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Kildonan
20 May 2006, 15:10
Saints give Thomas big tick (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19192884-2722,00.html)
The Australian
Chip Le Grand
May 20, 2006

IF Grant Thomas sounds paranoid, it is only because everyone is out to get him.
When St Kilda wins, it is because the Saints are the most talented team. When it loses, it is because Thomas is a tactical troglodyte. It isn't fair but it has ever been thus. Little wonder then, that Thomas this week politely declined interview requests.

The St Kilda board is standing by its coach, who is contracted until the end of next season. "I am in no doubt that Grant is the right man to take us forward, as he has done in the past," president Rod Butterss said.

But after nearly five seasons spent swimming upstream, Thomas and his Saints have reached difficult waters.

As always, injuries tell part of the story. Neither Aaron Hamill nor Justin Koschitzke will play for the next two months and the Clarke brothers, Xavier and Raphael, have shown a disposition towards soft-tissue injuries.

"Anyone who said to me that Grant had an over-abundance of talent, I would suggest they look in the grandstand and they will see that over-abundance of talent sitting there," Butterss said.

Beyond this familiar tale of torn muscles and fractured bones, however, St Kilda can no longer ignore broader questions about Thomas's coaching.

He is the only coach who refuses to flood and one of the few who does not share Mick Malthouse's belief in a premiership clock. He believes football has not changed dramatically since Brisbane was the best team in the land and that the best way to win is still to move the ball fast and long to high-marking forwards.

In a new era of possession and tempo control, St Kilda is perhaps the last true believer of power football.

The evolution and direction of the game is an evocative debate and traditionalists will hope Thomas is right. When the St Kilda midfield is on its game and Fraser Gehrig, Koschitzke and Nick Riewoldt are ruling the skies, there are few greater spectacles in football.

But what if the Brisbane model is out of date and Thomas, like so many generals, has prepared for the last war? Is the St Kilda game plan already redundant in a fast changing game?

Nathan Burke, a 300-game player for St Kilda and an assistant coach to Thomas for two seasons, explained the fundamentals of the Thomas approach.

"He doesn't believe flooding can be effective in finals," Burke said. "You will very rarely, if ever, see the Saints flood. There is no direction for the onballers to play behind the ball. It is get the ball, move it accurately and quickly to key forwards capable of taking a mark on a lead or a pack mark or bringing the ball to ground.

"It is not the total Brisbane plan; Brisbane probably kicked the ball longer than the Saints do ... I don't think the Saints have had that consistency of key forwards yet. But with a full list of forwards, they will back themselves to win the ball on the ground.

"I am pretty sure Grant's way of thinking would be it is too early to say the Sydney way of going about things is the new face of football and everyone has to adopt that."

In the precision versus power debate, Burke sides with his old coach. "I personally believe that the way the Saints play, given the right circumstances and a full list, they will beat Sydney easily," he said.

"Once that side clicks into gear and gets things going, it is going to take a real good side to stop them. I can't see them coming up against anyone in September they can't beat."

This is also the view of Butterss and the board. "I am very cautious about issues like tactics and game plans," Butterss said.

"Probably the three most successful fellows in terms of the development of tactics and game plan over the last 20 years have been (Kevin) Sheedy, (Leigh) Matthews and (Denis) Pagan.

"It is just 10 days ago that Grant coached against the Western Bulldogs. They were the form side and the crack team and we were able to dismantle that. Everyone raves about Neil Craig's tactical approach but when it mattered under the pressure of finals football last year, we were successful against Adelaide."

Thomas has shown himself to be an effective motivator, a good list manager and, by any reasonable measure, his win-loss record over the pat two years is exceptional. At 3-4 this season, a win against Carlton tomorrow will equal St Kilda's start to 2005. On these numbers, the club is hardly in crisis. But there is one glaring flaw in Butterss' argument.

Sheedy, Pagan and Matthews are all premiership coaches but this year they are coaching three of the worst performed teams in the league. All three can reasonably claim to be victims of the football cycle. But it can never be known whether Brisbane's 2002 team would win a premiership in today's AFL playing the same game as they did four years ago.

The Lions once were kings of power football but even Matthews has conceded games are no longer won that way.

St Kilda kicked more goals than any other team last year. It took the most marks inside 50m and was the most efficient at turning forward moves into goals. It is now an average side by these measures.

