View Full Version : Leigh Matthews
Grimreepah
9 May 2006, 21:09
Has Leigh done anything wrong?
A couple of Lions supporters have been adament that Leigh has not been performing well as a coach.
To stop each thread turning into a 'blame the coach' session, I am hoping to get it all out in the open here.
So I ask, what should Leigh Matthews have done better?
The Flying Belgian
9 May 2006, 21:24
I too have grown sick and tired of the constant attack on Matthews by a few posters. It's tiring and monotonous IMO. And every time I ask for greater detail or facts to back up claims of player dissent, said posters conveniently develop selective reading.
At the same time, there are concerns I have. The foremost is the recent change in game plan. We were told that it's becuase the game has changed and we can't play the kick-it-long style. Did they not know this at the start of the season? Surely we could have been training for it in the pre-season. But that's by the by now.
I've got no real problem with how he's been off the field. None of us can know what it feels like to have the pressure of coaching upon us.
He's got a shirtload of brownie points left up his sleeve.
No matter what posters say which what and whenever, keep in mind Matthews and the other coaches in the league are the first to say "the buck stops with me". No if's, but's or maybe's. That's just how it is. They know it, we know it. We might or might not agree with it on any given issue, but that is the way it works regardless of our individual opinions.
So it's no great surprise he gets the finger pointed at him alot these days, nor is it a surprise that some will and some won't agree with it.
Each to their own I think.
I can't see any value in posters arguing over this issue.
goschuey
9 May 2006, 21:29
Even though matthews hasn't really done anything wrong as a coach i feel it is almost time for him to move on.
The lions need to rebuild now and i think they need a fresh coach with a fresh approach and outlook on the playing list.
Matthews will have a tendancy to keep playing black, voss etc when they should start blooding youth.
As far as black is concerned he should be traded while he still has some years in him and they can get some value through a trade with him.
konstas_87
9 May 2006, 22:22
I dont blame Leigh for a minute, i hope he sticks it out and restores our team to the top 4-6 it once was.
We will welcome him home if you want :)
Lethal apparently has a life sized potrait at the new HQ, would be nice to add another premiership medallion to his 4 as a player :)
Melbourne Lion
10 May 2006, 00:31
I too have grown sick and tired of the constant attack on Matthews by a few posters. It's tiring and monotonous IMO. And every time I ask for greater detail or facts to back up claims of player dissent, said posters conveniently develop selective reading.
At the same time, there are concerns I have. The foremost is the recent change in game plan. We were told that it's becuase the game has changed and we can't play the kick-it-long style. Did they not know this at the start of the season? Surely we could have been training for it in the pre-season. But that's by the by now.
I've got no real problem with how he's been off the field. None of us can know what it feels like to have the pressure of coaching upon us.
He's got a shirtload of brownie points left up his sleeve.
Agree with pretty much everything said there.:thumbsu:
Crazy talk to want or think it's time for Leigh Matthews to move on.
A proven 4 time premiership winning coach is worth gold. Coaches like Sheedy or John Cahill or Wayne Bennett in NRL, guys that can stay at a club for over 20 years, must mean it really has nothing to do with moving coaches on and letting emerging young'uns develop under a 'fresh' regime.
Matthews, as long as he has full support and control over his role, and is happy to stay indefinately, would easily re-mould the Lions into a top 4 side. Sometimes teams take a dip for a few years, doesn't mean it's the coaches fault or the coach needs to be traded in.
Crazy talk. If you have one of those coaches in your club, hold onto them for dear life. Because you let them go and there'll be a merry-go-round of "fresh" coaches over the next 10 years and no real return to premiership success.
roostersgal4eva
10 May 2006, 00:49
I dont blame Leigh - I do hope that he can make the tough/unpopular decisions when they are needed and warrented.
if he cant/wont do that then we have problems
jmerino
10 May 2006, 09:56
I do worry about his coaching track record at Collingwood and the state he left them in, when he had problems with rebuilding.
Completely different circumstances when he left Collingwood. His proviso for taking the job at the Lions was that he had complete control of the football department. This is something that was not the case at Collingwood. All sorts of footballing decisions were being made that he had no control over. Not exactly the best working environment.
Leppa says the team fully supports Lethal. The board supports Lethal. Lethal has more than proven himself.
jmerino
10 May 2006, 10:18
Completely different circumstances when he left Collingwood. His proviso for taking the job at the Lions was that he had complete control of the football department. This is something that was not the case at Collingwood. All sorts of footballing decisions were being made that he had no control over. Not exactly the best working environment.
