The Victorian Alliance

[Flag Man]

* As Port Adelaide are a traditional club and a club that embraces tradition, I have decided to add my thread to your board.

It signifies the respect I have for your club.

None of the other interstate clubs have been included.*


I am interested in hearing peoples idea on a combined membership lobby that exists solely to protect the existing Victorian Football culture.

I strongly believe that if we, the fans, simply stand back and do nothing, then within a few decades, only 3 or 4 of the existing Victorian clubs will be still be alive.

The current divide and conquer mentality will be our downfall.

We must take back the game now before we have been weakened to the point of no return.

Our code is much more than a game and it is as culturally intrinsic as Uluru or the slouch hat.

Our culture is at stake, will you join the fight?
__________________

[Pred]

I strongly believe that if we, the fans, simply stand back and do nothing, then within a few decades, only 3 or 4 of the existing Victorian clubs will be still be alive.I thank you for your thread, but my honest opinion is that 3 or 4 clubs is about the right number for Victoria (ultimately).

Tradition is great to a point, but there are other realities of this competition, such as despite it being the AFL, it's still waaaaaay too Vic-centric. Sadly, some clubs will have to merge, relocate or die, in the future.

[Andre]

My view is a bit of a 'foot in both camps'. On the one hand, as a supporter of a long established club, I'd rather all the existing clubs continue. On the other hand it is now an AFL, not the VFL and for a national competition having 10 out of 16 teams from one state - especially when the state obviously can't support it (3 and with Carlton about to be 4 of 10 on the CBF) is obviously flawed on multiple levels.

I'd like to see two Victorian teams relocate - one to Western Sydney, one to the Gold Coast. It's not ideal for the supporters of the relocated club, but for the game to stay the premier sport in Australia and all clubs to stay afloat without help, it's going to have to happen sometime. True supporters would keep supporting the club. As South Melbourne supporters would have for the Swans moving to Sydney or how Port supporters did on having to give up our Black and White and Magpies nickname.

[Porthos]

I would rather join a Worthwhile Clubs alliance.

[The Mighty Port Power]

You need to make your mind up. We do not need to be part of a Victorian "Alliance" we are from South Australia, and are very happy about that. 3-4 Clubs from Victoria is about the right number. If clubs are so badly supported and managed that they can not remain as a viable club, then let them die. This is a sport, sport rewards the strong and disposes of the weak. Survival of the strongest is the way to go. We will survive.

[The Mighty Port Power]

I would rather join a Worthwhile Clubs alliance.
So it's just us in that one then :thumbsu:

[Crowked]

None of the other interstate clubs have been included.[/U
Looks like you should have just asked your self in the mirror. Your the only one of your opinion.

Anyone who has the ability to stand back and talk about this issue with a level head and common sense knows 10 clubs in Victoria is far too many and cant be sustained with out masive financial assistance. Its a no brainer!!

Anyone who genuinely respects the tradition of Australian Rules football, understands that football is as much an part of life for Crows and Eagles fans as much as anyone else. We have played the game for generation just like your mob and if you think your losing out, perhaps consider the sacrifices weve made. They dwarf the very insignificant ones youve made in comparison.

Tosser!!

[wharfie_1870]

.....I am interested in hearing peoples idea on a combined membership lobby that exists solely to protect the existing Victorian Football culture.....Why would any Port supporter want to protect the "Victorian Football cuture" :confused: Surely Dimwitriou and his band of clowns are doing a very good job of that.

This is a joke, right?

[Troy Wingate]

Victoria may have once ruled the football world, 10-20 years ago, but not any more. 10 AFL clubs in victoria is way too many. Why not spread things out over the country.

We've got West Coast and Fremantle in WA
Port Adelaide and Adelaide in SA
Brisbane in QLD
Sydney in NSW
No one in the Northern Territory
No one in Tasmania.

Move a team to the NT (Bulldogs?), move a team to Tassie (Hawthorn?) move a team to QLD (Kangaroo's?) and another team to NSW (Carlton?)

If these teams are the right teams to move, then move the Victorian teams in the biggest financial dept (Carlton is in the biggest trouble).

[Pred]

I'm sure none of the posters on this board would like to be in Flagman's position, if the boot were on the other foot. North is one of the clubs under threat.

So while we don't agree with him, perhaps we could show an ounce of empathy.

