View Full Version : Concerns with Pavlich?
Now I know he has had an interrupted pre-season with his shoulder, and the players upfield aren't doing him any favours with their stuffing around, but it seems to me he is disinterested in playing and I can't help thinking the often mentioned back-to-Adelaide talk would be favouring him going back.
I live in Brisbane so can only go on what I see on TV, but he seems to not really be putting in 100%, with half-hearted attempts in marking contests and no second-efforts. I'd like to think I'm wrong, but that's my observation. Is it that he has made 20 leads and is buggered by the time the ball finally gets down there to a 1-on-3, or do other people think he looks like a man not too happy about playing for us?
Is it worth keeping the worst coach in the comp if it means losing your best player? I'm not trying to have a go at Pav, just my thoughts on the matter, last year he was sensational and I hope he can replicate that form.
JuddyisGod
10 Apr 2006, 14:26
I think he's just had a couple off games after a limited pre-season. Pav has proved time and time again what a quality player he is and i think his return to form will not be far off. I think Pav is quite committed to Freo also, he seems very well settled in Perth, and owns a pub with Haselby so I don't think a return to Adelaide is likely.
However he did say that if his contract had run out after the season where the Dockers won 2 games, he would most likely have gone back to Adelaide. So perhaps a bad year by the Dockers could force him home.
kanabar
10 Apr 2006, 16:40
just give him a few more rounds just that rihgt now our midfield is not making best use of him he will pick it up soon
as for loosing him i doubt it he will sign up with us long term all depends on how we do this and next year.
how long is he signed up for?
malpaso
10 Apr 2006, 16:50
Few things to consider:
1) Opposition are playing loose men in front of him.
2) Our midfield are not delivering the ball when he is free or one-on-one as they just spent a half kicking to him in 3-on-1 contests.
3) Our coaching staff have not 'moved' him out of the forward line often enough so that he will get a 1-on-1 elsewhere. This may be because the oppositions intent is to get Pavlich out of the forward line..
4) In general our forwards are not leading effectively.
As soon as we start making oppositions pay for playing loose men in defense, pavlich will start to fire.
dominguez
10 Apr 2006, 19:51
Opposition sides are playing 3 defenders on him instead of 2. Being a star player under Connolly must be frustrating. Why wouldn't you just play someone 10 metres infront of Pavlich and tell them to lead early taking a defender away from Pav?
He's contracted until the end of 2007, although if we miss the 8 and don't sign a big name coach he will probably ask to be traded.
mathew20
10 Apr 2006, 20:12
He is pi++ed off just like 90% of the supporters the other 10% and the coach still think we are going on a journey to fantacy land
collo21
10 Apr 2006, 22:15
i think some of you are forgetting that harvey is still in the box and has imput in all areas of coaching, if he is our magical savior and connolly is the devil in disguise, then he isnt putting his hand up early is he...and matt20 you come on here in the last 2 week and bag the s h i t out of connolly in everypost you make:rolleyes: settle down and all you connolly haters just hang of untill after the next 6 weeks, and if we still show nothing then it is warented
Leave him home this week. We'll get flogged. No diff.
dominguez
11 Apr 2006, 00:54
i think some of you are forgetting that harvey is still in the box and has imput in all areas of coaching, if he is our magical savior and connolly is the devil in disguise, then he isnt putting his hand up early is he...and matt20 you come on here in the last 2 week and bag the s h i t out of connolly in everypost you make:rolleyes: settle down and all you connolly haters just hang of untill after the next 6 weeks, and if we still show nothing then it is warented
Any inexperienced coach who has 2 bad seasons in a row shouldn't get the opportunity to have a third. It's that simple. At the end of 2004 many people had their doubts about Connolly, and when his contract was extended early last year some people were angry. By signing Connolly when it wasn't warranted the club created a lot of animosity towards Connolly/Schwabb/Hart.
I don't think Harvey is the messiah like some people do, but he couldn't be any worse. Sure Harvey is in the box, but it doesn't mean he doesn't come up with good ideas. It's Connolly's job to pick up the phone, and CC is like a deer in the head lights on match day. I guess we won't know if Harvey is good on match day until he gets a senior role.
My preference is for Connolly to finish the season, then appoint an experienced coach (unless we play in a pre-lim, which is extremely unlikely).
Any inexperienced coach who has 2 bad seasons in a row shouldn't get the opportunity to have a third. It's that simple. .
The Cats are probably happy they are not as quick on the trigger as you.
Cats fans were calling for Bombre Thompsons head three rounds into his 5th season when they were 0-3 and 16th.