Leppa says the team fully supports Lethal. The board supports Lethal. Lethal has more than proven himself.
Of ocurse he has proven himself, in goodtimes only.A totally different kettle of fish to bad times.
Grimreepah
10 May 2006, 10:25
Of ocurse he has proven himself, in goodtimes only.A totally different kettle of fish to bad times.
He took over after we won the wooden spoon in 98. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems it was as bad as it gets.
Who is a coach that has done well in bad times?
jmerino
10 May 2006, 10:29
He took over after we won the wooden spoon in 98. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems it was as bad as it gets.
Who is a coach that has done well in bad times?
I meant to say that, in 1999, in his 1st year we did really well.We also had the majority of the same players from 1998.
The football dept has said that they made decisions based on shrot term benefit during our premiership years. They knew they'd pay for it. I don't know, I'd take the 4 grand finals/3 premierships and some years of hardship over only 1 premiership (or even none) any day.
The rebuild is going to take time and there will be pain and sacrifices that not everyone will agree with.
Supporters should ask questions but continually attacking the football dept is unfair and I thought it was something that other clubs' supporters do.
jmerino
10 May 2006, 10:41
The football dept has said that they made decisions based on shrot term benefit during our premiership years. They knew they'd pay for it. I don't know, I'd take the 4 grand finals/3 premierships and some years of hardship over only 1 premiership (or even none) any day.
The rebuild is going to take time and there will be pain and sacrifices that not everyone will agree with.
Supporters should ask questions but continually attacking the football dept is unfair and I thought it was something that other clubs' supporters do.
All clubs need their supporters on side.No organization that has a total section of it, that answers to no one except the board, and has 1 person only in total control of that section, is asking for problems.They usually occur when the chips are down.Moral gets low.
Grimreepah
10 May 2006, 11:05
No organization that has a total section of it, that answers to no one except the board, and has 1 person only in total control of that section, is asking for problems.They usually occur when the chips are down.Moral gets low.
I'm not sure what you're saying.
If someone answers to the board then they don't have total control. The board represents the members (or shareholders).
If you have to answer to too many people, then you get pulled in too many directions. I wouldn't have thought our organisational structure is any different to other clubs.
vosstheboss
10 May 2006, 12:35
Leigh is the best man for the club not leigh fault.
I think the players should sit down together as team mate and say ok how can get out of this and work better as a team.
The criticisms of Lethal seem to be:
1. Media relationship.
2. Failure to succession plan in the good times.
3. Some man management issues with players.
4. Inability to develop young players.
The first probably has some justification although his relationship with the media has always appeared to be "master/servant" and I think the media is taking a little bit of pleasure in turning the screws on him a bit.
The second is an issue but one that the club openly admits. As plenty of people have said on here, I'll wear the pain now for the 4 GFs for 3 wins we have been fortunate enough to experience. Having said that, I think the club has tended to hold onto players for a year too long - that can probably be justified for reasons of team unity. In hindsight, did Darryl White contribute anything on the field in his last couple of years that Craig Bolton could not have done? Probably not but "retiring" DJ early may have disrupted the team. In any event, all coaches and footy departments make errors in player recruiting and retention - I don't think Lethal is better or worse than other coaches in this regard.
The third is really only evident in Aker and a couple of statement in the media about some disgruntled players. I'll reserve my judgment on this but would like people to remember that his time at Collingwood was about 15 years ago so it really doesn't compare with his time in Brisbane now.
The fourth criticism is worth considering. I can see this viewpoint but I don't necessarily agree. Firstly, I think Lethal has developed some young players - it might not be due to him but Black, Power, Brown, Charman, Hadley, Bradshaw and others have all spent all (or just about all) of their careers playing under Lethal. Those six players would be in most clubs' starting 18s. I think we tend to forget that while Lethal inherited the likes of Vossy, DJ, Aker, Leppa, Johnno, Lappin, Crackers and Chris Scott, the rest of the premiership team he either developed or traded for. I'm not arguing that Lethal did not inherit just about the best wooden spoon team in the comp but he added substantially to that nucleus.
Leigh Mathews has my unconditional 100% support. I hope we resign him to 2010 and beyond!! :thumbsu:
From yesterday's Courier Mail (tacked onto the end of a fairly long article about Lethal and Aker)...
Matthews did not cancel this week's Monday press conference, as reported on this website yesterday. He does not hold a press conference the day after a Sunday game.
