View Full Version : Players who may not be bombers in 2007
baywatch5
15 May 2006, 19:56
Hi there all,
Some thoughts on players who may be moving on after this season:
A.Hennerman (8 yrs on list / 55-65 gms) make or break year
J.Renoylds (4 yrs on list / 30 gms) not sure if he can cut it
A.Ramanauskas (sad story, future is up in the air)
D.Rioli (seems set to retire)
J.Hird ( seems set to retire)
Soloman / Johnson boys ( are in the worst form of there careers. Sheedy may look at moving one of hem on )
Any thoughts guys
rule of four
15 May 2006, 20:15
yeah i reckon your spot on there. What about Mark Bolton - hes had his chances? Although i suppose he is playing better this year.
Peverill isnt having a great year either but i reckon the johnsons are still good
Karlostj
15 May 2006, 20:25
Hi there all,
Some thoughts on players who may be moving on after this season:
A.Hennerman (8 yrs on list / 55-65 gms) make or break year
J.Renoylds (4 yrs on list / 30 gms) not sure if he can cut it
A.Ramanauskas (sad story, future is up in the air)
D.Rioli (seems set to retire)
J.Hird ( seems set to retire)
Soloman / Johnson boys ( are in the worst form of there careers. Sheedy may look at moving one of hem on )
Any thoughts guys
Henneman is out for the rest of the season with a shoulder reconstruction... Not sure what that means for his future, but it can't be very positive...
Lance Uppercut
15 May 2006, 20:39
J.Hird ( seems set to retire)
Hird's injury is a blow in many ways. In my opinion Hird is still not sure what he'll do next year. I'm sure he'll make up his mind at the end based on 3 factors.
1. Form
2. Injury
3. Team
I'm devastated by Hird's soft tissue injury, because he has still capable of sparkling form, and has not been worse than very solid this year. I was sure if he kept up that form, he'd be a monty to play on next year.
Injury though is the other factor. He's been so plagued by injury over his career that this will always be a huge factor. Quite frankly, I don't know how many more times James Hird can handle sitting on the bench injured watching his team get done; it's happened too often.
That doesn't even take into the account the effect injuries like this can have, like the pain of rehabilitation and the pressures on other parts of his life . If he is dogged by soft tissue injuries, let alone a big one, he probably won't go on.
He'd hate to leave the Bombers in a mess though. Team is the other variable I think. Lets just hope he comes back and gets through the season. He'll find form, as long as he keeps fit.
Nuts4Bolts
15 May 2006, 20:47
There are probaly about 10-12 that should go, but can't shake it up as much as we did last year. You'd think Henneman would have to be de-listed. Rioli and Hird to retire, although hopefully not, with Pevrill and Bolton to fight for their spots. The Johnson's should stay, they are good for the club. I'd look to trade Welsh, Solomon and McVeigh. You might only get second round picks for them, but 2nd round picks this year look to be really good. Plus it will free up some salary cap room too, because when Stanton, Watson, Dyson, Monfries, Bradley, Lovett, Lovett-Murray, Laycock, Ryder, Dempsey etc all become stars we will need it.
austinthedog
15 May 2006, 21:05
camporeale on top of that list, should not have ever been a bomber and has given us nothing
Longy413
15 May 2006, 21:57
The Johnson's will definately be on our list next year.
As if Campo won't be, geez have some friggin patience
There are probaly about 10-12 that should go, but can't shake it up as much as we did last year. You'd think Henneman would have to be de-listed. Rioli and Hird to retire, although hopefully not, with Pevrill and Bolton to fight for their spots. The Johnson's should stay, they are good for the club. I'd look to trade Welsh, Solomon and McVeigh. You might only get second round picks for them, but 2nd round picks this year look to be really good. Plus it will free up some salary cap room too, because when Stanton, Watson, Dyson, Monfries, Bradley, Lovett, Lovett-Murray, Laycock, Ryder, Dempsey etc all become stars we will need it.
how could you justify trading mcveigh? he has been one of the best taggers in the league this season and probably would be in the top 3 in the b&f before missiong last week. i dont know about others but i probably would not except a round 1 choice (unless maybe in the top 9 ) then a second round choice for mcveigh
who knows, some people are just going absolutely stupid
henneman has to go. one of either bolton or peverill should be traded if not both. rioli will retire. i hope hirdy goes again for 1 more year. the johnsons will be on our list next year. not sure about rama. solly could be traid bait but it would have to be a good deal before the club will trade a premiership player. not sure about reynolds i think he should be given more time. andrew welsh needs to find form aswell or also could be traid bait.
henneman has to go.
