Kangaroos relocation - why so much excitement from opposition fans? [Archive]

cschreuder61

17th April 2006, 22:33

I wouldn't be excited for them. It'd be hard to make the move.

I think a lot of people generally believe that is the best thing for the Kangeroos though to survive. If they disliked your club that much they'd tell you to just stay in Melbourne and slowly fall out. But I think most are just saying that is the best thing for the very long term future of the club.

I'm not sure because I don't understand the finances enough to know whether its realistic for them to survive on their own in Victoria.

chapmanmagic35

17th April 2006, 22:34

The thinking people amongst this board who believe the Roos should go generally believe so because it will be to the benefit on the club in the long term.

de_LICA_ish18

17th April 2006, 22:34

Flag Man

17th April 2006, 22:35

hilly, wtf did you start this thread?

Don't we get enough of this crap already?

pharro

17th April 2006, 22:37

I'm not excited.

Well no of course you shouldn't be. And I appreciate you saying so. Today's game would have been played interstate with the inherent home ground advantage. And that would also be another step closer to a finals series with no Melbourne representation.

JeffDunne

17th April 2006, 22:39

hilly, wtf did you start this thread?
I actually think it's a very good question.

It's not just this site though, it's the entire footy media.

I suspect it is a reflection of society today. We love drama and have become completely self interested - and don't the media know it.

I agree, it's sad.

nico

17th April 2006, 22:39

I think most supporters are sick and tired of seeing the Kangaroos holding their hands out every year for a handout from the AFL. Much like you hate dole bludgers because they are lazy and getting free money we don't like the Kangaroos because they are getting all this free money and have no way of ever making their own.

So there is money tree out at the Western Oval. So the Doggies have never gone cap in hand to the AFL.

You've been cocking your leg on too many fire hydrants.

Short memories some Doggie supporters. No shortage of howling from the kennels when the Bullies were immersed in merger talks a few years back.

pharro

17th April 2006, 22:40

sedders

17th April 2006, 22:41

most of us interstate supporters are excited about another team joining the dark side

de_LICA_ish18

17th April 2006, 22:42

Well no of course you shouldn't be. And I appreciate you saying so. Today's game would have been played interstate with the inherent home ground advantage. And that would also be another step closer to a finals series with no Melbourne representation.

I know my club if financially strong, however as a football supporter I don't wish this on Kangaroo fans. You guys love your club just as much as anyone, I wouldn't want to support an interstate side. I'd hate if we were in that position. Its nothing for anyone else to cheer about.

Kingpin

17th April 2006, 22:47

I actually think it's a very good question.

It's not just this site though, it's the entire footy media.

I suspect it is a reflection of society today. We love drama and have become completely self interested - and don't the media know it.

I agree, it's sad.
:thumbsu:

Flag Man

17th April 2006, 22:50

Sorry guys, it's been fun, but I won't be biting for this crap any more.

We have to worry about being competitive in football matches.

Entertainment Machine

17th April 2006, 22:58

Sorry guys, it's been fun, but I won't be biting for this crap any more.

We have to worry about being competitive in football matches.

Some would say that your clubs shocking financial state of affairs and supporter base is affecting your ability to be competitive on the football field. The ********boner spirit is a fallacy. If you cannot afford to remain in the competition you get out and let someone else in that can survive like Gold Coast or you move there yourselves. All the Kangaroos are doing by remaining in Melbourne is affecting the strength of football in Melbourne because there is less slice of the advertising and sponsorship cake to go around and less money for other clubs because you rely on handouts. Its not just weakening your club its weakening the entire competition in Melbourne.

No. 35

17th April 2006, 22:59

Well no of course you shouldn't be. And I appreciate you saying so. Today's game would have been played interstate with the inherent home ground advantage. And that would also be another step closer to a finals series with no Melbourne representation. hahaha off you go then, don't ******** your pants on the way out...oops I mean don't slam the door on your way out. Go and get your "home ground advantage" if that's the only way you think you can win....and pass in the stripes you pinched 34 years after the Mighty Magpies had already worn them. :mad:

JeffDunne

17th April 2006, 22:59

We have to worry about being competitive in football matches.
Unfortunately in your case even that doesn't stop the speculation.

North Melbourne survive now primarily because the AFL allow you to survive - if they feel the majority of non-Kangaroos supporters would support a relocation then they may lose their willingness to allow you to survive.

Make no mistake, if the Kangaroos are to survive in Melbourne they are going to have to win the media battle - and they are losing miserably atm.

Kanga man

17th April 2006, 23:01

To be honest I'm not against it it. We pioneered Friday night football, and we brought in professional recruiting in the 70's. A move north would shore up our future. As long as we still plyaed 8 times in Melbourne a year. I'd take the kids up for an 8-day holiday once a year and catch two games [Saturday to Saturday}, go to the theme parks im between, and still see 10 games live.