The Saints are winning less of the ball than their opponents and have a scoring efficiency below Essendon and Carlton. They are beaten every week in the ruck and have slipped from being one of the competition's best clearance teams to 13th overall. Is it because they are not playing well, or playing the wrong game?

According to Butterss, any talk of a window of opportunity closing around the Saints is bunk. Where other clubs watch the clock, Butterss talks about a funnel; an application of a sales and marketing theory in which raw recruits are "processed" into elite players over three or four years.

"That is an [ad] infinitum approach," Butterss said. "If you get your clock wrong and you miss it, you are dead. We take a long-term approach and have faith in taking later picks and grow them into elite performers."

That's the theory. In practice, the clock is very much ticking on Thomas. That much in football has not changed.

Kildonan
6 Jul 2006, 00:46
Check out these stats re: Grant Thomas (http://afl.allthestats.com/coaches/coach.php?id=310)

St DAC
6 Jul 2006, 16:55
Our record against Port sucks ... it'd be nice to start to redress that when we next play them. :mad:

Kildonan
9 Jul 2006, 20:52
Nice to see Grant Thomas completely outcoach Mick Malthouse again.
This brings their record 4 - 3 in favour of Thomas (the three losses being 2002 and 2003 when St Kilda were rebuilding).

bluejay
9 Jul 2006, 22:58
I was listening to the MMM radio feed online and they weren't giving Thomas that much credit. They basically said he just copied the game plan the Richmond Tigers used last round against the Pies and it worked. This adds to the way the media treats him, I guess.

Kildonan
9 Jul 2006, 23:39
Credit where credit is due. He coached far more effectively than the more renowned Mick Malthouse (whose reputation is based on coaching two premierships with what was essentially a state of origin squad at West Coast)

Thomas has been poorly treated in the media (which is insulting) but it allows him to be underestimated and this may have worked in our favour on occasion. (Although in actuality, most of the opposition coaches would be quite unlikely to underestimate Thomas and his panel of assistants)

Kildonan
16 Jul 2006, 12:39
Thomas passes Alves (http://saints.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=281060)
14 July 2006
Sportal for afl.com.au

St Kilda coach Grant Thomas will become the club's second longest-serving coach at the MCG on Saturday when the Saints clash with Essendon.

Thomas will coach his 115th senior game for the club, taking him past Stan Alves and leaving him trailing only the legendary Allan Jeans, who coached the club for 332 games between 1961 and 1976, including the 1966 premiership win.

Saints president Rod Butterss praised Thomas for his efforts, since taking over from Malcolm Blight midway through 2001.

"'Thomo' is a natural leader who is extremely passionate about the St Kilda Football Club and the sustained success we will achieve at the club. We are never afraid to push boundaries at the Club and 'Thomo' is always open to fresh ideas that can take the playing group and the St Kilda Football Club towards our common goal.

"As far as the St Kilda Football Club is concerned, Grant’s record speaks for itself, his win-loss record, his ability to keep the list together and his leadership skills are without question. This milestone is of no surprise to the board with 'Thomo' equalling Stan Alves’ record as the Saints second longest serving coach," he said.

Kildonan
16 Jul 2006, 13:06
GT has a positive winning record against:

# Against G W L D Win% First Last
1 Alistair Clarkson 2 2 0 0 100.00 2005 2006
2 Denis Pagan 6 5 1 0 83.33 2002 2006
3 Danny Frawley 5 4 1 0 80.00 2002 2004
4 Peter Schwab 4 3 1 0 75.00 2001 2004
5 Dean Laidley 7 5 2 0 71.43 2003 2006
6 Wayne Brittain 3 2 1 0 66.67 2001 2002
7 Peter Rohde 3 2 1 0 66.67 2003 2004
8 Rodney Eade 4 2 1 1 62.50 2001 2006
9 Terry Wallace 5 3 2 0 60.00 2001 2006
10 Mick Malthouse 7 4 3 0 57.14 2002 2006


GT has a equal record with:
# Against G W L D Win% First Last
11 Chris Connolly 8 4 4 0 50.00 2002 2006
12 Leigh Matthews 8 4 4 0 50.00 2002 2006
13 Kevin Sheedy 6 3 3 0 50.00 2002 2006
14 John Worsfold 6 3 3 0 50.00 2002 2006
15 Gary Ayres 4 2 2 0 50.00 2002 2004
16 Neil Craig 4 2 2 0 50.00 2004 2006