[wharfie_1870]

I'm sure none of the posters on this board would like to be in Flagman's position, if the boot were on the other foot. North is one of the clubs under threat.

So while we don't agree with him, perhaps we could show an ounce of empathy.Yeah, just like the empathy we showed for the Fitzroy supporters when their club folded to make way for the PAFC to enter the AFL ;)

Seriously though, I do empathise with Flag Man but trying to form a Victorian Alliance is not the way to go about saving his club. The AFL is already a compromised competition and if Victorian clubs have to be kept on life support just because they are Victorian clubs the competition is further compromised. We cop a lot of sh:Dt from supporters of Vic clubs about being "allowed" to join "their" competition but the money keeping many of those clubs alive comes form media rights revenue that only a national competition can command.

[Toots Hibbert]

Sorry Flag Man,

I think Victoria can support a few more than 3 or 4 clubs but definitely not ten in the long term. Some of the Victorian clubs will have to move interstate or face amalgamation or winding up.

The VFL suffered the fate of many organisations overwhelmed by the trend toward globalisation. The national competition is now the order of the day. Victorian clubs will have to weigh up their chances of survival in their home state. If they are concerned about their prospects they would be wise to move interstate at a time of their own choosing which will enable them to retain as much of their history and traditions as possible.

I'd like eventually to see a third South Australian side in the comp and think it would be great if that could be an SANFL club side, however due to the mindless jealousy of the non Port clubs in 1990 that is unlikely.

[Porthos]

The part I find most amusing is that never, ever, ever do these Victorians think that maybe allying with the non-Victorian clubs, that don't have a 100 year history of specifically hating them, could be a good idea.

Beyond Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon, for the most part we don't give a :D:D:D:D who else makes the cut and stays around. It could be their club, but not if they keep trying to freeze us out with purely pro-Vic crap.

[Port01]

Play in the VFL. Club survives and continues. Same thing the Victorian clubs had no problem doing to Port Adelaide FC back in 1990. Go back to a minor league, get your acts together and then see if you have a club that can survive in a national competition. The WAFL and SANFL were the number one leagues in town and quite vibrant until the then VFL decided they wanted the money.

Now that may sound mean, but it is hard to take people from clubs that did it to us. There is only one club out of the entire WA and SA football history that has made the transition to the AFL. Talk about preserving tradition as much as you want, but 1 out of 18 isn't a great strike rate for preserving traidition in our states.

[ExpectToWin]

As a kid growing up in the late 70's and early 80's and catching two buses to go and watch Port Adelaide play it was very frustrating when the Victorian Football Clubs with their BIG money would lure our great players and my idols over to Victoria.

EG

Russel Ebert
Craig Bradley
Greg Anderson
Greg Phillips
Bruce Abernethy
Mark Williams
Gavin Wanganeen

Adding to this they also stole the great players from other teams. Here are just a few.

Graham Cornes
Peter Motley
Mark Naley
John Platten
Stephen Kernahan
Tony McGuiness
Tony Hall

This hurt on 2 levels,

1) My football hero's were being pawned from the club I love
2) The competition as a whole was constantly being weakened by the Victorian invasion on our greatest players.

So now some of the Victorian Clubs are starting to suffer financially and their existence is threatened I say SUCK IT DOWN!

[finbarr]

I'm sure none of the posters on this board would like to be in Flagman's position, if the boot were on the other foot. North is one of the clubs under threat.

So while we don't agree with him, perhaps we could show an ounce of empathy.

Agree. And Flag Man's a good boke. "Tosser" was a bit over the top.

[Capital Power]

Perhaps we could compare experiences with those in the NRL, which was until a generation ago an exclusive Sydney competition (in those days I could go to every single game and pay no more than 30c train fare - now I need a mortgage to come and see my beloved Power).

Every supporter worried about their club folding or merging, and they have some truly strange "joint ventures" which offer nothing in terms of heritage or even logic (eg St George and Illawarra merged despite the fact that geographically they sit apart from each other separated by Cronulla - Wests and Balmain merged and then started playing in Campbelltown which is thirty kms from either.) Do we really want this in the AFL? More "franchise" teams that are a poor compromise (not mentioning any names ;))?

Seems to me if the Victorians love their footy as much as we do then they'll each get 30,000 bums on seats each week and all will be rosy.