I wouldn't say I'm for it, but I'm not against it. Still my club, and I'll stick with them wherever they go.

incubi

17th April 2006, 23:04

I cant say i dislike north in any way and understand exactly what they are going through but i must admit i would be happy to see them move north as it would take lots of pressure of us for a while.
Also some north supporters on here probably deserve for their team to be moved.
However in the best of both worlds no teams would move and people would stop pushing for it, this is unlikely though.

de_LICA_ish18

17th April 2006, 23:05

Some would say that your clubs shocking financial state of affairs and supporter base is affecting your ability to be competitive on the football field. The ********boner spirit is a fallacy. If you cannot afford to remain in the competition you get out and let someone else in that can survive like Gold Coast or you move there yourselves. All the Kangaroos are doing by remaining in Melbourne is affecting the strength of football in Melbourne because there is less slice of the advertising and sponsorship cake to go around and less money for other clubs because you rely on handouts. Its not just weakening your club its weakening the entire competition in Melbourne.

Very funny coming from a Bulldogs supporter.

So would you support your team moving interstate or folding for the good of the competition? Or do you just want to take the heat of the dogs for a while?

Entertainment Machine

17th April 2006, 23:07

Very funny coming from a Bulldogs supporter.

So would you support your team moving interstate or folding for the good of the competition? Or do you just want to take the heat of the dogs for a while?

Id we were a burden on the rest of the competition yes. Difference is we have supporters and the Kangaroos are on their deathbed and they still dont have anyone signing up to help them. They are officially deceased.

Matt_TY

17th April 2006, 23:09

Personally I want you to stay. The AFL's Destroy Victoria Mission would only be helped by your going.

de_LICA_ish18

17th April 2006, 23:14

Id we were a burden on the rest of the competition yes. Difference is we have supporters and the Kangaroos are on their deathbed and they still dont have anyone signing up to help them. They are officially deceased.

You have supporters? :eek:

I can count on my hand the number of bulldog supporters I've known in my whole life....I'm not kidding

I wouldn't be dancing on their grave, you guys aren't too far apart.

zero

17th April 2006, 23:27

i dont dislike the kangaroos in the least, i just love football, and want more people to be involved and the sport to thrive.

if it was up to me to choose 2 clubs to move, it wouldnt be the roos, but the fact is the roos are the easiest club to shift because of the ownership issue, their low supportership, and the fact that they are a forward looking and innovative club that has a history of bold, progressive moves.

im under the impression that a poor H+A performance will increase the pressure on the club. it sucks but im hoping for a bottom 4 finish this year, as only a year or two as a rabble and crappy membership numbers will see the issue moved up to tipping point, and hopefully they reach then not so far behind the titans that they have a huge disadvantage in their new home.

Pessimistic

17th April 2006, 23:28

Rob

17th April 2006, 23:37

mantis

17th April 2006, 23:55

Apart from thinking that moving there would be financial suicide, I dont want to see the roos go because.

Its one or two less games in melbourne for each melbourne team

AND

some unlucky !! MCG tenant team would need to move games to TD to cover the shortfall.

Excellent post Pess. The Roos are struggling with their membership in melbourne, if they relocate to the GC, they will lose more members than they will gain by relocating.

Also, you can guarantee that within a couple of years, their whole identity will be changed to reflect their new home, thus ensuring they lose even more melbourne members.

woosh_era

17th April 2006, 23:56

Its all about Melbourne right?

All I want is two full rounds.

mantis

17th April 2006, 23:58

Its all about Melbourne right?

Yes ir is, after all it's the HOME of football. :thumbsu:

Captain Sensible

18th April 2006, 00:03

I'm pretty sure that Entertainment Machine is extracting the urine but I'd like to quickly dissasociate anything he says with anything an thinking bulldog supporter would say.

EM if you are a supporter I hope you have a membership.

No. 35

18th April 2006, 00:04

Apart from thinking that moving there would be financial suicide, I dont want to see the roos go because.

Its one or two less games in melbourne for each melbourne team

AND

some unlucky !! MCG tenant team would need to move games to TD to cover the shortfall. I'm probably one of the few progressive Collingwood supporters where I think it'd be a good thing if we had 4 games in either the Gold Coast or Sydney. If we can have 14 games in Melbourne and and another 4 away (out of our 18 home and away) I could see the long term benefit.

woosh_era

18th April 2006, 00:05

Yes ir is, after all it's the HOME of football. :thumbsu:

Indeed. Thank you for letting us play your Australian Rules Football.

:o

mantis

18th April 2006, 00:09

I'm probably one of the few progressive Collingwood supporters where I think it'd be a good thing if we had 4 games in either the Gold Coast or Sydney. If we can have 14 games in Melbourne and and another 4 away (out of our 18 home and away) I could see the long term benefit.

Even if that means the loss of another victorian team? I can't understand any supporter of a VIC club, happy about anothers demise. OK, your team is safe, same as mine, but I still support the other VIC teams & will do anything to help them survive in melbourne.

mantis

18th April 2006, 00:12

Indeed. Thank you for letting us play your Australian Rules Football.

:o

Your welcome, as long as you don't try & make us change our 133 year heritage.

Entertainment Machine

18th April 2006, 00:13

Your welcome, as long as you don't try & make us change our 133 year heritage.

