WikiProject:AFL - Collingwood

[Lonie_from_50]

I am a member of the WikiProject:AFL on Wikipedia, The free internet encyclopedia.

WikiProject has been successful yet, the development has been rather slow, especially Collingwood. Only 3 out of the so far 36 participants are Collingwood supporters, but it seems only myself is working consistently on Collingwood players.

It would be great to get most of you over there and fix up and create more of Collingwood's players.

So far, 57/1056 Collingwood Players have been done.

To see what all the fuss is about, Click Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_AFL)

[dids4]

get in touch with the master - johnson26. :thumbsu:

[Lonie_from_50]

Collingwood Players on Wikipedia (21-02-2006)

58/1056

Ahmat, Robert
Barwick, Doug
Betheras, Rupert
Brereton, Dermott
Brown, Gavin
Buckley, Nathan
Carman, Phil
Cassidy, Brad
Christian, Michael
Clement, James
Cloke, David
Cloke, Jason
Cloke, Travis
Coventry, Gordon
Cummings, Scott
Davies, Benjamin
Davis, Nick
Didak, Alan
Fuller, Brad
Godden, Luke
Hardie, Brad
Holland, Brodie
Johnson, Ben
Kekovich, Sam
King, David D.
Kinnear, Ben
Kyne, Phonse
Licuria, Paul
Lokan, Matthew
Lonie, Ryan
Mahoney, Josh
Maxwell, Nick
McCartney, Jason
McGough, Mark
McGuane, Michael
McHale, Jock
McKenna, Peter
Michael, Mal
Millane, Darren
O'Brien, Heritier
Osbourne, Richard
Pert, Gary
Raso, Frank
Regan, Jack
Richards, Lou
Roach, Danny
Rocca, Anthony
Rocca, Saverio
Rose, Bob
Rumney, Harold
Sanderson, Brenton
Schauble, Andrew
Shaw, Heath
Shaw, Tony
Tarrant, Chris
Taylor, Brian
Williams, Mark M.
Williams, Paul
Woewodin, Shane
Woods, Tony

*Bold players indicate needing a touch-up, which may include, too brief info, no template, etc.

[Lonie_from_50]

get in touch with the master - johnson26. :thumbsu:

Luke said he will certainly be involved after he has finished his other commitments. :)

[KissStephanie]

It would be great to get most of you over there and fix up and create more of Collingwood's players.

So far, 57/1056 Collingwood Players have been done.

To see what all the fuss is about, Click Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_AFL)I added a few players names to the list, and I organised the names into alphabetical order because they all weren't. I also think that the columns should be the letters A-I for column 1, J-Q for column 2, and R-Z for column 3, at least for now.

If anybody is going to add names, then please place them in alphabetical order.

[Lonie_from_50]

Cool KS. Good to see Barwick and Banks there.

I am working on getting the 1990 Premiership Players done, considering that is all I have been watching over the past couple of days.

Also, a good pointer, if you have the AFL Encyclopedia, it is of great help.

[Lonie_from_50]

Currently Working On:
Doug Barwick

[Jabso]

I've done a few edits to the Collingwood page myself a while ago.
If I get some time I might look into creating a few player pages.
PS: Watch out for the "Player Nick name" page entry that always gets vandalised with derogatory nicknames.
Apparently Dale Thomas's nick name is "Ellis > Thomas" :rolleyes:

[Lonie_from_50]

I've done a few edits to the Collingwood page myself a while ago.
If I get some time I might look into creating a few player pages.
PS: Watch out for the "Player Nick name" page entry that always gets vandalised with derogatory nicknames.
Apparently Dale Thomas's nick name is "Ellis > Thomas" :rolleyes:

Yeah, you get the idiots on there, but normally it is okay. I reckon us Pies can own Wikipedia, it'll be like Eddie Everywhere.

[Jabso]

Yeah, you get the idiots on there, but normally it is okay. I reckon us Pies can own Wikipedia, it'll be like Eddie Everywhere.
Yeah cool. How exactly do you join Wikiproject AFL?
Could you possibly change the CFC logo to the new one (with the Australian flag on the left). I have tried to do this but pics I find aren't the right size.

