Post-Draft report card

[Weaver]

Carlton
Emerge with the highest rated midfielder (Murphy) and forward (Kennedy) which is all that can be expected with their picks. Both guys will play 10+ games next year which is a bonus. Blues will certainly have bragging rights over the Hawks and Pies for 3 years.

Bower and Edwards are more KP options so the only query will be whether the Blues paid enough attention to their centre square. If anything the Blues are beginning to look a bit top heavy.

Also beginning to get a large group of guys like Walker, Waite, Fisher etc who are not quite KP and not quite midfielders and Bower might be another.

Grade A - Getting All-Australian CHB to go with the Murphy and Kennedy is as good as you can do.


Hawthorn
A big change of tack for the Hawks. They have typically favoured old-fashioned footballers who can win their own footy over atheltic 'modern' types. With a lack of run in their team and plenty of grunt with the likes of Mitchell and Lewis they took a deep breath, held their noses and went for the receivers.

Birchall, Ellis, Muston and Tuck are the tall, light, outside players that Scott Clayton and the Dogs love to death. He must be looking enviously at Glenferrie at 'his' players.

Hawks also broke their long policy of not recruiting developing ruckmen by taking Bailey. Another big policy change.

Dowler is the big-ticket iteam in their picks. If he can make the grade then he Franklin and Roughhead shape as a solid group of big men.

Grade B - Injury queries over Muston and Dowler. Ellis playing schoolboys. Not the type of players that will immediately take to the Hawks gameplan. Can't quite give them an A.


Brisbane
Mitchell Clark has gone to the best club for him. If Barney can't get him playing good hard football then no one can. If Clark and Brennan can end up clicking and combining with Brown then that shapes as the best forward line in football. Patfull is plan B.

They needed someone to get ready to replace Michael and Leppitsch and Mills will suit them perfectly, if they can teach him to kick.

Hooper is a solid rover prospect and adds to a pretty tidy group of young midfielders that they are assembling.

Grade B - Filled gaps and still got best available. If Clark works they will win more premierships.


Melbourne
Got players that suit their system perfectly in Jones, Bartram and Neville. Dees love their high-possesion running HBFers and all three will be good chances to follow in that Tingay, Febey, Yze, Brown etc trend.

Buckley is a bit of a strange-fish but one mid-range gamble is always worth a chance.

Stuck to their policy of recruiting the bottom-age players with Batram, Neville and Jones all elligable to come back for another year of junior footy. It is perhaps a bit riskier than going for the top-age guys but the rewards can be greater.

Grade B - Got guys that suit their game plan.


Sydney
Considering the picks they had they have done very well.

They never go much for KP players and always like pace. Some clubs use pace to get the ball into space, Swans use theirs to get to contests and close games down. They will be overjoyed to get Laidlaw who suits them perfectly, super quick and loves to tackle.

Thornton is a quick wingman who will again suit them and although Brazabon didn't get to the Championships he did win the award as best player in the Colts and so is pretty solid value so late. Swans don't give games to first (or second) year midfielders so this group will take time, but all are good chances to be solid contributers.

Grade B - Got great value from rubbish picks and even got the player that suits them in Laidlaw.


Adelaide
Never famed for their draft efforts they look to have done well this year.

Douglas is a solid Edwards type who will come into the team in a year or two and add footy smarts to the side. Pfeiffer is perfect for the system based around the tall wingman type players who get from one end of the ground to the other.

Obst is not too flash but they need someone to train to replace Bassett. Vince is a bit of an unknown but the Crows have had a lot of success with the 20-somethings from the SANFL in the past.

Grade B - Look like they got great value from ordinary picks.


Richmond
Oakley-Nicholls and Casserley may not be the best footballers in the draft but they are probably the two players that best suit Wallace's idea of free running football played by atheltic wingmen. So on that score Richmond have done well getting the players that suit them.

A run on quick midfielders between picks 10 and 20ish suited Richmond perfectly with Hughes falling to them which addresses a huge need.

Grade B - A club that got the players they need for their gameplan.


Essendon
Pat Ryder should enjoy Essendon but joins a group of bigmen (Bradley, Laycock) who are not quite midfielders and not quite KP players either. Most of the Bombers bigmen have the "not-quite" tag which could be a concern going forward.

Lucy is a good monster defender, Neagle is a poor choice, Dempsey is an outside player they don't need and who hasn't liked up-tempo footy in the past.

Lonergan gives them some centre square grunt that they really need.

Grade C - Ryder is handy but maybe not what they need, then they lost it in the middle before getting Lonergan.


Kangaroos
Green in the short term, Riggio in the long term both shape as filling in for Archer or Colbert as the HBF who zones off and helps the taller defenders.

Swallow shapes as a late round bargain. You might need your wingers to kick beautifully but as Creswell and Simpson show it doesn't matter quite so much for a guy who is playing in the packs and getting you going foward. The Roos needed a genuine inside bloke and got one of the few available.

Hutchinson late suggests that Hale, McIntosh, Petrie and Moran is not the long-term answer to the Roos ruck woes.

Grade C - Swallow will suit the Shinboners, and Riggio fills a hole.


Collingwood
Took gamble after gamble after gamble. If they have gotten things right then they will get better quickly, but there has to be a big risk of them looking a bit 'brave' in a couple of years time.

Thomas is a HFF flattered by the quality of his junior side, and Pendlebury still has a lot of developing to do. Difficult to see how Egan and Pendlebury fit together in the one side. Danny Stanley is as tough as nails and Malthouse will love him even though he can't kick.

Considering their picks you'd think they would have been able to do quite a bit better and get some genuine building blocks for the future. In a year when most clubs avoided the TAC Cup players Collingwood bucked the trend and took all five picks from that comp. In fact they get 5 of the 25 TAC players picked up ... they must have liked the finals series a whole lot.

Grade C - All the players look like periphery players to me. No one to play in the spine or the centre square. They may all play, but they are passengers not drivers.


West Coast
At another club the drafting of Hurn, McKinlay and Spangher would be worth a B. At the Eagles it gets bumped down because the players don't really look a good fit with the Eagles.

Hurn would love playing on the SCG with the Swans but Subi will be a stretch and his chances of getting in the team ahead of Selwood, Butler and Waters are slim. Similarly Spangher is a CHB and is going to struggle with Glass, Hunter, Gaspar, Staker and Jones. Both guys have had OP and the hard WA grounds are going to give them nightmares.

McKinlay might make an impact if they play him at FF and clear out the 50, but the Eagles are probably trying to put the Matera days behind them and build a 'proper' forward line.

Grade C - can't get better by recruiting guys who won't get a game with you.


Western Bulldogs
Obviously think they are close to the finals and want to win now. Added Baird and Montgomery who should go straight into the team and give them a lot more grunt and muscle.

West is a good late round gamble. Genuine FF but the two knee surgeries and lack of competitive football is a worry. They won't care if he flops considering the pick they spent.

Addison is a Clayton special, don't expect to see him for a few years. Higgins is a good option to replace someone like Eagleton in time. Higgins will love the Doggies system.

Grade C - With two recyled players, a gamble like West and a project like Addison they are hard to judge.


Port Adelaide
Two long term ruck prospects in Minson and Giles which are always risky picks particularly because neither made it to under-18 championship level. Carlile a solid bodied fullback (big change from Gilham) who can't kick. Port certainly are not frightened of the mature bodied KP kids.

Lower is a good one, HBF with some dash and flair. Good height and leap and a good get at 30. Probably the only one who is a good chance of making the grade amongst this group.

Grade D - Any year you have to take 2 raw ruckmen is going to be a D year.


Geelong
Obviously didn't see too much they liked so looked to recruit some insurance. Stokes replaces Thurley, Owen understudies Steve Johnson and West comes in as the 4th ruckman to replace Chambers. Gamble is a ulity type.

All hinges on Varcoe for the Cats. If he plays then they have a bargain and the draft is a success. If he stays on the fringes well they have probably picked up 5 fringe players and the draft is a dud.

Grade D - Just looking for depth with a gamble on Varcoe getting right.


Fremantle
Quite why you would recruit Drum when you already have Mundy doesn't make much sense. Probably the one position they have covered for 10 years. Rob Warnock is a 5 year development project and even then he was beaten by Ryder effortlessly despite a 10cm edge in height. Ibbotson is a good solid squad player but probably not too much more and it is not as though the Dockers have a shortage of mid-paced ball winners in their midfield.

Grade E - Tried to have the minimum picks and obviously weren't that interested in the draft.


St Kilda
Saints are in premiership mode and obviously don't need heaps and don't have much in the way of picks to spend.

Rix is insurance for Blake who is insurance for Ackland, who is not really AFL quality. Gilbert is an uptempo clut figure in the making but won't get a game in the Saints defence for 3-4 years at least if ever. Similarly Raymond needs years in the gym and Sweeney is pure speculation but the Saints forward line is pretty crowded.

Grade E - Never going to get much with what they had so went outside the square.

[coasting]

Pretty harsh assessments on some of those lower grades, especially Fremantle. Drum and Ibbotson are both going to be pretty good AFL players.

[Pafloyul]

The Weaver has answered.;)

[Weaver]

Pretty harsh assessments on some of those lower grades, especially Fremantle. Drum and Ibbotson are both going to be pretty good AFL players.