Just wondering. You're 133 year heritage. Did that include putting massive orange 3 logos on your jumpers back in the 1900s or does defacing your jumper with a massive company logo not count as a jumper change?

catters05

18th April 2006, 00:18

Your welcome, as long as you don't try & make us change our 133 year heritage.

U vics are the ones changing everything.

Flag Man

18th April 2006, 00:19

Unfortunately in your case even that doesn't stop the speculation.

North Melbourne survive now primarily because the AFL allow you to survive - if they feel the majority of non-Kangaroos supporters would support a relocation then they may lose their willingness to allow you to survive.

Make no mistake, if the Kangaroos are to survive in Melbourne they are going to have to win the media battle - and they are losing miserably atm.

JD, what are you doing here?

You're normally above this crap.

Someone put something in your drink?

No. 35

18th April 2006, 00:21

Even if that means the loss of another victorian team? I can't understand any supporter of a VIC club, happy about anothers demise. OK, your team is safe, same as mine, but I still support the other VIC teams & will do anything to help them survive in melbourne. I'd like to see my Grandchildren and theirs know who Collingwood is - kill or be killed. Sorry but that's the way it will be, we're all just a sausage sizzle away from becoming extinct.

mantis

18th April 2006, 00:22

Just wondering. You're 133 year heritage. Did that include putting massive orange 3 logos on your jumpers back in the 1900s or does defacing your jumper with a massive company logo not count as a jumper change?

You're right Yokel, an interstater troll, don't know why he chose the Bullies though.:confused:

To troll, it's not massive, it's a 3 & our jumper is still black with a red sash after 133 years, poor jealous fool. How many different junpers does your club have? Not that it matters, because the orirginal couldn't be any older than 20 years. :D

zero

18th April 2006, 00:27

Apart from thinking that moving there would be financial suicide, I dont want to see the roos go because.

Its one or two less games in melbourne for each melbourne team

wait a second. are you saying that the melbourne teams, who are part of a national competition, might have to travel INTERSTATE!!!!!! OMG!!!

get the ******** out. who would have thought, that playing in a national comp would involve actually leaving the state that you are from more that 5 times a year.

look, what some of you old blowhards need to realize is that its not the VFL anymore. its a national competition now, and that means you might be called on to travel interstate occasionally, and it means interstate representation at the expense of broke ass victorian clubs.

50% victorian clubs is high but ok. move two, and keep the rest.

mantis

18th April 2006, 00:38

wait a second. are you saying that the melbourne teams, who are part of a national competition, might have to travel INTERSTATE!!!!!! OMG!!!

get the ******** out. who would have thought, that playing in a national comp would involve actually leaving the state that you are from more that 5 times a year.

look, what some of you old blowhards need to realize is that its not the VFL anymore. its a national competition now, and that means you might be called on to travel interstate occasionally, and it means interstate representation at the expense of broke ass victorian clubs.

50% victorian clubs is high but ok. move two, and keep the rest.

PPFFFFTTT your club is 20 years old, you can't understand tradition.

Had to laugh watching the news tonight, showing the weagles celebrating their 20 year "history" & the club saying they will be celebrating it all year, culminating with them winning the premiership.

OH how great it will be to see them fail yet again. :D

woosh_era

18th April 2006, 01:02

Good work. Sucessfully avoided all the relevant points yet laid a lovely hit on the man.

Bestbird

18th April 2006, 02:05

Yes ir is, after all it's the HOME of football. :thumbsu:

That's part of the problem though

The AFL is not a truly national yet whilst the competition has more clubs in Melbourne than the rest of Australia.

This leads to decisions being made for the good of football in Victoria at times to the detriment of whats good for the AFL as a whole

For this reason some of the sentiment is based on the bigger picture of how the AFL will evolve. And that future you would think inevitably will based on less clubs in Melbourne and more in new markets

Bestbird

18th April 2006, 02:16

PPFFFFTTT your club is 20 years old, you can't understand tradition.

. :D

The club maybe only be twenty years old, but the proud tradition of football in WA which includes the Dockers as well is almost as long as it is in Victoria.

It's Just that the fans of the game in this State has seen it change from a strong local league of 8 to the current 2 teams in the AFL

Your "you can't understand tradition" quote reeks of arrogance

mantis

18th April 2006, 02:18

That's part of the problem though

The AFL is not a truly national yet whilst the competition has more clubs in Melbourne than the rest of Australia.

This leads to decisions being made for the good of football in Victoria at times to the detriment of whats good for the AFL as a whole

For this reason some of the sentiment is based on the bigger picture of how the AFL will evolve. And that future you would think inevitably will based on less clubs in Melbourne and more in new markets

Why can't you interstaters understand, that losing clubs in Victoria will be the downfall of AFL. A team relocating to the GC will fail, aka the Bears, plus they will lose a lot of their Victorian base. That's the problem with you interstaters, you are so for getting rid of Victorian teams, you don't see the big picture.

Bestbird

18th April 2006, 02:48

Why can't you interstaters understand, that losing clubs in Victoria will be the downfall of AFL. A team relocating to the GC will fail, aka the Bears, plus they will lose a lot of their Victorian base. That's the problem with you interstaters, you are so for getting rid of Victorian teams, you don't see the big picture.

