View Full Version : Succession plan for 2007
crows98
15 May 2006, 00:48
Succession plan for 2007
Firstly let me just say I have not started this thread to troll or to gloat as we (the Crows) have been in your predicament with Mr Ayres and Mr Shaw at the helm.
Like most have said in my option you need a new coach who can motivate the older player to perform like they used to, but whom? It’s not Port Adelaide style to go and grab any old Victorian coach and I also do not think that Steven Williams or Tim Giniver would be capable of doing the job just yet.
My selection as senior coach of the PAFC in season 2007 would be Alistair Clarkson but firstly the club would have to make a tough decision on Mark Williams’s future. Port Adelaide also don’t have a history of sacking coaches mid season and this would take a lot of guts from the board to even consider such a thing.
If such a thing was to occur and the coach was sacked and the board decided to do this to remove all speculation Mathew Primus could take over as interim coach and he would have the respect of the players. This would give Alistair Clarkson an opportunity to register his interest especially as Hawthorn is not in any hurry to resign him to a long term contract. He has had a history with your club and knows the tradition at the club. He is a good young coach who is not afraid to take a few shots on the chin for the greater good of the club in the long run.
How will the side line up?
2007
FF: Daniel Motlop Brendon Lade Josh Mahoney
HF: Jacob Surjan Warren Tredrea Damon White
C: Adam Thompson Brett Ebert Daniel Pearce
HB: Troy Chaplin Chad Cornes Steven Salopek
FB: Michael Wilson Toby Thurston’s Shaun Burgoyne
Ruck: Dean Brogan Kane Cornes Peter Burgoyne
Interchange: Michael Pettigrew, James Ezard, Brad Symes, Peter Walsh
Forward line: with the 3 tall’s (Lade, White and Tredrea) and the smalls of (Surjan, Motlop and Mahoney) would be a very commanding forward structure.
Midfield: Thompson, Ebert and Pearce will give you a young and very quick centre line that has very good ball movement, Kane Cornes and the 2 Burgoyne bother will give you class and skills and the only think lacking is to add another hard nut that will get in and win the ball contested ball with Kane Cornes. The Burgoyne brother are receiver (don’t take it as an insult) but if you could add another strong body midfield type could go along way to rejuvenating your list.
Defence: Thurston’s may have ran his race but I see him as a key defender who may be useful if given a chance, Cornes, Wilson and S Burgoyne are always going to be reliable and a classy defender so that is not a major problem.
Retire and delist and trade: Wanganeen, Wakelin, Franco, Bishop, Stuart Dew, Domenic Cassisi,
I would try and trade for a good young ruckman (Ivan maric) who is ready to play now as this would allow Brendon Lade to play as a key forward as well as a hard as nails midfielder who can step into the side and command respect (Scott Thomson).
Your first round draft pick would go nice for those 2 player.
I know this is your club and I don’t want to be seen as being a troll, I just wanted to add my perspective as to how you could turn it around quite quickly so you don’t end up like Carlton and still rebuilding in 5 years time. please be nice. :thumbsu:
Arsene Wenger
15 May 2006, 01:04
Pretty fair analysis mate - I do not want to see Thurstans ever again but thats me... We are still lacking a genuine GUN midifielder. Whilst I think Thomson will be good - I have reservations of Ebo. Losing Carr and Stevens for jack all is really starting to hurt now.
Hopefully this years draft nets us a young gun in the mould of griffen, ball or somethin similar. By god we need it...
I tell you what - whilst i agree he had run his race with us Byron would be handy to still have !!
PJ Power
15 May 2006, 01:09
Very reasonable post IMO, as if people at our club are not already planning for 2007 then they have their heads very much in sand.
The planning should start tomorrow.
Choco should be called in to meet the board and given very clear instructions about what is expected for the rest of this season - that should be to make us best prepared to be competitive for 2007. If he achieves that, then he can carry on as coach until his contract expires (end of '07).
Any player who is not contributing both by effort and performance should make way as of this week.
All of the experienced brigade have had ample chances to repay Williams' faith in them and they have shown him exactly the esteem and respect they have for him as a coach. It is now his turn to repay their generosity back to them, by sending them to deal with their SANFL coaches.
Our longterm plan starts with rebuilding our defence.
