View Full Version : Times Up Krak
Surely ....
In his sixth year and ritually struggles .
I`ve got a bigger engine in my Victa .
Norm Gallagher had a bigger work rate
Gets rag-dolled ...... surely time has to be up with him .
Seriously .... how could they go any worse than playing Meyer , Polo or Tambling ?
Has to go this week ... he is holding back our development
tigerboyz
8 Apr 2006, 01:10
I told you a few months ago he needed to get consistency,well he's done that now he's consistently crap.
Surely ....
In his sixth year and ritually struggles .
I`ve got a bigger engine in my Victa .
Norm Gallagher had a bigger work rate
Gets rag-dolled ...... surely time has to be up with him .
Seriously .... how could they go any worse than playing Meyer , Polo or Tambling ?
Has to go this week ... he is holding back our development
Havent seen the entire game yet but my crosshair has been fixed on him for nearly a year and based on your counterintelligence I'm pulling the trigger. Send the litte horses hoof back to coburg.
Havent seen the entire game yet but my crosshair has been fixed on him for nearly a year and based on your counterintelligence I'm pulling the trigger. Send the litte horses hoof back to coburg.CCCCCRRRRHHHHSSSS ..... Roger that ... over and out ...CCCRRSSHHHHH
U2 Tigers
8 Apr 2006, 01:14
I agree.
And it has been this for a while now.
When he plays a match and hes on the field, its like we are playing with 17 players for 99% of that time.
Lazy, Lazy.
Kurtis G
8 Apr 2006, 01:25
I agree.
And it has been this for a while now.
When he plays a match and hes on the field, its like we are playing with 17 players for 99% of that time.
Lazy, Lazy.
Im not sure about lazy. He does tackle pretty hard, but he doesnt seem up to AFL level.
He isnt showing explosive pace and certainly isnt kicking goals. He needs some time in the VFL, bring Tambling back in. We really lack a decent crummer. We would win so many more games if our little blokes could actually kick goals off the deck.
If we did want to offload him I reckon he would have a bit of trade value, especially to the Kangaroos. I doubt we would get a first round pick for him but second for sure.
If we did want to offload him I reckon he would have a bit of trade value, especially to the Kangaroos. I doubt we would get a first round pick for him but second for sure.
If he wasn`t tied up on a ridiculous long term contract i`m sure he would have been off-loaded last year .
Unfortunately i only see his value diminishing .
Hopefully Danny gets into someones ear down at Moorabin
Im not sure about lazy. He does tackle pretty hard, but he doesnt seem up to AFL level.
He has lungs like Skasey. He has three things going for him.
1) He is a son of a gun.
2) He is aboriginal and I really believe has been given the benefit of the doubt as some of these boys take a while to find their feet in the AFL, but are undeniably capable of the spectacular. Also extenuating circumstances with his complex family situation.
3) He can tackle, as you pointed out.
I think this comes back to the lack of courage we have had in some of our recruiting decisions. At the end of last season, I think we could have got a 2nd round pick for him. For means of comparison, another rough-around-the-edges player, Richie Cole, went for pick 23. I would rate Krak higher than Cole. If Krak continues in this form then we cannot really expect anything for him were we to go to the table at the end of the season.
He tackles well but doesn't have the engine to play midfield yet which limits him and at the moment our forward line isn't functioning well so its hard for him to crumb. He places himself in the right positions but when it hits the deck there are too many opposition players surrounding him and therefore he is tackled
Kurtis G
8 Apr 2006, 01:52
He has potential, we cannot deny that. But it seems like no amount of motivation can help him win good footy and kick goals. He polished off a few in games we had already won last season, which made his season look better than it was. I dont think Terry will drop Krakeour, but he will be under close scruntiny as he didnt have a sparkling pre-season and his performances have been lacking any real heart.
I do hope he picks up his game though, because he does have potential. We traded Ottens on potential, perhaps we can do the same for Krak :)
Punt_Road_Roar
8 Apr 2006, 02:20
Even the channel 9 commentators said he needed to work harder.
