View Full Version : How did our club win a Premiership???
Tredders66
14 May 2006, 15:09
I have never in all my years supporting this supposively proud club seen more of a pathetic performance then i have today. We are now certainly botom 4 material and it's now officially the start of our rebuilding stage. Remember this is a club that won a premiership 40 odd games ago. What the hell is going on? Somthing internally i'm sure. Choco mate it's time to go. I'm not putting up with more of this :D:D:D:D.
crazy_big_al
14 May 2006, 15:10
it is embarrasing.
RoosterLad
14 May 2006, 15:14
It happens to most teams. Brisbane were up for a long time and won 3 flags now they are struggling as well even though they won last night.
I guess you will all jump ship now which is why nobodys at the game
crazy_big_al
14 May 2006, 15:17
It happens to most teams. Brisbane were up for a long time and won 3 flags now they are struggling as well even though they won last night.
I guess you will all jump ship now which is why nobodys at the game
it is not that mate. I love my club. It is mothers days am i have chosen to spend the day with my mother. I will be at our next game and plan to go interstate to watch my team. But at the moment our play is not good and I see it as embarrasing.
Tredders66
14 May 2006, 15:18
It happens to most teams. Brisbane were up for a long time and won 3 flags now they are struggling as well even though they won last night.
I guess you will all jump ship now which is why nobodys at the game
Why would i jump ship? :D:D:D:Doff troll. We get crowds like this week in week out, they arnt helping our side at the moment.
Total Power
14 May 2006, 15:31
It happens to most teams. Brisbane were up for a long time and won 3 flags now they are struggling as well even though they won last night.
I guess you will all jump ship now which is why nobodys at the game
While posting on a team board, you must show respect to the team and the supporter.Most crow fans get banned and then have a whinge about how pathetic our mods are.
Power21
14 May 2006, 15:47
I have never in all my years supporting this supposively proud club seen more of a pathetic performance then i have today. We are now certainly botom 4 material and it's now officially the start of our rebuilding stage. Remember this is a club that won a premiership 40 odd games ago. What the hell is going on? Somthing internally i'm sure. Choco mate it's time to go. I'm not putting up with more of this :D:D:D:D.
Anybody who thinks our performances this season are Choco's fault are kidding themselves. It's the easy way out and the soft option to boot the coach after the season we will presumably have but if we do i will be appauled.
Choco doesn't tell them to play with no heart or pride, and no way does he condone the chip crap out of the back lines, why would he? why would he change his game plan? he wouldn't but some 'supporters' don't seem to understand that, and it is dissapointing.
Eddie Woloschek
14 May 2006, 16:08
Anybody who thinks our performances this season are Choco's fault are kidding themselves. It's the easy way out and the soft option to boot the coach after the season we will presumably have but if we do i will be appauled.
Choco doesn't tell them to play with no heart or pride, and no way does he condone the chip crap out of the back lines, why would he? why would he change his game plan? he wouldn't but some 'supporters' don't seem to understand that, and it is dissapointing.
Where are you from? Stepford?
Power21
14 May 2006, 16:20
Where are you from? Stepford?
All this talk and putting the blame on choco is just crap, it's the players fault, they are playing like pansies. Lade is the ONLY senior player standing up. Do you honestly think this is all choco's fault?
Don't bring up the crap about recruiting and eveloping, we won a premiership and had 4 years at the top so he developed well, remember he must have developed and recruited well because we had 99 and 00 where we were mediocre.
Seriously, this p***** me off when so called supporters are so quick to call fro the coaches head when nothing points to the performance being his fault. I don't buy any of the crap that gets spewed out on here and neither do a lot of rational supporters.
PJ Power
14 May 2006, 17:03
All right Power21, what do you think should happen after today?
IMO, we are at a cross-roads:
Either Williams cuts the easy talk and shows some real discipline by punishing ALL of our non-performers today,
Or
he leaves.
Can't blame the youth today, now can he?
Ebert, DeLuca, Chaplin all out.
Surjan, Pearce and White probably in our best players.
Pettigrew and Salopek nowhere near as pathetic as many teammates.
Mark must make a stand now, for his future and the future of our once proud club.
He MUST drop at least 5 senior players this week, and replace them with genuine, untried youngsters. We could not be any worse next week.
We have hit rock bottom.
OUT:
MOTLOP, LONIE (disgraceful effort today), TREDREA (if you ain't fit, don't bother; his lack of leadership is staggering atm), BISHOP, CASSISI, DEW, MAHONEY.
IN:
SYMES, LOWER, THOMAS, CHAPLIN, WILLITS, THOMSON, BROGAN (if fit).
OR:
WILLIAMS and his assistant coaches get the chop.
I don't care if we lose every other game this year, but at least if you are going to use the excuse of YOUTH, make sure you play young players.
If we are supposed to be rebuilding, then let's rebuild.
Motlop and Mahoney both deserve at least a month on the sidelines. They were disgraceful. I have never seen such a lack of defensive pressure.
Santos L Helper
14 May 2006, 17:14
All this talk and putting the blame on choco is just crap, it's the players fault, they are playing like pansies. Lade is the ONLY senior player standing up. Do you honestly think this is all choco's fault?
Don't bring up the crap about recruiting and eveloping, we won a premiership and had 4 years at the top so he developed well, remember he must have developed and recruited well because we had 99 and 00 where we were mediocre.
Seriously, this p***** me off when so called supporters are so quick to call fro the coaches head when nothing points to the performance being his fault. I don't buy any of the crap that gets spewed out on here and neither do a lot of rational supporters.
Take your head out your arse! If the palyers have no confidence in the coach, they will play accordingly. If the players think the coach has run out of ideas, they play accordingly. His time is up!
Stop it with this 'blame the players' bull:D:D:D:D. If a company goes broke, you don't sack the rank and file, you go straight to the top. Yes, a few players are done, but so is the coach. Christ, even Adelaide showed some balls when they knew it was time for a change.
Magpiespower
14 May 2006, 17:14
Mahoney...
Reminds me of the bloke in the office/factory/worksite who runs around like a blue @rsed fly looking really busy but does sweet FA.
The senior players really need to take a good, long, hard look at themselves.
They're just not putting in.
Tredders66
14 May 2006, 17:16
Take your head out your arse! If the palyers have no confidence in the coach, they will play accordingly. If the players think the coach has run out of ideas, they play accordingly. His time is up!
Stop it with this 'blame the players' bull:D:D:D:D. If a company goes broke, you don't sack the rank and file, you go straight to the top. Yes, a few players are done, but so is the coach. Christ, even Adelaide showed some balls when they knew it was time for a change.
Glad someone agrees.
*PAFC*13
14 May 2006, 17:20
I didn't think Lonie was too bad today.
Its time to bring in the kids.
Thomas, Symes, Chaplin, Willits.
Dry Rot
14 May 2006, 17:26
For a period you really took it up to us playing good aggressive and productive footy and I thought we were wilting.
And then it just stopped. As you showed vs Saints, you can play good footy.
Very different to Richmond yesterday, who were outclassed all day.
And hats off to Lade - had a great game IMO.
Capital Power
14 May 2006, 17:33
I didn't think Lonie was too bad today.
I agree. A long way from our worst I think. May actually be quite effective in a good team. Like the one we have listed in the program :( .