Surely
one of either bolton or peverill should be traded if not both.
Someone would have to want them first
rioli will retire. i hope hirdy goes again for 1 more year.
Hirdy needs to go again, can't go out like this
the johnsons will be on our list next year.
They have to be, they will be back
not sure about rama.
I have a feeling he will still be there, still, only a feeling
solly could be traid bait but it would have to be a good deal before the club will trade a premiership player. not sure about reynolds i think he should be given more time. andrew welsh needs to find form aswell or also could be traid bait.
Again, a team would have to want them. I still have faith in both Solly and Welshy to come good again, atm, it's just not happening for them, if a trade came up that was good for us, you'd have to look at it. Reynolds needs a few games this year to prove himself.
rhino49
15 May 2006, 22:20
Hi there all,
Some thoughts on players who may be moving on after this season:
A.Hennerman (8 yrs on list / 55-65 gms) make or break year
J.Renoylds (4 yrs on list / 30 gms) not sure if he can cut it
A.Ramanauskas (sad story, future is up in the air)
D.Rioli (seems set to retire)
J.Hird ( seems set to retire)
Soloman / Johnson boys ( are in the worst form of there careers. Sheedy may look at moving one of hem on )
Any thoughts guys
there is no way in hell we will tade JJ, top 3 in the b&f for the past five years, he is heart and soul, MJ came runner up last year, i will be first to admit he is shocking form but he will turn it around, i dont want to see us turning on players cause they have one bad season. You still get people saying we should have kept richards who is a dud, but in the next breath want to trade players who have been puting in year after year, stick fat we will get through this.
Henneman HAS to go! He's not even VFL standard. How can the club justify keeping him on, and yet in the past let go of a workman like player in Berbakov puzzles me.
Hirdy n Rioli will most likely retire (hopefully Hirdy stays on) Ones too FAT n the other has given us EVERYTHING he's got.
Winderlich who I think should be given game time to see if he has that fire to stay on our list.
And it PAINS me to include Rama in there also but highly unlikely he'll suddenly bounce out of the blocks next year as penetrating as we know him to be (hard luck story)
Bolton would HOPEFULLY be up as trade bait for a midfielder type or second round draft pick at best.
Reynolds DEFINITELY. Waste of a player..may as well play him for the rest of the season in the seniors with our season in tatters n see if can give the club reason to keep him on.
As for Solly and the Johnnos, we'd be bloody stupid to let them go. Solly just needs to apply himself again n begin from basics. As for the Johnnos, theyre still the mongrels we like them to be. theyre just looking second rate in a team thats been torn to shreds. They'll ALL bounce back in 07/08.
What I would like to see is Bradley or Laycock make HUGE progress within the next 2 years or Id be offering them as trade bait also....especially Bradley with all the wraps that he came with.
Nuts4Bolts
15 May 2006, 22:56
how could you justify trading mcveigh? he has been one of the best taggers in the league this season and probably would be in the top 3 in the b&f before missiong last week. i dont know about others but i probably would not except a round 1 choice (unless maybe in the top 9 ) then a second round choice for mcveigh
McVeigh has been good for us this year, after promisng so much but delivering so little, but the reality is he isn't going to win us a premiership. Taggers don't do that and he won't/can't step up to play in the middle. Really, how much of a difference will he make if he is not playing next year. He is replaceable. He has some value and that is why he should be traded. We need to get as many picks as we can in the top 25. We should be aiming to get 5 picks in the first 2 rounds like the Hawks have been able to do.
Longy413
15 May 2006, 22:59
No one will trade away early picks next year unless the deal is heavily weighted in their favour.
