View Full Version : Are the Waugh's gone?
gocatsgo
2 Dec 2001, 20:03
I have been studying the current test side and there appears to be a couple of players who maybe aren't performing to their ability.
I speak of Captain Tugga Waugh and His little brother, Junior.
So far in this series, Tugga has managed 11 runs - an average of 3.66
Mark, while scoring a few more runs has never looked comfortable and has actually dropped a catch in slips - perish the thought.
While I admit they have been the greatest brothers to ever play for this country, isn't it about time they made way for the younger brigade - after all they are 37. Even AB had retired by this stage.
I am certainly of the belief both are hanging around just for the next World Cup, which to me seems a selfish attitude if this is the case.
Its about time, both decided to bite the bullet and gives the likes of Katich a go in the middle order. They had no trouble dishing Slater when he struggled for runs in England and it has proven to be the right move.
But surely, if we can't beat NEW ZEALAND on a perfect Perth pitch, something is wrong, and I see the problem as the middle order.
Also, while I'm having a bitch -
There seems to be an over relyance on the likes of Warne to take 4 or 5 wickets an innings, and McGrath to take 3 or so. They have both done it for a number of years, but both are now clearly struggling, and Brett Lee is now Australia's leading wicket taker.
For what I have seen of Lee, he is dynamite witht he new ball, perhaps, McGrath should be now used as first change.
I heard the commentators talk about perhaps using 5 batsmen, Gilchrist at 6 and 5 bowlers in Adelaide, so who will be the unlucky one?
It is quite clear that the openers are set for the summer and Ponting is the love child who will never be dropped (his tour of India proved that) Which leaves Waugh, Waugh and Martyn. I really fell of Damian Martyn as he has consistently been in top form (another 60 today) but you just get the feeling he will be the one who makes way.
Its time for Australia's weakest links to make way for the younger brigade.
Although you've been great for many years - It's Goodbye!
Victor Trumper
2 Dec 2001, 20:33
Border made 200 in a Test match four days before his 38th birthday. He played more Test cricket after this.
Ponting made a big hundred in the last Test.
If four bowlers can't win a Test, five won't.
If you are going to bag people at least get your fact's right.
We won't know until after the South African tests about the Waughs. But you're right. Lesser name players would already be under pressure to retain their spots on the form the Waughs are showing. Players like Katich, Hussey, Love and Symonds are already being overlooked, and it is at the expense of the future of the Australian team.
For Steve Waugh to come out and say he'd like to play until he's 40 is mad. It's a team game, not a Steve Waugh benefit. He was no doubt assuming ongoing Australian dominance, but what if that doesn't happen? Will he be seen in the end as the man who held up the progress of our team in the interest of boosting his stats? I think his burning desire is to become the highest run scorer ever. As well as the most successful captain. All well and good, but how long are we going to have to wait for that to happen?
Anyway, we'll see. I have said before that this is a very old team. Only Lee, Gillespie and Ponting are under 30. The next generation are already ageing. They're mostly untried at international level. Let's say a couple of them fail after the Waughs leave, and the next wave of retirements go through - McGrath, Warne, Langer, Hayden, and then Gilchrist and Martyn (if he's still around). There'll be no gradual easing in of youngsters - they'll be right in the firing line. It could be the early to mid 80's all over again.
There's something wrong with McGrath, either mentally or physically, and Warne is no longer as effective as he used to be. Warne is safe, because there's no real alternative to him right now (unless you count McGill), but we're going to want to start thinking about who replaces McGrath. Whoever it is, they won't be as good as he is at his best, so the bowling attack will be weakened. And the pressure goes up on Gillespie and Lee to carry the attack. They're both prone to injury.
We need an all rounder. We also need bowling stocks. Bracken is up there, as is Clark and a couple of others. It's time we stopped looking at Bichel and Kasprowicz and started grooming someone, though.
The crisis is still a couple of years away. But we really ought to prepare for it now.
For about 3 years now Steve Waugh has been a hit or miss batsmen. He either gets 100+ or he gets under 5. No in between. Always either 100+ or under 8.
Mark Waugh...i dont rate him....he never NEVER scores in the crucial tests. He always scores big in the dead rubbers but goes missing in the first few tests.
gocatsgo
2 Dec 2001, 20:57
While the facts may me something awry Victor, you can't ignore the points that RogerC and myself are proposing.
For starters, Ponting SHOULD have been out of the third test against India, his performances were a disgrace, yet they persisted and persisted.
His next decent score did not come until the 4th test of the Ashes series, which ironically we lost, he did nothing to win the Ashes.
But it is clear he is on the IN with the selectors who despite his form lapses will never be dropped (similar to Mark Taylor).