Macca19
14 May 2006, 17:34
Thats the bad thing about us at the moment Dry, we play 20 minutes of great football and then it turns to poo.
Its not all Chocos fault, a number of players are simply not putting in what they should, but Choco is the one who has to motivate and get these players going again. To this point, he is failing badly at doing that. We have no discipline, a number of players play terrible every week but never get dropped. Its soft.
Time for some hard decisions Mark. Not token decisions at the end of the year, make them now.
Thats the bad thing about us at the moment Dry, we play 20 minutes of great football and then it turns to poo.
Its not all Chocos fault, a number of players are simply not putting in what they should, but Choco is the one who has to motivate and get these players going again. To this point, he is failing badly at doing that. We have no discipline, a number of players play terrible every week but never get dropped. Its soft.
Time for some hard decisions Mark. Not token decisions at the end of the year, make them now.
I haven't seen today's game, but agree 100% with that assessment.
Ford Fairlane
14 May 2006, 17:42
That was one of the worst performances I have ever seen from a Port Adelaide side. How can you stand around and watch a side take you to the cleaners like we did for the first quarter and a half. And that after all the build up about the fierce week on the training track. Apparently that's the only place we're fierce. Choco's match ups failed dismally, the rotations are beyond a joke now. Sure it's tough to blame the coach for performances like that ... but as others have said, when the players don't respond to the message anymore, what do you think will happen? And endorsing Macca's comment, Choco's brought a lot of this s*it on himself by continuing to give second, third, fourth chances to serial non performers. Dew doesn't have to train to be picked and his skills were rubbish, Thurstans doesn't have to play well and he carries that form in with him. So many passengers, and PJ's already named them. Disastrous, disorganised, no commitment, no structure, no idea. I'm really disappointed by what we're getting served up every week.
Let's get rid of some of those cheap as chips yes men assistant coaches, that fitness coach and let's get a genuine football person in to run the club, so it doesn't become a complete Williams family benefit.
Total Power
14 May 2006, 17:42
Motlop, Dew, Bishop and Tredders gotta go.Motlop gotta prove himself in the 2s before he is back.This is getting beyond a joke.
Power21
14 May 2006, 17:46
Take your head out your arse! If the palyers have no confidence in the coach, they will play accordingly. If the players think the coach has run out of ideas, they play accordingly. His time is up!
Stop it with this 'blame the players' bull:D:D:D:D. If a company goes broke, you don't sack the rank and file, you go straight to the top. Yes, a few players are done, but so is the coach. Christ, even Adelaide showed some balls when they knew it was time for a change.
Why, when a team starts losing is it time for a change of coach? So we get a new coach win another flag and then have anpther bad spell, do we give the new coach the flick for a new start to. Thats crap and i don't buy it, it has no logic what so ever.
Give me a few reasons why we get rid of choco? Since when ahve the players lost confidence in him, that has never been said and doesn't really seem to be the case.
Power21
14 May 2006, 17:49
All right Power21, what do you think should happen after today?
IMO, we are at a cross-roads:
Either Williams cuts the easy talk and shows some real discipline by punishing ALL of our non-performers today,
Or
he leaves.
Can't blame the youth today, now can he?
Ebert, DeLuca, Chaplin all out.
Surjan, Pearce and White probably in our best players.
Pettigrew and Salopek nowhere near as pathetic as many teammates.
Mark must make a stand now, for his future and the future of our once proud club.
He MUST drop at least 5 senior players this week, and replace them with genuine, untried youngsters. We could not be any worse next week.
We have hit rock bottom.
OUT:
MOTLOP, LONIE (disgraceful effort today), TREDREA (if you ain't fit, don't bother; his lack of leadership is staggering atm), BISHOP, CASSISI, DEW, MAHONEY.
IN:
SYMES, LOWER, THOMAS, CHAPLIN, WILLITS, THOMSON, BROGAN (if fit).
OR:
WILLIAMS and his assistant coaches get the chop.
I don't care if we lose every other game this year, but at least if you are going to use the excuse of YOUTH, make sure you play young players.
If we are supposed to be rebuilding, then let's rebuild.
Motlop and Mahoney both deserve at least a month on the sidelines. They were disgraceful. I have never seen such a lack of defensive pressure.
I would add Pettigrew to the list of outs, bring in who ever.
I'm not blaming the youth, it has been the seniors playing like a bunch of pansies. I hate it when people blame the coach for playing like that, choco certainly isn't telling them to give up in one on one's and playing a soft brand of footy thats for sure, so why should choco pay with the loss of his job?
Ford Fairlane
14 May 2006, 17:52
If Choco can't organise a side and get them to play to their optimum, then who else is in the firing line. I was really annoyed to see footage of him at training this week with his whistle yelling almost out of control at players like some self glorifying teacher or drill sergeant. That approach worked 40 years ago, forget it now.
...
I hate it when people blame the coach for playing like that, choco certainly isn't telling them to give up in one on one's and playing a soft brand of footy thats for sure, so why should choco pay with the loss of his job?
The buck has to stop with the coach.
It must, no ifs no buts.
Ford Fairlane
14 May 2006, 17:58
And seriously, how scrawny do some of our players look? I thought Salopek had bulked up and he looked about as big as Farren Ray who everyone derided as a stick insect when the crowies pounded them here a few weeks back. And Surjan, bless him for his commitment and attack on the ball, but he looked the size of a flea.
Santos L Helper
14 May 2006, 18:05
1.Why, when a team starts losing is it time for a change of coach? So we get a new coach win another flag and then have anpther bad spell, do we give the new coach the flick for a new start to. Thats crap and i don't buy it, it has no logic what so ever.
2.Give me a few reasons why we get rid of choco? Since when ahve the players lost confidence in him, that has never been said and doesn't really seem to be the case.
1. When a team consistently plays rubbish football, then who else do you blame? And, yes, if you have a bad trot, you look elsewhere to find positive leaders for your team. You answered your own question. It IS perfect logic to keep improving.
2.
(a) We are playing rubbish football
(b) We are NOT developing young players
(c) Our 'game plan' is rubbish
(d) Choc refuses to accept any blame, and therefore the players are becoming sick of his constant 'blame laying' with other people.
(e) His 'sidekicks' are simply 'yes men' handpicked by Choco because they'll tell him everything he wants to hear, not what he NEEDS to hear.
Hows that for starters?
Bottom line, it's fine to blame the players. But when you keep picking those players after they continually let you down, then you've got to look at who is picking them. It's just defies logic as to why Choco would put guys out there that will eventually cost him his job. Wake up FFS.
And seriously, how scrawny do some of our players look? I thought Salopek had bulked up and he looked about as big as Farren Ray who everyone derided as a stick insect when the crowies pounded them here a few weeks back. And Surjan, bless him for his commitment and attack on the ball, but he looked the size of a flea.
Aahh come on Ford, I know we are all hurting, BUT, you and I both know it's not the size of the dog but the fight in the dog. ATM I would rather pearce, sala or surj's intensity than Dew Or Motlop who look Herculian next to these guys but haven't got half a heart compared to them.
Bottom line, it's fine to blame the players. But when you keep picking those players after they continually let you down, then you've got to look at who is picking them. It's just defies logic as to why Choco would put guys out there that will eventually cost him his job. Wake up FFS.
