View Full Version : Aussies best 12 in last 20 years
Mr. Blonde
4 Jan 2002, 12:36
Here's a question to get you thinking. In batting order, what do think is Australias best Test XII for the last 20 years. You can give reasons for their selections if you like. Mine is:
Mark Taylor
Justin Langer
David Boon
Mark Waugh
Steve Waugh
Allan Border
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Merv Hughes
Craig McDermott
Glen McGrath
12th man - Dean Jones
Some tough choices here were Langer, Gilchrist and Hughes. The rest pretty much pick themselves. I chose Langer because of our lack of quality openers. Geoff Marsh was a solid player but didn't have great figures. Michael Slater I believe is over-rated. Most of his scores seemed to come in 2nd innings when there is not as much pressure on. Plus Langer has something like 12 centuries now and averages around 45.
I chose Gilchrist ahead of Healy only for his batting. While I regard Healy as a technically better keeper, having a no.7 average over 50 with the bat is a great asset to have.
Merv Hughes was the toughest choice to make. He just got the nod over Gillespie, Lawson and Alderman. I believe he was a very under-rated bowler and deserves more credit than he gets.
My best 12 would be similar to yours, but as i am only 19, my memory doesn't span back 20 years. I am unsure however, of gilchrist being in the team over healy. You need to remember that gilchrist couln't get a game at the top level until healy retired. Gilly might be a better batsmen, but Healy did do quite well most of the time.
Mark Taylor
Geoff Marsh
David Boon
Ricky Ponting
Steve Waugh
Allan Border
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Terry Alderman
Craig McDermott
Glen McGrath
Apologies to Tim Zoehrer but Gilchrist is marginally better
Mark Taylor (c)
Justin Langer
David Boon
Dean Jones
Steve Waugh
Allan Border (vc)
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Jason Gillespie
Glenn McGrath
Bruce Reid
12 - Terry Alderman
Langer as Tubby's opening partner, ahead of Hayden (not many Tests due to limited opportunity), Marsh (crap) and Slater (more arse than class, very lucky arsey batsman).
Boon was as solid as anyone at 3, and only Langer has had any success at all since Boon retired. Those two are easily interchangeable, I guess.
Jones at 4. The only real competition comes from Mark Waugh, but I couldn't pick a bloke who barely averages over 40, especially considering the world's quality bowling stocks in the 1990s as opposed to the 1980s when Jones played the bulk of his Tests. Despite Mark Waugh being in Australia's top 5 run-scorers ever, it's been by virtue of 120+ Tests, not through an accumulation of big scores - his highest Test score in those 120+ Tests is still only 153.
Allan Border and Steve Waugh have played 300 Tests between them and scored close to 20,000 runs, both averaging over 50 for many years. Both have served as captains for several years, and their records mean they pick themselves.
Gilchrist just ahead of Healy. While Gilchrist may not be a technically better keeper, let's not forget that Healy was pretty ordinary when he started too... being Queensland's second or third choice keeper who miraculously made the Test team after only a handful of state games. While Healy was considered one of the best batsmen of recent wicket keepers with an average in the mid-high 20s, Gilchrist has maintained roughly twice that average since his career started. He shows no signs of slowing down either. He is obviously also highly regarded as a leader, thinker and a team player, being rewarded with the vice-captaincy after (only a dozen or so Test matches.
Bowlers were probably hardest to pick.
Shane Warne picks himself, as does Glenn McGrath. Most Aussie teams of the last 20 years have featured three quicks and a spinner, so the other two spots go to quickies.
I believe Jason Gillespie is probably a better bowler than Glenn McGrath, but injury has reduced his career thus far. He is yet to experience any really lean patches in his career, now spanning about 30 Tests. Also bowls quicker than any other recent paceman, bar Brett Lee. Will be a 400 wicket bowler, fitness permitting.