[Lonie_from_50]

To join WP:AFL, all you have to do is edit participants and add your name...just copy another Collingwood's (easier) and change the details and number.

[Hoggy]

Be good if Ossie's name was spelt correct!

[Johnson#26]

I'll do Gavin Brown when I get around to it. :)

[Pie 4 Life]

I've joined but do we only have to summarise their careers or add stats or something like that? :)

[Lonie_from_50]

Be good if Ossie's name was spelt correct!

Working on Richard OSBORNE - Needs work!

[Lonie_from_50]

I've joined but do we only have to summarise their careers or add stats or something like that? :)

What you have to do!

The best thing is go to an existing page, now http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Cloke is a good one, but I went to in depth (Rup and Lonie are the only others) like this. But you can see the format.

At the start of making a page/profile, their is an AFL Template which is below for eg:
{{Infobox afl player | firstname = Luke
| lastname = Godden
| image = noimage
| image name =
| birthdate = [[September 21]], [[1978]]
| birthplace = [[Victoria]]
| originalteam = Northern U18
| dead = alive
| deathdate =
| deathplace =
| debutdate = Round 18, [[August 3]], [[1997]]
| debutteam = [[Collingwood Football Club|Collingwood]]
| debutopponent = [[St Kilda Saints|St Kilda]]
| debutstadium = [[Melbourne Cricket Ground]]
| playingteams = [[Collingwood Football Club|Collingwood]] (1997-99)

36 Games, 0 Goals

| coach = notcoach
| coachingteams =


| statsend = 2005
| careerhighlights = <BR>
}}

also, their are categories. and references that are easily added, but like myself, takes time to complete as good as you think you can, such as leaving out the refs and categories.

== External links ==
*{{Collplayer|ref=13176}}
*{{AflRleague|ref=J/Jason_Cloke.html}}

[[Category:1982 births|Cloke, Jason]]
[[Category:Collingwood Magpies players|Cloke, Jason]]

Collplayer template EL is easily copied, and change the number. The number, just go to CollingwoodFC, players page, and the last letters on the end of the players page link on CFC is the number after ref=

AFL League is also simple. It is stats.rleague stats ref of statistics. Just do it like Jason Cloke above. Letter of First Name/Name_Surname

Categories just mean they are chucked up in category lists, such as the 1982 births page, Cloke will be automatically inserted, and the Collingwood...., also easy to find when searching for players done.

If you dont get these, it is understandable, but you can always just write the info, the next time you view, it most likely will be fixed up with a couple edits

Wiki can be edited by anyone, so it is both a pro-and-con, but most people leave it alone, unless they want to add stuff missed. The main people on wiki, such as RogerThat and others will tend to be like moderators and check on info, add a bit there on things such as refs and cats.

Sounds like alot of work but you will no doubt get the hang of it.

[Lonie_from_50]

Richard Osborne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Osborne) done up!

[Lonie_from_50]

WP:AFL would like to get most of current players pages up. So it would be good if anyone could help.

The Collingwood Magpies 2006 Season (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collingwood_Magpies_2006_Season) article is also been done today.

[dids4]

why dont the pics work :(


awesome work btw guys.

[Lonie_from_50]

I have been in trouble with my pics, and considering they are from getty, copyright was breached. The only pics available for use are one's that are for public use (don't know where you can find them, digital cams are only hope really) or before 1955, pretty much!

[Lonie_from_50]

Current players that have been done:
Lonie
Didak
Buckley
Holland
Clement
Licuria* (needs work!)
Davies
Tarrant
Rocca
Johnson
Maxwell
T Cloke
J Cloke
Presti
H.Shaw
O'Brien

[Johnson#26]

Started one on Danny Stanley.

[Antonius]

I'm a Dons fan but I also signed up for WikiProject AFL - the site has so much potential. I've added a couple of articles myself.

Seriously it's not as hard as it looks, you can make an article like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Hodges which basically, you just type (no infoboxes or any stuff like that).

