

[Drummond]

you can't say that. if we beleived he'd be available, we'd have taken him later.
What other team would be so stupid to pick a 20 year old with little upside at pick 32, especially when there were other good prospecets available.
and he's a wingmen, what's your point?
You said he was 188cm. Regardless, he is strong overhead and he plays taller that he is. But regardless again, he could eventuate into a wingman or forward and he was one of the best players on offer at this stage, so he still should have been taken.

[crowsarethebest]

This is not my opinion, but according to Footy Draft.com, Cleve Hughes was predicted to go at 11, while Douglas was predicted at 22. Best talent selected, maybe not.

Picks 56 and 61 are shaky picks; most teams will often even pass when it comes to this stage. So why not gamble when using such low picks, I’m pretty sure even Vince would have been available at this time.

Tom Rischbieth: 190cm
Yes, footydraft rated Hughes at 11 while Douglas at 22. Footydraft does not = the rankings of players. It was footymans opinion.. DOn't you think that Cleve Hughes was a bit overated? Everybody expected him to go at 11 to the doggies, but ended up at 24. Douglas, don't you think he was "underated". No one really talked about him until 2 weeks away from the draft. I think we did well, good job by our recruiting team.

[Crow-mosone]

What other team would be so stupid to pick a 20 year old with little upside at pick 32, especially when there were other good prospecets available.


when one doesn't agree with your informed and expert analysis.



You said he was 188cm. Regardless, he is strong overhead and he plays taller that he is. But regardless again, he could eventuate into a wingman or forward and he was one of the best players on offer at this stage, so he still should have been taken.

actually i didn't. good call.

FACT: no one with a better opinion than yours, i.e. the professionals, agrees with you.

[Drummond]

Well we've all made our points. In summary, I think our overall drafting was a disappointment and a missed opportunity.

[crowsarethebest]

Well we've all made our points. In summary, I think our overall drafting was a disappointment and a missed opportunity.
Tell us what mad you so "unhappy" and "dissapointed". Just because Douglas is a victorian doesn't meen he will go home after.

[Drummond]

Tell us what mad you so "unhappy" and "dissapointed". Just because Douglas is a victorian doesn't meen he will go home after.
Read the thread :thumbsu:

[Kane McGoodwin]

Well we've all made our points. In summary, I think our overall drafting was a disappointment and a missed opportunity.
In summary, most on this board could have predicted before the draft you would be disappointed by AFC's efforts. Reckon you must be the guy who sits behind me 2 rows that whinges about certain AFC players throughout the whole game, even if they are playing well & we are winning comfortably. Time you went & found some positive pills, because you won't get all of us slitting our wrists on your say so.

[Drummond]

In summary, most on this board could have predicted before the draft you would be disappointed by AFC's efforts. Reckon you must be the guy who sits behind me 2 rows that whinges about certain AFC players throughout the whole game, even if they are playing well & we are winning comfortably. Time you went & found some positive pills, because you won't get all of us slitting our wrists on your say so.
You seriously don’t get it do you?

Let’s refresh your memory shall we. “Even taking people like Rischbeith and Elliot would have made me satisfied.”

[Blind Fred]

Drummond, you have no idea. Douglas is a great get, as is Pfeiffer, while Vince has something special that has obviously impressed people like Fanta, Neil Craig and Allan Stewart. Rischbieth is NOT a KPP. He may get a chance on the rookie list but if you have bothered to watch him play you will quickly see that he is not a natural footballer. Vince is. And forget about bagging the Crows for taking a Victorian at pick 16. There was only one other SA boy perhaps worthy of a first round pick - Hughes - and the jury is still out on him. Douglas CAN play. Let's make him feel welcome ... remember he's probably checking this site out to see how the news has been received.

[Crow-mosone]

You seriously don’t get it do you?

Let’s refresh your memory shall we. “Even taking people like Rischbeith and Elliot would have made me satisfied.”

no. let's refresh yours

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4266210&postcount=14

[Drummond]

Drummond, you have no idea. Douglas is a great get, as is Pfeiffer, while Vince has something special that has obviously impressed people like Fanta, Neil Craig and Allan Stewart. Rischbieth is NOT a KPP. He may get a chance on the rookie list but if you have bothered to watch him play you will quickly see that he is not a natural footballer. Vince is.
Rischbieth has unlimited potential, while Vince does not. As I said before (does anyone read previous posts?), it doesn't matter what position he plays, he is versatile and could fit into numerous positions.
Let's make him feel welcome ... remember he's probably checking this site out to see how the news has been received.
LOL! :D Playing the guilty card are we?