Hughes and McDermott had similar records (roughly 4 wickets per Test, and averaging about 28). They also bowled in the same era, often opening the attack together or Hughes bowling first change. Both were quick, and used their height to get good bounce, and both swung the ball well. Their average wasn't the sole consideration, as a lot of their bowling was against the might of the West Indies... against whom anyone's average would take a bit of a battering. One of their contemporaries who usually slips under people's guard, is Bruce Reid. Averaged under 25, and was usually an automatic inclusion when fitness (and match fitness) allowed it. His height gave him plenty of bounce off the pitch, and steep bounce at that. Bowled very few bad balls, and was always economical. The fact that he was a left arm bowler gave him an extra advantage for national selection (and for the balance of my XI), as there have been few decent left armers in recent history. Would have been regarded as a great Australian bowler had he been able to get onto the paddock more often, but still manages to hold his spot here in a quality field.
Mark Taylor
Justin Langer
David Boon
Mark Waugh
Steve Waugh
Allan Border
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Bruce Reid
Craig McDermott
Glenn McGrath
Boon, McGrath, Warne, both Waugh's, Border & Taylor pick themselves. The rest is debatable.
Kane McGoodwin
5 Jan 2002, 17:18
Team:
Mark Taylor v/c (7,525 runs @ 43.5)
Justin Langer (3,364 @ 44.9)
David Boon (7,422 @ 43.7)
Dean Jones (3,621 @ 46.6)
Allan Border (11,174 @ 50.6)
Steve Waugh c (9,505 @ 50.8)
Adam Gilchrist (1,687 @ 51.1, 118 dismissals)
Shane Warne (430 wickets @ 26.7)
Jason Gillespie (115 wickets @ 25.4)
Glenn McGrath (377 @ 22.0)
Bruce Reid (113 @ 24.6)
Other Batting:
R Ponting (3,196 runs @ 43.8)
M Waugh (7,780 @ 42.5)
M Slater (5,312 @ 42.8)
I Healy (4,356 @ 27.4, 395 dismissals)
Other Bowling:
P Reiffel (104 @ 27.0)
T Alderman (170 @ 27.2)
M Hughes (212 @ 28.4)
C McDemott (291 @ 28.6)
Comments:
1. Sorry Darky, I only just realised I have picked the same team as you. You must be a good judge!
2. Glenn McGrath would be happy batting @ no. 10 with Bruce Reid in the side.
3. Picked Boon ahead of Ponting @ 3, because Ponting's average is worse when batting in this position (ie. he has a higher average batting @ 6).
4. Healy is the better wicket-keeper, but his keeping ability over Gilly is not worth their 24 run average differential.
Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
3. Picked Boon ahead of Ponting @ 3, because Ponting's average is worse when batting in this position (ie. he has a higher average batting @ 6).
No offence to Ponting as he is a great batsmen and his career is far from over but Boon is a no brainer at the 3. David Boon is one of Australia's all time great batsmen.
The Doctor
6 Jan 2002, 07:02
if you're going back 20 years then that brings, Lillie, Chappell and Marsh into the picture. So my team is
Boon
Taylor
Border
Chappell
Waugh
Waugh
Gichrist
Warne
Lillie
Alderman
McGrath
12th Reid or Gillespie
Who to appoint as captain? I'll take Mark Taylor.
SeinDude
11 Jan 2002, 11:33
My team is this:
1. Mark Taylor
2. David Boon
3. Dean Jones
4. Mark Waugh
5. Allan Border (captain)
6. Steve Waugh
7. Adam Gilchrist (wicketkeeper)
8. Shane Warne
9. Dennis Lillie
10. Craig McDermott
11. Glenn McGrath
12th Man: Jeff Thompson
SeinDude
Fat Red
11 Jan 2002, 12:18
I think the spirit of the thread is not to include players who were on the way out by 1982 or 3.
On that basis,
Taylor (c)
Boon
Jones
Border
S Waugh (vc)
Gilchrist
Warne
McDermott
McGrath
Reid
12th: J Gillespie
Pies rock
11 Jan 2002, 12:32
Taylor
Slater
Boon
M.Waugh
S.Waugh
Border
Gilchrist
Warne
Hughes
McDermott
McGrath
12th man - Jones
A lot of people have Langer, which I question. Slater was better for longer in the opening position. This summer is obviously very fresh in a lot of people's minds. I rate Hayden ahead of Langer but that's another story. Embarrassment of riches, no one really from the early 80's which is interesting...