Not everyone can get good marks, and anyway there are plenty of exams where getting a C is a good result. Fremantle didn't want to be there and hadn't studied :)

[Dog Town]

Appreciate someone who has seen alot of these guys putting there opinion out there even though you will obviously leave yourself open to criticism from opposition fans.

[HK_Bulldog]

:thumbsu: Enjoyed reading that. Thanks for your efforts.

Do you know much about Baird? Is he KPP height or 189cm? Apparently he grew 5-6cm in the past couple years.

[HBF]

Carlton
Emerge with the highest rated midfielder (Murphy) and forward (Kennedy) which is all that can be expected with their picks. Both guys will play 10+ games next year which is a bonus. Blues will certainly have bragging rights over the Hawks and Pies for 3 years.

Bower and Edwards are more KP options so the only query will be whether the Blues paid enough attention to their centre square. If anything the Blues are beginning to look a bit top heavy.

Also beginning to get a large group of guys like Walker, Waite, Fisher etc who are not quite KP and not quite midfielders and Bower might be another.

Grade A - Getting All-Australian CHB to go with the Murphy and Kennedy is as good as you can do.

[/I]

Great to hear that you think Carlton did well out of the draft. Just one query though, with Kennedy's shoulder reco, you still expect him to play 10+ games next year. I'm pretty sure I heard someone say he might not be ready to go until March, which would disrupt his preseason heavily.

[inferno66]

Fremantle
Quite why you would recruit Drum when you already have Mundy doesn't make much sense. Probably the one position they have covered for 10 years. Rob Warnock is a 5 year development project and even then he was beaten by Ryder effortlessly despite a 10cm edge in height. Ibbotson is a good solid squad player but probably not too much more and it is not as though the Dockers have a shortage of mid-paced ball winners in their midfield.


I think you are being too harsh on Freo. Ibbotson is a pacy midfield/half back player. I think Freo will be planning to play him in the midfield.
Warnock is a good pick up as we already got two ruckman in the team already. Warnock will have time to develop and put on weight.

Freo have the policy to take the best player available so thats why they would have picked Drum when we already have defenders. But posistions in junior footy dont set people in a single posistion for rest of there life. For all we know Freo could use Drum in the fowardline

[Tas]

Kangaroos
Green in the short term, Riggio in the long term both shape as filling in for Archer or Colbert as the HBF who zones off and helps the taller defenders.

Swallow shapes as a late round bargain. You might need your wingers to kick beautifully but as Creswell and Simpson show it doesn't matter quite so much for a guy who is playing in the packs and getting you going foward. The Roos needed a genuine inside bloke and got one of the few available.

Hutchinson late suggests that Hale, McIntosh, Petrie and Moran is not the long-term answer to the Roos ruck woes.

Grade C - Swallow will suit the Shinboners, and Riggio fills a hole.

It is a pretty fair assessment. Given the quality of the picks we had I am reasonably happy with the result.

I think with Hutchinson we are digging around in the coal to see if we find any diamonds, if not then it is no big deal.

[macca69]

Yeh you seem to be pretty harsh and not take into account the picks they had.

Carlton
Emerge with the highest rated midfielder (Murphy) and forward (Kennedy) which is all that can be expected with their picks. Both guys will play 10+ games next year which is a bonus. Blues will certainly have bragging rights over the Hawks and Pies for 3 years.

Bower and Edwards are more KP options so the only query will be whether the Blues paid enough attention to their centre square. If anything the Blues are beginning to look a bit top heavy.

Also beginning to get a large group of guys like Walker, Waite, Fisher etc who are not quite KP and not quite midfielders and Bower might be another.

Grade A - Getting All-Australian CHB to go with the Murphy and Kennedy is as good as you can do.

Can't argue with that.

Hawthorn
A big change of tack for the Hawks. They have typically favoured old-fashioned footballers who can win their own footy over atheltic 'modern' types. With a lack of run in their team and plenty of grunt with the likes of Mitchell and Lewis they took a deep breath, held their noses and went for the receivers.

Birchall, Ellis, Muston and Tuck are the tall, light, outside players that Scott Clayton and the Dogs love to death. He must be looking enviously at Glenferrie at 'his' players.

Hawks also broke their long policy of not recruiting developing ruckmen by taking Bailey. Another big policy change.

Dowler is the big-ticket iteam in their picks. If he can make the grade then he Franklin and Roughhead shape as a solid group of big men.

Grade B - Injury queries over Muston and Dowler. Ellis playing schoolboys. Not the type of players that will immediately take to the Hawks gameplan. Can't quite give them an A.

I would give them an A, as they aren't recruiting to win a premiership next year, but with these players, they will be a genuine threat in a few years.

Grade B+/A


Brisbane
Mitchell Clark has gone to the best club for him. If Barney can't get him playing good hard football then no one can. If Clark and Brennan can end up clicking and combining with Brown then that shapes as the best forward line in football. Patfull is plan B.

They needed someone to get ready to replace Michael and Leppitsch and Mills will suit them perfectly, if they can teach him to kick.

Hooper is a solid rover prospect and adds to a pretty tidy group of young midfielders that they are assembling.

Grade B - Filled gaps and still got best available. If Clark works they will win more premierships.
Grade B, if anything, seems to high, Clark is a huge risk, probably won't fill his potential, and if he does, chances are he will want to move back to WA. IMO will be very Similar to McDougal. Other players were ok, wont be a great draft for them.

Grade C+/B


Melbourne
Got players that suit their system perfectly in Jones, Bartram and Neville. Dees love their high-possesion running HBFers and all three will be good chances to follow in that Tingay, Febey, Yze, Brown etc trend.

Buckley is a bit of a strange-fish but one mid-range gamble is always worth a chance.

Stuck to their policy of recruiting the bottom-age players with Batram, Neville and Jones all elligable to come back for another year of junior footy. It is perhaps a bit riskier than going for the top-age guys but the rewards can be greater.

Grade B - Got guys that suit their game plan.

Yeh Grade B seems fair enough


Sydney
Considering the picks they had they have done very well.

They never go much for KP players and always like pace. Some clubs use pace to get the ball into space, Swans use theirs to get to contests and close games down. They will be overjoyed to get Laidlaw who suits them perfectly, super quick and loves to tackle.

Thornton is a quick wingman who will again suit them and although Brazabon didn't get to the Championships he did win the award as best player in the Colts and so is pretty solid value so late. Swans don't give games to first (or second) year midfielders so this group will take time, but all are good chances to be solid contributers.

Grade B - Got great value from rubbish picks and even got the player that suits them in Laidlaw.

Yeh they did pretty well, but I think they would have done better if they got players likely to get them a premiership soon. Laidlaw is almost match-ready, but IMO they should have gone with a KPP and a mature age recruit.

Grade C+/B


Adelaide
Never famed for their draft efforts they look to have done well this year.

Douglas is a solid Edwards type who will come into the team in a year or two and add footy smarts to the side. Pfeiffer is perfect for the system based around the tall wingman type players who get from one end of the ground to the other.

Obst is not too flash but they need someone to train to replace Bassett. Vince is a bit of an unknown but the Crows have had a lot of success with the 20-somethings from the SANFL in the past.

Grade B - Look like they got great value from ordinary picks.

Gee I haven't seen Vince play, but they have done very well with their other picks, Douglas, Pfeiffer and Obst will all be good players at AFL level. Also have very little go-home factor with 3 SA boys.

Grade B+/A


Richmond
Oakley-Nicholls and Casserley may not be the best footballers in the draft but they are probably the two players that best suit Wallace's idea of free running football played by atheltic wingmen. So on that score Richmond have done well getting the players that suit them.

A run on quick midfielders between picks 10 and 20ish suited Richmond perfectly with Hughes falling to them which addresses a huge need.

Grade B - A club that got the players they need for their gameplan.

Did very well, Oakley-Nicholls could be anything, although apparantly will want to go home. Casserly suits Richmonds gameplan, and would have been picked at 24, had Hughes not slipped that far.

Grade B+/A

[QUOTE=Weaver]
Essendon
Pat Ryder should enjoy Essendon but joins a group of bigmen (Bradley, Laycock) who are not quite midfielders and not quite KP players either. Most of the Bombers bigmen have the "not-quite" tag which could be a concern going forward.

Lucy is a good monster defender, Neagle is a poor choice, Dempsey is an outside player they don't need and who hasn't liked up-tempo footy in the past.

Lonergan gives them some centre square grunt that they really need.

Grade C - Ryder is handy but maybe not what they need, then they lost it in the middle before getting Lonergan.

Very harsh on Essendon, Ryder at 7 was a good pick. Dempsey at 19, was a little high, but could easily turn out to be a decent player. Don't quite know why Neagle was the wrong choice, he is a monster, and kicks a lot of goals, worth a 3rd rounder IMO. Lonergan is a very good pick and could easily play a fair few games next year. And with the AA FB with their last pick, that caps off a pretty good draft IMO.

Grade B+


Kangaroos
Green in the short term, Riggio in the long term both shape as filling in for Archer or Colbert as the HBF who zones off and helps the taller defenders.

Swallow shapes as a late round bargain. You might need your wingers to kick beautifully but as Creswell and Simpson show it doesn't matter quite so much for a guy who is playing in the packs and getting you going foward. The Roos needed a genuine inside bloke and got one of the few available.