An awesome article I came across was Andrew Mackie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Mackie I'd never heard of him before but amazing how much information there is on that hack. If we can get info like that on all hacks (not saying he's a hack but he's not well-known)...that'll be awesome. All we have to rely on for player info at the moment is the crappy official AFL site, but wikiproject afl is looking the goods if we get it up and running.

btw lonie i looked at your contributions, great work :thumbsu:

[Lonie_from_50]

Yeah, a couple Geelong players have alot of info, and even Ryan Lonie and Alan Didak and Rupert Betheras I made with plenty of info.

I am actually thinking of cutting down on the three players mentioned above because it is at the stage where it is probably too much.

I am doing Rhyce Shaw now, and when done, I will think it is the best way to do players where you can have plenty of stuff chucked in, but all you need is a simple approach.

[Antonius]

Yeah, a couple Geelong players have alot of info, and even Ryan Lonie and Alan Didak and Rupert Betheras I made with plenty of info.

I am actually thinking of cutting down on the three players mentioned above because it is at the stage where it is probably too much.

I am doing Rhyce Shaw now, and when done, I will think it is the best way to do players where you can have plenty of stuff chucked in, but all you need is a simple approach.
I disagree - every bit of info you can get is great. I recommend you leave em as they are (you can never have too much info ;))

[Lonie_from_50]

Okay, I'll leave them...just that legends such as Bob Pratt will struggle to get info as much as that

[dids4]

what about footywire.com - arent their pics free to use?

[Antonius]

Okay, I'll leave them...just that legends such as Bob Pratt will struggle to get info as much as that
Don't think so, Pratt achieved a lot more than Benny Kinnear ever did ;) it just needs someone to write an article who knows their stuff - it seems there are mostly players from the 90's to today on there.

BTW, as for pictures, I'll probably take some at the footy to upload.

[Jabso]

The ones at AFL.com.au are for free use right?
Logos are also able to be used.
Could anyone please update the Collingwood logo?

[Lonie_from_50]

I will do my best jabso, considering i get pulled for copyrighted images, worth a try...

[Lonie_from_50]

What you reckon Jabso :D

[Lonie_from_50]

A

* Bruce Abernethy
* Lee Adamson
* Robert AhMat
* Graeme R. Anderson
* Alan Atkinson

B

* Doug Barwick
* Rupert Betheras
* Dermott Brereton
* Gavin Brown
* Nathan Buckley

C

* Phil Carman
* Brad Cassidy
* Michael Christian
* James Clement
* David Cloke
* Jason Cloke
* Travis Cloke
* Gordon Coventry
* Syd Coventry
* Scott Cummings

D

* Benjamin Davies
* Nick Davis
* Alan Didak

F

* Brad Fuller


G

* Luke Godden

H

* Brad Hardie
* Brodie Holland

J

* Craig Jacotine
* Ben Johnson

K

* Sam Kekovich
* David D. King
* Ben Kinnear
* Phonse Kyne

L

* Paul Licuria
* Matthew Lokan
* Ryan Lonie

M

* Josh Mahoney
* James Manson
* Nick Maxwell
* Jason McCartney
* Mark McGough
* Michael McGuane
* Jock McHale
* Peter McKenna
* Ian McMullin
* Ian McOrist
* Mal Michael
* Darren Millane
* Damian Monkhorst
* Shane Morwood


O

* Heritier O'Brien
* Richard Osborne

P

* Gary Pert
* Simon Prestigiacomo

R

* Frank Raso
* Jack Regan
* Lou Richards
* Wayne Richardson
* Danny Roach
* Anthony Rocca
* Saverio Rocca
* Bob Rose
* Harold Rumney

S

* Brenton Sanderson
* Andrew Schauble
* Heath Shaw
* Rhyce Shaw
* Tony Shaw

T

* Chris Tarrant
* Brian Taylor
* Len Thompson

W

* Mark M. Williams
* Paul Williams
* Shane Woewodin
* Tony Woods

[Antonius]

I will do my best jabso, considering i get pulled for copyrighted images, worth a try...
It says on there you can upload images of a Corporation's Logo or Stills from a Copyrighted Television/Movie production under the "fair use" act or something.