[Drummond]

no. let's refresh yours

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4266210&postcount=14
Read the thread in its entirety! Far out is that so hard to ask? :eek:

[Crow-mosone]

Read the thread in its entirety! Far out is that so hard to ask? :eek:

you're wrong at post 1, and continued downhill from there.

perhaps you'll tell us why you're right and all the clubs and the recruiting teams are wrong?

[Crow-mosone]

Rischbieth has unlimited potential, while Vince does not. As I said before (does anyone read previous posts?), it doesn't matter what position he plays, he is versatile and could fit into numerous positions.


but NOBODY who matters thinks so.

why do think that is?

[Drummond]

perhaps you'll tell us why you're right and all the clubs and the recruiting teams are wrong?
Hopeless, absolutely hopeless. I have spent the last few posts telling you to read my previous posts. In these posts I explained my reasons behind what I have said. If you don’t get it by now, you never will. Hopeless.

[Crow-mosone]

Hopeless, absolutely hopeless. I have spent the last few posts telling you to read my previous posts. In these posts I explained my reasons behind what I have said. If you don’t get it by now, you never will. Hopeless.

I think you meant to say:

"whoops, you got me. I have NFI. I am unable to rationally provide any insight beyond hysterical moaning - because I am a whingy little bitch. I apologise".

[Drummond]

I think you meant to say:

"whoops, you got me. I have NFI. I am unable to rationally provide any insight beyond hysterical moaning - because I am a whingy little bitch. I apologise".
You really are an idiot aren't you? Look at the trash you just posted.

[Crow-mosone]

You really are an idiot aren't you? Look at the trash you just posted.

how many people have to tell you same thing before you realise you are completely clueless?

how many, give me a number?

[Drummond]

how many people have to tell you same thing before you realise you are completely clueless?

how many, give me a number?
1 person that I respect.

Let me get this straight, you are having a huge go at me because you disagree with me about our drafting? Aren't I allowed to have an opinion? Laughable mate, pure comedy on your behalf.

[Capitalist]

well, not knowing about the players that much I think it is refreshing that we have picked up some SANFL lads - I think it was also great to pick up a crows fan in obst - it probably means a lot more to him to play for the crows than some random from Victoria.

pleased with the picks good to see us restocking our midfield :thumbsu:

[Crow-mosone]

1 person that I respect.


so all 16 teams know less than you, and therefore you don't respect them?

I give up.

[Kristof]

You are wrong. Even taking people like Rischbeith and Elliot would have made me satisfied.

Well, now you can get them in the PSD and/or rookie draft. That's known as having your cake and eating it too.

[Macca19]

ok genius.

the reason Jimmy hird went no.79, was Essendon was the only club that had a scout in the ACT. back then no one else thought it worth while, and so only Essendon had seen him.

Chris Grant & Ashley McIntosh are great examples of champs slipping through. Hird ain't.

Actually thats not quite right either. Ashley Mcintosh was a father-son pick.

On Hird....this was taken from Weavers draft page:

http://www.comcen.com.au/~weaver/

1990-91
Rules: The minimum draft age was 16. Clubs were allowed to select only one WA player each and South Australia was off-limits because of the introduction of Adelaide. Players in Queensland and NSW/ACT could only be selected by clubs other than the Bears and Swans respectively, if the player was older than 19 and not required by the 'local' club. Faced with these restrictions the league reduced the number of choices from 8 to 6. In exchange for the SA moratorium, the Crows were excluded from the draft (they could pick any South Australian, but only South Australians).

Bits and Pieces: Jason McCartney kept a diary on behalf of the Age newspaper detailing the weeks leading up to the draft. In it he reveals the confusion and uncertainty that a young footballer feels. McCartney from Nhill in Victoria (near the SA border) was hesitant about moving to Melbourne. He went to Adelaide as a guest of Glenelg and watched the AFL grand final on the big screen, and watched Glenelg loose the SA Grand Final the next day. The 16 year old was devastated by Collingwood's victory. He went to the Glenelg after match and to a few nightclubs to drown the sorrows.