Hutchinson late suggests that Hale, McIntosh, Petrie and Moran is not the long-term answer to the Roos ruck woes.

Grade C - Swallow will suit the Shinboners, and Riggio fills a hole.

Kangaroos seem to think their premiership window is now and have gone out and recruited some mature age players. Green and Baird join McConnell and Hay on the Kangaroos list as players ready to play AFL. Riggio and Swallow would not be out of their depth playing at AFL level next year eaither. Don't know about Huchison, but he adds to their ruck stocks.

Very hard to grade that, Brisbane went after some mature age recruits and it got them 3 premierships. Hawthorn and Richmond did that after 2001 and that didn't work for them at all. I think because the Kangaroos lack the quality of Voss, Aker etc I have a feeling it will be the latter.

Grade C


Collingwood
Took gamble after gamble after gamble. If they have gotten things right then they will get better quickly, but there has to be a big risk of them looking a bit 'brave' in a couple of years time.

Thomas is a HFF flattered by the quality of his junior side, and Pendlebury still has a lot of developing to do. Difficult to see how Egan and Pendlebury fit together in the one side. Danny Stanley is as tough as nails and Malthouse will love him even though he can't kick.

Considering their picks you'd think they would have been able to do quite a bit better and get some genuine building blocks for the future. In a year when most clubs avoided the TAC Cup players Collingwood bucked the trend and took all five picks from that comp. In fact they get 5 of the 25 TAC players picked up ... they must have liked the finals series a whole lot.

Grade C - All the players look like periphery players to me. No one to play in the spine or the centre square. They may all play, but they are passengers not drivers.

Their draft performance will all hinge on Pendlebury IMO. I think he will make it and their draft performance will look a whole lot better for it. Stanley at 21 is a steal, will play AFL next year and will be a good player if they fix up his disposal. Thomas at 2 was also way too high for my liking, will pan out very similat to Didak.

Grade C+/B


West Coast
At another club the drafting of Hurn, McKinlay and Spangher would be worth a B. At the Eagles it gets bumped down because the players don't really look a good fit with the Eagles.

Hurn would love playing on the SCG with the Swans but Subi will be a stretch and his chances of getting in the team ahead of Selwood, Butler and Waters are slim. Similarly Spangher is a CHB and is going to struggle with Glass, Hunter, Gaspar, Staker and Jones. Both guys have had OP and the hard WA grounds are going to give them nightmares.

McKinlay might make an impact if they play him at FF and clear out the 50, but the Eagles are probably trying to put the Matera days behind them and build a 'proper' forward line.

Grade C - can't get better by recruiting guys who won't get a game with you.

That last statement is a silly one. Hurn and McKinley are two of the most match ready draftees available. Hurn could play a few games on a HBF/BF. He will allow Waters to play forward, and will help cope with the losses of Banfield and Chick over the next couple of years. McKinley is another goal scoring option, now that Phil is gone. Smith looks to be coming along nicely, and probly wont be able to play in the same forwardline as Smith. But Smith is far from a sure thing, so insurance at FF, is a good move. We haven't got much depth in defence and Spangher is just that, a developing player that adds depth to defence. If he comes good at CHB, that would allow Hunter to play up forward.

Considering what we got after finishing 2nd, that is a very good return.

Grade B+/A


Western Bulldogs
Obviously think they are close to the finals and want to win now. Added Baird and Montgomery who should go straight into the team and give them a lot more grunt and muscle.

West is a good late round gamble. Genuine FF but the two knee surgeries and lack of competitive football is a worry. They won't care if he flops considering the pick they spent.

Addison is a Clayton special, don't expect to see him for a few years. Higgins is a good option to replace someone like Eagleton in time. Higgins will love the Doggies system.

Grade C - With two recyled players, a gamble like West and a project like Addison they are hard to judge.

Yeh they are quite hard to judge, but they did need some KPP, which they got, not sure how well they fared.

Grade C+


Port Adelaide
Two long term ruck prospects in Minson and Giles which are always risky picks particularly because neither made it to under-18 championship level. Carlile a solid bodied fullback (big change from Gilham) who can't kick. Port certainly are not frightened of the mature bodied KP kids.

Lower is a good one, HBF with some dash and flair. Good height and leap and a good get at 30. Probably the only one who is a good chance of making the grade amongst this group.

Grade D - Any year you have to take 2 raw ruckmen is going to be a D year.

Just because they got 2 rucks, it doesn't automatically mean its a bad draft, they were drafted with low picks, after picking Lower and Carlile.

Grade C


Geelong
Obviously didn't see too much they liked so looked to recruit some insurance. Stokes replaces Thurley, Owen understudies Steve Johnson and West comes in as the 4th ruckman to replace Chambers. Gamble is a ulity type.

All hinges on Varcoe for the Cats. If he plays then they have a bargain and the draft is a success. If he stays on the fringes well they have probably picked up 5 fringe players and the draft is a dud.

Grade D - Just looking for depth with a gamble on Varcoe getting right.


Chances are the gamble on Varcoe will pay off. If he does, then thats just about an automatic A for the Cats. After Varcoe, not too mcuh happened, just picked fairly mature age players by position, as they want almost immediate results.

Grade B


Fremantle
Quite why you would recruit Drum when you already have Mundy doesn't make much sense. Probably the one position they have covered for 10 years. Rob Warnock is a 5 year development project and even then he was beaten by Ryder effortlessly despite a 10cm edge in height. Ibbotson is a good solid squad player but probably not too much more and it is not as though the Dockers have a shortage of mid-paced ball winners in their midfield.

Grade E - Tried to have the minimum picks and obviously weren't that interested in the draft.

Yeh was a poor draft by Freo.

Grade D


St Kilda
Saints are in premiership mode and obviously don't need heaps and don't have much in the way of picks to spend.

Rix is insurance for Blake who is insurance for Ackland, who is not really AFL quality. Gilbert is an uptempo clut figure in the making but won't get a game in the Saints defence for 3-4 years at least if ever. Similarly Raymond needs years in the gym and Sweeney is pure speculation but the Saints forward line is pretty crowded.

Grade E - Never going to get much with what they had so went outside the square.

Saints draft could look alright in a couple of years. Rix is a dud. Although the other picks were pretty good. Wouldn;t surprise me if Gilbert got a game or 2 this year, strongly built defender, if Stone got a few games last year, he should get a few this year.

Grade C.

[- PC -]

Thank you for that Weaver.

It will be good to look back on some of these. Great report:thumbsu:

[Eagle87]

Originally Posted by Weaver
West Coast
At another club the drafting of Hurn, McKinlay and Spangher would be worth a B. At the Eagles it gets bumped down because the players don't really look a good fit with the Eagles.

Hurn would love playing on the SCG with the Swans but Subi will be a stretch and his chances of getting in the team ahead of Selwood, Butler and Waters are slim. Similarly Spangher is a CHB and is going to struggle with Glass, Hunter, Gaspar, Staker and Jones. Both guys have had OP and the hard WA grounds are going to give them nightmares.

McKinlay might make an impact if they play him at FF and clear out the 50, but the Eagles are probably trying to put the Matera days behind them and build a 'proper' forward line.

Grade C - can't get better by recruiting guys who won't get a game with you.

Well Weaver this is about the silliest effort I have seen!

The Eagles did not draft Hurn as a midfielder (he wasn't even picked there in the AA under-18's). This year we played Banfield (32) and Chick (30) as small/medium defenders who could handle an opponent physically. We even used Fletcher down back late in the season and in the finals. You don't think a physically strong, long-kicking guy who is footy smart and has excellent charachter can play down back for us? I am also unsure what the Subi reference is all about - speed wise he was middle of the pack (check the draft camp results), so he isn't slow. Endurance wise, he has never done a pre-season (due to cricket), so we can't really judge but as a non-midfielder he will be fine anyway. He did manage 24 possessions (& 10 marks) at the under-18's (v Vic-Metro) in his 3rd outing in 6 days, so I suspect he is ok. Getting a player like Hurn, who is ready to play straight away, when you have your first pick at 13 is a grade A result.

McKinley has been compared to Robertson and kicked 70 goals in TAC and 12 in 3 games at the under-18's. He is a medium sized marking forward (like Robertson) and can take a mark. The Eagles have lacked a medium sized forward, who can take a mark, since Brett Heady retired. We have talls (who havent been great) and smalls and nothing in between. Picking at 29, you are unlikely to get a KPP who can help anytime soon, so getting a mid-size who can mark and kick goals is a pretty good "need based" pick up.

Spangher at 34 is a bit of a punt but unlike your good self I believe it addresses a need. Our only proven "tall" defender is Glass (at 192), Hunter is undersized and would be better as a third tall (or a forward!), Gaspar has never stayed fit more than 5 minutes and is on a 1 year deal, Jones remains unproven (largely) and is 188. If he comes off, we have an athletic KPP who would be our tallest defender.

How that draft amounts to a 'C', taking into account need and draft position is beyond me?

It was so far off, I almost thought it was a troll...

Cheers. :)

[morgoth]

Weaver are you sure you have got the right Stanley, cos everyone else rates his kicking:

DANNY STANLEY No. 21 (Geelong Falcons) 17yo 186cm 89kg Defender who plays with a physical presence and is strong overhead. Lovely long kick and excels in one-on-one situations. Classes himself as a "hard inside player, half-back or midfield".

Source; The Age.