Hopefully sooner rather than later. We need to rebuild properly. Half-hearted attempts are not going to fix this large hole Port currently finds itself in. The club as a whole needs to be restructured from the top down.
Macca19
14 May 2006, 18:15
Give me a few reasons why we get rid of choco? Since when ahve the players lost confidence in him, that has never been said and doesn't really seem to be the case.
I completely disagree. Our players continually drop their heads nowadays. How many times does our side need to be walked over before a change is made? He keeps picking these senior players that just arent performing. He keeps making strange decisions with the clubs youth (like dropping DeLuca to play Thurstans as a 2nd ruck...yes Thurstans did well but its not the point). The players look completely disinterested and unmotivated. There is no leadership on the ground. His player rotations are stale and pre planned (for example taking Shaun off in the third quarter when he was killing them in the middle).
Its not all Chocos fault, but the buck stops at him. He picks the players, he picks the assistants, he picks the gameplans. None of them are working at the moment. If he and the club can make a stand and drop the passengers, then Ill be very happy and he would have done the right thing. If we continue to play sub-par football with these same passengers in the side then he will be ruining our football club and its future.
Aahh come on Ford, I know we are all hurting, BUT, you and I both know it's not the size of the dog but the fight in the dog. ATM I would rather pearce, sala or surj's intensity than Dew Or Motlop who look Herculian next to these guys but haven't got half a heart compared to them.
Exactly. All football logic would suggest that Pearce should not get a look in at AFL level, and the draft in his year supported that. But if you have his endeavour (his pace doesn't hurt, but still) you can impact footy games. Every player in our team could do what he does, but that they don't have it in them. That's what is so disappointing.
Santos L Helper
14 May 2006, 18:30
Aahh come on Ford, I know we are all hurting, BUT, you and I both know it's not the size of the dog but the fight in the dog. ATM I would rather pearce, sala or surj's intensity than Dew Or Motlop who look Herculian next to these guys but haven't got half a heart compared to them.
Agreed.......even on Surjan. ;)
crazy_big_al
14 May 2006, 18:32
Agreed.......even on Surjan. ;)
I am shocked mate. Jenno is going to come looking for ya mate.
We need player who want to play tough hard footy and will do anything to win, not players who will sit to the coat tails of other players.
Toots Hibbert
14 May 2006, 18:49
Why, when a team starts losing is it time for a change of coach? So we get a new coach win another flag and then have anpther bad spell, do we give the new coach the flick for a new start to. Thats crap and i don't buy it, it has no logic what so ever.
Give me a few reasons why we get rid of choco? Since when ahve the players lost confidence in him, that has never been said and doesn't really seem to be the case.
We've had a year and a half of basically garbage from the team. At the start of last year we had close to the same squad that the year before won a flag. Players don't lose talent overnight. The problem is between their ears.
Why there is a problem between their ears and what that problem is are the $64,000 questions. In any squad of football players there will be a range of personalities. Leaders, followers, loyal, selfish, motivated, lazy. Collectively our squad has gone off the rails. Something is going on behind the scenes that we are not privy to but there can be only one conclusion...
"There's something rotten in the state of Denmark!"
Eddie Woloschek
14 May 2006, 18:53
I would add Pettigrew to the list of outs, bring in who ever.
I'm not blaming the youth, it has been the seniors playing like a bunch of pansies. I hate it when people blame the coach for playing like that, choco certainly isn't telling them to give up in one on one's and playing a soft brand of footy thats for sure, so why should choco pay with the loss of his job?
All football clubs need lots of supporters like you. But sadly, some supporters know something about the game. Megalomaniac Mark is a dope, with no idea about how to coach a team. He has never had any idea. He is a total fraud. Power21, you would do a better job than he would. The players clearly do not respect him any more and it's time for him to do the manly thing and resign. If he hasn't done so wthin 48 hours, Greg Boulton and the board should sack him. Failing that, they should all resign.
What we are seeing this season is not Port Adelaide. I want my football club back.
Capital Power
14 May 2006, 18:58
The players clearly do not respect him any more
Is this true? the 9 commentators alluded to something like this I think in Q2 but I assumed it was piffle. :eek:
Is this true? the 9 commentators alluded to something like this I think in Q2 but I assumed it was piffle. :eek:
I think it's clear as day. When 75% of your team plays like they couldn't give a stuff, something is amiss.
All right Power21, what do you think should happen after today?
IMO, we are at a cross-roads:
Either Williams cuts the easy talk and shows some real discipline by punishing ALL of our non-performers today,
Or
he leaves.
Can't blame the youth today, now can he?
Ebert, DeLuca, Chaplin all out.
Surjan, Pearce and White probably in our best players.
Pettigrew and Salopek nowhere near as pathetic as many teammates.
Mark must make a stand now, for his future and the future of our once proud club.
He MUST drop at least 5 senior players this week, and replace them with genuine, untried youngsters. We could not be any worse next week.
We have hit rock bottom.
OUT:
MOTLOP, LONIE (disgraceful effort today), TREDREA (if you ain't fit, don't bother; his lack of leadership is staggering atm), BISHOP, CASSISI, DEW, MAHONEY.
IN:
SYMES, LOWER, THOMAS, CHAPLIN, WILLITS, THOMSON, BROGAN (if fit).
OR:
WILLIAMS and his assistant coaches get the chop.
I don't care if we lose every other game this year, but at least if you are going to use the excuse of YOUTH, make sure you play young players.
If we are supposed to be rebuilding, then let's rebuild.
Motlop and Mahoney both deserve at least a month on the sidelines. They were disgraceful. I have never seen such a lack of defensive pressure.
Terrible post - one of the worst ever i've seen from a port supporter. Mahoney has done nothing wrong. We have the lowest amount of inside 50's in the whole league. Mahoney is in the 50. If we can't get the ball to him, don't expect him to kick goals. If we can't kick it to tredders, white and even motlop, they won't kick goals.
To blame it all on Choco is ridicilous, you can't teach a player to play with heart and courage. That is something that they are born with.
Bucketeer
14 May 2006, 21:01
I have never in all my years supporting this supposively proud club seen more of a pathetic performance then i have today. We are now certainly botom 4 material and it's now officially the start of our rebuilding stage. Remember this is a club that won a premiership 40 odd games ago. What the hell is going on? Somthing internally i'm sure. Choco mate it's time to go. I'm not putting up with more of this :D:D:D:D.
dont put up with it then go support the crows sounds like you will fit in well there this club doesnt need "supporters" that are only here for the good times - every club needs to go through a re-building stage and this year i think was always gona be the start of one for us, and i for one think choco is doing a great job.
PJ Power
14 May 2006, 21:02
Terrible post - one of the worst ever i've seen from a port supporter. Mahoney has done nothing wrong. We have the lowest amount of inside 50's in the whole league. Mahoney is in the 50. If we can't get the ball to him, don't expect him to kick goals. If we can't kick it to tredders, white and even motlop, they won't kick goals.
To blame it all on Choco is ridicilous, you can't teach a player to play with heart and courage. That is something that they are born with.
Well, deeps I appreciate your compliment.
If a player can't play with courage and heart, then what the hell is he doing selected to play in our best 22. As far as I know, Choco decides who plays for us. We have been served up too many dishonourable losses in recent times, yet the guys who cop the blame and get dropped are always the same. Do you think Chaplin, Ebert and DeLuca have cost us our five losses this year?