So relocating/merging longtime non financial clubs with small membership bases which are being drip fed from the CBF will lead to the downfall of the AFL

:confused:

I'm not saying there won't be some pain for some supporters though, just ask the diehards of all the WAFL, SANFL clubs and also Sth Melb and Fitzroy in the last 20 years or so.

Yet even with all the turmoil created with the changes to these 20 or so clubs the game gets bigger and bigger all around Australia.

Surely you must concede that for the game to expand it has to break into new markets and that this is the big picturei

stmookeyj

18th April 2006, 04:13

You have supporters? :eek:

I can count on my hand the number of bulldog supporters I've known in my whole life....I'm not kidding

I wouldn't be dancing on their grave, you guys aren't too far apart.

http://westernbulldogs.com.au/cp2/c2/webi/graphic/662339ak.JPG

Compared with a club that everyone thinks are safe because they are who they are.....

http://melbournefc.com.au/cp2/c2/webi/graphic/038910ag.gif

And then of course, this.....

http://kangaroos.com.au/cp2/c2/webi/graphic/623608ai.jpg

Hell, even this doesn't look great.....

http://hawthornfc.com.au/cp2/c2/webi/graphic/053191ab.JPG

Must be something in all of this....we actually have more supporters than you think.

zero

18th April 2006, 04:28

PPFFFFTTT your club is 20 years old, you can't understand tradition.

my grandfather played 3 seasons with Claremont before you were born, old man. i was born into the colours, and i still wear those colours on the other side of the world. i understand tradition.
Why can't you interstaters understand, that losing clubs in Victoria will be the downfall of AFL. A team relocating to the GC will fail, aka the Bears, plus they will lose a lot of their Victorian base. That's the problem with you interstaters, you are so for getting rid of Victorian teams, you don't see the big picture.
no it wont, it is the guarantee of success and survival of the competition in perpetuity as the most successfull code in australia.

the problem is with little victorians like YOU who fail to see the big picture, mate. has the relocation of south and fitzroy meant "the downfall of the AFL"?

suprisingly not, although if you listened to retarded arguments like yours im sure you'd think otherwise. those relocations are in fact the direct cause of the AFLs massive, australia wide success. and a couple more relocations will bring yet more success.

i notice you are better at attacking the arguer instead of the argument.
Had to laugh watching the news tonight, showing the weagles celebrating their 20 year "history" & the club saying they will be celebrating it all year, culminating with them winning the premiership.

im not at all suprised you sat there and felt superior, because thats just the sort of pretentious ******************** you are. you believe that just because your team has been in the comp for 100 years, they and by extension you are just so much better than everyone else.

likewise anyone who has been a member for less time that you (ie, everyone on these boards) is also so sadly inferior to yourself. that way, not only are you better than all of us, but your even better than all your fellow essendon supporting mates

admit it mate. you honestly believe you are the only true football fan, for the only good club, dont ya. your whole demeanour reeks of "im better than you"

18th April 2006, 05:59

my grandfather played 3 seasons with Claremont before you were born, old man. i was born into the colours, and i still wear those colours on the other side of the world. i understand tradition.

no it wont, it is the guarantee of success and survival of the competition in perpetuity as the most successfull code in australia.

the problem is with little victorians like YOU who fail to see the big picture, mate. has the relocation of south and fitzroy meant "the downfall of the AFL"?

suprisingly not, although if you listened to retarded arguments like yours im sure you'd think otherwise. those relocations are in fact the direct cause of the AFLs massive, australia wide success. and a couple more relocations will bring yet more success.

i notice you are better at attacking the arguer instead of the argument.

im not at all suprised you sat there and felt superior, because thats just the sort of pretentious ******************** you are. you believe that just because your team has been in the comp for 100 years, they and by extension you are just so much better than everyone else.

likewise anyone who has been a member for less time that you (ie, everyone on these boards) is also so sadly inferior to yourself. that way, not only are you better than all of us, but your even better than all your fellow essendon supporting mates

admit it mate. you honestly believe you are the only true football fan, for the only good club, dont ya. your whole demeanour reeks of "im better than you"

Don't worry too much, Zero, Mantis is an a-grade headcase. There are plenty more vic-centric headcases around.

They're a mockery, an annoying mosquito....nothing more. Time itself will see them all outdated in the not too distant future.

medusala

18th April 2006, 07:17

Why can't you interstaters understand, that losing clubs in Victoria will be the downfall of AFL.

Clearly people who cant understand this are fools of the highest order. Losing South Melbourne and Fitzroy decimated the competition and has put back the code decades.

Monkster

18th April 2006, 08:04

A team relocating to the GC will fail, aka the Bears

The Bears were failing because they were a Brisbane named team based on the GC. Brisbane people weren't going to travel to the GC to watch a foreign code and GC people weren't going to go and support a Brisbane team.

Captain Sensible

18th April 2006, 08:27

Roonaldo!