For the remainder of this year it should be:
Chaplin....Wakelin....Thomas
Symes....Chad Cornes....Lower.
Other than Wakelin (who will be relpaced by one of Carlile or Willits next year) the other five should hold their spots in '07. This is their opportunity to start working together.
Midfield:
enough plugging holes with Chad Cornes. Longterm solutions are needed.
We have only three young midfielders who really look capable of AFL quality: Pearce, Thomson and Salopek.
Ezard, Eckerman are maybes.
Ebert has lost me atm.
Midfield:
Pearce.....Shaun Burgoyne.....Salopek
On-ballers: Kane Cornes, Peter Burgoyne
Forwards:
I would love to see us play resting midfielders up forward, rather than one dimensional opportunists.
No Motlop unless he really comes good at SANFL.
Rest Surjan and Thomson up forward when not rotating through the midfield.
Otherwise
White, Tredrea, Lade (or Willits if Brogan is missing) and Mahoney can have the opportunist's spot.
Overall side for 2006:
B: Chaplin.....Wakelin.....Thomas
HB: Symes.......Chad Cornes.....Lower
C: Salopek....Shaun Burgoyne.....Pearce
HF: Surjan....Tredrea (when fit).....Thomson
FF: Willits....White....Mahoney
R: Lade.....Peter Burgoyne....Kane Cornes
Int: Brogan....Wilson....Walsh....Cassisi (when fit and his form allows)
Trade bait:
Dew - we can still get something for him. Let's use it to get a player who will be a central not peripheral contributor.
Ebert - again, he would attract a top 20 draft pick IMO at this stage of his career, but not if he remains a fringe player for another 2 years.
Pettigrew - will play a fair bit of AFL football, but is he what we need in the longterm?
Aim to secure 3 top 20 draft picks.
Use 2 for the best all-round midfielders we can get our hands on and the other for a key forward.
Yesterdays game proved that surjan is an out & out midfielder. I have been saying this since he came to the club and yet we still have people pidgeon holing him in our forward line. Why would you restrict his type of running game. It's beyond me !
PJ Power
15 May 2006, 09:13
Yesterdays game proved that surjan is an out & out midfielder. I have been saying this since he came to the club and yet we still have people pidgeon holing him in our forward line. Why would you restrict his type of running game. It's beyond me !
Not pigeon-holing him into a forward at all, oporto.
He would very much be my second change rover for the rest of the year, with Thomson my second change ruckrover. I just make the point that I would prefer both their tenacity, tackling and in Surjan's case run on our forward line (when not in the midfield) snapping at the feet of our talls, rather than these "medium-sized", "specialist" forwards like Dew and Motlop who give us no bite up there and very little aerial advantage.
The alternative is to develop Surjan into a wingman (where he did some good things against Collingwood and again yesterday) and use Pearce as the HFF/second rover.
If you prefer to play Surjan off the bench when not in the midfield then play him from there.
How well is our coaching staff teaching our younger players? How well are our senior players showing our younger players how to play (this is my concern with PJ's back half)? I don't believe we have made the club a good learning environment.
I think we're in for a bit more pain as the on-field leadership is lacking and the off-field stuff is even worse (not that that is saying a lot.)
macca23
15 May 2006, 11:18
Ebert - again, he would attract a top 20 draft pick IMO at this stage of his career, but not if he remains a fringe player for another 2 years.
The overall principle of your post was very sound, particularly about rebuilding your defence for the long-term with Chad Cornes as the cornerstone of it.
But I couldn't agree that Ebert would get a top 20 draft pick - he's nowhere near that territory.
To be honest, he's just a player struggling to hold his spot at AFL level. IMO he'd be closer to being a delist rather than a trade, sad as that may be.
crows98
15 May 2006, 14:16
Yesterdays game proved that surjan is an out & out midfielder. I have been saying this since he came to the club and yet we still have people pidgeon holing him in our forward line. Why would you restrict his type of running game. It's beyond me !
To be considered one of the better midfield in the competition you need to compare it to the West Coast Eagles. They would have 10 if not 12 quality player rotating through there midfield and they are all very capable of being a match winner on there day, that’s why someone like Jacob Surjan is a very important part of your teams structure. He may start on a half forward flank but he has the ability to rotate into the guts and that will keep the pressure on as the second unit is still just as strong as the first.
crows98
15 May 2006, 14:20
Pretty fair analysis mate - I do not want to see Thurstans ever again but thats me... We are still lacking a genuine GUN midifielder. Whilst I think Thomson will be good - I have reservations of Ebo. Losing Carr and Stevens for jack all is really starting to hurt now.