BTW for that page that lonie just quoted see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Collingwood_Magpies_players

[Lonie_from_50]

Scott Burns and Josh Fraser are done, as is Brad Rowe!

[Antonius]

BTW Lonie I think you should post this topic on the main board where it will be of more interest...it feels weird coming to the Collingwood board :p

[Lonie_from_50]

You already tried that ;) :p prjkt

[Antonius]

You already tried that ;) :p prjkt
Haha yeah I must have had a few cans under my belt when I wrote that....maybe they don't listen to n00bs like me? ;)

[Lonie_from_50]

There were some replies...

[Lonie_from_50]

BTW - Collingwood now has the most players done :thumbsu:

[Jabso]

Sweet. Great work Lonie. I have tried to get someone to do that through the edit discussion page.
If the image get's taken down it's because you haven't specified what terms of free usage it comes under. In this case it's something like corporate logo.

PS: FIGJAM, Nick, probably a good idea to sticky this. ;)

[Antonius]

The "projecekket" topic lives on http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=224242

;)

[Johnson#26]

Guys, internet connection working nicely once more - will look to contibute more when the time arises.

[Lonie_from_50]

Only a couple more 'current' Pies players are needed to be done, including Rowe, Swan, Wakes and a couple more. Players yet to play a senior match have not been done, except for Stanley :thumbsu:

[Johnson#26]

Lol ok - I bags Wakes! :p

I'm busy with writing a stack of things, ATM, but should be right soon. :)

[Lonie_from_50]

Current players to be done:

Dane Swan
Shane Wakelin
-----------------
John Anthony
Ryan Cook
Scott Pendlebury
Dale Thomas
Shannon Cox
Daniel Nicholls
Alan Toovey

The bottom players, do not attempt until they play a senior game.

[Hoggy]

Whoever did Wakes, I fixed up an error.

He wasn't traded to Collingwood, he was delisted and we picked him up in the National Draft.

[Lonie_from_50]

Rogerthat (the main man, non-pies supporter!) did Wakes just because he was the last required player, Nobody did him cos Johno said he would. It is only a stub, therefore, it is ready to be expanded/fixed anyway.

[Lonie_from_50]

Sorry for the big bump, but it is the summer, I have plenty of spare time when I'm not working, and yeah, have updated the the 2006 Collingwood Players (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Collingwood_Magpies_players) and have also finished on the Collingwood Magpies 2006 Season (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collingwood_Magpies_2006_Season) page.

Have added some more players, and have done major touch ups on Gavin Brown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_Brown_%28Australian_rules_footballer%29) and Gordon Coventry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Coventry).

[Lonie_from_50]

There is currently 130 Pies players done, which is the most of any club, but their are several high profiled players yet to be done, such as Brownlow Medallist Albert Collier, while his brother, Harry, needs a touch up as well.

[Jabso]

Is there any reason why Gordon was called nuts?

EDIT: I hate the wikinazis. They will delete photos, delete comments like "considered one of the greatest football players" because you have no source or seem to be unbalanced. Wikinazis have to realise that people don't write articles or publications on how great players are. The best some people can do in sports is write "was in the top 20 players" from some magazine, without actually saying they are considered one of the best players. The strict rules shouldn't apply to sporting pages.

[Lonie_from_50]

The AFL encyclopedia only tells us that he was nicknamed Nuts, as does the Collingwood encyclopedia, but no reasons as to why.

[Madd Matt]

The AFL encyclopedia only tells us that he was nicknamed Nuts, as does the Collingwood encyclopedia, but no reasons as to why.

Gordon's head was shaped like a nut, hence the nick name. :thumbsu:

EDIT: Just had a look, how come some players have "(Australian Rules Footballer)" or "(Footballer)" after their names?

[Lonie_from_50]

Gordon's head was shaped like a nut, hence the nick name. :thumbsu:

EDIT: Just had a look, how come some players have "(Australian Rules Footballer)" or "(Footballer)" after their names?