If Choco persists with the same players (who lack heart and courage) then he has to pay the price for playing them. If he shows faith in youngsters and shows us we are rebuilding, he buys himself time and understanding - something Clarkson has sagely done at Hawthorn.
Re Mahoney - if you think Josh has played well since his St Kilda effort, then we disagree very heavily and I would suggest that you are the one with the terrible viewpoints.
More clearances today. Yet once again the ball got run out very easily from our HF line - same against Collingwood, Crows and the Dogs. He, Motlop and Tredders were part of that. They need to do better.
Toots Hibbert
14 May 2006, 21:08
All football clubs need lots of supporters like you. But sadly, some supporters know something about the game. Megalomaniac Mark is a dope, with no idea about how to coach a team. He has never had any idea. He is a total fraud. Power21, you would do a better job than he would. The players clearly do not respect him any more and it's time for him to do the manly thing and resign. If he hasn't done so wthin 48 hours, Greg Boulton and the board should sack him. Failing that, they should all resign.
What we are seeing this season is not Port Adelaide. I want my football club back.
Completely over the top Eddie. You don't coach a team to a flag if you have no idea. It may be that Choco's time is past but going over the top devalues your argument. We've been lower than we are at the moment and Choco has pulled the side together and moved on to success. It's difficult now to see him doing it again though.
Well, deeps I appreciate your compliment.
If a player can't play with courage and heart, then what the hell is he doing selected to play in our best 22. As far as I know, Choco decides who plays for us. We have been served up too many dishonourable losses in recent times, yet the guys who cop the blame and get dropped are always the same. Do you think Chaplin, Ebert and DeLuca have cost us our five losses this year?
No they haven't, but Chaplin has been poor this season, and Ebert hasn't done much. They certainly weren't the worst players we've had, but they've both been pretty poor. But in Kingsley and Wilson's case, they have both proven they can play at AFL level and play extremely well over a long period of time. Chaplin and Ebert have been given a chance, but they need to take the chance. They haven't done so, so back to the SANFL for them. I will be disappointed if they aren't both back this week, but if it was just a one week thing (maybe even 2 weeks), i agree with choco. They need to find some confidence/form. If not,their confidence will drop further and further at AFL level. DeLuca i won't comment on, he hasn't been given much game time, but has been decent when he was on. However it's obvious Mark doesn't think he's ready for long bursts of AFL, and isn't versatile enough. Thurstans, as much as i despise him, had a decent game today i though.
If Choco persists with the same players (who lack heart and courage) then he has to pay the price for playing them. If he shows faith in youngsters and shows us we are rebuilding, he buys himself time and understanding -[/quote
]
Who are these lacking courage and heart? In my views, its' these people
Bishop, Motlop, Dew.
Motlop is joining a new team, and is returning from 2 years of injuries. He should be dropped, i'm not saying he deserves his place, but i can see Choco's thinking. Bishop i'm completely lost as to why he is still in the side - but i don't think he will be for much longer.
Dew has shown glimpses and is looking better each week.
[quote]
Re Mahoney - if you think Josh has played well since his St Kilda effort, then we disagree very heavily and I would suggest that you are the one with the terrible viewpoints.
More clearances today. Yet once again the ball got run out very easily from our HF line - same against Collingwood, Crows and the Dogs. He, Motlop and Tredders were part of that. They need to do better.
As i said, if the ball came into the forward line quick and often enough, Mahoney will provide a contest every single time. He always gives 110% and is not at all afraid to put his head over the ball or body on the line. We rarely get the ball into our forward 50, and when we do, we take 9 years to do it, so that there is 44 players in our 50, and one Josh Mahoney can't do much.
It's interesting that out of the people you and most others have criticized (Tredrea, Motlop, Mahoney, White (except this week), Ebert etc.) are all forwards. When the midfield isn't getting the ball into the 50 quickly and in a good position, the forwards are made to look crap. Our defenders are getting caught out of position, and again, made to look crap.
We are getting murdered in the midfield, this is our problem. Not our forwards, not our defenders (bishop aside..and even he isn't too bad when our midfield is firing.)
Completely over the top Eddie. You don't coach a team to a flag if you have no idea. It may be that Choco's time is past but going over the top devalues your argument. We've been lower than we are at the moment and Choco has pulled the side together and moved on to success. It's difficult now to see him doing it again though.
How is his time up?!?
Ok
2004 - AFL Premiers
2005 - ANYONE would think Port were a reasonable chance to go at it again. So he delayed the development of the youngsters to give us another finals berth and have a crack at the flag. This failed pretty badly, but not Choco's fault at all. Any reasonable coach would have thought we'd be a chance, considering we'd JUST won the flag
2006 - this year. We got rid of some old players over the end of season break. Roger james, Jarrad Schofield etc. were told to leave. Waganeen has been told he won't be playing eveyr game this season even if fit. Alot of youngsters have got game. We are rebuilding. We are 6 games into the rebuilding season, and already people are calling for Choco's head. This is absolutely ridicilous.
People say 'look at adelaide, look at the saints' etc etc. They all went through the same stage we're going through now. Some of you guys are an embarassment to the PAFC.
PJ Power
14 May 2006, 21:28
I reckon if we were really blunt about it, the list of players underperforming would be alot longer.
The easiest three to highlight are Motlop, Dew and Bishop.
I think Dew has been better than he was for the first three weeks, but he is not fit and so is not contributing over 4 quarters. Right now, we need full four quarter contributors.
Motlop is setting a terrible example.
Bishop is taking up space. This year must be now about getting better for the future. We have to let new blood in.
If you broaden the criticism to players not playing within 5% of their best, the list would include:
Tredrea - is it really reasonable to wait 3 months before we can claim him to be back to full physical fitness, as he has suggested?
Kane Cornes - he was spectating today. When he did get it, his kicks and handballs were dreadful.
Cassisi - what is happening to this kid?
Peter Burgoyne - GO161 summed him up well. Little boy lost. Lots of running effort and hands on the ball, but he seems confused when he gets it. Is not backing himself or making good decisions.
Mahoney - he can play alot better. We need him to. Was outmarked a fair bit today and certainly outrun. Alot of it is delivery, but our forwards have forgotten how to win the 50-50.
Wilson - injured
Kingsley - injured
Lonie - I don't know how good his best is, but he wouldn't be in our top 28 in our premiership year.
I agree with the comments about our midfield - we are basically playing a whole lot of guys in there who do the old Nick Stevens trick of running past for the cheap handball, but unfortunately they can't kick cleanly and they don't run hard enough to make the second effort or to apply defensive pressure.
In addition, our forwards and backs were outmarked too easily today.
I reckon if we were really blunt about it, the list of players underperforming would be alot longer.
The easiest three to highlight are Motlop, Dew and Bishop.
I think Dew has been better than he was for the first three weeks, but he is not fit and so is not contributing over 4 quarters. Right now, we need full four quarter contributors.
Motlop is setting a terrible example.
Bishop is taking up space. This year must be now about getting better for the future. We have to let new blood in.
agree except on dew - he has never been the fittest guy around. He is a 'magic' player. Someone that will create things etc. Sure, i'd love to have him skinny and super fit, but he's not too bad the way he is. Could do with a bit more fitness, but i don't think dropping him back to the SANFL will help. He is slowly increasing, and is ~ 2-3 weeks away from good form. Going back to the SANFL will increase that rate to about 5.
