View Full Version : Who Else Thinks Birss Would be an Excellent Small Defender?
The Doctor
19 Dec 2005, 11:08
I think Shane Birss has the makings of an excellent specialist small defender. I would love to see him given a crack at this type of role in the near future.
Birss is a bit of a tough nut. He contests hard and fearlessly and is a disciplined player. I feel certain wouldn't allow any cheap and easy kicks for those goalsneaks that seem to trouble us. I like his determination and willingness to work hard for every possession.
At present he is competing for a spot in midfield where there is an incredible amount of competition from faster and slicker ball getters and ball carriers. In my view he is too good to be left out of the side but will struggle for a regular berth unless he specialises in an area that the team is not so well supplied. And that is why I think defence could be his go.
The other important thing is that he has that mad stare that defenders need to have!
OldSchool
19 Dec 2005, 11:21
I floated a similar idea a while ago because I thought Birss could do good job defensively for Eade. Rocket had a few similar types on his Sydney list a few seasons ago and he worked them very well.
As tough as the midfield is for Birss to break into the smaller defensive opportunities will also be limited but he has all the attributes required to do the job well. If I was Birss I would be requesting that I be given that opportunity for a trial as a small defender.
scooter600x
19 Dec 2005, 11:40
A much better option than Montgomery.
It's his best bet to cement his AFL career at the kennel. As already pointed out, competition for places in our midfield is red hot. Discipline and determination are areas of his game that are real strengths, so he could be suited to a role down back. However, pace off the mark against some of those slippery small forwards is the big worry for him as a potential small defender. He's not super quick off the mark. Guys like Davey and Lovett could expose Birssy for leg speed.
scooter600x
19 Dec 2005, 12:17
Guys like Davey and Lovett could expose Birssy for leg speed.
If Birss was playing on Davey or Lovett, Peter Rohde must have kidnapped Eade and taken up coaching again.
Morris would pick up Lovett or Davey.
The_Bulldogs_Bite
19 Dec 2005, 14:34
A much better option than Montgomery.
How do you figure that out? What, because Monty is 32? Honestly. Monty plays above his height, he's practically a 'general' in the backline, he's a MUCH smarter player than Birss and a better kick and mark.
Yeah, Birss dives on the ball. But he doesn't do much else. Bad skills, not smart with the Footy, not fast, not a good mark. He's tough, but he has a small frame so he can be pushed off the ball easier than most.
Monty is a much better option. It's harsh, but Birss hasn't got much opportunity in our side. Only chance is if one of Cross or West get injured, then he can fill that role. With the players that we've got, all fit and firing, he's not good enough on paper to be in the midfield or backline. By all means, Good Luck to him - but at the moment, that's reality.
He'll play a similiar role to last year, getting a few games here and there. But like I said, he's a good backup incase Cross or West suffer an injury as he's that type of player. Though, I don't think he's anywhere near as smart as West or Cross at this stage.
bulldogtragic
19 Dec 2005, 14:41
I agree that Birss wont be a gun midfielder amongst our other talent. I'd like to see him take up tagging, get really fit, work on strength and endurance and like Libba at the end of his career, turn himself into a tagging specialist.
With so many of our players that can hurt teams, i think it would be good to have a quality tagger or 2 to work on the defencive side of our game.
scooter600x
19 Dec 2005, 15:05
How do you figure that out?
There's two roles in the backline for someone 183cm.
Either you play attacking and hurt the opposition with kicking skills (Gilbee, McMahon, Smith prior to 04) or you play tight and shut down someone dangerous (Morris).
Birss could play that lock down role if Morris was needed in the midfield to tag say Judd or McLeod. Eade would have to pick his (Birss') opponents and Morris would be needed for the likes of Davey.
Montgomery has never played tight in his life. He plays the loose, attacking role and zones off his opponent to use his marking as the 3rd man up. This 3rd man up has died out of his game as he's got older and is losing his spring.
Montgomery will never replace McMahon or Gilbee in the attacking role. If either were going to have a run in midfield (how many midfielders do we need), Griffen would be my first choice to replace them at HB.
The_Bulldogs_Bite
19 Dec 2005, 15:26
There's two roles in the backline for someone 183cm.
Either you play attacking and hurt the opposition with kicking skills (Gilbee, McMahon, Smith prior to 04) or you play tight and shut down someone dangerous (Morris).