Sometimes for common names their is more than one famous personality, so things are sometimes chucked in brackets to identify. Look up Gavin Brown in the tiny search bar on the left, and you'll see what I mean...they're will be a couple to choose from.

[DThomas]

i can do dale thomas :D !!!

[red+black]

An article in today's Age newspaper (http://realfooty.com.au/news/news/pssst/2007/05/27/1180205059026.html) mentioned that later this year, Kevin Sheedy would overtake Jock McHale for most number of games as a player or coach. The stats put forward were:
Jock Kevin
McHale Sheedy
===============================
Player 261 251
+ Coach 714 621
- Captain-Coach 97 0
===============================
TOTAL MATCHES 878 872
Because it's from Craig Hutchison, of course the report is poorly researched and could not possibly be 100% accurate. For starters, my understanding is that Jock was only captain-coach for 2 years (1912-1913), and there are varying reports of how many games Jock played and coached. Some reports have Jock as having played 261 games and coached 714 games, others with 262 and 713 games respectively. So now I'm on a bit of a mission to detail Jock's playing and coaching career, so I will probably need some assistance. Please add or correct:
1903-1911: Player
1912-1913: Captain-Coach
1914-1918: Player-Coach
1919: Coach
1920: Player-Coach
1921-1949: Coach

Assumptions:
- did not play in 1903 Grand Final
- played every game in 1907-1916
- played sparingly in 1918
- did not play in 1919 Grand Final
- did not play in 1919 at all
- played sparingly in 1920

I could do it myself, but will leave for one of you guys, you might want to fix the Playing Career section on Jock's wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_McHale) which incorrectly states his playing career as 1903-21 and that he played 67 Games and kicked 4 goals.

[red+black]

OK, sorted out Jock's coaching career. Collingwood played 714 games between 1912 and 1949 and Jock was coach for every one of those games, bar two.

For some unknown reason, in 1930, Jock was unable to attend either the Round 7 or Round 14 game against Melbourne, and former player and current commitee man Bob Rush was match-day coach, and is credited as such in the record books.

Thus, at most, Jock coached 713 games.

However, Jock was struck with flu prior to the 1930 Grand Final challenge against Geelong and did not attend the match although Jock is still credited as being the match-day coach, rather than Bob Rush who addressed the players at half-time.

So, I believe Jock's record should show him as coaching 712 games, not 713 or 714, and Bob Rush as having coached 2 games for 2 wins including 1 premiership.

Still working on Jock's playing career.

[Jabso]

An article in today's Age newspaper (http://realfooty.com.au/news/news/pssst/2007/05/27/1180205059026.html) mentioned that later this year, Kevin Sheedy would overtake Jock McHale for most number of games as a player or coach. The stats put forward were:
Jock Kevin
McHale Sheedy
===============================
Player 261 251
+ Coach 714 621
- Captain-Coach 97 0
===============================
TOTAL MATCHES 878 872
Because it's from Craig Hutchison, of course the report is poorly researched and could not possibly be 100% accurate. For starters, my understanding is that Jock was only captain-coach for 2 years (1912-1913), and there are varying reports of how many games Jock played and coached. Some reports have Jock as having played 261 games and coached 714 games, others with 262 and 713 games respectively. So now I'm on a bit of a mission to detail Jock's playing and coaching career, so I will probably need some assistance. Please add or correct:
1903-1911: Player
1912-1913: Captain-Coach
1914-1918: Player-Coach
1919: Coach
1920: Player-Coach
1921-1949: Coach

Assumptions:
- did not play in 1903 Grand Final
- played every game in 1907-1916
- played sparingly in 1918
- did not play in 1919 Grand Final
- did not play in 1919 at all
- played sparingly in 1920

I could do it myself, but will leave for one of you guys, you might want to fix the Playing Career section on Jock's wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_McHale) which incorrectly states his playing career as 1903-21 and that he played 67 Games and kicked 4 goals.

OK, sorted out Jock's coaching career. Collingwood played 714 games between 1912 and 1949 and Jock was coach for every one of those games, bar two.

For some unknown reason, in 1930, Jock was unable to attend either the Round 7 or Round 14 game against Melbourne, and former player and current commitee man Bob Rush was match-day coach, and is credited as such in the record books.