18th April 2006, 08:36

Some would say that your clubs shocking financial state of affairs and supporter base is affecting your ability to be competitive on the football field. The ********boner spirit is a fallacy. If you cannot afford to remain in the competition you get out and let someone else in that can survive like Gold Coast or you move there yourselves. All the Kangaroos are doing by remaining in Melbourne is affecting the strength of football in Melbourne because there is less slice of the advertising and sponsorship cake to go around and less money for other clubs because you rely on handouts. Its not just weakening your club its weakening the entire competition in Melbourne.
Hold on, hold on...

You support the Western Bulldogs right?

The team also facing pressure to move and also recieving over a million dollars in handouts?

Or don't you know your OWN current financial affairs?

morgoth

18th April 2006, 08:47

Putting aside the ribbing of Nth supporters I am not excited per say, but I do think it is the right thing to do.

Nth will never be viable in Vic but they might be on the Gold Coast. One less team may also make it easier for the other struggling Vic clubs, win win.

For the Vic Nth fans it really is a case of making sure they get say 8 to 9 games in Vic a year (not too hard). The should also be on FTA TV every second week. You can see why they would be upset but it do you go on with the arse hanging out your pants or try and improve your lot?

de_LICA_ish18

18th April 2006, 09:06

http://westernbulldogs.com.au/cp2/c2/webi/graphic/662339ak.JPG

Compared with a club that everyone thinks are safe because they are who they are.....

http://melbournefc.com.au/cp2/c2/webi/graphic/038910ag.gif

And then of course, this.....

http://kangaroos.com.au/cp2/c2/webi/graphic/623608ai.jpg

Hell, even this doesn't look great.....

http://hawthornfc.com.au/cp2/c2/webi/graphic/053191ab.JPG

Must be something in all of this....we actually have more supporters than you think.

But is it enough to ensure your survival? I don't think so. It also helps that you've won a couple of games at the start of the season. If you were down the bottom you'd be lucky to have 20,000 right now. So how sustainable is your membership in future years, maybe you have peaked? You'd wanna reach 30,000 members reguarly before you can start relaxing.

Western Bulldogs fans, more than anyone should be supporting Victorian Clubs.

Sir_Adrian84

18th April 2006, 09:07

Excellent post Pess. The Roos are struggling with their membership in melbourne, if they relocate to the GC, they will lose more members than they will gain by relocating.

Also, you can guarantee that within a couple of years, their whole identity will be changed to reflect their new home, thus ensuring they lose even more melbourne members.

Couldn't agree more. It is pointless to move a team from Melbourne unless they can increase their membership. It will take years for the GC to fully support them and the same could be said if the Bulldogs left Melbourne. It would be suicide for the AFL to not have teams in Melbourne's western suburbs.

4for brisbane

18th April 2006, 09:16

brisbane fans want a local derby
and dees, dogs and hawks fans want a gold coast kangas because it means its not them :D

de_LICA_ish18

18th April 2006, 09:20

Don't the Gold Coast people already have a team? the Brisbane Lions.

I really can't see a move to GC working.

4for brisbane

18th April 2006, 09:22

That's the problem with you interstaters, you are so for getting rid of Victorian teams, you don't see the big picture.

us interstaters see the big picture
and the gc is the only market that can sustain an afl team now

were i a north or dogs fan i'd fight hard not to get arsed north
but the problen is the other stronger melbourne teams want less victorian teams
the enemy of north is collingwood, essendon etc not those interstate that want the game to grow

4for brisbane

18th April 2006, 09:25

Don't the Gold Coast people already have a team? the Brisbane Lions.

I really can't see a move to GC working.

australia's 6th biggest city
with the fastest [or second fastest depending on a few things] growth rate
and southport only turning over 200 million gross p.a

it will work

incubi

18th April 2006, 09:44

us interstaters see the big picture
and the gc is the only market that can sustain an afl team now

were i a north or dogs fan i'd fight hard not to get arsed north
but the problen is the other stronger melbourne teams want less victorian teams
the enemy of north is collingwood, essendon etc not those interstate that want the game to grow

yes the only market where it would be able to sustain an Afl team gettign all of 8,000 people to the games, that wold jsut be great wouldnt it?
And having a team move there wont help because in the locals minds they will still be a team from interstate and will not atleast for the first few years have recognition as the gold coasts club

Hawkk

18th April 2006, 10:04

I want to see NORTH MELBOURNE stay!

Something will be lost without them, in fact during my trip to Melbourne later this year, I intend to visit all the traditional football grounds in an afternoon, should waste a bit of time cruising around the Melbourne CBD :thumbsu:

brisbane fans want a local derby
and dees, dogs and hawks fans want a gold coast kangas because it means its not them :D
********, you don't know much about this game do you bandwagoner?

My opinion on this has changed after thinking about this (I know think North should stay!), I suggest you watch 'on the Coach' featuring Alaister Clarkson....

4 for Brisbane bwhahahahaha.

North will have more members then Brissie in 5 years!

fishmonger

18th April 2006, 10:15

The Bears were failing because they were a Brisbane named team based on the GC. Brisbane people weren't going to travel to the GC to watch a foreign code and GC people weren't going to go and support a Brisbane team.