They did of course go on the lose a PF.
http://allthestats.com/coaches/coach.php?id=299
refresh
11 Apr 2006, 02:21
what annoys me with CC is we are so static. If game day does not go according to thursday night selection committee planning we are in trouble. Can anyone think of an occaision CC has changed the course of a game when things have gone wrong during the game.
mathew20
11 Apr 2006, 02:21
i think some of you are forgetting that harvey is still in the box and has imput in all areas of coaching, if he is our magical savior and connolly is the devil in disguise, then he isnt putting his hand up early is he...and matt20 you come on here in the last 2 week and bag the s h i t out of connolly in everypost you make:rolleyes: settle down and all you connolly haters just hang of untill after the next 6 weeks, and if we still show nothing then it is warented
i have been callling for his chop since june last year not just the last 2 weeks but you are right give him 6 weeks ....then we sack him
Now I know he has had an interrupted pre-season with his shoulder, and the players upfield aren't doing him any favours with their stuffing around, but it seems to me he is disinterested in playing and I can't help thinking the often mentioned back-to-Adelaide talk would be favouring him going back.
I didn't get to see the game last weekend, so I can't really comment on his body language during that game. The stats say he has been quiet though.
At the risk of being overly cynical, if Pav is genuinely keen to head back to Adelaide, we can expect him to play a couple of blinders over the next couple of weeks. If its a problem with fitness/form/team balance/the alignment of the stars then I would expect his performances will gradually ramp up over the next month or so.
theGav56
11 Apr 2006, 11:40
The Cats are probably happy they are not as quick on the trigger as you.
Cats fans were calling for Bombre Thompsons head three rounds into his 5th season when they were 0-3 and 16th.
They did of course go on the lose a PF.
http://allthestats.com/coaches/coach.php?id=299
Spot on. What annoys me with the CC baggers is when they are asked to name who they see as replacing him, the only likely names are people like Sumich and Harvey. There is no reason to think they are going to be better coaches. CC should and will get until the end of the year. It was humiliating how we changed coaches mid year with drum, got us nowhere and lacks integrity.
I am stunned the number of supporters who expect the team to be playing at its peak 2nd week in. from my perspective, we won ugly last week and have lots of room for improvement, especially if the players listen to the coaches.
I am stunned the number of supporters who expect the team to be playing at its peak 2nd week in. from my perspective, we won ugly last week and have lots of room for improvement, especially if the players listen to the coaches.
Agree with where you are coming from.
We are playing very so so, but are we in such bad shape as the media portrays?. If everyone was busting a gut and we were still getting beaten, we have a big problem. We have had an ugly 2 weeks, but we still have alot of improvement left in the players and team work.
It is amazing what can happen if some of the "better" players put in a 5% better effort, it has a snowball effect. At the moment I would say it is the "workers" who are doing most of the work, the stars are yet to put on the afterburners.
Yep alot of people have CC in their sights, but just imagine others coaches are doing worse. eg. Daniher & Wallet.
I think everyone is underestimating the shoulder op he had in the off season...+ on top of that a knee op. At best, he was expected to play his 1st game in Round 1...he has played 3 pre-season games now & 2 season games, you won't see his best until a month & a 1/2 into the season where he will come into his own.
His fitness levels are obviously down, as he is now playing 85% of the game in the forward 50....trust me...he'll be right.
& re his contract, he's signed up until end of 2007...he'll hopefully be Captain next season, & he's not the type of bloke to win Captaincy & skip off to Adelaide after a year...unlike a Leigh Colbert
fat wombat
11 Apr 2006, 12:33
I don't think it's fitness or form that has Pavlich starved. I think the opposition coaches have done a good job in starving him playing multiple loose men in defence, even superman/pav struggles with that. The big man is human. Not every team is going to play that style of play against the dockers. It showed on the weekend when he went 1 on 1 that he took a couple of solid marking duels. The coaching staff responded in both weeks by putting him in the midfield. You don't put unfit or hurt players in the midfield, it's that simple. It's not fitness or injury that has gotten to him it's just the coach has been outcoached 2 weeks straight. So they have to learn from that and come up with a game plan to really hurt the opposition when they do that.
All of those wanting McPharlin to go back to CHB should really look at the last 2 weeks, he's been the only one keeping us in the game with strong marks against multiple defenders. Imagine if we didn't have one of them up there, Pav or McPharlap, what would happen?
So the opposition doing what they are doing with multiple defenders is really a bit of a complement for our forward line I would think. If they need so many loose men in defense why is that so?