Fat Red
11 Jan 2002, 13:07
Here's an English team for them to play against
Gooch
Atherton
Gatting
Gower
Hussain
Stewart
Botham
Russell
Emburey
Gough
Willis
I hope I've forgotten a better bowler than John Emburey but I'm struggling. The batting's quite competitive though.
Fat Red
11 Jan 2002, 13:08
Here's some real competition
Greenidge
Haynes
Lara
Richards
Richardson
Lloyd
Dujon
Marshall
Holding
Ambrose
Garner
12th: Roger Harper (who else!)
Cyclops
11 Jan 2002, 13:25
Thats a 4-1 series win to the Windies I'd say. You've got 7 of their all-time team there (Hall Sobers Headley and was it Worrell? missing).
Only S Waugh of the current lot would get a sniff in the all time Aussie squad, if you're leaving Lillee out.
Fat Red
11 Jan 2002, 13:32
Maybe, but the all time Aussie squad would whip the Windies.
Morris
Ponsford
Bradman
Chappell G
Waugh S
Miller
Gilchrist
Lindwall
O'Reilly
Warne
Lillee
Fall Out Boy
11 Jan 2002, 14:14
Hello??????
Ian Healy is one of the greatest keepers to ever play cricket.
Even taking into account Gilly's batting Ian is still far superior.
Either everyone is still a teenager or you have short memories.
Cheers
Fat Red
11 Jan 2002, 14:21
Healy was a great keeper. When he retired he would have been in my best ever Test team (Tallon. Pfft.) But Gilchrist does the job and the 20 runs of average can't be ignored.
SeinDude
11 Jan 2002, 20:04
Fat Red,
I agree with you about Adam Gilchrist. His batting has often turned test matches Australia's way and I haven't seen him make any huge mistakes behind the stumps.
SeinDude
Originally posted by Fat Red
Here's some real competition
Greenidge
Haynes
Lara
Richards
Richardson
Lloyd
Dujon
Marshall
Holding
Ambrose
Garner
12th: Roger Harper (who else!)
Well the Windies are easily the strongest team of all time if there lineup omits the leading wicket taker of all time in tests.....
Courtney Walsh anyone?
Originally posted by Fat Red
Here's an English team for them to play against
Gooch
Atherton
Gatting
Gower
Hussain
Stewart
Botham
Russell
Emburey
Gough
Willis
I hope I've forgotten a better bowler than John Emburey but I'm struggling. The batting's quite competitive though.
Well I wouldn't put Russell in, I'd give the gloves to Stewart & I'd either put in another bowler maybe Fraser or even Malcolm if it was a quick pitch like the WACA.Or maybe even Phil Edmonds if it was at say Sydney & we needed 2 spinners.
If I wanted another batsman then I'd go for Lamb,Thorpe or possibly Robin Smith.Maybe any of those would be a better bet than Hussain anyway.
It's funny but I think of some of those England batsman as really good players but I bet if you checked out their averages then most of them would average less than some of the Australian batsman of the last 20 years who aren't held in that high regard.
From memory Gooch & Gower averaged about 44 & the rest would probably have struggled to push it past 40.
Goldenblue
13 Jan 2002, 06:47
Langer
Hayden
Boon
Jones
Border (C)
S.Waugh (VC)
Gilchrist
Warne
Hughes
Lillie
Alderman
12th man: B. Reid
Fat Red
17 Jan 2002, 08:49
Originally posted by DIPPER
Well I wouldn't put Russell in, I'd give the gloves to Stewart & I'd either put in another bowler maybe Fraser or even Malcolm if it was a quick pitch like the WACA.Or maybe even Phil Edmonds if it was at say Sydney & we needed 2 spinners.
If I wanted another batsman then I'd go for Lamb,Thorpe or possibly Robin Smith.Maybe any of those would be a better bet than Hussain anyway.
