View Full Version : Richmonds activity in the upcomming 'Super-draft'
tomthetiger
8 Jul 2006, 14:33
Incorrect.
Same could have would have been said last year but the top shelf KPP we rated were all gone. Instead of going for a Clark we went for JON who we thought was the better prospect.
I have not been impressed with Riewoldt. I'd jump at Thorp however.
If Selwood really is the outstanding midfielder after Gibbs / a 19 year old Crawford type I'd be more than happy to take him with out first pick rathering than taking a 2nd rate tall.
What the ****? I dare say you've only seen him play once, and that was the one game they showed of the division 2 teams. In this game, he was very good for 3 quarters and won the game off his own boot in the last. I dont see how you can be non-impressed with that. Its funny how hype works. The media pump him up endlessely because of his surname, yet this means that the wannabee talent scouts like Bentleigh want to say that he is overrated at the first chance they receive. Its hard to really know how good he is unless you see a number of his games. Bentleigh knows nothing, and just assumes he is overrated because of his surname. Others are the opposite. In my view he is a late top10 pick. There is also no reason why he couldnt play in a KPP role. Is also versatile and can play back, or forward. Overall, If rather Thorp or another in the top5, but if it was out of Jetta, Mckenzie and Reiwoldt, Id take the last mentioned.
Bentleigh
8 Jul 2006, 18:54
[QUOTE=Weaver]Selwood has some raw talent but is no home-run selection. If he doesn't find the dedication he will pretty much follow Pettifer's example of a guy who traded on potential for 5 years before finally deciding to get fit enough to play.[QUOTE]
OK I will be a little less cryptic.
Selwood knows that he is going to be drafted that is why this year he has been focussing on getting his body right. He had more to gain by getting his body right than spending a week playing 3 games for Vic Country which he did last year and made the All Australian team. What would he of gained? Individual glory?
As I said before he has looked at what Chris Judd did the year prior to being drafted and has seen the advantage to being physically ready. Dedication is not the problem with the kid. He plays on a HBF simply as this is where the modern game is controlled not ruck rover or centre like it used to.
A good post.
Bentleigh
8 Jul 2006, 18:57
What the ****? I dare say you've only seen him play once, and that was the one game they showed of the division 2 teams.
Also saw him on the VFL for Tassie, and have spoken in deapth to a few people take see plenty of TAC matchs working with a club.
In this game, he was very good for 3 quarters and won the game off his own boot in the last. I dont see how you can be non-impressed with that. Its funny how hype works. The media pump him up endlessely because of his surname, yet this means that the wannabee talent scouts like Bentleigh want to say that he is overrated at the first chance they receive. Its hard to really know how good he is unless you see a number of his games. Bentleigh knows nothing, and just assumes he is overrated because of his surname. Others are the opposite. In my view he is a late top10 pick. There is also no reason why he couldnt play in a KPP role.
I don't underrate nor overrate him due to having a famous name. I have formed my ideas based on what I've seen, heard and read from the like of Mojo and Weaver.
All in all, im not impressed.
Is also versatile and can play back, or forward. Overall, If rather Thorp or another in the top5, but if it was out of Jetta, Mckenzie and Reiwoldt, Id take the last mentioned.
I'd rather Selwood.
tomthetiger
8 Jul 2006, 19:02
You may not be impressed, but you also havent seen enough, or know enough about him to make a serious judgement.
Bentleigh
8 Jul 2006, 19:35
You may not be impressed, but you also havent seen enough, or know enough about him to make a serious judgement.
Again, I form my 2 cents of what I have read, heard and viewed on telly.
Limbach_19
8 Jul 2006, 19:39
A grade Midfielder > B grade KPP
Bentleigh
8 Jul 2006, 19:43
A grade Midfielder > B grade KPP
:thumbsu:
Wouldn't be suprised to see Reiwolt slip down to Richmond's pick Richo, but I feel that you severely under-rate Thorp. From what I saw of him at the carnival, he looks Top 4 material to me. :thumbsu:
I agree, and I rate Thorp highly.
But is he better than Gumbleton, Hansen, Sellar or Gibbs? Thorp is a very good player, but IMO the players mentionned above are superstars. The way I see it is that one of the KPP will slip down, and IMO the top seven are Gibbs, Selwood, Gumbleton, Sellar, Hansen and Thorp. If we finish with pick seven, we will get one of those. IMO for Richmond Thorp will be better for us than Selwood, who is a great KPP.
Bentleigh
12 Jul 2006, 17:13
Just going by shear weight of numbers I'm starting to think KPP.
22 and under
KPP
Moore, Kelvin
Schulz, Jay
Pattison, Adam
Thursfield, Will
Limbach, Dean
Hughes, Cleve
McGuane, Luke
Graham, Angus (R)
Mid
Rodan, David
Howat, Cameron (R)
Hartigan, Brent
Foley, Nathan
Roach, Thomas
Raines, Andrew
Jackson, Daniel
Meyer, Danny
Polo, Dean
Tambling, Richard
White, Matthew
Deledio, Brett
Casserley, Travis
Oakley-Nicholls
---
Darth_Tiger
12 Jul 2006, 18:57
you always need more midfielders than talls.
philhawk
12 Jul 2006, 19:02
you always need more midfielders than talls.
I remember something I think John Kennedy said while he was coaching the Hawks,
"At 3/4 time, the smalls get slower, but the talls don't get any smaller!"
I'm not sure what you can take from that, but I think having an abundance of talls is better than an abundance of smalls. :thumbsu:
Bentleigh
12 Jul 2006, 19:04
you always need more midfielders than talls.
Correct.. but have a look at those talls:
Schultz, Pattison and Hughes look good prospects. It falls away after that.
* Moore is 22/23 and has done nothing.
* I like Thusty but he is comming back from a bad injury.
