View Full Version : Is Cook the best and most composed young batsman ever?
How many other guys in their early 20's have looked so good early in their career? Even someone like Viv Richards lacked composure before he really got going. He was a nervous starter and Lillee had his measure until he cashed in England in 1976 making Tony Greig grovel to him instead of the reverse.
Cooldude
12 May 2006, 09:42
Michael Clarke
Michael Clarke
I think he was 23 on debut though, Cook was 20 and now is only 21.
Cooldude
12 May 2006, 11:30
I was more hinted at how a player can score runs and looked compose in the first few matches they play but in reality they ain't really good enough once opposition work them out, like Michael Clarke
Give Cook a couple more matches to see how good he is, although I think he's better than Collingwood or Bell, though the Magpie's been making runs for England
pluga_4
12 May 2006, 11:34
a young fella named ricky ponting looked composed when given a dodgy lbw decision on 96 on his debut :)
Sanguinarius
12 May 2006, 11:34
a young player being overhyped?
must be english
AB "Say hi to your mum, no seriously" de Villiers.
Cooldude
12 May 2006, 11:48
AB "Say hi to your mum, no seriously" de Villiers.
The same AB who can't make runs for :D:D:D:D at present?
The same AB who can't make runs for :D:D:D:D at present?
Yep.
The same AB"I'm 21 yet I sh.it all over Clarke who is a youngster yet is 25" de Villiers.
Also has more test centuries and a better average V England.
:)
Hashim Amla says hi to Romeo :thumbsu:
just maybe
12 May 2006, 12:08
How many other guys in their early 20's have looked so good early in their career? Even someone like Viv Richards lacked composure before he really got going. He was a nervous starter and Lillee had his measure until he cashed in England in 1976 making Tony Greig grovel to him instead of the reverse.
Mark Cosgrove.
just maybe
12 May 2006, 12:09
I think he was 23 on debut though, Cook was 20 and now is only 21.
You said early 20s. As far as I recall 23 is still early 20s.
just maybe
12 May 2006, 12:09
Hashim Amla says hi to Romeo :thumbsu:
Amla? Hahahahaha! The guy couldn't do anything right when he debuted! :D
Cooldude
12 May 2006, 12:28
Yep.
The same AB"I'm 21 yet I sh.it all over Clarke who is a youngster yet is 25" de Villiers.
Also has more test centuries and a better average V England.
:)
Both of them are as bad as each other as far as playing dumb:D:D:D:D get-out shots are concerned
utility
12 May 2006, 13:40
Sachin Tendulkar. He averaged almost 45 and scored five test centuries, including 148* in Australia and 165 versus England, all before he turned 20! :eek:
The Mighty Port Power
12 May 2006, 13:47
How many other guys in their early 20's have looked so good early in their career? Even someone like Viv Richards lacked composure before he really got going. He was a nervous starter and Lillee had his measure until he cashed in England in 1976 making Tony Greig grovel to him instead of the reverse.
Richards had a few decent innings under his belt prior to that 1976 series against England (5 Fifties and 5 hundreds).
johnnyhoward
12 May 2006, 15:20
You said early 20s. As far as I recall 23 is still early 20s.
Cook >>>>>>>>> Clarke
davey_magik
12 May 2006, 16:48
Although he is in and out of the side, Salman Butt has been pretty damn good considering he is only 21 and made that ton against Australia.
There was this guy who made 100 off 37 in his ODI debut, but you wouldn't call him composed :p .
I dont know if any of the Aus posters have seen him bat but he is very composed correct and doesnt play any flash shots .Havind said that he is still able to score at a fair rate .He has looked good against spin in India and yesterday after some early problems seemed to come to terms with Muralitharen .
I dont think anyone is getting carried away but after starting so well he is bound to get some plaudits .Supposedly he is good against pace but we all know his real test will be Warne bowling 35+overs a day in the ashes
Grimwood
12 May 2006, 18:07
He's not the best young batsman ever but I must admit to being taken aback by the ease with which he seems to maintain his concentration.