With Sydney and Brisbane having the first draft picks he signed for Glenelg on a two year deal. When Sydney and Brisbane traded their selections his hopes lifted. Geelong told him that they would take Hooper first and would be attempting to get the second pick to take McCartney. Geelong were unable to manufacture a trade and Carlton ended up with the selection (they swapped ruckman Warren McKenzie to Sydney). Ian Collins, Geoff Walsh, Bruce Comben and Kinnear Beatson all drove up to Nhill to meet with McCartney, and the next morning David Parkin rang him to ask if everything went well.

On draft day Carlton opted for Tasmanian James Cook. Parkin said that he felt that Cook had the potential to be an even better player. Collingwood drafted him and McCartney openly admitted he was devasted and that Collingwood was last on his list of clubs.

The trades which made the above possible were Carlton swapping McKenzie to Sydney for 2 pick overall, and Collingwood swapping Terry Keays to Richmond for 4th pick overall. One recruiting oficer commenting about the decision making of Syndey and Richmond said, "those clubs deserve to be in the position they are in if they are going to make choices like that".

Those of you who have read the rules (above) would be asking if ACT players had to be 19 and unwanted by the Swans, how was it that a 16 year old James Hird was recruited to Essendon? I honestly don't know but obviously the Essendon recruiting manager found a loop-hole. Next time people tell you about how extraordinary it was that Hird could be drafted at 79th, you will remember that things were a little more complex than they first appeared

[Ford Fairlane]

I think to argue that someone is wrong because no one at the 16 clubs 'rated' a player is an argument fraught with danger. On that basis, no one rated players like Pavlich, Davey, Lovett-Murray, Pearce, etc either. Didn't Bock, Hentschel and Rutten come off the crows rookie list? No one rated them either as far as ND and PSD goes. It's all a matter of opinion and sometimes it's just the safety net of the rookie list that saves red faces all round now. Even Joel Patfull who spent 2 years on Port's rookie list, trained with the crows last year and was overlooked, was picked up by Brisbane in the ND. Is he rated now?

[- PC -]

2. A player with plenty of potential, someone who could be a 150 game player with the Crows is someone who would justify selection 32. Bernie Vince is simply someone who could be a handy player, he will be nothing more. 50 games is the maximum I would expect out of Vince.
Hey Dummond

The % of players that play 150 games from pick 32 is as low as aunt marys tatas. What you are looking for is that jewel in the rough. I dont know about Vince , nor do i know about Reischbeith but what I do know is that for all my ''experience'' and expertise I dont know what Neil Craig wants.

Hell maybe the ONLY reason Bernie Vince ( along with Richie Douglas) got selected was so Neil Craig had someone else in his team with a double name name. :thumbsu:

[Effes]

Who of the draftees are likely to play the most games next year? Pfeiffer?

[bigman]

Who of the draftees are likely to play the most games next year? Pfeiffer?

No doubt.

But dont discount Douglas and Vince

[Wayne's-World]

From todays Melbourne Papers:

RICHARD DOUGLAS
No. 16 (Calder Cannons) 18yo 180cm 68kg Defender with a terrific work rate, clean hands and footy smarts. Won coaches award for Vic Metro, was selected in TAC Cup team of the year and won Calder Cannons' bestand- fairest. Impressive draft camp with speed, agility and endurance all in the top 15 per cent.

DARREN PFEIFFER No. 17 (Norwood) 18yo 183cm 79kg Good ball-winner who played senior football in SANFL this year. Can play forward or back, and takes a grab. No.1 at the draft camp for standing vertical leap.

BERNIE VINCE No. 32 (Woodville West Torrens) 20yo 186cm 81kg Played four senior games in the SANFL this year including a top performance in the preliminary final against Port Adelaide Magpies.

ALAN OBST No. 48 (Central District) 18yo 193cm 82kg Tall defender who is strong overhead, accountable and very determined. Represented SA at the under 18 carnival.

THE CLUB SAYS
"We really wanted to get a genuine inside midfielder, a competitor, and we reckon Douglas is just that sort of kid. Pfeiffer is quick and again has an enormous commitment at the ball. We know, given the age of our midfield, that we've got to start underpinning the centre square we've got with some new cornerstone players." - James Fantasia, recruiting manager.