* Limbach is the only player on the list (or there abouts) to not crack a senior game.
* McGuane is crap.
* Graham is a rookie.
Bentleigh
12 Jul 2006, 19:05
I remember something I think John Kennedy said while he was coaching the Hawks,
"At 3/4 time, the smalls get slower, but the talls don't get any smaller!"
I'm not sure what you can take from that, but I think having an abundance of talls is better than an abundance of smalls. :thumbsu:
Ah crap, she found the RFC forum :(
CoggaRules
12 Jul 2006, 19:08
I remember something I think John Kennedy said while he was coaching the Hawks,
"At 3/4 time, the smalls get slower, but the talls don't get any smaller!"
I'm not sure what you can take from that, but I think having an abundance of talls is better than an abundance of smalls. :thumbsu:
yeah, but that was when dinosaurs ruled the earth.
Earth to phildawk, we are in the year 2006, did John suggest to the team at 3/4 time then, ok guys, we need "tempo" football?
Keep dreaming. ;)
tomthetiger
12 Jul 2006, 19:18
You dont need as many KPP as midfielders :)
CoggaRules
12 Jul 2006, 19:21
You dont need as many KPP as midfielders :)
you need a guy that kicks straight at one end, another that stops goals down the other, a big guy in the middle to contest and the rest is made up of fast, small to medium runners, with stamina & skill. ;)
tomthetiger
12 Jul 2006, 19:33
Yup.
philhawk
12 Jul 2006, 20:55
yeah, but that was when dinosaurs ruled the earth.
Earth to phildawk, we are in the year 2006, did John suggest to the team at 3/4 time then, ok guys, we need "tempo" football?
Keep dreaming. ;)
Haha fair point. Wonder what the great man would have thought about "tempo football" :p.
CoggaRules
13 Jul 2006, 11:45
Haha fair point. Wonder what the great man would have thought about "tempo football" :p.
He would have suggested to his team, hit them with "thumpo football". ;)
Richo83
17 Jul 2006, 23:24
Correct.. but have a look at those talls:
Schultz, Pattison and Hughes look good prospects. It falls away after that.
* Moore is 22/23 and has done nothing.
* I like Thusty but he is comming back from a bad injury.
* Limbach is the only player on the list (or there abouts) to not crack a senior game.
* McGuane is crap.
* Graham is a rookie.
Which is what I was saying, but you called me a fool, even though I make the same point as you. :rolleyes:
rfctigerarmy
17 Jul 2006, 23:52
* I like Thusty but he is comming back from a bad injury.
* Limbach is the only player on the list (or there abouts) to not crack a senior game.
* McGuane is crap.
* Graham is a rookie.
* Is a good player. Remember how good he was last year
* Doesnt seem to be a KPP, even though he plays up forward.
* Has played once at AFL Level. You do not ever watch Coburg so to make that assumption makes you an ass.
* So what?
The White Tiger
18 Jul 2006, 06:20
And 2-3 years after that draft everyone was bitching and moaning about how poorly we did. Just goes to show that 5-6 years gives a better indication of how well you've done.
The 5 still on our list have played a combined 390 games for us.Who's responsible for picking Fiora instead of Pavlich in 1999, costly mistake.
Bentleigh
18 Jul 2006, 14:22
* Is a good player. Remember how good he was last year
Was a decent prospect.
Players struggle to come back to 100% when they have serious knee/leg injuries.
* Doesnt seem to be a KPP, even though he plays up forward.
Seems a 3rd forward to me.
* Has played once at AFL Level. You do not ever watch Coburg so to make that assumption makes you an ass.
Should have never been drafted.
Didn't rate him pre-draft.
* So what?
So if he was passed over 120 odd times by AFL clubs then he may not make it, eh?
Who's responsible for picking Fiora instead of Pavlich in 1999, costly mistake.
We wouldn't have Deledio & Tambling if we drafted Pavlich.
Alot of what ifs.
Bentleigh
18 Jul 2006, 14:23
Round 15 - update:
2006 AFL Ladder
Pos Team Pts G W L D %
1 Adelaide 52 15 13 2 0 168.88
2 West Coast 48 15 12 3 0 114.18
3 Melbourne 44 15 11 4 0 116.59
4 Western Bulldogs 40 15 10 5 0 114.34
5 St Kilda 36 15 9 6 0 115.93
6 Collingwood 36 15 9 6 0 114.31
7 Sydney 32 15 8 7 0 116.11
8 Fremantle 32 15 8 7 0 91.32
9 Richmond 32 15 8 7 0 86.49
10 Geelong 28 15 7 8 0 103.65
11 Brisbane 24 15 6 9 0 93.12
12 Port Adelaide 24 15 6 9 0 90.95
13 Kangaroos 20 15 5 10 0 84.89
14 Hawthorn 20 15 5 10 0 79.02
15 Carlton 8 15 2 13 0 74.20
16 Essendon 4 15 1 14 0 76.02
ATM: Pick 8
Should have never been drafted.
Didn't rate him pre-draft.
I think you're being far too harsh on McGuane. Remember that he missed the bulk of his first year with a badly broken arm. This year he has moved into defence and really come on as a player and has some big scalps to his name. Still not ready for AFL yet, but has shown a lot of improvement and if he keeps going should be a handy player.
Bentleigh
18 Jul 2006, 16:00
Battling for Bryce? Or someone else?
Emma Quayle
The Age
July 18, 2006
Bryce Gibbs will not be in Melbourne on Saturday to check out his potential AFL home, as Essendon takes on Carlton in the match named unofficially in his honour.
While an estimated 40,000 people head to the MCG to see if their struggling club can finally score a win, the South Australian teenager whose name is being linked to the match will be in a yellow-and-black guernsey playing for SANFL club Glenelg.