[macca69]

Weaver are you sure you have got the right Stanley, cos everyone else rates his kicking:

DANNY STANLEY No. 21 (Geelong Falcons) 17yo 186cm 89kg Defender who plays with a physical presence and is strong overhead. Lovely long kick and excels in one-on-one situations. Classes himself as a "hard inside player, half-back or midfield".

Source; The Age.

Nah Weaver has that right, he is quite a poor kick at times.

[theorangeapple]

Damn Weaver, pretty harsh on us IMO.

We have a policy of picking the best available, in terms of our picks, I think we did extremely well.

You cant penalise us because we have a strong list and these blokes wont get a game. Would we have come out on top if we drafted 3 KPP forwards even though they were duds?

[Capitalist]

weaver - just a question

are you rating on what they have picked up or what they picked up with their particular picks ?

for instance does Carlton get A+ simply cause they had the best picks therefore getting the best players ?

[coasting]

Yeah Weaver, how can you give us a C when we got a player at 13 you had at 4 in your phantom draft? Surely we should get an A for that alone by your own logic.

[tiger of old]

Did very well, Oakley-Nicholls could be anything, although apparantly will want to go home. .
Did this come straight out of the Horse,s mouth?

[Blue Boyz]

[QUOTE=Weaver]Carlton


.........Bower and Edwards are more KP options so the only query will be whether the Blues paid enough attention to their centre square. If anything the Blues are beginning to look a bit top heavy.


Being a little top heavy especially in the back half would be a welcome change from all the Carlton midgets that have been masquerading as "tall" defenders for the past 3-4 years.

We have really struggled against any team that has more two tall forward options and the smart coaches usually push their ruckman forward to make the problem worse.

[Weaver]

weaver - just a question

are you rating on what they have picked up or what they picked up with their particular picks ?

for instance does Carlton get A+ simply cause they had the best picks therefore getting the best players ?

Both. I like the way teams like Melbourne and the Swans used their picks even though they didn't necessarily get guns. Equally am not as excited by the way Collingwood used theirs even though they might have gotten better players.

[Weaver]

You cant penalise us because we have a strong list and these blokes wont get a game. Would we have come out on top if we drafted 3 KPP forwards even though they were duds?

Of couse I can penalise you :) . As good a pick as McConnell was he wasn't going to get a game with you as long as Embley was there. Similarly I think Hurn and Spangher are going to be caught in a queue.

I don't think you took a step to improve your best-22. That is a C in my book.

[coasting]

I don't think you took a step to improve your best-22. That is a C in my book.

Maybe not immediately but then again, what club did? Draft picks are for the future. Banfield and Chick don't have much left in the tank. Hurn is going to be taking over one of these guys roles in the very near future.

[TheGeneral]

Carlton
Emerge with the highest rated midfielder (Murphy) and forward (Kennedy) which is all that can be expected with their picks. Both guys will play 10+ games next year which is a bonus. Blues will certainly have bragging rights over the Hawks and Pies for 3 years.

Bower and Edwards are more KP options so the only query will be whether the Blues paid enough attention to their centre square. If anything the Blues are beginning to look a bit top heavy.

Also beginning to get a large group of guys like Walker, Waite, Fisher etc who are not quite KP and not quite midfielders and Bower might be another.

Grade A - Getting All-Australian CHB to go with the Murphy and Kennedy is as good as you can do.
As other's have mentioned we won't be top heavy because we've struggled to cover the opposition's talls.If you would have said to Hughes he would have had the choice of the best midfielders and the best talls he would have gone home happy with those two.:thumbsu:

To get the AA CHB at 20 is a huge bonus and addresses our needs more any pick following that.If Lance and Fev are shown the door this will cover their loss and I'm rapt to get the equivalent of Roughead and Franklin this year.

As for midfielders Murphy, Blackwell and potentially Sheldon will address this weakness.

[theorangeapple]

I don't think you took a step to improve your best-22. That is a C in my book.


Alright then, how could we improve our list???

At pick 13, a tall might have been nice and if one of the top 4 talls had slipped then I think we would have taken them. But they didnt. I would prefer a bloke like Hurn who will be an AFL player to a guy like Birchall who is a tall midfielder who is hit and miss. He isnt even a KPP anyway. I think we here holding out for Bower at 29, he wasnt worth 13. Given our picks, I dont think we could have done much better even if we did draft on needs basis.

[windsock]

Kangaroos seem to think their premiership window is now and have gone out and recruited some mature age players. Green and Baird join McConnell and Hay on the Kangaroos list as players ready to play AFL. Riggio and Swallow would not be out of their depth playing at AFL level next year eaither. Don't know about Huchison, but he adds to their ruck stocks.

Very hard to grade that, Brisbane went after some mature age recruits and it got them 3 premierships. Hawthorn and Richmond did that after 2001 and that didn't work for them at all. I think because the Kangaroos lack the quality of Voss, Aker etc I have a feeling it will be the latter.

Grade C



Pretty hard to take you seriously when you think we drafted Baird and don't even know one of the four players we picked up!

[mattyc2422]

Good work Weaver. Looking foward to your work come rookie time.

Looks like you are going to get a lot of questions in this thread, but how did you rate Bailey in relation to the other ruckmen?

[Unwritten_Law]

In a year when most clubs avoided the TAC Cup players Collingwood bucked the trend and took all five picks from that comp. In fact they get 5 of the 25 TAC players picked up ... they must have liked the finals series a whole lot.

Mackie is the only South Australian we have drafted since 99, this year we took 3 :eek:

[blumfieldisback]

Not everyone can get good marks, and anyway there are plenty of exams where getting a C is a good result. Fremantle didn't want to be there and hadn't studied :)


essendon drafted 3 out of 4 all australians and they get a C, a team of athletic talls will mean they can dominate the air. with todays flooding ryder, Bradley and hille could push back to create 3 focal points that the back 6 could kick to providing huge link up to Lloyd and Lucas like the reiwoldts and Tarrants provide for there teams.

Demspey is a tallish midfielder who along with Andrew Lovett will provide some major headaches for opposition coaches. Hey i would have prefered stanley then dempsey but who cares we needed pace and we got it.

combined with campo and heff we will be up and running come 2006.

[Weaver]

Looks like you are going to get a lot of questions in this thread, but how did you rate Bailey in relation to the other ruckmen?

Didn't see him play so can't say. Must be highly regarded to make the Hawks take a ruckman. Must be at least as good as Brett O'Farrell or David Loats.:)

[tashibatts]

Green and Baird

Baird was drafted by the dogs, not north.. AFLs mistake..

Go Roos

[mattyc2422]

Didn't see him play so can't say. Must be highly regarded to make the Hawks take a ruckman. Must be at least as good as Brett O'Farrell or David Loats.:)
Crawshay, Simon. ;)

[LukeHodge15]

Didn't see him play so can't say. Must be highly regarded to make the Hawks take a ruckman. Must be at least as good as Brett O'Farrell or David Loats.:)

please dont bring back those memorys weaver:eek:

no 1 ranked ruckman on many clubs boards, so 18 a fair price u would think. happy we addressed our rucking problem, talk that we will also rookie another in the upcoming draft. need 4-5 ruckman on ur list imo

[goalpie]

Anybody who thinks Thomas is a passenger must be a complete ********er or has been sniffing to much glue.

[TheGeneral]

Anybody who thinks Thomas is a passenger must be a complete ********er or has been sniffing to much glue.
It's just that he goes to the same stylist at Houlihan and Gary Ablett Jnr.;) :p

[macca69]

Pretty hard to take you seriously when you think we drafted Baird and don't even know one of the four players we picked up!

My bad, I read on afl.com.au that you guys picked up Baird. Do you really think a player picked up at 69, can change the grade of the other 3 players picked? If so he would have to one of the best players picked at 65+ ever. Would like to hear your opinion in how you thought the Kangaroos did.

[Weaver]

Anybody who thinks Thomas is a passenger must be a complete ********er or has been sniffing to much glue.

All HFFers are passengers. It comes with the job description.

[marcy8811]

Fremantle
Quite why you would recruit Drum when you already have Mundy doesn't make much sense. Probably the one position they have covered for 10 years. Rob Warnock is a 5 year development project and even then he was beaten by Ryder effortlessly despite a 10cm edge in height. Ibbotson is a good solid squad player but probably not too much more and it is not as though the Dockers have a shortage of mid-paced ball winners in their midfield.



Hi Weaver. I cant say I agree or disagree with you as I don't really know much about some of these guys. I had the same queries over drum as yourself ie. his best position was already filled by Mundy. However it should be noted that Mundy, since being drafted has grown a few cm. On the official site, he is list as 191cm, from another source I was told he was infact taller than Pavlich now which would make him a very capable key position player in the future, perhaps capable of taking full back? So in regards to Drum, there is not doubt that he is a good player. It looks like he will get to develope into the position he is most capable of playing in while Mundy may take on a new role.

In regards to Ibbotson, I didnt see him ranked in any phantom drafts except perhaps your own. Footydraft didnt have him listed. He was a bit off the planet in terms of what people knew about him. Hes very bottom aged and is a year younger than most of the other drafties. CC was quoted as seeing him as a medium defender, midfield, winger type.

