View Full Version : World Cup-Will the brothers make it?
dogboy23
4 Jan 2002, 08:08
Will the waugh brothers make it to the next world cup or should we begin grooming some players in there place.There is plenty of replacements for them but the decision needs to be made soon and has to be stuck with.Steve has said he wants to go on and then to the next tour of India but can we afford to wait and see if his form will hold up.I would love for him to finish his career off with another win at the world cup but these things need to be planned so we must make a decision now.
I can't see why they wouldn't play. We need their experience and they are both pressure players. They will rise to the occassion and help bring the World Cup home.
Originally posted by Robbo1
I can't see why they wouldn't play. We need their experience and they are both pressure players. They will rise to the occassion and help bring the World Cup home.
There is plenty of experience in the side already so that isnt a problem. If there form wavers they should be dropped. Especially mark. Why should the selectors play favourites??
Ruddeger
4 Jan 2002, 11:23
If the World Cup was a test comp, I don't think it would be a foregone conclusion. There's every chance that neither of these plars will be in the test team by the time the World Cup comes around, Mark especially.
But one-day cricket is a different prospect and their experience is necessary.
Hopefully when the Waugh brothers do call it a day they aren't both retiring at the same time.
So we don't have two have two new players getting used to the test set up at the same time. It would be could someone could get settled in the side before the other brother retires.
Bloodstained Angel
4 Jan 2002, 11:49
Mark Waugh should have been kicked out of the game in disgrace years and years ago.
He is corrupt and prefers passing, er, 'weather and pitch information' to Indian bookmakers to playing test cricket.
If he wasn't the twin brother of the captain he would have gone ages ago.
... and his batting has been pretty ordinary too. Whats this joker still in team for ? - his slips catching ?
spare me.
Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
If he wasn't the twin brother of the captain he would have gone ages ago.
... and his batting has been pretty ordinary too. Whats this joker still in team for ? - his slips catching ?
Agreed here. Mark Waugh is a very lucky at the moment.
Steve Waugh's usefulness in the one day game is dwindling - I made the comment last year and was berated :p. He is now probably Australia's weakest fielder (of the batsmen) and the weakest batsman (comes in at 6 or 7, and doesn't bowl and is probably the slowest run-scorer of the top/middle order).
With Australia lacking proven players under 30, and lacking an all-rounder, it's time for Steve to step aside for some matches/series and create a spot for grooming someone while the team is still strong enough to carry a young bloke for a few matches.
Either that or step aside for Darren Lehmann who is a run machine. :D
Skipping the one-dayers will also prolong his Test career so he can chase those all-important records and accolades. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Darky
Agreed here. Mark Waugh is a very lucky at the moment.
Steve Waugh's usefulness in the one day game is dwindling - I made the comment last year and was berated :p. He is now probably Australia's weakest fielder (of the batsmen) and the weakest batsman (comes in at 6 or 7, and doesn't bowl and is probably the slowest run-scorer of the top/middle order).
With Australia lacking proven players under 30, and lacking an all-rounder, it's time for Steve to step aside for some matches/series and create a spot for grooming someone while the team is still strong enough to carry a young bloke for a few matches.
Either that or step aside for Darren Lehmann who is a run machine. :D
Skipping the one-dayers will also prolong his Test career so he can chase those all-important records and accolades. :rolleyes:
Agree with everything you said there. These days in one-day cricket you can't really be one-dimensional. Most of the batsman can bowl something or are brilliant fielders like Ponting.
Would also love to see Lehmann back in the team but somehow i can't see it happening.
Steve Waugh is averaging in excess of 45 since the 99 World Cup, hardly the weakest of the batsmen in the One Day team. His usefuleness as a one day player is hardly dwindling, as his average has been constantly going up since the World Cup.
His average for 2000 was 41.21 (3rd best Australian behind Martyn and Bevan), and in 2001 it was 48.50 (5th best Australia and 13th best in the world).
And a Stirke Rate of 85 for the 2001 year and 83 for the 200 year is hardly a setback for the team.
His career average is 32 and Striek Rate is 73, so it means he is playing as good as one day cricket as he ever has so there is no reason to why he should be pushed aside from the team.