The irony is that Gibbs, a polished midfielder, is no certainty to be nabbed with the No. 1 draft pick by whoever loses on Saturday and therefore becomes favourite for the wooden spoon. In hindsight, the match might become known as the Scott Gumbleton Trophy, the Lachlan Hansen Plate, the James Sellar Gift or the Joel Selwood Ribbon.
Certainly, the one-win Bombers have tired of suggestions they're up for some short-term pain if it means they get their hands on the best kid in the country. "Players' careers are on the line and our senior players are very proud," wrote James Hird on Essendon's website. "If people think any of them are worrying about the No. 1 draft pick when they cross the white line, they don't know what they are talking about."
While 60,000-plus crowds are the norm when Essendon and Carlton sit high on the ladder, the Melbourne Cricket Club is less optimistic about Saturday. Events manager Trevor Dohnt expected about 40,000 on a forecast fine day depending on how many Bomber members turned up. "It's hard to call. We're estimating about 40,000 people will be there, which is a middle-of-the-road sort of crowd," he said. "If we get more than 40, with the two bottom teams playing, that would be a good result."
The loser will get first call on Gibbs or powerful ball magnet Selwood, whose knee injury forced him to miss the national under-18 championships, but who has made big impressions. Or Gumbleton, Hansen or Sellar, should the bottom club decide big, brave, ready-to-go marking players are too hard to pass up.
There may be others; Collingwood's No. 2 pick Dale Thomas surged up the rankings after last year's TAC Cup grand final and draft camp.
The AFL's national talent manager, Kevin Sheehan, thought Gibbs embraced his high rating at the national carnival, where he was named in the All-Australian team with West Australian Gumbleton and Victorian Hansen.
But he thought Selwood who captained Australia's under-17 team two years ago and was its best player still would be high on recruiters' lists.
"He's the one who should come into this debate, no doubt," he said. "Don't underestimate the midfield playmaker. That's what he is, and there's very little between them in their potential to be outstanding players at AFL level.
"Bryce was terrific at the carnival. All of the features were there he reads it well, shows courage, works off players who are playing tight on him. He just makes great decisions with the footy, and then you've got tall blokes. They're brave, they show exceptional courage in the air, they're athletic and they compete when things aren't going well.
"People say you take the best player, but they're all very good players. There's plenty for clubs to debate."
....
Bentleigh
18 Jul 2006, 16:01
Round 15 - update:
ATM: Pick 8
Gibbs
Gumby
Hansen
Thorp
---
Sellar
Unless we lose a few we are going to miss out on one of the big 4/5.
Bentleigh
18 Jul 2006, 16:22
I want Joel Selwood (assuming no Gibbs/Hansen/Humby/Thorp).
Deledio/Selwood/Tambling - next 15 years = :)
1st pick - centre square midfielder with kicking skills, no tambling/jon types
its fair to say our midfield sucks, we need a mid who can win his own footy and kick, after that id like to get 2 KPP
Bentleigh
18 Jul 2006, 18:03
1st pick - centre square midfielder with kicking skills, no tambling/jon types
its fair to say our midfield sucks, we need a mid who can win his own footy and kick, after that id like to get 2 KPP
Joel Selwood, come on down.
tomthetiger
18 Jul 2006, 18:07
Bentleigh, **** off now.
Coughlan
18 Jul 2006, 18:29
Bentleigh, you have stated previouisly that you dont watch U/18's games, yet you talk like you are a talent scout, if you dont watch the games dont ride pages of crap nobody will even read, gop out watch them then come back and you may be taken seriously like weaver is. Also as a richmond supporter you should be hoping that we win and enjoying when we win, not go of crap that means we will go down the order in the draft yayaya, if you want to think that **** off and barrack for a new team and stop the constant whinging, i swear you must be a ****ing piece of crap scummy emo
Crumden
18 Jul 2006, 20:41
Who's responsible for picking Fiora instead of Pavlich in 1999, costly mistake.Certainly was. Shows the folly of trying to pick for needs rather than best available. At the time we had plenty of talls but were crying out for midfielders. Unfortunately most of the talls didn't work out (and the recruiting staff didn't consider the possibility of someone Pavlich's size being a handy midfielder). Pre-draft, Fiora was also rated and there was also a lot of talk about Pavlich being back in Adelaide in 12 months, which also turned out to be a crock. Overall our recruiters misread all these signs and made the wrong choice.
And I wasn't particulalry trying to defend Beck. He had some particularly poor results some years. But I think he also did better at times than people suggest and rumour has it that he was overuled by coaching staff from time to time.
I was one of the many at the time who thought Pavlich should have been taken ahead of Fiora.
However I thought Pavlich was a CHF and didn't see him as a midfielder.
When we decided we wanted a midfielder the choice was a tough one. Our challenge was to get the best guy Joel Corey, Cayden Beetham, Aaron Fiora, David Spriggs and Brad Green were the clear stand-outs.
Fiora isn't the worst choice from that group.
Plenty of the 'failure' that is Fiora needs to be attributed to Fiora. We are too quick to blame Beck or Frawley. Fiora has AFL-talent, just a pea heart.
I think the needs v best available debate needs an extra factor. I think you have to ask - what is your need?
If your need is a back-pocket, winger, HFF etc then never ever recruit for it. It is a different beast when your need is the centre-square or spine.
Should have never been drafted.
Didn't rate him pre-draft.
That's cause you hadn't read anyone else's opinion to take as your own
Interesting on white line fever last night that TW strongly hinted that we would be taking a KPP as our first pick in this year's draft. That's how I read it anyway. Anyone else see that and get the same feeling?
True Thylacine
20 Jul 2006, 12:06
Interesting on white line fever last night that TW strongly hinted that we would be taking a KPP as our first pick in this year's draft. That's how I read it anyway. Anyone else see that and get the same feeling?
My take was that he said he would take the best player available regardless of position but that also a lot of clubs were looking for a key defender.