Not entirely true.
I went to at least 10 games at Carrara whilst living in Brisbane.
Mind you, that was over a 5 or 6 year period.
Problem is back then the distance was too great.
Nowadays there is a train line right to nearby Nerang station, and at least 3 major freeways connecting to the GC.
The first few games there attracted a lot of interest. But the true reason that the Bears failed was poor on-field performance, because they were basically a rabble of has been VFL players. After that, the big games were games like Collingwood, where the only crowds consisted of Brisbane based supporters of Melbourne clubs who turned up in droves to see their side thrash the Bears.

I do agree that there were few if any GC based Bears supporters in those days, but it was as much because noone wants to support a wooden spooner as anything else.

The Lions proved that good performance is what brings bums on seats in Queensland.

For those dissapointed with an 8,000 crowd. Consider that interest was most likely low because the game was between two teams from "Mexican" states, one of which has very little following even in its home city. The majority of the crowd were actually ex-pat South Australians (of which there are quite a few on the GC). Ask yourself how many Melburnians would turn up to see Fremantle play Port Power at the Dome ? From a Queenslander point of view it was a good crowd IMO.

I'd expect a better crowd of around 12,000 for the Hawthorn game because a) a Queensland based team in the Brisbane Lions will be playing, and b) the Hawks have a fairly big following in QLD which they grew in the Jason Dunstall years.

A side with a new licence can not realistically expect any more than 15,000 a game on the GC (assuming that the club is at least moderately successful on the field), and a relocated side would struggle to get more than 10,000 a game, except when they play against either Essendon or Collingwood. And if this is considered too small by AFL standards, then the AFL should be looking instead at admitting a Tasmanian based side.

stmookeyj

18th April 2006, 11:30

For those dissapointed with an 8,000 crowd. Consider that interest was most likely low because the game was between two teams from "Mexican" states, one of which has very little following even in its home city. The majority of the crowd were actually ex-pat South Australians (of which there are quite a few on the GC).

I still felt that if there were true fans then they would have nudged 10K.

I'd expect a better crowd of around 12,000 for the Hawthorn game because a) a Queensland based team in the Brisbane Lions will be playing, and b) the Hawks have a fairly big following in QLD which they grew in the Jason Dunstall years.

I would actually DEMAND that 15K would have to come to convince me.

drakeyv2

18th April 2006, 11:35

Because the Kangaroos are a fine club that deserve to survive and if they stay in Melbourne they wont.

Pres

18th April 2006, 12:40

Great thread Hilly. I have often raised the same question in my mind over recent weeks, particularly as I listened to the "Southport" chant on the terraces of Geelong last week.

Because the Kangaroos are a fine club that deserve to survive and if they stay in Melbourne they wont.

I think this post sums up why opposition clubs can't understand why relocation of your club could be so painful. It's also what the likes of Keka and Keith Greig have missed in their recent interviews.

The simple truth is that, if relocated, your club does not "survive". Period. When you win a flag as the Gold Coast Kangaroos in 2020 or whenever and you celebrate as an old North fan you won't celebrate like you did in 96 or 99. It isn't the same. And that's the true test.

Just as 2001 was not a Fitzroy flag and 2005 was not a South Melbourne flag. Sure it gives the diehards someone still to follow. But it's not the same. The club is not "your club" anymore. Just a group that look like your old club.

Porthos

18th April 2006, 12:41

I'd rather see the Dees get shafted.

Melbourne Kangaroos would be fine though.

Flag Man

18th April 2006, 12:43

It's also what the likes of Keka and Keith Greig have missed in their recent interviews.

I get the impression that Kekovich, Greig and King are more interested in having their names preserved on some relocated honor board, rather than anything to do with the well being of the club.

Just as 2001 was not a Fitzroy flag and 2005 was not a South Melbourne flag. Sure it gives the diehards someone still to follow. But it's not the same. The club is not "your club" anymore. Just a group that look like your old club.

Another thing to be factored in is that the vast majority of South and Fitzroy fans never saw their own clubs win a Flag.

Give a starving man a dry biscuit, and he will think it's a three course meal.

jmerino

18th April 2006, 12:50

I get the impression that Kekovich, Greig and King are more interested in having their names preserved on some relocated honor board, rather than anything to do with the well being of the club.

Another thing to be factored in is that the vast majority of South and Fitzroy fans never saw their own clubs win a Flag.

Give a starving man a dry biscuit, and he will think it's a three course meal.

You goose.

These guys have the inside nouse on your club.They know stuff you can only dream of.

drakeyv2

18th April 2006, 12:51

Great thread Hilly. I have often raised the same question in my mind over recent weeks, particularly as I listened to the "Southport" chant on the terraces of Geelong last week.

I think this post sums up why opposition clubs can't understand why relocation of your club could be so painful. It's also what the likes of Keka and Keith Greig have missed in their recent interviews.

The simple truth is that, if relocated, your club does not "survive". Period. When you win a flag as the Gold Coast Kangaroos in 2020 or whenever and you celebrate as an old North fan you won't celebrate like you did in 96 or 99. It isn't the same. And that's the true test.

Just as 2001 was not a Fitzroy flag and 2005 was not a South Melbourne flag. Sure it gives the diehards someone still to follow. But it's not the same. The club is not "your club" anymore. Just a group that look like your old club.