As far his test record, he has a had an ordinary summer, averaging under 30, but he will bounce back, and if he doesnt, well then he probably will get the chop. But he has been such a proven performer over 8 years, there is no reason to push the panic button after 6 poor tests. Fair enough, other players dont get 6 poor tests and still regain their spots, but they havent had 8 years of brilliant performance.
His average since the Sri Lankan series where he broke his nose is 51.92, so that is hardly reason to show any concern just yet, the guy is class and he will bounce back.
One thing most people dont realize is that Steve Waugh spent 67 months inside the top two batsmen in the world according to PWC's ranking (from early 1994-late 1999).
As for Mark Waugh, his average since the 99 World Cup has also been 45, hardly a cause for concern for team. And like his twin, his average has been constantly on the rise. And he is very dangerouse scoring 7 centuries in that time (53 Innings), which is an extremely good rate of centuries.
And his average for the 2001 year was 80.50, better than anyone else in the world. Why is there any reason to drop him from the one day team.
Theres talk about Hayden coming into the team, but i dont know where he is going to fit in, unless the decide to drop Gilchrist as opener and move him down to 7 (his average was 43.88 for 2001, which was the lowest of Australia's top 6, and that is hardly reason for conern).
Mark Waugh's spot in the test team however, i feel is under a bit of jeopardy. His average since the Sri Lankan series (1999/2000) is only 41.92, which in this current team isnt great. Pretty good when we can say a player of his calibre is struggling to hold his spot.
At the moment i think the teams are right the way they are, and this will be the general way of replacing the current test team as they retire (obviousbly not accounting for lack of form, injury etc,. etc,.) :
Matt Hayden (1971) - will stay around for around 3 years, maybe a bit longer, probable replacements would be Jimmy Maher (1974) and Michael Hussey (1975) or perhaps even Scott Mueleman (1980) - depending how he comes on
Justin Langer (1970) - as above
Ricky Ponting (1974) - will be around for at least five years, so his replacement would not be high on the priority list. will take over from Steve Waugh as captain
Mark Waugh (1965) - replaced by Simon Katich (1975) for the 2002/2003 season
Steve Waugh (1965) - replace by either Michael Clarke (1981), Martin Love (1974), Brad Hodge (1974), Shane Watson (1981) for either the 2003/2004 season, if not, the season after.
Damien Martyn (1971) - will be around for about 3 or 4 years, and will probably be taken over by Michael Clarke (1981) if he hasnt forced his way into the side, or Shane Watson (1981) if Clarke is already there.
Adam Gilchrist (1971) - will be around for another 4 or 5 years, before making way for Tasmanian Sean Clingleffeler (1980)
Shane Warne (1969) - will go around the same time as Steve Waugh (1 or 2 seasons left in him), and this will see Stuart MacGill (1971) take over for a while as Cameron White (1983) matures to take over from MacGill.
Brett Lee (1976) - same as Ponting
Jason Gillespie (1975) - as above
Glen McGrath (1970) - probably got another 5 years in him, however, fast bowling is stressful (althought McGraths action isnt), those next in line to take over from the great man are Stuart Clark (1975), Nathan Bracken (1977), Matt Inness (1978), Ashley Nofke (1977) or Shane Jurgensen (1976). And either on of them could wrestle a spot of Lee or Gillespie, depending on the form of both bowlers.
So my (possible) test team in five years time (2006-2007 season):
Matt Hayden (35 years old), Jimmy Maher (32) or Scott Meuleman (26)
Michael Hussey (31)
Simon Katich (32)
Michael Clarke (25)
Ricky Ponting (32) - captain
Shane Watson (25)
Sean Clingelfeller (26) or Adam Gilchrist (35)
Cameron White (23)
Brett Lee (30)
Jason Gillespie (31)
Glen McGrath (36) or Matt Inness (28)
Pretty Good team!!!!!
daddy_4_eyes
4 Jan 2002, 17:39
The twins should be pushed into retirement. They're too old and have lately not contributed to the team. Fair enough they are still probably world class cricketers, but as long as they are in the squad two younger and just as deserving cricketers are missing out on a spot. Take a look at Katich, he would easily slot into any other cricket team in the world, instead in Australia he has to look on from the sidelines.