Jimmyjess
20 Jul 2006, 12:31
Interesting on white line fever last night that TW strongly hinted that we would be taking a KPP as our first pick in this year's draft. That's how I read it anyway. Anyone else see that and get the same feeling?
He was talking about what he believed Carlton would be looking for with their first pick. He felt that Carlton would take a KP Backman therfore allowing Whitnall to go forward with Fevola.
OK, it's now painfully obvious that I should not have poured myself that 6th Bundy & Coke. F*#^s with your mind that stuff.
Bentleigh
20 Jul 2006, 21:04
That's cause you hadn't read anyone else's opinion to take as your own
I read footy draft, they didn't rate him.
You just admitted that you only know how to repeat others opinions
Footydraft.com comment: Personally I definitely think he is worth a punt late in the draft, although the Lions may end up taking him on their rookie list. Plenty of work to do, but plenty to like.
Weaver had him in his Top 50 too
No reply Bentleigh?
Why doesn't that surprise me?
Bentleigh
10 Aug 2006, 02:38
No reply Bentleigh?
Why doesn't that surprise me?
I don't think I was on the computer at the time mate.
Bentleigh
10 Aug 2006, 02:43
As it stand now we have pick #7.
Both Brisbane & North are a game behind with better percentage. However, with some winnable games comming up at this stage it looks like we will have pick 7, but things can change in the last 4 rounds.
I have concluded I want @ Punt Road (in the following order)
1. Gumbleton
2. Hansen
3. Thorp
4. Gibbs
5. Sellwod
6. Sellar
Although, I have this terribile feeling will get pick #7 and miss out on the lot. (Abit like last year were we just missed one of Rydey/Dowler/Kennedy).
Alot of promising players left:
Albert Proud
Leroy Jetta
Tom Hislop
David Armitage
Matthew Leuenberger
Clayton Collard
Ben Reid
Jack Riewoldt
Brock O'Brien
Tom Hurley
etc.
But going by all accounts Im very keen on one of those six.
Our 2nd draft pick should be very intersting also. There seems like there could still be a very promising player come about pic mid 20.
C4[2]Yo`DooR
10 Aug 2006, 09:10
As it stand now we have pick #7.
Although, I have this terribile feeling will get pick #7 and miss out on the lot. (Abit like last year were we just missed one of Rydey/Dowler/Kennedy).
You're right.
Pick #7 this year will probably see you miss out on the major KPP and 2 midfielders (Gibbs & Selwood).
Essendon - Gumbleton
Carlton - Gibbs
Hawthorn - Hansen
Port Adelaide - Thorpe
Brisbane - Sellar
North - Selwood
Richmond - ? (i'd say Jack Riewoldt)
True Thylacine
10 Aug 2006, 09:45
Yo`DooR']You're right.
Pick #7 this year will probably see you miss out on the major KPP and 2 midfielders (Gibbs & Selwood).
Essendon - Gumbleton
Carlton - Gibbs
Hawthorn - Hansen
Port Adelaide - Thorpe
Brisbane - Sellar
North - Selwood
Richmond - ? (i'd say Jack Riewoldt)
We could do worse. 24 possies, 15 marks and 4 goals in VFL at the weekend. He also seems to have his head together...emphasis on seems as I have only chatted to him once but a good mate of my son which isnt the best recommendation lmao. With his Dad and now cousin being Sainters its where his heart will be I'm sure. If we can get through that I am sure we would have a good'un and according to local media reports, the scouts from 11 different AFL clubs at the game last Sat agree with me.
Bentleigh
10 Aug 2006, 22:09
Don't want Riewoldt with our first round pick. :thumbsd:
i reckon we might get a thorp or sellar
would love to get selwood though
Bentleigh
12 Aug 2006, 03:33
i reckon we might get a thorp or sellar
would love to get selwood though
:thumbsu:
I reckon it will be none-of-the-above. Have to remember that the 'consenus' is actually the opinion of half a dozen people who watch the games magnifing by 100 Bentleighs repeating what they have read as their own opinion.
Someone like Daniel O'Keefe could jump up the order. We could easily decide that we will go for a raw 4-year project player like James Hawksley or Ben Reid.
Supertiger
12 Aug 2006, 11:51
I actually rate Hawkesly, I hadnt seen his name mentioned in these forums often before, I think he can play and I am hoping we could get him in the 3rd round.
As for how the draft picks work out, if we lose today against brissy I expect we wouldnt beat Carlton or Essendon who seem to have found some form late in the season, and WCE on form will beat us at the G. If we go down in all games we could finish with pick 4 or 5 depending on other results.
RFC is going to do some big trades this year and offload 3 players who supporters probably wouldnt want to see go but they will be put up to try and ratchet out an early pick from either North or Port in my opinion.
Dyer_ear
12 Aug 2006, 12:12
So who would we dangle?
Richo Johnson Pettifer Krakeur Tivendale Rodan
Crumden
12 Aug 2006, 14:25
I reckon it will be none-of-the-above. Have to remember that the 'consenus' is actually the opinion of half a dozen people who watch the games magnifing by 100 Bentleighs repeating what they have read as their own opinion.
Someone like Daniel O'Keefe could jump up the order. We could easily decide that we will go for a raw 4-year project player like James Hawksley or Ben Reid.
***shudder***
Sounds worse than a plague of Rolf Harrises. :eek:
Bentleigh
15 Aug 2006, 15:56
As it stand now we have pick #7.
Both Brisbane & North are a game behind with better percentage. However, with some winnable games comming up at this stage it looks like we will have pick 7, but things can change in the last 4 rounds.
I have concluded I want @ Punt Road (in the following order)
1. Gumbleton
2. Hansen
3. Thorp
4. Gibbs
5. Sellwod
6. Sellar
Although, I have this terribile feeling will get pick #7 and miss out on the lot. (Abit like last year were we just missed one of Rydey/Dowler/Kennedy).