Apologies if this has already been posted.
beatnik
11 May 2006, 18:22
Even though matthews hasn't really done anything wrong as a coach i feel it is almost time for him to move on.
The lions need to rebuild now and i think they need a fresh coach with a fresh approach and outlook on the playing list.
Matthews will have a tendancy to keep playing black, voss etc when they should start blooding youth.
As far as black is concerned he should be traded while he still has some years in him and they can get some value through a trade with him.
i am gobsmacked that a Collingwood supporter would have the cajones to make a statement like this given the recent record between the two teams...but I appreciate your honesty...at least you did not pose behind a false alias like some of the "supporters" on this board
i think it is obvious that by your logic that Malthouse should have been 'moved on' for someone with a 'fresh approach' last year or the year before that
Leigh Matthews has won 3 of the last 5 grand finals and played in four of the last 5 - that record leaves him with another 3-4 years before aksing these questions in my books
i don't think I could simprove on g.g.'s summary...so I wont try ;)
Crazy talk to want or think it's time for Leigh Matthews to move on.
A proven 4 time premiership winning coach is worth gold. Coaches like Sheedy or John Cahill or Wayne Bennett in NRL, guys that can stay at a club for over 20 years, must mean it really has nothing to do with moving coaches on and letting emerging young'uns develop under a 'fresh' regime.
...
Crazy talk. If you have one of those coaches in your club, hold onto them for dear life. Because you let them go and there'll be a merry-go-round of "fresh" coaches over the next 10 years and no real return to premiership success.
Grimreepah
21 May 2006, 19:32
Leigh Matthews has been criticised for departing from what was successful, but he seems to be doing the right thing.
In a time of rebuilding (and in a time when the game is changing), it is important to have the guts to give different players an opportunity. Apart from injuries (Garner, Hadley, Lappin, Keating) the only 2 senior players who have not got a game are Allen and Wood. We now have been able to see who looks comfortable at senior level, and the emergence of Jason Roe is testament to the success of the tactic. We also have players like Hooper and Mills who have tasted senior level experience and have an idea of what is required to make it.
If we continue at the current rate of improvement and get a few players back from injury at the end of the year, we may just sneak into the finals and give a few of the top teams a headache.
I was wondering who was going to be the first to mention the F word.
Grimreeppah wins the points.
Grimreepah
21 May 2006, 19:46
I was wondering who was going to be the first to mention the F word.
Grimreeppah wins the points.
I did stack it with plenty of disclaimers though:cool:
It's OK Grim, we're only 4 points from the eight.
Grimreepah
21 May 2006, 19:55
It's OK Grim, we're only 4 points from the eight.
...and 8 points from the four:D
It's OK Grim, we're only 4 points from the eight.
and cue the cliches...
We're just taking it one game at a time...
Bobby Beecroft
21 May 2006, 21:30
I too have grown sick and tired of the constant attack on Matthews by a few posters. It's tiring and monotonous IMO. And every time I ask for greater detail or facts to back up claims of player dissent, said posters conveniently develop selective reading.
Funny those few have disappeared after a couple of wins.
Suppose Doom Masters can't have much to say after a victory.
Anyway no doubt after our next loss once again the internal bickering rumours will begin again, the football department will have no idea & god how dare anyone be ommitted for not following team rules .......etc.........etc
:rolleyes:
Grimreepah
21 May 2006, 21:38
Funny those few have disappeared after a couple of wins.
I was hoping the doom masters would come out with their anti-Leigh sentiments so that we could discuss their grievances. Alas, the challenge has not been taken up. But the insinuations have continued.
The Flying Belgian
22 May 2006, 09:21
I was hoping the doom masters would come out with their anti-Leigh sentiments so that we could discuss their grievances. Alas, the challenge has not been taken up. But the insinuations have continued.
Look, everyone is entitled to a say - that's what these baords are about. If there are/were dodgy things happenning at the club, as a voting member I'd like to hear about it. BUT, I'd like some substance to the claims and repeated claims to that effect just damage the club without cause. At the same time if they want to continue on this crusade they more than free to.
It would pay to keep in mind that said posters share more than a similar mindset.
jmerino
22 May 2006, 09:51
Settle down guys.We have won 2 matches against very very poor oposition.You know,it's amazing what having 2 fit ruckmen in the team will do for the stucture of the team.Odd also that players will play well in positions they are used to and like,not having your Fb playing at FF or BP tagging Chris Judd.It ain't rocket science, go back to basics and wacko things turn around, the players are comfortable and happy in playing their footy.