If you broaden the critism to players not playing within 5% of their best, the list would include:
Tredrea - is it really reasonable to wait 3 months before we can claim him to be back to full physical fitness, as he has suggested?
Kane Cornes - he was spectating today. When he did get it, his kicks and handballs were dreadful.
Cassisi - what is happening to this kid?
Peter Burgoyne - GO161 summed him up well. Little boy lost. Lots of running effort and hands on the ball, but he seems confused when he gets it. Is not backing himself or making good decisions.
Mahoney - he can play alot better. We need him to. Was outmarked a fair bit today and certainly outrun. Alot of it is delivery, but our forwards have forgotten how to win the 50-50.
Wilson - injured
Kingsley - injured
Lonie - I don't know how good his best is, but he wouldn't be in our top 28 in our premiership year.
Agree with Cassisi, i forgot to metnion him. He's injured now, so he is definately out.
Pete Burgoyne has looked lost, but probably more because of the lack of hard running by everyone else, the support that he used to get etc. is all missing. He is still running as hard as ever, and getting the ball a fair bit, but now when he looks up, there is nothing on offer. He tries to create, and gets caught sometimes, because someone hasn't sheparded, or something like that. His disposal has been below par, but again, i don't see him as someone that should be dropped just yet. Even a champion player can be made to look low class, if surrounded by people that won't work with/for him.
Kane has been looking for easy ball for the whole season, and not going in for the hard ball anymore. Like i said in another thread, he needs a rocket. Dropping him isn't an option for us atm though.
I agree with the comments about our midfield - we are basically playing a whole lot of guys in there who do the old Nick Stevens trick of running past for the cheap handball, but unfortunately they can't kick cleanly and they don't run hard enough to make the second effort or to apply defensive pressure.
In addition, our forwards and backs were outmarked too easily today.
Exactly, no body wants to go and get the hard ball with the exception of pearce, chad cornes, white, salopek etc. Our forwards werent being outmarked, just spoiled too easily due to poor delievery. Our defenders weren't able to effect spoils, because of the great delivery on most occasions by the bulldogs players. Our midfielders gave them too much space, so they could take their time with their kicks. Our midfielders are either too small, too slow, no heart, or a combination of all three. We need to get some big bodies in there, which is why Williams has Chad Cornes in there. Heck, i'd throw tredders in there for bursts. It will get his fitness up much faster, and he can knock over some opposition players. It will also get him into the game. This has to be our absolute number one priority at the trade/draft table this season. A big strong bodied midfielder with a big heart.
PJ Power
14 May 2006, 21:40
Re Ebert, Chaplin and DeLuca.
No question about including Wilson and Kingers for this game and I concur with your assessment deeps of Toby, both on today's game and over a period of time.
But, if you were going to drop a small forward, then Motlop or Dew (who was injured for crying out loud) should have been made the scapegoats.
If you were dropping a tall defender, then Bish would make alot more sense.
My problem with Mark, is that he has not shown the older guys that their positions in the side are on edge. Matthews dropped Acker and Leppa and the Lions showed some spirit against the Hawks.
Williams needs to show these guys that their half-hearted efforts are no longer going to be tolerated. For his sake as much as our club's he has to get the strong message across to a host of these players. If he doesn't, he will face the music himself, and that will get Russell Ebert ugly.
Toots Hibbert
14 May 2006, 21:55
How is his time up?!?
Ok
2004 - AFL Premiers
2005 - ANYONE would think Port were a reasonable chance to go at it again. So he delayed the development of the youngsters to give us another finals berth and have a crack at the flag. This failed pretty badly, but not Choco's fault at all. Any reasonable coach would have thought we'd be a chance, considering we'd JUST won the flag
2006 - this year. We got rid of some old players over the end of season break. Roger james, Jarrad Schofield etc. were told to leave. Waganeen has been told he won't be playing eveyr game this season even if fit. Alot of youngsters have got game. We are rebuilding. We are 6 games into the rebuilding season, and already people are calling for Choco's head. This is absolutely ridicilous.
People say 'look at adelaide, look at the saints' etc etc. They all went through the same stage we're going through now. Some of you guys are an embarassment to the PAFC.
I've never openly questioned Choco before this, Deeps, and you've just quoted me defending his past record.
The problem I now have is that in the past season and a bit our side has accumulated a significant number of disgraceful losses. Games where the side showed a distinct lack of heart. You have to ask why that is and if you are prepared to give credit to the coach for a premiership you should likewise question him when the side is playing poorly.
I don't wish Choco ill and I'm sure he will remain strong and determined during this tough time just as he did in 2000 and in the face of the choking taunts. I'm just becoming extremely concerned that our game plan has fallen behind the times and that the morale of the team has demonstrably fallen apart. I'd love nothing better than to see Choco pull things together but I'm very pessimistic about that right now.
Eddie Woloschek
14 May 2006, 22:26
Completely over the top Eddie. You don't coach a team to a flag if you have no idea. It may be that Choco's time is past but going over the top devalues your argument. We've been lower than we are at the moment and Choco has pulled the side together and moved on to success. It's difficult now to see him doing it again though.
Sorry Toots, but the Port Adelaide of 2004 had a few more football brains around the place, both on and off the field. As for my comments being over the top, that is your opinion. I'm sure you would prefer that approach to the milquetoast half-hearted rubbish we serve up on match days. Let's not kid ourselves, a dip to the bottom of the table is no guarantee we are going to bounce. I've been saying it for a long time - the place is a rabble, from top to bottom, and only action will sort this out. We need an effective admin, an effective board and an effective coaching staff to be successful. Which of these three do we have at the moment?
Ford Fairlane
14 May 2006, 22:57
Aahh come on Ford, I know we are all hurting, BUT, you and I both know it's not the size of the dog but the fight in the dog. ATM I would rather pearce, sala or surj's intensity than Dew Or Motlop who look Herculian next to these guys but haven't got half a heart compared to them.
I didn't realise I was questioning their intensity or place in the team, just their size. There's another old saying you might be aware of "Good big man beats a good small man every time". Dew looks Herculean next to no one, he looks Michelin Manean. The simple fact is guys like Surjan, Salopek even Pearce (altho he has some great X Factor which overrides sheer physical size - but even he has put on 7 kilos since last year and openly says he is continuing to look to add muscle bulk) need to continue to bulk up, develop their core strength, so that they are able to withstand the physical rigours of the AFL. Look at the crow players now and in their premiership years, Brisbane at their peak, even Collingwood, West Coast - there are and were big bodies in there to take and hand out the physical game. Look at our Lonie next to Collingwood's Lonie and tell me they look like twins in physical size.
How did our club win a premiership?
Definitively......
1. Our inaugural coach identified, mentored, and developed a core of seven or eight key players upon which he built the team around. This group were to remain the same seven or eight players that remained together from game one in 1997 to the grand final. Had our inaugural coach had his tenure extended, premierships would have been won much earlier.
2. The incoming coach had at his disposal several quality assistants ( Geoff Morris, Dean Bailey, Alaistair Clarkson ) to balance out his obsessive negative gameplanning
3. Lady Luck smiled on us one Saturday night in September 2004 when she decreed we would play the battle scarred, body hit, tired, ageing and sore Brisbane Lions in the grand final and not the fleet of foot, take no prisoners Geelong.