Alot of promising players left:
Albert Proud
Leroy Jetta
Tom Hislop
David Armitage
Matthew Leuenberger
Clayton Collard
Ben Reid
Jack Riewoldt
Brock O'Brien
Tom Hurley
etc.
But going by all accounts Im very keen on one of those six.
Our 2nd draft pick should be very intersting also. There seems like there could still be a very promising player come about pic mid 20.
Say we miss out on those 6 - who do you want us to get? Hislop he goes alright. " Very similar type to Joel Selwood. Not quite as good"
14) Thomas Hislop
Midfielder
Burnie Dockers (Tasmania)
185cms and 84kgs
7/6/1988
Had a shoulder reconstruction in late May after the trip to Ireland for the U17s AIS-AFL International Rules and sat out the whole year after that
Very good clean hands under pressure. Superb reader of the player and very hard at the ball. Loves the contest and will continually put his head over the ball. Good vision and is smart with his use of the ball. Class inside player with the body and brain to dominate. Very physically developed player but it was not just that he was using to win the ball. Was genuinely smart with his movement and positioning.
Was a combination of strength and class that made him stand out.
Not that quick over the ground but definitely not slow. Reasonable agility but would not call him twinkle toes. Is tough, fearless and very hard at the ball and man. A natural midfielder who hunts the ball and is rarely caught out. Good anticipation and awareness. Very similar type to Joel Selwood. Not quite as good and more developed physically. Perhaps not exactly the midfielder we need but he is a class player and prospect. Very strong in the lower half of his body and very strong in the hips to break a tackle. Good tackler himself.
A small query on his body type for the future with being nuggety and developed at such a young age. So will have to watch how he looks this year after the shoulder operation and how he goes against grown men for the Devils to give an indication of whether how much of his game is sheer early physical development and how much is actual ability (like Shannon Hurn from last years draft).
He wont be able to run over the top of those stronger bodies and will be good to see how he handles that.
I dont think his game is based too much around that and he is smart enough to be able to change his game according to different circumstances.
A clean, hard, physically tough inside player who does the basics well and is a natural footballer. Good skills with hand and foot and a very good size and another few cms of height would be very welcome. As it stands 185cms as a 16 year old is pretty impressive for a midfield prospect
Hislop is relocating from Burnie to play with the Tassie Mariners and should get a few games with the Tassie Devils in the VFL competition. Hard to judge him but going on tapes from the U16s back in 2004 he looked super impressive.
Not much of a super draft if it's only 6 deep.
Bentleigh
15 Aug 2006, 16:26
Not much of a super draft if it's only 6 deep.
2001 was 3 deep. (Judd, Hodge, Ball)
2004 had 5. (Lids, Bling, Franklin, Roughead, Griffen)
How many were you expecting?
With all the talk of a super draft, alot more than 6.
Punt_Road_Roar
15 Aug 2006, 16:42
With all the talk of a super draft, alot more than 6.
I agree, talk of a super draft would have to be atleast 10 people of exceptional quality.
I would call 6 players as being a solid draft.
3 players being a weak draft
Supertiger
15 Aug 2006, 16:47
Theres 4 top clear cut, then 3 to 4 very very good players who would of been in the top 5 of last year, the next group runs 15 to 20 deep and that group is very good again. And there will be players who clubs will get in the late 40s into the 50s who in time will be good players. Its a good draft.
Punt_Road_Roar
15 Aug 2006, 17:00
Theres 4 top clear cut, then 3 to 4 very very good players who would of been in the top 5 of last year, the next group runs 15 to 20 deep and that group is very good again. And there will be players who clubs will get in the late 40s into the 50s who in time will be good players. Its a good draft.
so in this 15 to 20 deep would there be the likes of a Dal Santo, Sam Mitchell, Ash Hansen, Matt McGuire etc all from the 2001 draft?
If so then why the concern about missing out on this top 6?
so in this 15 to 20 deep would there be the likes of a Dal Santo, Sam Mitchell, Ash Hansen, Matt McGuire etc all from the 2001 draft?
If so then why the concern about missing out on this top 6?
I think the difference lies in that the top six are widely considered to be certainties to turn out to be gun players (almost-certainties is a better term to use). The rest are widely considered to be more of a risk (but not a huge risk when taken into context).
Bentleigh
15 Aug 2006, 18:15
I agree, talk of a super draft would have to be atleast 10 people of exceptional quality.
I would call 6 players as being a solid draft.
3 players being a weak draft
Odd logic.
Bentleigh
15 Aug 2006, 18:23
so in this 15 to 20 deep would there be the likes of a Dal Santo, Sam Mitchell, Ash Hansen, Matt McGuire etc all from the 2001 draft?
If so then why the concern about missing out on this top 6?
Your not serious are you?
Top 6 almost confirms you a gem.
Yes, you can pick up a good player onwards (Mitchell, Hansen etc.), but to give your wonderful 2001 example there is also a very real chance of missing:
Clarke (5)
Sampi (6)
Luke Molan (9)
Sam Power (10)
Richard Cole (11)
Ashley Watson (14)
Barry Brooks (15)
Rick Ladson (16)
Shane Harvey (18)
Jason Gram (19)
Daniel Elstone (20)
And thats just the top 20..
Who's to say that the coveted Super 6 will make the grade?
Bentleigh
15 Aug 2006, 18:34
Who's to say that the coveted Super 6 will make the grade?
I don't think anybody is saying they will.
I think most agree there is a very strong chance of it.
Abit like saying there is a very strong chance of -
2005: Marc Murphy, Dale Thomas, Xavier Ellis, Josh Kennedy, Scott Pendlebury, Beau Dowler
2004: Brett Deledio. Jarryd Roughead, Ryan Griffen, Richard Tambling, Lance Franklin
2003: Adam Cooney, Andrew Walker, Colin Sylvia, Farren Ray, Brock McLean
Will turn out solid.