HOWEVER (sorry to rant, mods please feel free to cut off if you wish :-)) the AFL is still far too Vic-centric in its dealings - things like the draw and the sycophancy with which Collingwood's puerile position on our heritage jumper are accepted spring to mind. Perhaps the administration could be a little more geographically balanced.

Oh, on the subject of the draw, does anyone else think its unfair that the Dogs have to play two games at AAMI stadium so close together?

[tugga]

As a kid growing up in the late 70's and early 80's and catching two buses to go and watch Port Adelaide play it was very frustrating when the Victorian Football Clubs with their BIG money would lure our great players and my idols over to Victoria.

EG

Russel Ebert
Craig Bradley
Greg Anderson
Greg Phillips
Bruce Abernethy
Mark Williams
Gavin Wanganeen

Adding to this they also stole the great players from other teams. Here are just a few.

Graham Cornes
Peter Motley
Mark Naley
John Platten
Stephen Kernahan
Tony McGuiness
Tony Hall

This hurt on 2 levels,

1) My football hero's were being pawned from the club I love
2) The competition as a whole was constantly being weakened by the Victorian invasion on our greatest players.

So now some of the Victorian Clubs are starting to suffer financially and their existence is threatened I say SUCK IT DOWN!

Did you ever think for one second that these blokes came over because they actually wanted to? Oh no, they were dragged by the hair and threatened with rape and pillage to their wives and daughters. They choose to play in the VFL because it was superior competition, and being the athletes and comsumate professionals they were, they wanted to test themselves against the best, not just once every year when State of Origin took place. Seriously, I don;t expect anyway who supports a non-Vic team to sympathise with a Vic team that is struggling (like mine). But comments like 'suck it' shows that a minority of pin-headed idiots still exist. Thankfully the majority are level heade enough to see the bigger picture for all. At the end of the day, we are all Australians. Thanks and apologies for intruding on your site.

[Capital Power]

Tugga's right (even if he does sound like one John Howard... ;) ). The existence of a strong, balanced competition (provided we win) is a boon for all. That's the way to get the punters in.

At the moment the Kangaroos are tossing up between sticking to Canberra for a few games a year or taking more money and doing the same on the Gold Coast. The whole thing is a big yawn and does nothing for any local fan who wants to be loyal to "his" team, which could be yanked out from under him on the whim of a public servant... Even if I didn't bleed teal I wouldn't follow them for that reason.

It demeans the team and the competition and it MUST affect membership numbers and attendances. If I followed a Victorian team I wouldn't want anyone telling me I had to relocate interstate or merge with some cross-town arch enemy.

Tugga, small consolation I know but my son and his junior team are coming down to Melbourne soon to see you guys at the G against North and theyre very excited about lunch at the Tigers Club before the game. THAT'S the way to secure our future.....

[tugga]

Tugga's right (even if he does sound like one John Howard... ;) ). The existence of a strong, balanced competition (provided we win) is a boon for all. That's the way to get the punters in.

At the moment the Kangaroos are tossing up between sticking to Canberra for a few games a year or taking more money and doing the same on the Gold Coast. The whole thing is a big yawn and does nothing for any local fan who wants to be loyal to "his" team, which could be yanked out from under him on the whim of a public servant... Even if I didn't bleed teal I wouldn't follow them for that reason.

It demeans the team and the competition and it MUST affect membership numbers and attendances. If I followed a Victorian team I wouldn't want anyone telling me I had to relocate interstate or merge with some cross-town arch enemy.

Tugga, small consolation I know but my son and his junior team are coming down to Melbourne soon to see you guys at the G against North and theyre very excited about lunch at the Tigers Club before the game. THAT'S the way to secure our future.....

Capital: Will have to put on my tracksuit and go for an early morning walk tomorrow with all my minders, just like Little Johnny. Tell your little bloke and his mates, they are all welcomE!

[mark73]

As a kid growing up in the late 70's and early 80's and catching two buses to go and watch Port Adelaide play it was very frustrating when the Victorian Football Clubs with their BIG money would lure our great players and my idols over to Victoria.

EG

Russel Ebert
Craig Bradley
Greg Anderson
Greg Phillips
Bruce Abernethy
Mark Williams
Gavin Wanganeen
The players could have said no.
Adding to this they also stole the great players from other teams. Here are just a few.

Graham Cornes
Peter Motley
Mark Naley
John Platten
Stephen Kernahan
Tony McGuiness
Tony Hall
The players could have said no.


