View Full Version : Is jason cloke playing in the wrong era??
Alot of people bag this bloke but I really feel sorry for him. I reckon he gets more out of himself than most going around . I believe his biggest problem is that he was born 20 years to late. If he played in his old mans era he would have been a gun.
The fact is over the last 10-15 years the game has changed so much(not all good changes either) that there is no longer a place for the tough, competative specialist backman unless they have good pace and athleteisism. Unfortunately Cloke does not fit this mould. He is however very tough has a great set of hands and reads the play really well. He really is a good old fashioned footballer but the game may have passed him by.
I hope I am wrong because I think he deserves to have a good career , but where can he be played?? He was great as a loose backman, running into packs and being the 3rd tall up but coaches have learnt how to expose him. He is too slow and not creative enough to be a forward . He was ok as a crash and bash Jason blake type ruck but lets face it he only got the gig because the 4 blokes in front of him fell over. The more I think about it the more I can't find a role for him.
Jason will always play well at vfl level. He is just to bloody competative not to. He will have the odd good game at Afl level and do some great things. But for Jason to have a long career he will need to get the very best out of himself week in week out . He is a bit like the simon katich of the Collingwood fc -Always playing for his spot.
I think that fact that there is really no longer a place for players of this type is a real shame because I would much rather see a tough footballer get a game ahead of a guy who can run 100 mts in under 11 seconds .
If anyone thinks jason will have a long career I would be interested to hear how because I really hope he does.
Coin_Toss
17 Feb 2006, 08:02
Yeah, he might be playing in the wrong era, but it doesn't hide the fact that old fashioned footballers can't play well in this era.
Jason reads the play exceptionally well - that's always a bonus to have these days, he is tough as nails - which makes him a tough opponent to play on. Jason isn't too bad in terms of speed, he has improved on this over preseason.
The thing Jason lacked last year was confidence. MM kept Jason down at Williamstown for most of last year, and when it was time for him to play for Collingwood, his confidence was shot. It didn't stop him performing excellently at Williamstown (winning their B&F). If Jason starts the season in the seniors, I am sure we would see a more confident and enthusiastic Jason Cloke.
He's playing in the same era as Glen Archer, and Archer's done ok. Leo Barry and Matthew Scarlett are also shortish key position defenders with adequate but not outstanding skills.
The only thing wrong with his game is his confidence and his kicking. Everything else he has proven from time to time that he can do. All he needs to do is string a few good games together and he'll be an automatic selection in our team.
doppleganger
17 Feb 2006, 08:21
J.Cloke is in a bad spot
he struggles one on one vs the big power forwards, so it is doubtful whether he could hold down a KP down back
but then as a 3rd or 4th tall he IMO is behind Clement, Maxwell & even O'Brien
he has been exposed as a forward and i dont want him playing up forward ever again, as a supporter when u see J.Cloke go forward u know we are struggling!
can he re-invent himself as a tall midfielder, big strong enforcer type mid......is he fast enough to do this?? does he have the tank?? all remains to be seen
hope he can make it because he does give everything when he plays.......if only lonie, davis or even didak had the same desire to get the best from themsleves that J.Cloke does!
yes. he should be in the car park.
Lonie_from_50
17 Feb 2006, 09:34
Good post ant, I can agree on almost everything you say, but then again, Archer gets mentioned. Cloke is like a 2nd class Archer, yet Jason is playing in an already 'slow' team, so his speed is always looked at as a con. He is probably not tall enough, or skillful enough to play one on one (as shown against Pavlich and McPharlin) on a tall forward, however, the week before he towelled Aaron Hamill before Hamill did his ankle, and then, Gehrig was his direct opponent after Presti went off injured.
Last year looked like his last, not because of his form, but a) The relationship with the coach, and b) He can be exposed.
Then he turned it around, he finally made the side (even though he should have made it earlier on form), and showed versatility as the ruckman, but he also played in his best role. Then again, players like Chad Morrison and even Ben Johnson can be classed as sweeping backman. If they are in the side, Cloke will be once again exposed as useless.
And yes, 20 years earlier he would have been known as a better player than what he is now.
guess_who
17 Feb 2006, 09:40
I don't think he is in the wrong era, there is still room in the modern game for players like him. The problem is there are too many players at Collingwood with similar talents skill level ie. Tall defenders with little ability to do any thing other than defend, that are ahead of him or have been ranked ahead of him by the coaching staff. I would love to see him play a big part of the season but It's hard to find a spot for him in the back line, and it is painful to watch him play any where else on the ground.
joefootylover
17 Feb 2006, 09:50
I think he can make it as a member of our 22. He can pinch hit in the ruck, which is handy, he may be able to rove on the ball as the "enforcer type" as mentioned above, and he may be able to play more efectively down back now that he has slimmed down by five kilos and apperantly gained a yard of pace.
Remember he is 189cm with a good leap, Wakes is only 191cm, so theres really not that much difference there, also he is still only 23 years old, and has only played 69 games, a similar amount of senior experience to Lonie, Didak, Leon and Rhyce, all players we are all saying should "take the next step" this year. Why have so many written of this young man, I sometimes suspect it is because we unconciously think of him as more senior that he is, as "older" than Lones or Leon or Didak, but the fact is he has every chance of stepping up in 06.