Settle down guys.We have won 2 matches against very very poor oposition.You know,it's amazing what having 2 fit ruckmen in the team will do for the stucture of the team.Odd also that players will play well in positions they are used to and like,not having your Fb playing at FF or BP tagging Chris Judd.It ain't rocket science, go back to basics and wacko things turn around, the players are comfortable and happy in playing their footy.
Not sure having two ruckmen has turned it around. I think that there are a whole host of reasons why the form is better - that is probably one of many improvements made. As far as players out of position goes, two of our half-forward/wing types are playing defensive roles in the back half and that has worked so it is not solely a matter of returning to normal transmission.
I think there's been two real differences in how we have gone about things since losing to Richmond. One is a total change in the philosphy of our game plan - it is now more conservative and in line with the team's actual ability. The second is the improvement in the senior players - say what you like about the likes of Riska, Brennan, Moody & co, but the improved contribution from Browny, Power, Vossy and Black is giving the younger guys the confidence to play at this level and know that someone has "got their back" if they stuff up.
Grimreepah
22 May 2006, 11:32
It would pay to keep in mind that said posters share more than a similar mindset.
I have wondered about this.
jmerino
22 May 2006, 11:36
I have wondered about this.
All the others, that don't agree with the sheep on here, is that who you guys are pointing the finger at.moi and others.
Grimreepah
22 May 2006, 11:53
All the others, that don't agree with the sheep on here, is that who you guys are pointing the finger at.moi and others.
A couple of posters seem to be taking every opportunity to put Leigh in a bad light. The one dimensionality of these posters suggest that they hold a grudge of some sort.
jmerino
22 May 2006, 11:57
A couple of posters seem to be taking every opportunity to put Leigh in a bad light. The one dimensionality of these posters suggest that they hold a grudge of some sort.
Maybe they can think outside the clostered square that is Queensland football.The mesiah stuff.All clubs have good and bad times, its how they manage their bad times that is important to us at the moment.We are fluffing it a bit IMO.
Grimreepah
22 May 2006, 12:28
Maybe they can think outside the clostered square that is Queensland football.
Said posters seem to be attacking Leigh Matthews and no one else.
All clubs have good and bad times
Exactly. That's the system that has been put in place.
We are fluffing it a bit IMO.
How?
I have heard said posters latch on to unsubstantiated gossip and milk it for all it is worth. I have heard that "many players are unhappy with Leigh" and that "Leigh forced Voss to drop Akermanis" and that "Akermanis has been sacked for the rest of the year". But the fact that it is coming from people with an axe to grind and the fact that there is no evidence to back up these claims means that I am not convinced. In fact it is disappointing, because I think he deserves better.
At the same time I don't expect people to agree with everything that Leigh does and if you have an opinion that Leigh would have been better off going about it a different way with regard to something, let's discuss it. At the same time if you have some tangible evidence of Leigh being in the wrong, then let's discuss that too.
jmerino
22 May 2006, 12:47
Said posters seem to be attacking Leigh Matthews and no one else.
Exactly. That's the system that has been put in place.
How?
I have heard said posters latch on to unsubstantiated gossip and milk it for all it is worth. I have heard that "many players are unhappy with Leigh" and that "Leigh forced Voss to drop Akermanis" and that "Akermanis has been sacked for the rest of the year". But the fact that it is coming from people with an axe to grind and the fact that there is no evidence to back up these claims means that I am not convinced. In fact it is disappointing, because I think he deserves better.
At the same time I don't expect people to agree with everything that Leigh does and if you have an opinion that Leigh would have been better off going about it a different way with regard to something, let's discuss it. At the same time if you have some tangible evidence of Leigh being in the wrong, then let's discuss that too.
You know, most of the stuff on here has been reported in ALL areas of the media.That is not just in the local Courier Mail, by all Sports writers.Melbourne papers, Melbourne and Brisbane radio and TV news and other sports programs. A lot of information has come out, but a lot of people on this board choose not to want to think about it, if its not something official from the club.Now that is just plain silly.he club is never ever going to come out and say a thing.
The media have their snouts and sources at all clubs, and whether we as supporters like it or not, mostly what is reported is true.We at Brisbane are not alone.
Grimreepah
22 May 2006, 12:55
The media have their snouts and sources at all clubs, and whether we as supporters like it or not, mostly what is reported is true.