GT has a losing record against:
# Against G W L D Win% First Last
17 Paul Roos 7 3 4 0 42.86 2002 2006
18 Mark Thompson 10 3 7 0 30.00 2001 2006
19 Neale Daniher 7 2 5 0 28.57 2002 2006
20 Mark Williams 8 0 8 0 0.00 2001 2006

Maysie
16 Jul 2006, 13:31
I was listening to the MMM radio feed online and they weren't giving Thomas that much credit. They basically said he just copied the game plan the Richmond Tigers used last round against the Pies and it worked. This adds to the way the media treats him, I guess.

thats becuase MMM is full of... *******ds anyways

cheers for the links and stats StKildonan.

if grant was such a bad coach then st kilda wouldnt keep him... as simple as that. personally. I think he's a great coach.

plus he's won more than he's lost :P

Kildonan
20 Jul 2006, 00:25
Five years on, Thomas proves his staying power (http://www.sportsaustralia.com/articles/jul06/artid6066.html)
Sebastian Hassett (http://www.sportsaustralia.com/articles/profiles/sebastian_hassett.html)
Sports Australia
Wednesday July 19, 2006

For all the doubts about Grant Thomas's ability, the St Kilda coach has showed tremendous resilliance to turn around a struggling club and survive five years at the helm. Sebastian Hassett reports.

When news of Malcolm Blight's sacking on July 19, 2001 leaked into the football world, it seemed St Kilda - so traditionally adept at falling into a hole of its own making - had willingly strolled into an abyss.

Had it really been just 10 months since Blight's appointment as senior coach was greeted with such universal enthusiasm, leading to him being dubbed the messiah who would rescue the lost Saints?

Little about the club's decision to abruptly terminate his contract made any sense, and the subsequent explanation that Blight lacked commitment seemed unimaginable at the time.

But perhaps most interesting of all was his replacement.

The man who many accused of knifing Blight, football director Grant Thomas, was temporarily and later permanently handed the reins as senior coach.

That's now five years ago. Thomas inherited a team which had won just eight matches of its past 52 matches.

Yet for a man whose coaching ability is commonly derided, his record since taking over from Blight sits at 58 wins from 115 games - better than 50 per cent.

There are several factors contributing to why Thomas, the club's second longest serving coach, is marked so harshly by his many detractors.

His role in usurping the popular Blight has never been made publicly clear, and a suspiciously smooth transition from caretaker coach to club tsar made him all the more conflicting to the establishment.

Compounding the friction was that Thomas shelved traditional notions in favour of his own, untested methods.

Rotating captains, self-elected leadership groups, empowerment philosophies, foreign camps, pinch-hitting ruckmen and the much-maligned training services all quickly became part of the Thomas brand.

He even sacked former premiership ruckman Matthew Capuano midway through 2003 because of a "policy of zero tolerance to mediocrity".

But while Blight was admired and revered for his eccentricity - largely because of his daring exploits as a player - Thomas, a dour defender with limited foot skills, was doubted with unrelenting ferocity.

The corporate language acquired from his days as state manager with insurance company MLC did little for his popularity - who else would correct a club's focus from goals and points toward outcomes and processes?

When the team lost all but one game in 2001 during Thomas's caretaker period, and then four out of its first eight in 2002 by over 80 points, some serious PR spin was needed.

Yet when the Saints started to come good the next year, the lingo stayed, and soon almost every other coach cottoned on; key performance indicators and selfless acts are terms now heard across the footballing landscape.

Thomas doesn't have the same coaching pedigree of the modern day tacticians. He was not groomed as an assistant, and even his apprenticeship - four premierships as coach of country powerhouse Warrnambool - pigeonholed him as a bush battler.

Some five years on, arguments about whether Thomas has made the grade continue to rage.

His followers say he has galvanised and reinvigorated a broken club, while his detractors say any good results are due to high draft picks, and bad results a direct consequence of coaching inadequacies.

And, as has been said many times before, only a premiership will see Thomas viewed through less judgemental eyes.

However, in the immediate future, there's a footnote Thomas needs to address: overcoming Port Adelaide, a feat he's never managed in eight attempts.

A win on Sunday against the Power - putting the Saints firmly in the hunt for a top four spot - would certainly make for a happy anniversary.

bluejay
20 Jul 2006, 23:27
That's a very interesting article, thanks StKildonan.