I understand it would be painful. I understand it wouldn't be the same. But will it be less painful if & when you fold because you can't compete financialy.

Flag Man

18th April 2006, 12:53

You goose.

These guys have the inside nouse on your club.They know stuff you can only dream of.

Your infatuation with me is going to cost you money from now on.

Every reply will cost $50, made payable to the account of Emerson Prescott Flagman III.

P.M. for account details.

"Give a starving man a dry biscuit, and he will think it's a three course meal." - E.P.Flagman III

The Majestic

18th April 2006, 13:02

I'm not excited.

Me either, I don't feel that a club in distress and having to relocate is something to be excited about.

Flag Man

18th April 2006, 13:31

Personally, wouldn't like it to happen - but if its to happen... better you than me.

That mentality may very well be your undoing.

Ever heard the term, "divide and conquer"?

First they came for the Swans
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Swan.

Then they came for the Lions
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Lion.

Then they came for the Kangaroos
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Kangaroo.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

The supporters of North, Western Bulddogs and Melbourne, along with all other true football supporters, need to form a political alliance.

woosh_era

18th April 2006, 18:05

So you understand Claremont's tradition. But you cant understand why North would fight to keep theirs?

Id love nothing more than for the mighty Monties to get a slot in the AFL. Perhaps the commision should subsidise thier entry and ongoing success?

No. Perhaps not. Claremont continue to battle it out in the lesser leagues... where North belong.

woosh_era

18th April 2006, 18:11

Melbourne Kangaroos would be fine though.

I think this is entirely realistic. But as a question to Kangas / Dees fans - Would you rather support a merged team in the AFL, or retain all your heritage and drop back to the VFL?

Lukazzz777

18th April 2006, 18:35

I think this is entirely realistic. But as a question to Kangas / Dees fans - Would you rather support a merged team in the AFL, or retain all your heritage and drop back to the VFL?

I agree totally. If I was a Demon or a Kanga I would say merge now.

woosh_era

18th April 2006, 19:02

Seems to make sense eh?

You folks have to remember that we went through this exact same dilemma 20 years ago. We all had long standing loves of our WAFL clubs, and it really was a bumper league. Massive sold out crowds every weekend, rivalries, all the good footy stuff that you bleat on about losing with the impending league rationalisation.

We had to decide our way forward, and we had to accept that we would support a new team in the new national code while retaining a soft spot for our fading flame. And the AFL did rout our long standing clubs. But we never had sooky la-la's, we just got on with it. Moving forwards and all.

We traded our heritage for the good of the future of the national competition. Time for you guys to pull your heads out of the clouds and repay the effort with same.... for the good of all.

Selfish bastards.

Motters19

18th April 2006, 19:19

I think this is entirely realistic. But as a question to Kangas / Dees fans - Would you rather support a merged team in the AFL, or retain all your heritage and drop back to the VFL?
Of course I would prefer to drop back to the VFL. I don't know what supporter would rather go for a team that isnt "their's" Besides, they are actually playing a better looking brand of footy in the VFL :p

Flag Man

18th April 2006, 19:20

Easy choice, stand alone VFL club.

zero

18th April 2006, 19:23

So you understand Claremont's tradition. But you cant understand why North would fight to keep theirs?
were claremont playing in the AFL, struggling year after year, and there was a prospect of moving somewhere where they could be a powerhouse, as well as having an incarnation in the WAFL, then i would be in favour of that. i would still be a fan and interstate member of the relocated club, and be proud of my families long attachment to it, and to its proud history. and i would be a fan and member of the local version back in the WAFL, too.

im from country WA, and even though we were members, we lived too far away to go to every game. we only made it to a couple of games a year, driving 5 hours to stay at my dads brothers place and go to the games with my cousins. i saw many finals and a few winning grand finals too.

its possible to be a strong supporter of a club even if you live a long way away and can only see a few live games a year.

woosh_era

18th April 2006, 19:38

Easy choice, stand alone VFL club.

Fair enough. Id say the same rather than lose my club altogether to some bastardised blend. I still follow Claremont closely and get to a couple of games a year.

So who would you fancy in the AFL?

paul scholes

18th April 2006, 20:17

Gasometer

18th April 2006, 21:12

Rob

18th April 2006, 21:37

The supporters of North, Western Bulddogs and Melbourne, along with all other true football supporters, need to form a political alliance.

Which would be quite ironic, because it's the existence of each other that they are all so poor. Any one of those would be much better off with the demise of the other 2.

Rob

18th April 2006, 21:41

Couldn't agree more. It is pointless to move a team from Melbourne unless they can increase their membership. It will take years for the GC to fully support them and the same could be said if the Bulldogs left Melbourne.

And in years, when they do fully support them, they suddenly become a viable club not reliant on AFL handouts which could disappear as soon as there's an AFL policy change.
As opposed to staying in Melbourne and remaining a basketcase. Forever.

You would be a fool to think that some team can just rock up and suddenly fill the hearts of Gold Coast people. It would take years of hard work. But that's a better chance than what many teams in Melbourne have now, with no chance of ever increasing their support base to levels needed to compete in a national competition.