It's funny but I think of some of those England batsman as really good players but I bet if you checked out their averages then most of them would average less than some of the Australian batsman of the last 20 years who aren't held in that high regard.
From memory Gooch & Gower averaged about 44 & the rest would probably have struggled to push it past 40.
yeah, dipper, I didn't look at the averages but I know that Gatting for example is below 40. Fair call on the last bastsman too, I considered all those you named, it was a bit of a raflle really.
Quite honestly, it's an average team. I'd like to see the stats back to back with the Australian or Windies version.
falcon54
17 Jan 2002, 10:10
Taylor
Hayden
Boon
M. Waugh
S. Waugh
Border
Healy
Warne
Gillespie
Mcdermott
McGrath
12th Man: P Reiffel
Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Hello??????
Ian Healy is one of the greatest keepers to ever play cricket.
Even taking into account Gilly's batting Ian is still far superior.
Either everyone is still a teenager or you have short memories.
Cheers
I agree absolutely!!!!!!!
I was looking through all these teams ... and NOT ONE had picked the great Ian Healy in their side. :mad:
When Warney was at his peak and spinning the ball like no one had ever seen and was at the peak of his powers, it was Ian Healy that kept the wicket and seldom dropped snicks or thumbled.
I think you are right ... the boards are full of teenagers or those with short memories. When it came to wicketkeeping, Healy was the master!!! Yes ... even when you do take it to account Gilly's batting ... Healy's phenomenal wicketkeeping is way ahead.
At least someone picked this up before i let fly with a rant of my own!!
My 12 are:
Mark Taylor
Graeme Wood
David Boon
Allan Border (c)
Steve Waugh (vc)
Justin Langer
Ian Healy
Craig McDermott
Rodney Hogg
Stuart MacGill
Glenn McGrath
12th Man: Mark Waugh
Fat Red
17 Jan 2002, 10:38
Originally posted by topdon
I agree absolutely!!!!!!!
I was looking through all these teams ... and NOT ONE had picked the great Ian Healy in their side. :mad:
When Warney was at his peak and spinning the ball like no one had ever seen and was at the peak of his powers, it was Ian Healy that kept the wicket and seldom dropped snicks or thumbled.
I think you are right ... the boards are full of teenagers or those with short memories. When it came to wicketkeeping, Healy was the master!!! Yes ... even when you do take it to account Gilly's batting ... Healy's phenomenal wicketkeeping is way ahead.
At least someone picked this up before i let fly with a rant of my own!!
Adrian, I'm older than you, and I do remember what a good keeper Healy was. Yes, much better than Gilchrist.
But not 20 runs an innings better. I reckon the difference would be 1 bye an innings and 1 wicket every 3 tests.
Fat Red,
Me = Queenslander
Healy = Queenslander
Conclusion = Biased
:D:D
Jars458
17 Jan 2002, 12:21
Originally posted by topdon
I agree absolutely!!!!!!!
I was looking through all these teams ... and NOT ONE had picked the great Ian Healy in their side. :mad:
When Warney was at his peak and spinning the ball like no one had ever seen and was at the peak of his powers, it was Ian Healy that kept the wicket and seldom dropped snicks or thumbled.
I think you are right ... the boards are full of teenagers or those with short memories. When it came to wicketkeeping, Healy was the master!!! Yes ... even when you do take it to account Gilly's batting ... Healy's phenomenal wicketkeeping is way ahead.
At least someone picked this up before i let fly with a rant of my own!!
Healey cost us two test series with his keeping
one in Parkistan (missed stumping and one in West Indies dropped Lara)
Gilchrist's keeping is close enought to healy's for him to win on a batting average which is twice as high as Healy's
Perhaps play them both!!:D
The Doctor
17 Jan 2002, 15:30
1. Tom Moody
2. Wayne Phillips
3. Dirk Wellham
4. Greg Ritchie
5. Sean Young
6. Brendan Julian
7. Phil Emery
8. Brad Hogg
9. Peter McIntyre
10. Jo Angel (c)
11. Scott Muller
12th Simon Cook