Warnock, well I know nothing. A lot of people here dont really rate him so on first impression, I was disappointed that we bypassed Swallow. But than, I dont know how many people on BF are actually experts, rather part time enthusiasts. I'll trust our recruiters over the people on these boards in most cases. Besides, its not as if he is going to play for a few years yet.

Now lastly, if Fremantle hadnt prepared for this draft, than they may have just gone with popular opinion and drafted Swallow as everyone suggested they do. Obviously they feel there are flaws in in Swallows game, yet if they hadn't put in the research, they probably would have drafted him at 10 like everyone suggested Freo do.

Anyway, cheers

[carn_the_cattas]

Geelong
Obviously didn't see too much they liked so looked to recruit some insurance. Stokes replaces Thurley, Owen understudies Steve Johnson and West comes in as the 4th ruckman to replace Chambers. Gamble is a ulity type.

All hinges on Varcoe for the Cats. If he plays then they have a bargain and the draft is a success. If he stays on the fringes well they have probably picked up 5 fringe players and the draft is a dud.

Grade D - Just looking for depth with a gamble on Varcoe getting right.

[/I]

This draft didn't really have much to offer the Cats.

I think that Geelong decided to go with depth (as you said) and speed.
Selecting Varcoe is a bit of a gamble but if he comes good he could be one of top Aboriginal players.
Selecting Trent West was a safe option. Its always good to have 4 ruckmen on your list. Blake will need a partner for the future.
Owen, Stokes and Gamble could become some real gems. Geelong always seem to have good luck selecting picks in the 3o's and 40's.

[Pharaoh]

Grade B - Injury queries over Muston and Dowler. Ellis playing schoolboys. Not the type of players that will immediately take to the Hawks gameplan. Can't quite give them an A

Always respected you Weaver, but your assessment of Hawthorn seems cynical, churlish and almost bordering on biased. Are you perhaps miffed that the Tigers had so few picks this year? Are you disappointed that we got Dowler, given that the Tigers clearly wanted him at 8?

We now have an amazing mix of hard bodied ball winners, tall quick receivers with great disposal by foot, a variety of talented young KPP options and developing ruckmen. In relation to the injuries, I'll back our medical and fitness guys' risk assessments over yours any day of the week. Not exactly sure what you think the Hawks could have done to improve our drafting performance - personally, I thought it was just about perfect. As for these players 'immediately taking to the Hawks gameplan', I would hate to think we would take such a short-sighted approach to drafting.

Moving on to your more flattering assessment of Richmond, Oakley-Nicholls may have talent but I would have thought that a player like Marcus Drum would have better suited your needs, given your obvious dearth of talent in the backline and your aging KPPs. Hurn would also have injected a more steel and strength into your line-up. JON seems like quite a risk at 8 to me. Very lucky Hughes was still available in the 20's, otherwise you would have taken Casserley with your second pick according to Miller.

[windsock]

My bad, I read on afl.com.au that you guys picked up Baird. Do you really think a player picked up at 69, can change the grade of the other 3 players picked? If so he would have to one of the best players picked at 65+ ever. Would like to hear your opinion in how you thought the Kangaroos did.

I know very little about any of the kids because I haven't seen any of them in the flesh. I'd want to see them play more than once or twice before I publicly grade the work of recruiters who have probably seen some of the kids they've drafted upwards of a dozen or so times. Fair enough to say "I'd have taken Ryder at 1" etc etc, but to give blokes like Stibbard, Wells and Beveridge ratings is a bit rude if you don't know your stuff.

[theorangeapple]

Hi Weaver. I cant say I agree or disagree with you as I don't really know much about some of these guys. I had the same queries over drum as yourself ie. his best position was already filled by Mundy. However it should be noted that Mundy, since being drafted has grown a few cm. On the official site, he is list as 191cm, from another source I was told he was infact taller than Pavlich now which would make him a very capable key position player in the future, perhaps capable of taking full back? So in regards to Drum, there is not doubt that he is a good player. It looks like he will get to develope into the position he is most capable of playing in while Mundy may take on a new role.



Even at 191cm, I still think Mundy is best suited to the 3rd tall role. He does well zoning off and providing an option. He would be wasted playing deep in defence where his sole responsibility would be to a man. Besides, I am not sure he is overly good in those one-on-one duels. He does bear a striking resemblence to Drum (in his description at least). I think one of them could play further up the ground.

[Weaver]

Always respected you Weaver, but your assessment of Hawthorn seems cynical, churlish and almost bordering on biased. Are you perhaps miffed that the Tigers had so few picks this year? Are you disappointed that we got Dowler, given that the Tigers clearly wanted him at 8?

In everything I have posted I have said that I would take Hughes ahead of Dowler.

I don't feel that I have been anti-Hawthorn at all. Hawthorn have long prided themselves on having tough guys who can win their own footy. The Hawks love their Condon, Lekkas, Collins guys and in some ways Cam Brown is the model Hawk.

Saying that the Hawks have had to go out and recruit a batch of running receivers and that they are probably uncomfortable about it is no insult. I would guess that plenty of the Hawks brainstrust are moaning about the state of modern football and all the athletes that are in it.

We now have an amazing mix of hard bodied ball winners, tall quick receivers with great disposal by foot, a variety of talented young KPP options and developing ruckmen.

Yeah, never said any different. Doesn't change the fact that going for the light outside players is a change in tack for the Hawks, and probably not the type of move that sits comfortably with their culture.

In relation to the injuries, I'll back our medical and fitness guys' risk assessments over yours any day of the week.

Doesn't change the fact that in Dowler and Muston you went for two of the injury concerns. Nothing wrong with that, just means that it is a bit more of a gamble.

Not exactly sure what you think the Hawks could have done to improve our drafting performance - personally, I thought it was just about perfect.

As I said. You did exactly what you had to. Got exactly the players you needed to. Doesn't mean that it is necessarily going to pay dividends.

As for these players 'immediately taking to the Hawks gameplan', I would hate to think we would take such a short-sighted approach to drafting.

If those kids had gone to the Dogs they would have understood the gameplan immediately and the team is built to use them. Going to the Hawks is going to be a bit tougher for them. Again not a criticism, just a suggestion that they are going to have a few more growing pains.

Similar to Tim Clarke taking quite a while to come around to the Hawthorn way in contrast to someone like Lewis who takes to it immediately.

Moving on to your more flattering assessment of Richmond,


I rated Hawthorn higher than Richmond didn't I?

Oakley-Nicholls may have talent but I would have thought that a player like Marcus Drum would have better suited your needs, given your obvious dearth of talent in the backline and your aging KPPs.

Marcus Drum in not a KPP he is a HBF. If you are going to recruit a HBF then you might as well go for a 'proper' one like O-N instead of making do with a Lonie or Drum.

Hurn would also have injected a more steel and strength into your line-up.

Hurn would have injected steel into the team but wouldn't have suited the game plan. Not quick enough, or mobile enough for the way we play.

JON seems like quite a risk at 8 to me.

For 10-12 clubs he would be, but he is exactly the sort of player that our gameplan needs. We will have the quickest midfield in the comp with 2-3 drafts.

Very lucky Hughes was still available in the 20's, otherwise you would have taken Casserley with your second pick according to Miller.

Yes and no. Once the early picks had been used on talls the same clubs (Collingwood, Hawks) picked again and had to go for pace. Always a good chance that Bower or Hughes would be available if they slipped past the first grab for big blokes.

[macca69]

I know very little about any of the kids because I haven't seen any of them in the flesh. I'd want to see them play more than once or twice before I publicly grade the work of recruiters who have probably seen some of the kids they've drafted upwards of a dozen or so times. Fair enough to say "I'd have taken Ryder at 1" etc etc, but to give blokes like Stibbard, Wells and Beveridge ratings is a bit rude if you don't know your stuff.

I'm by no means pretending to know more than the kanga's recruiters, just questioning their strategy. I'd say with the picks you had available you did pretty well, Riggio will be a good player if he gets his attitude right. Swallow could also be a good player if he gets his kicking right. The main reason the mark I gave was lowish was because of your mature age recruiting selections. More of a reflection on Laidley if anything, don't think you guys have the personel available to win a premiership, but laidley obviously does. As I said before we have seen that stategy work with Brisbane, but more often than not, it soesn't work, Richmond and Hawthorn of 2001 are prime examples. From memory you guys did the same thing last year too. Thompson and Pratt I remember. So thats two years in a row without 1st round selections. Now I know you have a few decent youngsters coming through in Jones, Trotter, Grima etc, but I would invest more in youth otherwise in a couple of years, you will need to start rebuilding, like Richmond and Hawthorn have needed to. I think Laidley is a good coach, but unless he has been given an ultimatum by the board to get instant success, I question his thought process. Sydney and Brisbane are the only teams who have successfully gone for recycled players and had it work in recent times. The other top teams at the moment have got early picks and backed their recruiters to get the job done, West Coast, St Kilda and Geelong all come to mind, amd they will be successfull for the next 5 or so years.

[Weaver]

The main reason the mark I gave was lowish was because of your mature age recruiting selections. More of a reflection on Laidley if anything, don't think you guys have the personel available to win a premiership, but laidley obviously does.

Different debate but I think that the Kangas, like Sydney, don't feel that they can spend too long on the bottom.

They do seem to have taken on the philosophy of why use a pick to give you a 10% (?) chance of getting an All-Australian fullback when you can trade for one and be 90% certain of getting what you paid for.