We dont need him and are better off with someone else, what sucks is to see someone like Thursty go down trying his guts out tonight yet a lazy prick like Krakeour will still get a game next week. :thumbsd:
You cant go making a career out of someone who only contributes about 4 decent tackles a game.
I think this comes back to the lack of courage we have had in some of our recruiting decisions. At the end of last season, I think we could have got a 2nd round pick for him.
No one was going to take his contract off our hands. Krakouer was in all probability the most untradeable player in the league last year as a result.
Typical game from him really. Tackled and chased well. Put pressure on defenders. Got some clearances when he went on the ball. Did a couple of nice things on the HFF. However it doesn't add up to a full game.
If he could do what he does for 100 minutes he'd be handy. The 30 minutes we get from him makes him a passenger for too much of the game.
He isnt showing explosive pace and certainly isnt kicking goals. He needs some time in the VFL, bring Tambling back in. We really lack a decent crummer. We would win so many more games if our little blokes could actually kick goals off the deck.
I think the days of crumbing forwards are almost over. There aren't the long bombs to pack-contests that there used to be. There isn't the time and space in the forward-50 that there used to be. With all the flooding, zoning, spare defenders and emphasis on not kicking to contests the crumbers are cactus. If they get their hands on it there are 5 opponents ready to mug them.
It will soon reach the point where the definition of a good crumber is one who can force a ball-up, not one who kicks a goal.
tigerboyz
8 Apr 2006, 09:45
No one was going to take his contract off our hands. Krakouer was in all probability the most untradeable player in the league last year as a result.
Typical game from him really. Tackled and chased well. Put pressure on defenders. Got some clearances when he went on the ball. Did a couple of nice things on the HFF. However it doesn't add up to a full game.
If he could do what he does for 100 minutes he'd be handy. The 30 minutes we get from him makes him a passenger for too much of the game.
I think it's because he can't run out a full game so you have question his fitness and like I said in a thread I started about him months ago about his attitude towards playing at the elite level,he just seems to take everthing for granted.
Darth_Tiger
8 Apr 2006, 10:07
yep cant agree more. offload the passenger. make him earn his way back through the vfl. if we could trade him and gas at the end of the year it would be good.
Bojangles17
8 Apr 2006, 10:47
im now inclined to agree, there are a number of midfield options that could be tried in his place...quite simply not enough output from Krak...and not even a goal in two games...we saw Jackson step up with the opportunity...whats to say polo or Meyer wouldnt do the same..:thumbsu:
Tormented Tiger
8 Apr 2006, 11:53
Watching Kraks last night I noticed every time he went down low into a pack he was harrassed by 2-3 Sainters who weren't giving him an inch of room. Everytime the ball came quickly into the forward line he was left to fight off 2-3 Sainters. I can now see why you guys don't rate Kraks as he is lazy and his work effort and ability is not good enough to beat the 2-3 defenders put there to stop him. :eek:
RodneyDangerfield
8 Apr 2006, 12:01
[Look hes not going great,but we cannot do without his defensive pressure atm.You certainly won't get that from Mary Tambling.
If we did want to offload him I reckon he would have a bit of trade value, especially to the Kangaroos. I doubt we would get a first round pick for him but second for sure.
No thanks,he wouldn't get a game at the Kangaroos anyway.Who would he replace? Harvey? Wells? I think not.And if Nathan Thompson went for a second rounder,I'm sure Krakouer wouldn't.
Still does a lot of unnoticed things.
keeps the ball in play on a two on one until a team mate arrives which forces a ball up. Neutral is better than opposition possesion.
Still good enough to get a game in that team.
tomthetiger
8 Apr 2006, 14:21
I do agree however that our forward line structure makes it hard for crumbers.
Did some good work in the third quarter at the bottom of packs, but didn't work hard enough to get the ball or get to enough contests. Time for a few games at coburg and leave him there till he racks up a few high possession games.
keeps the ball in play on a two on one until a team mate arrives which forces a ball up. Neutral is better than opposition possesion.
And this is so critical as we strive for future world domination :rolleyes:
deliberate!!
9 Apr 2006, 18:05
*splash* :eek:
(Sound of Krak being pushed off end of pier)
...........next !!................
itsintheblood
9 Apr 2006, 22:13
Surely ....