Lol:D That's very humurous.
You know, most of the stuff on here has been reported in ALL areas of the media.That is not just in the local Courier Mail, by all Sports writers.Melbourne papers, Melbourne and Brisbane radio and TV news and other sports programs. A lot of information has come out, but a lot of people on this board choose not to want to think about it, if its not something official from the club.Now that is just plain silly.he club is never ever going to come out and say a thing.
The media have their snouts and sources at all clubs, and whether we as supporters like it or not, mostly what is reported is true.We at Brisbane are not alone.
"Information" does not include rumour, innuendo, supposition and opinion. Exactly how much of what has been reported is conclusively "information"?
A case in point was the Crackers Keenan article about Aker. That has been proven to be absolutely incorrect. At best, that article was supposition, at worst it was unfounded rumour. And yet, the mere fact that it was published adds further fuel to the fire surrounding Brisbane - regardless of its veracity. Now if Crackers had come out and said "Geez, the way Aker and the club are getting on at the moment, it wouldn't surprise me if one or both parties just decided to call it quits for the rest of the year". Then it becomes opinion and can be treated as such by the readership.
I disagree that "most of what is reported is true". Certainly, they get some things right - some journos more than others. But I feel entitled to view the work of some journos with scepticism because they insist on publishing unverified rumour.
Given the current climate of sports journalism in this country, you'd be a fool to believe everything you read. And this goes for all sports - ask any rugby union supporter how many different version of the Wallabies front row have been named by journos supposedly "in the know".
Bobby Beecroft
22 May 2006, 23:46
Well put Reepah & POBT.
Again well constructed concise answers to some illogical claims.
The press = leaders of the truth crusade :rolleyes:
Only sheep would believe such things.
Clostered Square of Qld football :rolleyes:
Personally lived in Melbourne all my life, like many Lions supporters....
& to be honest know sweet FA about Qld football.
Do I have the ability to think outside this infamous square, considering I didn't know it existed?
Does it really exist? (genuine question)
What exactly are we fluffing ATM??
I see a club attempting to do the right thing.
Playing youngsters in an attempt to rebuild, creating a discipline to which a new beginning should be built upon, etc, etc.
I really don't understand what more they could be doing??
The Flying Belgian
23 May 2006, 07:13
The media have their snouts and sources at all clubs...
Really? First-hand knowledge?
Once agin I say there's nothing wrong with questioning the machinations of the club from the coach down. Blind faith is not healthy.
For instance I've heard a few times some players (didn't hear any names) were concerned at how hard they were training pre-season. Tough boobies I say. Trying playing for Adelaide and they'll know what being trained hard means.
As for supposed personality clashes, all workplaces are made up of differenr personalities - it's how they manage those differences that matter and it's up to all parties to do so in a mature manner.
Some posters I know consistently stick up for the players and how they should be listened to more. But in my book, coaches coach, managers manage, administartors administrate and players play.
As for the media knowing all, I don't doubt there are relationships like that at a lot of clubs. But it's a two-way street. Clubs, including ours, have had varying ways of effectively controlling information in the past. But it's very easy for reporters to claim they have sources at a club and just be supposing - I don't think journalistic ethics are all that strong these days.
All the others, that don't agree with the sheep on here, is that who you guys are pointing the finger at.moi and others.
Jmerino, please don't take take offence at this but it is pretty funny that someone with the username "merino" is calling other people sheep!
beatnik
23 May 2006, 18:15
dear merino (not the sheepish kind ;))
everyone is entitled to their opinion and that includes you
if you have some info, then post it but it is important to name your source and the quality of your source if you want some credibility, otherwise you will be dismissed as having an agenda
i must admit to having been gobsmacked by some of the reactions on this board from supposed fans during what was an admittedly pretty ordinary start to the season; yours included
I am not afraid to consider challenging issues and, believe me, I need a lot of convincing about most things, not just football so I am no blind merino ;)
that said, i have noticed a certain tendency to assume the worst in every scenario in your posts - to me that makes me wonder are you:
a) a troll from another team seeking to stir up the users on this board
b) a new Lions fan spoiled by recent success (see my earlier post on this)
c) seeking revenge as Leigh ran over your cat
d) you are just a negative SOB
e) you are Aker's alias
The media have their snouts and sources at all clubs, and whether we as supporters like it or not, mostly what is reported is true.
this is simply untrue - I dont mean to condescend but you dont kow how the sports media operate...