I suspect that they philosphically are not too keen on the draft. Over the last 7 drafts they haven't gotten too many first-18 players via that route. Their top-40 picks have probably only yielded Harris, Rawlings, Petrie, Wells and Hale.

Instead they have built their teams via trade.

Different approach, but at least they have a consistant approach. They like to take experienced guys with the edges already knocked off.

[evo]

Very fair assessments Weaver bar one club.

I have to agree with the posters that are giving you heat about the West Coasts picks.

Call me old school, but I reckon first and foremost any assessment of how well a club did with their choices should consider who was available at each repsective pick and who did they use that pick on.

Alot of clubs these days get too carried away with picking for needs and gameplans or trying to outsmart the others when the best available is staring them in the face.The pies in this draft were a prime example.

On that criteria West Coast did exceedingly well in my view.The 3 they picked were exactly the same players I would've picked given the same circumstances.In the end thats all you can ask of your recruiting staff IMO.

To say none of the players they chose won't improve the 22 in 2 or 3 years is folly.Hurn and McKinley in particular have genuine AFL player written all over them.

Anytime Woodhouse wants to mosie on down to Punt Road for job he's more than welcome.:)

BTW.It can't be much fun being the recruiting staff at North or Sydney this season.

[Pharaoh]

I rated Hawthorn higher than Richmond didn't I?

No, you rated both clubs on par (B), which is pretty absurd given the talent we've picked up. Let's face it, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder regarding the Hawks. As a case in point, look at your earlier reply to a question about Max Bailey (the jibe about O'Farrell and Loats). This is not an isolated observation - its based on my reading of your posts across the board. I recognise that a healthy rivalry is developing between the Hawks and Tigers given our similar stages of development, but I think it's affecting your judgement.

Carlton gets an A for recruitment with picks 1 and 4 (no brainers), yet Hawthorn gets a B for 5 great picks in the top 22 + Travis Tuck? Pleeeaaaase.

Marcus Drum not as good a HBF as Oakley Nicholls? I'd be surprised if many others agreed with you on this one. He may be 2 cm below pure KPP height but he's still likely to be an excellent defender in the Paul Roos mould.

Let's see how well the Tigers' game plan works in a couple of years when you've run out of defenders and no longer have Matty Richardson. Probably about as well as the past couple of decades. Now that the priority pick has effectively gone, the Tigers will struggle to fill enough holes to win a premiership with your current list.

[Weaver]

No, you rated both clubs on par (B),

No I didn't.

which is pretty absurd given the talent we've picked up. Let's face it, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder regarding the Hawks.

Nope. You are paranoid.

As a case in point, look at your earlier reply to a question about Max Bailey (the jibe about O'Farrell and Loats).

That was reply to Matty, he and I have shared a few friendly jokes.

This is not an isolated observation - its based on my reading of your posts across the board. I recognise that a healthy rivalry is developing between the Hawks and Tigers given our similar stages of development, but I think it's affecting your judgement.

No rivalry in my mind. Going in completely different directions. Perhaps a few ultra-defensive posters out there.

Carlton gets an A for recruitment with picks 1 and 4 (no brainers), yet Hawthorn gets a B for 5 great picks in the top 22 + Travis Tuck? Pleeeaaaase.

Explained this already.

Marcus Drum not as good a HBF as Oakley Nicholls? I'd be surprised if many others agreed with you on this one. He may be 2 cm below pure KPP height but he's still likely to be an excellent defender in the Paul Roos mould.

He is Mark Graham reborn. He will be a 3rd defender whose main weapon will be his counter-attacking running of half-back. If you are going to go for a counter-attacking running half-back then you might as well go all the way and go for someone like Cornes who has midfielder ability.

Let's see how well the Tigers' game plan works in a couple of years when you've run out of defenders and no longer have Matty Richardson. Probably about as well as the past couple of decades.

QUite probably. Never said I liked the gameplan, but at least I recognise and see that we are recuting to build on it. Personally I'd far prefer that we play like the Roos, but seeing as we are not there is no point in recruiting Hurn or Drum.

Now that the priority pick has effectively gone, the Tigers will struggle to fill enough holes to win a premiership with your current list.

Hawks supporter waving priority picks around :o

[Coughlan]

No, you rated both clubs on par (B), which is pretty absurd given the talent we've picked up. Let's face it, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder regarding the Hawks. As a case in point, look at your earlier reply to a question about Max Bailey (the jibe about O'Farrell and Loats). This is not an isolated observation - its based on my reading of your posts across the board. I recognise that a healthy rivalry is developing between the Hawks and Tigers given our similar stages of development, but I think it's affecting your judgement.

Carlton gets an A for recruitment with picks 1 and 4 (no brainers), yet Hawthorn gets a B for 5 great picks in the top 22 + Travis Tuck? Pleeeaaaase.

Marcus Drum not as good a HBF as Oakley Nicholls? I'd be surprised if many others agreed with you on this one. He may be 2 cm below pure KPP height but he's still likely to be an excellent defender in the Paul Roos mould.

Let's see how well the Tigers' game plan works in a couple of years when you've run out of defenders and no longer have Matty Richardson. Probably about as well as the past couple of decades. Now that the priority pick has effectively gone, the Tigers will struggle to fill enough holes to win a premiership with your current list.
Your being a bit defensive and sensative here i think.
sure weaver knows what he is talking about and he did not once bad mouth the hawks picks so i dont really know what u are having a sook about here and even if he did who gives a crap its not going to make any difference at all to there future

[Embers]

Weaver, what a poor assumption of West Coast, Hurn could play for Banfield almost instantly, the guy has never participated in a pre season of any form and will improve, he could be playing next year for sure. McKinley there is a huge place for him, he is a small forward but he takes contested grabs hence the similiar to Robertson rather then the similiar to Milne. We are looking for his type.

Spanagher is a long term prospect, he had OP (which isnt made worse by hard grounds, where did you pull that from) but wont be needed to play for 2 years, he will know that, We have only had 2 people in 18 years leave for homesickness, its silly to think that its all of a sudden definetly gonna happen again.

You may think your an expert, but in the end a very poor troll that was.

[blaisee]

No, you rated both clubs on par (B), which is pretty absurd given the talent we've picked up. Let's face it, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder regarding the Hawks. .


Buddy you are fighting way out of your depth here mate!

Weaver has posts since 2001, I suggest you check his record. To say he is biased towards the tigers is ridiculous. You wont find a harsher yet honest appraisal of them anywhere.

Geez some if you guys are so defensive:eek:

[The Old Dark Navy's]

You may think your an expert, but in the end a very poor troll that was.He posted opinions about 16 clubs and because you disagree with one those opinions, you think it must be a troll? If he was trolling, he would only have commented on the Eagles and even then in a bit more of a negative light than what he wrote. Trolls generally don't try to explain their opinions and/or they have a history of singling out that team.

You are wrong on this one.

[Pharaoh]

No I didn't.

Oh, you didn't rank Hawthorn and Richmond equal on Grade B? I'm sorry, my eyes must be playing tricks on me.

Perhaps you should go back and read your thinly veiled, back-handed grudging review of Hawthorn's drafting and then tell me again you're not biased...

''A big change of tack for the Hawks.... Birchall, Ellis, Muston and Tuck are the tall, light, outside players that Scott Clayton and the Dogs love to death. He must be looking enviously at Glenferrie at 'his' players.'

Backhanded swipe at both our drafting and the Bulldogs. You don't think players like Steven Greene, Nathan Lonie, Clinton Young and Rick Ladson were/are light receivers? What about Michael Tuck, Russell Greene and Buckenara himself - this so-called change of policy is just bollocks. The likes of Luke Power, Dal Santo and Embley all seem to be doing OK despite being 'light outside players'.

'...they took a deep breath, held their noses and went for the receivers.'

Oh yeah, nothing condescending in that statement.

Hawks also broke their long policy of not recruiting developing ruckmen by taking Bailey. Another big policy change.

We've drafted plenty of developing ruckmen, but few of them have come on in recent years. That's bad luck or bad talent identification - it has nothing to do with policy.

'Dowler is the big-ticket item in their picks. If he can make the grade then he Franklin and Roughhead shape as a solid group of big men.'

Thanks for the great compliment - pompous and condescending.

Grade B - Injury queries over Muston and Dowler.

Injury concerns over Dowler didn't seem to deter Greg Miller's interest. He must be wrong too.

Ellis playing schoolboys.

So did Luke Ball. Do you think we're trying to win a premiership next year?? Ridiculous comment.

Not the type of players that will immediately take to the Hawks gameplan. Can't quite give them an A.

Maybe you haven't been watching our 'gameplan' lately, but this is also crap. These guys will slot right in. Mark my words - in 3-5 years you will be eating your own condescending words.

The West Coast guys are right. This thread is a troll, regardless of how much Weaver is revered by others on this board. If you're going to put yourself up as an expert then you better be prepared to cop some criticism when it is due.

[Thalidomide]

Very good analysis

[MeeSo]

Pharaoh don't get so defensive. It's just one person's opinion.

[sabre_ac]

Firstly let me say I was a little concerned seeing who freo had drafted considering our abundance of players of that type....
That said though..if he were the best available then thats who we should have taken.

Weaver considering how the draft occured who do you suggest we should have taken with that pick?

Remind me...were you one of those pre'draft predicting swallow would go top 10 or 20?