THE SUNDAY AGE SAYS
With three young ruckmen (John Meesen, Ivan Maric and Jonathon Griffin) recruited last year, the Crows sought ground-level centre-square types this year. A move which makes eminent sense when you realise that Mark Ricciuto turns 31 next season, Andrew McLeod 30, Tyson Edwards 30 and Simon Goodwin will blow out 29 candles on his birthday cake next month.

Guys I have scoured every bit of commentary on Douglas both Before the draft and after the draft - the key point is that I have not found any negative comments about him or his game - in fact everyone says he's a star of the future!

[bigman]

From todays Melbourne Papers:


Guys I have scoured every bit of commentary on Douglas both Before the draft and after the draft - the key point is that I have not found any negative comments about him or his game - in fact everyone says he's a star of the future!

Right on WW.

[Markthirtytwo]

Whew! Almost out of breath reading this marathon.

But back to the question.
I am happy with the draft picks especially Douglas. His bio reads like he could have been up there with Murphy and will be interesting to see which one pans out to be the better of the two.

I will take this on as a personal exercise.

Happy with the SA boys we picked up although dont know much about Vince.
He was the smokey but we did have a good look at him recently. Again his attitude must have won the club over as much as his ability.

That is something that is getting missed in the previous debates over other likely candidates.

But who says we wont get them in the Rookie Draft.

[topjars]

When its all said and done, all the draftees :

have potential,
will be stars of the future,
show promise,
blah blah blah.

If we had picked up any other rookies we would be singing their praises just as much...would we not?


I hate the draft. Wake me up when the footy starts.:p

[Stiffy_18]

Ever heard of James Hird?

Draft History: 1990 National AFL Draft 6th round selection (Essendon) No.79 overall. Every single club passed on him, what a dud he must be :eek:
He got drafted where as your suggestions got overlooked all together.

Since we are on topic of James Hird, can you tell us why exactly was James Hird picked up that late.

While you are at it, tell us a bit about the difference in recruiting in 1990 and 2006.

[Stiffy_18]

ok genius.

the reason Jimmy hird went no.79, was Essendon was the only club that had a scout in the ACT. back then no one else thought it worth while, and so only Essendon had seen him.

Chris Grant & Ashley McIntosh are great examples of champs slipping through. Hird ain't.
That and also the fact that he broke his leg in the first game of the National Championships and the teams that didn't have scouts in the ACT/NSW region, have never really had a decent look at him.

[SpringChoke]

My initial reaction was one of indifference ( wasn't excited, wasn't diappointed). However, the more I read about the kids we drafted the more excited I get. In Douglas and Pefiffer, we have 2 of the better midfielders in the draft. Surprised with Vince taken at 32, but jeez its pick 32, not a top 10er.

Douglas - Footydraft quotes him as "inside player" and "strong tackler" - Big tick IMO. I was initially disappointed we didn't take Hughes but our midfield in the next few years will be our major worry and this kid looks to have the goods. The "go home" factor always worries me but if you look at it we only have 7 players under 24 who are Non-Sth Aussies leaving us alot less excposed than other non-vic clubs, Port for example.

Pfeiffer - Footdraft quotes him as "couragous/strong tackler" - Thank you very much. Looks a good prospect.

Vince - The smokey. I was initally disappointed with this pick. However, I thought back to some of his performances in the SANFL and this kid has something about him. He isn't afraid to go in and get the ball and has footy smarts. Also very couragous. Another inside player IMHO.

Obst- Don't lknow much about him but the fact he is deperately wanted to get picked up by us is good enough for me.


Looking at the types of players we have drafted this year, and in 2004, IMO we can finally put the final nail in the coffin of our preference for outside, flank types - Jericho, Begley, Ladhams, Skipworth, Doughty etc.

I'm stoked.

[GoSarge]

Good Call Springy. Spot on the mark I reckon.