Sorry Toots, but the Port Adelaide of 2004 had a few more football brains around the place, both on and off the field. As for my comments being over the top, that is your opinion. Yes, and mine. What you said was COMPLETELY over the top, and you betray yourself as being anti-Choco from the get-go. I bet you were livid when Jack ousted and Choco given the job, right?
As for there being "a few more football brains around the place, both on and off the field" in 2004, and you therefore taking credit away from Choco for coaching the team to a premiership, that is just soft.
You're saying he shouldn't get all the credit when the team performs, but when they don't, he should get all the blame.
Pi55 off.
I agree that the support staff we have atm is pathetic.
Eddie Woloschek
15 May 2006, 08:57
Yes, and mine. What you said was COMPLETELY over the top, and you betray yourself as being anti-Choco from the get-go. I bet you were livid when Jack ousted and Choco given the job, right?
You would be wrong with that one, but your errant supposition is hardly a surprise.
Magpiespower
15 May 2006, 09:36
How did our club win a premiership?
Definitively......
1. Our inaugural coach identified, mentored, and developed a core of seven or eight key players upon which he built the team around. This group were to remain the same seven or eight players that remained together from game one in 1997 to the grand final. Had our inaugural coach had his tenure extended, premierships would have been won much earlier.
2. The incoming coach had at his disposal several quality assistants ( Geoff Morris, Dean Bailey, Alaistair Clarkson ) to balance out his obsessive negative gameplanning
3. Lady Luck smiled on us one Saturday night in September 2004 when she decreed we would play the battle scarred, body hit, tired, ageing and sore Brisbane Lions in the grand final and not the fleet of foot, take no prisoners Geelong.
ROFLMAO!
Funniest post ever.
twosheds
15 May 2006, 10:22
Completely over the top Eddie. You don't coach a team to a flag if you have no idea. It may be that Choco's time is past but going over the top devalues your argument. We've been lower than we are at the moment and Choco has pulled the side together and moved on to success. It's difficult now to see him doing it again though.
In 2004 Choco admits he let the players have more input into how they played and if you go back and read interviews by the players they all talk about "enjoying"" being able to display some adventure and flair. Now they seem almost programmed or robotic on and off the field, when some one gets posession instead of doing the instinctive (football) thing they look sideways for a 1 metre handball or a 14 metre kick which just puts us under pressure, off field all of them look like they are reading froma script, sure we dont want an Akermanis but lets allow some original thought.
*PAFC*13
15 May 2006, 12:29
Agreed.......even on Surjan. ;)
I'm Jenno incase you didn't know. I do think you owe me an apology. ;)
Mr Magoo
15 May 2006, 15:20
Easy a few years ago we had a very solid midfield & a very good defence with a forward line that was capable of kicking 15-20 goals a match. Also back then the players played as a team as they wanted to achieve something & on grand final day they out ran & outplayed one of the best sides of all time by playing on just about every time at all costs & they won the hard ball.
Now full forward 30+ games .....
Some of those premiership players are disinterested, lazy, unwilling to chase or lay tackles & most importantly aren't playing as a team.
Count Zero
15 May 2006, 16:20
Keep your heads up fellas. Port Adelaide will be back, and nothing any of us says or does will affect the timing. Just keep on supporting, it's our only option.
ROFLMAO!
Funniest post ever.
Enjoying life in the warm fuzzy world of denial are you, mate?
Crow-mo
16 May 2006, 00:53
All this talk and putting the blame on choco is just crap, it's the players fault, they are playing like pansies. Lade is the ONLY senior player standing up. Do you honestly think this is all choco's fault?
If Choco has nothing to do with the performance, what - in your opinion - do you pay him for?
Seems a bit odd to me that you think such a highly paid member of your football club shouldn't carry any of the can?
whether it is, or isn't, choco's fault - surely he still needs to take some of the blame. if not with him, where does the buck stop?
Arsene Wenger
16 May 2006, 01:02
I think go 161 is pretty bloody close to the mark. However, you sort of indicate that it was luck. I think luck is earned through bloody hard work. In that 04 finals series we beat every side that finished in the top 4 to win the flag. We were definately worthy winners and i dont doubt you disgaree you just decided not to say it !!
I think go 161 is pretty bloody close to the mark. However, you sort of indicate that it was luck. I think luck is earned through bloody hard work. In that 04 finals series we beat every side that finished in the top 4 to win the flag. We were definately worthy winners and i dont doubt you disgaree you just decided not to say it !!
You're right AW. But I do believe it was Lady luck smiling on us that Brisbane got over Geelong in the other PF. I think Geelong may well have smacked us if they had got through.
On the other hand though there's every possibility that the players, as a group, were sick of the choker taunts and had made a pact with each other to win the big one to put them to rest.
Either way, to credit Williams with engineering it is folly. He was just in the right place at the right time. And we are now seeing the proof in the pudding.
Magpiespower
16 May 2006, 09:44
Either way, to credit Williams with engineering it is folly. He was just in the right place at the right time.
Ditto Jack Cahill, 1988.
wharfie_1870
16 May 2006, 10:51
...... But I do believe it was Lady luck smiling on us that Brisbane got over Geelong in the other PF. I think Geelong may well have smacked us if they had got through.......Yeah, just like they did in the 2004 Qualifying Final ;)
Port Adelaide 18-9-117
Geelong 9-8-62
Our best bit of luck in the 2004 finals was having Fraser Gehrig kick his 100th goal for the season in the Preliminary Final.
portentous
16 May 2006, 11:00
So it's the players who get the credit when we play well and the coach who cops it when we suck. Coaching is a crap job, I'd hate it. All of them from the coach down need to be accountable for our current form slump-I wish the players would show something on the field as the time for talk is over.
Yeah, just like they did in the 2004 Qualifying Final ;)
Port Adelaide 18-9-117
Geelong 9-8-62
Correct me if I'm wrong - but the aforementioned match was played at Football Park?
The Grand Final was not. Geelong would have had a massive advantage right there, as well as having a ' revenge ' mindset, and the weight of collective Victorian paranoia, on their side.
They would have been a far more formidable opponent than Brisbane were, in any case.
RogerRabbit69
16 May 2006, 23:04
Coaching is a crap job
Pay's pretty good, though :)
Ditto Jack Cahill, 1988.
Quite possibly.
But Jack backed it up with how many flags after that?? Three of them after his side was decimated by the inception of the Crows, forcing him to rebuild.
Short memories, some people.
Let's see Williams emulate it.
-I wish the players would show something on the field as the time for talk is over.
If the players are making a statement - as I believe they are - that they want Williams out, then brace yourself for more of the same until the board acts.
Santos L Helper
16 May 2006, 23:22
So it's the players who get the credit when we play well and the coach who cops it when we suck. Coaching is a crap job, I'd hate it. All of them from the coach down need to be accountable for our current form slump-I wish the players would show something on the field as the time for talk is over.
They are showing that we have ONE game plan, and that isn't a winning one right now. The game has passed Choco by.
Crow-mo
17 May 2006, 00:17
If the players are making a statement - as I believe they are - that they want Williams out, then brace yourself for more of the same until the board acts.
A number of our senior players sent a similar statement about wanting Shaw out; and when they succeeded the new regime was pretty clear about what it thought of this.
a few of yours would do well to think about this.