Anyone notice the middle order collapses this summer? And who plays in the middle order? The waugh's!! If both were replaced by say Katich and Hussey then there would be more batting depth in the Aussie team. Right now, australia is in effect playing with 5 batsmen and starting every match 2 wickets down.
Originally posted by WCE2000
Steve Waugh is averaging in excess of 45 since the 99 World Cup, hardly the weakest of the batsmen in the One Day team. His usefuleness as a one day player is hardly dwindling, as his average has been constantly going up since the World Cup.
His average for 2000 was 41.21 (3rd best Australian behind Martyn and Bevan), and in 2001 it was 48.50 (5th best Australia and 13th best in the world).
How much has his average been boosted by dinky little knocks of 10-20 not out in the last 3 overs?
I'd say if any of the other batsmen consistently came in at that stage, they would have the same average and a better strike rate.
With that in mind, the effect on the batting strength of the team is minimal, but for a batsman who only faces a couple of overs per game, you might as well make it someone who can bowl as well.
GoEagles
4 Jan 2002, 18:21
I rate Mark Waugh as one of the best players we have in the one day side, so barring injury/match fixing he would be a selection for my world cup squad next year. Steve Waugh on the other hand is a bit iffy. If he struggles to get some good runs in the VB series, I would seriously look to have him replaced/trialled with another player who might be able to offer a little bit extra (bowling, sharper in the field)
Steve Waugh has proved himself many a time and i feel that he can still contribute fairly well to the Australian Team.
However, surely, if Mark Waugh wasnt Steves brother, he wouldve been dropped by now??
I think his place in the side has been saved a fair few times by his brother and maybe its time he "retired" gracefully and allowed another player the chance to play at the elite level
The thing is, theres more than enough quality players out there who can take his spot and do well
In his last 46 innings, Steve Waugh has been not out 12 times, and in 7 of those innings he had reached 40. So he only had 5 innings, where he has come in at the end and played a little cameo hitting role at the end.
NICK THE PIE MAN
5 Jan 2002, 18:01
We wouldn't even had made the Semi Final of the World Cup if it wasn't for him.
He has proved himself a number of times and throughly deserves to be in the side.
'Nuff said.
Originally posted by NICK THE PIE MAN
We wouldn't even had made the Semi Final of the World Cup if it wasn't for him.
He has proved himself a number of times and throughly deserves to be in the side.
'Nuff said.
Spot on. They both deserve to be in both the one day and test squads. As far as Steve goes, people are forgetting his captaincy, he is a tremendous leader and a great tactician. Mark is also the most gifted player in our squad. IMO, Steve still rates in the top three batsmen in the world. Australia are so good that we can afford the luxury of carrying both Waughs if their form slips. That goes for Ponting and a few others.
Kane McGoodwin
5 Jan 2002, 19:04
Mark deserves to me in the one-day squad based on his recent form. He & Gilchrist are a great opening combination. However, I reckon he should be dropped for tests, as his average / consistency is dropping. Time to move Martyn up the order & bring in new blood.
Steve's has been OK in both foms of the game over the last 12 months, but his latest Test from is a little worrying. Not sure if it is the injury (from England), but he would want to lift his game in the one-dayers & in South Africa series to be assured of his place for the World Cup.
Originally posted by NICK THE PIE MAN
We wouldn't even had made the Semi Final of the World Cup if it wasn't for him.
He has proved himself a number of times and throughly deserves to be in the side.
'Nuff said.
1999 form is irrelevant to 2002 and 2003 form. Wanna bring back Tom Moody too?
Originally posted by Darky
1999 form is irrelevant to 2002 and 2003 form. Wanna bring back Tom Moody too?
yea i agree that the form from back then alone is irrelevant, however, both the Waughs form has been getting better and better and there is no reason for them to be dropped from the one day game.
NICK THE PIE MAN
5 Jan 2002, 22:10
Darky,
by the end of the VB series, I can assure you that you will be eating your words.