Hopefully this years draft nets us a young gun in the mould of griffen, ball or somethin similar. By god we need it...
I tell you what - whilst i agree he had run his race with us Byron would be handy to still have !!
Had he ran his race with Port Adelaide or Mark Williams?
Neil Danaher is getting exceptional service out of Choppy at the moment, but only time will tell if he can keep that motivation for long periods of time.
Had he ran his race with Port Adelaide or Mark Williams?
Neil Danaher is getting exceptional service out of Choppy at the moment, but only time will tell if he can keep that motivation for long periods of time.Yeah, that's Choppy though, inconsistent through and through.
He couldn't get anywhere near the ball for the first three or four rounds, now he's in a purple patch. Soon he'll slump again. He was like that at North, then with us...
To be considered one of the better midfield in the competition you need to compare it to the West Coast Eagles. They would have 10 if not 12 quality player rotating through there midfield and they are all very capable of being a match winner on there day, that’s why someone like Jacob Surjan is a very important part of your teams structure. He may start on a half forward flank but he has the ability to rotate into the guts and that will keep the pressure on as the second unit is still just as strong as the first.
Reasonable arguament crows98. I hadnt approached it from that point of view:thumbsu:
SpringChoke
15 May 2006, 15:45
The overall principle of your post was very sound, particularly about rebuilding your defence for the long-term with Chad Cornes as the cornerstone of it.
But I couldn't agree that Ebert would get a top 20 draft pick - he's nowhere near that territory.
To be honest, he's just a player struggling to hold his spot at AFL level. IMO he'd be closer to being a delist rather than a trade, sad as that may be.
He can't even make the 15th placed teams starting 22, yet he's a top 20 pick.:D
He can't even make the 15th placed teams starting 22, yet he's a top 20 pick.:D
This poor kid is suffering from some very ordinary coaching. He won the Magarey medal and his old man is a legend he should shine. Something is very wrong in Alberton.
SpringChoke
15 May 2006, 15:59
This poor kid is suffering from some very ordinary coaching. He won the Magarey medal and his old man is a legend he should shine. Something is very wrong in Alberton.
What does his old man is legend have to do with it. Its not going to make him play footy any better. From what i've seen the kid just doesn't have it. At best, he may develop into a handy 2nd tier midfielder ( See Cassisi )but he's never going to be top shelf player in the S Burgoyne mould. Not much the coach can do about that.
crows98
15 May 2006, 16:00
Potentially Brett Ebert is worth a first round draft pick but at the moment no club would even seriously consider as he is way to inconstant and just doesn’t show enough of his potential when he is in a Power jumper. For some reason Mark Williams cannot get the best out of Brett Ebert and this is untimely going to hinder his AFL career.
If Mark Williams is still coaching the power in 2007 it may be in Brett Ebert’s best interest to ask for a trade to get away from the Alberton and the legacy his father has at that ground.
afc9798
15 May 2006, 16:01
The overall principle of your post was very sound, particularly about rebuilding your defence for the long-term with Chad Cornes as the cornerstone of it.
But I couldn't agree that Ebert would get a top 20 draft pick - he's nowhere near that territory.
To be honest, he's just a player struggling to hold his spot at AFL level. IMO he'd be closer to being a delist rather than a trade, sad as that may be.
Whilst you may be right, I keep seeing signs in Brett Ebert that are positive. I'd like to see him given a decent run in the midfield or even given a tagging role to see how he handles the job, which would also free up other players. Much as I am happy to see our boys doing well, I hate seeing potential football talent wasted by playing him in a role (small forward) that clearly doesn't suit him or his strengths. The guy won a Magarey by playing ion the PAMFC midfield, so surely he's got something to offer in that role. It might take a few games to pick up the flow, but given Port's position currently, it's certainly worth a shot.