Aker? c'mon the man is a publicity machine not an objective reporter...gee, do you think he might have lied or exaggerated his version of events? I love the guy but c'mon
I mean, would you keep a stright face while trying to convince someone that Aker was telling the truth on any of these corkers?
"I am going to play rugby with the Reds"
"The Swans have offered me a contract"
"I am going to play NFL"
it's not just Aker - 99% of anything Kevin Sheedy ever said was with an agenda of some kind...not all of it was untrue but you know it is always to his advantage...same with Leigh, same with the club, same with everyone involved with the game to greater or lesser degrees
just remember that there is something as bad as having your head in the sand and that it running about trying to convince the world the sky is about to fall in when the mid to long-term forecast is fine, fine, fine
Vipertooth
23 May 2006, 21:25
Leigh Matthews is the BEST COACH EVER
OMFG hope he stays at our mighty club for freakin ages!:D :thumbsu:
Crazy talk to want or think it's time for Leigh Matthews to move on.
A proven 4 time premiership winning coach is worth gold. Coaches like Sheedy or John Cahill or Wayne Bennett in NRL, guys that can stay at a club for over 20 years, must mean it really has nothing to do with moving coaches on and letting emerging young'uns develop under a 'fresh' regime.
Matthews, as long as he has full support and control over his role, and is happy to stay indefinately, would easily re-mould the Lions into a top 4 side. Sometimes teams take a dip for a few years, doesn't mean it's the coaches fault or the coach needs to be traded in.
Crazy talk. If you have one of those coaches in your club, hold onto them for dear life. Because you let them go and there'll be a merry-go-round of "fresh" coaches over the next 10 years and no real return to premiership success.
Agree with this post 100%. Articulated superbly. g.g. I know that Port have their issues but that sign calling for Mark Williams to move to Baghdad or whatever was amazing. Funny it seems like yesterday that he took Port to a flag. Port supporters must realise that key injuries and an aging group are a major reason for recent form.
roostersgal4eva
23 May 2006, 23:26
just remember that there is something as bad as having your head in the sand and that it running about trying to convince the world the sky is about to fall in when the mid to long-term forecast is fine, fine, fine
I dont agree - but i do think there was no 'medium' in this forum
either some where doing the head burrying or they had the sky is falling attitiude, with group chastised(sp?) the other and didnt try to think that the other may had a point
Personally, I had conserns with his ability to rebuld - conserns that have been eased during the year which makes the season much more enjoyable :D
But in my book, coaches coach, managers manage, administartors administrate and players play.
And this is true of all successful teams of any code of football. Using manchester United as an example Alex Ferguson brooks no player decent of any kind. Top striker van Nistleroy is going. Look to this mans past. He booted Ince and them Beckham. Have Manchester United stopped being winners? No. You should have read the fan sites when Beckham went but the sky did not fall. With 3 flags out of 4 grand final appearences the Mathews is a top shelf AFL coach. Yes we do have the right to question team selections, tactics, strategy etc but with his success it is way to early to discuss replacement.
Originally Posted by John
just remember that there is something as bad as having your head in the sand and that it running about trying to convince the world the sky is about to fall in when the mid to long-term forecast is fine, fine, fine
I dont agree - but i do think there was no 'medium' in this forum
either some where doing the head burrying or they had the sky is falling attitiude, with group chastised(sp?) the other and didnt try to think that the other may had a point
Personally, I had conserns with his ability to rebuld - conserns that have been eased during the year which makes the season much more enjoyable :D
:confused::confused::confused: when did I post this?
The Flying Belgian
24 May 2006, 09:04
I dont agree - but i do think there was no 'medium' in this forum
either some where doing the head burrying or they had the sky is falling attitiude, with group chastised(sp?) the other and didnt try to think that the other may had a point
I don't agree with that at all. I thought we had a wide spectrum of opinions.
Most of us at one time or another raise an eyebrow with respect to the football dpeartment and certain decisions. Most of us either raise the concern once and let it be or not mention it at all.
I asked those who questioned the football department to back up or expand on their claims, thus I was willing to entertain the possibility that all may not be rosy, but with no reply. I still concede there may be some fractuous relationships within the club, but if that were proven I wouldn't consider it the end of the world anyway.
I would agree that it's developed into an "us vs. them" thing and this isn't good. I like a healthy discussion and those posters putting across their opinions shouldn't be shunned from this place (and I hope they don't feel that way even though I could understand if that were the case).
I don't agree with that at all. I thought we had a wide spectrum of opinions.