[Crow-mosone]

I think to argue that someone is wrong because no one at the 16 clubs 'rated' a player is an argument fraught with danger. On that basis, no one rated players like Pavlich, Davey, Lovett-Murray, Pearce, etc either. Didn't Bock, Hentschel and Rutten come off the crows rookie list? No one rated them either as far as ND and PSD goes. It's all a matter of opinion and sometimes it's just the safety net of the rookie list that saves red faces all round now. Even Joel Patfull who spent 2 years on Port's rookie list, trained with the crows last year and was overlooked, was picked up by Brisbane in the ND. Is he rated now?

I could raise you wil gayfer. however what it certainly proves is that a player shouldn't have been a 2nd round pick. it is plain silly to suggest that should have been picked in the 2nd round when they passed through the whole process.

[afc9798]

Ever heard of James Hird?

Draft History: 1990 National AFL Draft 6th round selection (Essendon) No.79 overall. Every single club passed on him, what a dud he must be :eek:

A pretty extreme example Drummond and I think you'll find that Hird was as much a surprise to Essendon as he was to the rest of the comp. In those days they didn't have the data, draft camps and analysis to make the decisions they do now and whilst the odd smoky will get through, it is pretty obvious that 16 clubs saw a serious deficiency in Rischbieth.

I don't think you'll see too many Hirds in the years to come, or Johncocks for that matter. On another note, a mate of mine in Melbourne who is very close to the TAC comp. reckons that Douglas is a gun and a very mature kid, so he could be ready to play sooner rather than later. He was surprised that Douglas didn't go at 8-9. I guess we have to wait and see.

[afc9798]

My initial reaction was one of indifference ( wasn't excited, wasn't diappointed). However, the more I read about the kids we drafted the more excited I get. In Douglas and Pefiffer, we have 2 of the better midfielders in the draft. Surprised with Vince taken at 32, but jeez its pick 32, not a top 10er.

Douglas - Footydraft quotes him as "inside player" and "strong tackler" - Big tick IMO. I was initially disappointed we didn't take Hughes but our midfield in the next few years will be our major worry and this kid looks to have the goods. The "go home" factor always worries me but if you look at it we only have 7 players under 24 who are Non-Sth Aussies leaving us alot less excposed than other non-vic clubs, Port for example.

Pfeiffer - Footdraft quotes him as "couragous/strong tackler" - Thank you very much. Looks a good prospect.

Vince - The smokey. I was initally disappointed with this pick. However, I thought back to some of his performances in the SANFL and this kid has something about him. He isn't afraid to go in and get the ball and has footy smarts. Also very couragous. Another inside player IMHO.

Obst- Don't lknow much about him but the fact he is deperately wanted to get picked up by us is good enough for me.


Looking at the types of players we have drafted this year, and in 2004, IMO we can finally put the final nail in the coffin of our preference for outside, flank types - Jericho, Begley, Ladhams, Skipworth, Doughty etc.

I'm stoked.

Nothing wrong with outside players with athletic ability as long as they are complemented by the inside players. I think we got the mix right this time around and the club has picked hard working ball getters which will match up well with our quicker players. Someone has to get the ball, then someone has to receive and carry it forward quickly. With Thommo spending more time in the middle as he gets fitter and stronger and the young guys coming in, I think there's a great nucleus for the future.

[Roominant]

Hi folks. First time poster here and just trying with this post to get a feel for it. I've been watching for a while and pre season seemed a good time to join.

We have future proofed our midfield in my opinion with our picks. Our defence will be strong for years and we have adequate rucks. Kenny at CHF fills a need until we can recruit to cover that area. With Maric developing well we have got some height to stretch a defence when he finds his feet.

Looking forward to next year.

[SpringChoke]

Hi folks. First time poster here and just trying with this post to get a feel for it. I've been watching for a while and pre season seemed a good time to join.

We have future proofed our midfield in my opinion with our picks. Our defence will be strong for years and we have adequate rucks. Kenny at CHF fills a need until we can recruit to cover that area. With Maric developing well we have got some height to stretch a defence when he finds his feet.

Looking forward to next year.

Welcome to the board mate. Our first 22 Kpp's in Trent H, Bock, Rutts, Kenny, The Dispenser i'm more than happy with. It's when one of them gets injured that things could get ugly. You wouldn't expect Obst to come into contention until 2007 and you can give a big PFFFT to Scott Stevens. I have a feeling if we do suffer kpp injuries Gibson may find himself playing a game sooner than expected.