If he improves, then worst case scenario is that he has improved his trade value, if he doesn't then you're no worse off and if he plays really well, then you've got a sorely needed quality midfielder. No downside to this option.:thumbsu:
crows98
15 May 2006, 16:05
Whilst you may be right, I keep seeing signs in Brett Ebert that are positive. I'd like to see him given a decent run in the midfield or even given a tagging role to see how he handles the job, which would also free up other players. Much as I am happy to see our boys doing well, I hate seeing potential football talent wasted by playing him in a role (small forward) that clearly doesn't suit him or his strengths. The guy won a Magarey by playing ion the PAMFC midfield, so surely he's got something to offer in that role. It might take a few games to pick up the flow, but given Port's position currently, it's certainly worth a shot.
If he improves, then worst case scenario is that he has improved his trade value, if he doesn't then you're no worse off and if he plays really well, then you've got a sorely needed quality midfielder. No downside to this option.:thumbsu:
See Jobe Watson at Essendon
He was gone at the end of the season if he didn’t do anything, now he is virtually there best midfielder.
PJ Power
16 May 2006, 11:09
Although this thread has been dominated by Crows supporters, I'd like to keep it running by raising this thought/question.
Could we develop a midfield to compare favourably to West Coast's current top 6 midfielders, within 2-3 years?
Putting coaching and player development aside which is clearly half the battle, I would argue that we have the personnel and opportunity to acquire personnel to give us six very good, balanced and complimentary midfielders by the end of 2008.
1. Pearce, I would compare in lots of ways to Daniel Kerr. He is achieving the same things Kerr was in his first 30 games. Physical development is the next step.
2. Salopek - at last with consecutive games, he is showing some class but he still has deficiencies; work off the ball, leg speed, quality of disposal. But he is getting to it. Could he be at the level of Chad Fletcher in 2-3 years?
3. Thomson - hard to assess. Not thriving since being dropped to the SANFL. Too uni-dimensional in his manner of disposal, but probably still an important part of our midfield.
4. Kane Cornes - would have to rate him on the level of Stenglein and even then on current form Stenglein does more with the footy and gets closer to goal.
5. Shaun Burgoyne - probably already the calibre of Embley, but a different style of player. Must now be kept in the midfield, while Lower, Symes and Thomas are given the tough jobs in defence.
I have deliberately not included the likes of Cassisi who is a second-tier midfielder IMO and Peter Burgoyne and Chad Cornes who will be past their midfield prime by the end of 2008. I would like to see Chad return to defence for the remainder of this year to allow us to consolidate our midfield with regular young players there.
I anticipate (perhaps even hope for 1-2 early draft picks this year). Someone of the calibre of Bryce Gibbs would accelerate our midfield development considerably quickly.
All I mean to do here is to point out that contrary to the current theme of losing hope about our playing group (accentuated by the coach not by people posting here), we actually have the potential cattle to be performing at a very decent level in the most critical part of the ground within a 2-3 year period. How the coaching staff foster and develop that group of players is critical.
Mark Williams the onus is actually on you.
*PAFC*13
16 May 2006, 16:17
Although this thread has been dominated by Crows supporters, I'd like to keep it running by raising this thought/question.
Could we develop a midfield to compare favourably to West Coast's current top 6 midfielders, within 2-3 years?
Putting coaching and player development aside which is clearly half the battle, I would argue that we have the personnel and opportunity to acquire personnel to give us six very good, balanced and complimentary midfielders by the end of 2008.
1. Pearce, I would compare in lots of ways to Daniel Kerr. He is achieving the same things Kerr was in his first 30 games. Physical development is the next step.
2. Salopek - at last with consecutive games, he is showing some class but he still has deficiencies; work off the ball, leg speed, quality of disposal. But he is getting to it. Could he be at the level of Chad Fletcher in 2-3 years?
3. Thomson - hard to assess. Not thriving since being dropped to the SANFL. Too uni-dimensional in his manner of disposal, but probably still an important part of our midfield.
4. Kane Cornes - would have to rate him on the level of Stenglein and even then on current form Stenglein does more with the footy and gets closer to goal.
5. Shaun Burgoyne - probably already the calibre of Embley, but a different style of player. Must now be kept in the midfield, while Lower, Symes and Thomas are given the tough jobs in defence.
I have deliberately not included the likes of Cassisi who is a second-tier midfielder IMO and Peter Burgoyne and Chad Cornes who will be past their midfield prime by the end of 2008. I would like to see Chad return to defence for the remainder of this year to allow us to consolidate our midfield with regular young players there.