Most of us at one time or another raise an eyebrow with respect to the football dpeartment and certain decisions. Most of us either raise the concern once and let it be or not mention it at all.
I asked those who questioned the football department to back up or expand on their claims, thus I was willing to entertain the possibility that all may not be rosy, but with no reply. I still concede there may be some fractuous relationships within the club, but if that were proven I wouldn't consider it the end of the world anyway.
I would agree that it's developed into an "us vs. them" thing and this isn't good. I like a healthy discussion and those posters putting across their opinions shouldn't be shunned from this place (and I hope they don't feel that way even though I could understand if that were the case).
Well put.
In fact, I think that this season has lead to far more robust debate on here. I feel that most people here find a balance between blind optimism and pure negativism. Some people are closer to one end of the spectrum than the other and that creates the debate which makes this board great for those who want to discuss footy.
Grimreepah
24 May 2006, 11:14
I think the reason that this debate has turned into a bit of an us vs them issue is because coaching is a very subjective profession. In many aspects there is no right or wrong way to do things. People tend to naturally form a liking or disliking for the coach, and the fact that there is little in the way of objective measures means that people are likely to stick by their opinion.
Now my own personal opinion is that I encourage debate. I don't see why anyone would bury their head in the sand. This is not like an unpaid tax bill where people try to forget it, the fans are always proactive in getting what's best for the footy club. I would be interested in hearing what issues roostersgalforeva think posters have been burying their head in the sand about.
What annoys me is when people make inneundo or bring unsubstantiated gossip into it. I don't think either of these are intended for active debate, but are rather designed to push an agenda.
What annoys me is when people make inneundo or bring unsubstantiated gossip into it.
In the defence of those that do, it is hard not to get caught up in the gossip and innuendo when so much of it is derived from the state's most popular newspaper.
jmerino
24 May 2006, 13:43
In the defence of those that do, it is hard not to get caught up in the gossip and innuendo when so much of it is derived from the state's most popular newspaper.
Also hard to actually know stuff, due to friendships, and not wanting to get them into trouble.You see what happened to Aka could happen to your friend.
Also hard to actually know stuff, due to friendships, and not wanting to get them into trouble.You see what happened to Aka could happen to your friend.
my friend???
Bobby Beecroft
24 May 2006, 20:26
What annoys me is when people make inneundo or bring unsubstantiated gossip into it. I don't think either of these are intended for active debate, but are rather designed to push an agenda.
In other words just speak sh1t.......... & when challenged on these comments are unable to back them up with cold hard facts!!!
Generally due to their lack of understanding of the game, but it may even be as simple as maturity who knows?
I'm just glad that quite a few others have also picked it up.
I don't think anyone is burying their heads in the sand, but FFS we do need to be realistic.
Here are some facts:
Our stars are ageing, therefore more injury prone & honestly just not as good as they once were.
Some of our youngsters have been thrown to the wolves a little & perhaps have been produced a little earlier than what might have been ideal.
We ARE rebuilding. Some don't like the word but it's the only way to describe the phase we are in.
We have had more injury set backs than any other club in the league......... How many do Collingwood have ? Where are they positioned? Mere coincidence?
We have by far used more players in 2006 than any other club.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing given we need to find out those that are up to it, but performances will be indifferent as a result.
You good go on all night.
Yet some seem to think Lethal can perform miracles.
All I am saying is that he surely has earned that opportunity to have 1st crack at our newer list ........... this not placing your head in the sand, in fact its having the ability to analytically look at the current plight of our list & club, without flying off the handle or harbouring hidden agendas.
Despite the last 2 weeks there is tough times ahead, & Lethal may not make it through the other side (not many do apart from Sheeds), but let's at least give him a fresh chance to create a squad that can take us back were we belong.
Go Lions!!!!
The Flying Belgian
24 May 2006, 22:09
In other words just speak sh1t.......... & when challenged on these comments are unable to back them up with cold hard facts!!!
That's BigFooty down to a tee. :D
But bear in mind that if you're quite close to the club as a few are here in Brisbane, sometimes you can't say too much because something has come from a player or staff member and you don't want to betray that trust. Unfortunately, as much as you may want to defend a player, if you can't back it up you should really keep your mouth shut. There's been a few occasions where I've wanted to pass on stuff I've heard because it would be of interest to everyone here, but couldn't. Something to chew over.