Thus, at most, Jock coached 713 games.

However, Jock was struck with flu prior to the 1930 Grand Final challenge against Geelong and did not attend the match although Jock is still credited as being the match-day coach, rather than Bob Rush who addressed the players at half-time.

So, I believe Jock's record should show him as coaching 712 games, not 713 or 714, and Bob Rush as having coached 2 games for 2 wins including 1 premiership.

Still working on Jock's playing career.

To be honest I think it's a moot point how many Jock captain-coached as he is still the coach.

EDIT: I wasn't award Jock had the record for most games playing and coaching and that was the record you were talking about.

This is all the information I can gather:
-According to the Collingwood encyclopedia Jock payed 261 games from 1903-18 and 1920. He was captain coach for 1912-1913.

-Played a then record (I think still record at Collingwood) of 191 games consecutively over 11 years from 1906-1917. He debuted in 1903 meaning he played 70 games in years 1918-1920 and 1903-1905.

- At the end of 1911 Angus the captain coach left the club and they gave the position to McHale.


It seems he was a playing coach despite not being a captain. It is possible that records back then weren't that strict and that Jock could easily have been on the list as a player and maybe only play a game or two a season while he was coach (i.e. no delisting requirements, no salary cap etc.).

[red+black]

Believe me, if there's anything on the net, I've already found it. I will probably have to go to the Sports Bookshop on Flinders St or contact some statisticians to finish this off.

One thing is certain though, Jock (http://afl.allthestats.com/coaches/coach.php?id=21) should not be listed as having coached 714 matches (as per the wiki page), as Bob Rush (http://afl.allthestats.com/coaches/coach.php?id=82) is credited with coaching 1 game in 1930. It's 713 matches, or 712 considering he didn't attend the 1930 Grand Final challenge.

[doppleganger]

Believe me, if there's anything on the net, I've already found it. I will probably have to go to the Sports Bookshop on Flinders St or contact some statisticians to finish this off.

One thing is certain though, Jock (http://afl.allthestats.com/coaches/coach.php?id=21) should not be listed as having coached 714 matches (as per the wiki page), as Bob Rush (http://afl.allthestats.com/coaches/coach.php?id=82) is credited with coaching 1 game in 1930. It's 713 matches, or 712 considering he didn't attend the 1930 Grand Final.

Didn't Sheedy allow O'Donnel or Harvey to coach a game last year, but Sheedy was still credited with the game??

Jock was the coach of Collingwood when they played 714 games, how much coaching shouldn't really come into it should it??

[Jabso]

Believe me, if there's anything on the net, I've already found it. I will probably have to go to the Sports Bookshop on Flinders St or contact some statisticians to finish this off.

One thing is certain though, Jock (http://afl.allthestats.com/coaches/coach.php?id=21) should not be listed as having coached 714 matches (as per the wiki page), as Bob Rush (http://afl.allthestats.com/coaches/coach.php?id=82) is credited with coaching 1 game in 1930. It's 713 matches, or 712 considering he didn't attend the 1930 Grand Final challenge.

I got all that from The Official Collingwood Illustrated Encyclopedia.

[red+black]

Didn't Sheedy allow O'Donnel or Harvey to coach a game last year, but Sheedy was still credited with the game??

Jock was the coach of Collingwood when they played 714 games, how much coaching shouldn't really come into it should it??

Yes, I was dirty on Sheedy for not letting O'Donnell be credited as coach for the Bryce Gibbs Cup (2006 Rd 16 v Carlton). In Sheedy's favour though is that he was present at the game, although G O'D had match day duties.

With regards to Jock, if he wasn't at a game, then he's not the coach. Chris Connelly was credited as having coached 1 game for Hawthorn in 2001. The fact that Schwab coached the weeks before and after is irrelevant, he wasn't coach that day. The same logic should apply to Jock. Allan Jeans coached a very successful Hawthorn side between 1981 and 1990, yet he didn't coach in 1988. Who should be credited with those games, Jeans or Joyce?