We would have to give away a hell of a lot to get 5 top 25 picks.
blumfieldisback
15 May 2006, 23:15
McVeigh has been good for us this year, after promisng so much but delivering so little, but the reality is he isn't going to win us a premiership. Taggers don't do that and he won't/can't step up to play in the middle. Really, how much of a difference will he make if he is not playing next year. He is replaceable. He has some value and that is why he should be traded. We need to get as many picks as we can in the top 25. We should be aiming to get 5 picks in the first 2 rounds like the Hawks have been able to do.
yeah we should aim for that but hawthorn only got them because kangaroos the kangaroos are so broke they needed mature aged players to keep them off the bottom, i dont think anyone will be silly enough to trade a high pick for any of our tradeable players. Also on the negative clubs have been reluctant to trade with essendon since 2000, we havnt had great deals come our way, ted richards for dempsey may prove fruitful in 4 years time.
I think we will finish with the wooden spoon, we'll get the number 1 draft pick and pick 17 we might be able to trade one of if not both the johnsons for second round picks we will then get the number 1 pre season draft pick and i have a feeling we are going to target akermanis.
Longy413
15 May 2006, 23:17
Trading the Johnson's will do more harm than good.
Sheedy has learnt his lesson, he won't trade away good clubmen, good leaders, club champions, if he doesn't have.
and i have a feeling we are going to target akermanis.
i believe he is contracted till 2007, so we will not be able to get him in the PSD, we will have to trade for him, if we wanted him.
He is a gun, but is entering his 30's, so you wouldn't wanna give up too much
Longy413
15 May 2006, 23:24
i believe he is contracted till 2007, so we will not be able to get him in the PSD, we will have to trade for him, if we wanted him.
Brisbane can delist him. Just means they have to either pay out his contract if he doesn't get drafted or re-draft him.
Richmond did it was Zantuck, we did it with D Mac.
Brisbane can delist him. Just means they have to either pay out his contract if he doesn't get drafted or re-draft him.
Richmond did it was Zantuck, we did it with D Mac.
That's true, but they wouldn't do it if they can get a trade with another team, which would be pretty likely, someone would give up something for him.
Longy413
15 May 2006, 23:27
That's true, but they wouldn't do it if they can get a trade with another team, which would be pretty likely, someone would give up something for him.
He could refuse to be traded.
He could refuse to be traded.
Leigh would probably tell him to shove it and play him in the ressies all year.
If it was possible to get him in the PSD, i'd be all for it, then again, who says we're finishing last still.
Nuts4Bolts
16 May 2006, 00:53
No one will trade away early picks next year unless the deal is heavily weighted in their favour.
We would have to give away a hell of a lot to get 5 top 25 picks.
That's why I'm nominating McVeigh and Welsh. They are good players that would gain a highish pick. I think so anyway.
That's why I'm nominating McVeigh and Welsh. They are good players that would gain a highish pick. I think so anyway.
We wouldn't even get much for them. Teams value their high picks more than ever these days, we'd get late 2nd round to 3rd rounders at best, for these players with experience and talent who aren't yet old at all, with finals experience, would be major rip offs.
Philzsay
16 May 2006, 13:43
Well we are only a third of the way through into the season. Play some of the question mark players for reasoanble periods during the rest of the season to give them a chance to prove (or disprove) their value to the team.
Then we can spend all of September debating who should leave the club.
Karlostj
16 May 2006, 13:59
We wouldn't even get much for them. Teams value their high picks more than ever these days, we'd get late 2nd round to 3rd rounders at best, for these players with experience and talent who aren't yet old at all, with finals experience, would be major rip offs.
Didn't we get a first rounder for Richards?
who isn't as good as either of these players.
Plus we gave away an early 2nd round pick for Cole, who isn't as good as McVeigh....
Daytripper
16 May 2006, 14:03
That's why I'm nominating McVeigh and Welsh. They are good players that would gain a highish pick. I think so anyway.
Small defenders are a dime a dozen. No club is going to trade for them unless its something ludicrous like pick 40 or so.