If you disagree with the widly accepted view that players in modern football do not have a strong chance of being class.. then its not worth debating.
Punt_Road_Roar
15 Aug 2006, 18:37
I don't think anybody is saying they will.
I think most agree there is a very strong chance of it.
Abit like saying there is a very strong chance of -
2005: Marc Murphy, Dale Thomas, Xavier Ellis, Josh Kennedy, Scott Pendlebury, Beau Dowler
2004: Brett Deledio. Jarryd Roughead, Ryan Griffen, Richard Tambling, Lance Franklin
2003: Adam Cooney, Andrew Walker, Colin Sylvia, Farren Ray, Brock McLean
Will turn out solid.
If you disagree the widly accepted stand out player in modern football do not have a strong chance of being class.. then its not worth debating.
Does anyone know what all the experts picked as their top 5 from the 2005, 2004, 2003 draft? I'd be very suprised if they got all those names exactly right.
What?
Edit your post so that it makes sense.
Bentleigh
15 Aug 2006, 18:48
Does anyone know what all the experts picked as their top 5 from the 2005, 2004, 2003 draft? I'd be very suprised if they got all those names exactly right.
Mate - Bigfootys draft board got the top 5 right in 2004 and again 2005 (outside Pendlebury).
So it's in our best interests to look beyond the super 6 because we won't be in position to get any of them.
Who falls into the 7-8 pick that may be of some value?
I believe Thorp will fall below 6 and makes a likely target. I am also quite partial to Eric McKenzie as a defender.
Your thoughts please.
Bentleigh
15 Aug 2006, 19:22
So it's in our best interests to look beyond the super 6 because we won't be in position to get any of them.
Perhaps one will fall though the cracks to pick 7 or 8?
Who falls into the 7-8 pick that may be of some value?
No doubt - but its a matter of picking the right one.
For our sake we need to pick the Tom Hislop, Ben Reid, Tom Hurley that will end up the next Nick Dal Santo, Sam Mitchell, James Bartel, not the next Luke Molan, Ashley Watson, Aaron Rogers.
This is why it pains me that we are going to miss out on a top 6 pick. We go from having a strong chance of getting a class player, to a hit and miss chance.
I believe Thorp will fall below 6 and makes a likely target.
How good would that be?
:) :thumbsu:
Saw him on Telly for Tassie - gun.
I am also quite partial to Eric McKenzie as a defender.
Your thoughts please.
Very intersting idea. Sounds good to me. :thumbsu:
13) Eric Mackenzie
Key Position Player
193cms and 88kgs
19/5/88
Claremont (WA)
Physically powerful and strong key position player. Played mainly down back and it is as a defender where I have been most impressed with him. Plays really tight and reads the play and anticipates well. Legitimate big defender who has strength and discipline. Good skills and is quite attacking on the rebound but it is his bodywork which catches the eye for me. Rarely beaten and does it with power and positioning.
When played up forward is capable of taking a good strong contested mark but does not seem to have the same good natural instincts as when he plays as a defender. Played some ruck when he was even younger and has been basically the same height for a number of years. So unlikely to grow a lot more but at 193cms is tall enough to play a key position player.
Seems to have good endurance and his pace was fine. Suited to playing down the corridor on power players. Tough and physically ready and seems to love body contact. Athletic and versatile.
Just missed the last draft and will be top aged this time and ready for action in his first year on an AFL list. Not quite as much scope for improvement as some of the other talls available but he is a pretty solid key position prospect who is not a really a risk for a team who needs a tall defender.
I think he could play either end as he develops but do think he is best suited down back at this stage.
^
Wouldn't mind one of those at CHB, by the sounds of it as early as next year.
just don't trade cleve the steamer whatever you do miller, can the job done or get another job miller.
So who gets who and who are we left with.
1 Carlton Go big? Gumbleton
2 Essendon Loves razzle dazzle. Collard or Proud.
3 Hawthorn Mid fielder Gibbs
4 Kangaroos Need lots Selwood
5 Brisbane Lions Need Rucks Sellar
6 Port Adelaide Stable Forwards Tippet
7 Richmond Choice of Hansen or Thorp
8 Geelong
Banking on Essendon to do the unexpected and choose between Collard Proud and Jetta.
Bentleigh
15 Aug 2006, 19:52
...
So who gets who and who are we left with.
1 Carlton Go big? Gumbleton
2 Essendon Loves razzle dazzle. Collard or Proud.
3 Hawthorn Mid fielder Gibbs
4 Kangaroos Need lots Selwood
5 Brisbane Lions Need Rucks Sellar
6 Port Adelaide Stable Forwards Tippet
7 Richmond Choice of Hansen or Thorp
8 Geelong
Banking on Essendon to do the unexpected and choose between Collard Proud and Jetta.
:D
pettifers.sexy
15 Aug 2006, 20:34
just thought I would add in that I no Hansen :)
Coughlan
15 Aug 2006, 20:55
Your not serious are you?
Top 6 almost confirms you a gem.
Yes, you can pick up a good player onwards (Mitchell, Hansen etc.), but to give your wonderful 2001 example there is also a very real chance of missing:
Clarke (5)
Sampi (6)
Luke Molan (9)
Sam Power (10)
Richard Cole (11)
Ashley Watson (14)
Barry Brooks (15)
Rick Ladson (16)
Shane Harvey (18)
Jason Gram (19)
Daniel Elstone (20)
And thats just the top 20..
now i know you think of yourself as a bit of a football guru, but having Jason Gram on a list of players who have been failures is wrong, he is anything but, have you even watched St Kilda play this year, his a very good player
Bentleigh
15 Aug 2006, 21:28
now i know you think of yourself as a bit of a football guru, but having Jason Gram on a list of players who have been failures is wrong, he is anything but, have you even watched St Kilda play this year, his a very good player
Lions let him go.