It is too early to get too excited but he appears to be exactly the sort of batsmen England need to slot in with the Trescothicks, Pietersens and Flintoffs of this world. Patient, steady and intelligent but with that bit of class that lifts him above the merely gritty.
eddiesmith
12 May 2006, 18:11
A good chant for the Boxing Day test if Clarkey or any other NSW batsman plays and in the spirit of the Season
"You wish you were as good as Cooky"
"You wish you were as good as Cooky"
"You wish you were as good as Cooky"
"You New South Wales hack"
Grimreepah
12 May 2006, 18:18
A good chant for the Boxing Day test if Clarkey or any other NSW batsman plays and in the spirit of the Season
"You wish you were as good as Cooky"
"You wish you were as good as Cooky"
"You wish you were as good as Cooky"
"You New South Wales hack"
It's funnier if you think of something clever.
F/D AB fails too much to be considered really good. How often does he go out, including getting bowled for low scores? And they've had to move him down the order. And he bats in a frentic at times, not composed manner. I'd even say the fat prick showed more composure than him, especially in that series against the poms when I think he was only 22. And AB is 22, not 21, for your info. And quite frankly he disappointed me in the series in SA, I was prepared to select him, like KP, as an overseas player I had a liking for an interest in, but he didn't cut muster.
Cooldude
12 May 2006, 19:24
Saw some highlights of him, enough to judge his technique, can't judge a player's mental approach to batting with highlights though
Very standard back and across movement, moves across a long way, good simple backlift. Big man, very tall. Superb backfoot player, plays straight and very good defensively. Does have the tendancy to not get forward enough though, would have to watch for being lbwed as his trigger movement brings him across a long way and at times he can get stuck and don't put a big stride forward
There's nothing wrong with the technique, it's a simple, solid and basic technique that will stand him in good stead for the next 15 years. He seems to have a good head and not prone to the moronic Hollywood shots that the dumb kids try nowadays, so that's an even bigger plus
Amla? Hahahahaha! The guy couldn't do anything right when he debuted! :D
And yet scored 149 and 50 in his comeback test yet is only 22?
:)
Browney
12 May 2006, 20:27
Mark Cosgrove.
Yet to prove himself.
davey_magik
12 May 2006, 20:40
When he faces Shoaib and Asif and does well I'll say he's a very, very good young batsmen.
And yet scored 149 and 50 in his comeback test yet is only 22?
:)
Amla is 23.
Grimreepah
12 May 2006, 21:01
Romeo. If being 21 was a prerequisite to qualify for your question, you should have said so in your opening post.
Romeo. If being 21 was a prerequisite to qualify for your question, you should have said so in your opening post.
No, am merely pointing out to F/D that he tries to make his Proteas actually sound younger than they are. No disputing the fact that Amla and AB are young enough to qualify for composure if indeed they had it.
I think with cook, everyone who's worked with him mentions his mentality, apparently very mature & is a quick learner but remains fairly laid back.
He seems pretty good now but you'd expect him to digest the lessons that will be thrown up better than most young players.
To me the million dollar question will be whether with experience & confidence that he manages to dominate the bowling more.At the moment he tends to score quite steadily but doesn't seem to get on top of the bowling, although unlike some mugs he doesn't get anxious if the runs aren't coming.
He could end up scoring heavily & with a good average without having that aura of greatness.
The hope for me is that Essex didn't play him in one dayers for most of last season because they felt he couldn't step on the gas but this season & the end of last they've put him in & he's scored quickly.In a 10 day slog the other day he opened with Irani (who goes the tonk in English domestic cricket) & he left him standing until Irani took 23 off one over.
So hopefully he's just kinda building his career a bit like he builds an innings, nice & steady to start with & then when he feels more confident will impose himself a bit.
But at the moment I'm happy to see a batsman in there who doesn't take on the risky shots, hardly ever sweeps & doesn't seem to waft outside off stump, as Grimwood said with the current England batting they need a more pragmatic character in there.Be interesting to see if Cooldude is proved correct about him being an LBW candidate, my guess is that even if it becomes a problem that he'll solve it, for the me the thing I don't like is that he sometimes defends with the bat pushed away from his body.His big strength is that anything on his pads is gone, puts the right arm quicks under a bit of pressure there.