The only players that would have decent trade value (top 20) are Bradley, Laycock, Hille, Lucas/Lloyd (to a contender like WB or Geelong) and Monfries (to a SA club).
blumfieldisback
16 May 2006, 14:07
i believe he is contracted till 2007, so we will not be able to get him in the PSD, we will have to trade for him, if we wanted him.
He is a gun, but is entering his 30's, so you wouldn't wanna give up too much
if a trade doesnt eventuate ala camporeale im sure brisbane will want to just get rid of him and release him from contract. having said that of course brisbane will try and get the best possible deal for him but not too many clubs will go for him i have afeeling carlton and essendon are desperate for him.
Nah i wouldnt want to give up much for him but we dont have much to give away anyway, maybe we could give them campo or welsh or soloman
Longy413
16 May 2006, 14:12
Didn't we get a first rounder for Richards?
who isn't as good as either of these players.
Plus we gave away an early 2nd round pick for Cole, who isn't as good as McVeigh....
It was in a draft a lot of clubs didn't rate and those that did noted that it was incredibly even and finding a player with a pick in the 40's was just as likely as in the 20's. This draft is much, much stronger from all reports. A second round pick is probably worth as much as a first round pick in the last draft.
if a trade doesnt eventuate ala camporeale im sure brisbane will want to just get rid of him and release him from contract. having said that of course brisbane will try and get the best possible deal for him but not too many clubs will go for him i have afeeling carlton and essendon are desperate for him.
Nah i wouldnt want to give up much for him but we dont have much to give away anyway, maybe we could give them campo or welsh or soloman
It might be just me but I have a feeling most of the Vic clubs would have a go at getting him, therefore Brisbane would be able to get something decent for him.
If they wanted Solly or Welsh for Aker I'd do it in a second.
I don't know if they'd want Campo although I'd guess that he'd reject the trade anyhow.
Aker in the PSD would be sweet, he is an enourmous talent, but again who says we are finishing last.
WeneedyoungJarmans
16 May 2006, 15:41
just from an outsider's point of view, I've been having these discussions with my Bomber supporter mates for the last 2 yrs.
My argument has been as follows, when it comes to list management, you need to make a cut throat decision, does our current list cut it to win a flag and therefore do we top up and try and win one or, trade valuable midfielders and KPPs in their mid-late 20's, sacrificing today for the future. This can enable your club to get an extra couple of top 10 picks necessary in order to build a core playing group of quality and similar age players that can play and develop together with the ultimate aim of winning a flag.
regarding the Bombers, ultimately, the names being thrown around for trading like Welsh, Solomon and McVeigh are worthy of perhaps a pick in the late 20's in a weak draft but more likely 30 onwards in this yrs draft. In fact, half back flankers are dime a dozen. Clubs would generally prefer to exercise the right to a draft pick than take someone else's dead wood. Especially when all clubs are in need of KPPs, ruck stocks etc. Why waste even a top 30 pick on a HBF? I wouldnt!
If you want top 10 picks, as I said earlier, you must give up either a top onballer or a top KPP. It may sound crazy but you have to give up something valuable to you today in order to gain for tomorrow. Another club would need to be heavily enticed to give away their top 10 pick for a player of yours. Players that could demand a top 10 pick are possibly Hille and perhaps Lucas although this should've been done a yr or two ago. Possibly his stocks have decreased. Fletcher is now untradeable. And your midfielders are of no interest to anyone.
Similar to the strategy applied by the hawks in trading Hay for picks 14 and 18 and Thompson for 10 and 26, you need to do the same. Sure, the Hawks could be winning more games today. Perhaps even make the 8 if they still had Thommo and Hay but the decision was made that even still, they would not be good enough to win a flag with the current list.
Essendons list assessment has been somewhat in denial. Inflated by the media. Sheedy prides himself in rebuilding on the run but his list management strategy of trying to resurrect unwanted players careers is catching up to him. Poor drafting has taken place in the past 4 yrs and there are few if no quality A graders coming through with exception of Ryder and Monfries who were first rd picks. But you need more of them. Many many more to become a top side again. Sheedy needs to put his pride in check, stop talking about 1 premiership every decade and premierships in general. Every article I read with Sheedys comments and playing kids makes reference to premierships. He is somewhat become senile I believe when you consider how poor his list has become and his top up strategy has left him with a lot of dead wood and lots of underperforming mediocre players.