We need to get rid of guys like McManus and bring in the likes of Haines and even Drum. There's so much tweeking needed to solve the Pavlich issue.
ohhhkid
11 Apr 2006, 12:39
Well I feel that all this media hype and critism during these two weeks have caused so much tension and lack of confidence that we are over exaggerating a little bit and this speculation of Pavlich going back to Adelaide is making things worse, but I feel that since CC has done nothing really for the club in the past couple of years, that If we don't make the top 8 or a PF he should be really assesed and find a replacement for him, which should be Harvey, Look at our team and the skills that we have and potential, we are one of the most under-acheiving teams in the league and it's because we don't work as a team. These senior players that the dockers are holding on to need to be cleaned out.
We need to get rid of guys like McManus and bring in the likes of Haines and even Drum.
Players need to earn their position in the team, they are not to be given it on a silver platter. Macca has earnt his position, Haines and Drum need to put the score on the board.
I agree it would be nice if we had players who could take Maccas place and do it better, but he is not going to give it up without someone really playing well in the WAFL.
For the present, Macca should have a dagger free back.
Dr Ralph Dagg
11 Apr 2006, 13:40
I don't think it's fitness or form that has Pavlich starved.
You'd be wrong though. I remember watching Friday training in late Jan (27th) and Pav wasn't doing any contested work and not much running. While most of the other players were busting a gut in simulated match play, Pav was doing a few leads etc. I think he is a fair way off match fit.
I think CC is excellent on match day. Its whether the players want to play for him that is the issue.
FreoFury
11 Apr 2006, 22:14
Pav will be fine with a few more games under his belt when his match fitness and confidence in his shoulder come good. What will help him even more is when the ball starts coming down with a good deal more speed and precision. And dont mention the Adelaide word any where Pav might read it ;) .
As far as CC goes, well this is his make or break season. They gave him a few years to tweak the list and game plan to where he wants it and now he has to deliver. Nothing less than at least 1 win in the finals will save him. The next 4 weeks will go along way to deciding that.
wehavethepassion
11 Apr 2006, 22:35
we won ugly last week and have lots of room for improvement, especially if the players listen to the coaches.
I must be missing something I thought as employees of the FFC part of their
contractual obligations was to take instructions from the head coach??
dominguez
11 Apr 2006, 23:57
The Cats are probably happy they are not as quick on the trigger as you.
Cats fans were calling for Bombre Thompsons head three rounds into his 5th season when they were 0-3 and 16th.
They did of course go on the lose a PF.
http://allthestats.com/coaches/coach.php?id=299
The President and CEO at Geelong must have been confident in Bombers ability on match day, and in his ability to lead the players. We can't rely on our CEO and Chairman, because Schwab is Connolly's boyfriend and Hart just took the job to sell more DVD recorders and HD TV's. It's clear that Connolly struggles on match day, and there is evidence that he has lost the players.
Your unwavering support is commendable Ripper, but I don't understand why some supporters still have faith in him. Surely if he can't get the players up for round one there is a problem? Getting out coached by Sheedy is a regular occurance, but getting flogged by Clarkson? What will it take for the people who are still in Connolly's corner to suggest he isn't up to it?
If we play in a preliminary final this year I will pay for your 2007 membership Ripper.
fat wombat
12 Apr 2006, 00:22
You'd be wrong though. I remember watching Friday training in late Jan (27th) and Pav wasn't doing any contested work and not much running. While most of the other players were busting a gut in simulated match play, Pav was doing a few leads etc. I think he is a fair way off match fit.
I think CC is excellent on match day. Its whether the players want to play for him that is the issue.
Well take it from the man himself.
“I guess with the way the game is going and teams zoning back a bit more and dropping players out, I think our whole forward structure has to change slightly but not too drastically because we don’t want to change how we went last year because things did go reasonably well especially in the latter half of the year.”
The 2005 All-Australian is match-fit and feeling great after a modified pre-season program to aid in his recovery from a shoulder and minor knee operation.
“I wore the GPS (on-field tracking system) on the weekend and I did the same sort of kilometres that I was last season so in terms of fitness and my running it feels really good. I just need to touch the ball a few more time and we’ll be laughing,” he said.
TonySoprano
12 Apr 2006, 01:52
My view on CC - when you're out coached by allister clarkson then you should be very very worried
TonySoprano
12 Apr 2006, 01:54
the hawks game was lost in the coaches box
Spot on. What annoys me with the CC baggers is when they are asked to name who they see as replacing him, the only likely names are people like Sumich and Harvey. There is no reason to think they are going to be better coaches. CC should and will get until the end of the year. It was humiliating how we changed coaches mid year with drum, got us nowhere and lacks integrity.