Yet the likes of Martyn who has only ever done one thing wrong in his whole test career - going out against South Africa in Sydney - seemed confined to always being the first on the chopping block when we lose the odd game.
The fact remains, on current form Steve Waugh should not be in the test team, neither should Mark Waugh, yet they are in because of their name and reputation alone. Its not as though New Zealand have hit us with seering pace or dynamite spin, yet they have both failed dismally this series, yet it has been overlooked because of the form of Langer, Hayden, Ponting and Gilchrist. Sudddenly when none of these players get hundreds, look what happens? the rest of the batting are vulnerable and we rely on Warn to score 99 to AVOID THE FOLLOW ON. This should never happen.
How often have the bowlers saved out batting skins in recent tests?
Its time to bring in the new blood and retire off the old.
Originally posted by Victor Trumper
If four bowlers can't win a Test, five won't.
Talking of meaningless cliches to win a test you have to take twenty wickets.
That said I like six batsman, the extra batsman strengthens a team far more than an extra bowler unless you perceive taking the third new ball regularly. Australian success for as long as I can remember has revolved around two world class wicket taking bolwers and a long batting order. It is demoralising having Australia five down and a genuine wicket keeper/batsman coming out to the crease.
Considering all the Australian bowlers average 25 for their wickets why would you bother changing? Considering Australia just won umpteen tests in row, and another Ashes, it is a bit early to hit the panic button just yet.
The only commentator I have heard advocating Australia using only five batsman is Ian Smith, hardly an authority on Australian cricket.
Bagging champions like the Waugh's, McGrath, Warne, sweet music to my ears.
tiger of old
3 Dec 2001, 08:33
what i saw of mark waugh when he was struck on the body isnt the same mark waugh we are use to.surely while it was only one incident it was an indication that his response time is starting to go into decline.
i would say this will be his last test series this year i do believe he hasnt got that desire to play on as his brother steve has.
steve is a very tough one.sure he has made bugger all this series but he has the reputation of bringing the best out of himself when the side needs it. dont be suprised if he comes out and make a 100 in the 2nd innings.
as for his future i would say the selectors would rather let mark go 1st then 12-18 months time once the likes of katich have had a good taste at test level steve will go.
we still have great depth batting wise in australia i dont see no problem there.
but yes our bowling is the biggest worry despite dizzy and lee being young enuff to carry the attack once mcgrath goes.
cheers!
Ummm, Mark did score 40+ yesterday and had a good series in England. So he's has a couple of bad innings....big deal. Look at how bad Ponting has been going and yet no-one wants to drop him.
They will both get runs against SA, they are quality players.
Originally posted by Briedis
Look at how bad Ponting has been going and yet no-one wants to drop him.
I DO :mad: :mad: :mad:
Interesting point made on another board. Lee and Gillespie's averages are starting to drift up. Gillespie's is 24.73, and Lee's is 23.54. Still impressive, but not as impressive as they have been. Gillespie's was in the very low 20s and Lee's best (not that long ago) was 16.something.
Before Lee's injury, his second spells were devastating. He just doesn't have the impact any longer. Having to adjust his action to preserve his back has robbed him of some venom. Plus, opposing batsman are not as surprised by his speed, and they are prepared for it. Add to that his wayward tendency, and it means patient batsmen can wait and pick him off.
Gilllespie is probably the pick of the Australian bowlers right now. He'll inherit the mantle from McGrath of premier strike bowler - and along with that the onus not to be injured. McGrath's fitness and injury free run has been our major bowling advantage. Like Hadlee for New Zealand, McGrath has carried our fast bowling hopes for the last few years.
Great fast bowlers don't have averages above 25. (Thommo is an exception, but there are few) Lee and Gillespie are hovering ever closer to that area. They'll want to get some bags soon. And anyone who thinks there's easy pickings amongst the South Africans is fooling himself.
Steve Waugh's the captain. Enough Said.
Remember Mark Taylor's run of failures? How long did they persist with him?
M. Waugh is on 72* and keeping Australia in the match. Yet ANOTHER example of his class. Let's hope he goes on with it today....
Im waiting for the day Greg Blewett is back in the side
To those who are saying we should drop Ponting, I heard on the radio he has Australia's highest average for the series. He did make an unbeaten hundred in Hobart and he has been in good touch. He is just being slightly careless and getting out when he looks dangerous.
Originally posted by vanders
Im waiting for the day Greg Blewett is back in the side
That will be when 'HELL FREEZES OVER' :p
GoEagles
4 Dec 2001, 23:35
IMO Mark will leave the test scene before Steve does. Even if Mark gets shafted from the test team, I think he'll still be around in the one day game for at least the next 2 years.
Glad they both got some runs on the board today, will give them some confidence against South Africa... hopefully!