A number of our senior players sent a similar statement about wanting Shaw out; and when they succeeded the new regime was pretty clear about what it thought of this.
a few of yours would do well to think about this.
Very true. :thumbsu:
Arabian Goggles
17 May 2006, 00:36
Ditto Jack Cahill, 1988. Still would've won a premiership that year with Ebert. He was knifed.
Magpiespower
17 May 2006, 07:00
Quite possibly.
Most definitely.
But Jack backed it up with how many flags after that?? Three of them after his side was decimated by the inception of the Crows, forcing him to rebuild.
Let's see Williams emulate it.
Chalk and cheese.
The AFL Draft vs the SANFL's open slather.
Short memories, some people.
I'll say.
Less than two years for some.
portentous
17 May 2006, 10:52
ive always had this issue myself. i sometimes wonder how we won a premiership, i mean we were undeniable chokers, we wernt actually as good as we made ourselves out to be (brisbane were a much stronger side, we were just better on the day). i guess we got really lucky in the end, but hey, whos complaining.
nowadays i think we are going to be stuck at the bottom for quite a while. none of choco's plans are working and something seriously needs to be done about getting a coaching department which the young guys have faith in.
come on, we have the talent, we just dont have the commitment and the coach.
Hi Jack :D
RogerRabbit69
17 May 2006, 11:35
Jack .... or the Rooch .... or both??
Based on writing style (and underhanded trolling attempts), probably Jack.
wharfie_1870
17 May 2006, 12:03
ive always had this issue myself. i sometimes wonder how we won a premiership, i mean we were undeniable chokers, we wernt actually as good as we made ourselves out to be (brisbane were a much stronger side, we were just better on the day). i guess we got really lucky in the end, but hey, whos complaining.......What's the matter Jack, given up writing in the third person?
If you think it helps disguise you, you're wrong ;)
A number of our senior players sent a similar statement about wanting Shaw out; and when they succeeded the new regime was pretty clear about what it thought of this.
a few of yours would do well to think about this.
You're forgetting the upshot of that action by the new regime at your club.
Maybe that sort of upheaval is what we need, to get rid of a bit of dead wood.
[QUOTE]Most definitely.
Chalk and cheese.
The AFL Draft vs the SANFL's open slather.
Fact remains though that Jack succeeded where Williams failed repeatedly.
A capable coach would have achieved far better results. To wit, a well coached side would not have surrendered winning positions in both finals in 2001. A well coached side would not have been beaten in home qualifying finals in 2002 and ( especially ) 2003 against travelling opposition.
And as for the cave in in last year's semi.....
Williams has had a magbificent list in his time at the club and has mismanaged it dreadfully. He is now being found out for the fraud he is, as the cream on that list gets thinner and thinner.
I'll say.
Less than two years for some.
Consider it short memory on my part if you wish, but as I have posted elsewhere in this thread, I credit the flag win more to a players' pact or resolve than a coaching masterstroke.
In any case, Id rather a short memory than blind loyalty or denial.
Crow-mo
18 May 2006, 00:24
You're forgetting the upshot of that action by the new regime at your club.
Maybe that sort of upheaval is what we need, to get rid of a bit of dead wood.
of course I am not forgetting the upshot - for the club. the point is, it ended 3 senior player's careers. So, if the players won't play hard for the club/coach, perhaps they should think about the possible implications for themselves.
Magpiespower
18 May 2006, 02:26
Fact remains though that Jack succeeded where Williams failed repeatedly.
Not in the VFL/AFL.
For starters, Williams has never coached a side to a 133 point loss in a Preliminary Final.
Williams has had a magbificent list in his time at the club and has mismanaged it dreadfully. He is now being found out for the fraud he is, as the cream on that list gets thinner and thinner.
Whether you like it or not, Williams is responsible for the 2004 premiership.
Had a far greater impact on Tredrea, Cornesx2, Burgoynex2, Carr, Lade etc. than Cahill.
Consider it short memory on my part if you wish, but as I have posted elsewhere in this thread, I credit the flag win more to a players' pact or resolve than a coaching masterstroke.
In any case, Id rather a short memory than blind loyalty or denial.
Not showing blind loyalty nor am I in denial.
I am, however, a realist.
And don't jump off the bandwagon after one average year - in which we still made the finals - and three bad games.
Geez, some Port supporters s**t me to tears with their carry-on.
Choco has many good qualities/talents, and so does Cahill.
I personally always rate Cahill up there with the greatest coaches ever, and would love to see him have another tilt at the AFL.
Anyway, for all the anti-Choco and pro-Choco talk....there is just one thing that needs to be addressed....the actual gameplans that Choco uses are awful. Our forward line isn't the best going around, but it's far from the worst. There are some good options there if they are used properly.
If we went in with a consistent game plan to kick long and direct to one-on-one contests in the forward line, we'd come away with more goals and marks than we currently do, no matter who was playing forward. Mahoney, Lade, Tredrea, Cornes, even players like Thurstons can take marks one-on-one if given the space to operate one-on-one.
In playing long and direct, if any of those players don't mark, there would be enough occasion and opportunity for effective crumming that would still lead to more shots on goal.
I don't know what's really going on behind the scenes, but if I had to assume, I would say Choco is pig-headed. But forget that, the most evident thing where he has failed before and where he continues to fail, is his gameplans. Players don't chip and handball as we do unless it's by instruction.
portentous
18 May 2006, 09:39
Geez, some Port supporters s**t me to tears with their carry-on.
I second that motion.
I heard about the trash being spoken on the Bigfooty forum under the Port Adelaide banner via SAfooty.net,but I must say I didn't believe it.I now must say if you clowns continue to rubbish any member,be it coach,player or official of a club you supposedly "love",well,p**s off,go follow some one else,we dont need that crap.We need continued support from people who want to see the club do well,not fair weather fools who jump off at the first smell of failure.
*PAFC*13
18 May 2006, 14:09
I heard about the trash being spoken on the Bigfooty forum under the Port Adelaide banner via SAfooty.net,but I must say I didn't believe it.I now must say if you clowns continue to rubbish any member,be it coach,player or official of a club you supposedly "love",well,p**s off,go follow some one else,we dont need that crap.We need continued support from people who want to see the club do well,not fair weather fools who jump off at the first smell of failure.
This is an open forum, people can say whatever they :D:D:D:D they want. Now many be you should go ****off.
This is an open forum, people can say whatever they :D:D:D:D they want. Now many be you should go ****off.
Well dude,if you support slander and ridicule of the team you are meant to support,(key word SUPPORT) I probably will.
Porthos
18 May 2006, 15:11
Go barrack for Carlton, I think thats where members who blindly follow their board belong.
Go barrack for Carlton, I think thats where members who blindly follow their board belong.
Mate,I understand and fully appreciate the impact such a disastrous performance can have on our team,club as a whole,and more importantly on the confidence the supporters show in the group.But to rubbish players collectively,and worse still individually is,for me,not on.
Im more for constructive criticism as opposed to blatant disrespect.
And no,I wouldn't go and barrack for Carlton for anyone,for they appear to be too thin skinned when the pressure is on,Port Adelaide are better than that.
Macca19
18 May 2006, 16:58
Good to see you over here Booney.
I think the main problem is that many of us have seen this coming for up to 3 years now and have been pushing for things to change, but that change has only seemed to come now and it seems far too late.