1) My football hero's were being pawned from the club I loveThe players could have said no.
2) The competition as a whole was constantly being weakened by the Victorian invasion on our greatest players.
The players could have said no.
I say SUCK IT DOWN!
Sucking is something you A-derr-laide people have mastered the art of.Don't bring your homosexual advertising on to a public forum.

[Porthos]

Masterful, mark73. Makes it so much easier to watch your club go down the gurgler when you act like that.

[GO 161]

So now some of the Victorian Clubs are starting to suffer financially and their existence is threatened I say SUCK IT DOWN!
Yep, agreed.
As far as I am concerned, Victoria can get stuffed.
And comments like the one posted by the moron above are the principal reason for this attitude.

[rayven]

As a kid growing up in the late 70's and early 80's and catching two buses to go and watch Port Adelaide play it was very frustrating when the Victorian Football Clubs with their BIG money would lure our great players and my idols over to Victoria.

EG

Russel Ebert
Craig Bradley
Greg Anderson
Greg Phillips
Bruce Abernethy
Mark Williams
Gavin Wanganeen

Adding to this they also stole the great players from other teams. Here are just a few.

Graham Cornes
Peter Motley
Mark Naley
John Platten
Stephen Kernahan
Tony McGuiness
Tony Hall

This hurt on 2 levels,

1) My football hero's were being pawned from the club I love
2) The competition as a whole was constantly being weakened by the Victorian invasion on our greatest players.

So now some of the Victorian Clubs are starting to suffer financially and their existence is threatened I say SUCK IT DOWN!


:thumbsu: :thumbsu: :thumbsu: Top Post.

[rayven]

Did you ever think for one second that these blokes came over because they actually wanted to? Oh no, they were dragged by the hair and threatened with rape and pillage to their wives and daughters. They choose to play in the VFL because it was superior competition, and being the athletes and comsumate professionals they were, they wanted to test themselves against the best, not just once every year when State of Origin took place.
Now did not the over inflated player payments in the VFL contribute to send the VFL broke?
Was not it these over inflated player payments that lured SA players over the border?

[Flag Man]

Thanks for taking the time to give your replies.

I am not trying in any way to be anti SA, I just wanted to appeal to the traditionalist supporters.

I personally, never agreed with the way the old VFL conducted itself, but I was only a young bloke back then.

I do not agree with the way the AFL has been structured also.

I can only hope that if the day ever comes that my club falls by the wayside, then we at least get to exist in the VFL.

Merging or relocating would mean that the club was dead to most of us, and the vast majority of North fans would be lost to AFL football.

I can't see it being different with any other club.

[dA Crow]

Thanks for taking the time to give your replies.

I am not trying in any way to be anti SA, I just wanted to appeal to the traditionalist supporters.

I personally, never agreed with the way the old VFL conducted itself, but I was only a young bloke back then.

I do not agree with the way the AFL has been structured also.

I can only hope that if the day ever comes that my club falls by the wayside, then we at least get to exist in the VFL.

Merging or relocating would mean that the club was dead to most of us, and the vast majority of North fans would be lost to AFL football.

I can't see it being different with any other club.
You think without the non Victorian sides the AFL would have had enough money to keep your team afloat? I seriously doubt that. Did you ever understand the expression "biting the hand that feeds you"?

[portentous]

I think 6 teams is about the right balance from Victoria. It would also mean that there would be more non-Vic teams, than Vic teams so their majority on the AFL Commission would disappear.

It would be sad to see some of the traditional clubs go, but if it was good enough for Woodville and West Torrens to merge, then dare I suggest it wouldn't hurt a few in Melbourne to bite the bullet?

[Ford Fairlane]

It would be sad to see some of the traditional clubs go, but if it was good enough for Woodville and West Torrens to merge, then dare I suggest it wouldn't hurt a few in Melbourne to bite the bullet?

That was a terrible decision by the SANFL. It's created the ridiculous bye situation and destroyed football passion for plenty of people - just have a look at the Woodville thread on the SANFL Board to see some genuine passion for your club. Still Bill Sanders was well rewarded by the SANFL for getting blood on his hands.

That merger is one of the reasons I have sympathy for Flag Man's cause.

[portentous]

The bye could easily be solved the Cows having a reserves side in the SANFL. Won't happen though.