He's playing in the same era as Glen Archer, and Archer's done ok. Leo Barry and Matthew Scarlett are also shortish key position defenders with adequate but not outstanding skills.
The only thing wrong with his game is his confidence and his kicking. Everything else he has proven from time to time that he can do. All he needs to do is string a few good games together and he'll be an automatic selection in our team.
Scarlett and Barry are fare more athletic and have a big pace advantage over cloke.
I can understand the similarties with archer (great hands, very tough and reads the play well) but I dont think it is showing any dis-respect to jason by calling him a poor mans archer as archer is a bloody legend(as fare as non collingwood players go) Archer is more versitale , is a little more agile and can play just about any role bar ruck. He also has a slight edge in pace and is a much better kick . He is an old fashioned type who has a touch of class.
Yeah perhaps, but I really feel sorry for McGough. He has a heap of talent in getting to where the ball is and actually picking up the damn thing. 20+ years ago he would of been a great player.
Yeah perhaps, but I really feel sorry for McGough. He has a heap of talent in getting to where the ball is and actually picking up the damn thing. 20+ years ago he would of been a great player.
Mcgough is tony shaw re incarnated. would have killed them
Infact I can think of atleast 5 1990 premiership players who would not get drafted now
Gafer, Manson, Shaw,Richardson(ok he was injured) an Kerro
I still love the game but geez its changed
MOTELSPECIAL
17 Feb 2006, 22:27
I watched the 2002 premil against adelaide at the MCG on dvd today. Cloke played like a gun down back in the finals pressure. Hope he can get back to that.
MOTELSPECIAL
17 Feb 2006, 22:28
Kept Watching The Hit On Edwards. The Most Unlucky Guy To Be Rubbed Out.
Johnson#26
18 Feb 2006, 06:26
Probably is. He lacks the mobillity and skills to really match it, but he does give his all and is a terrific mark/pack mark. There is a role for him - just needs to get into the side, first.
His commitment at training has been top notch.
Lonie_from_50
18 Feb 2006, 07:13
Also, te thing about Cloke, he is not the best defender in the side, and the way he actually gets under-rated on this board is a sign that what he can do is actually fairly good. Players like Barry and Scarlett were mentioned, but why? They are top of the class defenders, Jason is just a solid defender who seems to be unlucky in the way the game is played at times. Let's hope he has a good season.
Players like Barry and Scarlett were mentioned, but why?
Because they are the type of player he can aspire to become. They are not tall, not especially skilled, not quick, and have only adequate ball skills. Yet despite playing on bigger quicker opponents week in week out, they beat them more often than not, by using their brains to position themselves properly in the contests. I'm not saying Cloke is as good as them, I'm just saying that his deficiencies shoudl not preclude him from becoming a good footballer in the modern game.
Because they are the type of player he can aspire to become. They are not tall, not especially skilled, not quick, and have only adequate ball skills. Yet despite playing on bigger quicker opponents week in week out, they beat them more often than not, by using their brains to position themselves properly in the contests. I'm not saying Cloke is as good as them, I'm just saying that his deficiencies shoudl not preclude him from becoming a good footballer in the modern game.
yeah but they do it with addequate support and J.Cloke has shown that he makes a great foil as 3rd or 4th defender and imo he is better than maxwell at it.
eddiesmith
18 Feb 2006, 19:22
yeah but they do it with addequate support and J.Cloke has shown that he makes a great foil as 3rd or 4th defender and imo he is better than maxwell at it.
Shh, dont say that about Collingwood fans favourite overrated hack :p On some boards they would demand you be hung for putting down Maxy and praising Jase :D
Anyway, I reckon wing is his position and maybe a bit of around the ground ruckwork to free Fraser to drift forward, only problem is we have so many wingmen
Coin_Toss
18 Feb 2006, 19:27
Jason was used on the wing late last year and in the intra-club match.
Maybe we might see MM use Jason more on a wing this year, because of his toughness at the footy.
HAHAHA oh yeah jason cloke as a wingman..
cant you just imagine him streaming down the member's side wing on anzac day, taking two bounces, evading lovett and hird and nailing a low stab pass onto the chest of pebbles 30m out directly in front?
HAHAHAHAHAHA
eddiesmith
18 Feb 2006, 19:31
HAHAHA oh yeah jason cloke as a wingman..
cant you just imagine him streaming down the member's side wing on anzac day, taking two bounces, evading lovett and hird and nailing a low stab pass onto the chest of pebbles 30m out directly in front?
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Nah, he wont evade em, he will run right through 'em :D
magpies42
18 Feb 2006, 19:55
can play loose man in defence thats about it. Should be used as a hitman to take out leading opposition players. Hope he can prove me wrong, he is a hard worker so i am happy to retract my comments come the end of the season
As much as I wanted to be proven wrong(because i like the way he goes about his business) on this topic the longer the season goes on the more I am being proven right. Jason had got himself into the best possible shape he can get to . He worked is butt off over the pre season and still cannot crack it for a regular game. It certainly appears as though the modern game was not made for jason.