That's BigFooty down to a tee. :D
But bear in mind that if you're quite close to the club as a few are here in Brisbane, sometimes you can't say too much because something has come from a player or staff member and you don't want to betray that trust. Unfortunately, as much as you may want to defend a player, if you can't back it up you should really keep your mouth shut. There's been a few occasions where I've wanted to pass on stuff I've heard because it would be of interest to everyone here, but couldn't. Something to chew over.
I find this an interesting comment. So there are posters who have inside info, gossip on players maybe, even team selections and then there are the likes of me who hear nothing other than that reported in the media. I feel a bit like a mushroom. :eek:.
The Flying Belgian
25 May 2006, 08:59
I find this an interesting comment. So there are posters who have inside info, gossip on players maybe, even team selections and then there are the likes of me who hear nothing other than that reported in the media. I feel a bit like a mushroom. :eek:.
Yep, although I'd guess they'd be quite a small percentage of posters. But yes, there will be a few who are friendly with certain players, but that's just it - they're friends, not groupies and so won't betray that trust. The closeness comes largely with going to training, ressies games or being involved in grass roots footy. There's even a few here who've previously been in the employ of the club. For all we know there still may be.
But it's why forums like this are useful - you can hear news about injuries and stuff like that. But when it comes to in-house stuff like tactics, contracts and the like you won't hear too much and nor should any of us really.
Btw, I'm not trying to bignote myself here. I don't know any Lions personally, but sometimes hear stuff from time to time.
jmerino
25 May 2006, 09:40
Yep, although I'd guess they'd be quite a small percentage of posters. But yes, there will be a few who are friendly with certain players, but that's just it - they're friends, not groupies and so won't betray that trust. The closeness comes largely with going to training, ressies games or being involved in grass roots footy. There's even a few here who've previously been in the employ of the club. For all we know there still may be.
But it's why forums like this are useful - you can hear news about injuries and stuff like that. But when it comes to in-house stuff like tactics, contracts and the like you won't hear too much and nor should any of us really.
Btw, I'm not trying to bignote myself here. I don't know any Lions personally, but sometimes hear stuff from time to time.
or as in a case I know,you are actually friends of a certain player, have been since they were young nippers.Yet you can't and wont break their confidence, but really know that a lot of :D:D:D:D is said on this board, and that you hate the club and staff for what they do to the players.How they hurt,how their families hurt.yet, you can't say squat.
Grimreepah
25 May 2006, 09:54
or as in a case I know,you are actually friends of a certain player, have been since they were young nippers.Yet you can't and wont break their confidence, but really know that a lot of :D:D:D:D is said on this board, and that you hate the club and staff for what they do to the players.How they hurt,how their families hurt.yet, you can't say squat.
Speaking of innuendo.........
jmerino
25 May 2006, 10:04
Speaking of innuendo.........
Ever thought it might be the truth.or is that not allowed on this board.
Grimreepah
25 May 2006, 10:10
Ever thought it might be the truth.or is that not allowed on this board.
What truth? You're rubbishing the club and not saying why.
If Jason Akermanis didn't play for the Lions, would you still support them?
jmerino
25 May 2006, 10:17
What truth? You're rubbishing the club and not saying why.
If Jason Akermanis didn't play for the Lions, would you still support them?
Where did that come from.
You can support the team that runs around on the park each week, but you don't have to like the actions of the club.Doesn't mean you don't support the team, or pay your membership money.
FYI, Aka is Aka, and he is not who I was talking about.
I support some players who played for us and are now gawn, is that a crime.I love watching Doc, loved Piggy Fletcher, is that wrong.
Grimreepah
25 May 2006, 10:32
Ever thought it might be the truth.or is that not allowed on this board.
Everything I have heard you say is pro Aka/anti Leigh, so I can't help being suspicious that you have an agenda.
So when you say 'I know something, but I can't tell you' which supports that agenda, I find it almost laughable that you have a go at me for not believing you.
jmerino
25 May 2006, 10:39
Everything I have heard you say is pro Aka/anti Leigh, so I can't help being suspicious that you have an agenda.
So when you say 'I know something, but I can't tell you' which supports that agenda, I find it almost laughable that you have a go at me for not believing you.
I would go back and logically look at my posts if I was you.You have no idea what I am trying to say.Do you think Leigh is the only person in a club?
Grimreepah
25 May 2006, 10:45
I would go back and logically look at my posts if I was you.You have no idea what I am trying to say.Do you think Leigh is the only person in a club?
Just because you're attacking more people than just Leigh, does not mean I am wrong.