In his sixth year and ritually struggles .
I`ve got a bigger engine in my Victa .
Norm Gallagher had a bigger work rate
Gets rag-dolled ...... surely time has to be up with him .
Seriously .... how could they go any worse than playing Meyer , Polo or Tambling ?
Has to go this week ... he is holding back our development
Krakouer lost me last year. Ive been calling for him to be axed for ages now. He's carried in this side at the expense of another kid who could be gaining valuable game time instead of this lazy excuse of a footballer.
True Thylacine
10 Apr 2006, 09:56
I replayed the game twice on the weekend but obviously it must have been the wrong game cos he seemed to do some pretty handy in and under stuff to me. No he cant run extended minutes in the midfield, wish he could, but his hands are magic at the stoppages and created at least 2 goals. Not first picked but certainly not immediate cannon fodder. Patty and Petts kicks some so I am happy so long as someone does. Browny and Krak havent yet but I am sure they will at some point. Our average players are as important as the stars and the bar is rising slowly. I actually thought Cogs struggled more. Took 1 nice mark but missed an absolute key goal that should have been money for jam.
True Thylacine
10 Apr 2006, 10:22
Forget to mention but I have to...after watchin it over....how bloody good is Tuck, and especially when the going got tough. He has hardly been mentioned in threads but he stood bloody tall IMHO. He seems to have lost nothing from last season thank God. Shame about the "do" though ahhaa. Looks like a Major Mitchell in full flight hahaa
Bojangles17
10 Apr 2006, 10:38
we hear every year that the games gets quicker, well I actually think that the game has passed by young Krak...he has never been blessed with that pace out of the box, so important for a damaging forward.
As the game has become more congested down forward with sides flooding back more than ever...krak simply cant find any space.
Might be right time to give young Roach a go...has got pace and now with some experience just might be able to turn it on....lets leave JON for a few more rounds yet..
CoggaRules
10 Apr 2006, 11:11
Watching Kraks last night I noticed every time he went down low into a pack he was harrassed by 2-3 Sainters who weren't giving him an inch of room. Everytime the ball came quickly into the forward line he was left to fight off 2-3 Sainters. I can now see why you guys don't rate Kraks as he is lazy and his work effort and ability is not good enough to beat the 2-3 defenders put there to stop him. :eek:
its good to see there are some that actually see what is happening on the field, instaed of looking at stats to see what is happening on the field.
There are plenty of tiger heads that just dont get it.
He needs help, not help in the essence of "just" another player, i.e. Petts, he needs help in the essence of a player that takes 1 of those 2-3 defenders away. ;)
CoggaRules
10 Apr 2006, 11:11
sorry double up post
its good to see there are some that actually see what is happening on the field, instaed of looking at stats to see what is happening Excuse me for my ignorance Cogga
I didn`t realise that an opinion differing from yours meant one knew f..k all about footy .
Suitably chastened
CoggaRules
10 Apr 2006, 11:22
Excuse me for my ignorance Cogga
I didn`t realise that an opinion differing from yours meant one knew f..k all about footy .
Suitably chastened
didnt say i disagree man, just suggested that there are tiger heads that watch what is happening when Krak is near the ball.
The opposition knows all to well who they really need to keep their eye on, since he is the only one on our HF line with a decent dose of classy skills that can hurt them. Brownie is still coming into form, so it leaves the likes of Petts and the "new dimension" Pat Bowden, LOL, to bamboozle the oppostion with their silky skills. ;)
I'm the Juggernaut
10 Apr 2006, 12:26
Needs to be dropped to try and find some, any form. Like the kid but he's had enough chances. Doesn't try hard enough
The Dice Man
11 Apr 2006, 12:17
Interestingly he is the leading Hard Ball Get man at our club after 2 Rnds...
9 - A.Krakouer
7 - B.Deledio
7 - N.Foley
6 - G.Tivendale
5 - S.Tuck
roostertalk
11 Apr 2006, 16:07
Interestingly he is the leading Hard Ball Get man at our club after 2 Rnds...