Couldn't have gone much better so far, averaging 68 now.:thumbsu:
Be good to see how he deals with Murali when it's really turning.
If Vaughan does get back it'd probably help him to bat at 4, his footwork's a bit iffy these days, Pietersen at 5 suits me as well.
Browney
12 May 2006, 21:50
Would have to go close
Wasn't Len Hutton 21 or 23 when he broke Bradman's record Test score at the Oval?
Grimreepah
12 May 2006, 22:45
Sachin Tendulkar. He averaged almost 45 and scored five test centuries, including 148* in Australia and 165 versus England, all before he turned 20! :eek:
I agree with this. Tendulkar was playing like a seasoned veteran at 18. You could not imagine anyone more composed. I have not seen Cook, but Tendulkar is my benchmark.
Ice goddess
12 May 2006, 22:58
What about Greg Chappell? Had recently turned 22 when he played his first test against England and came in at 5/107 on a seaming deck against John Snow in Perth's first ever test. Started slowly but his second 50 basically came up in even time on the way to 108 on test debut. At 23 he made a flawless 131 at Lord's which Benaud describes as one of the greatest ever innings. Looked unflustered, mature, full of class and played every shot in the book including his peerless on-drive.
SorryIHammerChicken
12 May 2006, 23:09
Mark Cosgrove.
Yeah that 70 against the mighty Bangers was awesome.
Champion, best batsman of his era
crownie
12 May 2006, 23:43
not ever
Sri lankans attack is pretty woeful and i wouldnt call a guy getting out for 89 chasing a wide one late in the day composed.
a good effort no doubt.
Cooldude
13 May 2006, 00:15
Be interesting to see if Cooldude is proved correct about him being an LBW candidate, my guess is that even if it becomes a problem that he'll solve it
It wouldn't be that big a problem, he'd only have problems if the ball's swinging anyway, particularly for an opener or first drop. He seems to have a good enough eye and lovely, lovely wrists to not miss out on anything on his pads
For a 20 year old, he looks like someone who's batted at the top for ages and shows the maturity that you expect from a Senior player. He's a breathe of fresh air from those gung ho kamikaze shot per ball immature kids that this generation seem to be bringing
He's the type of player England needs at third and fourth, steady and solid who can compliment the strokemakers they have in the middle order
With the way he plays off the backfoot, he shouldn't have any problems at all come the Ashes on the bouncier pitches
just maybe
13 May 2006, 11:11
And yet scored 149 and 50 in his comeback test yet is only 22?
:)
Erm, did you see him play? His wafts outside off-stump are begging for nicks with better attacks than the dobblers of NZ, and he got out to some shockingly awful shots.
As for his 149...are we talking composure or catatonia?
Ice goddess
13 May 2006, 11:45
Erm, did you see him play? His wafts outside off-stump are begging for nicks with better attacks than the dobblers of NZ, and he got out to some shockingly awful shots.
As for his 149...are we talking composure or catatonia?
Good point there but even though NZ has an ordinary attack like Sri Lanka, the pitches they played on in South Africa were by and large very helpful to the seamers which meant that anyone batting at the top of the order was challenged. Amla came in early in the last test when the ball was swinging and the kiwis had just been dismissed for 119 and proceeded to make a decent 50.
not ever
Sri lankans attack is pretty woeful and i wouldnt call a guy getting out for 89 chasing a wide one late in the day composed.
a good effort no doubt.
Just like to point out one SL bowler has 600 test wickets one has 300 +and thats woeful is it .
Englands attack consists of three bowlers who have played 5 tests between them so actually SLs attack is way more experienced
Sachin Tendulkar. He averaged almost 45 and scored five test centuries, including 148* in Australia and 165 versus England, all before he turned 20! :eek:
This thread should have ended with this comment.
No, am merely pointing out to F/D that he tries to make his Proteas actually sound younger than they are. No disputing the fact that Amla and AB are young enough to qualify for composure if indeed they had it.
Amla is better than Clarke.
just maybe
16 May 2006, 23:28
Amla is better than Clarke.
No, he isn't.
No, he isn't.
Well that's a compelling argument.
just maybe
17 May 2006, 08:25
Well that's a compelling argument.
Well, it was a stupid comment.