Because I know what some of you are probably thinking, let me assure you that none of my research is an Essendon v Collingwood argument. I'm merely trying to collate accurate statistics, without bias.

[Jabso]

Yes, I was dirty on Sheedy for not letting O'Donnell be credited as coach for the Bryce Gibbs Cup (2006 Rd 16 v Carlton). In Sheedy's favour though is that he was present at the game, although G O'D had match day duties.

With regards to Jock, if he wasn't at a game, then he's not the coach. Chris Connelly was credited as having coached 1 game for Hawthorn in 2001. The fact that Schwab coached the weeks before and after is irrelevant, he wasn't coach that day. The same logic should apply to Jock. Allan Jeans coached a very successful Hawthorn side between 1981 and 1990, yet he didn't coach in 1988. Who should be credited with those games, Jeans or Joyce?

Because I know what some of you are probably thinking, let me assure you that none of my research is an Essendon v Collingwood argument. I'm merely trying to collate accurate statistics, without bias.

Just a question, are you sure the grand final he missed was actually counted in the first place?

[doppleganger]

Yes, I was dirty on Sheedy for not letting O'Donnell be credited as coach for the Bryce Gibbs Cup (2006 Rd 16 v Carlton). In Sheedy's favour though is that he was present at the game, although G O'D had match day duties.

With regards to Jock, if he wasn't at a game, then he's not the coach. Chris Connelly was credited as having coached 1 game for Hawthorn in 2001. The fact that Schwab coached the weeks before and after is irrelevant, he wasn't coach that day. The same logic should apply to Jock. Allan Jeans coached a very successful Hawthorn side between 1981 and 1990, yet he didn't coach in 1988. Who should be credited with those games, Jeans or Joyce?

Because I know what some of you are probably thinking, let me assure you that none of my research is an Essendon v Collingwood argument. I'm merely trying to collate accurate statistics, without bias.

The point i was trying to make was that Jock was still the coach, even if he didn't attend a game. The 1930 GF that he missed, the players still would have thought of him as the coach even though he wasn't at the game giving all the orders, they still would have played for Jock.

Just like even if Sheedy lets O'Donnell run things, everybody still realises that Sheedy was the coach of Essendon, even if it was O'Donnell giving the pre-game talk that day.

Jeans was the coach for a season, different scenario.

That is my two bobs worth anyway, not meant to be a sheedy v mchale thing either!

[red+black]

Just a question, are you sure the grand final he missed was actually counted in the first place?

From Round 1, 1912 (http://stats.rleague.com/afl/seas/1912.html#1), to the 1st Semi Final, 1949 (http://stats.rleague.com/afl/seas/1949.html#fin), Collingwood played 714 games in total, which includes all home & away matches, and finals. Jock was coach throughout this whole period, yet was not present at 2 games as I have explained above.

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OK, research complete.PLAYER
Debut: Round 1, 1903 v Carlton (loss)
Last: Round 1, 1920 v Essendon (loss)

Rounds Missed
Year Games Rounds
1903 5 5, 9-11, GF
1906 2 11-12
1917 9 3-4, 7-12, GF1
1918 15 1-6, 8-GF
1919 19 1-GF2
1920 18 2-GF

COACH
Debut: Round 1, 1912 v Melbourne (loss)
Last: 1st Semi Final, 1949 v Essendon (loss)

Rounds Missed
Year Games Rounds
1930 2 7 or 14 v Melbourne, GF2 v Geelong
Jock McHale Kevin Sheedy
Player: 261 games 251 games
Coach: 712* games 625# games
Both: 97 games 0 games
TOTAL 876 games 876 games

* excludes two games from 1930
# up to and including Round 12, 2007

The only contentious issues relate to the two games in 1930 where Jock was absent, presumably with flu. If I get around to it, I'll try and contact the AFL statistician and historian Col Hutchinson to get his perspective. Either way, Kevin Sheedy will pass Jock's record for games as player and/or coach. However, I think Jock's coaching record is safe because I can't see Sheedy being coach for another 4 years.

One odd thing of note, Jock's first and last games as a player and as a coach were all losses.