I anticipate (perhaps even hope for 1-2 early draft picks this year). Someone of the calibre of Bryce Gibbs would accelerate our midfield development considerably quickly.
All I mean to do here is to point out that contrary to the current theme of losing hope about our playing group (accentuated by the coach not by people posting here), we actually have the potential cattle to be performing at a very decent level in the most critical part of the ground within a 2-3 year period. How the coaching staff foster and develop that group of players is critical.
Mark Williams the onus is actually on you.
Great post mate. :thumbsu: :) :thumbsu:
Stiffy_18
16 May 2006, 17:03
The overall principle of your post was very sound, particularly about rebuilding your defence for the long-term with Chad Cornes as the cornerstone of it.
But I couldn't agree that Ebert would get a top 20 draft pick - he's nowhere near that territory.
To be honest, he's just a player struggling to hold his spot at AFL level. IMO he'd be closer to being a delist rather than a trade, sad as that may be.
While I agree that he wouldn't get a top 20 pick, especially in this draft, I do think he is a good player and Port would be dumb to delist him.
I have seen a fair bit of Ebert and to me he is an out and out midfielder who can rest forward and pinch in with a goal or two.
I see Ebert today, and I see a player who is VERY low on confidence and unsure of where exactly he stands with the Power. There is no doubt Ebert has the ability to be a REALLY good AFL midfielder but I don't think he has the confidence of the coaching staff. He is under severe pressure IMHO and when ever he takes a possesion he just thinks too much and feels like his whole career hangs on that kick, or that handball or that shot at goal.
If Choko can have more faith in Ebert and show a great deal of confidence in him like Craig has done with a lot of our players who were on the verge of being shown the door, then IMHO, Ebert will perform to his potential.
I don't know, but there is just something about Ebert that I like and I could see someone like Craig turning him into a REALLY good AFL player. Very unlikely that Ebert plays anywhere but Port Adelaide though but he is a good player IMHO.
Stiffy_18
16 May 2006, 17:06
Potentially Brett Ebert is worth a first round draft pick but at the moment no club would even seriously consider as he is way to inconstant and just doesn’t show enough of his potential when he is in a Power jumper. For some reason Mark Williams cannot get the best out of Brett Ebert and this is untimely going to hinder his AFL career.
If Mark Williams is still coaching the power in 2007 it may be in Brett Ebert’s best interest to ask for a trade to get away from the Alberton and the legacy his father has at that ground.
You are probably right but the kid is too proud for that. He is Port Adelaide through and through and I beleive he will stick it out with the power.
PJ Power
16 May 2006, 17:45
You are probably right but the kid is too proud for that. He is Port Adelaide through and through and I beleive he will stick it out with the power.
I don't know so much about that Stiffy. At the moment Russell is biting his lip and not saying much so that Brett isn't disadvantaged, but the Ebert clan are not at all happy with alot of things down at Alberton, not least of which is the way that Brett has been played.
There has not been much so far this year to suggest that Williams has improved his management of Brett. It remains a big problem and as you've pointed out is largely responsible for Brett's low confidence and resultant poor form.
Given another half-season of this type of treatment, Brett may be convinced to look elsewhere for a trade.
How good is he?
I am not so sure anymore, but the kid who won a Magarey 3 years ago had something very noticeably of AFL quality. The one I watched in the second half on the weekend had no magic, very little leadership and nothing that set him aside from his SANFL teammates and opponents.
If Williams is not going to get the best out of Ebert, then while he is our coach we are better off trying to trade him for the earliest draft pick on offer. That will be alot higher at the end of 2006 than it might be in 2008 after two more years on the fringe.
Magpiespower
17 May 2006, 07:12
Would love to see Surjan have a run in the middle.
At least you know he's going to have a dip.
Why not try Ebert at half back? Im sure he played quite a few games there for the magpies. Being accountable for an opponent playing at half back or as a run with role may give him the confidence boost (by holding his opponent)he needs to take that next step??
Porthos
17 May 2006, 14:07
I think that we have now officially suggested that every one of our out-of-form players should have a run at half-back to find form.
I think that we have now officially suggested that every one of our out-of-form players should have a run at half-back to find form.
Maybe that explains why we seem to end up with 17 or 18 players in the oppositions forward lines too many times this year ?:eek: :p