He's been handy, but I wouldn't go as far as 'very good'.
Decent at best.
tomthetiger
15 Aug 2006, 21:31
just thought I would add in that I no Hansen :)
Suuuure you do.
pettifers.sexy
15 Aug 2006, 21:38
Suuuure you do.
I don't no him no him, but some of my friends do.
TrewTIGER
17 Aug 2006, 19:52
So who gets who and who are we left with.
1 Carlton Go big? Gumbleton
2 Essendon Loves razzle dazzle. Collard or Proud.
3 Hawthorn Mid fielder Gibbs
4 Kangaroos Need lots Selwood
5 Brisbane Lions Need Rucks Sellar
6 Port Adelaide Stable Forwards Tippet
7 Richmond Choice of Hansen or Thorp
8 Geelong
Banking on Essendon to do the unexpected and choose between Collard Proud and Jetta.
How do you figure? Have Charman, McDonald, Clark, Merret & Bradshaw and thats if they let go Keating and possibly Wood. Also have mobile talls such as Brennan.
tigerdan
17 Aug 2006, 20:09
I don't no him no him, but some of my friends do.
Looks like the letters K and W have been removed from the english alphabet!
pettifers.sexy
17 Aug 2006, 21:57
Looks like the letters K and W have been removed from the english alphabet!
HAHA (being sarcastic)
I am only young, leave me alone :p
Everyone picks on my spelling!!
bombers6
27 Aug 2006, 00:02
now i know you think of yourself as a bit of a football guru, but having Jason Gram on a list of players who have been failures is wrong, he is anything but, have you even watched St Kilda play this year, his a very good player
Cole will be fine, finally at his home, go well next year. Sampi, what is wrong with him? Shane Harvey, yeh no good in the big league. Funny that north could of elevated davey but opted to get harvey. Is that correct? Very smart men down there.
Calcium Man
27 Aug 2006, 00:28
So who gets who and who are we left with.
1 Carlton Go big? Gumbleton
2 Essendon Loves razzle dazzle. Collard or Proud.
3 Hawthorn Mid fielder Gibbs
4 Kangaroos Need lots Selwood
5 Brisbane Lions Need Rucks Sellar
6 Port Adelaide Stable Forwards Tippet
7 Richmond Choice of Hansen or Thorp
8 Geelong
Banking on Essendon to do the unexpected and choose between Collard Proud and Jetta.
If that happens take hansen in a heart beat, but unfortuntly Collingwood dont have the No. 2 draft pick this year. Sheedy might do something unusual but i doubt it.
Besides it looks like we have the 8th pick now so i think we may end up with little choice.
How do you figure? Have Charman, McDonald, Clark, Merret & Bradshaw and thats if they let go Keating and possibly Wood. Also have mobile talls such as Brennan.
Merret, Bradshaw and Clark aren't ruckmen. Charman, McDonald and Keating can barely get on the field these days. They won't / can't let go of Wood as some on here suggest. They need him down the track.
Lions this year will be too tempted by Proud, Pettard, Armitage and Urquhart to not take one of them. Getting a blue-chip QLDer will be irresistable with Voss and Akermanis gone or going.
Jamdonut5
27 Aug 2006, 22:40
Originally Posted by Tyger
So who gets who and who are we left with.
1 Carlton Go big? Gumbleton
2 Essendon Loves razzle dazzle. Collard or Proud.
3 Hawthorn Mid fielder Gibbs
4 Kangaroos Need lots Selwood
5 Brisbane Lions Need Rucks Sellar
6 Port Adelaide Stable Forwards Tippet
7 Richmond Choice of Hansen or Thorp
8 Geelong
Banking on Essendon to do the unexpected and choose between Collard Proud and Jetta.
Would be surprised if Gibbs doesn't go 1 or 2
Richo83
27 Aug 2006, 23:05
Bentleight literally has no clue. This is the man who is suggesting we pick Tom Hislop, Ben Reid and Tom Hurley, while dissmisses my suggestion that we pick Riewoldt. While Hilsop, hurley and Ried are having okay seasons, Jack is in great form in the VFL.
We would do well to pick up a KPP. If not gumby, hansen, thorp or sellar, we should go for Riewoldt, who is the 5th best KPP. Since we will get pick 7,8 we will miss out on the top 4 KPP, so if Miller is a smart man, Riewoldt will be a tiger in 2007.
BTW, not another midfielder. We have enough of them and can easily pick up a Boak, Petterd with our second pick. I realise this is a midfielder's game, but we need players to put at each ends. Riewoldt at 193cm and 84 kilos (and growing) would suit one of our KP areas well. Well, certinally better than a rover would.
Supertiger
28 Aug 2006, 10:57
I would rather a midfielder like Benjamin or Morton rather than Riewoldt. I wouldnt take Riewoldt in the first 10. He is a 15 to 20 selection for mine.
Wouldn't be keen on Morton or Benjamin in the top-40 picks. But both are the type that we will be interested in. Both are soft, lazy and lightly built. They fall into that area of not being genuine KP players but not nearly talented enough to be onballers. The athletic utility types that we go for, but we are pretty well covered for.
tigers1au
29 Aug 2006, 16:45
Hey Weaver, I've noticed that you've mentioned Daniel O'Keefe's name a few times on the boards, but I can't find any info on him. Could you give us a quick summary of what kind of player he is.
Cheers
Hey Weaver, I've noticed that you've mentioned Daniel O'Keefe's name a few times on the boards, but I can't find any info on him. Could you give us a quick summary of what kind of player he is.
Has been compared to Nathan Brown by his coach which is a huge burden to carry.