A summary much of the last week or two's discussion:
"You give out too much abuse. You're not a real supporter!!"
"Bugger you, you're a sheep. Pi55 off!"
People who complain about players and coaches incessantly are not necessarily wrong, they are just tiresome.
People who question someone's loyalty and love of the club because that person complains a lot, are misguided, but if they really mean to say: "I'm hurting enough with all that's going on, I don't need to hear about it incessantly as well", then they may have something.
I think the main problem is that many of us have seen this coming for up to 3 years now and have been pushing for things to change, but that change has only seemed to come now and it seems far too late.How have we been pushing exactly, Macca. Are you overestimating our significance and the impact our posts have?
I would say forming a committee and lining up outside the club every day with placards was pushing for change. That organising online polls and questionaires was pushing. That lobbying the board with mountains of phone calls, email and snail-mail was pushing. But just coming here to the Port board on BF and complaining after losses - I wouldn't have thought that was pushing too hard.
What a fantastic Avatar!! Well done :thumbsu:
Macca19
18 May 2006, 17:25
How have we been pushing exactly, Macca. Are you overestimating our significance and the impact our posts have?
You misunderstood what I meant. Pushing on this board. I realise what we write here probably has about 0.0001% impact on what actually happens at the club.
portentous
18 May 2006, 17:29
Mate,I understand and fully appreciate the impact such a disastrous performance can have on our team,club as a whole,and more importantly on the confidence the supporters show in the group.But to rubbish players collectively,and worse still individually is,for me,not on.
Im more for constructive criticism as opposed to blatant disrespect.
And no,I wouldn't go and barrack for Carlton for anyone,for they appear to be too thin skinned when the pressure is on,Port Adelaide are better than that.
Hi Booney. :thumbsu:
Magpiespower
18 May 2006, 17:30
Reckon the main problem is that, as supporters, we have been spoilt by success.
Unbelievably spoilt.
portentous
18 May 2006, 17:35
I prefer to think of it that we set high standards.
Reckon the main problem is that, as supporters, we have been spoilt by success.
Unbelievably spoilt.
It's possible, but you look at the Brisbane Lions who we get lumped in with in the same sentence all the time these days. Their supporters were spoilt, so they can take the crapola. I don't think our guys have earnt the right to rest on their haunches with a feeling of "job well done". Looking back on our record in a few years time, sure, it may look pretty decent... but we only scratched the surface of what the team could've achieved.
Keep it mind, I'm only 21, maybe some of you old geezers have been spoiled a bit too much over the years :P
I prefer to think of it that we set high standards.
Regardless of it being the SANFL or AFL, Port Adelaide HAVE proven that they can indeed maintain very high standards which they collectively and individually place on the PAFC.
Part of this is maintaining a stable successful structure. Key words, 'stable' and 'successful'. If certain things are not always successful there is no point maintaining them pig-headedly (ie, possession game).
Fos and Jack had the gift as coaches, as does Mark. They have all achieved immensely successful things. There's no denying Mark the recognition for his achievments in getting Port to 3 minors, 1 flag, 2 preseason cups.
However, if there are any internal problems, any player-coach dissent, any lack of patience in Mark, any failing gameplan, then it is NOT bad for a club and its supporters to dissect the club and solve the problems.
Port maintains a high standard, and it only does this due to being so transparent in itself, allowing constructive criticism amongst itself, allowing admin to be questionable. No resting on laurels. No sacred cows. But constantly adapting and evolving.
Conclusion......My personal opinion is that Choco is a suitable coach, a strong-willed passionate Port man. The right ingrediant. He has a good eye for talent, young or thru trades. He can develop them. He can mold a "team" capable of having a 70% win ratio and being a regular Finals contender. He has some ingenuity in his mind with creating tactics/gameplans. The only thing bad about him is that his beliefs in tactics diverge so much from the traditional Port (Fos-Jack) way of long/direct kicks and very very minimal handpassing. He has his OWN way, and him being stubborn-minded, determined, coupled with the success he has achieved, means he is perhaps more inclined to keep on believing in it despite the lack of talent he has that suits it. With a gun forward like Tredrea, and a strong spine like Tredrea, Lade, Burgoynes, Cornes, Wakelin, but weaker around the edges, a better gameplan that would suit this strong spine is one of long-direct up the guts football. Choco has lost a lot of his highly skilled older players who gave Port strength around the edges, players who could play precise short football.
Bottom line, all Port supporters love Port and are not being traitors or offensive in pausing season 2006, and asking "What's wrong with my club, where are the problems, what has happened, where can we go from here, what can we do to improve, as we do NOT accept mediocrity, and must seek to solve the problems and cultivate that success again"....that is all that we are all doing.
Something wrong has happened since 2004, we slid in 2005, but we often collapsed too. There was intermittent talk of dissension in the club (tredrea vs williams, scott vs williams). In 2006, that something that is wrong inside the club has seen us perform suddenly consistenly so bad and we all KNOW we can do better, are not THAT BAD as we have been playing the last couple of weeks. I could see dissension onfield against the Crows, with the 2nd Qtr the team just saying "F*ck this, we'll take matters into our own hands". With the talent we still have available, Port are not a bottom 4 side, we are 8-10. We shouldn't be losing so badly, shouldn't be running out of fitness so soon, shouldn't be playing only 2 or 3 qtrs per game, shouldn't be without leadership on field at varying times. Rudderless. These sorts of things are USUALLY indicative of something internal going on -- it could be the fitness coaches, it could be the assistant coaches, it could be between coach and a core group of players or a coach and all the players, it could be the coach and the board. Something's wrong off-field that is showing on-field....does anyone dispute this entirely? Does anyone also see this?
[QUOTE]Not in the VFL/AFL.
For starters, Williams has never coached a side to a 133 point loss in a Preliminary Final.
Not yet. Stay tuned though.
I'd say losing two unloseable qualifying finals at home in sucessive years more than emulates that feat anyway.
And considering that the side Jack coached to a Prelim final in 1984 was the same side that ran second last in 1982 with 4 wins, and had a number of issues at board level and financially - I'd say that was a pretty fair effort.
Whether you like it or not, Williams is responsible for the 2004 premiership. How exactly?
Here's a simple concept for you to consider: It's not that hard to build a house if someone provides you with a load of good quality bricks.
But here's the tricky bit. To make it stand up to the elements, you have to build it using skill and knowhow, otherwise it will fall over as soon as a few of those bricks come loose. And what do we see? That house is crashing down because it wasn't built properly. And rather than rebuild it with new quality bricks......I'm sure you get the picture.
Had a far greater impact on Tredrea, Cornesx2, Burgoynex2, Carr, Lade etc. than Cahill.
Disagree re: Tredrea, P burgoyne, C Cornes and Lade. Carr, I'll grant you.
Not showing blind loyalty nor am I in denial.
I am, however, a realist.
Sorry mate, you're no realist. You're a sheep. Sorry, but them's the facts.
And don't jump off the bandwagon after one average year - in which we still made the finals - and three bad games.
Geez, some Port supporters s**t me to tears with their carry-on.
I'm no bandwagoner. My membership is current and I have attended every home game so far. And will continue to do so.
Fact is I have seen this coming for years, and IMO the club needs urgent change to put the wagon back on the rails.