9 - A.Krakouer
7 - B.Deledio
7 - N.Foley
6 - G.Tivendale
5 - S.Tuck
Nice to see a few people with half a brain contributing to this dribble of a post. I guess its typical of our historically fickle attitudes to be calling for his head but anybody with any football credibiltiy would argue he was well and truely one of our most effective and efficient contributors last friday.
Not sure if you all noticed his 7 tackles that were all vital in lulling a midfield that in recent years has utterly destroyed us. His slick hands that as thyaline mentioned set up at least two goals. His attack on the ball was unquestionable and i without a doubt i think our midfield worked best when he was is in it.
Those calling passenger really have to watch the game closer and reward the guys that do unrewarded things, he's a selfless footballer that has a krak week in week out. not everybody has a tank like crawford,70 minutes of him on song is better then none of him at all.
soapyJNR
12 Apr 2006, 01:37
We are 2 rounds into a season......
Please stop the whingeing and the "lets drop Krakouer" drivel.
The fact is we have him and he tackles in the mid-field and forward line which is where we bleed the most at the minute.. he does not thrive on the docklands swamp his home is the G like many of our players wher he has space to hurt teams with his flashes of brilliance.
We don't kick enough goals and he is a genuine goal sneek. Generally a high tackle count means you are chasing bums all day but Krak actually tackles anyone with the ball which makes him an asset to our soft approach. His tackling is currently better than Mr "Right Here,Right Now" Deledio's delivery by foot to team mates.
Start this talk in 15 rounds time when it is relevant.
Bottom line is we have got to deliver the ball better to the right targets in order to kick goals and win games.
corporal
12 Apr 2006, 10:03
At least we only signed up for $750,000 over three years,
An absolute bargain for a slow small forward who doesn't kick goals but holds his spot in the side purely on "defensive pressure"!.
I hope he comes good but he has more faith and game time then most and repayed little other then the odd good 1 percenter here and there.
CoggaRules
12 Apr 2006, 10:35
At least we only signed up for $750,000 over three years,
An absolute bargain for a slow small forward who doesn't kick goals but holds his spot in the side purely on "defensive pressure"!.
I hope he comes good but he has more faith and game time then most and repayed little other then the odd good 1 percenter here and there.
if we had another that could offer the same, maybe just maybe we could hold the ball inisde our F50 a little longer.
Our age old problem is that teams just waltz out of our F50 at their leisure and eveyone is jumping up and down on the one player that offers most of it, on his own.
duckboy
13 Apr 2006, 17:15
The selectors have agreed. Dropped. Not even an emergency.
The selectors have agreed. Dropped. Not even an emergency.Finally :rolleyes:
What gets me with people that defend him is ... the good old Richmond mindset .
He gets f-all of the pill ... he`s slow ..... he struggles to run out barely half a game but HEY ! ... he is good in the clinches and tackles well .
You know why he tackles well ??? ... coz he is second to the f..ken ball all the time thats why .
Kellaway ... god knows i love both of them ... courage personified ... but more flaws than Bush`s foreign policy .
Modern footballers have to be a package .
1# ... they must be able to kick a ball and hit a target
2# ... they must be "fit" and be able to run out four solid quarters
3# ... they must be able to adhear to a "game plan"
4# ... they must possess leg speed
How many Richmond players over the years would possess 1 or 2 of those attributes but not have the full Package ?
Sick of it .
Krakouers deficiances more than outweigh his strengths ... as do the bulk of our senior players
This is why we are schithouse ... until they are all gone , and we stock up on modern footballers , we will continue to be schithouse .
idgaf you speak sense mate
keep it up
Terry Tan
14 Apr 2006, 10:44
Finally :rolleyes:
What gets me with people that defend him is ... the good old Richmond mindset .
He gets f-all of the pill ... he`s slow ..... he struggles to run out barely half a game but HEY ! ... he is good in the clinches and tackles well .
You know why he tackles well ??? ... coz he is second to the f..ken ball all the time thats why .
Kellaway ... god knows i love both of them ... courage personified ... but more flaws than Bush`s foreign policy .
Modern footballers have to be a package .