[Pharaoh]

Pharaoh don't get so defensive. It's just one person's opinion.

Mate, this is an opinion posted on the net by a so-called expert. My personal view is that his original post was coloured by his own bias. If you don't agree with me, then that's fine. It's just my opinion. Or should Weaver be entitled to say anything he wants without criticism?

I'm quite sure that if we had drafted two talls with our first picks, then Weaver would have said: There goes Hawthorn again, picking talls when they desperately need quick, outside receivers.

[Weaver]

Remind me...were you one of those pre'draft predicting swallow would go top 10 or 20?

Absolutely. I thought Essendon's priority would be an inside midfielder who can win clearances and be good at stoppages. I thought Swallow was the top player of the type, other than perhaps Murphy who can play that role but tends to be a bit more of a Cousins than a Kerr.

Clubs didn't go shopping for Swallow's type this year. They went for running players on masse.

Even though Swallow went at 43 he was still in the top group of inside midfielders. Murphy, Hurn, Stanley, Ibbotson, Douglas might be the only ones who went ahead of him ... and that is really stretching things. I'd still say he was one of the top-3 inside guys as predicted.

Just I had Essendon taking their inside guy early (Swallow) and a flairly guy late (Grant) instead the Bombers flipped things around and got Dempsey early and took Lonergan late.

[Weaver]

Mate, this is an opinion posted on the net by a so-called expert.

Never ever claimed to be an expert. Run a mile from that claim.

My personal view is that his original post was coloured by his own bias. If you don't agree with me, then that's fine. It's just my opinion. Or should Weaver be entitled to say anything he wants without criticism?

No problem with criticism just baffled by your parnoia. I said you got the players you had to, and said that it is a change in tack from the normal Hawks policy of going for guys who can win their own footy and have toughness about them.

If you consider that a sledge then good luck to you.

I'm quite sure that if we had drafted two talls with our first picks, then Weaver would have said: There goes Hawthorn again, picking talls when they desperately need quick, outside receivers.

Not at all. I was saying that Hawks needed quick receviers and coping a bake from Hawks fans about that too.

All I said was that the Hawks have recruited different types of players than they normally do and you agree with me but I am still in the wrong :confused:

[dipper86]

Mate, this is an opinion posted on the net by a so-called expert. My personal view is that his original post was coloured by his own bias. If you don't agree with me, then that's fine. It's just my opinion. Or should Weaver be entitled to say anything he wants without criticism?

I'm quite sure that if we had drafted two talls with our first picks, then Weaver would have said: There goes Hawthorn again, picking talls when they desperately need quick, outside receivers.

I actually agree also, good call Pharoh,

In everything I have posted I have said that I would take Hughes ahead of Dowler.

I'm fairly sure Greg Miller would say otherwise considering he was very keen to pick him up.

[Ripper]

What an argument about nothing. It will be 2 seasons at least until everyone will be any the wiser about who did well or who didn't in the 2005 meat market.

[jackson_rules]

I actually agree also, good call Pharoh,



I'm fairly sure Greg Miller would say otherwise considering he was very keen to pick him up.
yes this is waevers analysis, and weaver said before the draft that HE rates hughes higher then dowler, so how does that mean he is being biased now seems he made that call before the draft happened

[smeagol_17]

Dont worry Pharaoh I think Weaver had short term memory loss-he did grade Tigers and Hawks on B!
I think its a fair assesment of the teams though, but until they play is the only real way to see if they were any good.

[dipper86]

yes this is waevers analysis, and weaver said before the draft that HE rates hughes higher then dowler, so how does that mean he is being biased now seems he made that call before the draft happened

I'm not basing it on just that comment i posted, I'm just suprised that the tigers went on par with hawthorns grading when on appearance we had a better draft and we met all our needs.

Hughes being better than dowler is absurd. all I was doing was pointing out that your cheif recruiter Greg Miller would have picked Dowler up in a flash if he was available at 8.

Second of all alot of players that were drafted wont play senior games next year, just because they wont be available does not mean the grading should be any less, most clubs expect their players to play senior footy in their second to third years anyway, they dont expect them to have an impact in their first year.

and third of all, he says that the players we recruited will find it hard to adapt to our gameplan, thats wrong we play a high possesion style of footy which brings lot of players into the action, judging by last year, most if not all our recruits had a sniff and all adapted very well.

[sante]

Nice assessment Weaver. It was a great read :thumbsu:

[theGav56]

QUOTE Fremantle
Quite why you would recruit Drum when you already have Mundy doesn't make much sense. Probably the one position they have covered for 10 years. Rob Warnock is a 5 year development project and even then he was beaten by Ryder effortlessly despite a 10cm edge in height. Ibbotson is a good solid squad player but probably not too much more and it is not as though the Dockers have a shortage of mid-paced ball winners in their midfield.

Grade E - Tried to have the minimum picks and obviously weren't that interested in the draft. QUOTE

With a little distance now from the draft I am pretty happy with the clubs selections.
Drum; we are a team that needs more footy smarts and it sounds like he has it. I am also not inclined to pigeon hole a player of his age and size (a little shorter than KPP size, but quite likely still growing). The club sees him as flexible, as Mundy seems to be. If a club has Mundy, why wouldn't you recruit more of him.

Ibbotson: suspect many on here know little about him. I don't. But he is rom the East Fremantle Club which Dockers have excellent relations with, so he is more likely to be a "find" than not. He seems to have pace and a bit of size. The club clearly rate him above Swallow who most posters on here (over)-rated extremely highly.

Warnock; perfect selction for this pick. A developing ruckman who we won't need (hopefully) for 3 years or so. The skills he is supposed to have seem ideal and he obviously needs to build his body and experience.

For me B rating. Can't think of better selections at the picks we had, just different ones.

[Turbocat]

Geelong
Obviously didn't see too much they liked so looked to recruit some insurance. Stokes replaces Thurley, Owen understudies Steve Johnson and West comes in as the 4th ruckman to replace Chambers. Gamble is a ulity type.

All hinges on Varcoe for the Cats. If he plays then they have a bargain and the draft is a success. If he stays on the fringes well they have probably picked up 5 fringe players and the draft is a dud.

Grade D - Just looking for depth with a gamble on Varcoe getting right.


Weaver , not having any contribution from Varcoe ,(athough he is slowly coming along) , would you still say our draft is a dud? To pick up a player like Stokes in any draft , let alone at P61, must at least give us a pass mark surely. Although he may have been thought of as a replacement for Thurley but I think he a lot more rounded player .To come in to the side, to add pace and ball handling in his first year, he can take on players, create play and kick goals not just from set shots.
I believe he was an U18 AllAust. and yet struggled to get drafted.It makes me wonder , are there other bargains out there.

[philhawk]

Weaver , not having any contribution from Varcoe ,(athough he is slowly coming along) , would you still say our draft is a dud? To pick up a player like Stokes in any draft , let alone at P61, must at least give us a pass mark surely. Although he may have been thought of as a replacement for Thurley but I think he a lot more rounded player .To come in to the side, to add pace and ball handling in his first year, he can take on players, create play and kick goals not just from set shots.
I believe he was an U18 AllAust. and yet struggled to get drafted.It makes me wonder , are there other bargains out there.

Nope. You got the only bargain ... in the history of the draft.

[missionpossible]

Nope. You got the only bargain ... in the history of the draft.

I have to agree 100% in that stoke was and will be the one and only ever bargain to go through the draft system.

All sarcasm aside. With Stokes what really happened is an AFL club did not list a short skinny kid at 18 who had obvious talent that they would have had to wait 3 years before he ever set foot on a ground because he was good enough (he would have got fill in games for injuries only). There are a lot of these guys around and they really have to prove themselves at state league level to get their chance.

In future I can see clubs spending more time going over the state leagues looking for talant that can slip straight into afl football at age 21. The likes of Roe, Patfull, Stokes, Vince who have done it this year will always be around. It is just a matter of having the resources to find them and not getting over focused on the under 18 talent.

Djekkerra is a great example of someone who clubs are interested in but rather than investing in him in the long term they may well take the wait and see approach and see if he is going to do the hard work and establish himself in a league like the VFL before picking him.

[- PC -]

Nope. You got the only bargain ... in the history of the draft.

Sarcasm needs emoticons on the net

Johncock 67

Kemp 105

Porplyzia is another mature age recruit that needed time away

[Bentleigh]

Richmond
Oakley-Nicholls and Casserley may not be the best footballers in the draft but they are probably the two players that best suit Wallace's idea of free running football played by atheltic wingmen. So on that score Richmond have done well getting the players that suit them.

A run on quick midfielders between picks 10 and 20ish suited Richmond perfectly with Hughes falling to them which addresses a huge need.

Grade B - A club that got the players they need for their gameplan.



Spot on.

Matty White picked up in the pre-season draft is our best first year player and perhaps is worth a mention. Smacks of courage and pace.

[Turbocat]

Nope. You got the only bargain ... in the history of the draft.
Great insight. Work in the industry do you? The Hawks needs guys like you , they are missing out your depth of knowledge. .. Oh it was Sarcasim , didn't pick it up , not that familiar with it.

[philhawk]

Great insight. Work in the industry do you? The Hawks needs guys like you , they are missing out your depth of knowledge. .. Oh it was Sarcasim , didn't pick it up , not that familiar with it.