He is a mid-sized (184cm) wingman / forward with pace and flair and a love of kicking goals. More than 50 scoring shots this year from the HFF and wing.
One of the few guys in Vic this year who can actually make stuff happen. Very good kick and kicks long. Leads the TAC in marks which is a reflection of the ground he covers, the positions he takes up, and how hard the opposition find to keep up with him.
Played with Vic Country but was a fringe players. He started the season slowly and has been charging home.
Would certainly be the type of prospect that we would look closely at. Will be a key player in the Geelong Falcons finals campaign - and the Falcons have probably the best record of all the junior clubs.
Light, quick, skilled, ball-carrying, prolific possesion getter and kicker of goals from midfield. Ticks a lot of boxes for a Richmond-future player.
I imagine come draft time he will be compared to Dale Thomas - although he probably isn't quite as clever and maybe doesn't have the vision that Thomas has.
(Not advocating we go for him - just that at pick 7/8 don't be suprised if we zig instead of zag - and he'd be in the mix if we do).
Coughlan
29 Aug 2006, 18:14
reckon there is much chance of Selwood getting to us next year and is he the goods?
Has been compared to Nathan Brown by his coach which is a huge burden to carry.
He is a mid-sized (184cm) wingman / forward with pace and flair and a love of kicking goals. More than 50 scoring shots this year from the HFF and wing.
One of the few guys in Vic this year who can actually make stuff happen. Very good kick and kicks long. Leads the TAC in marks which is a reflection of the ground he covers, the positions he takes up, and how hard the opposition find to keep up with him.
Played with Vic Country but was a fringe players. He started the season slowly and has been charging home.
Would certainly be the type of prospect that we would look closely at. Will be a key player in the Geelong Falcons finals campaign - and the Falcons have probably the best record of all the junior clubs.
Light, quick, skilled, ball-carrying, prolific possesion getter and kicker of goals from midfield. Ticks a lot of boxes for a Richmond-future player.
I imagine come draft time he will be compared to Dale Thomas - although he probably isn't quite as clever and maybe doesn't have the vision that Thomas has.
(Not advocating we go for him - just that at pick 7/8 don't be suprised if we zig instead of zag - and he'd be in the mix if we do).
Aaron Fiora anybody? Last thing we need is another pussy outside midfielder. For me its a key position defender, a inside midfielder or a CHF. Selwood sounds like a tough player....
tomthetiger
29 Aug 2006, 18:50
Has been compared to Nathan Brown by his coach which is a huge burden to carry.
He is a mid-sized (184cm) wingman / forward with pace and flair and a love of kicking goals. More than 50 scoring shots this year from the HFF and wing.
One of the few guys in Vic this year who can actually make stuff happen. Very good kick and kicks long. Leads the TAC in marks which is a reflection of the ground he covers, the positions he takes up, and how hard the opposition find to keep up with him.
Played with Vic Country but was a fringe players. He started the season slowly and has been charging home.
Would certainly be the type of prospect that we would look closely at. Will be a key player in the Geelong Falcons finals campaign - and the Falcons have probably the best record of all the junior clubs.
Light, quick, skilled, ball-carrying, prolific possesion getter and kicker of goals from midfield. Ticks a lot of boxes for a Richmond-future player.
I imagine come draft time he will be compared to Dale Thomas - although he probably isn't quite as clever and maybe doesn't have the vision that Thomas has.
(Not advocating we go for him - just that at pick 7/8 don't be suprised if we zig instead of zag - and he'd be in the mix if we do).
Aren't we more likely to take the risk and wait until our second or third round picks though ?
Have to remember that the 'consenus' is actually the opinion of half a dozen people who watch the games magnifing by 100 Bentleighs repeating what they have read as their own opinion.
:D :thumbsu: :p and that 'bentleighs' gag ;)
just thought I would add in that I no Hansen :)
well i yes him, so there...:p
pettifers.sexy
29 Aug 2006, 22:35
well i yes him, so there...:p
You what him?
tomthetiger
29 Aug 2006, 23:06
Huh? You mustve got that :rolleyes:
pantsdown
29 Aug 2006, 23:13
We will be picking the best available with our first pick whether that be a tall or a mid, from horses mouth, just clearing the decks come trade time i reckon, maybe a few specials coming our way lets hope Greg is on the ball.
Aaron Fiora anybody? Last thing we need is another pussy outside midfielder. For me its a key position defender, a inside midfielder or a CHF. Selwood sounds like a tough player....
There is the debate about what we SHOULD do and the debate about what we WILL do.
You'd be mad to recruit a key defender. Most of them are junior forwards because that is where the good players play. Specialist junior fullbacks are generally available in the rookie draft.
We might like an inside midfielder but our club is unlikley to draft too many particularly early.
Like it or not most of our draft picks from now on are going to be guys who record top-10 results in the sprint tests at draft camp. We are going to be the quickest team in the comp. That is the plan.
In the same way the Dogs targetted soft, stick-men who could run and kick (Gilbee, Gio, Murphy etc) those are going to be our early picks.
Don't be suprised if we overlook Selwood because he is not quick enough. Selwood is a very good player but a little over-hyped.
pantsdown
30 Aug 2006, 21:08
There is the debate about what we SHOULD do and the debate about what we WILL do.
You'd be mad to recruit a key defender. Most of them are junior forwards because that is where the good players play. Specialist junior fullbacks are generally available in the rookie draft.
We might like an inside midfielder but our club is unlikley to draft too many particularly early.
Like it or not most of our draft picks from now on are going to be guys who record top-10 results in the sprint tests at draft camp. We are going to be the quickest team in the comp. That is the plan.
In the same way the Dogs targetted soft, stick-men who could run and kick (Gilbee, Gio, Murphy etc) those are going to be our early picks.
Don't be suprised if we overlook Selwood because he is not quick enough. Selwood is a very good player but a little over-hyped.
Spot on.