Birss could play that lock down role if Morris was needed in the midfield to tag say Judd or McLeod. Eade would have to pick his (Birss') opponents and Morris would be needed for the likes of Davey.
Montgomery has never played tight in his life. He plays the loose, attacking role and zones off his opponent to use his marking as the 3rd man up. This 3rd man up has died out of his game as he's got older and is losing his spring.
Montgomery will never replace McMahon or Gilbee in the attacking role. If either were going to have a run in midfield (how many midfielders do we need), Griffen would be my first choice to replace them at HB.
Birss hasn't got Footy smarts though, and he's too easily pushed off the ball. His only "asset" is that he goes in hard for the ball. These days, those type of players get flogged unless you're brillant at it like West or Cross. Birss isn't fast enough to tag nor fit enough. If he's able to add some bulk and get a bit of footy smart, then he may be able to play in the backline. Based on previous years form though, he won't be winning out too often.
OldSchool
19 Dec 2005, 15:37
Birss hasn't got Footy smarts though, and he's too easily pushed off the ball. His only "asset" is that he goes in hard for the ball. These days, those type of players get flogged unless you're brillant at it like West or Cross. Birss isn't fast enough to tag nor fit enough. If he's able to add some bulk and get a bit of footy smart, then he may be able to play in the backline. Based on previous years form though, he won't be winning out too often.
I disagree on most of the points you make about Birss. He is footy smart and he is not too easily pushed off the ball and I don't think his fitness level is a concern. His pace is the only noticeable concern.
Anyone remember the game against North a few years back when Pickett had kicked 6 to half time on Robbins? Could be wrong, but I'm almost certain that it was Birss (in one of his first few games) who was thrown on to him and completely shut him down in the second half.
Couldn't help but think about it when Pickett was cutting Gilbee up earlier this year (while Birss was sitting on the bench), and couldn't help help thinking about it over the past couple of months with all the hoo-hah over the need to recruit a 'lock down' defender from outside the club when IMO there was a solid/very good option staring the footy department right in the face.
As it stands, if there was nothing splitting Monty and Birss, Eade's preference would probably be Monty. It's what happens when you go with short term recruiting - you give it every opportunity to work and to vindicate. Monty will do well, but if they are both competing for a spot in defence, it will be to the detriment of Birss' development and career - there is a really fine line between representing excellent, ready made depth just an opportuninty away from carving out a long term AFL career and being on the scrapheap with 50 games to your name in 7 years.
Birss hasn't got Footy smarts though, and he's too easily pushed off the ball. His only "asset" is that he goes in hard for the ball. These days, those type of players get flogged unless you're brillant at it like West or Cross. Birss isn't fast enough to tag nor fit enough. If he's able to add some bulk and get a bit of footy smart, then he may be able to play in the backline. Based on previous years form though, he won't be winning out too often.
He is at least passable in every facet of the game (pace, skills and decision making aren't outstanding, but are reasonable enough), and absolutely elite (top 10 in the comp elite) when it comes to courage. There is room in the modern game for solid types - the salary cap makes sure of it.
stefoid
19 Dec 2005, 16:43
I disagree on most of the points you make about Birss. He is footy smart and he is not too easily pushed off the ball and I don't think his fitness level is a concern. His pace is the only noticeable concern.
My concern with birss is his decision making and disposal. He isnt bad, but he isnt great either. But Id agree with you that he could make a lock down back pocket type - in fact Id say thats his last hope, because he isnt breaking into our midfield any time soon unless he makes some sort of quantum leap in his problem areas.
To play a lock down defender, it helps to be fast, but its more quickness of brain that foot that stops the slippery forward pockets... if you can read the play you can stop them before their pace becomes an issue.
Dog Town
19 Dec 2005, 18:45
Anyone remember the game against North a few years back when Pickett had kicked 6 to half time on Robbins? Could be wrong, but I'm almost certain that it was Birss (in one of his first few games) who was thrown on to him and completely shut him down in the second half.
Couldn't help but think about it when Pickett was cutting Gilbee up earlier this year (while Birss was sitting on the bench), and couldn't help help thinking about it over the past couple of months with all the hoo-hah over the need to recruit a 'lock down' defender from outside the club when IMO there was a solid/very good option staring the footy department right in the face.