Flag Man

18th April 2006, 21:42

So who would you fancy in the AFL?

I wouldn't follow the AFL, but if the doggies were selling raffle tickets I would buy some.

I would be actively involved with North in the VFL.

IMO, so would 90% of the rest of North fans.

We would be lost to AFL football.

Flag Man

18th April 2006, 21:44

Which would be quite ironic, because it's the existence of each other that they are all so poor. Either one of those would be much better off with the demise of the other 2.

Totally disagree, these three teams could form a powerful political alliance.

Imagine 75,000 people parking their arses on the steps of government house?

pharro

18th April 2006, 21:44

hahaha off you go then, don't ******** your pants on the way out...oops I mean don't slam the door on your way out. Go and get your "home ground advantage" if that's the only way you think you can win....and pass in the stripes you pinched 34 years after the Mighty Magpies had already worn them. :mad:

What an embarrassment you must be to all the civil Collingwood supporters on this board.

mighty mick

18th April 2006, 21:47

I think most supporters are sick and tired of seeing the Kangaroos holding their hands out every year for a handout from the AFL. Much like you hate dole bludgers because they are lazy and getting free money we don't like the Kangaroos because they are getting all this free money and have no way of ever making their own.

that is ********ing hilarious and hypocritical coming from a doggie supporter who are only out of trouble because john howard handed over 20 million to try and win liberal seats in the west.

if i ever see that muppet wearing a doggie scarf again im just gonna tighten it for him till he turns blue.:mad:

has he ever shown any interest in the afl before? NO

hey johhny they play the game in sydney and canberra why dont you get to a game ther?:mad:

pharro

18th April 2006, 21:51

This guy has to be taking the **********.

Could well be but just in case, I think we should refrain from making fun of him. That's just tacky.

mighty mick

18th April 2006, 21:53

Totally disagree, these three teams could form a powerful political alliance.

Imagine 75,000 people parking their arses on the steps of government house?

the bullies have already formed there political alliance with the federal liberal party.:p

pharro

18th April 2006, 22:00

For the Vic Nth fans it really is a case of making sure they get say 8 to 9 games in Vic a year (not too hard). The should also be on FTA TV every second week. You can see why they would be upset but it do you go on with the arse hanging out your pants or try and improve your lot?

I'm not going to entertain the possibility that North will relocate but for the club that eventually is forced to do so, the minimum deal would have to be 8 home games GC, 3 home games Telstra Dome and 8 away games Telstra Dome with full reserved seating privileges. There would be a Gabba away game derby and then the remaining 2 away games split between Sydney, Adelaide and Perth. Deal or no deal.

Rob

18th April 2006, 22:00

Totally disagree, these three teams could form a powerful political alliance.

They probably could, but the fact remains that those 3 clubs are in the ******** because there are too many teams in Victoria. The fewer the number of Melbourne clubs increases the chances of success of the remaining clubs.

pharro

18th April 2006, 22:02

Surely you must concede that for the game to expand it has to break into new markets and that this is the big picturei

This brings up the David Suzuki argument as to why there is an automatic assumption that expansion is essential.

Flag Man

18th April 2006, 22:06

This brings up the David Suzuki argument as to why there is an automatic assumption that expansion is essential.

Yes, he has made some brilliant statements about western capitalist economics.:)

Flag Man

18th April 2006, 22:10

They probably could, but the fact remains that those 3 clubs are in the ******** because there are too many teams in Victoria. The fewer the number of Melbourne clubs increases the chances of success of the remaining clubs.

We have to change the whole thinking about football to the point where we factor in culturally significant aspects ahead of market forces.

Then we re-establish the Lions back in Fitzroy and the Swans back to the Lakeside oval and humbly beg their forgiveness for not protecting them in their hour of need.

We have to stop being slaves to economic dogma.

Our football clubs are more important to us than piles of paper.

pharro

18th April 2006, 22:10

Because the Kangaroos are a fine club that deserve to survive and if they stay in Melbourne they wont.

Would the Adelaide Crows still be the same fine club if they relocated to the Gold Coast? We see American sporting "franchises" relocate but they don't expect to retain support from the city they abandoned. I'm just not sure what aspect of the fine club you are hoping to save.

woosh_era

18th April 2006, 22:12

We have to change the whole thinking about football to the point where we factor in culturally significant aspects ahead of market forces.

Then we re-establish the Lions back in Fitzroy and the Swans back to the Lakeside oval and humbly beg their forgiveness for not protecting them in their hour of need.

We have to stop being slaves to economic dogma.

Our football clubs are more important to us than piles of paper.

Ill tell Claremont to prepare a submission then? :(

Porthos

18th April 2006, 22:13

We have to change the whole thinking about football to the point where we factor in culturally significant aspects ahead of market forces.

Then we re-establish the Lions back in Fitzroy and the Swans back to the Lakeside oval and humbly beg their forgiveness for not protecting them in their hour of need.Also we invite in the traditionally best teams from every state league, regardless of market size.

Because after all, its not like national leagues spanning a continent need to be economically viable, is it?

The AFL is meant to be an elite competition. It still has a number of clubs from Melbourne in it that are anything but elite.