The WWT Eagles are doing ok on and off field, which is more than you can say for some of the Victorian AFL sides. How long does the rest of the competition prop them up before we say "enough is enough"? Carlton should never have built their Taj Mahal at Optus and now they're suffering for it, along with salary cap breaches. Why should the other 15 sides have to pay for their mistakes??

[Flag Man]

I think 6 teams is about the right balance from Victoria. It would also mean that there would be more non-Vic teams, than Vic teams so their majority on the AFL Commission would disappear.

It would be sad to see some of the traditional clubs go, but if it was good enough for Woodville and West Torrens to merge, then dare I suggest it wouldn't hurt a few in Melbourne to bite the bullet?

IMO, the impact the AFL has had on the demise of local competitions is disgraceful.

If I had my way then the local leagues would have been left in place, with say the top 2 from every state playing off in an AFL carnival every year.

A national across the board salary cap, pooled funds and a similiar draft to what is currently in place would have protected the interests of ALL the clubs from poaching and inflationary pressures.

Question:

Did the AFL impact the Woodville/West Torrens merger?

[portentous]

No. Both Woodville and West Torrens were struggling financially and on field and made the only decision to allow both clubs to remain in some form in the SANFL.

[RogerRabbit69]

Sucking is something you A-derr-laide people have mastered the art of.Don't bring your homosexual advertising on to a public forum.
Gee, you're sure to win over all South Australians with those comments. Well done.

[Ford Fairlane]

IMO, the impact the AFL has had on the demise of local competitions is disgraceful.

If I had my way then the local leagues would have been left in place, with say the top 2 from every state playing off in an AFL carnival every year.

A national across the board salary cap, pooled funds and a similiar draft to what is currently in place would have protected the interests of ALL the clubs from poaching and inflationary pressures.

Question:

Did the AFL impact the Woodville/West Torrens merger?

It was used as an excuse by the SANFL and the GM's of both clubs to push through their agenda. IIRC Woodville were financially sound while Torrens were struggling. But Torrens had a wealth of history behind them that Woodville couldn't muster. But with the licence to print money the crows immediately became, WTFC could have been bailed out and with some stringent financial accountability would survive now.

All the WWTFC has seriously achieved is make Centrals a football powerhouse by handing them premiership after premiership. Even their self proclaimed dynasty after their flag win in 1993 came crashing down in a year, at the hands of the true masters of the football dynasty ... ;)

[Toots Hibbert]

Thanks for taking the time to give your replies.

I am not trying in any way to be anti SA, I just wanted to appeal to the traditionalist supporters.

I personally, never agreed with the way the old VFL conducted itself, but I was only a young bloke back then.

I do not agree with the way the AFL has been structured also.

I can only hope that if the day ever comes that my club falls by the wayside, then we at least get to exist in the VFL.

Merging or relocating would mean that the club was dead to most of us, and the vast majority of North fans would be lost to AFL football.

I can't see it being different with any other club.
Flag Man I think it would not be a bad outcome for your club if you moved to Sydney say in the western suburbs.

You'd get a lot of financial backing, your team would still play in Melbourne most weekends of the year and the true fanatics can make a few trips to Sydney each year. You'd pick up a lot of new supporters to add to the rusted on Melbourne ones.

Looked at that way you would be in a pretty fortunate position compared to another Melbourne club that could move to Queensland and risk being swallowed up by the Southport Sharks.

[Porthos]

The best result, if a club from Victoria is going to be ousted, is for them to just be relegated to the VFL. No bastard sons playing with your name and colours across the country, just a few new opponents.

[Flag Man]

Flag Man I think it would not be a bad outcome for your club if you moved to Sydney say in the western suburbs.


That isn't gonna work for me Toots, I am too entrenched in the North culture. Sooner or later the new demographic would dilute that culture.

If they relocate, I and many, many others won't be following them.

I will probably follow the soccer.


The best result, if a club from Victoria is going to be ousted, is for them to just be relegated to the VFL. No bastard sons playing with your name and colours across the country, just a few new opponents.

That is my wish should the dreadful day ever come.

I would just rather see the club still carry on in it's own right in a lower league.

We had our day in the sun, no-one could deny us that, and we would still have our dignity.

Aren't there a lot of the old Port fans that prefer to watch the Magpies rather than the Power?

I have heard that, and I can understand them doing that.