.Yep it was Birss who shut him out after he ripped us a new one.Most around here have been calling for this since Birss was in his second or third year and I think its a good option.
The only reason I can find as to why Eade hasn't done it is that he wants his small defenders to be attacking runners and not negating players.I think he is pretty happy to let Gilbee and Mcmahon improve there defensive game and continue providing run.If you throw another small into the mix then based on the balance of alot of forward lines we come up against one of Mcmahon or Gilbee would have to move out of defence which would take a decent chunk of our run away.He doesn't mind having Morris as a negater because he is versatile with his height and speed combination.
Really Birss has every tool needed to play the position.He is stronger overhead than most give him credit for and a good tackler.He has one of the smallest turning circles going around and would not be turned around by the smarter forwards.There is obviously some sort of balance problem that Eade sees in moving Birss down back.
Really Birss has every tool needed to play the position.He is stronger overhead than most give him credit for and a good tackler.He has one of the smallest turning circles going around and would not be turned around by the smarter forwards.
He took on Richo whilst running backwards and marked strongly in 2005.
He is better than many expect overhead, but so is Crossy. To be fair to Birss (I like him as a footballer) he is average in most departments but has a huge heart. He is reported to have had a massive pre-season already, is quicker and has greater endurance but nothing has been said about his acceleration, his obvious weak point.
He might snare a few games as a lock down defender but to me his long term future lies with his abilities as an inside midfielder. He is not super quick but neither is Westy - like West, he could be one of those guys that just "finds a way" (remember Whitnall on Richo this year?)
Dog Town
19 Dec 2005, 18:57
He took on Richo whilst running backwards and marked strongly in 2005.
He is better than many expect overhead, but so is Crossy. To be fair to Birss (I like him as a footballer) he is average in most departments but has a huge heart. He is reported to have had a massive pre-season already, is quicker and has greater endurance but nothing has been said about his acceleration, his obvious weak point.
He might snare a few games as a lock down defender but to me his long term future lies with his abilities as an inside midfielder. He is not super quick but neither is Westy - like West, he could be one of those guys that just "finds a way" (remember Whitnall on Richo this year?)I dont see his pace as a massive problem.At times he looks quite quick and at his worst he still looks passable.
the dog catcher
19 Dec 2005, 19:33
The Eel ROCKS!!! 40!
scooter600x
19 Dec 2005, 21:23
I miss Mel.
She was nice.
jazzadogs
20 Dec 2005, 10:01
birss has a good mark, good work ethic, good fitness level, and a good long kick (he continually kicks goals from 50m when given the oppurtunity).
he has shown he is a good footballer who puts in the effort required, the onlky problem is he doesnt normally get a game til someone is injured, which shows he is not high on eade's list
however, his decision to stay at the club will hopefully be rewarded with some game time, especially if he puts in the hard yards over pre-season which i suspect he will
As a small defender, I think Birss would be exploited for his lack of pace by just about all small forwards. At times I watched him very closely this year and I was really surprised by how slow he was off the mark.
I just can't see where he's going to get a game apart from as an injury filler.
Gilbo_Fan
20 Dec 2005, 15:26
I disagree on most of the points you make about Birss. He is footy smart and he is not too easily pushed off the ball and I don't think his fitness level is a concern. His pace is the only noticeable concern.
I agree with OldSchool on this one. To suggest that Birss is not footy smart is ridiculous IMO. Birss is a footballer first and an athlete second - I believe he has got to where he is through his footy nous - he is very tough and courageous under packs and was one of the few Werribee players to be able to hold his head high after that GF. I am not suggesting he is the greatest disposer of the ball, but I dont think its lack of smarts when he makes mistakes.
I dont think he is necessarily easily pushed off the ball but he certainly isn't as well built at this stage of his career as I thought he might be, so he doesn't damage opposition sides with his tackling the way a guy like Matty Boyd does.
I agree with other posters that the question about whether he can play in the backline is one of pace. However I disagree and I actually believe that he will be an important member of our on ball brigade of the future. I'm not saying he will be the star but like Cross he is one of our best at winning the pill for himself. West, Johnson, Smith etc are all moving into the twilight of their careers and guys like Birss who have been in the system will be well placed to replace them. It wont be easy but getting a game for any AFL side is no easy task.