[GoSarge]

Welcome to the board mate. Our first 22 Kpp's in Trent H, Bock, Rutts, Kenny, The Dispenser i'm more than happy with. It's when one of them gets injured that things could get ugly. You wouldn't expect Obst to come into contention until 2007 and you can give a big PFFFT to Scott Stevens. I have a feeling if we do suffer kpp injuries Gibson may find himself playing a game sooner than expected.

Excellent call Springy and spot on the mark. We were extremely lucky last year with injuries to KPP and Bock's injury in the final v St Kilda showed how easily exposed we were.

I am hoping for perhaps another KPP in the PSD. Are there any left of any quality ?

[SpringChoke]

Excellent call Springy and spot on the mark. We were extremely lucky last year with injuries to KPP and Bock's injury in the final v St Kilda showed how easily exposed we were.

I am hoping for perhaps another KPP in the PSD. Are there any left of any quality ?

Not that I know of. If Norman wasn't such a head case I would have a crack at him for depth purposes.

[Kane McGoodwin]

You seriously don’t get it do you?

When you start telling everyone around you, they don't get it, you need to start to wonder who is not getting it... ;)

[Kane McGoodwin]

Not that I know of. If Norman wasn't such a head case I would have a crack at him for depth purposes.
Norman would at least be worth talking to, as he has some decent talent & would offer some KPP depth. I can't think of any better ready made KP available.

[outback jack]

When you start telling everyone around you, they don't get it, you need to start to wonder who is not getting it... ;)

if you use that logic not much would happen in the world.

[Stiffy_18]

Norman would at least be worth talking to, as he has some decent talent & would offer some KPP depth. I can't think of any better ready made KP available.
The problem is that he is Laurence Angwin the second.

There is more to being on the list than just being a footballer. His character has more holes than swiss cheese.

Carlton are crying out for tall defenders but they are happy to let him go. I wonder why ;)

[Kane McGoodwin]

The problem is that he is Laurence Angwin the second.

There is more to being on the list than just being a footballer. His character has more holes than swiss cheese.

Carlton are crying out for tall defenders but they are happy to let him go. I wonder why ;)
Sure, but some players have come good in another environment - eg. Martin Pyke.

[outback jack]

The problem is that he is Laurence Angwin the second.

There is more to being on the list than just being a footballer. His character has more holes than swiss cheese.

Carlton are crying out for tall defenders but they are happy to let him go. I wonder why ;)

wasnt he a ruck/ goal kicking forward? Anyway he looked too injury prone with his shoulders and light to be a gun. If he was going to be i'm sure he'd be on a list. Every player has some latitude depending on their talent up to a point i'd think. He either isnt as talented as some ppl say or was a very naughty boy.:cool:

[Kane McGoodwin]

if you use that logic not much would happen in the world.
Using your logic, everything would be out in left field. ;)

[outback jack]

Using your logic, everything would be out in left field. ;)
agree the world would be alot better

[Kane McGoodwin]

agree the world would be alot better
Definitely needed at times, but like everything, there needs to be a balanced equilibrium.

[outback jack]

Definitely needed at times, but like everything, there needs to be a balanced equilibrium.
yes true i was taking the pis$ actually. In terms of realistic theories balance is the key!

[Markthirtytwo]

yes true i was taking the pis$ actually. In terms of realistic theories balance is the key!


Getting a bit deep there Jack.

[Richard MacSellar]

Just got home from the cricket and I wanted to say that I'm pretty disappointed by the draft results. First of all, another Victorian with our first pick, haven’t we learnt our lesson? Pheiffer I am very pleased with, but then that all we did good in my book.

Bernie Vince? You have got to be joking. He played one good final and that justifies pick 32? I am positive he would have stayed for pick 48 or possibly even 62. What a poor pick. Obst may be alright, but we didn’t even pick Rischbieth? Or what about Sam Elliot, he was available. I rate him very highly.

In my book, another poor draft performance once again.
good post, drummond.

[Crow-mo]

Did you even bother to read my initial post? I said I would have been delighted with Rischbieth or Sam Elliot.

love these old threads :D

[Crow-mo]

FACT: Rischbeith and Elliot are much better prospects that Vince.

this has gotta hurt.

all good fun though. :)

[Drummond]

this has gotta hurt.

all good fun though. :)
:D

Elliot was dumped prematurely IMO. He could be another Porplyzia, so therefore you should have only bumped up this thread when he’s at least 23. :p

Rischbeith turned out to be nothing more than an athlete with minimal football ability, I was wrong on that one.