Just like the rest of the competition, its time for the Bombers to bottom out, rebuild thoroughly and truly over a 3 yr period, trade a valuable player or 2 and build a descent squad. Talking 10 wins for this yr and relying on Hird and Fletcher will only prolong the inevitable.
What can we get for Kepler Bradley. id take an early first round pick, but thats just my opinion.
Longy413
16 May 2006, 16:07
What can we get for Kepler Bradley. id take an early first round pick, but thats just my opinion.
And draft another tall that's going to take 5-6 years for develop only to have fans want to trade him after three years if we can get a first round pick for him?
We wont have to trade the new pick if he can mark, kick and just in general fill spot in our side. There is no spot for kepler in our side. He was picked to replace fletcher, but he is not a defender. Get something while we can.
Longy413
16 May 2006, 16:16
We wont have to trade the new pick if he can mark, kick and just in general fill spot in our side. There is no spot for kepler in our side. He was picked to replace fletcher, but he is not a defender. Get something while we can.
So you'd be willing to give a new pick time to develop, but not Kepler.
Fair enough.
So you'd be willing to give a new pick time to develop, but not Kepler.
Thats not what I meant. I dont think kepler is good enough, he just seems to lack some very basic skills. I do like his endeavour though.
Either way it doesnt matter coz he will be a bomber for a few more years at least.
Id DEFINITELY throw Cartledge in the mix....dont think he's made of the sterner stuff! I think Sheedy needs to watch the National Draft this year from home as opposed to attending it and leave his leiutenants to do the selecting for our future. At least, we wont have to worry about any Carlton offcuts or fading lights gracing our team pages.
Aside from the kids who arent really coming along, Im pointing my finger squarely at the coach this time...Cricket Australia has been able to survive making the hard decisions, so should the board this time.
We've lost Harvey, lets not lose Gary also.
Daytripper
16 May 2006, 16:27
And draft another tall that's going to take 5-6 years for develop only to have fans want to trade him after three years if we can get a first round pick for him?
Spot on !!!
Karlostj
16 May 2006, 17:40
I'm not advocating tading anyone, but its interesting to hear that Solomon and McVeigh is only worth an early 30 pick, when Richards was worth pick 19. A guy who struggled to get a game with Essendon...
Cole was worth pick 21?, isn't he a HBF? Hay was worth a couple of first round picks... I'd put Solomon ahead of this guy and McVeigh as well.
If trading McVeigh and Solomon was only going to net a low 30 pick there is no way they would be traded. That is a joke. Solomon was 3rd in the B&F in 2004... Sure he is down of form at the moment, but not so much that he is worth a low 30 pick.
If Hay is worth pick 14 and 18... then I'd want two top 10 picks for Hille and there is no way we'd trade a guy that is a future captain like him....
Longy413
16 May 2006, 17:47
You have to take into account the relative strength of the draft and the type of player being drafted. A lot of clubs didn't rate the draft last season. The number of early picks traded was rare. It won't happen this year, the draft is a lot stronger. A lot believed the draft was very even and getting a player at 40 was just as likely as getting a player at 20. Lucy is a perfect example of that, he was rated top 30 but fell through to 60, he wasn't the only example. It was an even draft. This year the top 30 or so are said to be fantastic but there is perhaps not the depth there was last year.
You also have to remember Richards and Cole aren't at the peak of their powers. McVeigh and Solomon are, in Solly's case he may well be beyond his best.
djharps
17 May 2006, 22:18
give bradley a go.. the kid is young... he has skills that yes could and will be polished.. he will bulk up and is getting his fair share of the ball week in week out... time will develop him and make him a more efficient user of each position... he is playing back/ruck/rover/wing/forward at the moment and expected to develop... second/third season i believe... copped soo much more flack than he should (might not have massive amounts of talent but has a massive heart and tries thats what i like) must hurt him when people say next fletcher poor kid thats massive shoes!!! did fletcher get thrown around the ground like bradley does??? no i remeber flectcher playing forward fair average... i dont remember ppl forum bashing him infront of goals... beacuse he established him one position... bradley has not had the luxury like fletcher has.... give him time a chance and a go!!.. and its the ppl who in one breath go bradley (N) then go johns will be a great player if only.... id rather a fit average player than a could be who never plays
just from an outsider's point of view, I've been having these discussions with my Bomber supporter mates for the last 2 yrs.