Yep, I work for the Geelong Recruitment Department. :thumbsu:

And yes, you do need to work on your sarcasm radar. ;)

[Turbocat]

Yep, I work for the Geelong Recruitment Department. :thumbsu:

And yes, you do need to work on your sarcasm radar. ;)

You work for Geelong , gees you are better than I thought. Not like working for those sides with an endless supply of Top20 picks. I mean how much effort does it take to get Hodge and Franklin and Roughead and Dowler and Ellis (Did well with Micthell in 2001 ) . Yes we might get a FatherSon every now and then but we havent had a pick better than #7 in 15 years. You have done a top job down at the Cattery , philhawk.

Anyway all I was getting at was guys like Stokes are out there. Maybe there should be a better system to give supp players a chance to play thru the year. There have been calls by some for a mid-season draft , Id think it would be better if we could have bigger lists to call on. Say be allowed to promote Supp player like Rookies for a certain number of games. Maybe clubs may get dibbs on them , like the Rookies to give incentive or if they play X number of games the must listed as main list players the following year.
I feel a bit for players that feel washed up at 20 cause you have missed being drafted and a new bunch of kids get all the attention.

[Axcellence]

You work for Geelong , gees you are better than I thought. Not like working for those sides with an endless supply of Top20 picks. I mean how much effort does it take to get Hodge and Franklin and Roughead and Dowler and Ellis (Did well with Micthell in 2001 ) . Yes we might get a FatherSon every now and then but we havent had a pick better than #7 in 15 years.

Let me get this... how many Father-son recruits does Geelong have on its list right now? 4 recruits in last 5 years? 5 I think (including Gary Ablett Jnr from 2001 draft... who was in the same all aust team as Nick Dal Santo). And another heading Geelong's way (Tom Hawkins). Can anyone say here honestly say that Tom Hawkins is not a top 5 recruit had he been available on open market?

Oh... did I read somewhere that Geelong actually has a dilemma right now 15 other clubs would love to have right now? 2 Father-son picks to choose from this year (who are eligible)?

Some teams have weak lists... and need the extra draft picks... Geelong was middling.. yet got free kicks along for what? a 3rd round pick?

Talk about need for sarcasm radars...

[TheGeneral]

Sarcasm needs emoticons on the net

Johncock 67

Kemp 105

Porplyzia is another mature age recruit that needed time away
I think Dean Kemp was an additional selection granted to the WCE to make up the numbers on their playing list in 1989. Correct me if I'm wrong, but only the WCE were allowed to draft players from the WAFL that year and I think he was off limits to other clubs. :confused:

Chris Grant - pick 105, Hird - pick 79 and Hamill - pick 79 far exceed any others players picked up late in the draft.

[bashar]

we dont have top 5 picks every year running mate.. and u cant say hawthorn havent benefited from the father son rule aswell (not as much as us, but then again we dont suck like you and our fathers must pass on some pretty good genetics to make thier sons sooo damn valuable)
and please we develop our father sons,gazza and scarlo werent that highly regarded. while you look at blake and callen are just fringe players. its hit and miss, we dont always pick up jewels...they just turn out to be (we cant help it they have motivation and passion)
besides what are the hawks complaining about when they picked up enough key position players to last them for the next 10 years.

[- PC -]

I think Dean Kemp was an additional selection granted to the WCE to make up the numbers on their playing list in 1989. Correct me if I'm wrong, but only the WCE were allowed to draft players from the WAFL that year and I think he was off limits to other clubs. :confused:

Chris Grant - pick 105, Hird - pick 79 and Hamill - pick 79 far exceed any others players picked up late in the draft.
You could be right, I was under the impression he and Turley were late picks and people east were spewing

[Weaver]

You could be right, I was under the impression he and Turley were late picks and people east were spewing

Craig Turley, Don Pyke, Peter Sumich, Ryan Turnball were all pre-draft selections.

1986 and 1987 WCE had exlusive access to WA. 1988, 1989 and 1990 clubs (other than WCE) were only allowed one WA player each.

Allowing that some clubs couldn't afford the transfer fees or make contract offers to top-WA talent, it meant that Dean Kemp was NOT pick 117. Clubs were often interested in recruiting WAFL veterans who had been off-limits to them for 3 years.

A team like Fitzroy could not hope to entice a star like Ben Allan over, so had to recruit someone who was 'signable' - ie not a top-notch talent.

Brad Rowe (Brisbane)
Mark Brayshaw (North)
Stephan Edgar (Carlton)
Brad Tunbridge (Sydney)
Dean Kickett (Fitzroy)
Ben Allan (Hawthorn)
Gavin Rose (Collingwood)
Peter Cransberg (Essendon)
Dennis Repacholi (Footscray)
Greg Jones (Subiaco)

By the time Greg Jones went at pick 49, WCE only had to worry about Richmond, Geelong or Melbourne suddenly finding the budget to recruit a WAFL guy. They were basically conducting their own draft thereafter for the Colts guys like Heady and Kemp.

[baywatch5]

Let me get this... how many Father-son recruits does Geelong have on its list right now? 4 recruits in last 5 years? 5 I think
Correct. Scarlett, G.Ablett, Callan, Blake and N.Ablett. Question, What round would the last 3 warrant in there respective drafts???

(including Gary Ablett Jnr from 2001 draft... who was in the same all aust team as Nick Dal Santo). Never made All Austrailian, 3rd round pick was fair. Wasn't ranked very highly

And another heading Geelong's way (Tom Hawkins). Can anyone say here honestly say that Tom Hawkins is not a top 5 recruit had he been available on open market?
Very true.

Oh... did I read somewhere that Geelong actually has a dilemma right now 15 other clubs would love to have right now? 2 Father-son picks to choose from this year (who are eligible)?
3 I think. Hawkins, Couch, Neale.


Some teams have weak lists... and need the extra draft picks... Geelong was middling.. yet got free kicks along for what? a 3rd round pick?

Talk about need for sarcasm radars...

If you have a good look at it, I don't see many "free kicks"

Scarlett and G.Ablett are stars. However both were ranked as 3rd round selections.
Blake, Callan... some will say 3rd round is to high.
N.Ablett??? where would you rank him before drafted?

Add to these, S.Fletcher, M.Woolnough, D.Clarke (All bargins:rolleyes: )

Yes we have been given a gold pass to Hawkins. But weigh's itself out don't you think???

Some other clubs who have benefited from F/S:
Brisbane - Brown. Carlton - Whitnall, Waite. Collingwood - Clokes, Shaws. Essendon - Fletcher, Watson. Richmond - Richardson, Bowden. WCE - Cousins, McIntosh. W Bulldogs - Darcy.

Pitty didn't work out for hawks with S.Tuck

[scooter600x]

If you have a good look at it, I don't see many "free kicks"

Scarlett and G.Ablett are stars. However both were ranked as 3rd round selections.
Blake, Callan... some will say 3rd round is to high.
N.Ablett??? where would you rank him before drafted?

Add to these, S.Fletcher, M.Woolnough, D.Clarke (All bargins:rolleyes: )

Yes we have been given a gold pass to Hawkins. But weigh's itself out don't you think???

Some other clubs who have benefited from F/S:
Brisbane - Brown. Carlton - Whitnall, Waite. Collingwood - Clokes, Shaws. Essendon - Fletcher, Watson. Richmond - Richardson, Bowden. WCE - Cousins, McIntosh. W Bulldogs - Darcy.

Pitty Hawks didn't take a chance with S.Tuck
Blake was rated very highly that year.

In a dreadful year for rucks, Blake was thought of as the most likely to be any good. Certainly ahead of Llane Spaanderman who went about 18.

[Whispers]

I noticed a Ben Considine kicked 4 goals and got best on for Calder on the weekend against the Falcons. Is he any relation to Ex-Syndey player Ed Considine? Possible F/S for the Swannies?

[foj1]

I noticed a Ben Considine kicked 4 goals and got best on for Calder on the weekend against the Falcons. Is he any relation to Ex-Syndey player Ed Considine? Possible F/S for the Swannies?

Nephew- A player to keep your eye on next year.

[Turbocat]

Let me get this... how many Father-son recruits does Geelong have on its list right now? 4 recruits in last 5 years? 5 I think (including Gary Ablett Jnr from 2001 draft... who was in the same all aust team as Nick Dal Santo). And another heading Geelong's way (Tom Hawkins). Can anyone say here honestly say that Tom Hawkins is not a top 5 recruit had he been available on open market?

Oh... did I read somewhere that Geelong actually has a dilemma right now 15 other clubs would love to have right now? 2 Father-son picks to choose from this year (who are eligible)?

Some teams have weak lists... and need the extra draft picks... Geelong was middling.. yet got free kicks along for what? a 3rd round pick?

Talk about need for sarcasm radars...

The point is not how many Father Son's , its how talented they are. Barrassi had a son , not good enough , Pagan had son , not good enough. Being the son of a Father player means less than you infer. Far more Priority Pick's go on to be quality players than Sons of a Father. You ask about other picks this year , yes we have others available , Tom Couch and Jocab Neal qualify and taking them would of course mean using an R3 pick and an R2 pick. I highly doubt that they will be taken this year.Why? because they have less talent than those available at R3.

I'll put it this way , if one club has top5 picks every year and no FS and the other has no picks earlier than7 plus FS , the the Top5 pick club should be ahead.