1# ... they must be able to kick a ball and hit a target
2# ... they must be "fit" and be able to run out four solid quarters
3# ... they must be able to adhear to a "game plan"
4# ... they must possess leg speed
How many Richmond players over the years would possess 1 or 2 of those attributes but not have the full Package ?
Sick of it .
Krakouers deficiances more than outweigh his strengths ... as do the bulk of our senior players
This is why we are schithouse ... until they are all gone , and we stock up on modern footballers , we will continue to be schithouse .
HALLELUJAH BROTHER!
You're right - we're schithouse.
more flaws than Bush`s foreign policy .
.
And they would be?
And they would be?for a mod you have a real chip on your shoulder sunshine
Maybe you better have a little think about it
One to many knock backs from Froars hey ?
GhostofJimJess
14 Apr 2006, 21:52
Finally :rolleyes:
What gets me with people that defend him is ... the good old Richmond mindset .
He gets f-all of the pill ... he`s slow ..... he struggles to run out barely half a game but HEY ! ... he is good in the clinches and tackles well .
You know why he tackles well ??? ... coz he is second to the f..ken ball all the time thats why .
Kellaway ... god knows i love both of them ... courage personified ... but more flaws than Bush`s foreign policy .
Modern footballers have to be a package .
1# ... they must be able to kick a ball and hit a target
2# ... they must be "fit" and be able to run out four solid quarters
3# ... they must be able to adhear to a "game plan"
4# ... they must possess leg speed
How many Richmond players over the years would possess 1 or 2 of those attributes but not have the full Package ?
Sick of it .
Krakouers deficiances more than outweigh his strengths ... as do the bulk of our senior players
This is why we are schithouse ... until they are all gone , and we stock up on modern footballers , we will continue to be schithouse .
I've posted something similar to this in the past, but feel the need to reiterate my thoughts on the matter because the issue of "high tackle count" just keeps popping up. So I'll keep "popping up" my response.
Don't get me wrong - I'm certainly no great defender of Andy Krakuoer, as I agree he just doesn't do enough throughout the entire 120 minutes of a football game, and never has. He plays a burst here and there, and then seems to go missing for large chunks of the action. So in that sense, I agree with him being dropped, even if it's just to send a message. Dunno if it'll work on Andy, but what else do you do. It obviously wasn't Frawley's fault in his case.
Anyway, back to the tackling issue. Once upon a time, the oldtimers preached the message that if you had a lot of tackles, it was essentially a bad thing. It simply meant you were second to the ball and always chasing tail.
However, in this more statistically insightful (and less individually accountable, mind you) period in time, it has been revealed that each side pretty much has the ball for as long and about as many times as each other.
A high tackle count, therefore, tends to indicate that a team is causing an undue number of turnovers. Turnovers, in this day and age where defenders more regularly run off their men and upfield are worth their weight in gold, as what results for the team causing the turnover is a whole bunch of freed-up forwards ... and better still - no time for the other mob to get their blokes back for the flood.
Ask any current successful coach - whether it be seniors or Under 18's - and they will invariably have 'tackles made' as a major KPI. In fact, often the correlation between this stat and 'goals kicked' is remarkably strong.
for a mod you have a real chip on your shoulder sunshine
Maybe you better have a little think about it
One to many knock backs from Froars hey ?
Kellaway's flaws are his dubious kicking and what else??? I can't think of any other. Maybe a little slow but hey he ain't a midfielder.
I think you are being to harsh on him.
And as for personal insults - well that speaks for itself.
And as for personal insults - well that speaks for itself.Therein lies the root of this evil .
Are you the self appointed champion of the underdog here or do you have some sort of personal gripe against me ? ... coz if you do i am blowed if i can remember where it comes from :confused:
I have only ever been respectful towards you ..... so i await your response with interest :thumbsu:
Now remember mod boy ... don`t let it get personal ;)
Whether you think Andy is great or not, there are many occasions when his form hasn't been up to scratch and for long periods of time. But you can't blame Andy for this. Blame those that pick the side every week and keep on naming non-performers. We saw it with Tivva last year and we're still putting up with it. Until he's told to go back to the seconds, get some bloody intensive fitness regime going, he will be much the same for time immemorial. He had too many cuddles from Frawley and this is the result.