My argument has been as follows, when it comes to list management, you need to make a cut throat decision, does our current list cut it to win a flag and therefore do we top up and try and win one or, trade valuable midfielders and KPPs in their mid-late 20's, sacrificing today for the future. This can enable your club to get an extra couple of top 10 picks necessary in order to build a core playing group of quality and similar age players that can play and develop together with the ultimate aim of winning a flag.
regarding the Bombers, ultimately, the names being thrown around for trading like Welsh, Solomon and McVeigh are worthy of perhaps a pick in the late 20's in a weak draft but more likely 30 onwards in this yrs draft. In fact, half back flankers are dime a dozen. Clubs would generally prefer to exercise the right to a draft pick than take someone else's dead wood. Especially when all clubs are in need of KPPs, ruck stocks etc. Why waste even a top 30 pick on a HBF? I wouldnt!
If you want top 10 picks, as I said earlier, you must give up either a top onballer or a top KPP. It may sound crazy but you have to give up something valuable to you today in order to gain for tomorrow. Another club would need to be heavily enticed to give away their top 10 pick for a player of yours. Players that could demand a top 10 pick are possibly Hille and perhaps Lucas although this should've been done a yr or two ago. Possibly his stocks have decreased. Fletcher is now untradeable. And your midfielders are of no interest to anyone.
Similar to the strategy applied by the hawks in trading Hay for picks 14 and 18 and Thompson for 10 and 26, you need to do the same. Sure, the Hawks could be winning more games today. Perhaps even make the 8 if they still had Thommo and Hay but the decision was made that even still, they would not be good enough to win a flag with the current list.
Essendons list assessment has been somewhat in denial. Inflated by the media. Sheedy prides himself in rebuilding on the run but his list management strategy of trying to resurrect unwanted players careers is catching up to him. Poor drafting has taken place in the past 4 yrs and there are few if no quality A graders coming through with exception of Ryder and Monfries who were first rd picks. But you need more of them. Many many more to become a top side again. Sheedy needs to put his pride in check, stop talking about 1 premiership every decade and premierships in general. Every article I read with Sheedys comments and playing kids makes reference to premierships. He is somewhat become senile I believe when you consider how poor his list has become and his top up strategy has left him with a lot of dead wood and lots of underperforming mediocre players.
Just like the rest of the competition, its time for the Bombers to bottom out, rebuild thoroughly and truly over a 3 yr period, trade a valuable player or 2 and build a descent squad. Talking 10 wins for this yr and relying on Hird and Fletcher will only prolong the inevitable.
It all sounds good but so far no team has won a flag using this method and currently no one looks like doing it.
Just on Scott Lucas how can you say his stocks have decreased? He kicked 50 goals last season and didnt play the whole season at CHF.He had a number of stints in defence.
IsDonIsGood
18 May 2006, 01:07
We wont have to trade the new pick if he can mark, kick and just in general fill spot in our side. There is no spot for kepler in our side. He was picked to replace fletcher, but he is not a defender. Get something while we can.
I seem to remember Kepler having a few good games last year playing on the half back line. Works hard, has a good footy brain and 'can' take pack marks. Play him in one position for a while and then make a judgement on him. He looks ungainly, but so does fletch. Don't think he has the kicking skills of fletcher, but he will only get better with time. If he spends a couple of year solidly working in the gym, could turn out to be a pretty big unit.
d-mac3276
19 May 2006, 22:14
Brisbane can delist him. Just means they have to either pay out his contract if he doesn't get drafted or re-draft him.
Richmond did it was Zantuck, we did it with D Mac. i never got traded whilst still under contract haha