I am stunned the number of supporters who expect the team to be playing at its peak 2nd week in. from my perspective, we won ugly last week and have lots of room for improvement, especially if the players listen to the coaches.
I am one of those CC baggers, and yes it is hard for me to come up with a replacement. But, we need to try somebody else because they can't be any worse. My main issue is that the players don't seem to be on the same page as the coach, and no matter how good a coach is, if he's lost the players then its time to step aside.
Personally, give Harvey a go and if he doesn't work out, then my preference would be to throw the cheque book at Laidley. Pay him double what the Kangaroos pay him (he gets less than Mark Harvey now). Laidley is a man of integrity and may not want to jump ship, but he also has a family to look after. Some might bag him, but I think he is just what we need. He is a West Aussie, no-nonsense tough man, played in premierships, learnt things from gun coaches, and now has some senior coaching experience and in my opinion has done pretty well with the Kangas list.
I don't expect us to be playing at our peak. Its the manner in which we are playing, the ridiculous gameplan with the over-possession of the football when we have gun forwards waiting for the ball. The Weagles are not playing at their peak, but they at least are playing in a manner that they would be happy with.
Stiffy_18
13 Apr 2006, 21:04
We'd happily have him at Adelaide if his shoulder is good enough for him to play as a key forward for some 5 years as a high level :)
We are looking for a player to take over as Captain when Roo hangs up the boots in a couple of years time and Pavlich is as good a candidate as any :D
Reveler
13 Apr 2006, 21:23
We'd happily have him at Adelaide if his shoulder is good enough for him to play as a key forward for some 5 years as a high level :)
We are looking for a player to take over as Captain when Roo hangs up the boots in a couple of years time and Pavlich is as good a candidate as any :D
I don't know what I'd do if Pav left. I think i'd loose a heap of respect for him :(
Pav is warming up to the season, should finish the year with a bang
fat wombat
14 Apr 2006, 00:55
Honestly isn't this Pavlich Adelaide thing wearing a bit thin? He just opened the restaurant side of his business, seeing a Perth girl. She needs to get pregnant and then he's locked in at Freo for life! :)
voodoo_86
14 Apr 2006, 19:53
I can't remember if it was 2004 or 2005 but the standard line was 'we haven't played our best footy yet'.... and we never did. Perhaps the problem was we HAD played our best footy and it just wasn't good enough. I just hope this year isn't the same.
stu0411
14 Apr 2006, 22:50
It seems that Matthew Pavlich can't be bothered, could it be that he has realised that he is destined for mediocrity as far as team success is concerned??? I know he can be a great player, but seriously, how hard would it be to get motivated each week knowing the coach is on thin ice ( as stated in other threads in this board ) and that he is surrounded by passengers ? You as passionate supporters must agree. Dont hide behind the facts, let your voices be heard.....if you care enough that is......:confused:
It seems that Matthew Pavlich can't be bothered, could it be that he has realised that he is destined for mediocrity as far as team success is concerned??? I know he can be a great player, but seriously, how hard would it be to get motivated each week knowing the coach is on thin ice ( as stated in other threads in this board ) and that he is surrounded by passengers ? You as passionate supporters must agree. Dont hide behind the facts, let your voices be heard.....if you care enough that is......:confused:
u idiot....stu0411...appears as if your holding on to that thin veiled hope that Pavlich will one day return to Adelaide. It will happen, but he will be well into veterans category by then...he will be skipper next year & sign on for another 3 years IMO.
Of course, perhaps your getting in a quick jip prior to next weeks game, where u will get smashed!
kanabar
15 Apr 2006, 13:44
u idiot....stu0411...appears as if your holding on to that thin veiled hope that Pavlich will one day return to Adelaide. It will happen, but he will be well into veterans category by then...he will be skipper next year & sign on for another 3 years IMO.
Of course, perhaps your getting in a quick jip prior to next weeks game, where u will get smashed!
lol good one
bigjohnny
15 Apr 2006, 19:06
i dont think he can play 3 bad games in a row he is an absolute gun... i dont follow the dockers but gees i would love him in my side... he will step up. the delivery to him hasnt been great- hawthorn game he didnt get any good delivery.. he will play a blinder soon.. dont be worried about him
fritz and sauce
15 Apr 2006, 19:53
Pavlich had a chance to play for Port in 2004 ( a premiership year ) and he declined. I believe he was a staunch crow supporter when he young. Perhaps he will only come back if he can play for them. Wouldn't be very bright.