I still don’t think Vince will turn into anything substantial though.

[Crow-mo]

:D

Elliot was dumped prematurely IMO. He could be another Porplyzia, so therefore you should have only bumped up this thread when he’s at least 23. :p


I didn't bump it. and if he does a Porplyzia, then you should definitely be the one to bump it next time. :D

[SpringChoke]

:D

Elliot was dumped prematurely IMO. He could be another Porplyzia, so therefore you should have only bumped up this thread when he’s at least 23. :p

Rischbeith turned out to be nothing more than an athlete with minimal football ability, I was wrong on that one.

I still don’t think Vince will turn into anything substantial though.

I agree with this. I would be very suprised if Bernie Vince plays more than 50 games. Granted he has some special skills but for a small guy, he has limited leg speed.

[Stiffy_18]

I agree with this. I would be very suprised if Bernie Vince plays more than 50 games. Granted he has some special skills but for a small guy, he has limited leg speed.

So does Jason Porplyzia, so did Roger James...

Lack of leg speed can be off-set by pure football talent. A pure footballer with clean hands is always at least half a step ahead of his opponent ;)

[macca23]

So does Jason Porplyzia, so did Roger James...

Lack of leg speed can be off-set by pure football talent. A pure footballer with clean hands is always at least half a step ahead of his opponent ;)

Damn good point, Stiffmeister.

Roger James was not quick at all, but he was a class player who was the brains trust of Port's mid-field with his ability to read the play and superb disposal. :thumbsu:

[SpringChoke]

So does Jason Porplyzia, so did Roger James...

Lack of leg speed can be off-set by pure football talent. A pure footballer with clean hands is always at least half a step ahead of his opponent ;)

Fair call but is Vince a genuine midfielder prospect? I see him more as a small forward.

[Stiffy_18]

Fair call but is Vince a genuine midfielder prospect? I see him more as a small forward.
I can see him playing in the midfield. He definetly has the right football nous. He just needs to get his fitness up. Vince will be very good player if injuries can stay away.

[crowsarethebest]

Next year I want to inject some SPEED into our midfield. Most of our youngsters are pretty average in leg speed. Look at Essendon, They injected Houli, Jetta and Davey who all are speedy. Soon the AFL will be full of athletic type of players.

[Dandy_GO]

Elliot was dumped prematurely IMO

I agree with this. I think the kid had talent. Perhaps if last years draft was not so strong he may well have kept his place on the rookie list.
He's still very young though. It wouldn't surprise me if we did give him another chance.

[betterthanu]

Elliot was the year below me at school and he got best on ground as a yr 11 in the match between Sacred heart college vs Kilmore college (the 2 best football schools in Australia). Considering Danny Myer, Brad Sugars, Hinge, Tom Redden and Jack juniper (all been on AFL lists or rookie) were all in the same match plus however many kilmore player made it to the afl, it was obvious he could be a very good AFL player. Hopefully he comes on in the SANFL this year and we get him back porps style(also from SHC - no bragging ;) ).

Didnt he get 40 touches in a reserve game just before he got dropped from the rookie list????

[Wayne's-World]

I agree with this. I would be very suprised if Bernie Vince plays more than 50 games. Granted he has some special skills but for a small guy, he has limited leg speed.
SC I suggest you have a look in the NAB cup at players like Willitts, Hurne, and other second year players ......see how much better toned they are and how much quicker in leg speed and thinking than in their first season.

A full PS in their second year makes an enormous difference.

Look at Sugar Kane in his first season was slow and definately not quick enough for AFL ....second season, a different player.

Be patient he'll be a very good player ......when you hear reports of the AFC's future Vince is bracketed with the likes of Douglas, Knight, Maric ....so he has some real supporters within the club.

[Crow-mo]

Next year I want to inject some SPEED into our midfield. Most of our youngsters are pretty average in leg speed. Look at Essendon, They injected Houli, Jetta and Davey who all are speedy. Soon the AFL will be full of athletic type of players.

and they just lost to Carlton :D

Pace is overrated, as a singular attribute.